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Apple, AT&T Sued Over iPhone 4 Antennas

bannable writes "Apple has been accused of violation of the Federal Communications Act, three counts of products liability related to negligence, defect in design and breach of implied warranty, intentional and negligent misrepresentation, fraud by concealment, unfair business practices and more. 'The iPhone 4 manifests design and manufacturing defects that were known to Defendants before it was released which were not disclosed to consumers, namely, a connection problem caused by the iPhone 4's antenna configuration that makes it difficult or impossible to maintain a connection to AT&T's network,' the California complaint reads."

42 of 435 comments (clear)

  1. Not surprisingly by jgagnon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will have no affect on Apple's sales.

    --
    Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    1. Re:Not surprisingly by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 3, Funny

      Blaming the lack of a physical keyboard would've made +5 Informative a certainty.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    2. Re:Not surprisingly by delinear · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, it might be this guy.

    3. Re:Not surprisingly by ae1294 · · Score: 3, Funny

      We don't stock apples...

  2. Before everyone cheers (or jeers) by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A lot of times (I suspect most of the time) these sorts of class-action lawsuits are instigated by not just the usual suspects (greedy lawyers), but also with the support of the companies themselves. The lawyers get a big payday. The company gets shielded from any further individual lawsuits. And the consumers get stripped of their right to sue individually, for the "settlement" of a "5% off your next purchase" coupon.

    In other words, when you hear "class-action lawsuit," don't think "Yeah, we're sticking it to the big guys!" Think "No, they're sticking it to *YOU*."

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers) by Pojut · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Just don't file the lawsuit that way." -Steve Jobs, paraphrased

    2. Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just don't take these posts that way.

    3. Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers) by jgagnon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In a better world, that should be "Apple will not be shielded from further suits in which the plaintif failed to opt in to the class action."

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    4. Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers) by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, so all the plaintiffs who happen to read the "You can opt-out" notice on page 32C of the New York Times classified section, then send a letter and file notarized copies of forms 339-A and 22-4D to the court--yes, all 3 of those people will still have a right to sue.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers) by mea37 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're going to turn someone's phrasing back on them, try reading carefully enough to know what they said; or are you too stupid to know the difference between "indignant" and "ignorant"?

      In any event, feel free to point out a class action where the only notice was buried in the NY Times classifieds. Or were you just full of crap? That the law doesn't prescribe mail as the only means of notice, does not change the fact that classes are notified by mail.

  3. Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry, Steve, "You're holding it wrong" just doesn't cut it.

    If your user's can't actually hold your phone, it's your problem, not theirs.

    1. Re:Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Please. You ARE obviously holding it wrong.
      It's easy enough to hold it correctly, as Master Yoda can teach you:

    2. Re:Good riddance by Anonymusing · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For what it's worth, the Nexus One had similar problems... where's the lawsuit?

      --
      Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
    3. Re:Good riddance by hedwards · · Score: 3, Funny

      Google lets us have porn on our handsets, so we look the other way. Because Google is cool like that unlike that prude Steve Jobs that suggests that we shouldn't be watching hardcore pornography on the bus.

    4. Re:Good riddance by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I expect the signal to vary when I touch the phone - that's a given. I remember when doing amateur radio as a child there was a calculated (and sometimes very noticeable) gain loss when a handheld radio came in close proximity with the human body - and most of these radios had really really efficient antennas compared to most cell phones.

      I think with the iPhone 4 - the issue is if you have particularly sweaty hands (which I do) they can short the two antennas and increase the swr so much it effectively knocks the signal out *completely*. When putting the piece of tape over the gap solves the issue I think its more of a design flaw than common problem. I had a rubber antenna for some handheld radio that had a short in it once - you couldn't hear hardly anything unless the transmitter was right on top of you.

      In the link you have there - the Nexus 1 owner/author admits that the signal doesn't go completely away - it still lets you make a phone call.

      My Rev 2 Nexus 1 (the one made for AT&T/Telus) this issue occurs, but in most cases its not a big deal (maybe 10-20 db - if that). I had the same issue on my Nokia N97 too.

    5. Re:Good riddance by DRJlaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For what it's worth, the Nexus One had similar problems... where's the lawsuit?

      You merely assume that the problems are similar. Upon what are you basing the assumption?

      Could you 'short' the antenna in the Nexus One merely by holding a phone in the 'wrong' way? No.
      Did the Nexus One signal drop by 24 dBm when you held it in your hand? No.
      Is the reception quantifyably worse than either the Nexus One or the previous generation iPhone? Yes.

      A 10dBm drop compared to the iPhone 3GS is unacceptable when the primary function of the device is to serve as a wireless phone.

      The lawyers suing Apple are not going to let it confuse the issue between absorptive signal loss due to coupling with a nearby hand, which indeed most phones are suspectible to, and antenna detuning due to galvanic conduction over an uncoated external antenna, which is a design decision worthy of a Gumby.

    6. Re:Good riddance by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A 10dBm drop compared to the iPhone 3GS is unacceptable when the primary function of the device is to serve as a wireless phone.

      Is it? I thought the primary purpose was to serve as a status symbol, the secondary purpose was to buy overpriced apps, the tertiary purpose was to browse the web. Being a wireless phone is way down the list.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Good riddance by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 4, Funny

      > Google lets us have porn on our handsets, so we look the other way.

      That's not how you do porn. Or at least, that's not how I do porn.

      --
      2*3*3*3*3*11*251
    8. Re:Good riddance by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it is a technical failing.
      the Antenna design is BAD. The person responsible should be ashamed of themselves. This may not be the Antennae engineer. He may have been forced to do that design based on some management decision.

      Have you ever designed antennas?

      "This is validated by scientific signal measurement. "

      Care to link to link to said study. Be careful, if it isn't a good scientific study, I will rip you a new one.

      Of course you have a fallacy that being better is all that matters. I can build and advertise a car that gets 100 MPG, but if it drops to 80MPG when driven by left handed people, I will be sued. It dosn't matter then t gets better gas MPG then my previous vehicle.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  4. Just Return It by CowboyBob500 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FFS, if I bought a phone and it didn't work I'd just take the thing back to the shop and get a refund. That way I get my money back so I can buy a different phone as a replacement. With a class-action lawsuit they'll get $5 worth of iTunes vouchers and still have a phone that doesn't work. What planet are these people on?

    1. Re:Just Return It by nanoakron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're absolutely right.

      And the best thing is...this phone's only been out a week. 1 whole week.

      And there's already hysterical screaming from the rooftops and people running to lawyers because they see Apple as a potential cash cow, rather than returning a defective product and being done with it. No, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

      Not to mention the largest of these suits only names 11 plaintiffs. 11.

      I've got an iPhone 4 myself, as do two of my friends and none of us are able to reproduce this reception issue.

      I know the plural of anecdote isn't data but we're already nearly a quarter the way to the number of plaintiffs in this suit.

    2. Re:Just Return It by barzok · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The idea behind the lawsuit is to remind Apple that marketing poorly designed or tested products is not acceptable. I think.

      A higher-than-normal return rate, with the antenna issue being the stated reason, should achieve similar results. In theory.

    3. Re:Just Return It by DWMorse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not exactly about the phone. Yes, you CAN return the phone, but it's too late at that point - now you're in a 2-year AT&T contract, that you then have to pay $375 to get out of. All thanks to your phone, sold to you by Apple, not working as advertised.

      So then you have a choice, do you eat the $199 or $299, and the cost to get a different phone, to hold up your contractual obligation? Or do you start lighting a fire under Apple's ass to fix the phone so you can get the phone and service you paid for? AT&T blames Apple, Apple blames the consumer, so the consumer is going to have to sue to get things righted.

      --
      There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
    4. Re:Just Return It by PPalmgren · · Score: 5, Informative

      Anandtech just popped out a fantastic writeup on this issue in their iPhone 4 review. Check it out, its very informative for those who don't have basic antenna design knowledge from EE in college. To paraphrase, it reduces signal by up to 27 dbm, which is almost 50% of normal signal range. (50 to 113 dbm). This will not effect you or show on your bars if you get a better signal than ~75 dbm on a normal basis.

      Pretty much anyone who has had an introductory course in EE should have forseen this after the keynote...including their employees. It is a case of gross engineering negligence. Yes, interference does happen with all phones, but the effect is much more pronounced with the iPhone 4 due to an exposed antenna and lack of spending to fix / spot the issue.

      In short, your anecdote doesn't address the problem because you are in a good coverage area, and the signal degredation doesn't ruin your reception.

    5. Re:Just Return It by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 3, Informative

      Anandtech just popped out a fantastic writeup on this issue in their iPhone 4 review. Check it out, its very informative for those who don't have basic antenna design knowledge from EE in college. To paraphrase, it reduces signal by up to 27 dbm, which is almost 50% of normal signal range. (50 to 113 dbm). This will not effect you or show on your bars if you get a better signal than ~75 dbm on a normal basis.

      Pretty much anyone who has had an introductory course in EE should have forseen this after the keynote...including their employees. It is a case of gross engineering negligence. Yes, interference does happen with all phones, but the effect is much more pronounced with the iPhone 4 due to an exposed antenna and lack of spending to fix / spot the issue.

      In short, your anecdote doesn't address the problem because you are in a good coverage area, and the signal degredation doesn't ruin your reception.

      Showing again why Anand runs the best tech site on the internet. Mod the parent up and everyone go read http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 before posting saying that the antenna problem makes the phone unusable or posting that is has no effect.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    6. Re:Just Return It by mikael_j · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ah yes, I found the Anandtech writeup pretty funny, at least the following part:

      Cupping tightly - This is the absolute worst case and involves squeezing the phone very tightly, like people are doing online in videos demonstrating all the bars going away. I squeeze the phone hard and make sure my palms are sweaty as well. You'd never hold the phone this way because it's physically painful.

      I have no doubt this is a real problem but it definitely seems to be affected by the usual "let's piss all over Apple" thing that always happens when a fault with one of Apple's products has been discovered...

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
  5. Class Action Lawsuit by Little+Brother · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm already seeing all the BS going on about how a class-action lawsuit only helps the lawyers at the expense of the plaintiffs. I do not know if this is usually the case or not, but the only Class-Action lawsuit I have ever been a part of, (interestingly against apple) resulted in a solution that I found quite suitable for the offense.

    I didn't get a dime, but I didn't want one. I wanted the system I paid for to work. I got a box in the mail with express shipping paid for me to ship my laptop back to Apple. Apple replaced my defective motherboard, and shipped my computer back. All at no charge to me. I did not even pay shipping either direction.

    I bought a product that didn't work as it should. I signed up on the Class-Action, I got a product that worked as it should.

    BUT LAWYERS ARE TEH EVILZ! CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS ARE ABOUT LINING TEH LAWYERZ POCKETS NOT GETTING ANYTHING TO THE PLAINTIFF!

    --

    Little Brother, watching the watchers

    1. Re:Class Action Lawsuit by eagee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ummm so the result of the class-action lawsuit is that Apple had to do a standard warranty repair? I mean, wait a minute - are you a lawyer?

  6. Obligatory Apple Product Cycle post by Itchyeyes · · Score: 5, Funny

    I believe this put's us right about here:

    A minor, rarely occurring flaw in the device begins to be discussed in the Apple support forums. Whiny, artistic types post lengthy diatribes about how this terrible design flaw has made the device unusable and scarred them emotionally. Electronic petitions are created demanding that Apple replace the devices for free, plus pay for counseling to help traumatized users overcome their emotional distress.

    In the Apple Product Cycle

    1. Re:Obligatory Apple Product Cycle post by Itchyeyes · · Score: 3, Informative

      I didn't call it anything. That's from a page made about 8 years ago that applies strikingly well, to this day, to just about every Apple product launch.

  7. ATT's return policy by Wiarumas · · Score: 4, Informative
    ATT has a return policy where you can exchange a phone for another one within 30 days:

    http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/legal/return-policy.jsp

    --
    I will bend like a reed in the wind.
    1. Re:ATT's return policy by IANAAC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why would I want to exchange it for a 3GS if what I want is the *new* 4? Design flaw or not, the product isn't working as advertised.

      The lawsuit would surely take much longer than 30 days. Why would you even contemplate the continued use a product that doesn't work as advertised? All to have the latest, greatest yet defective product from Apple?

  8. Re:"Difficult or impossible" is a lie by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes but that is a quote from a complaint and it needs to be a damning as it can be as long as there is a kernel of truth to it.

    I'm in an area where all the carriers have spotty signals. I am left handed. I have an iphone 4. If I purposely bridge the gap in question it degrades the reception enough to prevent me from making calls when I'm in an area with a weak signal. So indeed there are situations where the issue makes it 'difficult or impossible'.

    Luckily for me I don't naturally hold the phone that way, but it would indeed be annoying if I did. I've been using a cell phone for 15 years and would not be interested in adapting to a new phone's peculiarities.

    --
    "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
  9. Re:Bumper solves and creates a problem by Xuranova · · Score: 4, Informative

    What I didn't realise until I read a review recently is that although the Bumper solves the antenna issue, it means that you cannot plug in your standard iPod/iPhone connectors!

    I have my iphone plugged in with the bumper now. There's a clearly defined hole of which to plug in the connector. Perhaps your reviewers got the bumper installed upside down?

    http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a429/MalfoyR/bumperplug.jpg?t=1277997549

    --
    "There is no real right or wrong, just what the majority accepts at the time."
  10. Service Cancellation & Early Termination Fee by perpenso · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's not exactly about the phone. Yes, you CAN return the phone, but it's too late at that point - now you're in a 2-year AT&T contract, that you then have to pay $375 to get out of ...

    I just went through AT&T's iPhone 4 online upgrade process far enough to be shown:
    Service Cancellation & Early Termination Fee
    Call the number on your invoice/receipt to cancel your service. You may cancel service within 30 days from the activation date to avoid the applicable early termination fee (the "Early Termination Fee" or "ETF").

    --
    Perpenso Calc for iPhone. Classic Scientific and HEX functionality plus RPN, fractions, complex numbers, 64/32/signed/unsigned bitwise operations, UTF-8, IEEE FP decode, and RGB decode with color preview.

  11. Apple is living like it's the 90s by al0ha · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This kind of thing, "You are holding it wrong" is par for the course with Apple and no surprise to a long time user.

    Back in the day, circa late 80s and into the 90s, Apple computers were mainly used by artists with little technological experience. As such Apple's customer was essentially beholden to the company because let's face it, what were they going to do, use a PC? These days the Apple customer is vastly different, and though the products are nifty and slick, continuing the arrogance towards the end user may prove counter productive in the long run.

    --
    Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
  12. We have a new /. meme contender by flanders123 · · Score: 5, Funny

    As everyone can plainly see, "Just don't **** that way" is really showing some serious game and is poised for a title shot. For those scoring at home, "You insensitive clod" has had the crown for a while after it soundly defeated then-reigning champ "My eyes, the goggles do nothing!". But don't rest on your laurels, "Just don't", because wily veteran "You must be new here" is poised for a serious comeback, after it's mauling of midland "I, for one".

    1. Re:We have a new /. meme contender by TKane · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must be new here.

  13. Re:"Difficult or impossible" is a lie by wfolta · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, most reports out there talk about looking at bars and seeing them drop dramatically. NOT about actually having dropped calls.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

  14. Heheheheh. by billsayswow · · Score: 5, Funny

    They told everyone to just go get a case. They didn't know everyone would come back with a court case.

  15. everybody back to 4th grade, please. by swschrad · · Score: 4, Informative

    AFFECT is a transitive verb. "I can affect your computer's operation with this sledgehammer."

    EFFECT is an object of action. "The effect of my hitting your computer with my sledgehammer is a reduction in idiotic posts on the wacky."

    please everybody to get this correct in the future.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:everybody back to 4th grade, please. by Ragzouken · · Score: 5, Funny

      I wish you luck in effecting this change in people's understanding.