Microsoft Reboots Two Classic PC Games

An anonymous reader writes "Ever since it launched the Xbox, Microsoft has had a fickle relationship with Windows as a gaming platform. On one hand PC gaming is a major driver of hardware and operating system sales, but on the other hand the PC is inherently less secure than the Xbox console, with piracy much more likely to impact sales of a PC title than a console one. Games for Windows Live has been an attempt to bring some of the success of Xbox Live to the PC, and while many games have shipped with support for Games for Windows Live, it hasn't exactly been a favorite of PC gamers. After all these half-hearted efforts, the last thing anyone expected was for Microsoft to announce new PC-only reboots of two classic game franchises, Flight Simulator and Age of Empires. But yesterday it did just that, announcing a massively multiplayer version of Age of Empires and a new Flight Simulator called Flight. The big question is whether Microsoft can make Games For Windows Live relevant in a market where Steam has taken hold, or if it's too late."

Comments

GFWL, no thanks

[cbope]

As long as it's attached to GFWL, no thanks. GFWL is such a piece of shit I will not have anything to do with games that require it. If you want me to buy your game, do not tie it to GFWL. It is unstable and a huge pain in the ass to deal with. MS should fire the management that came up with it; it does not in any way help Windows as a game platform.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[EvilIdler]

To pile up on the hatred: Live accounts will also occasionally expire. Accounts tied to purchases. Fuck MS.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[Xian97]

The only game I have tried through Games for Windows Live is Warhammer 40K Dawn of War II and it has yet to ever be able to connect - it always returns error 0x81051911. The troubleshooting steps Microsoft has you go through include everything from port forwarding a half dozen ports to resetting your TCP/IP stack, yet I can play any other online game with no issues, including connecting to X-Box Live on my sons console. GFWL is a POS and I won't buy any other game that requires it.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[Spad]

What's that? You want me to register for a GFWL account and sign in every time I load the game just so I can play in single player? Good luck with that.

Yes, I know, you can create offline accounts, but you still have to create them and sign in just to play single player and yes, I know Blizzard have done the same thing with Starcraft II & Battle.net and they're fuckers for doing it too.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[El_Muerte_TDS]

Don't forget about all Steam games.
Or the recent Bioware games.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[CeruleanDragon]

I don't know what Bioware's up to, but I think Steam is different... since you're buying the game from them and getting it download-only, setting up an account is less invasive, since you had to do it to make the purchase to begin with. GFWL games require you to setup an account and login every time you play for a game you purchased in a box at the store. To that I disagree wholeheartedly. If I buy something at the store it's mine and unless it's something like WoW, I do not want to have to sign up with anything when I get home with it, I just want to jump in and play. If the game offers online gameplay against friends, then the worst I would hope I'd have to do is create a username. That's all.

On the other hand, does GFWL not allow an auto-login feature? When I double click a Steam-based game icon I get a brief, "Logging you in" screen and then on with the game. Unless I'm not online in which case it's not as brief and eventually changes to, "You are offline, loading the game anyway, 'cause we love you like that" screen. Which is ok, as long as it gets into the game.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[Kjella]

Huh? Both Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age shipped with only a disc check; no online activation at all,

I believe for Dragon Age you get some additional shit if you bought any of the DLC. Which I didn't, so... Great game, looking forward to DA2 but give the fucking in-game DLC peddlers a dollar sign instead of the usual exclamation mark. I'd ask for an option to completely get rid of them, but I know I won't get it.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[Spad]

Registering * Signing In to get Bonus Content is *not* the same a having to do so just to play the game.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[naz404]

The new version of GFWL can run in offline mode which is a welcome change for those with flaky internet connections. That being said, it's still irritating and its only use is to record GFWL achievements in single player games.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[realityimpaired]

Blizzard at least gives you something in return for it... you can chat with friends playing other games. I don't have Starcraft II at all, but I regularly chat with friends playing that game from WoW.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[petermgreen]

I don't know what Bioware's up to, but I think Steam is different... since you're buying the game from them and getting it download-only
IIRC half life 2 (and I think other valve games too) requires you to sign up to steam and activate and your copy through it (and IIRC the activation process involves a forced update to the latest version of the game) even if you bought your game as a boxed copy.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[El_Muerte_TDS]

Bioware/EA also offers download only versions of the games. Steam games can also be bough as "normal" retail versions, but still require Steam. When you bought a retail Steam game (like: Just Cause 2, Borderlands, Mafia 2, Half Life 2, etc.) you will have to through the additional hassle to set up an account. For Steam games you also have to log in every time you want to play a game.

GFWL does have an auto login feature. GFWL doesn't require logging in or being online, it depends on the games. Most GFWL games I played didn't require being online, or to register you product online. You just had to create a GFWL profile (which was only stored on your system). These games are: Gears of War, Fallout 3, Batman: Arkham Asylum. For Fallout 3 you can also get rid of GFWL completely, can be done by simply installing the patch directly from Bethesda.

But yes, GFWL is quite an POS. It fails to log in often, or takes a long time, sometimes forgets the saved credentials. Installing patches through GFWL are a real PITA. Newer versions of GFWL broke older games, which then needed a patch, a patch you could only install from within the GFWL interface of the running game (chicked-egg, hurray).

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[fprintf]

Your technical notion of troubleshooting is entirely much more complicated than the consumer/user version of troubleshooting. What you described as "choose a random item from a list" is exactly what MS and any other consumer company label as troubleshooting. Look in the back of many device manuals and you will see a section labeled "troubleshooting" where it gives a description of the problem and a list of things to do/try.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[YojimboJango]

The only game I have tried through Games for Windows Live is Warhammer 40K Dawn of War II and it has yet to ever be able to connect - it always returns error 0x81051911. The troubleshooting steps Microsoft has you go through include everything from port forwarding a half dozen ports to resetting your TCP/IP stack, yet I can play any other online game with no issues, including connecting to X-Box Live on my sons console. GFWL is a POS and I won't buy any other game that requires it.

Believe it or not I bought Bioshock 2 through steam, and it still required GFWL. I had to go through all that and more just to be able to save my progress in the game. Included in this mess is having to type in a CD Key twice for a digitally downloaded game (once to install the game, and once to tie it to my GFWL account).

Never again. Ever. YMMV, but all two games I've ever purchased that required GFWL have required googling for a solution to their DRM hassles to get the single player up and running. Never ever again.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they fixed that years ago, it was due to the passport account expiring due to over a year of inactivity or similar.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[wjousts]

I don't know what Bioware's up to, but I think Steam is different... since you're buying the game from them and getting it download-only,

Except when you buy the boxed game in the store....and still need a Steam account. That's why I'm not buying the more recent Total War games.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[cduffy]

I got GTA4 working to my satisfaction (memory-editing hackery and save-game hacking in single-player mode is fun, and if I paid for the game, who's to say that I can't/shouldn't?) by using a replacement for the GFWL DLL which stubbed out the icky stuff. Sadly, such a thing isn't available for the entire GFWL-based library.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[morari]

I don't know what Bioware's up to, but I think Steam is different... since you're buying the game from them and getting it download-only, setting up an account is less invasive, since you had to do it to make the purchase to begin with.

Yeah. Imagine my surprise when I bought Half-life 2 down at the local Wal-Mart on a whim, only to discover that I couldn't play it because 56K was the only available internet at the time. Steam is no less shitty than Games for Windows.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[IndustrialComplex]

"You are offline, loading the game anyway, 'cause we love you like that" screen.

Yeah, glad that works for you.

For me it's almost always. You are offline, something you did we didn't like so we are treating your game as online only, fuck you.

And it ALWAYS happens when I'm waiting at the airport and just want to play a few offline, single player games.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[arth1]

Offline accounts is a nice idea, but the way GFWL has implemented it makes is worse than nothing.
1: You still need to sign up for a Windows Live account and Microsoft Passport to activate it.
2: If you save your progress in offline mode, and then log in to online mode, your save progress is unavailable. Even on the same machine.

I did the big mistake of buying a collection of games on Steam that looked nice: Dirt, Dirt2, Fuel and Grid. Then I discovered that I could play but not save my progress without signing up for an account I didn't want. And would get interrupted every few minutes by a notice saying the servers could not be reached. It turns out that the service doesn't appear to work through NAT if instead of a cheap cone NAT home router, you have full symmetric NAT. In short, the games were a waste of money.

It's getting ridiculous when in addition to the Steam DRM, you are subjected to Securom (or worse) AND have to enter a CD key to use online AND have to sign up for a Live account. The incentive to download a cracked copy has become rather large, and isn't caused by pirates, but by MBAs who don't seem to understand that making your paying customers jumping through hoops make it more likely that they'll go somewhere else for their fix.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[wolrahnaes]

I don't want to run into problems where "Oh crap, I must have started that game while on my sister's account or xbox, looks like all that playtime gets reset if I want to play it on MY account/xbox"

1. There are no problems moving games between Xboxes.

2. Saves are locked to their associated gamertag. This is designed to solve the "Oh crap, my brother/sister/parent/dog played on my console and erased my f*cking save!" problem. Just create yourself an XBL Silver gamertag, it takes seconds and is completely free, then all your stuff will be safely partitioned away. The 360 can use a USB drive to save, so even if you don't own a 360 at all you can just put your account and gamertag on any cheap USB drive to easily take it between friends houses.

Or maybe that's not the problem, I don't know, because everything gets so freaking out of whack if you don't play the games exactly as you were 'supposed' to play them as defined by the service.

What the fuck are you talking about? Log in to your account, play game any way you feel like.

I also love how it used to be that if I bought something and hooked it up to my television that it was a household purchase. Now? Looks like I'd have to buy every item for each person in my family if they want to enjoy the same game that I have.

And that hasn't changed at all. Purchases are tied both to the account and Xbox that they were bought with, so anyone playing on that Xbox can access the content regardless and that user can access it on any Xbox. It's very well implemented and there's an easy transfer tool to reassign the content to a different console in the event of a dead console or buying a new model.

So no, you're totally wrong if you think you need to buy content once for each person. One console, one purchase, everyone can use it.

Re:GFWL, no thanks

[KDR_11k]

The patching is the biggest issue in my opinion, Steam lets you run the main client in the background and have it download stuff while you do other things on the PC. GFWL requires you to run the game (and I think you can't even minimize it without interrupting the download) while it's downloading the patch as if your computer had no other purpose than displaying the title screen of a game while you wait for a gigabyte or two to pass through your crappy consumer internet connection. The game keeps running but you cannot play it because closing the GFWL overlay aborts the patch download. I srtill wonder why in hell's name publishers voluntarily cripple their games with that garbage.

Wow i must be tired

[Adambomb]

Am I insane or is the woman superimposed on the right hand side of the [weirdly purely flash] Flight site topless with propellers for nipples?

or both?

Re:Wow i must be tired

[Anonymous Coward]

You just made thousands of Flash- and Microsoft-hating nerds knowingly enter a pure-Flash Microsoft site.

Truly well played!

Re:Wow i must be tired

[Anonymous Coward]

Not many people use screen resolutions that low

You'd be surprised.

Re:Wow i must be tired

[Spad]

Half the people I know still use 1024 on 19"+ monitors because otherwise "the screen is too small" for them to read.

Re:Wow i must be tired

[PopeRatzo]

Am I insane or is the woman superimposed on the right hand side of the [weirdly purely flash] Flight site topless with propellers for nipples?

That's nothing. Stare at the picture of clouds opposite the weird lady with propeller-nipples. Keep staring.

After a while, you can clearly see a naked man bending over with his junk hanging out the back.

Uh, nevermind.

Re:Wow i must be tired

[IndustrialComplex]

Have they tried increasing the system DPI (Control Panel > Display > Settings > Advanced > General > Display > DPI setting)?

It works, except when it doesn't, and when it doesn't you have the option of messing with your resolution, or tweaking each program individually (when they don't support it)

Then you end up with a frankenstein of system settings some of which seem to apply, and then Oh my looks like this program started paying attention to the DPI and is now all wonky.

It's just easier to use a lower resolution even though adjusting the DPI is the 'correct' way to do it.

Re:What about Hearts, Freecell and Minesweeper?

[dingen]

Actually Minesweeper has been part of Windows since it was released in 1990's "Microsoft Entertainment Pack" and Hearts was included in 1992's Windows for Workgroups 3.1 as a demonstration of the "for Workgroups" part of the name.

So that's 20 years for Minesweeper and 18 years for Hearts. I don't know when Freecell was first released. It was part of win32s, but I can't find out when the first version of that thing shipped.

AOE MMO

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless it's persistent (which it isn't), how can they claim that it's a "massively multiplayer"? You might as well call any online game a "massive multiplayer" if:

a. It has a game lobby
b. Many people can play online at once.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play my favorite MMO, Counter-Strike.

Re:AOE MMO

[lowlymarine]

Wikipedia, apparently:

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and feature at least one persistent world.

Re:AOE MMO

[Sockatume]

I think the confusion lies in the definitions of persistence. One meaning refers to the world's continued operation when the player is absent, as in WoW, which is the sense you use. However it can also refer to the persistence of player actions, such as the way Halo keeps track of the positions of dead enemies and weapon drops indefinitely. WoW is quite clearly not a very persistent game in that sense, otherwise it'd be a ghost town knee-deep in corpses, which explains the AC's confusion.

That's something they are good at

[Cigaes]

At least, reboots are something Microsoft are very good at.

Games for Windows

[Sockatume]

My understanding, based on an editorial in Edge earlier this year, is that GfW just plain flat-out doesn't work. Not in the sense that its limited user base makes for poor multiplayer or that it has insufficient publisher for its downloadable games service, but in the sense that it does not reliably allow you to download games or play online.

Reboot is such a poor word

[cronius]

The term "reboot" is used to describe something "done again", but I think it's a pretty stupid word to use as it's not descriptive at all. Does my OS or hardware somehow radically change whenever I reboot it? Maybe Windows users experience this, I don't know.

When I first heard the term years ago I immediately disliked it. It feels like someone that don't work with computers as a profession thought that it was "cool" or "trendy" to use "pc terms" outside their original context, so "reboot" was the victim of the day.

< /rant >

Re:Reboot is such a poor word

[srothroc]

The way I see it is that "reboot" and "restart" are pretty much synonymous, so outside of the computer context, people say that they're "rebooting" a show or series. The difference in that area, for me, is that "restarting" implies that there's some kind of continuity -- for example, the modern Doctor Who show builds off of the old one and shares continuity. A "reboot," on the other hand, is a ground-up revamping. It still probably annoys you though.

Re:What about Hearts, Freecell and Minesweeper?

[Kjella]

So that's 20 years for Minesweeper and 18 years for Hearts. I don't know when Freecell was first released. It was part of win32s, but I can't find out when the first version of that thing shipped.

A little bit of digging shows it was later included in the Entertainment Pack 2 which was released in 1991 according to Microsoft's support lifecycle pages. It could not have been earlier than 1990 since that's when Windows 3.0 came out so 19-20 years old. Since it missed EP1, probably 19. And I can't really believe I bothered to go looking.

Re:What about Hearts, Freecell and Minesweeper?

[dingen]

And I can't really believe I bothered to go looking.

I win.

Their own fault in the first place.

[ledow]

I never stopped playing AOE (specifically AOE2:Conquerors). I *DID* stop playing it online because MS just sucked the life out of the multiplayer aspect by locking it to a single vendor for online matchmaking and then destroying that facility when they got bored of AOE.

So, what's here for *me*, someone that wants to play AOE but was forced by Microsoft's enforced-obsolescence to stop playing it online unless I wanted to faff about with third-party software or entering IP addresses? I won't believe it won't happen again, and I don't believe that a new MMO "reboot" will be anywhere near as good as the AOE2:Conq. And are we talking about a monthly subscription model or can I actually *OWN* the game (or at least my copy of it) forever?

In the meantime, playing the classic version over a private VPN it is.

In Soviet Russia,

[smitty97]

You reboot Microsoft! Wait, that happens all over the world, not just Russia

Marketing is exempt from dog food

[Cornelius the Great]

You notice when Microsoft is trying to reach out to a large audience and advertise one of their own products, they don't force Silverlight down our throats?

Re:Games for Windows Live

[bluefoxlucid]

It's particularly sad that PC gaming once meant free of hassle, except perhaps for a CD check. Now it means rootkits and spyware. I have to make sure a game is not sold by Blizzard, is not Steam Powered, and is not part of Games for Windows before I know that I can actually just install and play the game that I paid for.

Yeah I miss the days of Doom and Duke Nukem. Install the game (copies to hard drive), modify my autoexec.bat and config.sys (did this once and added a menu), reboot into Game Mode when I play so I have more than 520kb of conventional (I got up to 740, which is good because Wolf needed 720K and that required some tricks since video sat around 640k). Other than that, sometimes I had to figure with a Setup.exe program or make sure SET BLASTER was right. When I'm done I can reboot into regular mode so Windows has its EMM386.sys and Himem.sys and everything loaded properly, and so my CD driver loads.

It was so easy back then. Nowadays you pop a game in, Windows crashes. You fight with it, it installs, runs, crashes. Update your video card driver, it works but no sound. Update your sound card driver. Fiddle with DirectX. Change some graphics settings and sound suddenly works (WTF?). Now try to uninstall the game and the uninstall fails. Now try to listen to an Audio CD and find out your CD drive is disabled because the uninstall corrupted some weird DRM. Also you have 50 viruses now since the DRM opens a hole in your firewall and lets people remote in and it has bugs and you're now a giant stretched anus waiting for hackers to put it in your ass.

I always loved my NES though. Sometimes I had to reboot it if I unseated the cartridge, but other than that it was just insert cart into deck and press play. Then Sony came up with these CD things for games and it all went down hill with load times and shitty games due to not enough primary storage. The Nintendo 64 could have a 64MB cartridge, which means you could have a 2MB program, 6MB of sound files, and 56MB of level map and textures and models and God knows what else and have it all in one GIANT level (the cartridge is on the memory bus, so everything is effectively "in RAM"). The Playstation had 640MB of storage, but you could load like 2MB into RAM at a time... smaller levels, less detail, load time, etc. And then CDs get scuffed or dirty and read 6 or 8 times before things load, or just fail and the game is dead...

Re:Games for Windows Live

[CronoCloud]

The Playstation had 640MB of storage, but you could load like 2MB into RAM at a time... smaller levels, less detail, load time, etc.

Which is why some PSone games loaded level data on the fly, as needed, as intended. Compare the Spyro games to Mario 64. Some PS2 games do the same thing, ever play EQOA, you'll never see a load screen past boot up unless you directly TP somewhere. You could walk/swim from Fayspires to the Kappa fortress on Odus and never see a single load screen.

Not according to the trailer

[dreamchaser]

According to the trailer it is persistent.