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Aging Star System Leaves Strange Death Spiral

jamie tips a post at Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy blog about an extremely unusual astronomical phenomenon originating from a binary system about 3000 light years away. Quoting: "The name of this thing is AFGL 3068. It's been known as a bright infrared source for some time, but images just showed it as a dot. This Hubble image using the Advanced Camera for Surveys reveals an intricate, delicate and exceedingly faint spiral pattern. ... Red giants tend to blow a lot of their outer layers into space in an expanding spherical wind; think of it as a super-solar wind. The star surrounds itself with a cloud of this material, essentially enclosing it in a cocoon. In general the material isn't all that thick, but in some of these stars there is an overabundance of carbon in the outer layers which gets carried along in these winds. ... AFGL 3068 is a carbon star and most likely evolved just like this, but with a difference: it's a binary. As the two stars swing around each other, the wind from the carbon star doesn't expand in a sphere. Instead, we see a spiral pattern as the material expands."

27 of 79 comments (clear)

  1. Strange Death Spiral by CarpetShark · · Score: 4, Funny

    Strange Death Spiral

    What? Doesn't everyone know this is due to The Last Starfighter?

    1. Re:Strange Death Spiral by RMingin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Reference fail. TLS had the Death BLOSSOM. Please hand in your card.

      --
      The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
    2. Re:Strange Death Spiral by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but if I'd said blossom you might not have connected it with spiral. Whereas, the way I wrote it, you did. Helping people make connections is part of communication.

  2. Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's the coolest thing I've seen in a while, and how fortunate that it's oriented just right for us to see! Good to know there's always an inexhaustible supply of strange, bizarre things out there.

    1. Re:Amazing! by CarpetShark · · Score: 3, Funny

      a spiral is exactly the form you'd expect...no mystery there unless you absolutely insist on viewing it in terms of mechanical shock waves.

      Also, if you see it as a big cappuccino for even bigger aliens, there's no mystery at all about why they'd stir it in this pattern ;)

      p.s.: I'm just having fun, not ridiculing the idea of an electric universe. But I believe that's already been done adequately.

    2. Re:Amazing! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      only bizarre if you continue to ignore the electric universe. gas that is that hot is not "hot gas" it's plasma. plasma is electrically conductive. a spiral is exactly the form you'd expect a birkeland current in glow discharge mode to take. no mystery there unless you absolutely insist on viewing it in terms of mechanical shock waves. then it's strange indeed.

      1) There is no mystery here in conventional cosmology whatsoever. This is exactly what you'd expect to see when the source of the emission is moving in a circle. The Slashdot submission painted it as "strange", welcoming you to make the false inference that this means "unexplained", only revealing at the end why this is unusual, but not actually mysterious: It's a binary system. The stars are circling each other, and so it is completely expected that their emissions would form a spiral. But you were happy to assume "conventional cosmology cannot explain this" even though it was both unstated and unsupported.

      2) Astrophysicists are well aware that stars and their emissions consist of plasmas; it's an important component of modern solar models. They are also aware that while plasmas are conductive if of sufficient density, a sufficiently dense plasma will also be quasi-neutral and the negatively and positively charged particles therein cannot move in the same direction under the influence of an electric field. Electric cosmologists forget this when trying to explain stellar emissions like the solar wind, which has been experimentally shown to be quasi-neutral (as would be expected by anyone who actually understood plasmas).

      Leaping on non-existent failings of conventional theory, while ignoring the blatant contradictions between EU and experiment, are par for the course however.

      --

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  3. Lucky us to see it this way: by Fluffeh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given that the only way we could see this amazing sight is it to be "flat" to us in our line of sight, if it was side on we would never see this in the glory that is there to be seen.

    Makes me wonder the same thing about all the planet hunters and exo-planets that we are finding - how many more would we be able to find if it didn't rely on having just the right angle from our vantage point...

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    1. Re:Lucky us to see it this way: by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Informative

      Given that the only way we could see this amazing sight is it to be "flat" to us in our line of sight...

      It's an amazing coincidence that it is flat on, but we'd still see it if it was at an angle. It' would just look oval rather than round. It would have to be nearly edge-on to be invisible.

      Makes me wonder the same thing about all the planet hunters and exo-planets that we are finding - how many more would we be able to find if it didn't rely on having just the right angle from our vantage point...

      Assuming that the angle is random, the calculation should be straightforward. I'm sure it's been done.

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    2. Re:Lucky us to see it this way: by MollyB · · Score: 4, Informative

      Makes me wonder the same thing about all the planet hunters and exo-planets that we are finding - how many more would we be able to find if it didn't rely on having just the right angle from our vantage point...

      There are many ways to detect extrasolar planets besides the angle of our line of sight. And, as the above poster noted, they've probably got those weird angles figured out, too.

    3. Re:Lucky us to see it this way: by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fortunately some of the most valuable data from planet hunts isn't from the individual discoveries, but rather the overall statistics of the likelihood of planet formation. You can account for known biases (i.e. Kepler will only see a fraction of the planetary systems it could due to the geometry of the occultations,) and back out the true statistics.

      While it should be fairly simple in this case (assuming theres not a correlation between the plane of a system and its likelihood of forming planets), you can actually do a lot more complicated things too. I know more about the de-biasing process for Near Earth Asteroids, and these can be very complex combinations of observational results and a priori knowledge. The models I've used most (developed by Bottke et. al.) did numerical monte carlo simulations of how asteroids move from the main belt into the NEA range, to understand the way individual sources lead them to distributed, and then combined this with observational results, as well as knowledge of detection biases (easier to see them closer and at opposition) to back out an estimate of the relative contribution of each source region.

      Most people involved know their data is spotty and limited, and a lot of work goes into accounting for the limitations and extracting as much information as possible from what they do have.

    4. Re:Lucky us to see it this way: by shermo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would you expect it to be random? Assuming we're looking at our own galaxy, would you expect some preference for orientation w.r.t. the galaxy's plane of rotation?

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    5. Re:Lucky us to see it this way: by yotto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Until we know a lot of them, we simply don't know. However, considering the galactic plane is tilted with respect to our own ecliptic, I suspect the working theory is that no, the two have little to nothing to do with each other.

      I'd be curious the percentages of stars that a mission like Kepler is looking at, that actually have planets transiting them. And if that percentage is roughly equal to what you'd expect with a random distribution of ecliptics. It would not surprise me in the least if the numbers matched.

  4. Re:I've always wondered by Abcd1234 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's a point. What you're seeing is lens flare and glare in the optics. The only star whose surface has been resolved into a disk is Betelgeuse, a red giant star located in Orion.

  5. Re:I've always wondered by bunratty · · Score: 3, Informative

    And Sol of course.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  6. Funny, I thought that was Beta Lyrae by rbrander · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...at least according to Larry Niven, in "The Soft Weapon" (1967) which was remade into a Star Trek cartoon script "The Slaver Weapon".

    "There was smoke across the sky, a trail of red smoke wound in a tight spiral coil..." - one of the first "Interstellar Tourist Attractions".

    It's been depicted in fan art:

    http://www.scifi-az.com/dixon/ddbetalyrae.htm ...and by the great Chesley Bonestell, who was doing astronomical paintings back before space travel, though this was in 1978:

    http://www.noreascon.org/retroart/images/Bonestell,%20Double%20Star.jpg

  7. Re:*Another* strange phenomenon? by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Informative

    "The Universe is not only stranger than we imagine it, it's stranger than we can imagine it. (A. Einstein)

    That's a misquote. It is a garbled quote of a line actually due to biologist J. B. S. Haldane who said "My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." The line is from "Possible Worlds" (sometimes titled "Possible Worlds and Other Papers.")

  8. Galaxies by telomerewhythere · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looking at that picture full resolution provided by bad astronomer, there are quite a few galaxies hanging around in the background. Awesome!

  9. Re:I've always wondered by NetNed · · Score: 2, Funny

    You know if you say Betelgeuse two more times that creepy pervert from the after life will appear, so be careful!.

    AHHHHH DAM, I said it once so if it is said one more time, the self proclaimed "Ghost with the most" will show up. You have been warned!

  10. Re:*Another* strange phenomenon? by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Have you noticed how, since the advent of the Internet as a massive information medium, there are suddenly all classes of strange, unexplained stuff out there?

    No. What I've noticed is that since the advent of the internet more and more people are getting access to really cool discoveries that would otherwise have been relegated to scientific journals, and accessed only by scientists in the related field(s).

    I'm sorry... but either 21st century scientists are really lame, or we humans know *shit* about the universe and the laws that rule it. Wonder which one it is...

    We know more than we've ever known before. The thing is, every time we find a real answer to something we end up creating twenty new questions. That's the way human progress has always worked, and that's why science is so friggin' awesome. The more we figure out, the more new things there are to figure out!

  11. Re:I've always wondered by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The star with the spiral is behind a self produced dust cloud. It makes it look more dramatic.

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  12. Re:What made them think to do this? by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 2, Informative

    Basically every picture you see from space gets that treatment. They take pictures using cameras with bandpass filters in the optics, then simply assign 2 or 3 channels to colors if there's more than 1 channel. Unless they want an "as it might be seen" picture they won't use R/G/B filters.

  13. links, paper by melikamp · · Score: 3, Informative

    ESA page with the full-size image.

    Paper [pdf] by Mark Morris, Raghvendra Sahai, Keith Matthews, Judy Cheng, Jessica Lu, Mark Claussen and Carmen Sanchez-Contreras.

    Abstract. [some formatting may be lost] The extreme carbon star, AFGL 3068, is losing mass at a rate in excess of 104 M yr1 , and has so far been detected only in the infrared because it is hidden by a thick dust photosphere having a color temperature of 300K. Using the ACS camera on HST, we have imaged AFGL 3068 with broad-band lters at 0.6 and 0.8 m and nd a thin, apparently continuous spiral arc winding 4 or 5 times around the location of the star, from angular radii of 2 to 10 arcsec. We interpret this as the projection of nested spiral shells such as were predicted to occur when the mass-losing star is a member of a binary system. In this case, the illumination is presumably provided by ambient galactic starlight. Subsequent near-IR observations with the NIRC2 camera on the Keck II telescope using adaptive optics reveal that AFGL 3068 has two components separated by 0.11 arcsec, or 109 AU at a distance of 1 kpc. One very red component is presumably the mass-losing carbon star, while the other component is apparently a much bluer companion. Assuming each component has mass M(M ), and ignoring the projection of the separation vector, we nd the binary period to be 810 M0.5 yrs, strikingly comparable to the 710-yr separation of the shells obtained from the known outow velocity of 14.7 km s1 .

  14. Re:*Another* strange phenomenon? by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Have you noticed how, since the advent of the Internet as a massive information medium, there are suddenly all classes of strange, unexplained stuff out there?"

    The communications revoultion coincides with the revolution occuring in astronomical observations because both are based on the digital revolution.

    "I'm sorry... but either 21st century scientists are really lame, or we humans know *shit* about the universe and the laws that rule it. Wonder which one it is..."

    "The universe is composed mainly of hydrogen and ignorance" - The sidewalk astronomer.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  15. Re:*Another* strange phenomenon? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sorry... but either 21st century scientists are really lame, or we humans know *shit* about the universe and the laws that rule it. Wonder which one it is...

    No, it's more like this: There's billions of stars out there, and when you investigate billions of something you'll find oddities. Kinda like if you observed one child birth, you'd probably get the normal one. If you looked at many you'd find twins, triplets, quadruplets = binary/trinary/???nary star systems. You'd find handicapped children, one-egged twins, two-egged twins, handicapped children, siamese twins, stillborns, people borne with extra limbs and whatnot. We have, and have had, a pretty good idea of how a normal star is formed, lives and dies. We're still working on cataloging all the exceptions and oddities, but I don't think we're that clueless.

    --
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  16. Shakespear said it first. by PinkyGigglebrain · · Score: 4, Informative

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE / Hamlet Act 1. Scene V

    1. Re:Shakespear said it first. by maroberts · · Score: 4, Funny

      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE / Hamlet Act 1. Scene V

      It sounds much better in the original Klingon

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  17. Re:Lens Flare? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    They're taking really long exposures with a very sensitive sensor at the limits of engineering. The star on the right many have an incoming photon flux thousands to millions of times of the faint binary system. So the relative exposure means what little diffraction effects from the reflector mountings and aperture builds up a large lens flare over time on the bright stars.