RIM's Encryption 'Too Secure' For Indian Government's Taste

climenole writes "Research in Motion, the creator of the widely used enterprise-cum-consumer BlackBerry device, has an uncertain position in India. The Indian government's internal security and intelligence services cannot break the encryption of the device, which makes countering terror threats and national security matters difficult — especially for a region which faces constant threats and attacks from domestic Maoist insurgents and extremist Islamic groups." Does it make you wonder how much safer everyone would be if parkas, mailing envelopes, cash, and superglue were all evaluated on the same basis?

Comments

And GnuPG?

[ciaran_o_riordan]

What about sending email with GnuPG?

Re:And GnuPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Indian Government can go to Hell for all I care. Period. Full stop.

Re:And GnuPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dot. (For good measure.)

Re:And GnuPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Indian Government can go to Hell for all I care. Period. Full stop.

And we have to care about what you think because?

"I can tell you to go to hell, but I guess you are already there"

Re:And GnuPG?

[stephanruby]

And so most European governments except the UK I take it. All European governments (except for the UK) have warned their own government officials and company executives NOT to use BlackBerry/RIM.

The main problem is that if you send a text, an IM, an email, or anything to the person sitting next to you in any European country you might be located in, it's encrypted all-right, but your blackberry will always route that message to the UK first (and the Canadian company Research In Motion is able to decrypt that message of course). And with the Anglo/Canadian/US/Australian intelligence-sharing pact and the presence of Echelon in the UK, that might as well mean you're letting the NSA and its friends index all your BlackBerry communications for US consumption.

India is not stupid. It would have to have known about this. Probably someone from the US/UK is still pressuring them to keep this trojan horse around their neck, as they're trying to get rid of it -- not wanting to make the US lose face -- still toeing the US anti-terrorist official line (hoping that they don't get sanctioned for this small act of insolence toward their masters).

Re:And GnuPG?

[Runaway1956]

"keep this trojan horse around their neck"

I find your mixed metaphor rather interesting. Are you into bestiality, or what? A little Freudian slip there?

Re:And GnuPG?

[JSlope]

Usually I think that it's too complicate to configure for an average user and it's a show stopper for most of them.

No one does

[Rix]

So they don't care.

dupe

[phantomfive]

Wow, I haven't seen a dupe this bad in a long time. The story is still on the front page. Add to it the story of being detained at the border, Verizon changing router passwords, and the hacker tapping phones for $1500, and today is privacy Sunday, eh guys?

Re:dupe

[Darkness404]

Um, I'm a bit confused on how the UAE is related to India, last time I checked they were entirely different regions of the world.

Re:dupe

[Michael Kristopeit]

that story did say they were following india's example... so it's worse than a dupe... it's breaking a story that another story already referenced in the past tense.

Re:dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the original story - India is mentioned.

Re:dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the proper term is "Think of the Children (and the Troops) Sunday".

Re:dupe

[phantomfive]

Heh, so you are one of those guys who only reads the title and not the summary, I see. Sign up to be a Slashdot editor, they need more people like you.

Re:dupe

[Anubis IV]

timothy is on a roll.

Re:dupe

[unixan]

today is privacy Sunday, eh guys?

It's DefCon weekend.

Re:dupe

[Peach Rings]

Don't you mean on a role? Wait, augh! Too much slashdot!

enterprise-come-consumer

;_; What are they doing to you my poor language?

Re:dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, summary.

Re:dupe

[EdIII]

What are they doing to you my poor language?

You act like the English Language is just in the beginning parts of that movie Deliverance. Sorry to break this to you Nizzle, but the English Language has already been metaphorically sold into brutal slavery and is currently wearing cheap leapstick, dirty lingerie, and is waiting for the next sweaty john to take her for a ride.

I don't know how much animation you watch, or perhaps Serenity, but I have the strong impression that communications 50 years from now will consist of emoticons, characters borrowed from many different writing systems, made up characters (Klingnon, LOTR, etc.), abbreviations for longer words and concepts, and largely comprised of slang.

The ability to speak, write, or in other words, communicate with a single language correctly and precisely will probably be a distinguishing characteristic or the intellectual elite and upper classes. Those people who drink from fancy glasses with their pinky fingers held outward.

I jest a little, but my command of the English language and grammar would probably be considered adequate at best in those circles.

Re:dupe

[suman28]

It is typically written as "enterprise-cum-consumer", meaning "enterprise as well as / with consumer", but in the US? not sure about Europe, that word has becum known for other things besides the cleaner version

Re:dupe

[EmagGeek]

When did India and UAE become the same country?

That's what I get for sleeping in on Sunday...

Re:dupe

[phantomfive]

Read the summary.

Re:dupe

[worx101]

I have to ask, who was the guy who sat down and decided how English should be spoken? And, do we speak the same English today that was spoken 500 or even 200 years ago.

Re:dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, I'm a bit confused on how the UAE is related to India, last time I checked they were entirely different regions of the world.

fyi. India and UAE are geographically close to each other. And there is big economic and cultural contact

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indians_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

Re:dupe

[chilvence]

If we did then we'd be able to speak a lot better german...

Re:dupe

[Peach Rings]

Yeah I know, that's my point. Some overzealous copy checker seized upon that word and corrected it to "come."

It was good enough for the /. editors

[Anonymous Coward]

They could even read the previous article today :)

Here in Lebanon!

[Anonymous Coward]

The gov can wiretap anyone without a warrant and even the different gov agencies are loyal to different political factions so I may have my phone tapped cause I belong to a certain political group or if I hampered a corrupt official from taking bribery by questioning the deal, contract or law (no way to stop them, they are tooo strong). Different political groups have their own cell phone taping and listening groups; if a politician could not get someone on a list, then his/her political group can do that independently. I have not mentioned that most other countries have strong intelligence in Lebanon so they too can have a phone tapped either via the gov agencies or thru their own espionage groups. I am not exaggerating here.

I pity those living in Saudi Arabia, India and UAE, and I bet they feel less important cause only one gov can invade their privacy!

Re:Here in Lebanon!

[Ethanol-fueled]

The problem is that, when wide snooping infrastructures are in place, organizations other than the native government learn to listen in.

Remember the Greek phone-tapping fiasco?

When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

How can we can keep private, secure communications from being blocked?

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

not rely on a corporation to provide the service for you

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

Gee, thanks! Now find a non-corporate internet provider that can stay out of reach of government tentacles. In fact find a publicly accessible internet connection that is non-corporate at all. You neighbor's wifi doesn't count for obvious reasons. We'll have to build our own.. from scratch... that's invincible... We need people with the resources that are willing to do so.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

well if you don't have the resources, or are not willing, what are you complaining about? i don't recall reading about the right to encryption in the constitution.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Anonymous Coward]

i don't recall reading about the right to encryption in the constitution.

I don't recall the power of government to keep me from having encryption being in the Constitution either.

In a perfect world, I'd win this argument. With our corrupt Republocrat government, you've won hands down.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

Read the 9th Amendment... The government only has the authority explicitly written into the document. But that doesn't matter since I'm talking of a global scale, which isn't subject to American law (so it thinks). And all written law, and our rights are toothless without a weapon to back them up. That's life in a world run by savages...

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

how are they keeping you from having it? the corporation unwilling to fight with the government is keeping you from having it. RIM offered the service. RIM is now not offering the service. the people you've entrusted (to provide you with services you are in no way guaranteed) have let you down. you have no one to blame but yourself.

trust me, i'd win regardless if the government was corrupt or not... "republocrat" or not, or even existed or not. you are a whining child. you want to provide a channel for terrorists to secretively communicate? go ahead. don't do it believing no one should care or will attempt to stop you... or do you believe people don't have the right to attempt to stop people doing things they disagree with? the whining child turns hypocritical awfully quickly.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

unlike a world where encryption is necessary to communicate? what are you afraid of?

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[EdIII]

Privacy and Anonymity are a right, and yes it is in the Constitution. Furthermore, it is a basic human right.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

The savages make the encryption necessary. What are you talking about?

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

it's not very practical to expect privacy while broadcasting on a public network.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

so either way i'm supposed to fear "savages"... and i suppose you can protect me from these "savages" for a price? no?

go sell your FUD to someone else.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

i suppose you can protect me from these "savages" for a price?

Yep... Let's see if you can make worth my trouble

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[MysteriousPreacher]

By that logic no-one should complain if wiretaps were to be installed in restaurants. It's not reasonable to expect that no-one will overhear a conversation in a public place but quite reasonable to expect that there won't be microphones in your beef satay - at least not without proper judicial oversight.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

well then, if you are already expecting privacy, then why do you need to encrypt?

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[LaRainette]

you fail to understand what technical aspects are at stake.
I access the internet through a corporate ISP but it doesn't mean I cannot use encrypted protocols to communicate.

RIM doesn't provide internet access. It provides comminucation protocoles and server infrastructure for services. (and smartphones) The same way you could use free FLOSS decentralised solutions for encrypted communication adn that wouldn't be provided by a corporation of any kind. So his point stands.

But seriously the issue here is can a government ban a telecommunication service because they "connot break the encryption" ?
I mean : I wouldn't go as far as to say I would expect them not to be able to (I don't know what my governments exact abilities are, but I would certainly hope they would no DO it even if they could !

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[LaRainette]

braodcasting on a private network with encrypted protocols ?

Try to hack encrypted information from any company in the world and we'll see if someone wasn't expecting "privacy"... when your ass rots in jail.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

no, they were expecting someone to try and view their data... that is why they encrypted it... and then someone did make that attempt, just like they planned for... and from the way you describe it, it sounds like your jail rotter was not successful....

it sounds more like a trap to me.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

Insurance... against those don't respect our rights.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[dooode]

I am not sure which country you are from. But if you are from US, there is a high probability the government already has access to all your emails, cellphone communications and messages. It is not that government cares about who you are, or people whom you talk to. Your communications are merely data nodes where these data elements are part of large networks that go through regular network analysis for keywords. If you happen to be some one from Sudan or Pakistan, with close association defined by your name or some other similarity measure, the chances of such analysis are high.

Now, you may call it a privacy breach. But if this analysis saves lives, why the heck should government not do that?

And if US is allowed to do that, its duplicity to cry foul when India asks for the same?

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

so no matter what, "those" people will always exist. how could you be so sure unless you were one of "those" people yourself?

if you can't trust the law, and encryption can be hacked, then what point does that insurance serve?

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

Ya takes yer chances... Life's a gamble... No guarantees... I make the effort, hope for the best.. and expect the worst.. That way I'm never disappointed. I derive no benefit from simply lying down and living the lie. Yours may be a different story... Whatever makes you confortable

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

you're an idiot.

From you, I'll take that as a complement...

Now please, go take some reading lessons.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[WCguru42]

Now, you may call it a privacy breach. But if this analysis saves lives, why the heck should government not do that?

And if US is allowed to do that, its duplicity to cry foul when India asks for the same?

It is a privacy breach, and no the government shouldn't be doing it. The US might do it, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to do so.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[countertrolling]

you are NOTHING

Ahhh, excellent :-) That's what I've been waiting for. What took you so long?

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[Michael Kristopeit]

hope that you weren't.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[JSlope]

My experience shows that unfortunately most people are not interested in their privacy. You'll have to find a lot of enthusiasts to implement to build your own ISP.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[selven]

Encryption by default. And steganography by default (eg. Truecrypt's nested volumes).

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[kilfarsnar]

Really? See the 9th Amendment. Just because it's not in the Constitution doesn't mean that I don't have the right.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[LaRainette]

I just I didn't made myself very clear.
What i'm saying is the following : it's not because you use a public network (internet) that your communications are not private.
Indeed Most of the companies and NGO, government agencies and such USE internet with encrypted protocols and they DI intend they telecommunications to stay private (i.e. not decrypted by people who shouldn't)

Now the thing is if private corporations are allowed to encrypt their communications on a public network (and indeed they are) WHY THE FUCK would individuals not be entitled to the same right ?

This is why in most democracies, it's illegal to decrypt encrypted data, wherever it might be from (being your neighbour, Microsoft, or the NSA)

SO yes it is practical to expect privacy while using a public network, because you are entitled to it and protected by the laws of your country.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[madddddddddd]

anyone can still utilize any encryption they are capable of... they just won't be able to buy it through services from the RIM corporation, because RIM decided to do what the government asked of them and not offer such services any longer.

you have no right or reason to expect to be guaranteed any service that the law does not specifically guarantee. there is no "right to be able to purchase encrypted communication services from the RIM corporation" in the constitution.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[LaRainette]

Yes I agree, but I was justresponding to the :
"LULZ YOU USEZ TEH INTARWEB AND THINKZ YOU CAN HAV PRIVACY n00bZ rolfmao !"

This is bullshit, end of story. Now of course nobody is entitled to be offered privacy as a service, but anyone encrypting anything on the internet is guaranteed by the laws of (most if not) all the democracies in the world the right for this data to stay encrypted.

Or in other words : it is as illegal to decrypt encrypted data as it is to open a scealed letter that wasn't meant for you after stealing it in a post office.

Re:When governments attack, only one thing matters

[madddddddddd]

it is just as illegal to simply view encrypted data without attempting to decrypt it, or to view any packets whatsoever on public network where they weren't specifically addressed to you and you weren't given authorization... so your point was what again?

the RIM corporation was deeply embarrassed by their realized stance of cowardice... they attempted to silence my criticism and have since changed their stance and once again provide encrypted messaging services in some of the areas where they had previously decided to stop offering such services.

a terrorist's dollar is still a dollar to the shareholders.

/. fails again

[david_bandel]

Don't take any articles that /. posts with it's hilariously childishly biased language in the subject header seriously. /. has one of the most embarrassingly airheaded left-wing biases I've ever seen in a news outlet.

Re:/. fails again

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

While perhaps commendable for its honestly, a policy of implying that concern for individual privacy is a "left-wing bias" is arguably not the best of strategies...

Re:/. fails again

[phantomfive]

What's the matter, are you an Indian-government apologist, or something? The title summarizes exactly what the Indian government wants.

It's not left-wing, either: neither the right nor the left in America wants the government to control communications (I'm not talking about congress people, of course).

Re:/. fails again

[Ethanol-fueled]

Try Fox News.

It's fair and balanced, with non of the media's liberal bias.

Re:/. fails again

[Gonoff]

Well it certainly is not a right wing bias!

In actual fact, possly no unnacountable, large and secretive organisation is 100% keen on individual privacy. Corporates are much better at lying about it though. They are less bothered by FOI requests.

Re:/. fails again

[dooode]

You are ignorant my dear friend...

Your emails, messages and communications are regularly analyzed by DOD for keywords. You won't even realize the amount of money and effort US agencies spend on network analysis, and the amount of funding available for such projects.

What disses me off is so much hypocrisy by American companies. They would co-operate with US federal agencies and provide the required data discretely, but would keep cribbing when other agencies ask for the same.

Re:/. fails again

[phantomfive]

You won't even realize the amount of money and effort US agencies spend on network analysis, and the amount of funding available for such projects.

That is true, I don't realize the amount of money and effort US agencies spend on this stuff. Do you have numbers, or are you just making stuff up?

Re:/. fails again

[Anonymous Coward]

Try Fox News.

It's fair and balanced, with none of reality's liberal bias.

FTFY

Re:/. fails again

[Anonymous Coward]

Not specific to network analysis, but the government knows few bounds in intelligence spending. See the recent Washington Post article.

Re:/. fails again

[Anonymous Coward]

- DARPA grants from their tactical and strategic technology offices alone exceeded $40 million for network analysis related projects involving 8 universities. Data for these varies from emails to social network nodes.
- US military projects to IBM are worth above $100 million this year. A big fraction of these deals with data analysis.
- ONR sanctioned more than $10 million for analyzing networks
- US airport names screening heavily relies on mining information, and is a huge project.
- DOD, FBI and CIA all have initiated large projects dealing with network analysis.

Further, if you have to gauge the funding levels for network analysis check out the new faculty recruits in most big universities.

Re:/. fails again

[dooode]

> That is true, I don't realize the amount of money and effort US agencies spend on this stuff. Do you have numbers, or are you just making stuff up?

- DARPA grants from their tactical and strategic technology offices alone exceeded $40 million for network analysis related projects involving 8 universities. Data for these varies from emails to social network nodes.
- US military projects to IBM are worth above $100 million this year. A big fraction of these deals with data analysis.
- ONR sanctioned more than $10 million for analyzing networks
- US airport names screening heavily relies on mining information, and is a huge project.
- DOD, FBI and CIA all have initiated large projects dealing with network analysis.

Further, if you have to gauge the funding levels for network analysis check out the new faculty recruits in most big universities.

ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Anonymous Coward]

For a student studying towards a Bachelor of Arts in Criminology and Social Policy (Honours) the author of the article seems rather uninformed about the real world. Government will always tend to stifle individual freedoms and rights in the name of security whether it be local, regional, provincial, national or territorial.

Re:ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Andorin]

That doesn't make it okay.

Re:ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Delarth799]

There is no clear cut solution to this. On the one hand people want privacy for their communications and they don't want people or the government being able to read what they are sending. On the other hand, the Indian government also has to worry about extremist threats from many groups based inside the country against the government and its people. Intercepted information from known or suspected terrorists could be used to prevent attacks if the government can decrypt it. If the blackberry has an encryption that the government is capable of breaking, then the people won't be happy because they will worry about the government listening in. Then of course if extremists use the blackberry with RIM's encryption to send information and plan and launch an attack and kill tons of innocent people, then the people be pissed about how they government should have been able to prevent this. Its not a right or wrong answer as to how to go about this I doubt there will ever be a solution where both sides can be happy, where the government can protect its people from extremist attacks and the people can have their privacy as well.

Re:ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Andorin]

Unfortunately, the smart extremists will keep away from communications methods the government can monitor. India's government basically just publicly told terrorist groups that if they want to safely organize a bombing or assassination, they should use a Blackberry.

Re:ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Anonymous Coward]

India's government basically just publicly told terrorist groups that if they want to safely organize a bombing or assassination, they should use a Blackberry.

Which probably means that the Blackberry is the only device the Indian government has been able to crack so far.

Re:ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Anonymous Coward]

This is very good publicity for RIM. Unless, of course, they capitulate.

Besides, there's always the avenue of custom encryption software; all you need is a run-of-the-mill smartphone and a data plan.
Is it really so hard to send ciphertext in a regular-ass email?

Re:ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Anonymous Coward]

Here let me fix that for you

India's government basically just publicly told terrorist groups that if they want to safely organize a bombing or assassination, they should NOT use a Blackberry.

Re:ZDNet Article Author has been Brainwashed

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless it is a bluff and India's intelligence agency has a deal with RIM to allow them to monitor Blackberry communications in India.

Cum, not come

[jone_stone]

Am I really the first to point this out? The proper word there is "cum", not "come". Come on, people! Latin!

-David

Re:Cum, not come

[misexistentialist]

True, one need only watch the documentary Caligula to put the "cum" in "enterprise-cum-consumer" in context.

Re:Cum, not come

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, come on people! Preferably, women. On their tits.

Re:Cum, not come

[Anonymous Coward]

"enterprise-cum-consumer"

Am I the only one who sees this as a name of a potential porn?

Re:Cum, not come

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Am I really the first to point this out? The proper word there is "cum", not "come". Come on, people! Latin!

*smirk*

As pointed out in the other article on the FP

[ducomputergeek]

India wants a RIM NOC in their country like the Chinese got.

Re:As pointed out in the other article on the FP

[tehcyder]

No offence, but your sig makes you sound like a twat.

Of course the funny thing

[Sycraft-fu]

Is that the very secure nature of the Blackberrys is precisely why the US government loves the things so much. They are RIM's biggest customer. They love all the security features BBs have, and love the Exchange integration.

Re:Of course the funny thing

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't reaaaaly believe the government can't get inside of the encryption on the blackberry network do you? Really? No, I mean, really? Considering they can drop a blackbox packet sniffer (aka Carnivore / DCS1000-whatever the current classified revision # is) at the core router of every major backbone node in the US, you don't believe they have one just inside each of RIM's servers? Or have forced them to write a backdoor into the system they can't talk about for security reasons? All it takes is one NSA letter, and we all know how the government is extra special careful about sending those out with all of their requirements met, right?

We're all being watched, and short of being a terrorist or acting against the true interests of the US, they just don't give a crap about you or I. Keep it that way, and you'll be fine. And get used to it.

Re:Of course the funny thing

[CxDoo]

Exchange integration is cool but I think they love it for Echelon integration.

Fancy-ass terrorists

[airfoobar]

I'm sure all terrorists use Blackberries. After all, it's a high-income job, right?

Re:Fancy-ass terrorists

[dooode]

Cellphone services are cheap in India. (Blackberry services start from Rs 249 per month == $5).

Government can't crack the encryption?

[CompMD]

Boo-fucking-hoo.

Stay out of people's lives.

Re:Government can't crack the encryption?

[dakameleon]

So given that this is being raised in the context of intelligence agencies attempting to monitor communications between suspected terrorists, if/when an attack occurs will you say the same thing?

(Not that I'm in favour of the whole PATRIOT act thing, but all too often those saying "government should stay out of people's lives" are those who clamour the most for increased power to intelligence agencies.)

Re:Government can't crack the encryption?

[mano.m]

I`d prefer my government not stay out of the lives of insurgents and of terrorists from across the border. India`s been fighting terrorism far longer than the word has been a part of the daily vocabularies of Americans.

Re:Government can't crack the encryption?

[dooode]

Boo-fucking-hoo to your post.

I want my Government to save me from terrorist threats. Tracing calls from Terrorists has been one of the important tool. And in the past they have. If these telecom providers can cooperate with US agencies, why the heck Indian Govt not expect the same.

Ans seriously, who needs blackberry. Google, Apple, Nokia all provide decent alternatives...

Re:Government can't crack the encryption?

[bhagwad]

The privacy of Indian citizens is much more important than saving a few lives

Re:Government can't crack the encryption?

[Anonymous Coward]

So given that this is being raised in the context of intelligence agencies attempting to monitor communications between suspected terrorists, if/when an attack occurs will you say the same thing?

Sure, why not? At the point that someone uses it for something bad, how many people will have used it for not-so-bad things? If it can be intercepted, then by the time you have caught the bad guy you have violated millions of innocent peoples' rights, which pretty much negates the whole reason to be looking for bad guys in the first place. I mean, if a government has such a contemptuous attitude about their citizens, then why would it ever bother to "protect" those people from terrorists? Without dignity, life has no value anyway.

Even if you look at some of the most "successful" modern acts of terror, the body count is amazingly low, truly insignificant compared to the total population. (If you live in NYC: how many people do you know, who weren't killed on 9/11/2001?) The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. So, hell yeah, I'd say society needs to stop giving abusive spy powers to its governments. Isn't it obvious?

Re:Government can't crack the encryption?

[Joey Vegetables]

Life and liberty are seldom if ever competing goals; they are almost always one and the same. The freedom of over a billion law-abiding Indian citizens, and the many lives that would be saved if murderous terrorist organizations called "governments" did not have the ability to spy on them, or to inspire the creation of competing terrorist organizations, go hand in hand.

BB Really much more secure than IMAPS/SMTPS

[simpz]

..to a server outside the country.

Or is it that most people when using other smartphones don't know or just don't bother to use the SSL versions of these services.

Re:BB Really much more secure than IMAPS/SMTPS

[jimicus]

Have you seen your average smartphones' implementation of IMAP (SSL or not)?

"Shocking" doesn't even begin to cover it. It's a minor miracle it works at all, and fancy features like IDLE are frequently not supported in any form. Frankly, even if I think it's an absurd reinvention of the wheel, I can see why IMAP on smartphones has never caught on.

UAE and maybe Saudi also banning BlackBerry

[Anonymous Coward]

UAE to Ban BlackBerry Services, Saudi Follows Suit.

UAE and Saudi Arabia have already blocked it

[Anonymous Coward]

It has already been blocked in those middle-eastern commercial hubs
UAE, Saudi Arabia block Blackberry

It's 2010

[Anonymous Coward]

You're both being syntactic reactionaries. Use the semantic instead.

Evaluations

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it make you wonder how much safer everyone would be if parkas, mailing envelopes, cash, and superglue were all evaluated on the same basis?

Burqas are evaluated on the same basis, and nobody seems to mind.

Just the beginning

[joeszilagyi]

Any communications product, vendor, or service that can't be backdoored by government(s) will be banned.

Re:Just the beginning

[Anonymous Coward]

Indian government is pissed because RIM gave backdoor keys wholesale to China and are refusing to do same in India.

Re:Just the beginning

[BangaIorean]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/BlackBerry-server-in-China-India-wants-a-monitoring-unit-too/articleshow/6230540.cms

Extract from the article:

This is the second time that the (Indian) government has threatened to block the operations of BlackBerry. In the earlier instance, tensions were defused after RIM agreed to provide its encryption code to security agencies burdened with having to monitor the chatter among increasingly tech-savvy terrorists. The fresh confrontation comes after reports that RIM was ready to set up a server in China to address Chinese security concerns. Officials here believe that if the Canadian company can take care of China's concerns by reportedly setting up a server there, it can do the same for India which is an equally big market for BlackBerry.

Re:Just the beginning

[jeti]

Didn't the frequency hopping algorithms for standard cellphones have to be modified to make eavesdropping more easy? I'm quite certain that happened in Germany and I suspect in the rest of the world as well.

Re:Just the beginning

[crackerpipe]

Any communications product, vendor, or service that can't be backdoored by government(s) will be banned.

This. Couldn't have said it better or more simply myself. Since 9/11 some agencies have the collective decency of a perverted peeping Tom. Remember how controversial FISA was, an insipidly weak accountability organization? No one else remembers it either. Their ridiculously low level of probable cause was still far too high for the cowards in the Bush administration. They bypassed it with Executive Orders and the Patriot Acts. Good luck ever restoring even ridiculously low thresholds of oversight to the current monitoring structure.

Indian English

[RandySC]

It is an Indian English issue.

"Tea Boy cum Houseboy cum cleaner wanted"

"My head is paining me" 'pain' used as a verb

"he is not lifting the instrument" 'He is not answering the phone"

2 BHK flat wanted 'BHK' = bedroom + hall + kitchen

Re:Indian English

[nashv]

Being an Indian, and an English speaker , "My head is paining me" isn't Indian-English, it's just wrong. The others are remnants of the language during the Raj. A living room would be called a "hall" which is just not in vogue anymore though technically correct. Lifting the instrument comes from a transposition of "picking up the phone", as in old school landline days. "Cum" however is a perfectly valid expression. Latin for "with, together with, along with". Don't see how that is Indian-English.

Re:Indian English

[RandySC]

I am in an area with a large Indian population (particularly Keralite). I see these ads (BHK/cum) all the time on the bulletin board at the super market, and I hear pain used as a verb all the time. I even heard a Filipina use this phrase, but she is married to an Indian:)

Re:Indian English

[Anonymous Coward]

It pains me to hear of such tales...

- T

China angle

[shadows83]

Indian government have been trying to find a solution for this for last 2 years with BB. Now there is urgency as BB has set up infra in China and all Indian calls will be routed via this infra. I am all for privacy but I will prefer Indian govt snooping on my data rather than china. And, as others have said, there is a legitimate requirement for Indian Govt to monitor all communications.

Easy to talk...

[BangaIorean]

I want to see the American reaction if Mexico were to suddenly turn into a terrorist sponsor state with the Al-Qaeda operating from Mexican soil. Imagine that tomorrow, Mexico becomes a country which churns out madarssa 'educated' men by the droves who are unemployable and have only one goal in life - Jihad against America. And in addition, imagine that Mexico constantly disputes the ownership of Arizona and sends men into Arizona to lob grenades and detonate bombs near railroads and bus stations.

The above situation pretty accurately describes Pakistan. India has been experiencing Islamic terrorism long before most current-generation Americans were born. I do not mind the Government monitoring suspected blackberry communication (Remember, India is HUGE - it is simply NOT possible to monitor ALL blackberry communication). I don't want even one more ISI-trained terrorist to enter my country and detonate a bomb. And anyway, as if the RAW even cares about my blacknerry conversations with my manager, girlfriend and sundry others!

Re:Easy to talk...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the US would just bomb Mexico back to the stone age. India is missing one, possibly two testicles. Most Indians are weakass pussies. The British steamrolled them and plundered them while they sat down and took it. Sad to see that things haven't changed much.

Re:Easy to talk...

[BangaIorean]

"Actually the US would just bomb Mexico back to the stone age"

No, that they wouldn't. Not if Mexico had nuclear weapons, with a history of selling nuclear technology to countries like North Korea.

Yeah, Indian policy through the decades has been rather pussy-ish w.r.t. this Pak-terror business. But the USA in a similar situation wouldn't dare to take the risk of losing Phoenix or Los Angeles. What I'm saying is, asymmetrical warfare has its own set of rules.

Observe that most Indians who have commented on this post support the move by intelligence agencies to monitor blackberry. And that's not because we enjoy having our conversations snooped upon - we just think it is a necessary tradeoff. And like I said, anyway the intelligence agencies are least interested in my conversations with my girlfriend or grandmothers exchanging recipes!

Re:Easy to talk...

[BangaIorean]

Ugh.. how is this modded troll? It is remarkably on-topic and shows by example, why the Indian context is different from the American one in aspects such as communications monitoring!

May the lice of a thousand camels infest the fuckwit mod who modded this troll.

Oh don't go there...

[FatdogHaiku]

Does it make you wonder how much safer everyone would be if parkas, mailing envelopes, cash, and superglue were all evaluated on the same basis?

Well, before they start messing with things like parkas, I hope they take a moment to remember Why Raincoats are Yellow...

data security vs. national security

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the 2nd news story this week about how governments are saying BB's are a threat to national security.
I find it very interesting how the word security is being used. On the one hand, the governments are saying it's
a threat to security, but those of us who work on protecting private data are saying the BB's are really good for security.

The same word is being used about the same product, but means very different thing.

Personally, I feel conflicted about this whole thing. I would like to protect my data but I would also like the
government be able to catch and prosecute terrorist. So I suppose the challenge is for the engineers to now
find a way to allow me to have my cake and eat it too.

And

[mahadiga]

In America, Govt officials address you as Sir.
In India, you've to address Govt officials as Sir.

Re:And

[Anonymous Coward]

And is there any specific reason why you keep posting this same inane thing again and again in various posts? (It's not completely factually correct either)

Re:And

[mahadiga]

In America, rules and regulations are used to facilitate citizens.
In India, rules and regulations are used to harass citizens.

Superglue

[Anonymous Coward]

Superglue would now require a "master unsticker" so that the government would be able to unstick anything glued with it?

In Good Company

[necro81]

Well, India is in good company. It appears that the United Arab Emirates will ban Blackberries starting in October because the government can't eavesdrop through the encryption, and Saudi Arabia may do the same.

Should rather dry up their power-base

[Anonymous Coward]

The "maoists" are reactting to deprivation, "deculturalization", poverty, misery and general shit-storm of government cumplicit tecno-economic theft of their subsistences by the coprorations and banks. Water, fertilizer, seeds, weed-killers, equipment ... all depend on financing and insurance controlled by Landlords. And, now, by corporations and banks. Dr. Jayati Ghosh has a few pointers on that. There's no dearth of references.

Stop making them. And there won't be that many to fight or spy on. But veveryone's after US "terror-dollars" it seems. Sad to see that as the "economy" for the start of the new century. Kinda makes me wish I could wait this one out. Away from the 4.5C (possibly 6dgC) climate disaster, of course. Which is equally artificially and intensely defended and maintained.

Blackberry finally decided to open its code

[dooode]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/infotech/hardware/BlackBerry-to-open-code-for-security-check/articleshow/6249666.cms

Btw, India is indeed in the right company. Things are no different for US.

Not just GPG

[AtillaTheMagyar]

If your point is what about other encryption services (including GPG, PGP, TrulyMail, etc.) then you are right. There is nothing someone can do to prevent EVERY way of keeping messages private. The fact that RIM is talking about (or has already) given the keys to the kingdom to some governments clearly shows that they *can* knock off some tools, but not all of them. If your point is only for GPG than I agree with JSlope that it is way too difficult for the non-technical user to configure. Luckily, there are other tools which are much easier to setup and use.