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NAMCO Takes Down Student Pac-man Project

An anonymous reader writes "The core of how people first learn to do stuff — programming, music, writing, etc. — is to imitate others. It's one of the best ways to learn. Apparently a bunch of students using MIT's educational Scratch programming language understand this. But not everyone else does. NAMCO Bandai sent a takedown notice to MIT because some kids had recreated Pac-man with Scratch. The NAMCO letter is pretty condescending as well, noting that it understands the educational purpose of Scratch, but 'part of their education should include concern for the intellectual property of others.'"

23 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. Play for free? by brainboyz · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1. Re:Play for free? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Look at the source of the page:

      "PAC-MAN's 30th Birthday! Doodle with PAC-MAN & ©1980 NAMCO BANDAI Games Inc."

      Perhaps Google actually worked with NAMCO?

    2. Re:Play for free? by cosm · · Score: 4, Interesting
      --
      'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    3. Re:Play for free? by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Funny

      Makes me wonder if Google got the same take down notice??

      No, it probably went like this:

      Namco: I am big company! Hear me RAWR!
      Google: I eat companies like you for breakfast. HEAR ME RAWR!!
      Namco: *whimpers*
      Google: Yeah, that's right. Back away slowly little one, else Imma buy you and get EVIL on your ass.

      Okay, so it was probably done with more legal talk and less Rawrs, but that would have been the idea - or close to it.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    4. Re:Play for free? by fractoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You never made burgers or chips in Home Ec? You never made a spice rack or a dustpan in Manual Arts? You never wrote a version of Tetris or Space Invaders (or Pacman) when you were learning to program?

      We're monkeys. We learn by copying what others have done. When we fully understand what's already been done, we add our own little bit and then someone else copies us.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    5. Re:Play for free? by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    6. Re:Play for free? by Eraesr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The whole thread that sprang from this post reeks of sadness. Look at all these nerds worship Google. Everyone just look at some AC's post a bit up the page. There's a copyright notification for NAMCO Bandai in the Google page. It makes it kind of obvious that Google licensed Pacman from NAMCO Bandai.

  2. MIT just needs to make it a parody by Anarchduke · · Score: 5, Funny

    Say, have NAMCOman eat the developing brains of college students while being chased by the ghosts of creativity. Then NAMCOman can eat a copy of the DMCA and kill off the creative spirits one by one.

    --
    who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
  3. what about the business majors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    why aren't they being taught to respect the rights of others (fair use, etc)? why aren't they being taught that they can't have an indefinite free lunch in a free market? why aren't they being taught that broken business models propped up by government do everyone a disservice?

    1. Re:what about the business majors? by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because business is war, only restrained by law, and free of morals. Conventional morality is a liability in business.

      The goal of business is profit, and if we would shape its behavior that must be done by imposing fear of punishment as a deterrent acts which we sufficiently disapprove. People respond to fear even if they are amoral. Be ready to inflict pain upon those you would have behave themselves.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  4. Standing on the shoulders of giants. by WoollyMittens · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A vital part of human culture is that every generation of people can build upon the innovations of the previous. This is how we got from living in caves to reaching for the stars. Greedy corporations are systematically destroying this mechanism for their own personal gain. This must be stopped or our civilization will have no future. Lawrence Lessig dat a much better job at explaining this than I do: http://remix.lessig.org/

    1. Re:Standing on the shoulders of giants. by EdIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. If Pac-Man was 3 or 4 years old and still sold on store shelves I would have infinitely more understanding and sympathy for the IP owners.

      Over 20 years old, during which you had the opportunity to profit from your work, I have no sympathy at all. In fact, it goes from sympathy to loathing for all the reasons you outlined.

    2. Re:Standing on the shoulders of giants. by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. If Pac-Man was 3 or 4 years old and still sold on store shelves I would have infinitely more understanding and sympathy for the IP owners.

      Pac-Man is 30 years old and still on the shelves.

      Google shopping returns 8,000 hits for licensed Pac-Man games and related products.

      Namco sells $3000 full-sized replica Pac-Man Arcade Games for the family room.

  5. "concern" by Josh+Triplett · · Score: 3, Insightful

    part of their education should include concern for the intellectual property of others

    Sounds like a good idea; they should learn to find intellectual property deeply concerning. These students already have, the hard way.

  6. Don't hate the company, hate the lawyers... by Kildjean · · Score: 3

    It is sad that one of the oldest gaming companies in the world has become so shortsighted as to punish a group of students using as inspiration one of the best games ever made, by a bunch of students that want to honor "Pac-Man" by recreating it on Scratch. Not to sell it but to learn. Shame on you Namco (and your lawyers), too bad non of your games now are worth even pirating otherwise i would wish that to you.

    --
    Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
  7. More information! by acomj · · Score: 5, Informative

    This page is a detailed history of Pac Man, including history and information on the different ghosts move algorithms and speed changes... I find it interesting... Read it while you can, its hosted on comcast.....

    http://home.comcast.net/~jpittman2/pacman/pacmandossier.html

  8. One down ... by StarDrifter · · Score: 3, Funny

    One down, about 1620 more to go.

  9. Namco makes a good point by Dachannien · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There really is a good lesson about intellectual property to learn here. No, it's not exactly the lesson Namco wants these students to learn, but in this overly litigious society, it's important for everyone getting an education in computer programming to learn about patents, copyrights, and trademarks, both in terms of how they work and in terms of what their limits are. After all, you can create a Pac-Man-like game without treading on Namco's turf, and programmers should take some time to learn just how to do this sort of thing.

  10. Re:Learn better by wkurzius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The reason answers exist in the back of math textbooks is not for cheating. They are there so you can check your methods and determine if you are going about things the right way.

    One of my first programming experiences was making a tic-tac-toe game on the TI-83 my high school gave me. I knew the game already, I knew how it was supposed to look and work, and therefore allowed to me to concentrate on the method only. I had the answer, I just needed to figure out how to get there.

    Scratch is a learning tool, aimed at elementary students, perhaps going into high school bit. Maybe the students (assuming they're students) shouldn't have posted the project online, but I encourage them to rip off every game they need to until they're comfortable enough to make their own.

  11. Re:Do not see that as condescending by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's really true that part of an education is in fact realizing that some people have IP that they will vigorously defend, and that you need to perhaps think more about creating something truly original in order to avoid this issue.

    Except of course that the true purpose of all the "intellectual property", as the mega-corps and their paid-for politicos envision it, is to prevent exactly that and to ensure that no innovation is possible without it "belonging" to one of the "gate keepers" of all future progress who are busily jockeying for the position in this aristocracy.

    And it is already nearly so since every thing ever invented or created always builds on the cumulative knowledge of all the discoveries and developments of the past and the recent past is nearly completely patented, copyrighted and locked down. Locked down forever - for all practical purposes from the point of view of a person living less then 100 years.

  12. Re:No, they don't make a good point. by hyphz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, I've taken a look at the site.

    What it APPEARS has happened here is that NAMCO have _assumed_, based on the appearance of the site, that what's running on the site is actually a Java emulator running the Pac-Man ROM. I say that because a) the loading sequence that Scratch projects show when invoked via the web looks just like the startup for such a Java emulator, and b) there are still lots of pac-man games on the Scratch site that haven't been affected.

    Alternatively, it could be the case that an evil-minded student rival reported the page to NAMCO. See, letting people infringe on your copyright just by turning a blind eye is ok; but if there's an actual paper trail proving that you _knew_ about the copyright infringement, you HAVE to take some legal action to enforce it - otherwise, your copyright can be overturned.

    There is definitely something deeper here than what has been reported, and it may be worth reserving judgment until we know what it is.

  13. Re:No, they don't make a good point. by mark-t · · Score: 3, Informative

    "if there's an actual paper trail proving that you _knew_ about the copyright infringement, you HAVE to take some legal action to enforce it - otherwise, your copyright can be overturned."

    AFAIK, what you're describing happens only with trademarks, not copyrights, so I think you may be confusing the two. At most, people that the copyright holder does not take rightful action against might be construed as having been given implicit permission to copy the work, but that should not remotely affect future cases against other people.

  14. Re:Do not see that as condescending by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Without patents, we wouldn't have a large portion of the innovation of today;

    That is merely an assertion of the "intellectual property" would-be landlords, in fact it is easily disproved: progress existed long before patents, in fact patents were present for something like the last 1% of recorded human history. And before you start talking about how fast that last bit developed, that has nothing whatsoever to do with patents but with easy access to and free exchange of information between scientists and inventors, the very thing that is now being restricted, combined with a critical mass of population density and transportation capabilities. Patents were simply inconsequential, having accounted for only a tiny part of the industrial output of that period, not to mention the fact that some industrial powers (I am looking at you USA) developed precisely because they ignored patents claimed by their former bosses (Britain in this case).