Remix This Game — a Free Software Experiment

An anonymous reader writes "REMIX THIS GAME is an experimental game design contest where participants can re-mix and re-cycle my free-software self-published PC game, XONG. XONG is available under permissive licenses allowing remixes and derivative works of the code, graphics, sound effects, and music—even for commercial use. The source code license is the GNU GPL Version 3, and the media is covered by the Creative Commons BY-SA license. No special software or programming experience are needed—XONG has been packaged up so that you can just download the game and edit the graphics/code/music/sounds in place, and re-start the game to see your changes. Plus, it is available for Windows, Mac OS X, and GNU/Linux, so you can remix it on whichever OS you use, using whatever programs you like."

Comments

Cool

[krzysz00]

This is great and will most likely show off the extensibility of Lisp to people who don't normally care. Also, why did the author use cells instead of standard CLOS, unlike I'm doing in my common lisp roguelke

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

I dare anybody to watch the game in action" without visiting the website and come to any conclusion about how the game works, or what it is you're controlling, what you have to achieve, how you score or how you die

Re:Cool

[GumphMaster]

Clearly his PC had just crashed :)

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

have you seen it running?
man, that game is operating in like 7-dimensions - yet without 'height', concurrently in multiple parallel-universes - with grandfather paradox feedback - before, after and even "word doesn't yet exist" the original causation event. my friend played a full game (no trainer) the other week, he finished 106 years ago with a top score of "japan"

Re:Cool

[HadouKen24]

From what I've seen so far:

You control the box. You are trying (among other things?) to kill the things moving around. This seems to be largely done by forcing them into striking bombs (the empty squares). You can use a "puck"--the round circle that bounces back toward the box--to tunnel through the walls, and you can drop "chevrons" that force the enemies to move in the indicated direction. This is especially useful for forcing them to hit a bomb or get trapped in a tunnel.

It's not /that/ arcane. You just have to watch it for a couple minutes.

Re:Cool

[Miseph]

Yeah, maybe he should make the code available to the whole world and invite people to change the graphics and sounds.

Come to think of it, I think I remember seeing a story not too long ago about something like that...

"Permissive" license

[Thinboy00]

Typically, the term "permissive" implies a BSD-like license, i.e. no copyleft. I'm just saying.

Re:"Permissive" license

[DarkKnightRadick]

Completely agree. I was turned off when I saw it was CC BY-SA and GPLv3'd. Hate both licenses. Hate.

Re:"Permissive" license

[DarkKnightRadick]

I should have known better than to click a link to anything on Encyclopedia Dramatica, doubly so since it's a link from a /. AC, triply so considering it was labeled a "man train". Epic fail on my part. You sir/ma'am, otoh, have won, but only this round.

Re:"Permissive" license

[Neil_Brown]

maintain the updates and the original code for x amount of years

I'm not aware that either licence requires you to do either of these things - under GNU GPL v3, the licence for the code, you have a number of options if you wish to distribute the covered code in binary form (article 6, GNU GPL 3.0) on a commercial basis, including:

• distribute the binary on a physical medium, accompanied by the source code on a fixed medium; and
• distribute the binary online, and offering equivalent access to the source code (i.e. just hosting both the source and the binary)

In neither case are you required to host / distribute the source code at any point after you cease to distribute the binary.

Similarly, in terms of "maintenance", your code can be as buggy as you wish - there is no obligation maintain, release new versions, merge patch submissions etc., unless you wish to do so.

(IAAL, doing quite a lot of open source work, but this is not legal advice :))

Re:"Permissive" license

[LingNoi]

I hate being told that if I make a modification to the code, I have to not only contribute it back

You don't, only if you republish the code in binary form.

maintain the updates and the original code for x amount of years.

Complete lie.

I'll maintain it (and provide access myself) for as long as I wish.

Good on you, that's exactly what you can do with both GPL and BSD.

Re:"Permissive" license

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you can combine his BSD code with your GPL code and release it as GPL. That's what the term GPL-compatible means.

Re:"Permissive" license

[Neil_Brown]

Yes, those are examples of copyright infringement claims brought against those who fail to comply with licence requirements. However, those links do not support your position that GNU GPL 3.0 includes an obligation to maintain code, as your original post comments, but rather reflect that the code is licensed, rather than freely usable works in the public domain, and that, to use the code, one must comply with the licence requirements.

Cisco could have complied with the licensing terms, using either of the options above, without a need to provide access to source code after distribution of the binary / embedded product. However, if Cisco chose to make use of the "written offer" (s6(b) GNU GPL 3.0, s3(b) GNU GPL 2.0) route, and did not accompany distribution with source, then, yes, it has an obligation to make it available after the point of distribution. But, since this mechanism is optional, it is not a requirement - maintenance of code is only a requirement if one chooses to release binaries in this particular manner.

(There are obligations other than just source distribution, but, not the point of the discussion here - referenced just for completeness)

Re:How is this different from the mod scene?

[RobVB]

Is it on slashdot because it is news, or is it news because it's on slashdot?

This discussion is now about philosophy.

Suggestions for XONG remixers

[Robotron23]

This game at first glance appears to be a take on an early roguetype; however in truth it's less adventureish, gear-based or as rich with chance taking. It's quirky though:

You control a vulnerable white square attempting to infiltrate a semi-randomly generated abstract color field environment infested with robots. You are armed with a paint-absorbent hockey puck that can pick up color and transfer it to other objects. If you lose your puck, you have to find another; these are scattered through the environment and look like the letter P. There are no hit points; any hit kills you, and completely ends your game. You cannot shoot enemies; instead you drop direction-changing arrows called "chevrons" to guide them to their doom in one of XONG's many black holes. But your puck will also follow the arrows, so be careful where you fire; otherwise you'll lose it down a black hole.

I can imagine any number of possibilities for this game so here are my suggestions...

You could attach a consistently looping 8-bit track, and perhaps add a purple 'M' character that changes said track between a selection of five inbetween your fight for survival. XONG: SONG Edition.

You could append a boss enemy with a brown capital 'K' - this will spawn periodically in the game to increase the challenge difficulty. However you can destroy him by luring him to the red 'M' which insta-deaths the K. XONG: KONG Edition.

You could attach an RPG element with a short text preamble which says you're a stoner who's attempting to work his way up the hockey league and must find a bong in under 200 move intervals to survive - upon 10,000 moves (progressive difficulty) and then you win hockey stardom...it could be called XONG: BONG Hockey Master Edition.

Re:Suggestions for XONG remixers

[Scrameustache]

This game at first glance appears to be a take on an early roguetype; however in truth it's less adventureish, gear-based or as rich with chance taking. It's quirky though:

You control a vulnerable white square attempting to infiltrate a semi-randomly generated abstract color field environment infested with robots. You are armed with a paint-absorbent hockey puck that can pick up color and transfer it to other objects. If you lose your puck, you have to find another; these are scattered through the environment and look like the letter P. There are no hit points; any hit kills you, and completely ends your game. You cannot shoot enemies; instead you drop direction-changing arrows called "chevrons" to guide them to their doom in one of XONG's many black holes. But your puck will also follow the arrows, so be careful where you fire; otherwise you'll lose it down a black hole.

Oh, so THAT's what's going on... I went to see their "Gameplay video with commentary, at youtube" and I had no clue as to what the hell I was looking at. This is some very, very nerdy stuff, and that's coming from a fairly nerdy guy. ASCII characters as game sprites... party like it's 1989!

Re:Suggestions for XONG remixers

[Robotron23]

Yeah I used to play Nethack a lot some time ago; learning a roguelike game gives one enough insight to spot any other game of the sort easily. Infact any young nerd who creates a game like XONG is very, very likely to have experience with a rogue-type game dating to the 1980s.

Nethack is common among nerds - and if you tire of the ASCII stuff you can commit a mild act of sacrilige and play a version more conventional in appearance one of which is included with the standard Nethack package that one can download at www.nethack.org . There have even been versions that are three dimensional in view perspective, but those haven't gotten too popular.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hitler also had a philosophy.

Check and mate.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hitler also had a philosophy.

Check and mate.

Well, this match is over. God wins!

Can anyone tell me

[OzPeter]

If this is advertising or genuine news?

Re:Can anyone tell me

[ksandom]

I haven't read enough to answer that. However looking at the bigger picture, I do think this sort of stunt would be good for getting more people working on open source software. Inspire them with something that is immediately fun and rewarding, and trigger the curiousities to try something deeper later on. I wouldn't be at all surprised to talk to someone 5-10 years from now and hear that something like this was their first project.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene?

[hitmark]

usually on the mod scene you do not have access to the whole game engine. Heck, when tho id software open source their game engines, they still retain copyright on the models and graphics.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene?

[Goaway]

It is different because the mod scene generally works on games that are good and that people care about.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene?

[dto1138]

Hi, before I started the contest, I did some searching and could not find any "remix this game" type contests in the indie world, because it's a very proprietary culture. I think this is news because 1. it's a game that some indie people are aware of, given that it got some reviews and downloads, and 2. it could help raise awareness of more open licensing for games.

Some comments from XONG's author

[dto1138]

Hello folks, I have addressed the originality (or alleged lack thereof) of the remix contest in another message here. I chose XONG because it's a small and relatively simple game, so it would be easier to get started remixing. There is a review of Xong here: http://playthisthing.com/xong And, folks, the game includes a thorough HELP screen on the F1 key, and an interactive in-game tutorial. So if the videos seem inscrutable, try reading the instructions. I make no claim to the engine or game being the greatest ever, but I hope the contest will be fun and get people possibly involved with creative commons licensed art, or free software, or lisp game dev. Who knows?

Re:Some comments from XONG's author

[ColaMan]

So if the videos seem inscrutable, try reading the instructions. I make no claim to the engine or game being the greatest ever, but I hope the contest will be fun and get people possibly involved with creative commons licensed art, or free software, or lisp game dev

Oh, don't mind us, we just love to shit all over someone's hard work, you know? Call it a hobby, if you will. Never mind the fact that 90% of us here couldn't construct a game to save our miserable lives, let alone make one you can remix.

Re:Some comments from XONG's author

[SquarePixel]

Hello folks, I have addressed the originality (or alleged lack thereof) of the remix contest in another message here.

I chose XONG because it's a small and relatively simple game, so it would be easier to get started remixing. There is a review of Xong here: http://playthisthing.com/xong

And, folks, the game includes a thorough HELP screen on the F1 key, and an interactive in-game tutorial. So if the videos seem inscrutable, try reading the instructions.

I make no claim to the engine or game being the greatest ever, but I hope the contest will be fun and get people possibly involved with creative commons licensed art, or free software, or lisp game dev. Who knows?

While I do really appreciate your effort and ideas, theres a few things you should look at first.

1) The game looks like from the 80's. It doesn't make a good impression and is hard to get people involved. Hell, some of the games I coded at 12-13 year old had a lot better graphics and ideas (no offense to you, just good old critical comment if you want it!)

2) Are there any tools to help change the game? There is and have been already immersive modding community out there. You have to provide similar tools, just being "open source" doesn't really do much.

As a person working in the games industry, and who has coded since 8 years old and working in freeware/shareware, indie, and commercial industry, I really think you need more to accomplish your goals.

Re:Some comments from XONG's author

[dto1138]

"The game looks like from the 80's". So um, despite claiming to work as an indie, you haven't heard of people doing retro graphics and sound on purpose as an artistic choice? "Are there any tools to help change the game"? The page says you can use any image editor to edit the images, any text editor to edit the code, and so on. The only thing not included is a proper level editor, which I have in the newer version of the engine. I also worked in the games industry, and left for a reason.

If this is supposed to show off Lisp

[Sycraft-fu]

I don't want to see something you consider needing work in Lisp. This game has to be the most confusing thing I've seen in a long time. Extremely poor design. Now I realize that doesn't mean the language behind it is bad, but it is not a good way to showcase things. "Oh look how extensible Lisp is! You can edit a poorly done extremely complex game!"

I mean I could counter with "Look how extensible C++ is! Go purchase Civ 4 and marvel at the amount of flexibility it has, without ever touching the source code (most of the game is in XML and Python)."

When you want to showcase something, you want a good looking, easy to use demo. You want a polished final product.

Re:If this is supposed to show off Lisp

[dyingtolive]

To be fair, my first thought was: "Eew gross, Lisp." My second thought was, "Wait, you can even DO stuff like this in Lisp?"

Author explains XONG gameplay

[dto1138]

Here is a youtube video i made a while back, showing gameplay with explanatory text. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9mi08KQDWw I'm used to people being put off by XONG initially because of the weird graphics, so I will try to explain it in a nutshell. You have to kill the enemies but have no weapons. The only way to kill an enemy is to direct it into a "black hole", each of which can only be used once. Basically, you lay down arrows (up, down, left , or right) on the game board, which the enemies follow, and hopefully you direct them into the holes. You have to dig tunnels to many of the holes, or to escape a bad situation, or whatever. There are 4 or 5 different types of enemies, though you have to progress in the game to see more than 2 or 3. One hit kills you and totally ends your game (start back at level 1). XONG requires quick reactions to avoid death, but requires pre-planning to kill the enemies, who behave in generally predictable ways. The predictability tells you where to place the arrows and which holes to un-dig.

Re:Because this game sucks, and is open source

[krzysz00]

Slashdot doesn't comment on the mod scene much because it is mostly limited to commercial software since it is mostly limited to good games. You take a game that has a solid engine, with lots of good looking assets, and then add to that the ability to customize it easily through XML or included editors or what not and you find that people often flock to modifying it. They start from a strong base, making it much easier to create a useful, fun, mod. You don't have to redo everything, the game is already good. You just, well, modify.

Such a game (which is open source) already exists. It's called Wesnoth

P.S. Was this flame/troll?

Jak and Daxter

[tepples]

...apart from the need to learn LISP.

Yeah, that'll be a useful skill for game programmers later on in life.

I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not. Jak and Daxter was written in Lisp.