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Hayabusa Returns Particles From Asteroid
The collection module of Japan's Hayabusa spacecraft, as recently noted, was on recovery believed to contain no samples from the asteroid Hayausa it had been sent to investigate. That conclusion may have been premature; reader mbone writes that
"The BBC now has a story, 'Hayabusa capsule particles may be from asteroid.' Apparently JAXA (the Japanese Space Agency) has opened the sample container returned to Earth by Hayabusa, and has released 'images of tiny dust particles inside the container.' Whether they are asteroid particles or pieces of dust brought all the way from Earth remains to be seen, but they were certainly returned from the asteroid — a remarkable technical feat. This announcement, I think, gives considerable hope that these particles are from the near-Earth asteroid, Itokawa, as the Japanese have been very careful in trying to avoid contamination. Even a tiny speck of dust would be very revealing about the asteroid's constitution and possibly its history as well. Kudos to JAXA for a job well done."
...the fact that they managed to land on a moving asteroid is amazing. The fact that they were able to land on a moving asteroid, take off from that asteroid after landing, and successfully make it back to Earth is nothing short of astounding.
Living With a Nerd
If these prove to be dust particles from the asteroid, this will be a big step for mankind.
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Epic mission is epic.
That's lame... I'm sorry, but that joke's been so overdone it's cold and underground now...
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Next time, they need to leave Bruce Willis.
Silly human, whales are from the moon, not from asteroids.
IS it a remarkable feat if nasa has been able to do it with comets?
... for a little Suzuki motorcycle.
If you don't feed the trolls, they will be cold and underground.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The "moving" part doesn't complicate anything once you're in space. It wouldn't be like a fly landing on a bullet; the asteroid is only moving relative to other objects in space. As far as the spacecraft is concerned the asteroid is stationary and it can take all the time it needs to land on it.
If you thought Swine Flu was bad, wait until we have to deal with Space Flu. It causes you to sneeze Tribbles and turn numerous shades of green.
"I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
I thought the name of the spacecraft was Hayabusa, not Hayausa... A little spell checking would not be that bad before posting stories! Not that I am a grammar freak (I am a french Canadian), but this one is so obvious!
Well the asteroid in kinda moving in the same direction as the Earth. Landing on a non-moving asteroid would have been harder.
The "moving" part doesn't complicate anything once you're in space. It wouldn't be like a fly landing on a bullet; the asteroid is only moving relative to other objects in space. As far as the spacecraft is concerned the asteroid is stationary and it can take all the time it needs to land on it.
Try adding a rotation into the mix. Imagine your asteroid is rotating around any axis - and trying to get a space-ship to FOLLOW that rotation without the gravity necessary to actually pull it in.
It's much more complicated than high school physics class.
While I am a fan of this mission, you really can not call it a landing since the asteroid has such little gravity. The fact is, that if you were next to the asteroid and simply had a small leak in your face place, and faced the asteroid, you would take off. It is probably more accurate to say that Hayabusa was parked next to the asteroid, which in itself is quite an accomplishment.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I would aim for the non-rotating parts
stay frosty and alert
Hopefully they will find something in the samples they brought back that indicates life or something equally as great (perhaps some new elements for the periodic table?).
This incredible accomplishment comes shortly after America has scaled back it's space program and decided to concentrate on a "commercial" space industry. I hope that JAXA can continue doing what NASA is supposed to be doing too, which is pushing the final frontier and the technology needed to get there. Maybe if they start discovering new amazing things it will push NASA and Obama to rethink their scaling back on the space program.
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
...the fact that they managed to land on a moving asteroid is amazing. The fact that they were able to land on a moving asteroid, take off from that asteroid after landing, and successfully make it back to Earth is nothing short of astounding.
Especially considering that portion of the mission was secondary. It's primary mission was to test the ion engines.
Of course, setting the bar relatively low is very common for these sorts of activities. The Mars Rovers had what, a 90-day, mission? Spirit was functional (in some form) for over 6 years. Opportunity is still functional since January 2004.
Of course the 90 days was just the 'minimum for justification of the mission' and the 'warranty' period of the rovers (The minimum amount of time that they were expected to operate). But like Scotty, with an absurd over-estimate (or in this case, under-estimate) when you shatter that estimate it makes you look pretty spectacular. (Or just really bad at estimates)
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The whale in space experiment was already tried and was a failure. Just ask the bowl of petunias.
Considering the number of failures that they had it is nothing short of astounding.
I just hope that they are from Itokawa. If not it will be yet another failure in a string that has plagued this mission. Let's hope it ends on a high note.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
...
What if it is ALL rotating?
it cant be... unless its a wobbler
all the way up to the speed of right. why there's even spaces in the spaces. feat don't fail me now.
What is the second image a picture of? and why is that caption so terrible?
The bowl of petunias was also a failure. Ask the mice.
I am a xenophobic bigot, you insensitive clod!
I think people who are bigoted against xenophobic bigots need to leave the planet.
Was this before or after they discovered nuclear fusion? Or was that a different country...
Failure is not an option.
As seen in Arthur C. Clarke's 'Rendezvous with Rama'.
Read it if you haven't yet!
'When the Going gets Weird, the Weird turn Pro.' - Hunter S. Thompson
I hope I'm not the only person who saw this and immediately thought "Ninja Gaiden/Asteroids crossover? Awesome!"
Curiously enough the ion engines failed big on this one...
they had 3 engines. They would stop working, then get back to work, etc. They had to "take parts" of one ion engine and fit it on another engine (all electrically of course)
how long until
You can't forget that gravity either. Its small, but its significant. Because asteroids tend to have awkward shapes too, you can't depend on orbits or any of the other tools you'd use for a real planet. If you're not keeping a kilometer or more away, you have to have a really good gravity map to avoid smashing into the thing.
But like you said, you can't depend on that gravity to actually hold you down, which makes it all harder still. Operations near asteroids are definitely one of the hardest things we do in deep space right now.
.the fact that they managed to land on a moving asteroid is amazing. The fact that they were able to land on a moving asteroid, take off from that asteroid after landing, and successfully make it back to Earth is nothing short of astounding.
the fact that they tried to drive a rover onto the asteroid which immediately floated off into space because they forgot about a little thing called GRAVITY is nothing short of mind blowingly idiotic
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
> The fact that they were able to land on a moving asteroid
Feh. What's "moving"? Apollo 11 took off from a "moving" planet, landed on a "moving" moon, took off again and landed back on the "moving" planet.
Of course the 90 days was just the 'minimum for justification of the mission' and the 'warranty' period of the rovers (The minimum amount of time that they were expected to operate).
No, that was just the estimated amount of time before dust accumulation on the solar panels would prevent it from receiving adequate power. The rovers and their components were never designed, estimated to last, or "warrantied" for 90 days, even as a low-ball minimum-guarantee. It was always a statement about environmental conditions on Mars, and once they saw that the environment was different and the Martian wind was strong enough to blow the panels clean, 90 days got thrown out the window because that's all it ever meant.
But like Scotty, with an absurd over-estimate (or in this case, under-estimate) when you shatter that estimate it makes you look pretty spectacular. (Or just really bad at estimates)
There was nothing absurd about it. It was just based on a faulty assumption. If the rover mission had been planned knowing Mars would be kind enough to clean the solar panels for them, they would have planned for a much longer mission. It would have probably still been a lower estimate than the possible lifetime of the rovers as one would expect to ensure that it is probable they would last that long, but not an absurd under-estimate.
The enemies of Democracy are
Voting in Democrat!
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
Fuck off, weeaboo. Japanese culture has a strong tradition of xenophobia and a feeling of cultural superiority. Must be a human thing.
Now that Steve McQueen is dead, we are all doomed!!!
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No, that was just the estimated amount of time before dust accumulation on the solar panels would prevent it from receiving adequate power. The rovers and their components were never designed, estimated to last, or "warrantied" for 90 days, even as a low-ball minimum-guarantee.
Wow. You really are taking issue with the statement, "amount of time they were expected to operate", and suggesting that 'estimated amount of time' before they ceased to receive adequate power is that necessary of a distinction?
Of course, this is slashdot. I should expect the pedantry.
(Sorry, I meant to say this is http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=....)
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With all due respect, given the cost to humanity, I think we could and should be doing much more and far better. It just that it seems to me that space exploration is now only for the affluent and now only from the safety of a lab. Please excuse my extreme cynicism, however, personally, I don't see anything really going on these days but a lot of cushy jobs for the well-positioned.
Wow. You really are taking issue with the statement, "amount of time they were expected to operate", and suggesting that 'estimated amount of time' before they ceased to receive adequate power is that necessary of a distinction?
I'm not taking issue with your precise wording, I'm taking issue with your entire characterization of the situation. You are comparing the 90 day mission time frame to the 6-year observed lifespan of the rovers and saying it was either a case of Scotty-esque absurd understatement, or that they simply suck at estimating. That's not a matter of pedantry; it's just utterly wrong.
You can reword it such that you make the rover breaking down from a mechanical or electrical failure sound only minutely different than a perfectly functional rover being unable to operate because of the environment, and in the broadest sense of "how long can we expect the mission to go?" they're the same. Yet in the more specific sense of whether or not the answer to that question is an "absurd understatement", the difference between the two perfectly demonstrates why that is not the case.
See what I'm saying? The only reason they said 90 days was because of a faulty assumption about Martian weather, and when that assumption proved to be false, there was no reason for the rovers to fail anytime soon. Given Mars with no wind, the 90 day estimate would have been largely correct. When they discovered Mars had wind, which was before 90 days had passed, they abandoned that estimate since it no longer applied. The subsequent long life of the rovers given Mars with wind in no way demonstrates that the original estimate was a deliberate understatement of the rover's potential.
If NASA had that the rover had landed next to a cliff, and the only exit for the rover would have sent it right off the cliff immediately and so they predicted a 20 second lifespan, but then it turned out there wasn't a cliff there, you wouldn't say six years later "They predicted a 20 second lifespan, but it lasted 6 years! They suck at estimating!" You could chastise them for their abilities at cliff detection, but calling it a Scotty-esque sandbag would be utterly wrong no matter how you worded it.
The enemies of Democracy are
Sure, the Japanese *say* that this is being done for research purposes, but just wait until the leftover asteroid-meat starts turning up in markets around Tokyo. My new group, "Space Shepherds" stands against the Japanese asteroid-fleet, using a decommissioned space-shuttle, and we will interfere with their phony "research" in any way we can. C'mon people, at this rate, in only a few billion years, the Japanese will have decimated the population of asteroids to the point where these majestic clumps of ice and rock will no longer roam the skies. We need to save them for our grandchildren, er, well, great-grandchildren....no, great-great......whatever, we need to save them so future-people can see them.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
...and dolphins. Let's not forget dolphins.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
The bowl of petunias was also a failure. Ask the mice.
The mice were a failure too.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
Let's not forget that most asteroids have natural thrusters, and can "course correct" at any time.
( this may not apply here, I have no idea where the asteroid was in relation to the sun )
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Yeah, because usually, you just blast away at the asteroids until that flying saucer shows up, then it's 5000 bonus points! Every time I try to land on an asteroid though, BOOM!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Like the Russians did in 1970 with Luna 16?
Thinking of comets and their evaporation as they approach the Sun perhaps?
This asteroid is an inner-solar system dwelling rock, not a deep space dirty snowball.
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
It's probably a flake of dandruff from one of the technicians.
Ah yes, I see that it doesn't fall under what I was thinking.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Why do you want new elements??
Lessee..
C, H, O, N, P, K, S, Mg for food and oxygen production
Si for energy (amorphous Silicon solar cells)
Fe, Al for construction
Si, Ca, Na for glass (UV-shielded greenhouse)
I probably missed a lot, e.g. how to keep it isolated from the cold.
And then you have a very slow, but large & comfy and *VERY* well radiation-shielded, Mars spaceship:
Mars crossers that are also Earth-crossers or grazers
C'mon! Don't tell me this hasn't crossed any of the Slashdotters' minds!
The only missing link AFAICS is how to purify the materials using only solar cells of the spaceship for energy.
I had a truly marvellous idea but unfortunately this Slashdot article is too narrow to contain it (and it might just be stupid...).
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
Space isn't happening because it is simply energetically impractical. It takes colossal amounts of energy to just get there, and then what? It's mostly empty. There's nothing up there we don't have on Earth, and really, humans aren't mean to be in space.
There's nothing to get, and nothing to do there. We're better off applying our technology and resources to the 7 billion or so people here on Earth, than spending it on the cushy few who get to twirl around the Earth in a tin can to accomplish nothing.
Space is empty. We know how to make a vacuum here. All the fantasies about space are just that, fantasies. There will never be asteroid mining or He3 collecting on the Moon. It's absurd.
And if you don't know why it's absurd, I can't explain it better than this : It takes a thousands time more energy to do anything in space than it takes on Earth. Forget industry. Makes no sense at all.
Solar power in space? The barely x4 factor of sunlight you get in space really doesn't pay for the 100x cost compared to just putting 4x more solar panels on Earth. Forget it, makes no sense.
If it did, they'd have done it in the '70s during the Energy Crisis.
However, they can still exhibit some odd motion due to things like the Yarkovsky effect. Those are more important in the long term though, so aren't going to affect short term nav too much.
...the fact that they managed to land on a moving asteroid is amazing. The fact that they were able to land on a moving asteroid, take off from that asteroid after landing, and successfully make it back to Earth is nothing short of astounding.
This achievement is significant and once again proves JAXA is a competent space agency, but close orbits and even landing on an asteroid with a space probe has been done before, on February 12th, 2001 by NASA. What makes the NEAR Shoemaker mission even more of an achievement was, unlike Hayabusa, the NEAR probe wasn't specifically designed or intended to be involved in a landing!