Slashdot Mirror


Chevy Volt Not Green Enough For California

thecarchik writes "The first two plug-in cars from major manufacturers will go head-to-head on warranties and lease prices: $350 a month for the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, $349 for the 2011 Nissan Leaf. Now the choice shifts to other measures, including electric and overall range, as well as the plug-in perks that states like California offer to early adopters to encourage them to opt for electric cars. This is where it gets interesting. While California loves the Nissan Leaf, current regulations deny Chevy Volt buyers two significant perks: a $5,000 rebate, and permission to drive solo in HOV Lanes."

20 of 384 comments (clear)

  1. The leaf is not a hybrid by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

    The leaf is not a hybrid, the volt is. Seems pretty simple here folks.

    1. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by paitre · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not really - since the Prius DOES get the benefits that the Volt won't be.

      So... yeah. It makes very, very little sense.

    2. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by coolgeek · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, nope. HOV passes are not issued to hybrids any longer.

      --

      cat /dev/null >sig
    3. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by ageedoy · · Score: 2, Informative

      HOV stickers are no longer available for hybrids in the state of California and even current Prius HOV stickers will expire in a few years. What h4rr4r is saying is correct. http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/09/california-extends-unrestricted-use-of-carpool-lanes-by-evs-unti/

    4. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by fredmosby · · Score: 4, Informative

      The article says the 2011 Prius, which will be a plug in hybrid, will qualify for HOV passes. The Chevy volt won't even though it is also a plug in hybrid. Ironically this is because it is designed to drive without the engine running most of the time. It's catalytic converter isn't constantly heated, which means that under certain conditions it can give off evaporative emissions.

    5. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by athakur999 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I can't believe how many people here seem to misunderstand this... As you say, the Volt is an EV. It can run without a drop of gasoline if you want it to, something a hybrid can't do. The drivetrain of the Volt is purely electric. The gasoline part of the Volt is just a generator to keep providing juice to the electric motor if the battery pack runs out. If you stay within the range of the battery pack, the generator will never need to turn on.

      --
      "People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
    6. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Nope, it's got a gasoline engine. It's a different kind of hybrid.

    7. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Volt was developed by Opel in Germany.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    8. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Informative

      A vacuum sealed container is necessary because the Prius is constantly starting and stopping its engine. IIRC, the Volt runs its battery until depletion, and then runs its engine continuously until the battery is again charged... even a Prius-style insulated converter would not stay hot enough for the large time between running the engine.

      The difference is in philosophy... the Volt is essentially an electric car with a backup power source. The Prius is a gasoline car with electric assist - even though it will get a plug-in mode.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:The leaf is not a hybrid by operagost · · Score: 2, Informative

      The difference. The Volt is everything the Leaf is, and more!

      Except for the range. The Leaf goes 100 miles, the Volt, only 40 (shades of the 1980s).

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  2. GM didn't appy. by guidryp · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1896

    According to GM spokespersons Robert Peterson in Michigan and Shad Balch in California, GM decided in 2007 when it committed to series production of the Volt, to not seek California Air Resources Board AT-PZEV certification. Instead, the decision was made to certify the car in all 50 United States. ARB certification would have required, both GM executives explained, additional testing and since California's air quality regulators had yet to figure out how to classify the Volt, GM felt it was more important to continue the accelerated development program and get the car out by the Fall of 2010 then wait for ARB to come up with a way to categorize what will be for many drivers essentially an all-electric car, while for other who driver further distances each day, a hybrid.

  3. Re:HOV is for CONGESTION not for ENVIRONMENT by kriston · · Score: 2, Informative

    Again, you are looking at the EPA's web site, and the environment is not the original intent of HOV legislation. It was added-on many years later, most notably in Virginia who fight it ever time it comes up for renewal. Politically, it was a nice extra justification for having HOV lanes and in a very small number of states the clean/special fuel provision was added to the protest of highway planners.

    As for quoting my sources, here is one that mentions the optional exceptions that states may allow, and it is a very new provision. HOV lanes in Virginia, for example, are over forty years old. You'll note the DOT's web site says "may" allow clean/special fuel, not "must," for states "choosing to allow exceptions."

    http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/safetealu/factsheets/hov.htm

    --

    Kriston

  4. Re:Why should ANY of them get an HOV lane pass? by El_Oscuro · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here in DC, we have Slug Lanes. It is informal, not run by any government which is why it actually works. Essentially, commuters wishing to use an HOV lane pick 2 people waiting at bus stops or parking lots so they can. So as a result, you do actually get cars off the roads. Of course, if the government managed it, it wouldn't work.

    --
    "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
  5. oh man, bad news for chevy by LukeCrawford · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've you've ever been to the sf bay area during rush hour, most commuters would give their left nut for the ability to drive in HOV lanes. This will be /huge/ - the volt, with it's integrated range extending gas engine seems like a better idea than the all-electric leaf, but the market value of a HOV sticker, even without the rebates has got to be five or ten grand.

  6. Re:This is why we need a carbon tax by nelsonal · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you can prove that carbon creates externalities, and you can find a very good estimate for the value of those externalities, then you can impliment a Pigovian tax which would be economically efficient (which is what free marketers usually get excited about).

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  7. Re:GM Must Be Freaking Right Now by gumbi+west · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to DOE, it takes 17% more energy to make diesel from oil than gasoline. The greener the formulation (in terms of tailpipe emissions), the more energy it takes to make it.

    As for biofules, I'd rather see us use methanol which can be produced form grasses that replenish the ground they are planted on and trap substantial carbon in the ground at production time.

  8. Re:The Chevy Volt is a series-hybrid? by joe_frisch · · Score: 3, Informative

    Typically diesels are more efficient than spark ignition engines - though not as much as it seems. Diesel fuel is more dense than gasoline so while the carbon emissions are better per mile, it is not by as much as the miles per gallon would suggest.

    Typically diesels are more expensive and heavier than equivalent power spark ignition engines (for similarly advanced designs), so there is some disincentive to consumers. Diesel fuel is somewhat less available in the US.

    Possibly a more serious problem is that diesels produce more non-CO2 emissions, especially particulates, than spark engines. This has gotten better over time, but modern spark engines are still cleaner.

    A diesel hybrid is still a good idea - but not quite as big a win as it might seem

  9. Re:GM Must Be Freaking Right Now by IrquiM · · Score: 2, Informative

    Diesel cars that are sold in Europe do not usually have expensive exhaust after-treatments, and those models are too dirty for California's emissions regulations.

    It's required by law in Norway, and the last time I checked, Norway is still in Europe

    --
    This is blinging
  10. Re:Why should ANY of them get an HOV lane pass? by bwalling · · Score: 2, Informative

    I love how slug lines show the lengths that middle class Americans will go not to ride a bus.

    As someone who used to commute by bus, I can say that buses are terrible in most places I've lived. The last time I used the bus with any regularity, it was only a last resort. If I left my house on bicycle, I could be at work in 20 minutes. If I took the bus, it was 45 minutes from pick up to drop off, probably 52 minutes overall, counting the walk to/from the bus stop and being a few minutes early so as not to miss the bus. I only took the bus when it was raining or when it was summer (too hot to ride without too much sweat), but the bike was much better any other time.

  11. Re:I'm puzzled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    your comment about hearing "incorrect engine timings" is complete bullshit. There are very few cars on the road today where this is settable by a mechanic... it is all handled by the engine management system.