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PC Gamers Too Good For Consoles Gamers?

thsoundman sends in a blog post from Rahul Sood, CTO of HP's gaming business, who claims there was once a project in development at Microsoft to let Xbox users compete against PC users playing the same game. According to Sood, the project was killed because the console players kept getting destroyed by their PC counterparts. He wrote, "Those of us who have been in the gaming business for over a decade know the real deal. You simply don't get the same level of detail or control as you do with a PC over a console. It's a real shame that Microsoft killed this — because had they kept it alive it might have actually increased the desire of game developers and gamers alike to continue developing and playing rich experiences on the PC, which would trickle down to the console as it has in the past."

22 of 324 comments (clear)

  1. Not a surprise by SquarePixel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not really surprising. There are some console players good with a gamepad, but it really doesn't work as well as a mouse and keyboard combo. With FPS games you cannot turn your character as fast and precisely as you want to, and don't even get me started on how real-time strategy games work with consoles. Keyboards also have a lot more keys available.

    There is also significant amount of more intelligent gamers on PC who play strategy games, old games like nethack and adom, simulation games... They have a strategit intelligence. Consoles on the other hand are quite much just racing games, fighting games and some badly controlled FPS games.

    PC gamers are also more active in modding community, programming and everything else since it's an open platform.

    1. Re:Not a surprise by Quaz+and+Wally · · Score: 4, Funny

      PC Gamers are also much more attractive.

    2. Re:Not a surprise by NoZart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As if Racing or fighting games can not be just as sophisticated as FPS. Plus all the other genres on the consoles that can demand a high level of skill.

      The notion that PC gamers are more intelligent is just elitist bashing. Just because a gamer is proficient in some RTS, doesn't mean he cannot be a complete moron otherwise.

      I have seen state class FPS players get stumped by something as simple as tetris.

    3. Re:Not a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Its not a surprise because its been done. Twice.

      Quake 3 Arena on the Dreamcast allowed cross PC-Dreamcast competition. Even though the Dreamcast version allowed for keyboard+mouse control, PC gamers absolutely dominated the scene.

      Shadowrun on the 360 allowed for cross PC-Xbox 360 competition as well. Supposedly PC gamers also destroyed 360 users (although the game was plagued with lag, control and balance issues)

    4. Re:Not a surprise by khraz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I pity you FPS addicts who will never know the pleasure of weaving your on-screen character through an intricate ballet of running, jumping, dancing, and attacking
      ...you know, like in Quake 3.

    5. Re:Not a surprise by nacturation · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Shadowrun developers said that the console players would routinely beat the PC players.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9iSzLaI9fw

      The YouTube user aolish's comments sum it up pretty well:

      1st Post: the biggest problem with the cross-platform play between PC and 360 on Shadowrun is that the developers nerfed the PC mouse control scheme in an effort to balance the playing field between Analog and Mouse users. This is the main reason why I never got this game. Even worse, to better even out the playing field, developers went the extra mile in giving analog users aim assist while the PC players get nothing.

      2nd Post: If thats not enough, FASA also implemented a feature which causes the reticle to EXPAND during quick movements, thus lowering the players accuracy with a mouse, making it impossible to quickly turn and maintain accuracy, reducing the potential advantage of playing with a mouse. This game had a TON of potential only for it to be dragged down because of ideas like this. I do realize this was done to even out the playing field but there had to have been a better way.

      Listen to what the developer says... "our job is to make sure it's a fun experience where both sides feel they can play against each other". Isn't their job to simply connect the two games together? Why the ensuring of a fun experience so that they feel they can play together? He'd never say this about two PCs playing together. So yeah, they nerfed the PC.

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  2. FPS games for the console by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hahahahaha

  3. Keyboard and mouse by nobodylocalhost · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All it amounts to are full keyboard and mouse, and microsoft can make a ton of cash by selling them as add on accessories for the xbox360... They are just being stupid and stubborn clenching to the controller

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    1. Re:Keyboard and mouse by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep. It's not that PC gamers are inherently more skilled than console gamers. Take the best PC gamers and the best console gamers and put them on consoles and PCs respectively, and you'll still see the PC destroy the console.

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    2. Re:Keyboard and mouse by Bai+jie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They don't want to sell a richer experience, they want to sell dumbed down crap that a larger market will buy in to.

    3. Re:Keyboard and mouse by MooseMuffin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It has nothing to do with being stubborn. They won't put keyboard/mouse support on the xbox for the same reason they didn't allow PC players to play xbox players - people sticking with the controller would get destroyed. Why would they want to intentionally ship a console in which the standard hardware puts you in a position to fail?

    4. Re:Keyboard and mouse by epiphani · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, the PC gamer on the console would still win.

      He would rage at the damn xbox controller so hard that he would beat the guy using his PC with it until he had a concussion.

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    5. Re:Keyboard and mouse by enderjsv · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You're right. A lot of console gamers wouldn't know what to do with themselves. In fact, a lot of console gamers would be incredibly surprised to realize that all this time, they've been using aim-assist (I say aim assist instead of auto-aim, because auto-aim can also refer to mods that are far more influential than aim assist). If you were to ask the random console Bioshock player or Left-4-Dead player if the game had aim assist, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them said "no." But they do.

      Personally, I think it's kind of a testament to how well aiming assist has been implemented into console games. It's almost transparent, and still allows for a wide range of skill. PC gamers who don't play console games very often probably still think of aim-assist the way they think of auto-aim, that the cross-hairs instantly snap to a players head or that bullets that wouldn't have hit magically hit their targets. While the latter is still the case in some games (like left 4 dead), the former doesn't exist in any game that I am aware of. Instead, the aim-assist acts more like a weak magnet. Large analog movements have less impact the closer you get to your target. So in, say, Call of Duty, holding the analog stick all the way to the right when not targeting an enemy causes you to turn quickly. But when you're targeting a person, the person acts as kind of a magnet which means you can use larger analog movements to fine tune your shot. It's an amazing system that works considerably well and is the ONLY reason fps games work on consoles.

      That being said, as a PC gamer and a console gamer, I have to say I think there are quite a few PC gamers out there who still think there's little-to-no skill involved in console shooters and that playing a console shooter couldn't POSSIBLY be as fun as playing it on the PC. I think this is a shame as I find console games with clever aim-assist to be quite fun, not at all frustrating, with a ride range of skill levels and very entertaining.

      RTS games, on the other hand...

  4. The real question is... by 7Prime · · Score: 5, Insightful

    who had more fun?

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  5. Mouse/Keyboard Vs Joystick/Eight Buttons by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I got a wireless mouse and keyboard working on my XBox 360 and then played through Modern Warfare 2 in single player mode. On my back projection TV from 1999, I was doing on average a lot better on XBox live than I was with the control pad. We set it up on my friends massive LCD with a very high response time and I felt unstoppable. It seems when you increase the input devices and give me finer tuned control I can concentrate on that and get further up the curve more easily. Might not be the same for some people but if you want to walk all over people, see if your device supports keyboard and mouse through USB and then relearn the game. It took a while but it got to the point of not being fun anymore.

    I'd imagine on average the PC user would trounce the XBox 360 user. For me the killer aspect was reducing having to use my thumbs on two joysticks to look around down to the two dimensional plan of my mouse pad. Had to tweak the sensitivity a bit but really two different worlds.

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  6. No fun having your arse handed to you by syousef · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Re:The real question is...who had more fun?

    It's not usually a lot of fun having your arse handed to you.

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    1. Re:No fun having your arse handed to you by Smauler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Can I get more performance out of mouse/keyboard? Sure. But I have less fun when I do so!

      Why on earth do you have more fun when you're able to control your game less well? I really don't understand where you're coming from with this - I personally just get a little frustrated when on my new console I can't control my character as well as I did back in PC DOOM days (though I have enjoyed some FPS's on consoles). How is an inferior interface adding to the experience?

  7. That's really what it comes down to by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The mouse and keyboard are superior controllers for most types of games. In the case of FPS games, the difference is night and day. There's just no way to stack up with a controller, no matter how good you are. Now for other games that is not always the case. Personally I have a game pad, a flight stick, and a wheel since I love games and I get out the controller that is appropriate for the game. However FPSes, MMOs, strategy games, RPGs, the mouse/keyboard reign supreme.

    This is also why you'll see some differences in PC and console FPS design. Console FPSes use auto aim, of course, but also deal with things in a slower, less engulfing, fashion than found in some PC FPSes. With a gamepad you cannot quickly whip your character around and check your back, so it is no fun to have something where you are getting jumped from all sides. However on a PC, sure, that's a good way to add to the challenge and bring fast reflexes in to play.

    Some games are just not good for consoles. Nothing wrong with that, just something to accept. As for cross platform play, I'd love to see more of it, however it just needs to be done right. In the case of any shooter games, make it co-op only. Also choose the games wisely. Street Fighter 4 probably would work well cross platform, no real advantage anywhere there. Bad Company 2, not so much the console people would get slaughtered.

    1. Re:That's really what it comes down to by twidarkling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd wager that if games capped the turning speed on mouse controls console gamers would be _much_ more competitive with PC gamers. As it stands now though, PC gamers have an advantage that I would have to classify as unfair, not superior.

      "If you handicapped someone, they'd have less of an advantage."

      I'm sorry, but you're looking at it completely back-ass-wards, and possibly as stupidly as you can. You do not get an even playing field by artificially limiting how well the best players can do. If it's purely an equipment difference, you improve the bad equipment.

      If you're going to make it so that I can't play to the best of my ability, just to make up for the bad equipment other people are using, I'm probably not going to enjoy the game very much. You'll have your even playing field, because all the PC gamers will have walked off it.

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  8. Re:Moddable fighting games by jack2000 · · Score: 4, Informative

    There's the big one MUGEN, I'm sure if you dig some into it you can find others.

  9. Re:Curious by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

    none, microsoft have expressly forbid mouse support in xbox games

    And you know, that actually makes sense, at least for multiplayer games. If they allowed a mouse in most competitive games, it would be as disruptive as allowing cheat codes. Players shouldn't be allowed to get an advantage because they've bought an extra peripheral. Same reason PC vs Console doesn't work in competitive settings.

  10. Re:Curious by Moridin42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So... there aren't any flight sticks for flight sims, steering wheels for racers, arcade sticks for fighters, or turbo settings on 3rd party controllers because players shouldn't be allowed to get an advantage because they've bought an extra peripheral?

    Perhaps there is an actual, consistent argument for not permitting a mouse to work with a console, but that most certainly is not it.

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