Android Fork Brings Froyo To 12 Smartphones

Frodo Phone? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-31 18:21 · Score: 2, Funny

Watch out, it's hobbit forming.

Re:Frodo Phone? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-31 18:30 · Score: 1

Frodo didn't know any enchantments, this is some other magic midget.

Enchantments? by Iftekhar25 · 2010-08-31 18:30 · Score: 4, Funny

This fork includes enchantments to many of the built-in apps [...]

Enchantments? iOS doesn't have that. Android rules.

Re:Enchantments? by matunos · 2010-08-31 19:04 · Score: 3, Funny

Are you kidding? Apple fans are constantly accused of being under some sort of spell.
Re:Enchantments? by md65536 · 2010-08-31 19:06 · Score: 1

Enchantments? iOS doesn't have that. Android rules.
Doesn't matter if iOS isn't enchanting because the devices themselves are magical.
One day, kids will be in awe reading fantasy novels about our golden age of computer junk.
Re:Enchantments? by Qubit · 2010-08-31 19:07 · Score: 2, Funny

Android Rules...and Droid Does...hmmm.
If past confusingly-worded advertisements are any indication, we should look forward to:
Android: Try our new interface for waterproof phones: Slip and Slide Rules!

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Re:Enchantments? by sapphire+wyvern · 2010-08-31 19:38 · Score: 4, Funny

Yeah, according to the release notes, they added a +1 bonus to the Music and Deskclock apps, amongst others, and added 1d6 [Fire] elemental damage to the Torch app.
Re:Enchantments? by Stele · 2010-09-01 01:21 · Score: 1

One day, kids will be in awe reading fantasy novels about our golden age of computer junk.
Unfortunately kids these days spend more time texting and less time reading. Fortunately, we'll be able to look at all that old junk at the Computer Junk Museum in the Mega-Costco, between the boat and forklift isles, near the Starbucks and Brawndo machine.

how much peer review is going on? by M.+Kristopeit · 2010-08-31 18:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

i'm concerned about bugs, intentional or not, that would allow someone access to my voice calls or other personal data... how feasible are those situations when using one of these 3rd party mobile operating systems rather than the one supplied directly by the mobile vendor with the device?

Re:how much peer review is going on? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-31 18:40 · Score: 4, Informative

review.cyanogenmod.com
They end up patching most vulnerabilities faster than the handset makers, but there is always the chance of users not understanding root and not reading the permissions their apps require. One of the many good things about android though is that it shows you what the app wants wants before installing, if you don't read/know what you're installing, who's really to blame at that point?
Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 19:44 · Score: 1

Have you seen how buggy vendor-firmware is these days? I'd wager that Cyanogenmod actually has less bugs than the original firmware on most of these devices. While I don't use CyanogenMod myself, I'm using a ROM which is nearly entirely based on it, just with some junk ripped out and tweaked for better performance, and I must say, the stuff they've baked into the kernel is fantastic (things like full Bluetooth HID keyboard support)... And while it does introduce some bugs, there are none known that could cause security issues.
The main problem right now is that with the CyanogenMod6 kernel on the Desire, the optical trackpad sometimes just stops working and then keeps the phone from sleeping properly, resulting in high power draw during standby - this can drain the entire battery in abut 10-15 hours, causing people to go to bed with 50% battery remaining and wake up with a dead phone. As soon as this fixed, well, there won't really be any real (as in, completely broken and not just annoying) bugs left on the Desire version...
I'm assuming the main (Dream & N1) versions are even more bug-free as they receive a bit more attention.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by dargaud · 2010-08-31 19:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

One of the many good things about android though is that it shows you what the app wants wants before installing
Yes, but without the ability to deny some of those rights, it's not very useful. Case in point: couple days ago I wanted to install a simple music app. It wanted GPS access and internet access. Fuck that, I didn't install the app but I'd much rather block those two things.

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by mcvos · 2010-08-31 20:18 · Score: 1

Yes, but without the ability to deny some of those rights, it's not very useful. Case in point: couple days ago I wanted to install a simple music app. It wanted GPS access and internet access. Fuck that, I didn't install the app but I'd much rather block those two things.
I agree. It could be useful if you could install an app while denying it some of the rights it wants. Of course that could make the app unstable and useless, but at least you had the option to do so and it was your own free choice.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by Sulphur · 2010-08-31 20:51 · Score: 1

What could go wrong with an app sending your coordinates to **AA?
Re:how much peer review is going on? by kasimbaba · 2010-08-31 21:31 · Score: 1

I don't know about GPS access, but internet is often required in order to serve adds for app-supported apps. I can't imagine Google allowing users to block the internet access right. It would break their business model.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by w0mprat · 2010-08-31 21:35 · Score: 1

i'm concerned about bugs, intentional or not, that would allow someone access to my voice calls or other personal data... how feasible are those situations when using one of these 3rd party mobile operating systems rather than the one supplied directly by the mobile vendor with the device?
You don't know it but what you are indirectly implying is that open source community developed systems could harbor more undisclosed vulnerabilities due to less peer review, either accidentally or, a via more disturbing proposition: that someone may masquerade as a coder in a community project to hide something in plain sight (certainly possible: http://underhanded.xcott.com/) obtaining sudden pwnership of thousands of phones (last I heard CyanogenMOD was on 30k Android phones now likely many more).

In all likelihood attacks against a vanilla carrier ROM on a Android handset may just not work against heavily modified aftermarket ROM. One would hope anyway. Hackers are also not going target individual ROM distributions, they'll go after mainstream devices. Any of these vulnerabilities in Android will be everyone's problem.

Still, I sold my iPhone 3G so some sucker can 'downgrade' that to iOS4 lag hell and I made a choice for an open source handset with a superior security model for a damn good reason.

It's a logistical impossibility for Apple to rigorously peer review every line of code that goes through their App store, which is why the false sense of security from a their strict walled garden is dangerous.

Android market has some protections, and Android's security model and code base is more robust anyway.

Oh and the Android open source community is fucking awesome.

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by N1AK · 2010-08-31 22:17 · Score: 1

It's very useful: It informed your decision and you walked away. You wanted a different app without GPS or Internet requirements, that's your problem, not a flaw with the system.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by MrCrassic · 2010-08-31 23:01 · Score: 1

Have you seen how buggy vendor-firmware is these days?
I, fortunately, have the Nexus One and get firmware supplied from Google. Their versions are pretty tight; the only bug I noticed was with large SD transfers rebooting the phone, but that went away after I got a new device, so it may have possibly been a hardware issue as well.

While I appreciate all of the work Steve and his partners (Team Douche :p) have put into making a very viable alternative to vendor-supplied firmware (especially on more restricted devices), it hasn't been reliable enough to make me comfortable with it. They always seem to have battery issues, and little bugs come up here and there that make me trust it less. On top of that, unless someone can point out the contrary, I have to unlock my bootloader to flash it, which voids my warranty. (There is no known way to relock it, and HTC made their bootloader show very obviously whether it's locked or not.)

Then again, the N1 is the least-restricted Android phone that's sort-of available at the moment and gets the latest updates from Google herself, so we have it easier. :)
Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 23:08 · Score: 1

IIRC there's now a way to root without the bootloader-unlock, just FYI. No warranty loss :)
Re:how much peer review is going on? by AvitarX · 2010-08-31 23:51 · Score: 1

Does that just allow you to run apps with root privilege, or does it allow custom firmware?
Too late for meme either way though.

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by delinear · 2010-09-01 00:01 · Score: 3, Interesting

Exactly - better that you're at least informed, if it had said nothing you'd be blissfully unaware that your music app was tracking your position and accessing the web. And if you don't want it to do those things, mail the developer and give them some useful feedback (I would have bought/used your app except...) and maybe they'll explain what the usage is, or even offer a version with those things removed. That's the beauty of the system, you have a lot of visibility of what's going on.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 00:16 · Score: 1

Custom firmware IIRC. Why too late?
Re:how much peer review is going on? by Kuraz · 2010-09-01 00:52 · Score: 1

you can block the internet access using droidwall and then the gps data also can't be sent anywhere. it probably only needs it for the ads anyway.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by bcat24 · 2010-09-01 00:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

It could be useful if you could install an app while denying it some of the rights it wants. Of course that could make the app unstable and useless, but at least you had the option to do so and it was your own free choice.
I agree in principle, but I think this would make life suck for developers. Would you really want to deal with the inevitable people saying "I paid for this app and it doesn't work" when the only reason your app doesn't work is because these same people didn't grant it the necessary rights? Supporting software is hard enough as is; we don't need to make it even easier for well-intentioned—but not technically-minded—folks to break things.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by AvitarX · 2010-09-01 01:17 · Score: 1

Already voided my n1 warranty.

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by MrNiceguy_KS · 2010-09-01 01:22 · Score: 1

The GPS could be for location-specific ads. Not that I'm saying this is a good thing, mind you...

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 01:29 · Score: 1

Congrats, welcome to the big boys' playground ;)
Re:how much peer review is going on? by Sloppy · 2010-09-01 01:39 · Score: 1

It's good to be concerned about bugs. The question is: do forks add bugs or remove them? If you start asking which code has been audited and which hasn't, you're going to realize the same question is going to apply to every single phone's firmware. You don't know about Froyo's quality, but then unless you work at Google or Apple, you don't know anything about Android or IOS quality either.

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by hedwards · 2010-09-01 02:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

By the same token, Google really ought to include a provision to make the application request permission to do certain things after it's been installed. Such as placing phone calls. Most applications that ask for that permission do so in order to allow you to select a phone number from the application and place it as a convenience. They don't generally need the permission all the time, so for something like that making it ask each time is probably reasonable and not going to cause too much trouble for anybody. The ones I really question are the apps which request GPS access which isn't relevant to the apps primary function. That strikes me as something that we ought to be able to disable as there's no legitimate reason why random apps ought to be spying on us.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by supervico · 2010-09-01 02:43 · Score: 1

i downloaded a game that requested GPS and network info -- the dev's website stated that it was used by the ads to target audiences. In such case, it'd be great to turn off those features for that specific app. Now, if a PAID app asks for such things, then you should definitely question their motives.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by supervico · 2010-09-01 02:49 · Score: 1

great idea, unfortunately droidwall requires rooting your phone. I'm not criticizing anyone that does it, i just don't have any intentions of doing that myself.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by jDeepbeep · 2010-09-01 02:50 · Score: 1

Yes it is probably inevitable, but it could be greatly lessened by info dialogs to inform the user that the feature they are trying to access is only possible if they allow it to, say, access contacts, or whatever it is. Some apps do this to a degree already, and notify you when your mobile connection is switched off for example, while others just sit there doing nothing (bad idea). If it can't sync, it should tell the user why it can't sync.

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 03:35 · Score: 1

GPS fixes are too power-hungry to waste for advertising. Network based location a la Skyhook, on the other hand... now that I could understand.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by lowrydr310 · 2010-09-01 03:50 · Score: 1

resulting in high power draw during standby - this can drain the entire battery in abut 10-15 hours
10-15 hours? That's normal standby battery life on my HTC EVO if Google Maps and Google Talk are left running and lightly used.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 04:03 · Score: 1

Are you sure? I couldn't find it in English, but according to this, you can use Clockworkmod via fake-flash, and I'd imagine you can use that to flash a ROM...
http://www.android-hilfe.de/root-hacking-modding-fuer-nexus-one/36923-root-ohne-unlocking-vodafone-korean-frf91-neue-methode.html
Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 04:22 · Score: 1

Not without at least an hour or two of activity (i.e. screen on, radios active, CPU grinding)... unless you've got a process keeping the phone awake in the background all the time.
You should check your Battery History in the INFO menu (dial *#*#4636#*#*)... if "Running" (listed under "Other Usage" with "Since last unplugged" set) is higher than the amount of time you were actively using your phone, it's probably not going into standby properly when you turn it off. If that's the case, you should check under "Partial Wake Usage" and the battery use statistics in Settings=>About Phone to see if you can locate the culprit.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by tayhimself · 2010-09-01 04:25 · Score: 2, Informative

It could be useful if you could install an app while denying it some of the rights it wants. Of course that could make the app unstable and useless, but at least you had the option to do so and it was your own free choice.
I agree in principle, but I think this would make life suck for developers. Would you really want to deal with the inevitable people saying "I paid for this app and it doesn't work" when the only reason your app doesn't work is because these same people didn't grant it the necessary rights? Supporting software is hard enough as is; we don't need to make it even easier for well-intentioned—but not technically-minded—folks to break things.
Sorry, but this is how it works on iOS. Your app downloads fine. If it tries to use the GPS the phone prompts you for permission. If it tries to message you, the phone prompts you to allow messaging. etc. Works great, maybe google will copy this too.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by beej · 2010-09-01 04:43 · Score: 1

Works great, maybe google will copy this too.
What was it Steve Jobs said great artists do? Please, though, Google, don't steal Apple's refund policy.
Actually, a hybrid of the two approaches is needed, since I'd like to know before I buy what permissions the app is going to ask for.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by M.+Kristopeit · 2010-09-01 05:21 · Score: 1

not to be accusatory, but my real concern wasn't about "bugs", more about backdoors added disguised as bugs.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by M.+Kristopeit · 2010-09-01 05:25 · Score: 1

It's a logistical impossibility for Apple to rigorously peer review every line of code that goes through their App store,

yes, but that code MUST be developed through the apple development environment and run as user code... those apps would still have access to data, but much less access than modifying the entire OS, and only when the app was running.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by M.+Kristopeit · 2010-09-01 05:26 · Score: 1

yes, but again, not really talking about "bugs"... more about someone intentionally didn't do some input cleansing so they could attack that vector later.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by SETIGuy · 2010-09-01 05:37 · Score: 1

It's unlikely that they actually need GPS for that. Most apps I've seen that serve local ads use the coarse location from the cell system or external IP address (if on wifi). Locating you within a cell or city is usually enough to send you local ads. And, of course, you can always turn off your GPS receiver when you aren't using it for navigation. Last time I checked, power control was a separate set of permission.

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Re:how much peer review is going on? by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 05:39 · Score: 1

Hmmm, it's possible, of course. Isn't the same thing possible on... well, all open source software? All closed source software? All software ever built? ;)
Re:how much peer review is going on? by M.+Kristopeit · 2010-09-01 05:44 · Score: 1

yes, definitely... i'm just saying i tend to trust the peer review forced by the large corporation selling the phone's team of lawyers than someone offering a replacement operating system free of charge.
for accidental exploitable bugs, the manufacturer OS is probably more vulnerable, but for intentionally added backdoors, i'd worry more about the free OS.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by KnightBlade · 2010-09-01 08:25 · Score: 1

The OS doesn't support that unfortunately. Right now as a dev, you can access what you want and how you want, as long as you request for permission in the manifest.
Re:how much peer review is going on? by AvitarX · 2010-09-01 09:31 · Score: 1

I wish I could have done such without voiding the warranty though, as I have weird touch screen issues at times, that I would like to have fixed.

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Mom will love it! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-31 18:40 · Score: 1, Funny

When she hears Froyo has been forked, I know Mom is going to get all psyched and everything. This is exactly why Mom can't stand the iPhone, because we never hear such sweet news as we do about Android.

Re:Mom will love it! by Shihar · 2010-08-31 21:11 · Score: 1, Flamebait

No offense, but who gives a flying fuck what your technophobe mom thinks? If I wanted my life to revolve around what the dumb unwashed masses liked I would drink nothing but bud light, only read the sports, celebrity, and horoscope sections of the newspaper, and believe that evolution is an evil lie and that the world is 6000 years old. Most people are fucking stupid. Android forks are probably not for them.
Is Android right for people who are terrified by tech? Fight amongst yourselves because I really don't care what the answer is. I know that it is certainly right for people who like tech and don't wet themselves at the thought of customizing their phone a little for their needs. I mean holy shit, Apple didn't allow you to change your fucking background until iOS4. How stupid does your target audience need to be if you think letting them change their background is just too much responsibility for them to handle?
Re:Mom will love it! by MarbleMunkey · 2010-09-01 01:42 · Score: 1

*wooosh*
Re:Mom will love it! by Beat+The+Odds · 2010-09-01 02:30 · Score: 1

No offense but who gives a flying fuck whether you can change your background on a phone? I don't put stickers on the lid of my laptop, hang gonks from the mirror of my car, tattoo my shins or graffiti the nearest public wall. A sense of self worth shouldn't be reliant on decorating things. You don't speak for people who like tech. You speak for immature people who like tech.
I must see your rec room....
Oh, wait, your Moms rec room!
Re:Mom will love it! by Shihar · 2010-09-01 05:26 · Score: 1

I must have missed where I declared I achieve true lasting spiritual happiness from changing my background or spraying graffiti on walls.
The fact that you couldn't even change the background the phone uses is just a basic example of how iOS treats its users like they are dumb drooling idiots who are lucky to successfully plug the device into the wall. It is such a basic and trivial feature that it speaks volumes that you can't uses. Seriously, how fucking stupid do your users have to be if they can't be trusted with the ability to swap out the background of the home screen?
Need a more concrete example that isn't aesthetics driven? How about the fact that you can't use widgets, the mutli-tasking is gimped, and you sure as shit can't customize the interface in any meaningful way, much less swap it out entirely. Android merrily lets you do all of these things without so much as having to bother to root the phone.
Like I said, maybe decisions, choice, and customizing a device to your needs, be they practical or aesthetic, is too much for someone who finds technology scary. Maybe for those people iOS devices are the right call. For anyone who doesn't wet themselves when when they see tech though, iOS is crap.
Re:Mom will love it! by BasilBrush · 2010-09-01 22:16 · Score: 1

Well that went right over your head.

I must have missed where I declared I achieve true lasting spiritual happiness from changing my background or spraying graffiti on walls.
Same place the OP's mom declared a love of Bud Lite and Intelligent Design. Idiot.

One huge reason to buy an android phone by msevior · 2010-08-31 18:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

The existence of this project makes my want to buy an android phone.

No lockin for me!

Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by milamber3 · 2010-08-31 20:14 · Score: 3, Informative

You shouldn't really talk when you obviously don't know anything about the subject of conversation. The number of phones that Cyanogen supports is not "dwindling" it is actually booming. Up through CM 5.0 he only supported 3 phones (G1, MyTouch, Nexus one) but with the development of 6.0 he recruited rom developers for all the other phones listed above. This just happened a few months ago and this article is discussing the fruits of their labor. Additionally, the encrypted bootloader you were mentioning on the Droid X/2 has been broken and full custom roms can be installed http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/30/custom-droid-x-roms-starting-to-break-loose-efuse-be-damned/. Really, try to lighted up with FUD and do some more reading before you decide the whole modding community is dwindling and doomed.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by mcvos · 2010-08-31 20:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

The proper response to that is of course to advertise widely and loudly which phones are locked down, and which aren't. People who want an open system will buy the unlocked phones, and those manufacturers will be rewarded with extra sales.
I really don't see the point for manufacturers to lock their phones like this. For networks, I can understand, but when I buy a phone without a contract, I should own it, without any limitations. If we want high-end, fully unlocked/unlockable phones, we need to make sure there's a market for them. Manufacturers would be stupid to deny that market.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 20:40 · Score: 1

I and many other people have been shouting about the Motorola situation for weeks, and nobody seems to care. They're still buying Motorola phones like there's no tomorrow (no doubt fueled by the memory of the fully open Droid 1 and the false hope that the bootloaders on the Droid X and Droid 2 will be cracked soon), without heeding the consequences. If Motorola doesn't realize that its update polices and lockdown are costing it sales, they'll keep going in this direction and other manufacturers will follow. :(
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 20:55 · Score: 4, Informative

Wow. You should really inform yourself better before telling other people they're spreading FUD - and I'd recommend looking for information in places OTHER than blogs.
The Droid X and Droid 2 bootloaders have NOT been cracked, they're still encrypted, keeping you from booting a kernel such as the one included in Cyanogenmod. While read/write access to the system partition and a working recovery are a good step in the right direction, Droid X/2 development is stuck at exactly the same spot where Milestone modders have been stuck for the better part of a year now.
True custom ROMs like Cyanogenmod are NOT possible without bootloader access!
The FUD about the Droid X having been cracked wide open is pretty much what blogs like Droid Life have been spreading all over the internet, and it's just wrong. No custom kernel, no custom ROM. You can heavily modify the existing ROMs, but you MUST keep the kernel that Motorola signed for your device. Note that the developers who made Clockworkmod on the Droid X possible state explicitly that ROMs with custom kernels aren't possible with their recovery...
Remember the Milestone alarm-clock fiasco? The phone would just not wake up properly when it was time to sound an alarm, resulting in the phone being completely useless as an alarm clock. This was a kernel bug that was left unfixed for MONTHs, until the .36 bugfix release of Android 2.1 was pushed just weeks ago... the only way to fix it was by flashing a different kernel. Luckily it was discovered that the Telus version of 2.1 didn't have this bug, and that the kernel from that version could be flashed onto any Milestone due to them all using the same signature. With full bootloader access, custom kernels without this bug (like they've been available for the bootloader-unlocked Droid all along) would have been usable right away, and the problem would have been fixed by the community more or less right away.
And that's just one example of why it's important to have full bootloader access for flashing custom kernels. There are many more... like being able to create a ROM like CyanogenMod for the device. Many of the tweaks built into Cyanogenmod are kernel-level changes, and while you may be able to get somewhere by loading kernel modules at runtime (like the overclocking module for the Milestone), you'll have a tough time replicating all the functions of a full custom kernel that way.
Like I probably mentioned in my earlier post, even HTC is moving in this direction (albeit slowly), with some sort of runtime-protection of the system partition that's apparently uncrackable so far on the Desire and IIRC some other phones too (Legend?).
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 21:00 · Score: 2, Informative

More info here: http://www.koushikdutta.com/2010/08/droid-x-recovery.html
Note the following:
"So can we now install custom ROMs?
Yes, but you can't replace the kernel or boot image. But really, once you have access to /system, anything is possible. It will just take a little hackery. "
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by Nursie · 2010-08-31 21:03 · Score: 2, Funny

Interesting use of 'FUD'. it's more like Hope uncertainty and unfounded optimism.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 21:09 · Score: 1

Correct, I was being stupid. Should have proofread :(
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by milamber3 · 2010-08-31 21:55 · Score: 2, Informative

You are utterly mistaken. If the Desire is as locked down as you say it is then explain the fully functional CM 6.0 that runs on it including the custom kernel. Check out the XDA Desire forum for some details and then hopefully you can come back better informed. Also, AOSP builds for the Droid X are coming with custom kernels. I find if funny that below you posted a quote to try and make your point that custom kernels wont be happening but you tried to completely ignored half of the quote by bolding just what you wanted people to see. Here's the quote YOU posted with your bolding left in place, but I've added a second bold+italics of the relevant portion you should be paying attention to.
"So can we now install custom ROMs?
Yes, but you can't replace the kernel or boot image. But really, once you have access to /system, anything is possible. It will just take a little hackery ."
Also, this quote was written when the Droid X was first released and they were just starting to get root access. Since then, a lot more progress has been made using a "little hackery."
Please stop posting FUD and misleading quotes. It was bad enough you couldn't even attempt to defend your initial post that cyanogen mod phone support was dwindling after I pointed out it had more that tripled in # of phones over the last few months.
You simply don't know enough. End of story.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 22:19 · Score: 2, Informative

Dear Milamber,
You seem to be misinterpreting some of my posts, as well as adding things that I myself never actually wrote.
1. About the Desire, please try to understand what I'm saying: Cyanogenmod runs perfectly well on the Desire. I'm using a ROM that's mostly based on CyanogenMod, custom kernel and all. The lockdown that has been implemented by HTC on the Desire ONLY limits writing to the system partition at runtime (i.e. with Android fully booted). It's still possible to write to the system partition via ADB through a custom recovery like Clockworkmod or AmonRA. I NEVER said that the Desire was locked in a way that would prevent custom ROMs or custom kernels.
And I quote, from my first post: "Even my HTC Desire has some (so far uncrackable) form of protection that prevents users from writing to the system partition when the phone is running...". I never said anything about being unable to flash custom ROMs or custom kernels...
2. As for the quote: In my opinion, your interpretation is overly optimistic. I am surely not a Linux expert (more of a n00b, really, as my Linux experience is largely limited to Android), but it's my understanding that without switching out the kernel, it won't be possible to change certain things. If you have information to the contrary, I'd love to learn something from you, if you were inclined to share your apparent knowledge.
3. I didn't attempt to defend the statement that Cyanogenmod-supported handsets are dwindling, because quite simply, you are right in that aspect. My wording is completely incorrect, and the dwindling support was actually supposed to be referring to the general availability of fully unlocked (i.e. bootloader unlocked, no weird system partition read-only access at runtime...) Android phones. Thank you for making me aware of my error.
I cannot, however, thank you for resorting to the (unfortunately, typical these days) "You have no idea what you're talking about" argument... it makes it impossible to have a conversation, so please refrain from telling everyone they don't know squat when you disagree with them.
I would, by the way, like to invite you to take apart my arguments about past experiences on the Milestone, which was bootloader-encrypted just like the Droid X/2 is now. What makes you think that the Droid X bootloader will be easier to crack/circumvent?
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by milamber3 · 2010-08-31 22:46 · Score: 1

I didn't use the "you have no idea what you're talking about" argument. I said "you simply don't know enough" and I stand by that based on the content of your posts. I have seen an AOSP rom running on the Droid X and was told it will have a modified kernel. Time will tell if that is the case or not. I'm sure if they have it working everyone will know soon enough. As for the Desire, if you have a custom kernel running on the device then it should be simple to have write permission to /system after booting the phone. My point in all of this is that custom roms with custom kernels and full nand access are not going to go away. I purchased an Epic 4G yesterday morning and promptly rooted it because the root was available before the phone was even released. Apparently, Samsung hasn't changed that much from their Moment device so full nand access is expected soon. I'm not going to assume that every manufacturer will decide locking down their bootloader is a priority just because Motorola did it.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by YouWantFriesWithThat · 2010-08-31 22:57 · Score: 1

i have been listening to the stories about the droid 2 and X re: being locked down too tight to load a custom ROM. it made me glad that i had a droid 1 that was more open. i wasn't sure if i would find a suitable phone to upgrade to when the time came.

i just did a warranty return on my droid 1 (headphone jack had a short) and was given a new in the box droid 2. i hate it. the custom camera, gallery, alarm clock, virtual keyboard, etc. all suck hard compared to vanilla android. and now i am screwed because i can't put my own ROM on it when they release a new version of android, i will be forced to wait for moto to update it.

short version: i didn't choose to 'upgrade' to a new phone that was just what they sent me. after one full day of using the droid 2 i am trying to figure out how i can get another droid 1 out of verizon.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 23:02 · Score: 2, Informative

Hi Milamber,
I implore you: Please inform yourself about the situation with the Desire before telling me I just don't know what I'm talking about. Try these links (just the first two Google results for "read write system desire"):
http://android.modaco.com/content/htc-desire-desire-modaco-com/315002/htc-desire-system-partition-write-access-in-progress/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=690744
After reading just a few of the posts in each thread, you should get an idea of the situation. There is a solution that has been proposed, and does work, in theory, but IIRC it involves an overlay file system that caches writes until the device is rebooted... or something like that.
About this AOSP ROM on the Droid X: How was the kernel modified? Since you can't boot a completely different kernel, you would have to modify the existing one at runtime... do you have any more information about this? I would love to see a link for it...
As for your point about full NAND access and custom kernels not going away: I wish I could share your optimism. As a former Milestone owner I've seen what manufacturers can do on a whim, and contrary to the headlines circulating in blogs lately, we've seen that it's definitely possible to lock down devices to a level that makes them uninteresting for modders. I would advise you to take a closer look at the Milestone situation, as it should give you a very good idea about the challenges that will be faced by users of subsequent Motorola devices like the Droid X.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 23:11 · Score: 1

For your sake I hope that Milamber is right in that someone will find a way around the locked bootloader on the Droid X/2... but going on my experiences with the Milestone, that could be more difficult than anticipated. Basically Droid X development is now stuck at the same spot the Milestone devs have been stuck in for months now.
Switching out large parts of the system is great and all (you should be able to switch to stock versions of the apps that are bothering you - camera, gallery, alarm clock etc.), but without a full custom kernel ROMs as full-featured and tweaked as CyanogenMod are going to be difficult...
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by YouWantFriesWithThat · 2010-08-31 23:22 · Score: 1

what is really crazy to me is that in every way the droid 2 seems like a regression from the droid 1. it has flash and wifi AP, but other than that motorola has seemingly tried to "make it theirs" as far as software and they know less about usability than the android team. there are some appalling UI choices that were made on the phone, and i just don't have the patience to replace a shitty implementation bit-by-bit.

luckily i haven't mailed back my droid 1 yet so i have a bargaining chip with them. i might just end up sending back the new droid 2 and living with the short in the headphone jack
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 23:28 · Score: 1

Hmmm, you could, of course, just sell the Droid 2 and use the cash to buy a new bootloader-unlocked phone, such as the Epic 4G... or a used Droid and pocket the rest for a new set of headphones to use with that headphone jack ;)
Then again, that would send the wrong message to Verizon and Motorola, making them think you actually like the locked-down, Motoblurred Droid 2...
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by hedwards · 2010-09-01 02:12 · Score: 1

Indeed, I was beyond pissed when I found out how locked down the Backflip was, which is a shame because I liked the form factor. I ended up ditching it within the first couple weeks and replacing it with a Nexus One. Not a perfect phone, and at times I miss the physical keyboard, but it's quite a bit less locked up, and I can completely unlock it if I so choose.

But in general I think that hardware manufacturers ought to be required to be more forthcoming about things like that. Sony for instance ought to be required to print on it's box that there are fewer features in the latest PS3 than in previous editions, CDs which have DRM on them should be required to specifically state that they have DRM and may or may not play on your equipment, and phones that are locked down ought to come with clear warning about what's locked down and give instructions as to how to get it unlocked when the contract period expires.

After all it's your device not theirs, and it's high time they started acting like it.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by nschubach · 2010-09-01 02:49 · Score: 1

One can only hope that the Epic is as bad as every other Samsung phone I have owned or known someone to own. The first one I had locked up all the time (not Android, it was a flip phone years ago.) My friend has a Samsung Moment that somehow at random decides to report that the battery has gone from 100% to 15% of a charge. I have another friend who's Samsung had rebooting issues.
I've decided to stay clear of Samsung until they get their hardware in line.

--
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 03:31 · Score: 1

Not having owned any Samsung Android hardware myself (the flip-phone my girlfriend has is fine - build quality is decent and the software is too simple to be a problem), I can't really say anything to that - but the keyboard on the Epic 4G looks fantastic...
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by Kakari · 2010-09-01 14:54 · Score: 1

CDs which have DRM on them should be required to specifically state that they have DRM and may or may not play on your equipment
I have seen nearly that exact warning on far too many discs (audio and games).
Re:One huge reason to buy an android phone by PipsqueakOnAP133 · 2010-09-02 06:18 · Score: 1

I'd actually say that it's less about the memory of the original Droid and false hope, and more that people either don't know that it's different or don't care.
Most people I know with a Droid bought it because they couldn't get an iPhone, and while they're singing the praises of Android 2.1, they're using the stock ROMs. A few of them know you can hack it with cyanogenmod, but don't care to go through the effort. That's not the target audience of cyanogenmod anyways, nor of the slashdotter.
This gets into another problem; I'm sure there's a number of fanbois who'd rather not have a list of locked down Android phones exist because it undermine their argument that "Android is an open platform unlike the others." That runs counter to those who do want to make sure manufacturers suffer for bringing out closed devices.

What will it take to end this fragmentation? by Kethinov · 2010-08-31 18:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

As a Droid Incredible owner, I'm pretty pissed off that Android 2.2 is so many months old and there's STILL no official build available for my device. Why can't I just go to a magic URL like google.com/android/2.2, then download a supported ROM for my device, and then install the new OS just like downloading a new version of Ubuntu for a PC?

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You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!

Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by deltantor · 2010-08-31 19:15 · Score: 2, Informative

As a Droid Incredible owner, I'm pretty pissed off that Android 2.2 is so many months old and there's STILL no official build available for my device. Why can't I just go to a magic URL like google.com/android/2.2, then download a supported ROM for my device, and then install the new OS just like downloading a new version of Ubuntu for a PC?
But you can, with cyanogenmod. CM is one of the only things that is fighting to end fragmentation.
Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by JoshRosenbaum · 2010-08-31 19:20 · Score: 4, Informative

Mine just came OTA (over the air) last night. Or you can do a manual update as shown here: http://www.droid-life.com/2010/08/31/manual-update-droid-incredible-to-android-2-2/
Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by vlueboy · 2010-08-31 19:24 · Score: 1

As a Droid Incredible owner, I'm pretty pissed off that Android 2.2 is so many months old and there's STILL no official build available for my device. Why can't I just go to a magic URL like google.com/android/2.2, then download a supported ROM for my device, and then install the new OS just like downloading a new version of Ubuntu for a PC?
Heh. I'm equally angry that nobody has released final-draft ROMs for the acclaimed wireless N standard. It's supposed to be an easier one-time task than porting Android every 6 months to a plethora of incompatible carrier hardware here in the US. That's specially true because final-N is supposedly a "virtually no-change" update to the draft-N standards that we bought for years. If even that small a promise at face value (namely NOT saying "oh, there was really no change" then what is my hope that buying this month's $500 phone will mean continued support for the lengh of my almost-forced 2-year contract to make that price a reasonable $299?
Like with the Android case, all implementors promised quick updates via ROM downloads. I log into the otherwise great DLINK router and click on check for new firmware every few months ... and realize that the industry has a hard threshold of 9-12 months after which no BIOS or firmware updates are ever released.
Unlike with hammers and typewriters, we are in a world of perpetual hardware beta bugfix and functionality-wise. A world where companies brainwash us to not demand release-quality products --just buy next year's version with the standard built in! Look at Vista taking 2 years to be stable by way of Windows 7. It costs us more that way, though, but companies aren't taking our pockets into account so much as their need to jump out of that same recession.
Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by milamber3 · 2010-08-31 20:21 · Score: 1

You can actually do just that. The Froyo source has been available from Day 1 on the AOSP website. You need to realize that Android is still in its infancy and similar to when linux was in its infancy if you wanted to run a different version on your hardware you need to be prepared to modify it, write new drivers, and work out some bugs. This is exactly what the devs do for most of the phones. I have been running 2.2 on my Hero for months even though HTC has said they will never release it for the Hero. At first it was buggy and some stuff didn't work but it has been fully functional and stable for a while now.
Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by silentcoder · 2010-08-31 21:05 · Score: 1

This is partly why google is changing some things in the design of android. It will reduce how much devices can differentiate their interfaces - but it is meant to ensure that when a new version comes out ALL the android phones can get it immediately.
I fully understand why they are going there, though I can also see the downsides.... interesting times ahead.

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Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by ferrocene · 2010-08-31 22:42 · Score: 1

At least you'll have 2.2 eventually. For those of us with a Hero or Eris, this is the only way we get FroYo. A semi-working build was available within hours of the FroYo source code release, and now stable versions abound. But the Eris is already end-of-life. One day your incredible will be, too.

--
Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by MemoryDragon · 2010-09-01 00:02 · Score: 1

You also could have done some reasearch instead of running to your phone net supplier typed in as us american the google webshop and bought a nexus one.
It speaks legends that now the nexus one is sold over the dev channel worldwide, google is selling so many of them that they have a supply problem, and before when it was only available in the US no one bought it except for a few.
Re:What will it take to end this fragmentation? by rotor · 2010-09-01 00:47 · Score: 1

You're not missing much with Android 2.2 being late. I've got it on my droid and I'd almost consider going back to 2.1. The icons routinely disappear off the screen (I just have to swipe to another screen to get them back, but it's an annoyance), and Pandora (or any other streaming music service) is affected by having every other song come through in low quality. All for what? Flash? They claim speed increases, but I haven't noticed any.

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Addlepated - punk & metal

stability by Blymie · 2010-08-31 18:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is a great ROM, and the whole crowd that put it together does deserve applause.

The only detractor is stability with smaller issues. There is an 'experimental' branch, which is essentially alpha like code, and the stable branch is more like a constantly moving, fairly mature beta.

Part of this, of course, is the speed with which this whole environment is moving. Just when the Cyanogenmod team release a ROM, it seems that a whole whack of changes manifest upstream, with the goal of a whole new Google branded release. So, naturally, the compulsion is to move to that newer codebase..

I'm hoping that for a while at least, Google doesn't fork for another release branch. Hell, there are already issues with phone manufacturers and the fragmentation in the Android market as a result. So, maybe it should be.. oh, I don't know, a YEAR before there is another fork and release on the Google side?

Perhaps then, people will be able to fork 6.1 or 6.2 of Cyanogenmod, and spent about 20 sub-releases just on stability issues.

All and all though, that would just be icing on the cake. And what a sweet cake it is!

Thanks Cyanogenmod dudes!

Re:stability by Trufagus · 2010-09-01 03:38 · Score: 1

I like the HTC phones but don't like Sense. I want a stock Google Android like on the N1, but I want to be able to get it on a range of devices. I believe that my situation is common, e.g. the stock Google Android is ideal for businesses.
In theory, Cyanogenmod gives me that, but I will want to wait for 6.1.
Also, it would be nice if they included an option to remove (or simply not include) all of those extras that they provide. Those extras are great for most of their current audience, but for support purposes one just wants the basics.
It really is a shame that the Nexus series has not succeeded, but perhaps that is an opportunity for Cyanogenmod?

Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by synthesizerpatel · 2010-08-31 18:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

I have been wishing for OpenVPN support on my iPhone for some time now. The idea that you'll 'control your whole life' through your phone is so hollow until you have 'secure' tunnels to your resources. The person who put the effort in to get OpenVPN working on android has my respect. Good work!

Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by sam0737 · 2010-08-31 19:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

And this is so essential to mainland user like me!...or else how you think the facebook app is going to work?
Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by trawg · 2010-08-31 23:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

Uh, I assume the GP was referring to the fact that the previous user described the VPN component as a 'killer app'.
I consider myself a pretty nerdy Android user - I'm probably in the 1% of Android users who a) actually know what OpenVPN is and b) would actually use it.
I sure would like to have OpenVPN but I certainly can't be bothered figuring out how to mod my phone to get it. So I think the GP was merely saying that for the vast, vast majority of people, it is pretty irrelevant when compared to something like having the Facebook application working.
Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by Threni · 2010-09-01 00:40 · Score: 1

Base Android comes with VPN support. What would OpenVPN add to this?
Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by erayd · 2010-09-01 00:55 · Score: 1

Base Android comes with VPN support. What would OpenVPN add to this?
Hmm, let me see... How about support for OpenVPN networks? There's not exactly a whole lot of other things that OpenVPN is useful for!

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Forget world peace, bring on -1 pointless
Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by jeffmeden · 2010-09-01 03:22 · Score: 1

Ah but to many it *is* a killer app. A blackberry-killer app, to be specific. Without a good set of VPN tools, Android phones are destined to be glorified social-media beepers. The only way to be taken seriously in the business world is if you take the business world seriously, and the first thing a phone needs from that perspective is security. While you are right that consumer handsets have little to no use for VPN tools, corporate handsets have EVERY use for them.
Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by PyroMite · 2010-09-01 04:49 · Score: 1

I think he was actually trying to say that he's from mainland China, and VPN support is necessary to bypass certain content restrictions, or at least that's the way I'm reading it.
Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by trawg · 2010-09-01 11:37 · Score: 1

Yeh as someone else pointed out, OpenVPN is a different type of VPN setup that seems quite popular over the 'regular' VPN stuff. I don't know the technical differences; all I know is we ditched the 'regular' VPN stuff that most things support in favour of OpenVPN.
Re:Smartphone + VPN is the killer app by trawg · 2010-09-01 11:58 · Score: 1

Yep, totally - there's people in my office for whom it would be a killer app. But I was just pointing out that whichever poster above was saying that for the vast vast majority of users, it is definitely not.
I am very tempted to try to install this mod thing on my Nexus One, but OpenVPN isn't the driving motiviation - for me it's just a nice addition.

Great project by Centurix · 2010-08-31 18:56 · Score: 1

It made my HTC G1/Dream faster than the stock 1.6 that came with it. Once I goldcarded the thing, installed the DangerSPL, updated the radio and installed the ROM. Totally worth it.

Updated to a Samsung Galaxy S i9000 which comes with 2.1 plus a bunch of Samsung applications. Hopefully Cyanogenmod manages to retain Swype and some of the lockscreen enhancements like the jigsaw thing when an SMS arrives or an email notification comes through.

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Task Mangler

Re:Great project by RMH101 · 2010-08-31 19:55 · Score: 1

CM won't, but someone on XDA Devs probably will, by standing on the shoulders of the CM code.
P.S. Swype's available in the market! I prefer SlideIT though. Either way, you can put it on any Android phone.
Re:Great project by Adm.Wiggin · 2010-08-31 20:19 · Score: 1

Swype isn't available on the Market yet, you lying bastard!
Re:Great project by RMH101 · 2010-08-31 21:13 · Score: 1

Oh, my mistake. It's freely available though, if you google. Mobilism.org has it, for example. My point is that you're not dependent on Samsung for it, and also that alternatives (that I think are better) such as SlideIT are also available.
Re:Great project by Centurix · 2010-08-31 22:28 · Score: 1

Good to know, thanks.

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Task Mangler
Re:Great project by hedwards · 2010-09-01 02:16 · Score: 1

Swype isn't likely to ever be available via the market. They've said as much in the past. They don't have the resouces/don't want to provide end user support. So shy of Google paying for a license or agreeing to support it for a chunk of the revenue, it's not going to happen.
Re:Great project by lowrydr310 · 2010-09-01 03:59 · Score: 1

Is it "freely" available, and is it officially supported on all Android devices?

Swype's business model is OEM licensing. I'm not sure who they're partnered with, but it didn't come on my phone. I found a .apk online and installed it, and I absolutely love it! I would have no problem whatsoever paying $10 or even $20 for it. The problem is that there's no way to buy Swype unless your phone already came with it.

Because Google didn't make the Droid Incredible by Namarrgon · 2010-08-31 19:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

So why should they build, test and support new roms for every different Android device out there? They've got enough on their plate developing the reference OS itself. You should be asking Verizon, or at least HTC.

With Ubuntu, a lot of people chipped in to write and make available many different device drivers so that a huge range of hardware could be supported. Phones too require different device drivers - but on phones, many of those drivers are still proprietary. Cyanogen (among others) is the best recourse we've got.

But for actual solutions - well, you could insist on buying only phones with minimal vendor changes from vanilla Android, thus reducing the amount of work needed for porting the latest OS. Vendors could devote more effort to supporting older hardware, since it's clear it's a big issue with customers. From Google's pov, they've said they're working on separating as much as possible from the base OS, so that the cooler stuff can be updated independently.

Only other "solution" I can think of is for Google to hold off releasing new versions until major vendors complete porting it to their older hardware. But all that would do is disadvantage Google's own customers to no purpose, just so that other vendors' customers don't know what they're missing, not to mention reducing the valuable feedback Google needs to work on the next version. Might as well go to an annual cycle and change their name to Apple 2.0.

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Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?

Re:Because Google didn't make the Droid Incredible by Hatta · 2010-09-01 02:26 · Score: 1

With Ubuntu, a lot of people chipped in to write and make available many different device drivers so that a huge range of hardware could be supported. Phones too require different device drivers - but on phones, many of those drivers are still proprietary.
How do vendors distribute proprietary device drivers linked to the GPL Linux kernel?

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Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Because Google didn't make the Droid Incredible by glitchvern · 2010-09-01 15:24 · Score: 1

So why should they build, test and support new roms for every different Android device out there?
Better question, why can a bunch of amateurs working only in their spare time support Android 2.2 on every phone they have ever released a ROM for, including the first Android phone that was released to the market, while giant multinational cell phone manufactures can't? They don't even come close. They don't manage to support it on all the phones they are selling right now. Amateurs are providing, for free, better support than the manufactures people actually paid money to manufacture and support their phones. The support is so much better that the research you should do when shopping for a phone is to make sure 3rd parties, which happen to always be unpaid amateurs, can support the phone you are buying because the amateurs can be trusted to support the product in the long term and to produce a better software stack in the short term much more than the multi-billion dollar companies that actually built them. This is ridiculous. These companies should be ashamed of themselves. Instead, some of them are not only not ashamed, but are actively thwarting 3rd party support by locking down the bootloader necessitating the aforementioned research.
I realize you and the parent comment you were replying to were talking about google providing android, but really the manufactures are doing an unbelievably bad job. You should be able to expect your manufacture to rebuild the os when google releases a new version of android. You can't, they are slow when they do, and some of them prevent 3rd parties from doing it for them. Some manufactures are deliberately ruining their own products. I would understand if they also sold an unruined product and made you paid more for it, but as it is there is no apparent business reason for them to ruin their own product. This is pretty messed up.
Long Term Support
Amateurs do
Motorola doesn't

And don't forget all the CyanogenMod-based ROMs! by bemymonkey · 2010-08-31 19:48 · Score: 1

As a user of a Desire ROM that's based largely on CyanogenMod (and there are many of these), I'd like to thank the team for the work they've done. The enhancements they've added are truly enchanting (hrhr), and add a lot of value to an already pretty great product.

There are issues, of course, but largely it's just a vanilla Android version with all the enhancements Google should have built into Android from the beginning. And that's awesome :)

Re:What doesn't work? by RMH101 · 2010-08-31 19:58 · Score: 3, Informative

Well, yes, if you go check the release notes it'll tell you exactly what doesn't work. It'll be a small list. On current version I think there's a bug that occasionally prevents phone from sleeping, draining battery. It'll be fixed.
CM ROMs do NOT include Sense UI -they are "clean" Android. Personally I like Sense, which is why I'm using the AuraxTSense 7.1 ROM from XDA Devs on my HTC Desire. It's lovely. Now the CM code is out, they basically set a gold-standard baseline for others to tinker with.
Seriously, the community ROMs tend to be more stable than the OEM ones - and they fix bugs, rather than ignore them.

Stability by zlogic · 2010-08-31 20:57 · Score: 1

Cyanogen is a great ROM, especially for older phones like G1/Dream which is already abandoned and doesn't have an official 2.x ROM. It had some really neat features like the WiFi tethering or additional launcher screens. However I found it to be bleeding-edge and somewhat unstable. For example, the 1.5 ROM had a battery monitor that actually drained the battery because of a bug in the code :)
Some features like AWB launcher are feature-rich but look incomplete and beta-quality. The 2.1 ROM for G1/Dream added so many features that the RAM is always full and applications frequently terminate to free memory for other apps.

Is there any full-fat linux available? by Nursie · 2010-08-31 21:20 · Score: 3, Interesting

Has anyone managed to, or even bothered to try to put a full linux distro on any of these instead of android?

I know the debian chroot thing has been around for a while, but I'd really love to be able to put debian or maemo or something like that onto another handset.

I love my N900, but there are newer, shinier toys out there but I like my mainstream mobile linux...

Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by RMH101 · 2010-08-31 22:03 · Score: 1

You can boot Ubuntu on a Nexus One. And Win95, should you be masochistic enough to try it. I also run PSX4DROID as a playstation emulator!
Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by TeknoHog · 2010-08-31 22:39 · Score: 1

I wonder the same thing about Toshiba Dynabook AC100. It is an Nvidia Tegra 250 based netbook running Android, and to my great surprise it is available in at least one consumer electronics chain here in Finland (Tekniset).
The Tegra seems like a relatively open platform, in that there are plenty of Linux resources and a Gentoo installation guide available, at least for the devkit. But I wonder if any of the consumer versions are similarly updateable. Kernel upgrades seem like a hassle in any case, since there is no bootloader, but the kernel has to be flashed into the firmware (much like in the Nokia tablets).

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Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by TeknoHog · 2010-08-31 22:53 · Score: 2, Informative

You can boot Ubuntu on a Nexus One. And Win95, should you be masochistic enough to try it. I also run PSX4DROID as a playstation emulator!
The only Ubuntu/Nexus installations I can find are running in a chroot, like the Debian that grandparent mentions. Win95 wouldn't run natively anyway.
Android devices are fairly limited compared to most computers, so I would like to run a real distro, instead of layers of emulation. In fact, native binary applications should run faster than the bytecode apps in Android.

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Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by gmuslera · 2010-08-31 23:56 · Score: 2, Informative

Don't forget that you had Froyo as alternate OS for the N900 before it was available officially for any Android phone (even before the Nexus One). Still no full functionality because the parts that Nokia didn't opened on it, but is actively being worked for fixing that. Nitdroid was a different android fork, and was targetted to one smartphone only (and the N8x0 tablets).

There are a few newer Android phones with better hardware specs, but still the N900 is an impressive piece of hardware, and Maemo is nothing to be ashamed of. And you should add to its Multi OS powers Garnet VM (palm), a bunch of console emulators (from zx spectrum to nintendo 64), and the upcoming Meego.
Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by asnelt · 2010-09-01 00:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

The only Ubuntu/Nexus installations I can find are running in a chroot, like the Debian that grandparent mentions. Win95 wouldn't run natively anyway.
There is a tutorial at http://www.irregular-expression.com/ for installing Debian on a Nexus One that runs directly on the hardware, no chroot. The only catch is that you need a PC hooked up to the device in order to initiate booting. So the only thing that is missing to be usable in the field is a bootloader that is able to boot an alternative OS. Or you could try to keep the device running without rebooting, but I guess that Debian without chroot is a bit too power hungry for that.
Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by gmuslera · 2010-09-01 02:42 · Score: 1

Less than 10 could be seen as "few" compared with the amount of android phones or devices out there. And resistive touchscreen could be seen as something negative or positive. Its very responsive, and enable things that capacitive ones can't, so is up to your preferences and way of using of those devices, some could use to have finer grained input (you can write like in paper, even sign with a stylus), or being sensitive to different grades of pressure and being able to do things like this one.
But i agree that Maemo could be more mature than meego, but couldn't say how much it matters till it gets finally released.
Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by TeknoHog · 2010-09-01 06:17 · Score: 1

There is a tutorial at http://www.irregular-expression.com/ for installing Debian on a Nexus One that runs directly on the hardware, no chroot. The only catch is that you need a PC hooked up to the device in order to initiate booting.
This also sounds like the Nokia tablets. They can be booted with a kernel provided by a PC via USB, so new kernels can be tested without flashing. I guess Android devices do need some way of updating the OS, including the kernel, so there should be a way to permanently install another OS.

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Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:Is there any full-fat linux available? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2010-09-02 02:35 · Score: 1

Now you're just being pedantic. Every mobile phone company has released a phone that is better than the n900 hardware wise. Including some which have never released phones. I just stopped listing them, because I thought the point had been made. The resistive vs capacitive argument has been settled: the market has spoken and it prefers capacitive. Apparently most people prefer the responsivity of a capacitive phone versus the ability to compose still art ( FYI, that is not a masterpiece. Its folk art at best.)

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Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.

I'm going to say it. by w0mprat · 2010-08-31 21:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

The Android open source community is fucking awesome.

Thank you.

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After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.

Runs on the Eris already by ferrocene · 2010-08-31 22:36 · Score: 1

I'm running CM6 RC3 on the Eris, and the phone has never felt snappier. It has revived (by today's standards) a dated platform. The fine folks at XDA developers have put together a ROM with WiFi tether, over/underclocking for improved battery life with increased speed, etc. Great stuff.

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Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...

backing up Google Apps on non-rooted G1? by Speare · 2010-08-31 23:14 · Score: 1, Interesting

The Cyanogen mod ROM images do NOT contain some of the stock apps (after a C&D letter from Google). They say you can back up and use the versions you received with your phone. But to back up the apps, you appear to have to root the phone. To root the phone, you have to downgrade the ROM. Will I be able to get updates to the built-in apps, or am I stuck with the oldest 2009 versions of those built-in apps on the newest Cyanogen-installed Android ROM?

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[ .sig file not found ]

Re:backing up Google Apps on non-rooted G1? by _generica · 2010-08-31 23:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Correct, they don't include Google Apps as part of the ROM.
They are distributed separately
Download, and flash in the same way as the ROM. No hassles at all.
Re:backing up Google Apps on non-rooted G1? by kyuubi · 2010-09-01 00:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

None of that is neccesary. For a while I dispaired that Google was going the way of Apple, but they have since worked with Cyanogen and released all the apps as a seperate installable .zip file. The only difference is that you need to flash two zips instead of 1. A company working WITH a mod guy to solve his problems and let him do his thing!? What is the world coming to. I've tried a million different ROMs, and Cyanogen is teh BOM in my opinion. I've still got an old Magic (Sapphire, G2, or whatever they keep naming the same device), and every time a new version of Cyanogen comes out it's like getting a new handset. It's awesome. ;-)
Re:backing up Google Apps on non-rooted G1? by __aaelyr464 · 2010-09-01 01:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

Mod parent up. I currently am running the latest Sapphire ROM on my Droid (shamefully, I have not yet tried Cyanogen). They had the exact same "issue"--a C&D was sent stating they could not bundle the stock Google apps with their ROM. However, instead of essentially killing the project by doing this, they provided an alternative--a separate update.zip file that you would install after the main ROM, which placed the stock Google apps back on your device. I am happy to see a company doing something like this--it's unheard of. I could never see Microsoft or Apple doing something similar, at least at this point in the game! Props to ALL the Android modders out there, and Google. I absolutely love the Android platform, and have no regrets.
Re:backing up Google Apps on non-rooted G1? by mdm-adph · 2010-09-01 01:22 · Score: 1

You're worried about the wrong thing, entirely -- you have to root your phone FIRST before you even start worrying about Cyanogenmod. Thus, after this point, it's trivial to get the new proprietary Google apps (they're in a separate zip file you flash), and Cyanogen will release updates for them from time to time -- just keep an eye out.

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It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
Re:backing up Google Apps on non-rooted G1? by recoiledsnake · 2010-09-01 05:28 · Score: 1

Google can get away with this because OEMs/carriers get Android for free. If Apple or MS do this, AT&T, other carriers, HTC/Samsung etc. would cry foul. It might even be in the contract somewhere that they can't facilitate unlocking/jailbreaking.

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This space for rent.
Re:backing up Google Apps on non-rooted G1? by kyuubi · 2010-09-01 18:06 · Score: 1

The way you state that makes it sound like some nefarious immoral thing to support the mod community. And I'll challenge just about every point you make. Google gets NO income from Android? Why do they bother, then? And I'll point you to the PS3 as an example of companies changing the functionality of a device even after release. You're assuming that the manufacturers of the hardware care more about jailbreaking than do the developers of the OS, while exactly the opposite is true. Jailbreaking allows piracy, which decreases the incentive for freelance developers to develop apps for the OS. Less apps means less public interest in the platform, which means handset manufacturers will simply pick another OS for their hardware. Only the OS guys lose out, HTC wouldn't care at all. --- Perversely, by supporting the mod community, Google has created MORE interest in Android, not less. That's the way I like to see businesses making money. Find a way to make cash by giving consumers what they want, not by locking them in.

Hurray for Linux by Eggbloke · 2010-08-31 23:19 · Score: 1

Cyanogen still doesn't support my Galaxy Spica *sniffle*

I do love that after the manufacturer has stopped supporting phones there is still the custom firmware out there.

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I care not for your karma and your mod points.

CM6 already here for Hero by donatzsky · 2010-08-31 23:58 · Score: 1

HTC Hero (including Droid Eris) are coming soon for 6.0

Actually it's already available in the form of FroydVillain. It's what I'm currently using and it seems to be working well enough - have had a few spurious FCs, but other than that nothing that I have noticed. And it's certainly fast.
Get it here: http://www.villainrom.co.uk/

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VPS-like shared hosting, on under-crowded servers.

Re:On the myTouch 3g (HTC) Slide by rwa2 · 2010-09-01 00:02 · Score: 1

Cool... I just got my 3G Slide last week too! Just finally received a USB cable though, so haven't had time to jailbreak / update it yet.

A bit annoyed with T-Mobile, since they've been promising OTA updates to Android 2.x for their MyTouch phones "just next month" since I bought a MyTouch 3G for my wife in *March* 2010. If you follow the blogs, they're *still* saying that. Yeah it's a moving target and all, but it's really a lot like they're just saying whatever it takes to keep people buying their current stock :-P

But thankfully because of projects like CyanogenMOD, I don't really have to worry about the silly manufacturer and carrier sillyness. As long as the phone is supported by CM or the like, I won't be afraid to buy.

Now if only there were a decent set of Android PIM apps, so I wouldn't still have to carry around my Palm TX ... :-P

Enchantment? Enchantment! by socrplayr813 · 2010-09-01 00:12 · Score: 1

So they have Sandal on the team now. Good for them.

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The confidence of ignorance will always overcome the indecision of knowledge.

Re:Being pedantic... by netsharc · 2010-09-01 00:29 · Score: 1

Seconded... it is not a fork people! Unless you want to call all modifications done for different providers (O2, Vodafone, T-Mobile, Verizon) and by different hardware vendors (HTC, Motorola, who else?) "forks", it's not a fork!

It'd be calling an Ubuntu installation that has some extra programs installed and some files in /etc modified a fork...

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What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!

Re:Bluetooth HID? by hufman · 2010-09-01 01:29 · Score: 1

It means you can pair a Bluetooth mouse or keyboard to it.

Re:Bluetooth HID? by AndrewNeo · 2010-09-01 01:35 · Score: 1

That it supports Bluetooth keyboard and mice, more or less.

Heres to hoping for future G1 support by jonescb · 2010-09-01 01:51 · Score: 1

In the CyanogenMod forums there was a pinned thread saying that Froyo wasn't meant to support the G1 (HTC Dream), but Cyanogen got it to work. Since they made it sound like a big achievement, I kind of suspect future versions won't support the G1; 3.0 especially. But I really hope they do get it working. Either way, I'm really happy with CM6 on my G1.

Re:Heres to hoping for future G1 support by tjhart85 · 2010-09-01 06:58 · Score: 1

The rumormill says that 3.0 [Gingerbread] will require a 1GHz processor. As it is now, the G1 can't really handle a lot very well and the touchscreen on it was not very good (when I compare it to my new Vibrant). A lot of apps had to be stripped out, in order to make it work smoothly at all. Personally, I think that the amount of RAM is far more important than the processor on these devices...people seem to be reporting that their Magics running it great and the magic had more RAM than the G1. The fact of the matter is that the G1 is very much at the end of its life cycle (in terms of being able to upgrade). Now, what Cyanogen has done though is make it so people can have a fully functional OS until their contracts expire, which is definitely a thing of beauty. I would have kept my G1 until my contract was up if it hadn't started acting up on me (hardware.....calls would drop, things are rattling inside the phone......a trip back to stock 1.6 didn't make it any better, so it definitely was hardware) which forced me to make an earlier than expected upgrade. The vibrant is simply an awesome piece of hardware .... I can't wait until CM gets ported to it so I can remove TW and the crap that Samsung put into this phone. The music player and video player are definitely nice though, hopefully that can get ported with CM (not in the CM package, but hopefully we'll be able to back it up and move it with us).

Re:Being pedantic... by meloneg · 2010-09-01 03:09 · Score: 1

Actually, it's probably closer to calling Ubuntu a fork of Debian, which it is. Or perhaps, calling Kubuntu a fork of Ubuntu, which it is as well.

Re:On the myTouch 3g (HTC) Slide by HebrewToYou · 2010-09-01 03:23 · Score: 1

The T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide is known as the HTC Espresso. I've been running CM6 on mine for weeks now using the nightly builds produced by their build-bot. There are a few outstanding issues on the device that may give you pause, however:

1. Bluetooth audio is nonfunctional for phone calls
2. Wifi connectivity issues arise in certain circumstances
3. The "FN" and "CAPS" lights on the hardware keyboard do not light up when their respective buttons are pressed

Other than that, though, the software is rock solid. I'm even running an overclocked kernel on my Slide, bumping the max processor speed from 600 MHz to 844 MHz without any loss of stability.

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I'm not popular enough to be different.

Homer Simpson, The Simpsons

CM6 is nice, but heavy for my phone by n2rjt · 2010-09-01 03:45 · Score: 1

I tried a port of CM6 release candidate on my HTC Kaiser (AT&T Tilt). It was slow, but to be fair the Kaiser was designed for WinMo 6.1, something like three years ago. I got the impression that CM6 is a thing of beauty on an adequate phone. The OpenVPN support was great, if you use that. I am using a more stock Froyo right now, a better fit for this old phone. I won't quote w0mprat, but I agree with the sentiment.

Re:Desire fully rooted by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 04:31 · Score: 1

Give me a link and I'll kiss you anywhere you want xD... DO WANT!

semi-offtopic question by Eil · 2010-09-01 05:04 · Score: 2, Interesting

Recently, I decided I wanted to ditch my iPod Touch. I'd really like a good quality Android device to replace it. So far the only decent Android devices that I know of are phones. (Yes, there are non-phone Android devices, but they often lack critical pieces, like the App Market.)

If I were to buy an Android phone (say, a Nexus One), and have no intention of using it as a phone (no phone calls, no text messages), can I use use all the other Android functionality without a carrier, just wifi? I've done a lot of Googling but haven't yet come across a definitive yes or no. I'd preferably like to hear someone who is already doing this.

(And yes, I already know I will pay a lot more than I did for the iPod Touch.)

Re:semi-offtopic question by g4pengts · 2010-09-01 05:50 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm running CM6 RC3 (haven't updated to release yet) on a N1. The situation with other phone may be different. To test with no carrier, I pulled the SIM out of the phone. A quick test show WIFI works, GPS works (tested via opening up map and see that it has accurate location instead of the location with a radius when it can only do wifi), can access market (although I didn't download or buy anything). GMail and Facebook app works too. That is about all I tried. I cannot guarantee that everything works, but at least the basic stuff should. This is much better than my last phone, where it locks if there isn't a SIM inside.

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Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

Re:Desire fully rooted by bemymonkey · 2010-09-01 05:26 · Score: 1

I think you forgot the link ;)

Re:Being pedantic... by bcat24 · 2010-09-01 05:32 · Score: 1

No, Kubuntu is not a fork of Ubuntu. They share the same apt repos, release schedules, etc. The only difference between the two is which desktop packages are installed by default.

Motorola i1 by guignome · 2010-09-01 06:17 · Score: 1

They should add support for the Motorola i1. It's (in the USA) the only pay as you go phone with android, and it runs android v1.5.

CyanogenMod = Android. by crhylove · 2010-09-01 06:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

Any other (Android) is not really Android. It's some crippled crap corporate malware. CyanogenMod is awesome: Wifi tethering, fast speed, uncrippled features. I would not have an Android phone if there wasn't a Cyanogenmod.

rhY

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I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.

Read TFA by Jesus_666 · 2010-09-01 12:40 · Score: 1

The enchantments in question all have "Enchanted app gets cumulative upkeep 1 MB" in their text box. Not worth it in my opinion.

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USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)

Another device supported by benob · 2010-09-01 21:46 · Score: 1

The Samsung Galaxy i7500 is supported by a fork of the fork called GAOSP, available in alpha at http://code.google.com/p/gaosp/. This kind of saves this 1.6-only device.

Re:Desire fully rooted by milamber3 · 2010-09-02 18:25 · Score: 1

Here's the link since the AC didn't post it http://unrevoked.com/ just click on the picture of the desire and you can download unrevoked3 for your phone.

Here's a link to their twitter so you can stay up to date. http://twitter.com/unrevoked

Re:Desire fully rooted by bemymonkey · 2010-09-02 20:48 · Score: 1

Thanks, my Desire is already rooted via Unrevoked3 though (since about 4 hours after I got it) ;)

I'm just waiting for "Unrevoked Forever" for the Desire, which seems to not have been released yet...

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