Apple, AT&T Sued Over iPhone 4 Antennas

bannable writes "Apple has been accused of violation of the Federal Communications Act, three counts of products liability related to negligence, defect in design and breach of implied warranty, intentional and negligent misrepresentation, fraud by concealment, unfair business practices and more. 'The iPhone 4 manifests design and manufacturing defects that were known to Defendants before it was released which were not disclosed to consumers, namely, a connection problem caused by the iPhone 4's antenna configuration that makes it difficult or impossible to maintain a connection to AT&T's network,' the California complaint reads."

Comments

Not surprisingly

[jgagnon]

This will have no affect on Apple's sales.

Before everyone cheers (or jeers)

[elrous0]

A lot of times (I suspect most of the time) these sorts of class-action lawsuits are instigated by not just the usual suspects (greedy lawyers), but also with the support of the companies themselves. The lawyers get a big payday. The company gets shielded from any further individual lawsuits. And the consumers get stripped of their right to sue individually, for the "settlement" of a "5% off your next purchase" coupon.

In other words, when you hear "class-action lawsuit," don't think "Yeah, we're sticking it to the big guys!" Think "No, they're sticking it to *YOU*."

Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers)

[Pojut]

"Just don't file the lawsuit that way." -Steve Jobs, paraphrased

Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers)

[Anonymous Coward]

Just don't take these posts that way.

Re:Before everyone cheers (or jeers)

[mea37]

If you're going to turn someone's phrasing back on them, try reading carefully enough to know what they said; or are you too stupid to know the difference between "indignant" and "ignorant"?

In any event, feel free to point out a class action where the only notice was buried in the NY Times classifieds. Or were you just full of crap? That the law doesn't prescribe mail as the only means of notice, does not change the fact that classes are notified by mail.

Good riddance

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, Steve, "You're holding it wrong" just doesn't cut it.

If your user's can't actually hold your phone, it's your problem, not theirs.

Re:Good riddance

[Skuld-Chan]

I expect the signal to vary when I touch the phone - that's a given. I remember when doing amateur radio as a child there was a calculated (and sometimes very noticeable) gain loss when a handheld radio came in close proximity with the human body - and most of these radios had really really efficient antennas compared to most cell phones.

I think with the iPhone 4 - the issue is if you have particularly sweaty hands (which I do) they can short the two antennas and increase the swr so much it effectively knocks the signal out *completely*. When putting the piece of tape over the gap solves the issue I think its more of a design flaw than common problem. I had a rubber antenna for some handheld radio that had a short in it once - you couldn't hear hardly anything unless the transmitter was right on top of you.

In the link you have there - the Nexus 1 owner/author admits that the signal doesn't go completely away - it still lets you make a phone call.

My Rev 2 Nexus 1 (the one made for AT&T/Telus) this issue occurs, but in most cases its not a big deal (maybe 10-20 db - if that). I had the same issue on my Nokia N97 too.

Re:Good riddance

[DRJlaw]

For what it's worth, the Nexus One had similar problems... where's the lawsuit?

You merely assume that the problems are similar. Upon what are you basing the assumption?

Could you 'short' the antenna in the Nexus One merely by holding a phone in the 'wrong' way? No.
Did the Nexus One signal drop by 24 dBm when you held it in your hand? No.
Is the reception quantifyably worse than either the Nexus One or the previous generation iPhone? Yes.

A 10dBm drop compared to the iPhone 3GS is unacceptable when the primary function of the device is to serve as a wireless phone.

The lawyers suing Apple are not going to let it confuse the issue between absorptive signal loss due to coupling with a nearby hand, which indeed most phones are suspectible to, and antenna detuning due to galvanic conduction over an uncoated external antenna, which is a design decision worthy of a Gumby.

Re:Good riddance

[Urban Garlic]

> Google lets us have porn on our handsets, so we look the other way.

That's not how you do porn. Or at least, that's not how I do porn.

Just Return It

[CowboyBob500]

FFS, if I bought a phone and it didn't work I'd just take the thing back to the shop and get a refund. That way I get my money back so I can buy a different phone as a replacement. With a class-action lawsuit they'll get $5 worth of iTunes vouchers and still have a phone that doesn't work. What planet are these people on?

Re:Just Return It

[barzok]

The idea behind the lawsuit is to remind Apple that marketing poorly designed or tested products is not acceptable. I think.

A higher-than-normal return rate, with the antenna issue being the stated reason, should achieve similar results. In theory.

Re:Just Return It

[DWMorse]

It's not exactly about the phone. Yes, you CAN return the phone, but it's too late at that point - now you're in a 2-year AT&T contract, that you then have to pay $375 to get out of. All thanks to your phone, sold to you by Apple, not working as advertised.

So then you have a choice, do you eat the $199 or $299, and the cost to get a different phone, to hold up your contractual obligation? Or do you start lighting a fire under Apple's ass to fix the phone so you can get the phone and service you paid for? AT&T blames Apple, Apple blames the consumer, so the consumer is going to have to sue to get things righted.

Re:Just Return It

[PPalmgren]

Anandtech just popped out a fantastic writeup on this issue in their iPhone 4 review. Check it out, its very informative for those who don't have basic antenna design knowledge from EE in college. To paraphrase, it reduces signal by up to 27 dbm, which is almost 50% of normal signal range. (50 to 113 dbm). This will not effect you or show on your bars if you get a better signal than ~75 dbm on a normal basis.

Pretty much anyone who has had an introductory course in EE should have forseen this after the keynote...including their employees. It is a case of gross engineering negligence. Yes, interference does happen with all phones, but the effect is much more pronounced with the iPhone 4 due to an exposed antenna and lack of spending to fix / spot the issue.

In short, your anecdote doesn't address the problem because you are in a good coverage area, and the signal degredation doesn't ruin your reception.

Re:Just Return It

[mikael_j]

Ah yes, I found the Anandtech writeup pretty funny, at least the following part:

Cupping tightly - This is the absolute worst case and involves squeezing the phone very tightly, like people are doing online in videos demonstrating all the bars going away. I squeeze the phone hard and make sure my palms are sweaty as well. You'd never hold the phone this way because it's physically painful.

I have no doubt this is a real problem but it definitely seems to be affected by the usual "let's piss all over Apple" thing that always happens when a fault with one of Apple's products has been discovered...

Class Action Lawsuit

[Little Brother]

I'm already seeing all the BS going on about how a class-action lawsuit only helps the lawyers at the expense of the plaintiffs. I do not know if this is usually the case or not, but the only Class-Action lawsuit I have ever been a part of, (interestingly against apple) resulted in a solution that I found quite suitable for the offense.

I didn't get a dime, but I didn't want one. I wanted the system I paid for to work. I got a box in the mail with express shipping paid for me to ship my laptop back to Apple. Apple replaced my defective motherboard, and shipped my computer back. All at no charge to me. I did not even pay shipping either direction.

I bought a product that didn't work as it should. I signed up on the Class-Action, I got a product that worked as it should.

BUT LAWYERS ARE TEH EVILZ! CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS ARE ABOUT LINING TEH LAWYERZ POCKETS NOT GETTING ANYTHING TO THE PLAINTIFF!

Obligatory Apple Product Cycle post

[Itchyeyes]

I believe this put's us right about here:

A minor, rarely occurring flaw in the device begins to be discussed in the Apple support forums. Whiny, artistic types post lengthy diatribes about how this terrible design flaw has made the device unusable and scarred them emotionally. Electronic petitions are created demanding that Apple replace the devices for free, plus pay for counseling to help traumatized users overcome their emotional distress.

In the Apple Product Cycle

ATT's return policy

[Wiarumas]

ATT has a return policy where you can exchange a phone for another one within 30 days:

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/legal/return-policy.jsp

Re:Bumper solves and creates a problem

[Xuranova]

What I didn't realise until I read a review recently is that although the Bumper solves the antenna issue, it means that you cannot plug in your standard iPod/iPhone connectors!

I have my iphone plugged in with the bumper now. There's a clearly defined hole of which to plug in the connector. Perhaps your reviewers got the bumper installed upside down?

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a429/MalfoyR/bumperplug.jpg?t=1277997549

Service Cancellation & Early Termination Fee

[perpenso]

It's not exactly about the phone. Yes, you CAN return the phone, but it's too late at that point - now you're in a 2-year AT&T contract, that you then have to pay $375 to get out of ...

I just went through AT&T's iPhone 4 online upgrade process far enough to be shown:
Service Cancellation & Early Termination Fee
Call the number on your invoice/receipt to cancel your service. You may cancel service within 30 days from the activation date to avoid the applicable early termination fee (the "Early Termination Fee" or "ETF").

--
Perpenso Calc for iPhone. Classic Scientific and HEX functionality plus RPN, fractions, complex numbers, 64/32/signed/unsigned bitwise operations, UTF-8, IEEE FP decode, and RGB decode with color preview.

We have a new /. meme contender

[flanders123]

As everyone can plainly see, "Just don't **** that way" is really showing some serious game and is poised for a title shot. For those scoring at home, "You insensitive clod" has had the crown for a while after it soundly defeated then-reigning champ "My eyes, the goggles do nothing!". But don't rest on your laurels, "Just don't", because wily veteran "You must be new here" is poised for a serious comeback, after it's mauling of midland "I, for one".

Heheheheh.

[billsayswow]

They told everyone to just go get a case. They didn't know everyone would come back with a court case.

everybody back to 4th grade, please.

[swschrad]

AFFECT is a transitive verb. "I can affect your computer's operation with this sledgehammer."

EFFECT is an object of action. "The effect of my hitting your computer with my sledgehammer is a reduction in idiotic posts on the wacky."

please everybody to get this correct in the future.

Re:everybody back to 4th grade, please.

[Ragzouken]

I wish you luck in effecting this change in people's understanding.