Sony Halts Sales of PS3 Jailbreak Dongle

An anonymous reader tips news that "Online Australian retailer Quantronics has been ordered by the Federal Court of Australia, Victoria District Registry on the 26 August 2010 to halt PS JailBreak PS3 modchip sales and distribution." The court order (.DOC) indicates this injunction will hold until a hearing on August 31. Another reader points out related news that a German website claims to have reverse engineered the hack, finding it to be a newly-developed exploit rather than a clone of Sony's JIG module (original in German). Sony has already been banning users of the modchip when detected.

Comments

Sorry Sony ...

[WrongSizeGlass]

Sorry Sony, but you can't stop it now. Next stop: "Jail Break City, where people who bought your crap can enjoy it how they want".

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[MozeeToby]

Jail Break City, where people who bought your crap can enjoy it how they want

Unless of course if 'they want' to log into the PSN or play on Sony's servers. Just saying, there's plenty that Sony can do, especially since this is the only hack available and it can apparently be detected server side.

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[tlhIngan]

Unless of course if 'they want' to log into the PSN or play on Sony's servers. Just saying, there's plenty that Sony can do, especially since this is the only hack available and it can apparently be detected server side.

Which isn't much different from the Xbox360 side of things, really. It's harder for Microsoft to detect you, but do something stupid like play a game before the release date means Microsoft knows your Xbox360 isn't completely kosher. Some lame DVD hacks are also detectable by Xbox Live. Not too sure about the latest JTAG hacks, but I guess a multilayered checksum might also detect it.

But considering most of my PS3 games are single player, and the multiplayer ones I tend to get for Xbox360, seems a perfect way to get repaid for the loss of OtherOS. I finally have a reason to update my PS3.

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[TooMuchToDo]

I bought my PS3 just to be a media center. Plays my DVDs, my Blu-Ray discs, and my Netflix Watch It Now. I could care less if I get banned from PSN. That's what my Xbox360 and Gold account is for =)

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, you need to sign into PSN to use Netflix, so it sounds like you should care if you get banned. Also, if you only use it as a media center, what possible use do you have for jailbreaking?

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[slinches]

Uh, you need to sign into PSN to use Netflix

That's not true. Netflix streaming works without logging into PSN. I have a fat PS3 that I haven't updated (so that I can keep the Other OS option) and I stream movies regularly. Although, I am a bit concerned that they may disable the disks when they release the software version in October. If that requires a firmware update, I may need to jailbreak just to keep Netflix.

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[hairyfeet]

Or you could do what most of the guys I've been talking to did, which is have a cheaper x360 they bought on Craigslist as their "hacked" console, and a regular one they use for XBL. This is why I find it hilarious when the companies talk about the "safety" of consoles compared to PCs, hell look on any Craigslist and you can find tons of prehacked x360s, most with the games preloaded. Hell it don't get easier than that!

I predict the exact same thing will happen with the PS3, with older non hardware compatible PS3s being sold on places like Craigslist prehacked, and then you will keep your original one for PSN, if they as you say even have any games they care to play on PSN, otherwise they can just have a cracked PS3 and keep a clean x360 for XBL along with a cracked x360 for SP. But the days of needing to jump through flaming hoops to crack the thing will soon be over, just as it is already for the x360.

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[Anonymous Coward]

How much less could you care?

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[RockDoctor]

Unless of course if 'they want' to log into the PSN or play on Sony's servers.

Never having seen a PS3 (that I'm aware of), and knowing and caring even less about the product than I do about a random piece of Sony hardware, but this sort-of begs the question of why don't people who want to play on chipped machines raise a rigid digit to Sony again and go an play on someone else's servers? Or even on their own server?

Re:Sorry Sony ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry Sony, but you can't stop it now. Next stop: "Jail Break City, where people who bought your crap can enjoy it how they want".

You know what, guys like you are funny saying Sony makes crap and that they deserve their products to be cracked and exploited for whatever "they are corporate" bullshit insert people like you use to justify their hypocrisy. The truth is people want Sony's products but don't want to pay more than the adoption price of buying their console/handheld. Sure, buying something gives you certain rights to do with it but it also carries responsibilities as well. Think of gun ownership: you could enhance it however which way you want it but you just can't go out and shoot people just because you want to. It's the same thing with this dilemma. Face it, jailbreaking for homebrew has it's merits but the mass of freeloaders hop on the bandwagon to pirate other people's hard work so much so that it might kill the industry in the future if the cost of producing games is too high when a certain technological level is reached. No one thinks that PS3 and its counterparts are the peak of consoles, right? Bottomline, shove your hypocrisy up your keisters pirates.

Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

I still buy your consoles and games beause I enjoy them...I can't escape that. However, I will NEVER forgive you for what you did to Lik Sang. You will forever be bastards because of that.

Oh, and guess what? I buy all your games USED.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[thijsh]

I loved Lik Sang too! :'-(
It's one of the reasons (among many) I have no PlayStation anymore...

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Monkeedude1212]

You mean his sig? His sig that plugs his site? No one else's sig plugs their site? His sig that you can turn off if you don't want to see it? You mean him plugging Kotaku, like kotaku needs plugging? I'm not sure I see your angle.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[WankersRevenge]

It's a sad state of affairs when buying a used game is considered a subversive activity. Every time one of these idiot developers starts talking about how consumers are basically stealing from them for buying a used game I want to hit them in the mouth with a two by four. Here's a thought ... price your games cheaper. When an entertainment product is well over the bar of an impulse buy, then the used market isn't your real problem.

The funny thing ... I left PC gaming because I hated being on the upgrade treadmill. These days, I find myself playing PC games more often because I get more from money. Who would have thought that consumers reward companies that produce a good value?

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean how he spams every story with oneline comments that don't even have much to do with the story.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[mark72005]

The point is, as the original post stated, putting useless one-liner comments just to get his sig on as many screens as possible. Do the majority of the posts add little to the discussion? Do the majority contain some kind of blog promotion, sig included?

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[herojig]

Interesting story. Wonder what impact that has had over the past several years, if any. Scary stuff when gray marketing is attacked, and quashed, no matter what your interests. I am not much of a gamer, but with every Sony product ever owned, I have had problems at the Sony service end. Absolutely abysmal. With other mfgs, it's a different story. I hate to say the Apple word on this site, but the comparison between Apple and Sony is like comparing Singapore Airlines with Jet Blue @ JFK. You get what u pay for these days, I guess...

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[jank1887]

'fuck you sony' seems quite appropriate here. turn off sigs and be quiet. I haven't had them on in... well... forever.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

So tell me how my post in this story, in which I link to Kotaku explaining how Sony fucked over a well-liked privately owned importer that Sony used for its own executives, adds nothing to the discussion.

The story is about Sony halting sales. I posted a link to another story (again, on Kotaku) about Sony halting sales. I fail to see how that is irrelevant.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[MBCook]

Sony has lost a lot of credibility in my eyes due to recent experiences.

I bought a PS3 a few months ago, and it's quite a nice machine... but it has some really odd decisions. You have to have the system on to charge the controllers by plugging them into the system. If you plug them into your laptop instead, they seem to unregister with the system and you have to pair them back up.

Then I decided to buy a game from PSN. I needed the latest firmware, which took a few minutes to download and a few minutes to install. Then I downloaded the game, which would only transfer at about 1.5Mbps, since Sony's servers are slow. Then the game had to install. All told it took 2.5 hours to play, mostly because of the slow download.

Then I saw a game on sale for my PSP that I wanted to play. Patapon 2, only a download. So I went and bought a memory stick for my PSP to hold the game (since my model was from when all games were on discs and they only gave 32MB memory sticks). So I download the new firmware, try to install it... nope. The battery has to be charged.

My battery didn't charge, it's dead because it's 5 years old and never used. Having the system plugged into the wall isn't enough, you have to have a charged battery too.

So I had to buy a new battery. Then I got the firmware installed, downloaded the 250MB game in about a half hour, then it installed for 5 minutes. Now I can finally play it.

These are not ideal customer experiences. I understand the new firmware requirement (especially on my PSP which was about 3 years behind). But my 360 seems to handle the process much better, and downloads games at the fastest speed my internet connection supports. My DS Lite is 3+ years old, can sit on the shelf for months and months and yet the battery will still take a charge.

Sony never had smoothest interfaces, but things haven't always been this bad.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[FauxPasIII]

When all the costs of bringing your product to market are front-loaded, and all the revenue then comes from enforcing artificial scarcity of reproducing the finished product, you're in a very different world from selling manufactured goods. Same thing comes up with pharmaceuticals. I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's certainly an interesting problem.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Fallingcow]

They got their portion of the used sale already; the ability to sell it a game secondhand is valuable, and priced in to the original sale price.

If developers (or distributors) think the ability re-sale is worth more than they're getting for it now, they should raise their prices and see whether consumers agree.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[JustSomeProgrammer]

Its dealing with Sony but it is a bit off topic. That would be like me complaining about how expensive Sony TVs are.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

Fair enough.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the theft of my OtherOS feature, I have purchased *nothing* for my PS3, new or used. I refuse to bolster the any aspect of the PS3 market, until what I paid for has been returned to me.
If SONY has an issue with the direction the aftermarket was taking the OtherOS, they are obliged to either supply the alternate OS, or make the option available as a switch, for those of us comfortable the "security" issue the OtherOS option poses (to them).
SONY doesn't belong in an open market.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

Honestly, we don't really use our PS3 for gaming too much. We own 5 disc-based games for it, and have downloaded three from the PSN (compared to about 15 for the Wii with countless downloads, and about 30 for the 360 with countless downloads).

No, our PS3 is used primarily as a media center. It's a decent gaming machine, but it's a fantastic media center. Of course, TVersity puts the 360 and the PS3 on equal footing in regards to media, but using just the consoles themselves, the PS3 is vastly superior for home theater purposes.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[sonicmerlin]

Not to come across as a corporate shill, but the price of games has not changed over the last 10+ years. Well actually they've *come down* since the atari days. The problem is with games' exponentially rising budgets the industry can't sustain itself. People won't even accept price increases to keep up with inflation. They think games that give them tens of hours of game time and fun are far too expensive relative to a $10-15 movie that gives them less than 2 hours of immersion.

Think about it. $50 spent on a Nintendo game in 1985 (and there were often costlier games) would cost $98.37 today. Looking at a more recent period of time, a $50 PS1 game would in '95 cost 69.71 today. And yet the uproar over the bump up to $60 for current generation games was immense.

The games industry isn't growing its hardcore base anymore. That's why Nintendo shifted its focus to casual gamers. It wasn't about "losing the console wars" for them. They didn't lose any money on the Gamecube or N64. But they were around during the gaming market crash of the early 80's. They see the writing on the wall of the current industry. Look at a game like All Points Bulletin. It was a massive, $100 million MMO that utterly bombed. That kind of loss scares away investors. It leaves a black scar on the industry. Unlike movies, however, aside from MMOs there is no growth potential for hardcore games. You think the Chinese or Indians will ever start paying for games, having been raised on the idea that pirating is the norm? Maybe in 20, 30 years when those countries form a legitimate middle class that doesn't have to spend a month's salary just to buy a decent cell phone, but the industry can't wait that long (in case you're wondering, no I don't believe piracy has an effect on sales in general; most pirates wouldn't have bought the game anyways. This is more a reflection on the difficulty of finding new, affluent markets to purchase such expensive products).

And as for pricing cheaper, even if they did they would eventually be undercut by Gamestop and other used game sellers. Most old games are dropped in price eventually, but people still prefer used because they're almost always cheaper. If there were no way to sell used games, companies would be much more eager to drop prices in order to breath life into the tail of a product's lifespan (just look at Steam for a perfect example of what I'm talking about).

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Trufagus]

He was just making an observation that someone (Pojut) may be in the habit of making short, attention getting comments partially to promote his site. On the Internet, where 90% of content is self promotion, it is a worthwhile thing to consider.

I'm surprised to see everybody dumping on this guy.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

Two things.

1. there is some truth to what the AC said. Most of the time, I try to post comments that contribute to the discussion or provide a perspective on the conversation no one else has mentioned yet...however, there are times where I do indeed post just for exposure.

2. On my site, you will never find any form of advertising. My site is run completely out of pocket with zero intent on making a profit (or even making back the $15 a month hosting fee/yearly registration fee). It's something I do as a way of giving back to the community that has given me so much.

I'm just suprised the AC is offended by the fact that I donate time and money to the culture, and then try to make people aware it exists.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Ironically (as if anyone on slashdot should need to be told this effect) I clicked on his sig which my eyes have been trained to ignore over the years, simply because of the post about it. So even more attention is brought to the sig than normal. Oh and also I like how the comment specifically says "one line" and the post wasn't one line, it was two, and on topic.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[2obvious4u]

Whats a Sony? I've got an X-box 360, DS and a Dell. What do I need a Sony for?

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

If nothing else, for at least this one, solitary thing: Prinny.

That is all.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[hedwards]

Pharmaceuticals is a bit different. They couldn't afford to do things any differently. I suppose the government could pay all the R&D costs and then have the companies be basically just service organizations. Doing the research and producing the ultimate medications on a sort of generic basis. But under the current circumstances there isn't much choice involved.

Console companies on the other hand, have a choice, they don't have to use the system as a loss leader and make it up on the content. In fact given the way that things have been going, perhaps they shouldn't. Perhaps they should just sell the console as unlocked have at them, save the R&D money for more useful pursuits and just acknowledge that used games and homebrew are going to happen whether they like it or not.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Think about it. $50 spent on a Nintendo game in 1985 (and there were often costlier games) would cost $98.37 today. Looking at a more recent period of time, a $50 PS1 game would in '95 cost 69.71 today. And yet the uproar over the bump up to $60 for current generation games was immense.

Physical costs have also plummeted. And the industry has moved to disc-based games. Development platforms cost less (adjusted for inflation.)

The problem is with games' exponentially rising budgets the industry can't sustain itself.

Which comes from people trying to one-up each other. It's a bubble, just like the housing market. The industry is doing this to itself.

As you say, Nintendo saw the writing on the wall and sidestepped the competition. They were agile and continue to make good money. That Sony and Microsoft can't do this isn't really the consumer's fault--yet game devs treat consumers like shit if they even think about buying a game used.

Here's a tip: the secondhand market actually helps stimulate the primary market. The fact that a gamer (or driver, or reader) knows that they can resell their item makes them more likely to buy it at full price. All the while, the producers are building up cred with the people who can't afford to buy things at full price. One day, they will be able to--they won't have to wait for and fight over used games--and then they will become the new primary customers.

But more to the point, this is just more buggy-whip shenanigans. The big production studios don't want to change their ways--they want to continue growing and growing and making bigger and bigger games--and they want to force consumers to change their behavior to suit the old business model. It's pretty much bullshit.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[travisco_nabisco]

I concede that the price of games hasn't kept up with inflation. Though it is not fair to bring that up without mentioning that in most of North America the working wage hasn't kept up with inflation either. So we actually have less disposable income than we did in the late 90's.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[mark72005]

It's a good example of the Streissand effect, in a way.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

It's actually a great example of the Streisand effect...we've gotten over 500 visitors in a single day for only the fifth time since we started the site, and that number is steadily rising. Thanks, random AC who hates the fact that we contribute our time and money to nerd culture!

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[mewshi_nya]

Read this comment as I booted Disgaea 3 for the first time ^_^

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose the government could pay all the R&D costs and then have the companies be basically just service organizations. Doing the research and producing the ultimate medications on a sort of generic basis. But under the current circumstances there isn't much choice involved.

At the moment, governments pay most of the costs of basic research into the important stuff.. and it's handed over to pharma companies to "productize" - so they are service organisations already... when they aren't churning out crap drugs for baldness, erection problems and invented disorders.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Jim Hall]

If you're going to copy/paste your troll posts, at least do yourself the courtesy of updating the games you claim to play. As it is, I don't believe a word you say here. For example, Patapon 2 was released well over a year ago (North America: May 2009) and not "a few months ago" like your post implies. And I know you're in North America, because Patapon 2 was download-only for NA only. So there.

As for the rest of your troll:

Sony has lost a lot of credibility in my eyes due to recent experiences. I bought a PS3 a few months ago, and it's quite a nice machine... but it has some really odd decisions. You have to have the system on to charge the controllers by plugging them into the system. If you plug them into your laptop instead, they seem to unregister with the system and you have to pair them back up.

I call bullshit on this one. I often charge my PS3 controllers using the USB port on my Mac Mini, which also sits next to the television. I've done this with an original model PS3, and a 1-year-old PS3. It doesn't cause the controllers to unregister.

Then I decided to buy a game from PSN. I needed the latest firmware, which took a few minutes to download and a few minutes to install. Then I downloaded the game, which would only transfer at about 1.5Mbps, since Sony's servers are slow. Then the game had to install. All told it took 2.5 hours to play, mostly because of the slow download.

I think your Internet connection is 1.5MBps, because my transfers from PSN have been faster than that.

Then I saw a game on sale for my PSP that I wanted to play. Patapon 2, only a download. So I went and bought a memory stick for my PSP to hold the game (since my model was from when all games were on discs and they only gave 32MB memory sticks). So I download the new firmware, try to install it... nope. The battery has to be charged. My battery didn't charge, it's dead because it's 5 years old and never used. Having the system plugged into the wall isn't enough, you have to have a charged battery too.

FYI, the battery needs to be charged to a certain level because the firmware update needs to complete uninterrupted. It's the firmware. So the concept is if your AC power gets disconnected while running the firmware update, the battery has to have enough left in it that the firmware update will complete before the battery runs out. Yes, the PSP won't let you update the firmware without a decent battery charge (note: doesn't need to be 100%) but it's to keep you from accidentally bricking your PSP.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[xtracto]

Used games...

Game developpers should concentrate on offering new online content which can be purchased by a person currently owning a game.

That way it does not matter if someone re-sells his game ID for "World of Retardcraft" to another person as long as this other person continues paying to access the online content.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[couchslug]

"I can't escape that. "

Which is why your opinion doesn't matter to them, and is the equivalent of saying "I don't like the view from under this queening stool!". :P

"Oh, and guess what? I buy all your games USED."

Indirectly subsidising their business model is still subsidising their business model.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[couchslug]

"Same thing comes up with pharmaceuticals."

"Have some crack, kid!"

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3 games hit the US shelves at $60. That price is fixed it would appear. Why do mega blockbusters that sell a gazilion units on the first days get prices the same as shovelware like movie tie-ins that took about 3 months to make, and the dame price as somewhat depressing title like Heavy Rain that are never going to sell huge numbers. And yet, without fail, they'll each command a $60 sticker.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Winckle]

Not to mention most pharmaceuticals are consumables.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[canajin56]

Yeah, that's basically why I have a permenant boycott of Bioware going on. See, the extra weapons and levels for Mass Effect 2 if you buy it new, that's obnoxious. But, they put a used game salesman character onto the Citadel, who chuckles about what a killing he makes, while the starving developers go out of business. They're not content with always on DRM locking out features if you try to install your game on a second 360, they have to kick us in the balls and spit in our faces, too.

It's not just devs, either. Apparently the folks at Penny Arcade believe that buying a used game is actually worse than pirating, because with piracy you are at least not giving money to anybody, but with a used game you are both stealing AND giving money to a leech.

I asked them why selling a used game should be a crime, but lending a friend a game or a book, which they often portray in their comics, is acceptable. No answer. In publishing "both sides" they only publish comments in agreement, or comments "backing up" used games as evil, but a necessary evil for those on a budget. I also pointed them in the direction of a huge piracy mill that's stealing millions of copies of their precious anthologies. No idea their take on that, but I bet they are contacting their lawyers! Their other blazing hypocracy is that their child's play charity donates games and systems to children's wards across the country. Each child doesn't need to pay for their own copy, the developer only gets paid ONCE (a condition they decry as black market theft) and yet, more than one child gets to play. Outrageous.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[mattack2]

But if you just wait a few months, many/most of the games are cheap new. While I'm "still" buying PS2 games, I will eventually get a PS3, and am seeing PS3 games already in the low $20s in ads. (The Greatest Hits seemed to be stuck at $30 for quite a long time, but now going down to the common $20 price, like the PS2 older-and-Greatest-Hits versions price.)

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[mark72005]

Spam works on a gullible minority. If it didn't, spammers wouldn't spam. You know this as well as anyone.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[KahabutDieDrake]

2x4 huh... I was thinking a used copy of war and peace. Or maybe just start throwing the "horror" section of a used book store at them one by one.

Game developers are pretty much the only assholes out there that can actually say out loud that "first sale" doctrine is 'theft'. The interesting bit here, will be when someone sues them for it, and wins. I'm guessing it won't be too much longer. A nice little class action would go a long ways to put game publishers and developers back in their place. I'll bet gamestop will hire the lawyers if we ask real nice.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

I only post links to either my music or my website when it's pertinant to what's being discussed.

As far as linking to my site in my sig, again, I do it so more people are aware of a free resource. Like I said in a previous post, there isn't a single advertisement on our site, and nothing we review is given to us. We do it strictly to contribute to the culture...despite the fact that it costs us both time and money, it costs the public absolutely nothing.

Whether we get 10 visitors or 10,000, we make exactly $0 off of it.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[KahabutDieDrake]

Game development is no different from Movies, TV shows, Books, Magazines or any number of other products. Just because the cost is front heavy, and the return is effectively only useful in a short window, doesn't make the first sale doctrine any less important. I can buy a book when it comes out, at full price. Read it, and then sell it again. Why should a video game be any different?

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[mark72005]

Money is a great motivator but not necessarily the only one.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Pojut]

You're right...our motivation is to give back to a community that has given us a hell of a lot (including something to bond over, which eventually led to us getting married.) We felt that we've been given far too much by nerd culture without giving anything in return.

Our motivation is nothing more than providing a free service...the same applies to the music I make, which, even if I end up selling one day, will still always be legally available for free.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Gravatron]

Didn't pretty much every game console maker sue them at one point or another? Sony's just the ones who finally killed them.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a PS3 a few months ago, and it's quite a nice machine... but it has some really odd decisions. You have to have the system on to charge the controllers by plugging them into the system. If you plug them into your laptop instead, they seem to unregister with the system and you have to pair them back up.

I call bullshit on this one. I often charge my PS3 controllers using the USB port on my Mac Mini, which also sits next to the television. I've done this with an original model PS3, and a 1-year-old PS3. It doesn't cause the controllers to unregister.

It's true. Hooking the PS3 controllers up to my macbook pro caused them to pair with it. After that even when disconnected for a day, pressing the home button caused it to appear in my mac bluetooth connected devices list instead of powering on the PS3. Pairing it with the PS3 again took about 5 seconds, and tbh I quite like it this way. It proves(ish) that Sony is using off the shelf parts or following a *standard* instead of inventing some proprietary garbage.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Gravatron]

Nintendo has the ability to pull an apple though, that is, they have legions of fans who will buy anything with their name on it, regardless of the consoles ability. the name, plus killer marketing, means they can ship a turd and still sell a million copies. Since most of their major games are first party, they also get huge amounts of cash from those.

On the flip side, Sony and Ms's biggest tend to be third party games, which are less profitable. they also don't have the same name power that Nintendo has.

the industry does need to look at costs though. 30+ mill for a game is completely insane. All those licenses and fees add up though.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Rogerborg]

Here's the bit that makes me laugh. Games company mouthwhores make a statement saying (paraphrased) "Fuck you, used games traders, you God damn thieves", Penny Arcade kicks of a debate to air the issues, it hits Slashdot and we slap our throbbing opinions on the table, and... 99% of used game traders don't give a Goddamn. 99% of them don't know we're talking about this, don't know there even is a debate, and wouldn't care even if they did know.

So, I guess "Fuck you, Sony" is the implicit position of 99% of traders, and there's not one damn thing Sony, or EA or Nintendo or anyone else can do about it. Not. One. Damn. Thing.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[MBCook]

It's not a troll, and it's not a copy and paste. I wrote "Then I saw a game on sale for my PSP that I wanted to play", and that's what happened. When Patapon 2 came out, I didn't bother, and hadn't gotten around to playing it. The price drop to $8 was on the Playstation blog) on the 16th as a "Back to School" deal.

My PS3 controller seems to pair with my MacBook Pro 2010 when I plug it in, or at least lose it's PS3 pairing. It's perfectly reproducible for me.

My internet connection is a 6Mbps (see later in the post) DSL line. That was my experience, and Ars Technica had a simmilar experience with slow download speeds and the problem of firmware updates.

I understand firmware needs to complete or my device will brick, but I want to do the update on the AC adapter. I haven't run into a device that isn't happy to have the AC for a firmware update before. I did notice it doesn't need to be full. It was happy at the 70% or so my new batter was when I opened it.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

On the flip side, Sony and Ms's biggest tend to be third party games, which are less profitable. they also don't have the same name power that Nintendo has. /quote.

I would say that this is irrelevant, since Sony and MS aren't the ones complaining about second-hand sales. At least, they aren't doing so particularly vocally.

This most recent round of "Don't buy used games" is coming from a publisher. They approve the budgets, to be sure, and try to set the focus of the games. THQ, the most recent complainant, has several series under their belts. Off the top of Wikipedia, they have:

Destroy All Humans
Company of Heroes
Broken Sword
Red Faction
Tak

as well as several licensed properties:
WWE (a huge number of titles)
Sonic the Hedgehog
Spongebob
Scooby Doo
Power Rangers
Hot Wheels
Bratz

If they can't get one of those franchises nearly as popular as the small set of Nintendo's, I think there's a problem with their business strategy. The reason Nintendo has their fans is because of their reputation. They produce great games that people want, and the rare stinker doesn't change that. In fact, it may well be that their focus on a few franchises is, in part, why they consistently make good games. When you spread yourself thin, you tend to focus less on any individual game and are more likely to turn out stinkers that people don't buy.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

Games absolutely are different than movies at least, which have a theater period where there can not be a used market (outside of bootlegging, I suppose) to recoup their initial investment before the DVD sales begin. Games don't have that.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[PhunkySchtuff]

... Kotaku explaining how Sony fucked over a well-liked privately owned importer that Sony used for its own executives...

But was it Sony purchasing the items as a company, for their execs, or was it the execs purchasing items for themselves?

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[ZosX]

I wouldn't possibly leave a one liner just to draw people to my site......

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[cbhacking]

I don't read PA regularly, but I'm going to have to ask for a citation of your claim that they are anti-used-game-sales. That's not something I've ever noticed them taking a stance on directly, but if anything I'd expect them to support it.

So... link please?

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently the folks at Penny Arcade believe that buying a used game is actually worse than pirating, because with piracy you are at least not giving money to anybody, but with a used game you are both stealing AND giving money to a leech.

I don't quite know where you got that from.

Oh wait, I get it. I see http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/8/25/ what you mean. However, I feel you're not reading it with an open mind.

Tycho states the following.

If I am purchasing games in order to reward their creators, and to ensure that more of these ingenious contraptions are produced, I honestly can't figure out how buying a used game was any better than piracy. From the perspective of a developer, they are almost certainly synonymous.

I can see why you'd construe that to mean "PENNY ARCADE HAET PIRATE AND U R PIRATE." (Yes, yes, I know mocking his position by portraying him as a braying idiot is infantile. I do it anyhow.) However, if you pay attention to his words he states that "If" you purchase games to reward their creators, then it's synonymous to piracy, *especially* to the developers. He hasn't actually stated that it is or isn't his opinion. He appears to understand, however, that by buying games used you are hurting the developers. This is absolute fact. Or is it? I go over my confusion on this far below. Anyhow.

In his post on the following day (today), he clarifies his position for those who took issue.

People who buy used games are not pirates, by definition. Used games (used everything, really) are and will continue to be a legal and protected form of commerce. Other industries have done what they can to co-opt, destroy, or harvest those markets, but their existence is settled law. What I have said is that the end result of that purchase from a developer perspective must be indistinguishable. Isn't it? That is the question I couldn't answer. I still can't answer it. And because I couldn't, I had to change the way I invested my leisure dollar.

He understands it isn't piracy. He clarifies this for the people who couldn't pick that up from his original post. He understands that, y'know, the market of used games (primarily GameStop) is a powerful machine, voraciously feasting on the blood and leavings of the developers and gamers alike. He knows that it's legal, but he hammers in his assertion that, despite its legality, *this isn't a good thing for the industry* .

selling a used game should be a crime, but lending a friend a game or a book, which they often portray in their comics, is acceptable

He...really, must you take such a polarized view? Tycho didn't say it must be a crime. He's just saying that it negatively impacts the industry. He's saying it's not a good thing. This isn't the same as saying it should be illegal. As for the disparity between the used game market and the lending of books or libraries, I don't know. I'm sure Tycho struggles to codify his beliefs for the masses, but he, and you, must agree on this absolute fact.

Used Games don't give the industry money. (again, I examine this below)

No idea their take on that, but I bet they are contacting their lawyers!

I don't believe working yourself up into a froth over something you have "no idea" about is a good thing.

Their other blazing hypocracy is that their child's play charity donates games and systems to children's wards across the country. Each child doesn't need to pay for their own copy, the developer only gets paid ONCE (a condition they decry as black market theft) and yet, more than one child gets to play. Outrageous.

Gott in himmel, you're calling their charity a hypocrisy? I just... I can't...

It would be very easy to just fall back on ad hominem and wildly polarized attacks, but I'll try to keep this civil.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[drinkypoo]

I still buy your consoles and games beause I enjoy them...I can't escape that.

You are a pathetic excuse for a human being. Fuck you for helping Sony continue to be evil. You are partly responsible for Sony killing this modchip. You will be partly responsible for the next Lik-Sang.

Oh, and guess what? I buy all your games USED.

At least that's something. You have to also only buy them when nobody else is buying them, though, or else you will just lead someone to a new sale when they could otherwise have been satisfied with used. The only way to make sure not to produce profit for Sony is to not even buy a PS3 until the PS4 comes out, and to buy everything at Flea Markets and yard sales. I have an Xbox 360, but you can bet your ass I bought it used and well into the lifecycle. And, no, I don't have Live Gold. Which is a bummer, because I'd like to use Netflix on the 360 instead of the PC I've had to connect to the TV. Such is life.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[drinkypoo]

After that even when disconnected for a day, pressing the home button caused it to appear in my mac bluetooth connected devices list instead of powering on the PS3. Pairing it with the PS3 again took about 5 seconds, and tbh I quite like it this way. It proves(ish) that Sony is using off the shelf parts or following a *standard* instead of inventing some proprietary garbage.

It proves no such thing because the home button is not part of the bluetooth spec. It would make more sense if pressing the home button would reassociate it to the PS3, and turn it on. Microsoft's use of non-bluetooth is annoying, but at least the button always turns on my 360, even if I've plugged it into my netbook to recharge it.

Note that the PS3 bluetooth remote control is NOT a standard HID device. So really, Sony uses standards when they are convenient, and shits on them every other time. It cannot have escaped your notice (or perhaps it is, since you laud Sony for following standards) that Sony creates a new "standard" every time they get any chance... Let's not forget Memory sticks, or ATRAC3.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[drinkypoo]

He appears to understand, however, that by buying games used you are hurting the developers. This is absolute fact. Or is it? I go over my confusion on this far below. Anyhow.

It's not absolute fact, without getting into your confusion (an appropriate name, having tried to read those paragraphs) the problem with your idea is that many people simply will not buy something they cannot resell. If there's no used market, I can't resell it. Further, there are many people who will never buy a game new. These people still indirectly help produce revenue for the publisher, because without them some people wouldn't buy games at all. There will always be games which can be resold, and there will always be people who only buy those games, and always be people who only buy games used... Unless, of course, the whole process is somehow prevented technically or legally. (good luck)

I bought one Steam-powered game, Half-Life 2. Not only was it not anywhere near equal to the hype, but I can't resell it. I will never buy another Steam-powered game unless it comes with a coupon for a free blowjob.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[sonicmerlin]

That's true, but more a function of the weakening of labor unions and the conservative shift of the populace.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[sonicmerlin]

Physical costs have also plummeted. And the industry has moved to disc-based games. Development platforms cost less (adjusted for inflation.)

How do you think the physical cost of a PS1 disc compares to a modern-day Blu-Ray or DVD?

Which comes from people trying to one-up each other. It's a bubble, just like the housing market. The industry is doing this to itself.

Trying to "one-up" the competition is... being competitive. A bubble implies an industry is much more highly valued than it actually is. I really don't think that's the problem. Even EA recently came out and said that game development budgets have peaked. $100 million seems to be the maximum in their minds for the time being.

Here's a tip: the secondhand market actually helps stimulate the primary market. The fact that a gamer (or driver, or reader) knows that they can resell their item makes them more likely to buy it at full price.

And who buys those used discs? Potential customers whose money could have gone to the game developers (who would have lowered prices if there were no resellers, as they do on Steam).

All the while, the producers are building up cred with the people who can't afford to buy things at full price. One day, they will be able to--they won't have to wait for and fight over used games--and then they will become the new primary customers.

Building up cred? Do you live in a fantasy world or something? Why wait and fight over used games when they can buy them on the cheap for brand-new, like on Steam? No resellers means cheaper prices overall.

That Sony and Microsoft can't do this isn't really the consumer's fault--yet game devs treat consumers like shit if they even think about buying a game used.

I don't appreciate the focus on casual gamers Nintendo has taken with the Wii. I enjoy the visual stimulation of increasingly beautiful games. Yes gameplay is of primary importance, but visuals add to the immersion and overall enjoyment for me and many others.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[sonicmerlin]

Right, and that explains why they were so dominant during the N64 and Gamecube eras. Oh wait...

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[mjwx]

The funny thing ... I left PC gaming because I hated being on the upgrade treadmill. These days, I find myself playing PC games more often because I get more from money. Who would have thought that consumers reward companies that produce a good value?

Besides that, the more games you buy the cheaper it gets. New release PC games are A$20 cheaper then their console counterparts due to license fees paid per unit. A top of the line gaming PC costs A$1,500 where as an Xbox costs A$450 and PS3 costs A$600. If you buy 50 games in the same life span of a console you get your money back (1.4 games per month over a 36 month period and a top of the line gaming PC will last 3 years easy). Not to mention things like Steam and Impulse which sell some games for as little as A$30 a few months after release. Expansion packs and Expand-alones that cost A$40-50. Plus there is the constant nickle and diming for DLC which never took off on the PC. No Xbox-Live subscriptions either.

It ends up cheaper for me to be a PC gamer, because I game a lot.

I do upgrade my PC every 2 years (and the old one goes to family, housemate ect...) but most of my games do not require the ridiculously powerful rig I have (but I have the cash to waste). Some of my friends who have kids have become what I call "last years" gamer. They stay behind new releases by a year, thus they buy cheaper hardware and can run games as fast as they did on my high end rig, just one year later. They also pay about 1/3 of the full price for games.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

I see what you did there. You're the AC who complained about your comment just to spark off a thread about you and your site so you could get more attention. You attention whore, you.

Disclaimer: I may or may not be joking, I'm not quite sure.

Re:Fuck you, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

What people don't get is that piracy drives games' costs up. What was said below about a lot of the costs being frontend etc is also true but the entire sophistry surrounding jailbreaks such as keeping manufacturers like Sony honest is bullshit. People just do not want to go the legal route of purchasing games at the prices they want by waiting for them as is the system that has been around like forever. Hence, PIRACY.

France

[Hatta]

They should relocate to France. French courts have already ruled circumvention devices legal when there is no other way to run your own software on your machine.

Re:France

[Monkeedude1212]

Yeah but then you have to learn French, and you're also stuck living in France.

Some things just aren't worth it, mate.

Re:France

[VGPowerlord]

They should relocate to France. French courts have already ruled circumvention devices legal when there is no other way to run your own software on your machine.

How would they help? Sony is blocking the importation of them into Australia, and will do so in any other country that lets them (US for sure, and likely most of Europe and Canada as well).

Besides, Sony will continue to ban people from PSN when they detect it, simply because it violates the PSN ToS. And yes, that's ToS, not EULA, as PSN is not a requirement for PS3 owners.

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

This comment is full of win.

Re:France

[debile]

Universal health care, cure French girls, good restaurants, great culture (ok ok immigration problems but hey, habla espagnol?)

France is not as bad as depicted, especially when you compare CURRENT standards of living in the US, not the ones that were true 5-10 years ago

Re:France

[IndustrialComplex]

Universal health care, cure French girls,

Why? Are they sick?

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

Universal health care, cure French girls, good restaurants, great culture (ok ok immigration problems but hey, habla espagnol?)

France is not as bad as depicted, especially when you compare CURRENT standards of living in the US, not the ones that were true 5-10 years ago

If we cure French girls, do we just call them girls?

Re:France

[mark72005]

Well, it seems to be France has much better leadership than we've been dealing with for the last several years. Especially now.

Re:France

[Giometrix]

Universal health care, cure French girls, good restaurants, great culture (ok ok immigration problems but hey, habla espagnol?)

France is not as bad as depicted, especially when you compare CURRENT standards of living in the US, not the ones that were true 5-10 years ago

Except that based on other comments he's made, I don't think he's American, so it's irrelevant what American standards are...

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but then you have to learn French, and you're also stuck living in France.

Some things just aren't worth it, mate.

Say fasile, mon frayer. Ay tudie avek "babelfish" ayt voos pearles frenchsais trays bonne. Jaime set lawng.

(What I said is mad funny if you speak both languages.)

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

(What I said is mad funny if you speak both languages.)

Confirmed.

Re:France

[Monkeedude1212]

Oh I know, I just like to hate on the French because I am Canadian, thus forced to try and learn the language for half a dozen years of my life despite whether I want to or not (and they're forced to try English whether they want to or not, so its a mutual dislike for each other). I wouldn't normally hold a grudge but the drivers in Quebec (mostly Montreal though) are quite possibly the worst drivers on the planet. The stop sign is just a suggestion over there.

None of that really has anything to do with France, in fact, I think the French don't like Quebec either, for butchering their language, but its all tomato tomahto in a general sense so all french get tossed in together. Is that fair? meh, C'est la vie.

Re:France

[sonicmerlin]

What kind of disease do French girls have, and why would I want to cure them anyways?

Re:France

[Surt]

Universal health care, cure French girls,

Why? Are they sick?

Nah, cure in the baking sense, because if you don't, you really don't want to cannibalize one. Too many diseases, plus you really need to get all that hair off to make them at all appetizing.

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

the best things about french girls is not the way they look
it is the way they fuck

Re:France

[2obvious4u]

At least the French are friendly to Nuclear Power. Bonjour, Comment êtes-vous?

Re:France

[WaroDaBeast]

DISCLAIMER: I'm a native French speaker and a former language student.

I hafta agree that French is a PITA to learn. I would say that it's not consistent enough. There are so many exceptions to the exceptions of French grammar and spelling rules that... It just feels like one of those times when you try to compile some weird and/or complex piece of software yourself, and your OS keeps telling you you need yet another dependency. But yeah, that was mostly about written French, 'cause spoken French is much easier — no, those weird-sounding phonemes you can learn how to produce; it just takes practice and a good phonetics handbook.

Besides, you should never forget that the entire French territory is much bigger than most people think http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Outre-mer_en_sans_Terre_Adelie.png (alright, almost no one lives in Clipperton and French Southern and Antarctic Lands, I'll give you that, but every other overseas territory is inhabited). Just don't go to Réunion if you hate volcanoes and cyclones — naaah, they're not as dangerous as you might think. ;)

Re:France

[dubbreak]

in fact, I think the French don't like Quebec either, for butchering their language..

As I assume the Brits aren't huge fans of Texans.

When I was in highschool I went to France with my remedial Canadian school system "French" (every useless noun you could ever learn, but not enough verbs to have a proper conversation). I was able to understand the French people no problem. They speak clear, slow, enunciate.. honestly it's a beautiful language.

Now compare that to the Québécois. Messy, fast, slurred with lots and lots of slang. To me it's like ear rape by comparison. They're shoving their dirty words in your ears as fast and hard as they can.

Re:France

[WaroDaBeast]

Ah, didn't know you spoke French, which explains my... explanation above. Well... Quebec is worse when it comes to French! They added a new spelling for female writers ("auteure") and you'll get sued if you don't spell it "correctly." I wonder if people ask you for the correct spelling everytime you use that word up there, especially considering how much Quebeckers love using anglicisms, such as, "C'est très rough."

I'd say it's normal that you don't like a language that was foisted on you by language Nazis.

Re:France

[ViViDboarder]

If it allows homebrew then I think it'd fall into the new protections in the USA too now. I'm sure you probably saw the post about jailbreaking iPhones becoming "legal." I'm not sure, but is this case over the cracking of DRM or because Sony is claiming they are using propriety code without permission?

Re:France

[xtracto]

Forget all that irrelevant minor shit you mention... the *real* reason would be 30 paid vacation days each year and 35 hour week-work.

I am currently living in working in Germany and even so, I feel like my colleagues in France are *always* in vacation

Re:France

[WaroDaBeast]

Aah, where I my mod points when I need 'em? :'D

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

Just be a bigger grammar Nazi and they will surrender the point in no time. :)

Re:France

[edxwelch]

No need for that. They already have a French distributor:

http://www.foxchip.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&keywords=ps+jailbreak&x=0&y=0

In fact they have several dozen distributers around the world.

Re:France

[negRo_slim]

Universal health care, cure French girls, good restaurants, great culture (ok ok immigration problems but hey, habla espagnol?)

You forgot the massive amount of intolerance.

Re:France

[WaroDaBeast]

Oh, come on... French being surrenderers is as true as Belgians being idiots — the French crack jokes on Belgians as they would do on blondes. It stems from the fact that "they let the Germans drive through their country without doing anything twice."

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

France is not as bad as depicted, especially when you compare CURRENT standards of living in the US, not the ones that were true 5-10 years ago

I second that. Americans who hate France have never been to France, or if they did, they spent their entire time at McDonald's or Euro Disney in blind ignorance. It seems we as Americans live life and hope to get rich while the Frenchmen instead choose to live a rich life. Most Americans also can't seem to remember that France is our oldest ally. Instead they get upset that they don't parrot our actions and beliefs in the same way Australia and Great Britain do. I for one would prefer a friend who told the truth as they saw it, instead of some yes man that will happily watch me walk of a cliff.

Okay, you can mod me way off topic now

Re:France

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no Idea why they pick on Australian businesses - probably because Australian courts are stupid.
At least the French ask 'is there any other way' test, before ruling - which is the right thing.
Fact: Due to Australia's 6% Chinese speaking population, all these 'devices' somehow get in, and sold everywhere - local flea market, car boot sales, and kids at school marketing to other kids - cheap.

Anything imported and sold via a distributor is marked up 100-400%. Shutting them down will just encourage MORE direct imports, with some of the vendors throwing in a free disk. Oh, and now the crack is broken, hardware ids etc, it is clear Sony has created an all or nothing product the denies fair use by design.

Re:France

[badkarmadayaccount]

I agre with you, but those two cases aren't the best examples. A lot of those roma are form Bulgaria, my homeland - not that I have anything against any one ethnic, but most of them are like locusts - nothing of use is left behind them - robbery, rape, arson, vandalism - you name it - been there, done that, for them. Their culture is a parasitic one, not that all of them are - just most. Banning burkas is a good move in favour of islamic women - do you really think most of them like it, or know better - no, they are treated as livestock by all the men in their lives, and that is enforced via a death penalty for daring demostrate being human and having rights. What of the women who truly wish to hide their faces - how about wearing a hoodie+scarf? Same function. thing is there is no way to brake the cycle of their anti human culture wthout making elements of it illicit. Just posting opinion and personal experience, not flamebait.

Title?

[Straterra]

Am I the only one who read the title and thought that Sony was originally selling them, and then ceasing the sale of them?

Re:Title?

[Anonymous Coward]

Common Sense - You Lack It.

WTF?

[Ironhandx]

Right, so Sony had almost exactly what they wanted in regards to control over their system. Then they decided that "almost" wasn't good enough and now they're knee deep in the shit storm they started and trying to litigate their way out of it. Its costing them in company rep and in their pocket books with legal fees.

I hope the industry learns something from this, but sadly it probably won't.

Re:WTF?

[Surt]

I'm 100% sure they'll learn the lesson: you can successfully stop widespread distribution of hacks that jailbreak your system, and laugh all the way to the bank when no one cares and buys your system at christmas anyway.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir are a clueless cretin if you actually believe this dongle wouldn't be on sales had it not been for Sony removing OtherOS.

This dongle is for piracy, nothing else....

Simple as that, it does not allow you to boot Linux, and has no legitimate purpose. The backup excuse does not wash either, as Blu-Ray disks are not scratchable like DVD is.

Re:WTF?

[Swarley]

Blu-ray discs are TOTALLY scratchable. Worse than DVDs actually. Netflix released their data on it and found that Blu-ray discs are damaged far more often than DVDs suffering the same treatment in their envelopes and by their customers. Other than that, I mostly agree with you. Backups is code for piracy for 99.5% of the people claiming it as fair use. Especially considering Sony has been pretty progressive lately about releasing formerly disc only games as pure download and install versions. It's not much, but it's progress...

Re:WTF?

[mlts]

Devil advocate here:

Has Sony lost any real battles fought over the PS/3? A guy found a way to the hypervisor, so they zapped the Other OS feature. Someone else has a jailbreak dongle which got stomped out of existence.

I don't see anywhere in this matter where Sony is out any significant profits whatsoever. So far, having the most locked down platform with no usable cracks happening for almost five years, and when one does appear, siccing the lawyers and nuking it from orbit gets rid of it, seems to be a very successful business model. No JB-ed PS3s, no piracy.

So far, what Sony has displayed to the world, and what other companies are emulating is that locking down a device is extremely profitable. Until this fact is changed, we will be seeing more and more devices, be it smartphones, tablet PCs, TVs, and perhaps soon, computers end up walled gardens.

Re:WTF?

[Ironhandx]

Except for the fact that sony has lost an absolute truckload of money on the PS3 in general. These little bits are just adding insult to injury.

http://kotaku.com/5018899/sony-lost-over-3-billion-to-ps3-cost-pricing-imbalance

3 billion and thats from back in 2008. The thing only started turning a profit q2 2010 so tack on whatever was lost in the in between time, and sony is still lagging as the 3rd most popular console on a contest field of 3. This is the furthest thing from a successful business model.

Re:WTF?

[mlts]

True, but they have lost nothing for having such a locked down platform. The fact that they have had -zero- piracy on the PS3 for years is something which draws the PC gaming companies to their platform like flies to fresh meat.

Unfortunately, these days, there is nothing a company will lose by having a locked down platform and everything to gain. Which is ironic. One of the reasons Sony lost the MP3 player game is because they had such Draconian DRM. This caused people to flee from Sony to first Creative, then Apple

Re:WTF?

[Schadrach]

If I were willing to lay down the coin for a PSJailbreak, I know of a few games in my collection that would immediately get run through the Backup Manager if only because they have "unpleasant" load times and being on a HDD would vastly improve them. The lack of any other homebrew at this point makes it less attractive though, and by the time there is significant other homebrew it'll be cloned and cheap.

It's actually a bummer that it's not a reverse engineered JIG stick though -- if it were it would be essentially unpatchable, as the JIG is used to boot the thing in a factory repair mode, one that used for things like repairing a machine that has corrupted firmware. To do what they do with it, it has to work in a manner that circumvents the firmware.

I expect they'll start bans based on the application ID of the Backup Manager since that's the most they can do without a firmware update (and noone using one will update firmware). Which will in turn lead to it stealing it's signature from another app, much like DSi flash carts do (I know mine claims to be Danny Phantom).

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe in your astroturfing dribble you failed to notice that this is in fact the first homebrew title. Did you not see the backup manager software in action? That means other applications will also run using the same technique.

As for legitimate, it clearly does have use for backups. How many people use CDs rather than some for of media player hooked up to their amp/receiver? It's about convenience. Same with games. Had sony bothered to let us users install games to harddrives, with very basic salted hashed keys for launching for their anti-piracy crap, a number of people buying USB vector hacks wouldn't bother. The only people buying such devices for piracy aren't going to be buying more games without it. Thus the net sales of games isn't going to change.

Sony are probably loving it that this is out. First, it means they'll sell more consoles as people will think lots of free games, and secondly, online gamer pirates will buy a second system for online gaming, just as they do now with the 360.

Re:WTF?

[Ironhandx]

The thing you're missing is that the consumers are still flocking to the systems with less DRM. Sure Sony maintains a market share, mostly through virtue of its locked down platform attracting developers, but I would argue locking it down more when they reached an equilibrium that could eventually push more publishers onto their platform and have them maintain consumer market share only puts them in a position where they have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

A 100% secure gaming system with awesome graphics and nearly every major publisher on board is still going to be a failure if theres an alternative that has games that are "good enough" for most gamers and less of a pain in the ass to deal with so gamers flock to the other platform. Or to put it better, they can have everything else, but if they don't have consumers they're screwed anyways.

Re:WTF?

[X.25]

You sir are a clueless cretin if you actually believe this dongle wouldn't be on sales had it not been for Sony removing OtherOS.

This dongle is for piracy, nothing else....

Simple as that, it does not allow you to boot Linux, and has no legitimate purpose. The backup excuse does not wash either, as Blu-Ray disks are not scratchable like DVD is.

You can eat a dick. You don't tell me what the fuck I do with my console, that I paid with my own money. If I want to fucking burn it, I will. If I want to insert a PSJailbreak in it, I will.

And you go and fuck yourself, along with your "I know what's best for you" logic.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's even worse..even a light TOUCH to a blu-ray and it won't read at all in the ps3! (tiny little smear, any smudge whatsoever on the back, even if you can barely see it) Gotta buff the back extremely lightly with a very soft cloth before putting it back in... I treat my blu-ray disks extra carefully due to that...it's obvious that the slightest bit of damage and they cannot recover at all.

Re:WTF?

[PRMan]

Actually, as a Netflix subscriber, I can tell you that the big problem with Blu-Ray discs is not scratches (they are actually more resilient to a scratch than DVD, presumably because of even greater error correction), but they get a ¼" crack near the edge when they go through the postal sorter.

I have had about 15 discs that I have had to return because of this problem. The Netflix rep said that our post office was one of the worst offenders at putting the discs through the machine which they have contractually agreed not to do. But the local post office attendants in my city are the biggest idiots I have ever had the displeasure of interacting with as a customer. And by idiot, I mean the classic definition. These people are WAY below 3 digits if you know what I mean.

Re:WTF?

[tophermeyer]

You don't tell me what the fuck I do with my console, that I paid with my own money. If I want to fucking burn it, I will. If I want to insert a PSJailbreak in it, I will.

Go ahead, nobody's going to stop you from sticking whatever you want wherever you want. Sony is preventing the distribution of a device that solely exists to pirate games that they make money on. I don't know what type of work you do, but if someone started selling a device that would allow them to obtain your product without paying you any money you would damn sure do everything you could to stop it.

Do whatever you want with your PS3. If you've got one of these things, go ahead and do whatever you want with that to. Nobody, not even Sony, will come into your home and prevent you from sticking that device into whatever orifice you choose.

Re:WTF?

[tophermeyer]

I always thought PS3 titles were decent with their DRM. It's there, but most of it works pretty passively behind the scenes and I don't have too deal with it. I think people are turning away from troublesome DRM that makes legitimate copies hard to play (like EA and Blizzard requiring constant connection to a server). If I put a PS3 game into my PS3, it just works. That functionality is really attractive.

If their DRM starts to get too nutty then I can see the situation you describe developing. I've never had problems with DRM on a PS3. Whatever they are doing, they are doing it right (for me).

Re:WTF?

[BitZtream]

What will the industry learn? That it can't stop a few pirates who weren't buying the games anyway, but they can scare the general public into not breaking the law?

You guys always act like this sort of shit kills companies but you utterly miss the fact that 99.9999% of the population doesn't give a flying fuck about nerd rage against the machine.

From your perspective, Sony lost. From their perspective, they won.

As long as it stays a relatively low occurrence crime committed by a tiny select few of the population that weren't going to give them money anyway, they've won by getting exactly what they wanted, and you've lost because your self righteousness causes you to limit your available options so you can 'show them'.

Either way, I doubt Sony will notice the slashdot rage.

Re:WTF?

[Ironhandx]

Some of the PS3 titles are already shipping with that sort of DRM though, X360 titles as well.

Basically though, a lot of these folks don't realize that people want their modern consoles to play old games, and theres a good sized market that want to run NES/SNES etc emulators, I happen to be one of them. Obviously not everyone is going to be a part of this market, but you lose that market when the system is as locked down as the PS3 and you lose any word of mouth and get some negative word of mouth advertising from that group.

They may have friends that probably won't use emulators much but want to have the ability to, or simply recommend a different system based on the fact that the PS3 can't run emulators anymore. Sure it won't turn everyone they know, but it will cause more lost sales. Its a bit of a trickle effect and theres a lot you can do with a video game system to combat piracy that people will put up with, but there is a limit and Sony is pushing past the boundaries of that limit in many ways.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

All this action serves to do is to escalate the matter. Some enterprising soul found a way to create a hardware/software combo to open up the PS3, Sony uses a lawyer to kill this. The next logical step might be to release the designs for the hardware, along with the source code for the software, into the public domain, or maybe Wikileaks?. If EVERYONE with a soldering iron, and little skill, can start cranking these things out, it won't really much matter WHAT Sony does, will it? Once the information is out there, it's out there, censorship be damned.

Re:WTF?

[Ironhandx]

I'm not really limiting my options, I haven't purchased a Sony product since my PS2 years ago for multiple reasons, not just this sort of thing.

I realize that Sony thinks they won, but they really haven't. They've lost money on the console and whatever you may think about the "slashdot rage" it will translate into more negative PR and more lost sales when they really really need to make their platform more popular, not less.

They've already lost a small fortune on the PS3 though so you're probably right and they won't notice the small blip.

As an aside however theres more and more mounting evidence(another slashdot story thats on the front page for one) that these guys are purely pandering to their shareholders and not listening to their own industry experts when they make these sorts of decisions. Something like this definitely won't kill a company that large overnight, or even ever, but it certainly won't help it either.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I really doubt that will happen. Sony is exceedingly good at security, and their ATRAC (ATRAC3 especially) DRM has not ever been cracked. It has been analog-holed, but that causes a generation transcoding loss.

As for soldering, good luck. Any chips DRM related will be well epoxied onto the motherboard. It takes far more than a soldering iron to remove those from a board and uncap them. This is something very few people have outside of a chip fab.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Sony didn't act quickly enough. Apparently some of those jailbreak dongles got out and are being reverse-engineered. Give it a few months. Sony gets to play whack-a-mole now.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or push out a flash update that people are forced to download to continue being on PSN. Problem solved.

Re:WTF?

[bruno.fatia]

You sir are a clueless cretin if you actually believe this dongle wouldn't be on sales had it not been for Sony removing OtherOS.

This dongle is for piracy, nothing else....

Simple as that, it does not allow you to boot Linux, and has no legitimate purpose. The backup excuse does not wash either, as Blu-Ray disks are not scratchable like DVD is.

You can eat a dick. You don't tell me what the fuck I do with my console, that I paid with my own money. If I want to fucking burn it, I will. If I want to insert a PSJailbreak in it, I will.

And you go and fuck yourself, along with your "I know what's best for you" logic.

Totally agreed. I scrapped Apple's logo from my iPhone and everybody said I was nuts. "WHAA THE HELL now it looks like iFone China(R)" But I said fuck it it's mine if I want to drive over it with a truck I will.

Anyways, it's still up to them to ban and block you from using their PlayStation Network.

PS: I also own a ps3.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Backups is code for piracy for 99.5% of the people claiming it as fair use. Especially considering Sony has been pretty progressive lately about releasing formerly disc only games as pure download and install versions. It's not much, but it's progress...

so the legit 0.5% have to re-buy what they owned with no chance of resale? kind of justifies the rest pirating, imho.

iTunes and Palm Pre

[gnasher719]

This reminds me of the situation with iTunes and the Palm Pre. Basically, the Palm Pre had a USB interface that claimed there was an Apple iPod, so that iTunes would transfer music to the device. Then Apple added code to iTunes to detect devices that _claimed_ to be Apple iPods, but were not actually Apple iPods, so this Palm Pre feature broke, and after another round of changing the Palm Pre interface and Apple again detecting it, Palm gave up.

Now this article proves that a USB device under control of an attacker is a possible attack vector. Which means that Apple was quite right, for security reasons, to refuse connection to dodgy devices. Of course this attack is slightly different; seems they first attacked the USB system software itself by plugging in intentionally broken USB devices, but it is quite conceivable that iTunes could be attacked by a USB device pretending to be an iPod (presumably anything that doesn't pretend to be an iPod, like the broken USB devices in this attack, would never make it to the iTunes software).

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[Animaether]

the Palm Pre had a USB interface that claimed there was an Apple iPod, so that iTunes would transfer music to the device. Then Apple added code to iTunes to detect devices that _claimed_ to be Apple iPods, but were not actually Apple iPods, so this Palm Pre feature broke, and after another round of changing the Palm Pre interface and Apple again detecting it, Palm gave up.

Palm 'gave up' because the USB peeps told them to quit using Apple's IDs, which is against regulations - in response to Palm saying Apple were abusing the USB conformation specs by using portions of it as an access rights mechanism. There's no technical reason Palm couldn't have added whatever Apple ended up checking next to their device and had seamless sync continuing with iTunes; the game of cat & mouse would have left ever-fewer options with ultimately Palm as the winner. But that win would come at the cost of being kicked out of the USB club and then they'd have bigger problems to worry about.

As for the rest of your post.. yes - that's why Company X is quite right to only accept Company X keyboards, mice and webcams, and Microsoft-approved external drives, printers, scanners, etc. to connect to their computers and/or interface with their software. You know.. for security reasons.

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[X0563511]

Er, "USB Device" is any device that uses a USB bus. It's not specific to USB Mass Storage devices...

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[spud603]

I think you're confused about what USB is.

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[gnasher719]

As for the rest of your post.. yes - that's why Company X is quite right to only accept Company X keyboards, mice and webcams, and Microsoft-approved external drives, printers, scanners, etc. to connect to their computers and/or interface with their software. You know.. for security reasons.

That's not what Apple did. They only accepted devices that claimed to be Apple iPods when they were indeed Apple iPods. You would have a point if the Palm Pre claimed it was a Palm Pre and was rejected; it would be absolutely fine if Apple rejected any device that identifies itself as an Epson scanner, for example, but wasn't actually an Epson scanner. In the case of the iPod, Apple isn't selling music with DRM anymore, but I'm sure their old contracts are still intact that don't allow them to download DRM'd music onto any players other than Apple iPods. Not on devices that claim to be Apple iPods, but devices that actually _are_ Apple iPods.

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[wbo]

In the case of the iPod, Apple isn't selling music with DRM anymore, but I'm sure their old contracts are still intact that don't allow them to download DRM'd music onto any players other than Apple iPods. Not on devices that claim to be Apple iPods, but devices that actually _are_ Apple iPods.

The iTunes sync feature that made the Pre report itself as an iPod was designed to allow people who purchased DRM free tracks from iTunes to be able to sync them to the Pre for later playback. The Pre never had any support for DRM'd music tracks.

The problem is iTunes will only sync DRM free music with devices that are considered to be "trusted" by Apple which includes all iPods and a few other 3rd party players but not the Pre. Which was why Palm decided to allow the Pre to spoof the USB ID of an iPod.

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

Another stellar post by sopssa, or SquarePixel ... or odies? Too many sockpuppets makes a sad panda. :(

Hey boyo, USB device != USB mass storage device. Capiche?

Fucktard.

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[Anonymous Coward]

You win the "Make me groan aloud over something I read" contest. Congrats.

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[Animaether]

That's not what Apple did.

Except that it is exactly what Apple did and does.

They only accepted devices that claimed to be Apple iPods when they were indeed Apple iPods.

No - initially they merely accepted devices for iTunes built-in synching that claimed to be an iPod or iPhone (I'm not sure what the status of the iPad would be in all this).
It's only when Palm decided to make the Pre claim to be an iPod or iPhone (I believe it was an iPhone) that Apple added another check so that it had to be an -Apple- iPod or iPhone. Not a Palm 'iPhone'. I.e. they added a check for the Vendor ID.
The end result in either scenario and any further scenarios in the cat-and-mouse game (change Manufacturer ID, change handshake, etc.), however, is exactly the same; Apple only allowing their own devices to use iTunes' built-in synching, and that's just the way things are because the USB guys said Apple as OK to do this and Palm needed to sod off.

So yes - it is exactly what Apple did right from the get-go without even involving the Palm Pre & iTunes story at all.

You would have a point if the Palm Pre claimed it was a Palm Pre and was rejected

And it was, and is. So is a Creative Zen. So is a Microsoft Zune. So is a, I dunno, Fujiyama F-MP57 (random google hit).

Now whether one agrees with that or not is completely besides the point and material for another discussion - one that was held dozens of times well over a year ago when this was still a hot topic. Nowadays nobody cares anymore.. you either have an iPhone/iPod and enjoy iTunes internal syncing, or you get to use the device vendor's separate syncing application.

But the 'for security reasons' angle is absolute and complete bollocks. This wasn't Palm making use of a unpatched security hole like it seems to be the case for e.g. the earlier iPhone jailbreaks and the PS3 story where absolutely that should be patched and tough luck that it just so happens to also break these hacks - regardless of whether that was the true intent of patching. Palm's modus operandi with the Palm Pre dealt only with the syncing in the exact same way that an iPod or iPhone - If there were a security issue there at all, then that same security issue would exist for those devices and Apple would have been right to patch that in the name of security. Presumably syncing would continue to work for the iPod and iPhone and so would Palm Pre's shenanigans.. without any security issue whatsoever.

As far potential contracts with the music industry goes.. possibly; I wouldn't know. But since when is that a security issue?

Re:iTunes and Palm Pre

[Fallingcow]

Is there some USB rule against doing this in software? Say, creating a driver that shows the OS a USB-attached "iPod" that's actually a pass-through to an attached Palm? Same result, but the device no longer reports itself as an iPod.

Or, if that's frowned upon, make the driver be capable of pretending to be whatever the user wants it to be, and if the user happens to put in the code for an iPod that, after the release of this driver, is available on a dozen forums and how-to pages via a quick and obvious Google search, well what can Palm do about it *wink*?

Too late, Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

The device has already been reverse engineered. Expect clones very soon from countries whose courts won't kneel before you.

Re:Too late, Sony

[IamTheRealMike]

So it's a stack smash in the USB code? And Sony have already suspended distribution? I'm guessing that there'll be a patch for this within days, if there isn't already one ...

One Question

[sonicmerlin]

There's something I haven't been able to find out about the mod device. If you have an old PS3 that's backwards compatible with PS2 games will the modchip allow you to play PS2 games off a hard drive?

Re:One Question

[Theoboley]

I've been keeping up with this over the past week, and I don't believe the question has ever been asked. It would be nice, if homebrewers were able to write a ps2 emulator for the slims, so that you could do play ps2 games like sony originally intended. still makes no sense to me why they nixed it in the first place.

Re:One Question

[Theoboley]

sorry for the dual reply, the PSJB im not sure of, but one of the clones, ps3Stinger, claims that it will not back up anything but ps3 games. this coming from their website itself, translated from Dutch

From Allsystemsgo.nl Translated to english

Very easy installation program guides you step by step through the installation
Works with all FAT and SLIM PS3's. Supports all regions: USA, JAP, PAL and KOREA
PS3 Stinger turn forced software updates and will NEVER destroy your console or bricks.
Supports all PS3 games (does not work with BluRay or DVD backups of movies or games PSOne/PS2)
Backup games to the internal hard drive or an external USB hard drive and run directly into the graphical interface
No expensive BluRay burner or expensive blank BluRay discs needed
The backups of the hard drive (internal or external) to be read twice as fast as the internal BluRay player
This prevents delays and jerkiness that the game still runs smoother
With the PS3 Stinger is possible to a whole new generation to run homebrew programs. These are easy to start any USB hard drive / flash drive
The PS3 is quieter, the disturbing sound of a BluRay disc to be loaded each time remains omitted
The PS3 is less hot, turning the disc in the drive is no longer necessary since the games are loaded from the hard disk
Completely updated with new features / updates to the PS3 Stinger on a computer to

Re:One Question

[sonicmerlin]

Drat.

Re:Good for the new so apple can't do this shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Good for the new so apple can't do this shit!

What does this mean in English?

Arduino Time.

[Anonymous Coward]

I seriously don't care about the new games. I am way more interested in emulating old systems and the hacking of the thing. I would love to see XBMC on the PS3 and maybe linux with 3d support.

I'm gonna grab my arduino and try to make one of this USB jailbreak things myself.

Re:Good for the new so apple can't do this shit!

[Trufagus]

I don't know what that means, but I'm glad that you brought Apple into this...

However nasty Sony's action in this case it is not jail breaking. Sony is taking action to protect their DRM. This would be equivalent to Apple taking action to protect fairplay.

Jail-breaking refers to cracking the bigger lock on Apple's iOS platform.

If we are careless with the terminology we will confuse the issues.

Am I the only one...

[mace9984]

that snickers a little on the inside everytime I see "dongle"?

Quantronics

[quantronics]

There is a funny part in the affidavit from the Sony engineer "without having possession of the device, it is hard to ascertain if it infringes on Sony Copyright" We will see what happens on Tuesday...

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

over reacting (DRM in general)?

[AnAdventurer]

Why is it that I can own a M4 carbine upper with an 11 inch barrel and do not need a NFA short barrel tax stamp as long as it is not installed on a M4 lower, but it's 10 kinds of law violation to sell a dongle that can jailbreak some specific computer platform? This planet make no sense what's so ever. I am going back to my veal fattening pen and watch some sitcoms.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[Aphoxema]

Why is it that I can own a M4 carbine upper with an 11 inch barrel and do not need a NFA short barrel tax stamp as long as it is not installed on a M4 lower, but it's 10 kinds of law violation to sell a dongle that can jailbreak some specific computer platform? This planet make no sense what's so ever. I am going back to my veal fattening pen and watch some sitcoms.

Actually the two examples might be better related than you expect... regardless, "copyright infringement" is easy to pull off, a federal crime and some corporations are tenaciously lobbying to protect their source of easy money. They perverse the law and the public perception of it.

Now the NFA is just bullshit, but as much as politicians preach gun laws to get the vote there's not nearly as much lobbying on the topic. I mean, plenty are talking about abolishing guns and others are talking about abolishing nearsighted gun laws, but there's not much being done about it as, say, gay marriage.

Anyways... people are far more likely to "pirate" games (a relatively harmless action that leaves the person free of guilt) than use their legally acquired and prepared short-barrel automatic rifle to kill or even threaten anyone.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they had to pick a part of the gun that classifies it as a gun. And they chose the lower, and have used that consistently as defining the part that makes M16, M4, AR15 line a "gun."

The M4 carbine upper is not considered a gun. It's a barrel. A piece of metal. You want to pay tax on pipe now too?

The lower is considered the weapon and what you have to buy through a licensed dealer, unless you make and keep it for your use only. A lower without a barrel is still considered the "gun" portion of the supply list. That's the part that's restricted.

Essentially, you're complaining that because you have 4 tires, that's a car. Or that if you have an engine, that's a car. Most people would call the minimum component of a "car' the frame and/or body. Not every set of 4 tires (the upper) or the engine/exhaust (the barrel).

I have no clue what a short barrel tax is. But I'm new to this whole gun stuff. I just look at the legal minimum and buy parts from there. Maybe what you are aiming for is something more akin to the complaint why a Taurus Judge is exempted, because it has minimum rifling, from the 18" barrel shotgun rules, despite the Taurus being able to fire .410 shells.

btw, most of the people that have a problem with the dongle, would have a problem with overwrought gun laws. And there's a 100 kinds of law violation if that lower for your M4 goes full auto before 1986 or something (it's a felony), even own the PART will land your ass in jail even without a weapon present. And if you make and sell your lower without an FFL, that's also a felony.

"This planet make no sense what's so ever."

While the BATF gets a lot of shit from gun owners, they actually do make sense with respect to the stupid laws Congress passes. Most of my complaints against gun regulation have to do with the law, not the BATF (my only complaint to them is that they are sometimes inconsistent it seems in their letters of clarification).

I too find the dongle issue stupid. They should be allowed to sell it. It was Sony's negligence in handling their platform.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[couchslug]

You know the answer to that, it's called the "National Rifle Association".

Many geeks rant about freedom, but NRA members VOTE and won't hesitate to hammer the shit out of politicians who oppose them. THAT has worked for the NRA for more than one hundred years, and why I'm a life member.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[BitZtream]

Because when you bought the gun parts, you didn't agree to use them in a specific way, as the owner dictates.

When you buy a Sony product, you do agree to play be the rules they dictate.

Theres nothing wrong with the planet or the laws, only the people walking on it who keep buying things they don't like.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[imthesponge]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you're required to sign an agreement limiting your use of the hardware before purchasing a PS3.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[indiechild]

Hey, lucky you can own an M4 carbine. In my country (Australia, surprise surprise) you can't :(

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also no way to vote in Corporate lawsuit policy concerning DRM.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[drinkypoo]

Many geeks rant about freedom, but NRA members VOTE and won't hesitate to hammer the shit out of politicians who oppose them. THAT has worked for the NRA for more than one hundred years, and why I'm a life member.

I'd like to join the NRA but they feel qualified to comment on all kinds of shit besides guns. If they would add something to their charter prohibiting their executives from holding forth on things they know nothing about (or things they know about, and are pushing their own agenda) then I would be willing to give money to the NRA.

Is there a gun lobbying organization that doesn't hire batshit crazy wingnuts to lead their organization? I really want to join it as I believe strongly in the second amendment... I just don't believe in the NRA.

Re:over reacting (DRM in general)?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the world is made up of many different people who are divided into many different countries. Now, is it legal for you to own your weapon in the same country as this dongle is (only temporarily while further legal action takes place) banned? No? Why don't you stop being so stupid and recognise that the world is a heterogenous place rather than a homogenous one and maybe the world will start to make a bit more sense.

Re:Good for the new so apple can't do this shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ideagasm.

Cute, but that's it

[Aphoxema]

The device seems impressive at a glance, particularly with the unbreakable vault that the PS3 has appeared to be, but it has little merit as an actual tool for breaking open the system and so far only seems to serve the purpose of copying games to play without the disk.

It's probably not even a stepping stone to a real hack. It does show that people are trying and this will certainly lead to a hack that doesn't involve buying something so the sources can't be eliminated with just a letter from an attorney.

Re:Cute, but that's it

[Khyber]

"The device seems impressive at a glance, particularly with the unbreakable vault that the PS3 has appeared to be, but it has little merit as an actual tool for breaking open the system and so far only seems to serve the purpose of copying games to play without the disk."

Once you're in factory repair mode, you can do ANYTHING you want. Load customized firmware, whatever.

Which means this is the next step to full unlocking of the PS3.

Re:Cute, but that's it

[Schadrach]

Umm, since it puts you in factory repair mode, couldn't you just, you know, write a package other than the backup manager and run that?

I mean yeah, it's not terribly useful without an SDK or at least a compiler, but it does what needs done to run unsigned code.

Re:Cute, but that's it

[Aphoxema]

Umm, since it puts you in factory repair mode, couldn't you just, you know, write a package other than the backup manager and run that?

I don't really know, actually, but it is disappointingly obvious that the intent is entirely to "steal" games.

Re:Cute, but that's it

[Schadrach]

Seriously? It always looks like this to me:

There are two groups of people, those who want to pirate, and those who want to develop/homebrew/tinker. There is some overlap between the two, but most of the technical skill is in the latter and most of the money willing to buy something from you is in the former, so long as you are cheaper than the total number of games they wish to pirate.

If the homebrew guys can do their thing uninterrupted, there's less development put towards making a modchip, but once one is made it has to be presented in a way that makes piracy clear in order to sell enough that the developer recoups his time/effort circumventing protections that are too restrictive to let him do his thing.

Really, what's needed is a restricted version of the dev kit aimed at homebrewers -- say one that explicitly disables any access to the optical drive or anything else that might be used for piracy, and is signed under a different key to enforce that. Keeps the homebrewers happy, and reduces the talent pool for the "bad" kinds of exploits. All at the cost of letting homebrewers do their thing.

Re:Good for the new so apple can't do this shit!

[tophermeyer]

Wait, I thought we were talking about breaking my PS3 out of jail.

What are you guys talking about?

Dongle

[Admiral Chubbs]

I am firmly against the use of the word "Dongle" in any serious news article.

Re:Dongle

[spire3661]

More then once i have been accused of making that word up in conversation.

You can't

[daninaustin]

If you own an 11 inch upper and have a lower that does not have a tax stamp (and isn't a pistol) you run a big risk of getting prosecuted by the ATF.

Re:You can't

[AnAdventurer]

True, a disassembled SBR will still get you in trouble but that does not prevent you from having the upper in proximity to a complete weapon (I am sure you know switching uppers can be done in seconds) or having the "pistol" and having a buffer tube and stock kit (much less expensive but longer to switch).

Stop calling it jailbreaking

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not an iPhone. What next, do we start calling modchips jailbreakchips?

Re:Stop calling it jailbreaking

[Lanteran]

it just seems to be the common phrase. I don't mind it, it implies that the piece of hardware isn't free; its jailed, which is true and it conveys the proper message. e.g. you don't jailbreak, say, a droid; its not jailed.

Austrailia

[Lanteran]

in soviet Australia, console plays you!

goods1

[Anonymous Coward]

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