Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Should Cities Install Moving Sidewalks?

Posted by timothy on from the that-and-bicycle-elevators dept.

theodp writes "The real problem nowadays is how to move crowds,' said the manager of the failed Trottoir Roulant Rapide high-speed (9 km/h) people mover project. 'They can travel fast over long distances with the TGV (high-speed train) or airplanes, but not over short distances (under 1 km).' Slate's Tom Vanderbilt explores whether moving walkways might be viable for urban transportation. The first moving sidewalks were unveiled at Chicago's 1893 Columbian Exposition, and at one point seemed destined to supplant some subways, but never took root in cities for a variety of reasons. Vanderbilt turns to science fiction for inspiration, where 30 mph walkways put today's tortoise-like speed ranges of .5-.83 m/s to shame. In the meantime, Jerry Seinfeld will just have to learn to live with 'the people who get onto the moving walkway and just stand there. Like it's a ride.'"

27 of 698 comments (clear)

  1. Obesity? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wouldn't it be a better idea for people to walk those short distances, given how fat people are these days?

    1. Re:Obesity? by arkane1234 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You say that like it's not what is happening... like.. now...
      It's best not to generalize people. Everyone does that nowadays, geez.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    2. Re:Obesity? by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wouldn't it be a better idea for people to walk those short distances, given how fat people are these days?

      I don't know if this is sound logic. If I were to believe your reasoning, I would assume that we would see a lower average of obesity in a city like New York City where walking is a large part of transportation but it turns out to be similar to other places:

      New York City's adult obesity rate was 20% in 2003, compared to 23% nationwide in 2004. The national average has nearly doubled from 12% in 1993.

      I could just as presumptuously argue that people will only walk a certain amount -- no more, no less. And that if you put in these sidewalks it would only increase their range of desired travel that is acceptable to them (usually on a time based limit). So if I'm only will to walk 10 blocks and suddenly these sidewalks put me twenty blocks one way or the other, I've greatly increased my distances. And if you look at the history of the interstate and roads, it is evident than increasing a populace's means of transportation and freedom will increase your economy.

      And what caused it to double since 1993? Not a revolution in transportation, I'll assure you that. Maybe a revolution in how we do business over the internet and a number of other factors more important than new transportation technologies.

      I don't think the introduction and mass spread of automobiles in the early 1900s caused obesity. I personally think that what we eat and how we are raised to be sedentary are bigger problems than not walking everywhere. There's a number of contributing factors and deciding not to investigate new modes of public transportation for high concentrations of citizens is just not a sound decision.

      It might be tempting to blame technology for our laziness but let's face it: we've been pacified and are perfectly content to sit around to get fat--moving sidewalk or no moving sidewalk.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    3. Re:Obesity? by phoenix321 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Chewing gum is *the* single thing I truly despise in our free societies. It is ridiculously cheap, ubiquitous, popular - and more stable in the environment than granite. People chew that stuff all the time and spit it everywhere - all floors, streets, corners, sidewalks of all cities are riddled with that decades-old, positively eternal chewed chewing gum.

      Just look at the streets on a busy intersection: thousands of flattened chewing gum remains, outlasting the tarmac they are embedded in by decades.

      Sometimes when I look down on the city floor for some reason and notice the gum, I have a hard time regaining the faith in personal freedom, pushing back the urge to cry for Singaporean laws against that filth.

      Honestly: what part of individual freedom demands that people can spit this stuff everywhere?

    4. Re:Obesity? by SashaMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Be careful what you do with statistics. My guess is that New York City's rate is only slightly lower because, in addition to having a lot of walkers, it has a lot of poor people. For example, Manhattan has a much lower obesity rate, and while I could state that this is because Manhattan is the most easily walkable of all the boroughs, it's much more likely that it's because Manhattan has the most rich people.

      See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/nyregion/22fat.html for some good information

    5. Re:Obesity? by phoenix321 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Saliva is only slightly more sterile than the kitchen floor of a frat house.

      It may not all be harmful germs, but there sure is a lot of bacteria living there.

      Human bite wounds, though relatively rare, have a higher rate of infections than cat or dog bites.

    6. Re:Obesity? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you go to that page, be sure to see the BMI >30 map for males (why no total?). The US is miles ahead of the rest with 44.2%, for comparison UK has 23.7% and Germany 22.9%. This corresponds well to what I've seen, many people all over Europe are getting chubby from office work, no exercise and fast food. But almost every time I see one of those quarter ton people, it's an American. There's just a completely different attitude to being really, really huge. It's no surprise many americans identify with Homer Simpson...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:Obesity? by Nursie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes! Because statistically valid data are far inferior to anecdotal evidence!

      *facepalm*

      I'm, sorry USA, whilst the rest of the west is getting chubby, nobody (and I mean nobody) does land-whales like the US of A.

  2. The Roads Must Roll? by TheOldBear · · Score: 5, Insightful

    unintentionally blank

    --
    Caution: Do not stare into laser with remaining eye.
  3. NO. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    NO. Jesus, walk a little bit people. If you've got to get somewhere faster, ride a bike, take a cab, take the train, drive your car.

    Putting moving sidewalks everywhere is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Forget the exercise argument: imagine the fricking maintenance costs!

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  4. escalators too by butterflysrage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    this will just lead to the escalator effect... Rather then continuing to walk up or down the stairs as they move, people just get on and stand still. The same will happen with these walkways, rather then getting on and adding their own walking pace to the 9km/h, they will stand still and get in everyone elses way.

    --
    the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
    1. Re:escalators too by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Informative

      In Asimov's Science Fiction the walkways had different speeds. You could go 5 miles an hour, or you could step left and go 10 miles an hour, or step left, and go 15 miles an hour, or..... step left and go 100 miles an hour. So it's no big deal if someone just stand there. You can move to the faster track and pass them.

      Heinlein has a similar concept in his "The Roads Must Roll" short story.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:escalators too by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really? Does that bother you? Because I thought that's what pretty much everyone does, at least in America. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw someone (besides me) walking up an escalator. They are there for convenience, after all, not for helping you get somewhere faster.

      In Japan they have a cool solution: the escalator ends up having two lines. The people on the left keep walking, and those on the right stand. I guess for that to become a custom you'd need escalators that are typically crowded, which most in the US are not.

      Speaking of stairs and escalators, England really needs to catch up on this one. When I was riding the train there I kept having little old ladies ask me to carry their luggage for them up the stairs. I can't imagine what wheelchaired people do.

      --
      Qxe4
    3. Re:escalators too by easterberry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's what we usually do here in Canada. Unless it gets really busy because inevitably someone in the "walking lane" will be a dick(or bitch lets not be gender exclusive here) stand still and back up the entire system which basically screws the whole line up for a while.

      The worst is when you're trying to get down to the subway, and it's in the station and if you could propel yourself forwards you could make it but the idiot in front of you apparently just doesn't give a shit and you miss the train.

    4. Re:escalators too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You probably live in suburbia where you only encounter escalators in the mall. In any big city subway you'll find that a significant number of people are in a hurry and walk up those escalators. Please stand on the right.

    5. Re:escalators too by Moryath · · Score: 4, Funny

      Lemme guess. I'm modded "flamebait" because some fatass didn't like being called a lardass, right?

      It's reality. The people using the walkway are going to be these people. Five feet may not even be wide enough in some cases.

    6. Re:escalators too by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, all the moving walkways in the US airports have the same signs.

      The problem is, about half of Americans are lazy self-important assholes who prefer to stand on the left or in the middle.

      So it seems a weird nitpick seeing as that's the part that's not rocket science.

      The problem is that social factors like this are very important, and frequently overlooked by engineers who come up with technological solutions to problems. If people behaved properly, in an orderly fashion, then many things would be possible which currently are not.

      Moving sidewalks would be great in many places, but people like I've described will quickly make the whole thing unworkable. It only takes a few people to throw a monkey wrench into the works, so to speak. Strong enforcement could stop this behavior, but Western society has long since abandoned strong enforcement of anything because of lawsuits and cries of racism.

    7. Re:escalators too by simtel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Technological solutions like this work well in Japan because people there have a society that values politeness and not being a flaming asshole. I've read they're so polite there that they even switch off their headlights at red lights, so they don't bother the people waiting on the opposite side. Over here, people happily leave their mis-aimed high beams on and blind people who are waiting for the light to change.

      Funny enough, the last time I was in Japan I asked my host why she kept turning her headlights off at red lights - it turns out it wasn't to be polite. It was because she wanted to make the lamps in her headlights last longer.

    8. Re:escalators too by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Lemme guess. I'm modded "flamebait" because some fatass didn't like being called a lardass, right?

      No, you're being modded flamebait because you show absolutely no respect for the elderly or frail who don't dare walk lest they hurt themselves.

      With two artificial hips and a fused spine, I look as healthy as the next man, but I tell you, the speed of which I have to get off the walkway is fast enough to pose a real problem. Yes, I stand still and gather strength for that (for me) monumental jump.
      Never mind escalators, where I simply can't lift my feet high enough to climb the over-sized steps.

      The next time you feel irritated by someone standing still, chill. And seek professional help if necessary, because becoming agitated over something as unimportant as that can't be healthy.

  5. Hong Kong has one by grahamsz · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Central Mid-Levels Escalator moves you up and down about a half mile in a busy hilly part of the city. It has its critics but it seemed to be pretty well used when i was there.

  6. Conspiracy by easterberry · · Score: 5, Funny

    I have a theory. America is attempting to commit Manifest Destiny by making its people so fat that is becomes so massive that the rest of the world just collapses in on it. Black hole style.

  7. The trouble with moving sidewalks by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nobody has ever come up with a good way to manage speed transitions. Belt joints don't work too well. The clever parallelogram arrangement that starts out wide and slow and transitions to narrow and fast was too complicated. Parallel sections at different speeds haven't been tried since the Paris Exposition in 1900. The few minutes of film of that system show someone falling. There are serious problems with various kinds of shoes, ranging from spike heels to Crocs. People keep falling down on the things.

  8. The "Real" problem? by Rinnon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously? THAT'S the real problem nowadays? It's not climate change or world hunger or war, it's how we can move people around our dense urban environments as fast as possible? Aren't we all moving fast enough already? I mean, maintenance and obesity aside, do we really as a society NEED to get everywhere that much faster? Everyone seems to need instant gratification these days. People have Facebook so they can get instant feedback from friends on when they are hanging out, Employers provide Blackberries so they can call their employees instantly so there is no where they can't be reached. People seem to want things now now now all the time. It seems pretty hard to just stop and smell the roses when you're whizzing by them at thirty miles per hour.

  9. Consistent units? by siwelwerd · · Score: 5, Funny

    30 mph walkways put today's tortoise-like speed ranges of .5-.83 m/s to shame.

    Can't we at least get this in consistent units? For instance, "80,000 furlong per fortnight walkways put today's tortoise-like speed ranges of 3000-5000 furlongs per fortnight to shame".

  10. Re:WAT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You seem lost. Here, let me help you:

    http://digg.com/

  11. Not a good idea by eples · · Score: 5, Informative

    The escalators in the NYC subway system are notorious for breaking down and costing a *lot* of money to maintain. In 2008 there were 169 escalators, and overall each averaged 68 repair calls a year. It is unlikely that it would be different above ground.

    --
    I'm a 2000 man.
  12. Health Nuts by smitty777 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Simple solution - for all you health nuts that are complaining about obesity...just run on the thing backwards.

    There, fixed that for ya.

    --
    "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish"
    Albert Einstein