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Stop the Math Press's Presses — Knuth Announces iTex

After Donald Knuth's anticipated "earthshaking announcement," it's safe to say that the world is still here. yowlanku writes "Christoper Adams tweeted live from TUG 2010 Conference that 'Donald Knuth's TeX successor will be named iTeX.' " Knuth "also stated that this successor of TeX will have features like 3-D printing, animation, stereographic sound."

66 of 284 comments (clear)

  1. Not on the iPhone by biryokumaru · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hear it's already been rejected from the App store.

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    1. Re:Not on the iPhone by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

      What did he expect? It supports printing!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:Not on the iPhone by lostmongoose · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...yes?

    3. Re:Not on the iPhone by Stumbles · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes. One bad Apple spoils the whole bunch.

      --
      My karma is not a Chameleon.
    4. Re:Not on the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not true, historically the ratio was about:
      90% Microsoft bashing
      10% Intellectual property bashing

      Then it turned into:
      50% Microsoft bashing
      50% Intellectual property bashing

      Only recently did Apple fight their way into the mix, but they've gained market share quickly, eating primarily into Microsoft bashing. What's interesting, is it parallels the browser wars a bit, though the swings are more dramatic here. But:
      Microsoft=IE (obviously)
      Intellectual Property=Firefox (open source, makes sense)
      Apple=Chrome (works in the both big brothery sense)

      I'm not sure what Opera is, maybe SCO?

    5. Re:Not on the iPhone by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google is the new Apple
      Apple is the new Microsoft
      Microsoft is the new IBM
      IBM is just old

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    6. Re:Not on the iPhone by vivian · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's the karmic company cycle.

      One of these days IBM will die and then reincarnate as the new Google.

    7. Re:Not on the iPhone by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 3, Funny

      Monkeys even.

    8. Re:Not on the iPhone by bonch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What do you expect? Apple took the wind out of Slashdotters' fantasy of Linux on the desktop supplanting Windows, so there's some bitterness there.

    9. Re:Not on the iPhone by ae1294 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Google is the new Apple
      Apple is the new Microsoft
      Microsoft is the new IBM
      IBM is the new Xerox
      Xerox is...

    10. Re:Not on the iPhone by binarylarry · · Score: 2, Funny

      More like a library of congress.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    11. Re:Not on the iPhone by rhyder128k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a hoax, but it it's a shame that something isn't being to speed up development on the successor to LaTeX2. LaTeX 3 development work has been underway since the early 1990s. One feature I'd like to see implemented is a reliable way of inserting an inline text box that the main text wraps around, for tip boxes. There is some third party support for images that take up less than a full column width, and it can be hijacked for text, but it doesn't work reliably. Basically, what I think will happen is that TeX will die out to be replaced by DTP due to the stalled development process. A shame, as a lot of us liked it, particular when teamed up with LyX.

      --
      Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
    12. Re:Not on the iPhone by multi+io · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thank you, Sigmund.

    13. Re:Not on the iPhone by AshtangiMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      The new DEC

    14. Re:Not on the iPhone by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that 80% of laptops sold over $1000 are Apple and most high end computers tend to be Macs. It's more entrenched than Linux on the desktop that's for sure.

    15. Re:Not on the iPhone by The+Spoonman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes! It's just terrible when companies give you things for free that you can then choose to either use...or not. Shameful behavior! Congress should do something about it!

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    16. Re:Not on the iPhone by deniable · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And 100% of laptops over $1000 are expensive.

    17. Re:Not on the iPhone by pankajmay · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that 80% of laptops sold over $1000 are Apple and most high end computers tend to be Macs. It's more entrenched than Linux on the desktop that's for sure.

      Very True.
      I am a big Linux fan and personally use it everywhere, even on my macbook - however, to be honest, I am still appalled at non-resolution of issues that were glaring in the nineties and are still a gaping hole.

      A Linux user is painted as not giving a rat's ass to anything as fancy as X with beautiful ornately decorated windows -- which is true to a large extent, but I guess a large set of core developers forgot that X is what a casual computer user sees.

      I am not denying that there are some really extensive Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Mint etc.) geared towards user experience - the fact is that all these distributions are trying to provide an environment similar to Windows. Graphical Linux has always tried to emulate either Windows/Mac OS, as if they are the standard in user friendliness.

      Any other graphical environment in Linux does not make it friendly for the user.

      My gripe is that Linux has not invented a standard of user friendliness for itself, that is unique to it. A casual user sees an emulation of Windows/Mac OS and feels as if he/she is settling for second best -- I mean why not go for Windows or OS X itself!
      The advanced user doesn't even care about that!


      The result? X is still a very unwieldy system when things don't go right. If things are perfect, the autodetection system works well, but do something delta out of ordinary and X literally regurgitates all its mess, and you can spend days trying to fix something as simple as monitors of different sizes, or different makes, or on different graphic cards.

      And let us not even talk about enabling 3D acceleration for your graphics card if it is not Nvidia.
      Oh, then there's Java configuration (Want Sun Java, some distros make it extremely difficult to switch!), Flash idiocy (another reason to hate flash), and finally..

      don't even forget actually customizing KDE/Gnome so that everything at the very least looks properly, scales properly. Mac OS X does a fantastic job of all of that. Linux can actually use quite a few tips from OS X.

    18. Re:Not on the iPhone by mysidia · · Score: 3, Informative

      And TeX is a language interpreter, which is explicitly banned

    19. Re:Not on the iPhone by itsdapead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What do you expect? Apple took the wind out of Slashdotters' fantasy of Linux on the desktop supplanting Windows, so there's some bitterness there.

      On the other hand, they have rather successfully put Unix on the desktop. That should count for something.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  2. Lame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    What?

    No Twitter integration?

  3. Bummer. by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Funny

    We were all hoping he'd announce proof that P = NP....

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    1. Re:Bummer. by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Funny

      The way I see it, he's announced that the proof of P = NP will fit easily in the margin of an iTeX file...

  4. Enough with the iNames already! by Cordath · · Score: 4, Funny

    Name it after some other deliberately mispronounced form of fetish-wear. I'd happily write papers in buttplug (pronounced bootploog).

    1. Re:Enough with the iNames already! by bmo · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd happily write papers in buttplug (pronounced bootploog).

      bootploog

      Canadian, eh?

      --
      BMO - Happy Canada Day!

    2. Re:Enough with the iNames already! by R.Mo_Robert · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, it's only the diphthongs that raise in Canadian, and only (for most speakers who have it) before voiceless consonants. That's what Canadaian "out" sounds like General American "oat," but a word like "plug" is unaffected for two reasons: the final voiced consonant and the monophthong. ("Boot," too, since it's also only monophthong /u/.)

      --
      R.Mo
    3. Re:Enough with the iNames already! by Pfhorrest · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'd happily write papers in buttplug (pronounced bootploog).

      Needs more umlauts for that:

      Büttplüg.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    4. Re:Enough with the iNames already! by bandwidthcrisis · · Score: 2, Funny

      Name it after some other deliberately mispronounced form of fetish-wear.

      I always thought that "per-vertex" (as in "per-vertex lighting") sounded like that.

    5. Re:Enough with the iNames already! by Eternal+Vigilance · · Score: 2, Funny

      A hollow voice says "BÜTTPLÜG"

      There's a reason Will Crowther changed the name of the game from "Colossal Cave Adventure" to just "Adventure."

      (Sadly, an entire line of Infocom fetish followups was never to be.)

  5. 3D Printing by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Come to think of it, I'm only familiar with the hardware side of 3D printing.

    What is the state of the art in terms of 3D printing software and/or definition languages? Is there anything approaching a standard yet, that can take account of issues like number and type of available materials (conductive metal, plastic, etc.), material properties (tensile strength etc.), degrees of freedom (angles that can be accessed), resolution/step size, and other issues like that in a reasonable way?

    I doubt it really, but I guess my question is more "how far are we from achieving it? What work's been done so far?"

    1. Re:3D Printing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's usually referred to as Rapid Prototyping, and properties are limited to whatever the particular technology you're using can support. The good news is some companies (disclaimer - previous employer) like Stratasys have evolved their FDM technology to the point of creating usable plastic parts.

      Sadly, the venerable, verbose, and error-prone STL file format is still the standard input for most of these systems.

      So, perhaps Tex will support STL output for 3D printing :)

  6. This version of iTex is junk. by TheRedDuke · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wait for build 1729.

  7. Some details from the conference by WillAdams · · Score: 4, Informative

    here:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1702818&cid=32752126

    It was an hilarious presentation in the spirit of his first publication... http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/01/the-enduring-art-of-computer-programming.html (scroll down to Potrzebie)

    to repeat (w/o the geocoord)

    a successor to TeX which he has been working on for some time

    scratch tex78 and tex82

    so making up for assumptions which don't fit the internet age

    jokes about measuring and math in TeX .4pt == .3999pt

    maxdimen too small, 1sp too large

    tunnel vision caused by computers of the day

    subset of XML uses Unicode automatic everything

    all directions and all dimensions

    hypertext

    text audio video sensors GPScoords accelerometers haptics

    midi input to score and back to music

    no macros --- menu driven like Word but enhanced

    spoken command and gestures

    \i \TeX (wrapped on a sphere)

    spoken name accompanied by (optional) ringing bell

    not programmed directly

    1289 bugs in TeX
    571 bugs in metafont

    Project Marianne

    www.projectmarianne.com

    Project Biturgical

    written in Scheme using all buzzwords

    pricing - monthly subscription on cloud

    first year one month free

    pricing based on internet speed

    will change everyday

    life is too short to reread anything

    will benefit world's economy, user's can sell documents

    network of certified consultants

    online help
        - for dummies
        - for wizards
        - personalized on-line

    symbolic equations
    graphics
    maps
    satellite photos

    \i\TeX hyper document

    math mode like mathml --- must evaluate

    avatars

    hyperbolic geometry

    videoconferencing

    world-class photo retouching

    character, face, speech recignition

    cognition

    output format:
        - lasercutters
        - embroidering machines
        - 3D printers
        - plasma cutters

    interactive cookbook

    life as hypertext document

    released next month

    pending patent applications

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    1. Re:Some details from the conference by zippthorne · · Score: 3, Funny

      It seems we have no time to lose in bringing out a new typesetting engine!

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  8. Re:"...the world is still here." by Martin+Blank · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apparently, typesetting is one of those things that can grab hold of you and never let go. I know a couple of people who were trained in typesetting, and they can't seem to help but criticize the kerning and leading of... well, just about everything printed.

    --
    You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  9. this was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    your one and only chance today to claim "1st iPost" but nooooo, you had to do something else instead...

  10. Re:TFA is 22hrs stale tweet by laffer1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    according to google, his presentation was a hoax.

  11. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by icebike · · Score: 3, Funny

    That's not fair.

    All 27 users of TeX will be quite excited about this.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  12. Re:Lame Indeed by makapuf · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is it a plane ? Is it a bird ? No, it's a Woosh !

  13. Re:"...the world is still here." by Yoozer · · Score: 5, Funny

    criticize the kerning

    Perhaps you meant "keming"?

  14. Re:Lame Indeed by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How does supporting those features make something a "bloated mess?"

  15. Animations... hmm by SteveFoerster · · Score: 2, Funny

    Animations? So with a buildup like that we get... a blink tag?

    --
    Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
  16. Google search for "knuth announcement" produced... by jthill · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder if this would surprise him: at 4AM Pacific today, I searched for "knuth announcement".

    Google told me that was the 27th most common search over the preceding hour.

    --
    As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
  17. Re:Is it supposed to replace HTML? Flash? by thogard · · Score: 2, Informative

    What do you expect them to typeset the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy with?

  18. So... how long before.... by Izhido · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... Apple sues Knuth for infringing trademarks over the use of the "i" in iTex?

  19. So *that's* what Knuth was doing at Techshop ! by billstewart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Techshop is a shared-equipment workspace in Menlo Park CA, with a few other branches (they're opening in San Francisco this summer.) I was there welding a couple of weeks ago, and ran into a friend of mine who was doing a project in the laser cutter room, and the people working on the other laser cutter were Knuth and his wife. (I refrained from walking over and saying "Hi, I'm Joe Fanboi, I used your books 30 years ago!".) Techshop has laser cutters, embroidering machines, 3D printers, and plasma cutters, and here's Knuth's latest project supporting them. I wonder if he's got any plans for controlling CNC milling machines and routers?

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  20. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by steveha · · Score: 4, Informative

    All 27 users of TeX will be quite excited about this.

    Ah yes, the reliable old joke: all X people who care will be happy, where X is a humorously small number. Classic!

    But kidding aside, TeX is in heavy use. Most TeX users use LaTeX or even LyX to wrap TeX and make it easier, but TeX is in there doing the work.

    My understanding is that TeX is standard in the academic world, because it can correctly typeset serious math equations. Also, Wikipedia uses TeX to process all <math> tags (see here for details).

    I have many times read discussion boards where people said something like "I started writing my thesis in Microsoft Word using its equation editor. After my fourth bout of heavy drinking and depression, my friend showed me LaTeX, and I was able to finish my thesis with just a few wine coolers and hardly any Prozac."

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  21. Re:WTF by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know, WTF indeed. This iTEX is even going to have TrueType fonts! And he rewrote it in Java. Knuth has really gone soft in his old age.

    --
    Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
  22. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by Bluesman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I did my thesis in LaTeX; in fact I learned LaTeX to do the thesis so I wouldn't have to use MS Word. I probably didn't save any time since I was starting from scratch with LaTeX and had to update the school's age-old LaTeX template to work with the newer versions, but man, when I saw everyone else struggling with Word and whatever awful math plugin they had to use, I was glad I took the extra time.

    Now I use LaTeX whenever I can since the output is so beautiful and I can type lists and tables a lot faster than I can mouse them in in Word.

    I highly recommend it.

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
  23. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by quadelirus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is the standard for mathematics, and computer science, and maybe some other sciences, but I'm not familiar with those.

    It is not, sadly, the standard for the "soft" sciences nor for humanities. My friend in economics is using Word and has never written a line of TeX. When he tried to merge docs for his thesis in Word he ran into huge trouble.

  24. Re:"...the world is still here." by quadelirus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm pretty sure this is a joke. All the twitter posts have a parody flag, and Knuth is renowned for his odd sense of humor.

  25. Knuthing to see here by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    please move along

  26. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by Bluesman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lyx is cool, but I like LaTeX by hand because it's just faster. Anything repetitive I write my own definitions (i.e. macros) for, so it's a huge time saver.

    I really dislike WYSIWYG. I want to type, never use a mouse, and have the program format it for me.

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
  27. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by soundhack · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I went the opposite. I did my thesis in Word, even though LaTeX was the standard to use at my lab. I knew how to use LaTex (I did my MS thesis in it) but to me LaTeX was too clumsy.

    I hated the way it laid out figures/tables. A slight change of the text (add a line or two, change a parameter) would result in widely different figure/table placement, sometimes even clumping them all at the end.

    The default font the generated postscript files had was 1) ugly 2) always the same. Of course, the latter is a "good thing", but you can easily tell someone's thesis was done in Tex/LaTeX, while in Word you can choose slightly different fonts from the same family that made it look at least a little different from every other thesis.

    Viewing figures/graphs is a pain, if you add a new figure you have to "compile" the latex, call up the ps viewer, then scroll to the figure to see if it looks right, not to mention figure out where LaTeX decided to place them.

    All in all, Word has its faults but WYSIWYG was a godsend and I never regretted using it for my thesis.

    As for tables, I make them in Excel then link them into Word. That is (to me) a heck of a lot easier than typing extra syntactic markup to get tables.

  28. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by drosboro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I did my thesis in LaTeX - and I don't believe there was a single mathematical equation in it. I chose to use it so that I could focus on the structure of the document, rather than formatting. There's lots of good things about it beyond just math!

    Of course, I may have been the only person in the Faculty of Education at my university ever to use LaTeX for their thesis - at least outside of the math education folks. I had to use a LaTeX style from our computer science department - only CS, physics, and math seem to have LaTeX thesis styles at my school.

  29. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You must not be very familiar with academic publishing in CS, Math, and Physics. LaTeX is used extensively.

  30. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by Abcd1234 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now I use LaTeX whenever I can since the output is so beautiful and I can type lists and tables a lot faster than I can mouse them in in Word.

    And, as a bonus, it's actually amenable to version control. Nothing like being able to throw a document into cvs/svn/git/what-have-you, and have real, sensible diffs to tell you how the document changed over time, without resorting to storing all that version info in the damn document format itself where it can't be accessed by anything but specialized software designed to work with that format.

  31. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by Count+Fenring · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is not, understandably, the standard for the soft sciences and humanities, for the simple reason that, if you don't need the ability to typeset complicated formulas (or don't need it badly enough), the cost/reward tradeoff for learning any kind of markup language is never going to look good enough to offset the initial outlay of effort.

    Add that to the comparative rarity of technically inclined people in those fields, and I'm not sure the tradeoff is worth it in the end. These are not failproof, cookie-cutter solutions, and if you add becoming familiar with the concept of markup-based styling to the effort of learning TeX specifically...

    Most soft sciences and humanities students don't have the time or background to come to grips with LaTeX, and most faculty can afford to leave formatting up to the publisher; after all, English grammar is handled reasonably well by Word.

  32. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, the implementation of macros in modern versions of Lyx is just great. You define a macro in two parts : the latex part, that will appear in the .tex file produced and its graphical counterpart in Lyx. I use many macros in my thesis this way and it works just superb.

  33. I hope this is real by drewhk · · Score: 2, Funny

    I hope this is real, because this would be very bad for a joke.

  34. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by hgesser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The default font the generated postscript files had was 1) ugly 2) always the same.

    Funny argument. In Word the default font (Times New Roman) is 1) not truly a good option for printing documents and 2) always the same. With LaTeX you can change the standard fonts as easily as you change them in Word, plus with many fonts you get modified math fonts so your math equations fit the normal text.

    [...] you can easily tell someone's thesis was done in Tex/LaTeX, while in Word you can choose slightly different fonts from the same family that made it look at least a little different from every other thesis.

    You can easily tell someone's thesis was done in Word, because the typesetting is broken and formulas look disgusting, unless the author spent hours changing things like the size of exponents. Also, when writing for a journal/conference proceedings etc., articles are meant to look the same (since they'll appear in the same book). With LaTeX you get that for free, with Word, even when using the official publisher's stylesheet, there are always minor errors in the layout.

  35. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The default font the generated postscript files had was 1) ugly 2) always the same. Of course, the latter is a "good thing", but you can easily tell someone's thesis was done in Tex/LaTeX, while in Word you can choose slightly different fonts from the same family that made it look at least a little different from every other thesis.

    It's good to know that people in academics are concentrating on the essential.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  36. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by icebraining · · Score: 2, Informative

    All in all, Word has its faults but WYSIWYG was a godsend and I never regretted using it for my thesis.

    There are plenty o LaTeX editors that can show a live preview, which for me is the best of two worlds.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_TeX_editors

    I tried both Gummi and Lyx, and I like them both, although I do prefer Gummi.

  37. Re:Perspective vs. Tunnel Vision by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Also, for theses, the integration with BiBTeX makes LaTeX a godsend. I know of no citation management system that is as comprehensive (and works as well) as BiBTeX. I couldn't live without it (coupled with reftex-mode for emacs).

    --
    Stefan Axelsson
  38. Re:"...the world is still here." by Trogre · · Score: 2, Funny

    For the IIIrd time, I'll Hear No Ill Spoken of Problems with Fonts.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  39. Re:TFA is 22hrs stale tweet by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > I don't even use the damn thing...

    If you did you would not have been so fast to "spot the hoax" (self-parody, actually).

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.