Australian Crackdown On Console Modchips Likely To Continue

angry tapir writes "Late last week an Australian court issued an injunction against a handful of retailers selling or importing hardware — commonly known as 'mod chips' — that allows unauthorized software to run on Sony's PlayStation 3. The court also required that the four parties that were the subject of the injunction actually hand over to Sony any PlayStation modchips they have. Sony's PlayStation 3 mod chip lawsuit could be just the first of many such cases in Australia, according to a lawyer who defended a client against Nintendo in a similar case earlier this year."

Comments

Australia: The Lucky Country

[slackarse]

Come visit Australia, "The Lucky Country". I mean, come visit Australia, We will steal your internets, then we will steal your pr0n, now we will steal your gamez".

Fuck it, don't visit Australia, because it's gone to the dogs already.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[cheater512]

Actually the Americans and Brits find us quite refreshing compared to their own governments. :p

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Nursie]

That's certainly one of the reasons this brit moved here.

That and the sunshine!

I figure the government are probably just as bad everywhere, but if I move country once in a while it'll take a while for me to truly understand how bad they are in the new place :)

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Anonymous Coward]

Sad isn't it. We weren't happy with just pinching loaves of bread. :(

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Fluffeh]

Actually the Americans and Brits find us quite refreshing compared to their own governments. :p

That's certainly one of the reasons this brit moved here.

That, and we use swear words in our international publicity campaigns.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[mabhatter654]

frankly, I think the mulinationals are using Australia as the "precedent setting" English-speaking country and Canada as the "bad child" country. The corporations have found a spot isolated enough they can game the system, and even the right-wing morality police (which are also large international corporations) are in on the action. Once they have a precedent in a locked down Australia, they can then go after Canada (which they already are doing) and then the UK and US.. all of course from their headquarters full of hookers and slaves in Dubai because they can afford to not follow any rules there. (where the majority of people live in poverty and inhumane religious law that still stones and cuts off body parts)

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck it, don't visit Australia, because it's gone to the dogs already.

A dingo ate my modchip!

Hey, this is slashdot, so I obviously don't have a girlfriend let alone a baby.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Blain]

Thank God you got the convicts and we got the Puritans.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[mjwx]

Thank God you got the convicts and we got the Puritans.

I'm grateful for that every day, speaking as an Australian.

Now that you've bought it up, I'd like to educate you as to the kinds of criminals that were bought to Australia. The reason for bringing convicts to do labour was to expedite the construction of a colony (the British empire did the same with some US colonies and elsewhere) so they didn't send the murderers, rapists and other such violent ruffians that would cause trouble for their guards. Those stayed safely in the confines of old blighty. Instead the petty criminals were sent to the colonies or "transported", thieves, deserters, people in debt (yes, they imprisoned you if you didn't pay back then), even just for being Irish (as subversives, it was illegal to even display an Irish flag at the turn of the 19th century). At the end of their sentences convicts were not transported back to England, instead they were given a parcel of land in Australia and permitted to work that land (so much of it around, it was worthless to sell). So in the end the convicts became colonists, which is why the hardened criminals stayed in England.

As I said, a lot of people were sent here just for being Irish so you'll meet a fair few Australians with Irish surnames.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[dangitman]

That, and we use swear words [wikipedia.org] in our international publicity campaigns.

That's not a fucking swear word, this is a fucking swear word.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[c0lo]

Yes, lot of handicap to recover.
But seems to me Aussies are stepping up the pace lately - they may get in front soon. Maybe the Americans and Brits will be willing to keep the lead?

I mean: c'mon, mates, there are so many (already existing) delicious combinations in the Imaginary Property area:

• hardware incarnations that trump copyright
• hardware incarnations that are protected by copyright laws
• copyright-able creations that are also protected by patents
• patentable human beings not yet but almost there!

Why stop here? Why not put aside the common-sense, let the imagination free and come with other niceties as well? Here, lemme try to open a list, by all means please step in and extend it:

• copyright-able patents - a patent which's description is copyrighted: nobody is allowed to publish/reproduce it, in part or whole, without the consent of the owner. For 70 years or more after the inventor's death... as a side-effect, this will lower the social cost related with dealing with submarine patents (all the patents will be, in effect, submarine) or other exceptions (even if beneficial for the society)
• trademark-able copyright - a copyright-able creation should not only be protected against reproductions, but against lookalikes as well (like: JK Rowling being finally able to stop the creation of novels on the theme: child, with powerful enemies, gets around using supernatural powers)
• trademark-able human being - no lookalike-s are allowed. When found, they will be confiscated and destroyed, the punishment against perpetrators is let to the choice of every country/state - Texas is allowed to prefer the death sentence, even if lenient for plain-and-simple patent suits

PS. mods, if you think the above is trollish or flamebite, that's OK. But if you reckon the above is funny, I seriously think there's something wrong with you.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Sneeze1066]

Fuck it, don't visit Australia, because it's gone to the dogs already.

Ya mean gone to the dingo's mate.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[slackarse]

Exactly. Farkin' dingoes, and their eating.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Ash Vince]

Now we will steal your gamez

No, you stole the game in the firstplace.

Now cue the million replies from people telling me that using software you have not paid a penny / cent for is not actually theft. Well as a developer I think it is and no amount of drivel posted by people merely trying to justify their own actions will change my mind.

Also, the post seemed to be saying that by making mod-chips illegal the Australian government is stealing games, this is certainly not the case either so if you want to get technical about the usage of the word "steal" then his post is no better.

Some people may argue that stealing stuff that is far too expensive for something that has no real physical form is ok. But the problem here is that almost everything can now be stored in digital form so nothing needs to have any physical form anymore.
Should everything that can be copied easily be free? I hope not as I would not be able to earn a living by writing software, and I would not be alone.

Many people here will one day be reliant on producing something with no physical form in order to make a living. The whole service model idea is not suitable for everything.

I used to use bittorrent and gnutella extensively when I was a student as I felt that my actions were justified due to the price I would have had to pay if I paid for everything I used. Now I have a bit more cash to spend and am on the other side of the fence.

This is just one of the injustices we have to face, many things in life are too expensive as the prices are often set according to the products target market instead of the actual cost of production. While you have very little money something being priced out of your pocket just because someone else will pay that amount seems completely unfair. When you actually have a new and novel product though being free to set your own price becomes a bit more complicated as you also need to make as much money as possible in the world we live in.

By the way, if something is deliberately priced out of your pocket I do think it is theft if you steal it, but I think it is completely understandable and were I on a jury I would never convict you of theft for such an offence. That is one of the great things about juries, we do not have to follow the law as we also get to decide if the law is "just" and find accordingly without setting a legal precedent.

There is the argument that mod-chips are really created to allow people to use the device in a way that the manufacturer never intended (ie - run Linux). I thought about buying one for this reason in the past and actually sort of agree with this. But the poster I am replying to was using the word "gamez" and that to me is only used when referring to "warez" so please lets keep that out of it. If he had posted something sensible about why Australia cracking down on these chips was stupid I would not have replied with this post.

Although this is really the same problem faced by BitTorrent now, because the vast majority of mod-chips are used to enable playing unlicensed copies of software the general public (including legislators) need to be reminded that there are legitimate uses of these devices too.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[elrous0]

If I learned nothing else from Flight of the Conchords, it was that Australians are evil, svil creatures who will rob you blind and steal your soul.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[Blain]

Wow. Amazing ability to not get a joke. That could make you a barrel of fun at parties.

Oh, that was sarcasm -- don't really try it at parties. Or anywhere.

No shortage of love for Ozzies here. Just a little good-natured poke based on the same poke in the other direction and current events.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[slackarse]

Flight of the Conchords was based on a true story. I'm so evil, I once robbed a man so blind, that he now has no eyes.

Re:Australia: The Lucky Country

[mjwx]

Wow. Amazing ability to not get a joke. That could make you a barrel of fun at parties.

Oh, I got the joke...

It just wasn't funny.

Oh, that was sarcasm -- don't really try it at parties.

Advice you should live by.

BTW, few Australian's actually know that part of our history. Pay attention, you may learn something yet.

Unlawful seizure

[mykos]

This no-questions-asked demand of goods without a trial and insta-judgement favoring the plaintiff doesn't bode well for the country as a whole.

Looks like they're cutting straight to the heart of the matter. Whoever has the most money is right.

Re:Unlawful seizure

[Anonymous Coward]

oh no. that just means that there was Private Administrative Process performed, and Private Court held between the parties. These previous courts ruled against them. this was merely an appellate court at this point, and could only operate on the orders of the earlier court cases.

Re:Unlawful seizure

[arbiter1]

even if they didn't get one the chips, they would eventually figure out the flaw by checking their code or buying one those chips. so they would get one of the chips one way or another

Isn't the point moot now?

[allaunjsilverfox2]

I mean, Not modchips themselves. But the code to unlock a PS3 is the wild now. It's like trying to lock the gate after the cows run into the town square.

Re:Isn't the point moot now?

[Psaakyrn]

Deterrence so that people don't go unlock the gate again after they herd all the cows back in. Else what's the point of any other punishment in existence?

Re:Isn't the point moot now?

[wintermute000]

Whats to stop Sony from issuing a mandatory firmware update that blocks this attack vector?

Sure if you don't care about multiplayer, PSN etc. then you don't have to update but majority of PS3 users do. Of course the situation changes if sony in its wisdom insisted on current firmware to play newer games, even in single player. If there's one thing that the MW2 uproar (and lack of actual effectiveness on sales/bottomline) taught us is that the mass consumer market will happily continue to toe the line so don't count on the potential outrage of the few internet disconnected PS3 owners preventing this.

Personally I only have a PS3 to play AAA exclusives (GOW, MGS4 etc.) so I'm not terribly fussed if I'm locked out of multiplayer.

What's With Australia?

[Frosty Piss]

What is it with Australia? They want to filter the Intertubes in was that make Iran look like an island of freedom, they regulate games like some nanny from 1984 ( the book ), their proposed copyright laws cause orgasms for the record and movie cops... Are the people that propose these law actually elected and represent the views of the average Aussie?

Re:What's With Australia?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're asking that about a country who had their elected prime minister axed and replaced earlier this year by his own party, and where recent elections resulted in a hung parliament where neither of the two major parties could form a majority.

Answer: no, they don't, and Australia is generally getting pretty sick of it.

Re:What's With Australia?

[sd4f]

basically, when the gumberment did the free trade aggreement with the USA, we got worse copyright laws foisted onto us. Before that, the law basically was around the idea that is was illegal to break copyright, so as long as you didn't make any infringing copies, you could do whatever you wanted, ie, run cracks on your own games, install modchips for homebrew etc but you still weren't technically allowed to make a copy. Now with this technological protection measures or devices whatever, the line is blurred, some court cases have gone a bit weird, most have settled, nothing has been tested in court yet, so this will probably settle it for once and for all, if they go all the way. Generally, even though the government can be nutters, the application of law is in the hands of the courts.

Re:What's With Australia?

[mjwx]

What is it with Australia? They want to filter the Intertubes in was that make Iran look like an island of freedom,

That was a small group of religious extremists, who have since been smacked down. Getting a filter now is impossible, since the greens control the senate and the independents control the house (we had an election a few weeks back). The best they got was a "voluntary" filter from Australia's worst ISP's (most people in Australia have the choice of 5+ ISP's). In the mean time, my Amcom and iinet connections remain unfiltered.

Would you like it if I said all Americans were naive blubbering vagina's like Rush Limbagh? (I cant be arsed googling the correct spelling). Not fair using the worst example of a people as the average is it?

Are the people that propose these law actually elected and represent the views of the average Aussie?

Is Joe Biden or John McCain a representative of the average American, how about Sarah Palin (no wait, dont answer that). Polly's always live in a world of their own and always seem surprised when reality crashes in on them. Same in every country mate.

Re:What's With Australia?

[dbIII]

The truly funny thing is one of the main proponents of the filter was caught the other day with more than 200,000 hits of "inappropriate content" deemed not safe for work for government computers accessed from his login. The Reverend Fred Nile after initially pretending it wasn't him, said it was for "research" and then said something about finding out what the Sex Party was up to (I'll have to see if I can find the quote, it is hilarious). That's quite a lot of "research" he's been getting up to from that office computer.
Yet another nail in the coffin of the filter - the issue is well and truly dead.

Re:What's With Australia?

[Mr. Tiggywinkle]

I think you might want to pay attention to the U.S. more than Australia, or hell, most countries nowadays, the same things that are happening in Australia are happening overseas, sometimes in greater levels.

Re:What's With Australia?

[timbo234]

What is it with Australia? They want to filter the Intertubes in was that make Iran look like an island of freedom,

Actually thanks to the recent election this filter is basically dead, it will never get through the senate.

Are the people that propose these law actually elected and represent the views of the average Aussie?

They're elected but the elections are on topics like the economy and boat people. Most Aussies think things like internet filtering and copyright are irrelevant side issues and don't elect politicians based on these issues, so nothing changes.

Re:What's With Australia?

[Anonymous Coward]

yawn

stones, glass houses.

Re:What's With Australia?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although it seems like it because of the media, you don't actually vote for the PM in Aus, you vote for the party. Unless you were in Kevin's electorate (which had double the national swing against him in the election just gone, btw...), you never cast a vote for Kev07.

So the elected prime minister wasn't axed - the party in power selected a new leader. Despite all the media hype about what a 'bloodbath' it was, about the 'assassination', there was exactly one person who was knocked off the perch, and it wasn't bloody - they said 'step aside' and he did, without contesting. As bloodless as you can get.

The media also forgot their breaking story that Gillard only moved against Rudd after he betrayed her trust. She was a strong backer of his until it broke that he'd been white-anting her. Fuck the little smug prick, he got what he deserved by alienating his party's power factions and undermining the few backers he had. When the chips were down, you need a faction to back you, and given that he was a factionless compromise candidate, he is at fault for further alienating all factions instead of cultivating at least one.

So yeah, we need to get over this myth that what happened to Rudd was monstrously unethical. It was distasteful at worst, and representative democracy in action at best.

Re:What's With Australia?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the truth.
Australia has been adopting US laws and policies promoted by large corporations.

The free trade agreement was very one sided and was detrimental to the average Aussies standard of living, check out food prices over the last 10 years.

The same politicians also pushed private health-care. Previously it was all "free" paid by taxes. Now we have private health users jumping the que in government owned , publicly funded hospitals and you are hard pressed to find a doctor in your area that "bulk bills".

I wish the US corps would just fuck off and leave us alone, or we had politicians who worked for us and not the big corps. Too many of them are thinking about the lucrative "after I finish with politics" pay they will receive for giving talks and turning up to funded dinners.

Re:What's With Australia?

[thegarbz]

Are the people that propose these law actually elected and represent the views of the average Aussie?

Please I invite you to tell me what choice I have. I voted the Sex Party first, the Greens, second, and due to our preferential voting system my votes went to Labor, that was what I wanted, because Labor despite the filters and the waste and the bullshit was an order of magnitude better than the idiots in the Coalition.

We have 2 main parties, both suck so bad that we now have a hung parliament where no one is in charge. You make it sound like we want to vote in these bafoons.

Re:What's With Australia?

[thegarbz]

The prime minister is not the president. The party selected a new figurehead, but the same party was still in power driving pretty much all the same decision. We vote for a local representative who is part of a major party. The party itself can have massive disagreements amongst themselves too, but ultimately the prime minister only shakes hands and kisses babies. Only an incredibly good prime minister actually has the power to sway negotiations within their own party. Clearly ours wasn't even good enough to keep his own job let alone have any impact on policy.

When the prime minister was replaced nothing was lost, and nothing was gained. To the party's credit they did this right before the election too so even people who don't understand the Westminster legal system should appreciate that what was done is still quite democratic.

Re:What's With Australia?

[yoshi_mon]

You make very good points but just FYI Joe Biden is our current VP. Compared to McCain, who recently sold his soul to keep his senate seat, Biden has yet to do anything really 'bad'.

Biden actually aside from often sticking his foot in his mouth is actually a pretty down to earth guy. So, again especially in light of what McCain has done lately, to put him in the same sentence with McCain is a bit unfair.

All that being said the right has been going nuts here in the US with its propaganda like we have never seen before. We have a lot of our own issues to deal with and what I see sometimes here is some projection when people from the US ask, "Hey what is going on with and your right wing wacos?!"

Re:What's With Australia?

[StikyPad]

the right has been going nuts here in the US with its propaganda like we have never seen before

Every generation says that. If you believe there's any truth to it, you either haven't lived long enough, haven't studied history, or both.

Re:What's With Australia?

[yoshi_mon]

So:

Fox News (New)
Right Wing Talk Radio (Not new but newer)
Right Wing Printed Press
Right Wing Religious Pressure (Not new by a long shot, but has gained new ground.)

Your right wing is showing methinks.

Re:What's With Australia?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't blame the religious extremists! Fred Nile was all for the pr0n and no filter!!!!

[Actually, I think he was possibly set up a little. Mainly because I know the PC support guys use other peoples log ins to go surfing to dubious sites. Sometimes the log ins of people who aren't even there any more].

Re:What's With Australia?

[Anonymous Coward]

You misrepresent what the Reverend Fred Nile said.

Yes, he denied it at first, but the 'research' was not being done by him, but an office intern. The intern admitted it was him and he was doing the research regarding the 'Sex Party' (yes rest of the world, we had a party in the last election called 'The Sex Party'). The Rev. Nile had asked the guy to do the research on the party. Also, Rev Nile lets others use his log in. (One of my ex flatmates was his Personal Assistant for years ... for the record she hated working for him.) lol

He [Rev. Nile] also said the 200,000 hits wasn't possible.

It is entirely possible the intern might have started this research a long time before being asked to do the research. :-)
But the searching wasn't connected to the Rev's computer, but the Rev's log in. It is also highly possible that the searching got up to 200,000 hits because others (ie PC Support people etc) were using his log in. (I know the PC support people always used to do 'dubious' surfing with other peoples log ins when I was there so that their own accounts wouldn't be connected).

I'd be asking if the logs show which PC was doing the surfing (the interns or Rev Fred's. A MAC address should reveal who it was unless the intern uses the Rev's computer. Should also show if the PC support people were using the log in).

Other possibility is that the Intern is taking a hit for the Rev Fred. (Who has resigned anyway). We were never disclosed all the facts, but, your version that the Rev Fred said he was doing the 'research' is bogus. It was one of his interns that admitted to doing the 'research'. Misrepresenting the Rev Fred like that could earn you a lawsuit over it all. If you dont' believe me, then check out Australian libel and slander laws etc.

Re:What's With Australia?

[dbIII]

but the 'research' was not being done by him, but an office intern.

Which is also a very serious and clear breach of the conditions for using the computer - he should never have been allowed the use the login of the MP, especially if he was a work experience kid. It renders every email from that MP untrustworthy and every one received must be considered as if it is now public information.

I'd be asking if the logs show which PC was doing the surfing

That was the staring point, more than 200,000 things in the logs from Nile's machine with Nile's login.
The libel laws are of course handled at the state level and vary from place to place, and some had to be changed because truth of the statement was no defence.
You are right that it is most likely not him but he is stupid enough to break the rules about computer usage without thinking of the consequences. Being pointed out as the guy with 200,000 porn hits is one of the consequences of letting others pretend to be you on a computer network, and also thankfully reduces his credibility as an opponent to the porn filter to zero. It's a case of saying "I want strict computer rules but I can't be bothered to obey the rules already in place".

And this changes what, exactly?

[Anonymous Coward]

So everyone will import directly from asian online stores, or ebay, and nothing else will change.

The only reason you don't see many R4s anymore is because better hardware is available, not because of anything the government or Nintendo have done.

Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[mjwx]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia

it is now virtually impossible for the filtering scheme to pass through the Senate.

The Filter is dead, long live the filter (I'm sure many angry ./ers wont let it die). At least I can still give the finger to an AQIS (Australian Quarantine and Inspection Services) official at the international airport and not disappear into an interrogation room for 3 days.

As far as overreaching border controls go, we did not get the short end of the stick.

Also, customs are only searching for illegal porn (so that video of you and your monkey wife doing is legal, tasteless but legal) you just have to declare that you've got it, the same as prescription medication. After all, it's not like customs will hand back you porn if you so much as threaten to sue them, no wait... they did.

Besides, asking "Do you have any pornographic material" is slightly less absurd then "Do you intend to overthrow the government of the United States" as far as arrival questions go.

So dear Americans, dont Visit Australia because you'll have a harder time trying to get back into your own country (and you're not staying here forever).

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Mashiki]

Really, Aussieland seems to be heading into the direction of you own no personal property. And as such, you can't do anything once you 'rent' it.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[mjwx]

Really, Aussieland seems to be heading into the direction of you own no personal property.

Really?

Because I live here and nothing like that even seems remotely true.

Check your sources and get back to me.

By the By, the law under which this trial was conducted was foisted on the Australian books by none other then the United States (via a free trade agreement that our then fuhrur the Honourable Mr John Howard signed).

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, wow same as the US then, I have had $15K worth of equipment seized by ICE out of my house and I have not and will not see it ever again.
If you live in the United States of America, you have no rights whatsoever
Don't earn more or work more than you are willing to donate to the state
This is also why I public domain everything
I dont need to worry about ownership, some guy in Australia is profiting from my idea, and that makes me happy it's not profit made in the US that helps US GDP increase.
ICE ICE baby, I hope to continue innovating and donating those ideas to more worthy people than American Simpletons

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure many angry ./ers wont let it die

I couldn't parse your sentence:

./ers
-bash: ./ers: No such file or directory

:(

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[syousef]

Also, customs are only searching for illegal porn (so that video of you and your monkey wife doing is legal, tasteless but legal) you just have to declare that you've got it, the same as prescription medication. After all, it's not like customs will hand back you porn if you so much as threaten to sue them, no wait... they did.

Are you trying to be obtuse here? I don't think it's the government's business what my wife and I do in our bedroom even if we photograph or video tape it. Having to tell some stranger about your sex life is an invasive loss of freedom. The only alternative is what my wife and I do and that is not to make porn in the first place. We're not into that so it's no imposition but it sure is another freedom gone.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Xest]

"At least I can still give the finger to an AQIS (Australian Quarantine and Inspection Services) official at the international airport and not disappear into an interrogation room for 3 days."

For what it's worth, even Canadian customs randomly interrogated me for 3hrs completely randomly, and judging by that Australian border control documentary that's on TV here in the UK your customs folks would at least pull someone giving them the finger aside and harass them for a little while, albeit not 3 days of course. I should also point out that Canadian customs when they interrogated me also asked me to log into my laptop and searched for porn then, this was 5 years ago, so the policy is hardly unique to Australia. With the exception of the likes of Norway, whose immigration service didn't even check my passport in Narvik and just let me off the plane and out the door without a single question, I suspect most Westernised customs and immigration services are just as bad as each other. I think egoistical power mad customs jackasses are unfortunately par for the course in Australia, Canada, the US, and the UK.

But I do not agree with your defence that searching for illegal porn is valid. You would not expect the police to just come by your house and search for illegal porn on the offchance- you'd expect them to follow due process, you'd expect them to have good reason to suspect you of having illegal porn. These protections have historically existed precisely to protect people's privacy from invasive searches, and border laws like yours, and those here in the UK (hell, we have full body scanners too now which are far worse) just go completely against the protections that would be afforded to citizens on the effective pretense that travellers are somehow lesser beings, with no right to privacy. This is dumb, whatever country it's in.

But Australia does seem to have many politicians nowadays that are quite authoritarian or even totalitarian in mindset, however most Aussies I've met have fallen into the laid back stereotype they have. What's the deal here? is it simply that those who aren't laid back are more pre-disposed to getting themselves into positions of power whilst the chilled out Aussies that everyone knows and loves could care less what the power hungry folks do and just get on with their lives regardless of whatever stupid new law or ruling the power hungry elite have come up with? I don't pretend that my country is any better of course, absolutely not, but I'm merely intrigued to know why a country that does have a reputation for being full of friendly laid back people seems politically to be trying to out compete even the US and UK on infringing freedoms and supporting big business to the detriment of citizens.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[mjwx]

Are you trying to be obtuse here?

Are you trying to be retarded here? What I posted should be clear enough. The law has been challenged, AQIS cannot abuse it.

I don't think it's the government's business what my wife and I do in our bedroom even if we photograph or video tape it.

It is the governments business what you bring into and out of this nation. It's their business because it's my business. There are a whole host of things (pests, diseases, dangerous items) I dont want you bringing in here. If you dont want the government to watch you and Mrs simian going at it then dont bring it, simple.

Customs laws apply to Customs zones only, which are at points of entry and exit of this country. Unless you've built your bedroom inside a customs zone your point is irrelevant.

Unlike the US, Australian Customs Laws (Customs Act of 1901) protects me from unlawful seizure (I.E. a government employee cant simply run off with my laptop and do what they like with it without cause) as well as non-customs related questions (are you gay, did you have sex with any prostitutes, do you believe in Mohammed and so forth). It limits their abilities to search and gives me recourse if they act outside the bounds of the customs act (as in the link I posted). But it also gives me an obligation to declare anything I bring in. Everything that gets taken off you requires the Customs agents to issue you with a seizure receipt, failure to do so is a federal crime. Further more if you believe this seizure to be unfair you can challenge it in court (this has been done before, successfully).

So I hate to interrupt you knee jerk "buh-buh-buh-mah-freedoms" reaction but I still have a lot more freedom getting into and out of this country then I do in the United states, didn't they suspend your entire constitution in customs zones.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[greyc]

full body scanners too now which are far worse

I disagree completely. Rummaging through my personal mass storage is a far more egregious violation of my personal rights than looking at every angle of my naked body (embarassing (and unpleasant for the observer) as that may be). Contrary to going over my primary mass storage, looking at my naked body doesn't tell you any of:

1. My stored passwords or other auth data (think SSH private keys).
2. My political views.
3. My taste in entertainment, pornography related or otherwise.
4. My browsing history.
5. My personal conversations going back half a decade.
6. Who my personal acquaintances are and their contact information.
7. What kind of work I do.
8. What kind of software I like to write in my free time, for my own use only.

Looking at my naked body doesn't come anywhere close in invasiveness, unless I wipe any and all remotely personal data on all storage devices I move through customs (I can always dowload it again later). Which I'll probably end up doing, when moving to or from any country with such egregious policies.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Xest]

Funnily enough I'd actually wiped my laptop before I went through Canadian customs the time they interrogated me, largely because it was full of clutter and seemed a good time to do it, you know, one of those "Maybe I should get that done before I go on holiday" type of things.

This actually gave Canadian customs more reason to question me- why does this laptop look barely used etc.

I was given the choice of answering questions such as where I worked, how much money I made, where I lived, what my relationship status was, how much money I had in savings and so forth or being sent on the next plane back to the UK for refusing to cooperate with a customs officer anyway.

Unfortunately if they want that information they'll give you a pretty tough choice between handing it over and being refused entry (which may cause problems travelling abroad in future), even if you're completely and utterly innocent of any wrong doing. Keep in mind that if you are deported you're liable for the return flight costs which may be extortionate whilst also losing your return flight ticket, and will be chucked in a holding cell until you can be put on said flight.

It's a really really shitty situation, and I have sympathy for anyone having to deal with customs beyond the basic "Passport please". Again, customs in most the Western world seem to be staffed by egoistical power hungry twats with no concept of right to privacy, because after all I could've been a terrorist, a paedophile - or worse, I could've been guilty of downloading MP3s. This alone is surely justification to infringe on our rights to privacy, right?

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Joe U]

"Do you intend to overthrow the government of the United States" as far as arrival questions go.

Most terrorists are stupid, it can't hurt to try and trick a few of them into confessing.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Anonymous Coward]

It's actually a Preferential Trade Agreement.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

As someone who lives in Australia, I can say that, no, we really aren't heading down that road. Beware of taking slashdot as your news source; you can't believe everything you read.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[syousef]

It is the governments business what you bring into and out of this nation. It's their business because it's my business. There are a whole host of things (pests, diseases, dangerous items) I dont want you bringing in here. If you dont want the government to watch you and Mrs simian going at it then dont bring it, simple.

That has got to be the most IDIOTIC and WEAK argument I have _EVER_ seen here. Do you realise the magnitude of that insult?

To attempt to somehow explain that pictures of my sex life are the governments business are some kind of threat or any of the government's business (just because I cross a border) at all is just laughable. Your stupidity is worthy of no more of my time because in trying to defend this you have proven that you're beyond any kind of rational discussion.

But it also gives me an obligation to declare anything I bring in.

No, you twit. You are only required to declare things that would endanger this country. Whether my wife and I were to tape ourselves having sex here or overseas (and then bring it in), it's not a threat to anyone.

So I hate to interrupt you knee jerk "buh-buh-buh-mah-freedoms" reaction but I still have a lot more freedom getting into and out of this country then I do in the United states, didn't they suspend your entire constitution in customs zones.

So it is okay to erode our freedoms just so long as they are eroded less than the freedoms of the citizens of some other country? Do you even have any kind of a grasp on the concept of freedom?

My orginal assessment was correct. You are obtuse.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[mjwx]

That has got to be the most IDIOTIC and WEAK argument I have _EVER_ seen here. Do you realise the magnitude of that insult?

Explain....

Thought not. You're FOS, I'll explain

The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service does an important job at keeping out foreign pests and diseases. Australia has a problem with several introduced animals such as rabbits, foxes (introduced to get rid of the rabbits) Camels and numerous insects and weeds that have upset the Australian ecosystem. AQIS's primary job is to keep these out, after that we have dangerous and controlled items like explosives, firearms, controlled drugs, illegal narcotics which can be quite dangerous if they get into the wrong hands. Unlike the US customs service, AQIS will be looking for plant and animal material first and foremost, I've received more questions about my guitar (because made out of wood) then any DVD I've bought into this country. BTW I do this about once every six months.

You are only required to declare things that would endanger this country.

Actually, you are required to declare anything that's on AQIS's list. If you dont like it, dont come to Australia. I've already decided not to visit the United States due to the trouble I'd get at the border (NOTE: Nothing against Americans, when I meet you abroad you are great people and I dont blame individual Americans for your bad laws, but I still have to deal with them).

So your post is devoid of content and ignorant of the law (and common sense). My assessment of you is correct, you are retarded.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[mjwx]

and judging by that Australian border control documentary that's on TV here in the UK your customs folks would at least pull someone giving them the finger aside and harass them for a little while,

TV is not reality. (I'm sure you know this). I've seen the Customs reality TV show a few times, they pick the worst cases Customs has to deal with for dramatic effect. If you flipped the bird in reality, they'd just tell you to sod off (or not to be a wanker). AQIS are actually one of the friendliest customs services I've dealt with, although maybe not the most efficient (I always get through Malaysia faster).

But I do not agree with your defence that searching for illegal porn is valid.

I think you've misinterpreted my post, I didn't say it was valid, I said it was legal. Like it or not we have to follow the law (exceptions may apply but those are extreme which this case it not). But blowing up at AQIS is no way to get the law changed (which IMHO, it should). AQIS still does a great service, keeping foreign pests and diseases out of Australia (we've got a bad history with introduced species) even if the law is not quite as good as it should be.

but I'm merely intrigued to know why a country that does have a reputation for being full of friendly laid back people seems politically to be trying to out compete even the US and UK on infringing freedoms and supporting big business to the detriment of citizens.

Like most YRO stories on /., this is overblown. The rantings of politicians are never representative of the average person in any nation. For the most part, you'll be fine bringing pornographic DVD's into Australia. They aren't illegal here, nor heavily taxed (10% GST, same as everything else) and I've never heard of AQIS asking to see your laptop (apart from X-Raying it).

Also Australia just had one of our... most interesting federal elections yet. No major party has enough seats to actually win and the balance of power in the house of reps lies in the hands of independents. I think we've expressed our displeasure.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[mjwx]

Again, customs in most the Western world seem to be staffed by egoistical power hungry twats with no concept of right to privacy

Not any different in the rest of the world. Only easier to bribe. If you get bailed up by Russian or Thai customs agents, they'll go straight for your wallet as there is no punishment for extorting out a bribe nor any recourse for you (especially as a foreigner).

But in answer to your question, these positions tend to attract the little Napoleons who cannot actually get into a position of authority.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[syousef]

That has got to be the most IDIOTIC and WEAK argument I have _EVER_ seen here. Do you realise the magnitude of that insult?

Explain....

Thought not. You're FOS, I'll explain

Do you often talk to yourself? Often answer on behalf of your opponent when debating a topic. It's called having an irrational and weak mind. There's your explanation for you.

The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service does an important job at keeping out foreign pests and diseases.

My sex life is neither a foreign pest nor a disease.

Australia has a problem with several introduced animals such as rabbits, foxes (introduced to get rid of the rabbits) Camels and numerous insects and weeds that have upset the Australian ecosystem.

My sex life or photos or video thereof is not a rabbit, fox, nor camel. So why even bring it up?

AQIS's primary job is to keep these out, after that we have dangerous and controlled items like explosives, firearms, controlled drugs, illegal narcotics which can be quite dangerous if they get into the wrong hands.

My sex life or photos or video thereof is not a dangerous and controlled items like explosives, firearms, controlled drugs, illegal narcotics. So why even bring it up?

Unlike the US customs service, AQIS will be looking for plant and animal material first and foremost, I've received more questions about my guitar (because made out of wood) then any DVD I've bought into this country. BTW I do this about once every six months.

You are only required to declare things that would endanger this country.

You still haven't explained how an initimate video a couple makes for their own private use is a danger to this or any other country.

Actually, you are required to declare anything that's on AQIS's list.

In other words, it has nothing to do with whether the item is dangerous and adding ridiculous things that are not dangerous to that list based on politician's moral or religious agenda is simply an errosion of freedom.

If you dont like it, dont come to Australia.

Being an Australian citizen and born here, that's another unreasonable and irrational thing you've said. I didn't have a choice in the matter. Nor should the choice be necessary, because freedoms should not be erodded this way. You're just pandering to the ridiculous.

I've already decided not to visit the United States due to the trouble I'd get at the border (NOTE: Nothing against Americans, when I meet you abroad you are great people and I dont blame individual Americans for your bad laws, but I still have to deal with them).

Your assumption that I'm an American is amusing - it shows that you have an irrational mind and are prone to jumping to conclusions.

So your post is devoid of content and ignorant of the law (and common sense). My assessment of you is correct, you are retarded.

Do you realise that even a monkey is capable of mimickery?

You haven't made one logical argument. You've stated lots of irrelevant drive that have nothing to do with the point at hand while pontificating about the role of AQIS (and seem to be confused about the difference between AQIS and Australian Customs - hint: DVDs don't require quarantine), demonstrated you are quite willing to jump to conclusions, and that you consider sarcastic mimickery to be the height of wit. You're pitiful.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[Xest]

"Not any different in the rest of the world. Only easier to bribe. If you get bailed up by Russian or Thai customs agents, they'll go straight for your wallet as there is no punishment for extorting out a bribe nor any recourse for you (especially as a foreigner)."

I found South American immigration officials to be quite welcoming in Chile, Argentina and Brazil, it was only the folks manning the border post between Chile and Argentina in the Andes that were a bit uptight, but seeing as there's nothing up there other than lichen and the odd guanaco with no other plant life and just a barren landscape otherwise, where these folks are apparently posted for months at a time, I can kind of understand why they weren't the most cheerful folks to deal with! I think I'd be pretty pissed off at life stuck in a little building with nothing else around for that kind of duration.

I've never really been to eastern countries hence why I avoided commenting on anything other than Western officials, however I do know sales folk at work who have similarly said Russian officials are a nightmare to deal with, even commercially we can't get goods across the border because the Russians have such protectionist border controls in place to discourage importing from countries like the UK. We have to manufacture at our China branch and export to Russia from there because the Chinese have at least a slightly better relationship with Russia in this respect.

Re:Love the last sentance of that wiki link

[mjwx]

I found South American immigration officials to be quite welcoming in Chile, Argentina and Brazil, it was only the folks manning the border post between Chile and Argentina in the Andes that were a bit uptight,

I suspect they are the same as Asian customs agents. Fine so long as you dont put a foot wrong (it is pretty hard to do something wrong at customs if you've got half a brain though) but if you do, they'll take you to a room, give you a glass of water, offer you a smoke and start talking about charges. Eventually you'll be offered a way out for a nominal sum of money.

The level of corruption would probably be on par with SE Asia in proportion to wealth. I have no problems getting into or out of SE Asian nations. The thing about this kind of corruption is that you dont notice it until you step into it.

Generic dongle?

[SharpFang]

AFAIK, the modchip is a generic microcontroller ( ATmega164PA ) in a simple USB-pluggable board, and the actual jailbreak code is in the wild.

It could be easily done that the microcontroller board is given some minor extras and some legal, common, generic functionality, say, a USB-RS232 converter. Then the customer can buy the dongle, and turn it into a modchip using a PC and a simple package downloaded from torrents.

Re:Generic dongle?

[ben_kelley]

Don't forget the cool red and green lights.

If you really want to go against it

[Joakal]

Political party Pirate Party Australia

We would really appreciate volunteers! Ask in the forum how to help. You can also help by advocacy. Get people to think and talk PPAU when angry about copyright/patents/internet/etc.

Note: PPAU were not in the recent federal elections because registration wasn't complete by the time the election was called.

Re:If you really want to go against it

[tokul]

Political party Pirate Party Australia

Except for the part where "pirate" word has negative associations/meanings and there is nothing wrong with modchips. People who want to exercise their rights might not want to be associated with piracy or copyright violations. Consider changing party name or keep your political agenda away from modchips.

Re:If you really want to go against it

[mumb0.jumb0]

I like the ideals of the Pirate Party and will vote accordingly. However, if you want serious votes, get a serious name. You need to appeal to the majority to get stuff done.

Remember, Kids

[Anonymous Coward]

if you piss off someone, and they send you a legal threat, you have five doors to choose from.

Door 1: Acceptance. follow their orders to a tee, or you're in dishonour.
Door 2: Conditional Acceptance (BEST PATH), accept on condition that the other party performs tasks for you. this can be prepayment of money (if they want your property), or just for them to swear, on full commercial liability, that they won't be making you give up your rights and private contracts if you make them a party to your private contracts (in this case, the individual sales with the individual customers).
Door 3: Refusal for cause (Failure to perform on conditional acceptance)
Door 4: Argument (Dishonour). explanations, defense, etc. you're creating controversy. courts don't want controversy. they want to resolve a contract issue.
Door 5: Ignore it (Dishonour).

Remember, that any Dishonour means that the other party gets to dictate the terms of the contract. you _really_ don't want them to do that. then things like this happen to good people that like to hack consoles.

Re:Strewth!

[Anonymous Coward]

So you did Bruce. Good on you, now get the beers in!

Revolving door ruling ...

[PaganRitual]

Wasn't this sort of thing ruled legal a while ago for purposes of circumventing region encoding on DVDs, that was deemed anti-consumer or something else I can't be arsed looking up?

That's the key to get this ruled back the other way yet again, in case anyone is interested.

Re:Revolving door ruling ...

[mjwx]

Wasn't this sort of thing ruled legal a while ago for purposes of circumventing region encoding on DVDs, that was deemed anti-consumer or something else I can't be arsed looking up?

For personal use. If you tried to sell a pre-modded Xbox MS could come down on you like a ton of bricks. However selling the modchip is fine, even installing it.

A dongle blurs the lines (no installation), and with the US copyright laws bought in through the free trade agreement Sony, MS and Nintendo have been lawyering like crazy to get these laws repealed and Modding to be declared illegal. Fortunately the phrase "activist Judge" does not exist in the common Australian vernacular and seeing as our legal system isn't precedent based the next judge could come along, tell Sony to get stuffed and undo all the damage. All we need is one judge with a clue, the cause of this is more ignorance then corruption.

Re:Revolving door ruling ...

[wintermute000]

The previous ruling hinged on region locking, as there is no region locking on games I think this is a different ball game

IANAL etc.

Don't buy consoles

[Anonymous Coward]

They're defective by design, you're fucked from "go". Buy a real computer and use it to do things its maker never envisioned. Consoles are nothing but handicapped computers, why don't people realize this is beyond me.

Just say no to consoles. You're not stupid, you're not weak.

Re:Don't buy consoles

[tepples]

Anonymous Coward wrote:

Consoles are nothing but handicapped computers [...] Just say no to consoles.

Then what do you play video games on when you have friends over at your place and they didn't bring their own PCs? A PC supports multiple USB gamepads and an HDTV monitor, but the major labels don't appear to be aware of that. They make FPS/RTS games for PC, which typically require a separate PC and copy of the game per player, and keep most fighting/driving/party games for consoles.

Australia, land of anti-fun

[Drakkenmensch]

How long until their crackdown on anything remotely fun spills to other countries? We have to help the aussies get their porn and zombie games back BEFORE their government does the same to US!!!

for ps3 modchips it's all mute now..

[SuperDre]

psjailbreak can pack it's bags, nobody will buy those expensive usbdevices anyway.. Just order an USB development board for $24 and just use google for the PSGroove software, and that's all you need now, there are even projects now starting to get your psp/iPhone/ti calculator/and a bunch of other USB capable devices doing exactly the same.. Since there is no way Sony can get an injunction on USB developmentboards in any country they are screwed.. Well that's what you get for screwing with your customers who used OtherOS.. We'll see what sony will do with the next firmware... Just remember that you will be banned (your PS3 and all your PSN-accounts that are on your PS3), so be carefull when using the hack....

Freedom To Tinker

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry Sony but you've screwed way too many people over way too long -- you're NOT that smart. We'll continue with the mod chips.

IF this ends up the way it seems likely to go...

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect in this case the judge wants Sony engineers to have to ability to look at the technology in order to adequately prepare their case... but the problem I have if this ends up as seems most likely - I.e.: Sony throws enough money at the case to effectively buy a win, then it risks setting a precedent that could get completely taken out of hand. If you purchase something, you won't necessarily have the right to modify it (aka customize it) to suit your own particular needs. The issue of copyright in this case is complete misdirection in order to prevent legitimate modifications that have nothing to do with infringing property rights (E.g.: Home brew software). But if this is the case for a Playstation, then it's not too great a stretch to see the argument applied to ANY other product. The usual approach taken is that you violate your warranty and lose your entitlement to support if you modify a product... in Sony's (and OH so many others) case, make everyone appear in the legal sense to be a criminal to justify complete monopolization of any market that could spin off in relation to your products. And make no mistake, if the get away with it in Oz, they'll find a way to do so elsewhere too. Once again, greed attempts to kill innovation... over mere peanuts. It must cost them more to go to court over this stuff than they could possibly lose in 'creatively imagined' damages, and I wish someone would please explain how this hardware infringes on Sony's rights. Surely they should encourage hacks and mods... to better understand how to further 'secure' future products, but also so that people will end up bricking their own hardware and needing to buy more!

Open source version available

[tlhIngan]

From my Firehose submission, there's an open source version available using a cheap and easily obtained development kit (~$40 US).

News article
Source code plus patch which you need to enable backup functionality.

All it would need is someone to port it to Linux (USB Gadget). An Android phone would serve as a suitable USB client.

Even better, this dongle disconnects itself from the USB bus when it's done - the only thing Sony can do is recognize unauthorized packages. Which becomes a problem because package managers will start using popular game IDs that Sony can't ban or block because it would block legitimate customers. Or download demos off PSN and use those IDs.

Hung Parliment == VERY Good

[FriendlyLurker]

Your right, Aussie were getting pretty sick of it and, and like the English, have sent a clear message through: neither of the two major parties deserved to be a majority. Now rather than run Aussies off to another war, filter their internet, "reform" their labor laws without even so much as a serious debate, they'll have to run it through thinking third parties like the greens that don't just toe the party line. If you listen to some (most?) of the press you'd get the impression that hung parliaments were a bad thing... but in reality it is just bad for the status quo - here's to hoping that the future of Aussie/UK politics will see more hung parliaments than ever.

America has got no chance of being fortunate enough to get a "hung congress", unfortunately.

Answer: no, they don't, and Australia is generally getting pretty sick of it.... ...recent elections resulted in a hung parliament where neither of the two major parties could form a majority.

Re:Hung Parliment == VERY Good

[rdnetto]

Unfortunately, our political system just isn't setup for this. We now have 4 independents holding the major parties hostage for their pet causes. One of the nationals even tried to get himself reclassified as an independent just so he could have a share of the power. And as for the Greens, there policies are even worse than Labour's from an economic viewpoint. Shutting off the coal power plants without a viable alternative will absolutely decimate the economy. Until now, they've never had the power to push them through, but with a hung parliament...

Re:Hung Parliment == VERY Good

[FriendlyLurker]

We now have 4 independents holding the major parties hostage for their pet causes

You have 4 independents who do not just toe the party line and do as their told. You also have two entrenched parties that are not used to being told they cannot do something.

...will absolutely decimate the economy.

As opposed to the economic decimation that has occurred under the watch of both Labour and Libral. You might be right - but the Greens deserve the benefit of the doubt. The old "they will shut off the coal mines, cold turkey style" is a often repeated scaremongering tactic used to persuade the less intellectually inclined to steer their votes away from the Green's - it never has a citation to any actual Policy saying to do what is being claimed, sold turky kill the economy style.

Labour/Liberal on the other hand do not deserve that benefit - they have well demonstrated their willingness to support international policies with our "allies" directly implicated in leading up to the world economic crisis.

Until now, they've never had the power to push them through, but with a hung parliament...

...with a hung parliament, Aussies will not just be doing what Labour/Liberal say they are doing with no debate. These two spoilt parties will now have to make trade-off's, negotiate and above all something new to them - seriously debate matters democratic style. A very very good thing and how a democracy should work, unlike what we have seen under the two party system we have had upto now (WorkChoices without debate, indeed).

Unfortunately, our political system just isn't setup for this.

True - the two party system did not require political trade offs or above all, serious debate. They did what they liked debate be damned. Now they have to do it that they (and their corporate press engines) are not liking it one bit - all thanks to just 4 independents - here's hoping for far more independents in the next election to bring even more balance to the political process, and dilute power out of the few hands that been holding it.

My thoughts similar w/ different reasoning

[KingAlanI]

Why but a gaming machine when I get a device that is a gaming machine and a lot of other things?

Especially since I play classic games [Civ II being my current fave], so I don't even need a super-powerful gaming PC.

Similar end, different reasoning.

Proponent not opponent

[dbIII]

Now that was an embarrassing typo.