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Death Grip Tested On iPhone Competitors
adeelarshad82 writes "Given Steve Jobs' recent claims about 'Death Grip' being a common problem among smart phones, PCMag tested out six major iPhone competitors to see how they would react to the grip. The test included Motorola Droid X, T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide, Droid Incredible by HTC, BlackBerry Bold 9650, and the Samsung Captivate. The signal strength was measured in dBm, which typically ranges between -50 to -110 dBm (numbers closer to zero show better signal). Interestingly, the test results video showed mixed results. T-Mobile myTouch 3G and Samsung Captivate showed drastic changes, dropping down to -89 and -97 dBm respectively. On the other hand, while the signal strength dropped for HTC Droid Incredible, Motorola Droid X and Blackberry Bold, it wasn't as severe. Results of testing showed that not all phones reacted the same way to the typical death grip and required variations of it to bring about results."
"On the other hand, while the signal strength dropped for HTC Droid Incredible, Motorola Droid X and Blackberry Bold, it wasn't as severe. "
Please forgive me if It was a typo and I seem like I'm being a smart-ass.
it's under construction
Why is the standard response for anything anyone is caught doing is to reply that someone else is doing (insert catch word lie: more|also|worse|longer) than we have.
How many of them have bare metal antennas on the surface of the phone? No matter what weasel words Steve chooses, there is no excuse for this defect.
So what if other phones require a "death grip" to affect signal strength? After all, all phones are subject to the laws of physics; if you block the signal, there is nothing the phone can do about it.
How many more stories about this crap? The holy iPhone has a small defect. Guess what, it is not the biggest problem that the "form over function" philosophy has brought to the device. Those who value form will always buy the stupid device, its ability to complete calls (if you don't hold it the wrong way) is just an extra.
As for the "death grip". We were not talking about any death grips, that was never the issue and people don't usually hold their phone like that. The problem was with simply touching the device at the bottom corner and only the iPhone 4 has a problem (for "why" and "does it matter" see first paragraph of post).
And can we get on now? This is getting more annoying than dupes.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
"[HTC Incredible] By using a death grip of both hands covering the phone we saw the results go from -57 to -64 dBm"
"[Droid X] can be difficult[...] We used two hands on this larger phone."
"[BlackBerry Bold] was a little more resistant [...] hold of it with two hands, we saw the signal strength go from -80 to -87 dBm."
Yeah, cause covering the entire phone with two hands is a perfectly normal way that people would ever use the phone. I bet if I shoved a smart phone up my a**, it would lose a lot of signal too...
One of the things I've wondered about is that Apple said the iPhone 4 does drop more calls than the 3GS. However, the iPhone 4 gets reception in locations the 3GS doesn't, so if iPhone 4 is dropping calls in situations where the 3GS wouldn't even have bars in the first place, it makes it look worse than it is.
They're seriously comparing phones that lose signal with a standard grip to phones where hold the phone with both hands deliberately trying to cover the antenna and pretend the result is somehow meaningful?
Wouldn't a sane signal comparison compare them using reasonably common grips? It's sorta stupid to say "When you deliberately cover both antennas with an awkward two hand grip it'll lose 10 dBm", everyone knows the antenna will lose signal if you cover it, the point is that the iPhone is so easy to cover by accident.
Attenuation happens. Film at 11...
No ever said that blocking the antenna doesn't affect signal strength. The problem with the iPhone is that the simple act of holding it normally can cause it to completely lose all signal. That is a problem. No other phones have this problem, that is why it has never come up before.
The iPhone has a serious design flaw, there is no denying this. I just hope Apple with fix this flaw before too much longer.
What's this "completely lose all signal"? I haven't seen any source for this. What I've seen is that there is a large drop in sensitivity if you hold the phone in a certain manner. If you have any reference to a complete loss of signal, please post it. If not, please stop claiming there is such a loss.
I can lose connection out here, because AT&T has low signal strength out here. I can't where I live. That suggests to me a significant but not total drop in sensitivity.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I thought the iPhone4 would only lose all signal if you're already in a low signal area?
That is, for all these other phones that lost signal strength, if they were in a low signal area, they could very well lose all the signal as well?
Of course Jobs cherry-picked the phones that would most-illustrate a similar effect. I have an iPhone 4 and I love it -- never had any signal issues (but I use a Belkin Vue Grip case). I was a bit annoyed at the photos Apple showed, though -- if you look at the pictures, you can clearly see that they're squeezing the *SHIT* out of the phone to get the analogous effect (seriously, look at the guy's thumb who's squeezing the Blackberry -- he's pressing so hard, most of his thumb is WHITE). I'm a huge Apple fan, but I really don't appreciate attempts at manipulating results like that. NO ONE is going to squeeze their phone that hard. If they do, they deserve the signal loss. Oh, and that September 30th date? I bet they're actively working on an antenna redesign and that's when they'll be rolling it out in new iPhones delivered starting on that date -- it will be very interesting to dissect an iPhone made in October to see if this theory hold water.
I think the Death Grip is referring to the relationship between Steve and the Fan-boys..
When you have to go to such inane and absurd attempts at doing damage control for a fundamentally defective design you might has well just give up trying to defend the piece of junk iPhone.
No wonder Android is destroying the iPhone in sales. 160,000 new phones a day/ 50 million or so a year. And that is just the rate as of a few months ago. Android has been doubling its marketshare every quarter since last year.
Why haven't they taken the device back for a refund? I know if I purchased a phone that didn't work properly I'd just take it back. This is the best way to teach Apple a lesson about quality control, if they are selling defective phones/phones which don't work with AT&T/phones you don't like/phones you can't hold normally - they should pay for it with a huge return rate. Take your pick of the list of purported reasons, whatever it is, if it's serious enough to lead to lots of dropped calls, why bother with the phone?
Luckily, I bought one of the magical iPhone 4s which isn't affected by any problem with dropped calls (0 over the last month), so I won't be returning mine.
Yeah but with AT&T, the entire US continent is a low signal area.
The only reason this is being discussed is Apple pointed out the external antenna.
Yes, but you didn't go all the way. It is being discussed because the design of the external antenna on iPhone4 is such where connecting the miniscule seam on the lower left side with a conductive material (e.g. your hand, keys, etc.) causes dramatic drop in the signal. Touch of a finger, while holding your phone in a perfectly normal way, can cause this.
This is not to be confused with the "death grip" shown in these videos where they are attempting to cover phones' internal antennas with both hands. In fact it's purely coincidental that the "death grip" that may or may not cover the internal antennas (depending on its location) is also connecting the 2 antennas on the iPhone4 with the bottom of your palm.
There is no single "death grip" issue shared between iPhone4 and other phones - this is just what PR Apple used to drag others into the discussion. There are 2 distinct problems:
1. cover internal antenna(s) to "lose" signal
2. touch iPhone in a lower left side to "lose" signal
Some people are saying (2) is way more common and annoying and some are saying it should never have been designed that way. That's why it's being discussed.
That's not to say that it hasn't been discussed enough already. But Apple dragging others into it prolonged it, IMO.
So the answer is that the company that pompously touts it's user-friendly atmosphere and maintains its "Just Works" slogan can get away with releasing a product that you have to train yourself to use differently that what you're comfortable with?
Wait, I just got it: This is what they meant when they said "Think Different."
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If you wrap your hands tightly around most of a phone, yes, you can produce a signal loss. You can also produce a signal loss by moving into a node or creating a standing wave pattern.
But the iPhone 4 doesn't require a "death grip", a touch of the gap separating the two antennas on the case suffices. No other phone behaves like that.
The iPhone 4 antenna design flaw results in a death *touch* which is activated simply by touching a specific place on the case. This is a far worse problem than using a specific grip to block antenna signals all around with a grip of your hand. Apple is basically trying to change the conversation to be about gripping phones in specific ways blocking some radio signals (which is an issue with every cell phone ever) and away from the design flaw which results in the iPhone 4's unique "death touch" problem.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
Besides a) attenuation due to hand holding and b) change of the antenna characteristics due to bridging there's a third problem which really exacerbates the first two: the antenna of the iPhone 4G is highly directional. In other words, it matters a LOT which way you point the phone. Sometimes even small changes around it can make a big difference in terms of whether you get data or not.
You can test this out (assuming you've got access to an iPhone 4G) by running a speed test application (there are plenty in the App Store) while holding / pointing the phone in different ways. I can trigger signal loss even without holding the phone. No bumper whatsoever is going to fix that problem and this is plain and simple bad antenna design. I lose a lot more data when streaming radio on the 4G than what the 3G did even though the bandwidth is (potentially) much higher.
Nobody has ever questioned that physical objects can block, attenuate, or otherwise distort electromagnetic radiation. That is a pretty basic fact that nobody will deny.
So, a good phone is not one that overcomes the laws of physics preventing physical objects from interfering with its signal. No. A good phone is one that is designed in a way that allows you to grab the phone in any of the usual ways that are suitable to hold a conversation or browse the web and still get a signal. They usually achieve this through properly insulated, numerous, cleverly positioned antennas. A good phone is one that grabbed in any normal way suitable for browsing/texting/talking doesn't loose too much signal. Most cellpones pass this test ok. Check the video. The ONLY phone that lost signal while being grabbed normally was the iphone 4. All the others had to be covered almost all round the phone, with a firm, very hard grip, both hands, to make them loose some signal, and even then, they performed better than the iphone4.
This is not Apple hating. It's just reality. All iphones have crappy signal. Apple designed the phone to look nice, and forgot about functionality. The iphone 4 is even worse, but all previous generations have on average worse reception thanother phones.
On the other hand, I don't like smartphones. I carry a small, shitty, Nokia 1208 cellphone. It's light, small, tough, and has a huge battery life. The battery is very easily replaced, and I carry with me a spare fully loaded battery. Many people that I work with have iphones. Most of the time, when I go down to just 1-2 bars, iphones are already completely out of signal. Example, at the elevator, every iphone user drops the call immediately, but I still keep enough signal to continue talking. That's what a cellphone is supposed to be. I don't feel the urge to carry with me a camera, a digital recorder, an audio/video player, a web browser, etc. with me at all times, but if I did, I would carry a separate device that would do all of those things, while still carrying my small, simple phone that always works.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Has anyone else noticed the people frothing at the mouth in comments on Apple stories are almost all high user IDs?
I'm just saying...
The thing is, the larger surface area of the external metal antenna does mean the iPhone gets really much better reception - both voice and data.
Not exactly. Diameter of the element affects the bandwidth of the antenna (the range of frequencies where you can tolerate the SWR of the antenna.) The "surface area" is important only in dishes.
The iPhone 4 may or may not be more sensitive than other phones, but improvements in sensitivity usually come from many parts of the device, not just the antenna.
For all the whining about this look for competitors to start introducing external antenna soon.
That is very unlikely because there is no electrical benefit of having an external antenna. The case is transparent to radio waves. An ideal design places the antenna inside the case, but at some distance from other conductive surfaces (primarily the PCB.) Apple already conceded defeat and reverted to the "internal" antenna by using a plastic bumper; essentially Apple sells a kit, and the final assembly is done by the customer :-) That's certainly a first in the cell phone business!
He's lied about being sterile to try and get out of paternity and he ripped the Woz off a few grand back by lying even before they started Apple. So he is most definitely a liar and a douche, but the question is, is he lying this time?