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The Many Iterations of William Shatner
pickens writes "The NY Times weekend magazine has a long profile, well worth reading, of self-described 'working actor' William Shatner. He began acting at age 6 and at one point in the late 1950s was mentioned in the same breath as his contemporaries Steve McQueen, Paul Newman, and Robert Redford — until, without explanation, his career faded before it bloomed. Shatner, now 79, pulls no punches in his memories of the Star Trek years. 'I never thought it'd become a big deal, just 13 episodes and out,' says Shatner. 'I didn't think I was hard to get along with. There were a few disaffected actors who came in once a week. I had nothing to do with them. Friendly! I was working seven days a week, learning 10 pages of dialogue a day. They had one line!' Which was the beginning of the William Shatner character. 'They said I was this William Shatner character, and I figured I had to be it. Pompous, takes himself seriously, hardheaded.' Shatner said that that character evolved slowly, until one day he realized he couldn’t change it. 'So I played it. But I didn’t see it. That character doesn’t seem like me to me. I know the real William Shatner.'"
Yes.... well... this... should.... be an interesting.... read...
Shatner has what some actors actually lacks - a kind of distance to himself so he doesn't think that he is something more than he is.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
The 70's weren't good to the Shat. That and Star Trek V. The only reason there were so many horses in that movie is because he liked them.
His best role was as himself, hosting Saturday Night Live, years ago when it was funny. I remember a skit set at a sci-fi convention, and all the convention goers insisted on asking him questions about the science and logic of specific episodes. He blew up at them, telling them to get a grip. Best line: "You... have you ever *kissed* a girl?"
The CB App. What's your 20?
Shatner was definately talented.
Not sure if he lacked "big screen" presence, just had a couple bad breaks on the big screen, or if he got typecast by Star Trek.
He seemed to break free of the typecasting at the end. Denny Crane is not Kirk.
And as the other person said, Shatner had both a large ego and a unique ability to puncture that ego himself.
Not sure about the bad blood between him and the other stars. Could just be the nature of the game (He and Nimoy were bigger stars and got different treatment).
I thought Galaxy Quest was an excellent send up of the whole trek phenomenon.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
...News day?
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
...I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
but it's been a long time and I've worked hard to block out certain memories.
My main memory of Generations was my wife and I sitting in the theater, watching Kirk ride a horse. At one particular scene where Kirk is on his horse, silhouetted against the sky, I turned to my wife and said in my best pair of mock upper-class British accent:
"Did you hear about old Kirk? He's retired from Starfleet and went to some godforsaken planet to marry a horse."
"Marry a horse? Is it a female horse?"
"Of course it's a female horse. There's nothing queer about old Kirk!"
The laughter in my section indicated that this was a bit louder than I had intended. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.
Certainly I don't know what Tim Allen was doing. He seemed to be the head of a group of actors and for the life of me I was trying to understand who he was imitating. - William Shatner, on Galaxy Quest
At the 2009 Vegas ST convention Shatner was on stage and fans were asking questions. A fan of the original series went up to the mic and told him how good of an actor he was; he then proceeded to take the next 20 minutes agreeing with her. At some point I said in a low voice 'It's like throwing gasoline on a flame,' (a quote from Galaxy Quest describing the parody character of Kirk at a convention) and the entire section burst out laughing so much he had to stop talking to find out what was going on.
"Powers. I have them."
When his wife died by drowning in the pool at their home, I got weirded out because I had just watched an episode of Columbo where he played the murderer and, you guessed it, he killed his wife by drowning her in the pool.
Truly, a life imitates art moment.
I like Shatner, he might come across a little larger than life sometimes but there's a lot who are a whole load worse in the acting industry. And I'm not even much of a fan of the original Star Trek (do I lose my slashdot membership for saying this?) I'd certainly put him in the same class as Caine, in as far that both can easily mock themselves with a wry grin.
and regardless of negative traits assigned to him I see him as what I would want in most actors. Yes he stuck with the Kirk role a long time but he did good clean breaks from it. Kirk was an iconic character and any actor with that as part of his resume will always be shadowed by the character's traits which may not necessarily be the actors. Yeah, read all the "Bad blood" between him and Takei, the "feud" with Nimoy, but honestly, which of all them did as much as he did? He didn't stop. Of course I do like Koneig from TOS too. At least Shatner wasn't afraid to make jokes about his role, let alone slip little asides into other shows which automatically connected you back to Kirk without being outlandish (his phone on BL was pretty good and subtle)
73 years, I wonder what it is like to do something you love for so long, hell I would be happy with half that in a career I enjoyed.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Bottom line, the world will be a less place when he is gone......he is an entertainer, through and through
Anyway, I have always had a soft spot for William Shatner. I grew up with the Star Trek series and loved it. Still do. Now it has more of an ironic appeal (it's great because it is so cheesy), but I am also really enamoured with the look and sound of it, the production values. They did amazing stuff with limited resources. and every once in a while there was some really good writing. And the actors just got on with the job and were believable and consistent in their roles. Shatner was Jim Kirk. No question in my mind about that.
I really have no interest in the Star Trek movies. The subsequent series failed to get my attention. There is something special about the original series.
I confess to having watched and enjoyed TJ Hooker (kill me now!) but in my defense I must posit that it was a case of pubescent hormones. Can't imagine what I saw in Heather Locklear. Tramp!
A friend put me on to the album that Shatner did. Musically it was uninteresting to me but Shatner's lyrics and delivery were surprisingly listenable. Yes, funny and silly, but there is also a surprising depth.
Sounds to me like he might actually be a bit of fun to hang out with. Amazing energy for an old guy. Not bad for an old geezer. Pat Jordan strikes me as an untalented whiner. I'd be delighted to hang out with William Shatner for a day and a half. He/she made it sound like a chore. And of course Pat had to inject his/her whiny biographical details into the piece. Who is it about, Pat or Bill? Ultimately it is all about Pat. Poor Pat. Poor poor Pat.
Yes, I RTFA!
http://www.acetonestudio.com
SNL was good enough that my parents and I used to sit down and watch it every Saturday night together. That doesn't mean every skit was funny all the time, but over all it was great. Not saying we didn't occasionally look back on the days past, because of course good actors came on, rose, and then left. New people always felt a bit wrong since they were new, but quickly fit in well.
I can't pin down when SNL started sucking, but the way I know it did was that we stopped watching it regularly. Some time in the late 90s. I just didn't find it worth sitting down for. I'd tune in and go "Meh," and then go do something else. Same thing with my parents. It wasn't a situation of "OMG when this happened it was never the same!" it was that it slid down in quality until it wasn't really that worth watching.
To this day, I don't find it worth watching regularly. It has moments of brilliance, which get linked online thankfully, but over all the show just isn't that regularly funny.
'They said I was this William Shatner character, and I figured I had to be it. Pompous, takes himself seriously, hardheaded.' Shatner said that that character evolved slowly, until one day he realized he couldn't change it. 'So I played it. But I didn't see it.
Anyone else catch Kevin Pollak's recent comedy show The Littlest Suspect?
He does impersonations and his Shatner is apparently so good that Shatner asked him write a little bit about it for his autobiography. To hear Pollak tell it, he slagged it off until the last minute and then made up some bullshit about how Shatner was just doing an incredible sort of method acting with all the random pauses. Apparently not only did Shatner buy the line of bs, he ran with the hook, line and sinker and adopted that explanation as a sort of core identity for himself. I'm sure Pollak over emphasized for comedic effect, but I couldn't help but laugh when I read what was essentially his premise in the very summary here on slashdot.
By the way, that comedy show was hilarious - totally worth tracking down, especially the story about impersonating Alan Arkin on Larry King.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
When asked for the timing of her line during a filming of Boston Legal, an acquaintance of mine replied that it was right after the captain's (not remembering his real name). The entire room gasped in horror, and the director quietly explained that he didn't like to be called the captain. She's no longer an actress, but that's probably not the reason why.
He once inserted random mutations into his code, just so he could have the experience of debugging.
1. Read the article without looking at the byline
2. Read the article assuming that "Pat Jordan" is male.
3. Read the article assuming that "Pat Jordan" is female.
Notice anything different in the dynamic between subject and interviewer in any of those readings?
Yes, but... why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU2ftCitvyQ
Captain Kirk is the shit!
That writer is a jerk.. Verbal sparring is not a pleasant way to spend a day, and it's not the best way to get someone to be honest with you. His interviewing skills even as he presents them need work, his writing is short, clipped, and irritating, and lacks rhythm and even a trace of poetry. He is also mildly cruel and says very inappropriate things at inappropriate times. I would never spend a day with someone like that.
Brutal interview. Bravo to William Shatner for dealing with him as he did. It's the only way to do it. He must have spotted him coming a mile away.
He does a great job playing a parody of himself in Free Enterprise. If you haven't seen it, do so. It is a perfect movie for the geek crowd, and Shatner is hilarious.
The Outrage (1964 Western remake of Kurosawa's Rashomon) - didn't care to see much more of that. Japanese film class professor showed us a clip of that one almost because it was comically bad.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
To the best of my knowledge, any profession that involves getting up in front of huge numbers of people requires a certain kind of ego - or projection of an ego whether it be the real person or not. Most actors, musicians etc. get up there and act a part. Some of them are really bad at it.
I assume the last section of your quote implies the converse as well: that some are good at it?
The meta-commenter of my subject line? Lady Gaga.
"Art is a lie; I fight every day to make it real"
"The minute you say something about who you are, people think you're just playing the 'edgy card' and that's not what I want people to think of me as."
"It is in the theory of perception that we have established our bond, or a lie, I should say for which we kill. We are nothing without our image, without our rejection, without the spiritual hologram of who we perceive ourselves to be, or rather to become in the future."
"I can tell you who Lady Gaga is, but even after I show you, you're still not gonna really know."
"Me embodying the position that I’m analyzing is the very thing that makes it so powerful."
A bunch of her other quotes seem to indicate this attitude in action rather than directly getting "meta" like the aforementioned comments do.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
I'm a bit sad they don't mention his music at all. The first album he recorded was pretty terrible, but Has Been is a surprisingly interesting, and often very good, album. Throughout this article I was reminded of several of the songs on it, most specifically "Real." The album as a whole is pretty self-reflective and fairly humorous, so you get to see another iteration of Bill. Oh, and he doesn't try to sing, which helps a lot.
If you happen to be looking for something a little different and have an open mind, I'd say it's definitely worth a listen. It is definitely one of the most pleasant nearly-random musical finds of my life. Ben Folds had a pretty big hand in it, so fans of Ben may be more likely to appreciate it than others.
I haven't fully researched this, but I'm guessing that Shatner went on to a bigger career after Incubus than anyone else who starred in any Esperanto film.
Star Wars is way better than Star Trek
Shatner might have almost been a character actor, except that all the characters he has played are so *different*. I was a fan of Boston Legal, and I'd occasionally stop and look at this Denny Crane character and have to think "Thats the same guy who player Kirk!". Granted, they were 35+ years apart, but his skillset is anything but one-dimensional.
I can't wait to see "Shit my Dad Says".
And he cracks me up, the way he signs all of his tweets "My best, Bill"...
I know, everybody here likes the Star Trek TOS. But really, is that great acting?
I like some Schwarzenegger movies, but I've never considered him a great actor either.
I bought William Shatner's books on his time in Star Trek. I also bought Nichelle Nichols's book, George Takei's book, Walter Koenig's book, and James Doohan's book. (I might even have one or two others I forget now.) In Shatner's book he claims to be bewildered why his former castmates seem to hold him in low regard, and claims that while filming Star Trek he never knew they didn't like him. In all the castmate books, they make clear that Shatner was not popular among the castmates, ever. I haven't read these books in over a decade; but I think their biggest complaint was that Shatner felt his character was far more important than theirs (well, fair enough) and that therefore he felt justified in treating them poorly, which made them consider Shatner a big jerk (well, seems fair enough also).
I read an essay by Harlan Ellison about his experience with Star Trek, when he wrote the episode "The City on the Edge of Forever". (Summary: according to him, he wrote a totally brilliant and award-winning script, which Gene Roddenberry and company then messed up a whole lot, yet even this messed-up version was a fan favorite, and he is bitter about the whole thing even decades later.) The part that really made me wake up, though, was when he described a visit from Shatner.
According to Ellison, Shatner came over to Ellison's home and started going through the script. He counted how many lines of dialog Kirk had compared to the other cast members, and started lobbying Ellison to increase the Kirk dialog (and thus inevitably cut back other dialog).
I guess Ellison could be lying. But I also remember watching the Shatner-directed Star Trek V and I remember how much that movie revolved around Kirk. Of all the characters, only Kirk was smart enough to ask the incredibly insightful question: What does God need with a starship, given that He is omnipotent and all? The Nimoy-directed Trek movies did not focus overmuch on Spock.
Actions are a more dependable guide to character than statements, even earnest ones, from the person in question. There is also the evidence from people around him. I don't think I'd be in a big hurry to be friends with Shatner.
Yet, it seems that Nimoy really is friends with Shatner and has been for decades, so Shatner must have some redeeming qualities that Nimoy sees.
P.S. The most interesting thing from the Nichelle Nichols book was her description of the first black/white interracial kiss on broadcast television. She says that everyone was antsy about the scene, so they decided to film two versions: the real kiss, and an almost-sort-of kiss that might be less offensive to people bent out of shape over race issues. Shatner suggested they film the real kiss first, and they did so. Then, in each take of the fake kiss, Shatner made some obvious gaffe that ruined the scene. He didn't admit he was doing it on purpose, but he ruined every attempt to shoot the fake kiss. Perforce they ran the real kiss as part of the episode and made TV history. Shatner apparently forgot all about this, or at least remembered it differently, and Nichols expressed puzzlement that Shatner could forget such an unusual series of events in which he played such a large role.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
If he pulls off the first mask, and the second one is inside out, RUN like hell!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
I really thought the title read "The Many Irritations of William Shatner" :)
Have you ever seen that early Canadian/French language movie he made with some woman playing a Succubus/Demon?
It was oddly entertaining.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
STFU in the theater, kthxbye
It's murdered wives, all the way down.
My nephew told me that he was a fan of William Shatner. I asked him if he knew what role Shatner was most famous for.
"Boston Legal," he replied.
"No, before that"
(blank look)
"He was the first captain on Star Trek."
He looked puzzled, then asked,
"You mean the bald dude?"
Shoooop!
Hi there.
Ever heard of The Mindset List?
What you just described is a direct and perfect example. Relevant from item 11 onwards (John McEnroe could arguably be the Shatner of tennis while no one gives a flying sugary toroid what fancy names we give for non-fat non-dairy lattes).
FRIENDLY WARNING: The Mindset List will make some of you suddenly realise just how out of phase you are to current popular culture.
That said, I don't feel bad at all that the young'uns totally missed out on getting to enjoy Heather Locklear in her youthful, blonde glory in TJ Hooker. I think we're even getting to the point where Bon Jovi aren't even relevant anymore, so except for showing up occasionally in the tabloids in connection to her ex-husband, she's pretty much completely off the pop culture radar.
Threw the Tony Roma's scene in Extranormal and got this... http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7068653/
(yes, I made this, so I guess it is shameless self-promotion. it would be more shameless if I had any idea what self was being promoted.)
Hey, Bill Shatner has proven himself to be a fine entertainer, a imaginative writer and despite personality flaws a somewhat decent person. He will never be beloved, though, like, say Jimmy Doohan, and perhaps that irks him.
Jim Hofmann
Grand post there.
Make no mistake, the Star Trek typecasting was deadly. It took him some 15 years to grind out of it, and that only just barely.
As for the Big Stars thing, some of that is the fault of show design, giving the Big Three better placing than the rest. I believe part of this was that the Big Three were meant as subconscious anchors for the rather untrained audience of that time. Midwest Farmboy, Southern Gentleman, and Boston Brahmin Intellectual (Nimoy). Brilliant trick really, to make intellecual aloofness into an entire species ... known for intellectual aloofness!
Then check out the second tier cast. Pretty scarily diverse for 1966. A "pan-Asian", a Russian, a Scotsman, an African American woman, and a couple others. By carefully keeping them "second tier" the show managed to compromise with the needs of the times, yet still get away with more international exposure than almost ever before.
Eerie thing about the timing of Galaxy Quest - I think it went pitch perfect of all the best Star Trek offered, and poked a little fun at the risky "clunk" of the phenomenon. 1999 was to me exactly the end of the golden age of trek. We were all excited by Y2K and the first 5 years of a universal accessible Web, just before the dark tech crash. Then check out the Alumni of Galaxy Quest - going on to great things. Alan Rickman Pwns Harry Potter, Tony Shalhoub mastered Monk, Justin Long made millions delightfully pissing us off in Apple commercials, etc. Look! The actors of the Spoof of Galxy Quest ... broke free of the typecasting curse!
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
We had William Shatner. It's odd; I never really liked TOS in general, in terms of the TV series, but for some reason warmed up to the characters during the movies. Yes, I always thought Kirk was a jerk, and truthfully that was one of the main reasons why I was grateful for TNG; having a captain who wasn't a pain in the neck. At the time, however, I wasn't aware that Shatner was a member of the, "starring as himself," class of acting.
Truthfully, I've never really understood why the "method," is considered a legitimate style of acting. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't. You have someone with a very set personality, who basically changes their name for an hour, (or two, or however long they play the role) and that is literally the only thing about them that changes. That isn't acting; which is also why you need to make sure when casting such actors, that they already fit the character you have in mind. Sarah Michelle Gellar is another prototypical example, where Buffy is concerned.
The "method," to my mind was basically invented as a term for legitimising hacks who were still capable of doing reasonably well, as long as they were typecast.
As a contrast, look at the difference between Gary Oldman's character Zorg, in The Fifth Element, and his turn as Commissioner Gordon in the Batman films. You can also look at virtually any role played by Geoffrey Rush; he is never the same person in any role.
That is acting.
I can't believe no one has brought this up yet - from IMDB: "William Shatner spoofs/punks a whole midwestern town, (Riverside, Iowa, aka: the birth place of his Star Trek character, Captain Kirk) who think he is in town to shoot a big-budget, action-adventure film." A definite must-see for Shatner fans!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubus_(1965_film)
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
when you're perfect in every way,
I can't wait to look in the mirror
cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
but I'm doing the best that I can.
-- Mac Davis
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?