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Nokia Siemens Sued For Providing Monitoring Equipment To Iran

Just over a year ago, we found out that Nokia Siemens provided internet monitoring equipment to Iran. Now, reader Tootech sends in news that the company is being sued by an Iranian journalist who was captured with the help of that equipment. From El Reg: "Isa Saharkhiz went into hiding following Iran's 2009 presidential elections, after publishing an article branding the Grand Ayatollah as a hypocrite who was primarily responsible for vote tallies widely regarded as being fraudulent. According to a complaint filed in federal court in Virginia, officials with the Ministry of Intelligence and Security in Iran tracked him down with the help of cellphone-monitoring devices and other eavesdropping gear provided by Nokia Siemens. 'Defendants knowingly and willingly delivered very capable and sophisticated equipment for unlawful intercepting, monitoring, and filtering of electronic communications ("Intelligence Solutions") to Iranian officials,' the complaint alleged. ... According to the document, Saharkhiz has been severely tortured since his arrest. He was held in solitary confinement for more than 80 days, and his ribs were broken in a struggle during his arrest. The complaint said it may be amended to add as many as 1,500 other political prisoners who are being held under similar circumstances. Additional defendants may also be added."

21 of 275 comments (clear)

  1. Law? by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'Defendants knowingly and willingly delivered very capable and sophisticated equipment for unlawful intercepting, monitoring, and filtering of electronic communications ("Intelligence Solutions") to Iranian officials,' the complaint alleged.

    Not to diminish in any way what this journalist has been through...unlawful where exactly? Iran or the US?

    Sounds a bit like suing Heckler and Koch because they sold a gun to the government that provided it to the cop that used it to shoot you when the situation didn't warrant it.

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    1. Re:Law? by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True, but the quoted text states that it was the electronic monitoring that was unlawful, not the act of exporting the equipment needed to do so.

      Nevertheless, since Iran bashing seems to be the latest trend I'd like to suggest a deal. The US bitches at Iran at for electronic surveillance, and the EU does it for the torture, and we both conveniently ignore our own little forays into these fields.

      --

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    2. Re:Law? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All theoretical ethical stuff aside, it will be interesting to see if a case like this will go forward in a US court.

      US telcomms, whose NSA collaboration almost certainly exposed at least a few people to extralegal detention and torture, were specifically granted immunity for any collaboration that might have occurred.

      While I don't doubt that we'd like another chance to stick it to Iran, and emphasize their repressive-theocratic-hellhole characteristics, I can't imagine the US being too enthusiastic about a precedent that makes corporate collaboration with a surveillance state legally problematic....

    3. Re:Law? by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering we overthrew their democratically elected government in the 50s to put in the Shah as our puppet, one of the worst dictators we could dig up, just so our corporations could get better deals? Yeah I think we really don't have much moral high ground there at this point. Is Iran a brutal place? Yeah, no doubts there. But considering our idea of "democracy" is elect someone we approve of I really don't think we have much moral high ground left in that area at this point frankly.

      In case you don't know and would like to read up here is a good starting point.

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    4. Re:Law? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One country can not be "better" than another.

      Sweden vs the Republic of the Congo. I think you can say one is better.

      Denmark vs Burma. Discuss.

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    5. Re:Law? by maroberts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The quoted text says it was the supply of the monitoring equipment. The actual monitoring took place in Iran and is presumably legal according to the laws of Iran.

      Only the supply of the equipment used to perform the monitoring can be unlawful outside Iran.

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    6. Re:Law? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Considering we overthrew their democratically elected government in the 50s to put in the Shah as our puppet, one of the worst dictators we could dig up, just so our corporations could get better deals? Yeah I think we really don't have much moral high ground there at this point.

      This is an interesting ethical issue. Does everything you've ever done preclude you from every having a moral position in the future? If I robbed a bank in my youth, does that mean I can never say that robbing a bank is a bad thing?

      I'm not inclined to attribute morality to corporate entities or nations, but I'm not sure I accept the argument "You did X, so you can never again hold position Y". Better to accept that nations, like corporations, are designed to do whatever they think is in their best interest at the time. It's what they do. Short of much greater global governance, it's going to stay that way.

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    7. Re:Law? by Nadaka · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its not even that. Our great grandparents made a bonehead mistake 60 years ago by overthrowing Iran.

      The US has some shitty policy and has for a long time, but we are not as much of theocratic, totalitarian, oppressive, surveilance state as Iran is.

      We need to do way better than we are, but on no measure can I say that Iran has any moral superiority.

  2. good for the goose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Until our governments and police forces stop using this invasive technology we can't expect others to do so.

  3. Forum shopping? by jrumney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not that I'm defending Siemens and Nokia for providing spy equipment to a regime known to torture and kill its citizens for exercising political speech, but how exactly does a court in Virginia have jurisdiction over German and Swedish companies for civil damages allegedly sustained in Iran against an Iranian citizen?

  4. Because they can by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, the Iranian government is not going to respect an American court decision. So, they're just trying to get headlines by suing a merchant. Was that equipment under embargo? But wait, an American embargo on Iran is bad because it hurts the common people more than the government. But if there was no embargo then how was it illegal to sell the equipment? I suppose Siemens should have recognized the Iranian government as "evil" and refused to do any business with them on a purely voluntary basis. But then that's racism against Muslims! Can anyone help? I'm so confused.

    --
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    1. Re:Because they can by EmagGeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think the United States can "embargo" a Swedish company from selling things to another country. I am also not sure it's against the law in Iran for the government to intercept any kind of communication. Don't they pretty much have totalitarian rule over there? I thought the government could pretty much do whatever it wanted?

      I don't really understand this case. US Law does not apply in Iran, nor does it apply in Sweden (unless you're an American citizen, in which case you can be charged with breaking US law in another country).

      I think we need more details.

    2. Re:Because they can by c0lo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm so confused.

      Relax, cool down. Nokia-Siemens sold them because every government asks them to; and providing what your customers want is good for business:

      "Western governments, including the UK, don't allow you to build networks without having this functionality."

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    3. Re:Because they can by dunkelfalke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, the US has managed to do it to a Finnish company, so there.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    4. Re:Because they can by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stop trotting out that old "wipe Israel off the map" nonsense. The actual quote was that he hoped for the regime of Israel to fall, a sentiment shared by many rational, sane folk across the world. When you use those untruths is just shows people that you haven't actually read anything on the subject, and that you are in fact just regurgitating what you heard on TV. The "kills and tortures its own citizens" and "trains terrorist organisations" equally applies to the US, too, just in case you missed that lovely part in US history.

  5. They all do it! by bre_dnd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't be naive. Every single telecommunications vendor has tapping capability built into their equipment. Every western government *mandates* that this functionality is built in. It is not the equipment manufacturer who is morally wrong here. If you think it's wrong in Iran, it's wrong in the US or Europe too.

  6. Legal wranglings by captain_dope_pants · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At a rough guess some lawyers are going to make a load of money out of this. So regardless of the final outcome there will be some winners: That's the way it usually works.

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    while (true != false) process_more_stupid_code();
  7. "Lawful Intercept" is required by Terje+Mathisen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are totally right: The LI (Lawful Intercept) interface is a required part of all relevant telecomms standards, i.e. you cannot manufacture/sell a GSM/3G/LTE setup which doesn't have that LI interface.

    Terje
    (Currently working on the architecture of a large national cell phone network.)

    --
    "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
    1. Re:"Lawful Intercept" is required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please don't call it "Lawful Intercept". That's a cheap, whitewashing euphemism dreamed up by toadies. Furthermore, it's deliberately inaccurate, since nothing about the technology itself does anything to guarantee that the use is "lawful". Call it "wiretapping". Or "spying". Or "narcing". But not "Lawful Intercept".

  8. Re:Please remind me... by LingNoi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All completely irrelevant since in the US some americans call their president "a muslim that's going to destroy america" and they're never arrested which is going much further then this journalist did.

    In fact you are just being a hypocrite, if you had posted this from Iran about Iran then you'd be screwed over like the journalist so I don't see how you can draw any comparison between the two.

    All your post really attempts to do is distract people from actual censorship issues and the slashdot mods have bought into it hook, line and sinker.

  9. Re:Please remind me... by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fucked up thing is the first country in the Middle East that offered help to the US was Iran. Iran was absolutely shocked when Bush added them to his "Axis of Evil" in his State of the Union address in 2002, which Bush did simply because you can't have an axis of 2 countries (Iraq and North Korea) and not look like you're bullying them. Iran used to be a very moderate, western country. Women's rights, great economy, progressive thinking, socially moderate, etc. Most Iranians are the same as they were back then, only the powers that be are still reeling from having the democracy overthrown by meddling western powers (US & UK, as we know), which has resulted in this theocracy taking place as the perceived last-gasp of maintaining their autonomy. It's no wonder they are acting the way they are.