Sony Breathes New Life Into Library Books

Barence writes "Sony has launched a new range of touchscreen eBook readers — and is breathing new life into the concept of public library books. The readers offer support for free eBook loans from local authority libraries. If you're lucky enough to be a member of a local library supporting the service (50 have signed up so far in the UK) you'll be able to visit its website, tap your library card number in and borrow any book in the eBook catalog, for free, for a period of 14 or 21 days. The odd thing about this is it works in a very similar way to the good old bricks-and-mortar library. While a title is out on loan, it's unavailable to others to borrow (unless the library has purchased multiple copies); it only becomes available again once the loan period expires and the book removes itself from your reader."

Comments

The Nook already does this in the US.

[wiredog]

IIRC, most libraries that loan e-books use the EPUB format, so any non-Kindle reader should be capable of borrowing library books.

Re:The Nook already does this in the US.

[networkBoy]

I thought the same thing about the DRM part.
This is the only 'good' use I've seen yet. I particularly like that it is automatic return from loan, that I don't have to drive to the library to return the books.
-nB

Re:The Nook already does this in the US.

[InlawBiker]

You can remove the DRM from EPUB, PDF and PRC (Amazon's flavor of Mobi DRM), but it's not easy enough for the general public to do. Google Mobidedrm and ineptpdf.pyw.

I do this for everything I've bought on my Kindle just on principal. Kindle doesn't support ePub, most likely so they can lock you into their evil monopoly plans. If I had it to do over again I'd get a device that supports ePub, just to avoid the hassle. In this case I don't mind the DRM too much.

Re:The Nook already does this in the US.

[nabsltd]

Loaned books, especially free ones, strike me as one of the few valid uses of DRM I've seen.

All eBooks with DRM are loaned.

I hope this dies on the vine.

[grub]

I'm against this with every fiber of my being and hope it dies.

The odd thing about this is it works in a very similar way to the good old bricks-and-mortar library. While a title is out on loan, it's unavailable to others to borrow (unless the library has purchased multiple copies)

Sony has devised a system of artificially restricting access to books, effectively a short-term, no end-user-cost license. This is different than libraries buying X copies of a book for loan, it's DRM for books.

.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the same thing as a library except you can't steal the book. So go ahead and shut down every library out there.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it is DRM for book. But, you're only borrowing the book, for free, as you would if you visited your local library. You would end libraries? Get a grip. This is useful DRM.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[TheCRAIGGERS]

I know what you're saying, but seems like a decent compromise. Besides the obvious "give ebooks away for free" what do you think would work better?

Frankly, I'm surprised Sony is working with libraries at all given their previous stances on sharing copyrighted material.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[jimboindeutchland]

For Christ's sake, why do you have to be so negative? How is this any different to normal library books? I think this is a great idea and could save a lot of people money especially when it comes to school/technical/reference books. It would probably kill the O'Reilly bookshelf.

I wish they'd start doing something like this but with music and movies. I know, it'll never happen.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[sonicmerlin]

But you get free access to these books, and you can download them from the comfort of your house. I don't like DRM either, but renting something for free doesn't strike me as a problem.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[dave420]

Without Sony's technique, no one would be getting free electronic books from these libraries at all. DRM often gives content providers the ability to get their content out into people's hands, albeit with restrictions, which is obviously better than them not having DRM and simply refusing to offer up their content in a digital fashion. Yes, the world would be a much better place without the need for DRM, but that's not the world we live in. Content providers need to do everything they can to protect their content, otherwise they will put it in a safe and never let anyone see it, as without their content, they are nothing. DRM, in this case, is the same as the glass cases around museum exhibits. Sure, they stop you from touching the contents, but if the museum didn't have glass cases they would not put anything on display at all, as the exhibit could be stolen or damaged. So the choice is glass cases & the ability to view the exhibits, or no glass cases and no chance of seeing the exhibits at all. Shit analogy, I know. I'll shut up now.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

Is there any exception made if the book is in the public domain?

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[arth1]

The main difference is that for physical books, the book can't be lent out to more than one person at a time. With e-books, this is an artificial barrier that makes absolutely no sense except as life support for a dying publishing industry.

Another difference is that if I don't return a library book at the due date, the library doesn't send out stealth ninjas in the middle of the night to replace the book with a brick. While I may have to pay a nominal fine if I return it late, I'm still in control of the book until I give up that control.

In this case, Sony wants what's best for the publisher and worst for the reader from each of the two technologies (paper books and e-books), which I think is neither fair nor is going to cause a lot of sales.

Barnes & Noble Nook also has a crippled lending scheme, the difference being that it's not library based, but allows people to lend books to others. Except that they too have crippled it into uselessness. First of all, it's restricted to some books (generally those that don't sell). And they have to be bought through B&N, and not any third party (like ereader.com, Fictionwise or others that also use the peanutpress format). And both the lender and borrower have to have active accounts with B&N, as well as a nook. And finally, there's also the same artificial imitate-dead-trees limitation of one reader at a time because that's more restrictive, not because it makes sense from a digital perspective.

I think it's time that the e-book producers stop pissing in the well, and realise that while getting more for more is sellable, getting less for more isn't.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[MozeeToby]

Your knee jerk reaction is everything that is wrong with blind idealism. Yes, this is DRM, it's DRM that opens up functionality that would not otherwise be economically feasible or even legally defensible. Do authors deserve to get paid for their work? Because unless they don't, you can't have libraries giving out unlimited, copyable, no-return-required copies of books. This is the only realistic way that libraries will continue to exist in any form if we move towards a 100% digital distribution, an idea that I personally believe isn't as far fetched as a lot of people seem to think it is.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[MozeeToby]

The department of Sony that runs their eBook stuff is apparently run quite a bit different from the rest of the company. They support open standards, don't heavily push DRM, and don't try to sue their customers into oblivion. It's a big company with a lot of diversity, I'd bet that 95% of the people that work in the eBook department have no significant contact with people in the games, movies, or music department. For all intents and purposes they may as well be their own company.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[delinear]

Sony is made up of many different wings under one umbrella. The hardware department responsible for pushing the e-reader obviously think this is a good move, since it's likely to shift a few units (actually if I'm paying money for a book I like the physical copy, I can put it on my bookshelf, it's easier to read and hold, I don't care if I forget it on a train, etc - being able to get a free copy from the library makes these e-readers marginally more attractive to me), and they're probably allowed to do this right now because it doesn't step on any other department's toes. I can imagine if it was the walkman department suggesting libraries allow free music loans, they'd be shot down in short order by the music wing of the company. Still, I think it's positive and while I'd wish they didn't impose the artificial restriction, I can see the reason why they'd want to (if they didn't you could effectively keep the book forever, the library wouldn't mind renewing it every two weeks or whatever because they'd have unlimited copies).

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Useful DRM"?

Get a hold of yourself, man.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[mcgrew]

What's wrong with giving them away? Giving them away results in greater book sales, odd as that sounds. Cory Doctorow credits his free downloads of his books to his status as a best selling author. One publishing company, trying to find out how badly piracy hurt book sales, was surprised to find that when the books were scanned and hit the internet a few weeks after initial publication, there was a second sales spike -- the piracy HELPED his business.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Anonymous Coward]

The main difference is that for physical books, the book can't be lent out to more than one person at a time.

I know that. It doesn't really matter, they shouldn't be able to rent out books to multiple people at once without paying more. So the logical thing to do is to prevent them to lend multiple books out unless they buy more than 1 copy.

Another difference is that if I don't return a library book at the due date, the library doesn't send out stealth ninjas in the middle of the night to replace the book with a brick. While I may have to pay a nominal fine if I return it late, I'm still in control of the book until I give up that control.

So basically you want to be allowed to steal the book. I think that's being an asshole to other people who also want to rent it, not something logical that should be allowed. You don't deserve that control at all.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Anonymous Coward]

And with zero scarcity driving the cost down to zero for all books, publishing will will go from dying to dead. This is not the RIAA here, authors need book sales to get paid. Rant all you want about free information, but unless you have a real solution for the business model, the only authors you'll see dedicating themselves to the art are cranks writing manifestos and dilettantes who are already well-off enough to do it as a hobby.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[IndustrialComplex]

Honestly, what would you want?

There has to be some sort of return on producing books, are we going to rely on people doing it as a hobby, or go back to the old days where you need a patron? (Hope there is some rich guy who likes your genre and hires an author?)

This isn't like the music problem where mandatory license fees prop up the RIAA and related companies who have a vested interest in keeping the market limited.

There is NOTHING preventing free books from being released by authors now. There is effectively ZERO barriers to entry. You don't even need your own internet connection.

1. Write book at home on an old 286
2. Borrow someone's connection and upload it to the web.
3. DONE.

Your book is infinitely published.

And unlike the music industry there are currently no major laws with regard to publishing which force authors to support one company that has been granted a monopoly. This system is evolving exactly as it should and probably in the best way it can.

If you were attacking the length of copyright terms, I could understand, but this IS the work produced by someone of their own free will and can be released in a manner of their choosing. I see nothing wrong with this.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[TheCRAIGGERS]

I'm not going to argue that the outmoded business that was based solely on a physical product need to reinvent themselves, but I still don't see a better idea in your reply.

Forget all the CEOs and semi-useless middle management that populate most of the publishing industry. If you freely allow bits to be copied, how are the authors going to get paid?

Yes, hopefully authors will someday realize that ebooks allow them to cut out the middle man. Humorously, Sony is kind of cutting their own throat here. The only thing holding back authors from selling their own goods at their own rates to everybody are the limited popularity of ebooks. Once most people have an ebook reader and the dead-tree book becomes a thing of the past, publishers will be screwed. All the benefits and services they have provided over the years will become moot- printing, shipping, getting stores to put them on the shelves, etc. The authors only have to realize that the tables have turned.

We're already seeing this happen in the music biz- all because of the ipod. The Kindle is ebook's ipod, and the change is coming.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[delinear]

Yes - DRM on things I have paid for and should own is always a bad thing. DRM on something someone else has paid for and owns and is loaning to me free of charge is not even in the same league. It'd be nice not to have it, but if having it means we get a free service with lots of benefits and no disadvantages over the current system, I'd struggle to say that's a bad thing (albeit any kind of DRM raises a feeling of unease).

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[mcgrew]

If it's in the public domain you can download it free from many internet sources. No need to visit a library at all, unlesss you want the dead tree version.

Internet Archive
Gutengerg Project
lots of universities post PD books on the internet, as well as a lot of books that are still under copyright. I was assigned Only Yesterday in a history class I took in the late 1970s at SIU (I still have the book), and now It's on the internet as well. It's a good read, I reccomend it.

Plus, there are Creative Commons books out there as well.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Bigbutt]

You don't have to have a Nook to lend or read an ebook. Just the nook reader app. A friend loaded me Daemon from his iPhone to my iPad.

[John]

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Jhon]

In this case, Sony wants what's best for the publisher and worst for the reader from each of the two technologies (paper books and e-books), which I think is neither fair nor is going to cause a lot of sales.

So, what would you suggest? The publisher sells one ebook to a library that can then GIVE away the book? And if one library has it, why should any other library buy it? Just copy the first sold copy and give THAT away.

There NEEDS to be a financial incentive for a publisher to publish books. And there NEEDS to be a financial incentive for an author to write a book. If you take away their ability to make money on their works, you will effectively kill the majority of new materials. No new novels, no new poems, no new articles, etc.

How can this not be seen by the "information wants to be free" crowd?

I have ZERO problem with loaning an ebook I have to someone and not having it available to me until it is "returned". I have ZERO problem with a library only being able to "loan" an ebook out in volumes that match their license until the book is 'returned'.

I *DO* believe we should be able to re-sell ebook copies just like paper copies, though.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[IndustrialComplex]

Giving them away results in greater book sales, odd as that sounds.

Book sales increase now because the book IS a better product when compared to ebooks. If ebooks became the better product (let's say an ereader was invented that out-performed physical books), the current situation would not exist.

The only reason it works now is because most people still prefer physical books. You would probably have seen a similar result for music if when MP3 players were still crap, you released a digital copy of every CD available for free. People would get a taste of the product, but still prefer the physical media.

When the physical media is inferior, those sales will dry up.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[smart_ass]

Disagree and disagree

With e-books, this is an artificial barrier that makes absolutely no sense except as life support for a dying publishing industry.

Or it is good for whomever created the work that you want to view. If I buy a copy of Microsofot Office (not that I would) it is also an artificial barrier that I dont get a milllion copies, why should a book be any different.

Another difference is that if I don't return a library book at the due date, the library doesn't send out stealth ninjas in the middle of the night to replace the book with a brick.

This is the FEATURE I like best. Most likely I have already read the book and have left it at the office or my kids have hidden it under a pile of stuffed animals in the corner as a test for me. Total additional cost to me $0.00

Now I will agree that they need more titles available this way, but once they do, you now have a 100% legitimate way to get many books 24/7 for free.

Sure if its popular you can find a torrent ... but wouldn't it feel better to do it legitimately?

Now if I lose the book ... this is better still ...

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[WillAdams]

you wrote:

>hopefully authors will someday realize that ebooks allow them to cut out the middle man.

Believe me, we do not want authors self-publishing --- I've seen raw author manuscripts and graphics and save for a very, very talented few, they are not something one would want to read of their own free will.

Publishers add a great deal of value by:

  - filtering out texts not worth publishing
  - editing text for consistency / readability / style
  - paying for a nice book design which suits the material
  - processing graphics so as to be suitable for printing / viewing
  - arranging text, tables and graphics on a page so as to allow easy finding of them from the point of mention

Look around Lulu or Smashwords and see what doing w/o such results in.

William

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[misexistentialist]

There NEEDS to be a financial incentive for a publisher to publish books.

Not if books are no longer "published"

And there NEEDS to be a financial incentive for an author to write a book.

Seems to me the only only authors guaranteed money write crap. Does the world really need Sarah Palin's second book?

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[hedwards]

I wouldn't be surprised, this is a swipe at the second hand market. Most libraries stock up on large quantities of popular books to keep the wait manageable. When the demand drops they sell the extras to recoup a portion of the costs. So the book publishers basically get dinged multiple times. First they lose sales from the people who borrowed, then they lose from the second hand sale.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Shompol]

So basically you want to be allowed to steal the book. I think that's being an asshole to other people who also want to rent it, not something logical that should be allowed. You don't deserve that control at all.

1. Yes, I do. We all do.
2. What about books written over 100 years ago, they are out of copyright now, right?
3. Why do we have to wait 100 years for it to happen? So the publisher's great-grand-children don't have to work for living?
4. What about kids from poor families? You are denying their right for intellectual development because they cannot afford to pay for electronic copy, that costs you nothing to create? What about middle-class kids? As far as I am concerned, they should be PAID to read books, not the other way around.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[supersloshy]

And with zero scarcity driving the cost down to zero for all books, publishing will will go from dying to dead. This is not the RIAA here, authors need book sales to get paid. Rant all you want about free information, but unless you have a real solution for the business model, the only authors you'll see dedicating themselves to the art are cranks writing manifestos and dilettantes who are already well-off enough to do it as a hobby.

Frankly, I don't care if the book industry is dying as-is, and you shouldn't either. What do you think happened when the printing press was invented? When the phonograph was invented? The camera? The video recorder/camcorder? And now, the Internet? It's all the same thing; "our outdated business is dying" and it's because something better is just around the corner. "People won't buy music/books/movies if you give it away for free", huh? Look at Jonathan Coulton, Binaerpilot, Renard, Lemon Demon (who made The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny), Brad Sucks*, Cory Doctorow, Lawrence Lessig, Randall Munroe**, Flattr, Jamendo***, etc. There's an infinite amount of ways to make money on something besides directly selling it. People will always be making art because it's human nature to do so; people will always give money for things because it's human nature to help out. If you absolutely need money to want to make something (besides production costs), then it's not art, and if the Internet helps get rid of that then good riddance.

* All five of which are successful indie artists that give away most of their music and don't care if people "pirate" it; I highly recommend checking them out by the way.

** These three are successful indie authors that I also recommend checking out; Randall, you might know, is the author of XKCD and the book sales from XKCD Vol. 0 helped to build a school in Laos.

*** These are websites that let people give away things for free, while still allowing artists/authors to make money.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[k.a.f.]

There NEEDS to be a financial incentive for a publisher to publish books. And there NEEDS to be a financial incentive for an author to write a book. If you take away their ability to make money on their works, you will effectively kill the majority of new materials. No new novels, no new poems, no new articles, etc.

Wrong. There needs to be a financial incentive for authoring and publishing for a caste of professional writers and publishing specialists to be viable. It has not been established yet whether this, in turn, is in fact necessary for an adequate supply of literature to be available to society, or whether masterpieces will be produced anyway and their authors sustained by means other than per-printing fees (like Shakespeare's plays). Many, many outcomes are possible and most haven't even been tried yet; but insisting on a model based on a scarcity of physical objects that has become completely pointless, just because it's what you know and what you currently do, is as disingenuous as subsidizing buggy-whips.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Jhon]

Wrong.

You're wrong.

It has not been established yet whether this, in turn, is in fact necessary for an adequate supply of literature to be available to society, or whether masterpieces will be produced anyway and their authors sustained by means other than per-printing fees (like Shakespeare's plays). Many, many outcomes are possible and most haven't even been tried yet; but insisting on a model based on a scarcity of physical objects that has become completely pointless, just because it's what you know and what you currently do, is as disingenuous as subsidizing buggy-whips.

I would strongly argue that it HAS been established -- and a successful model has NOT been found to replace it.

"...disingenuous as subsidizing buggy-whips". Interesting, but failed analogy. Buggy whips were no longer necessary/desired. It wasn't that they were replaced by "virtual buggy whips" which still required a ton of work creating and marketing and were desired by the public. Books/literature are *NOT* on the "obsolete" pile. The media on which they are presented has just changed.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[PCM2]

really hate all those cranks and dilettantes like Shakespeare and Milton and Homer and Cervantes. They sure wrote crap.

Shakespeare was a working actor, director, and playwright. He mainly wrote plays only to the extent that he needed plays to perform. For money. He wasn't reliant on the publishing model; the First Folio wasn't actually published until after he was dead.

Milton was a crank. He was a religious zealot writing polemic about his own rather fundamentalist view of Christianity. Doesn't mean it's not classic literature, but it doesn't support your sarcasm.

Tough to say how Homer made his money. For all I know, his poems made him so well-known that he became very, very rich. But nobody knows. It's likely, however, that Homer's poems were passed on through the oral tradition and only later committed to writing (once the alphabet was invented -- they're that old). So if Homer did make money off them, he did so through oral readings. If you think that model is going to work for today's Star Wars novels and the Twilight books, great.

Cervantes, though -- now here you fall flat. Cervantes was flat broke until he wrote the first part of Don Quixote. His earlier pastoral romances hadn't made any money, but Don Quixote did. And here's where his troubles began, because Don Quixote became so popular that some guy took it upon himself to write an unauthorized sequel. Bet Cervantes wished there were some copyright laws to protect him then, eh? When Cervantes wrote his own second part of Don Quixote, he satirizes the false sequel in a number of ways, including having Don Quixote meet one of its characters and forcing him to admit that he had never met the real Don Quixote before. Cervantes was never rich, but he did live his later life as a professional writer and internationally known "man of letters."

So maybe next time before you go rattling off a list of authors, you should actually hit the books and know a little bit whereof you speak.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[mcgrew]

You would probably have seen a similar result for music if when MP3 players were still crap, you released a digital copy of every CD available for free.

That's where the RIAA screwed up royally; CDs are still superior to MP3s (though not FLAC or SHN). But their take on it was that they have radio, while indies only have file sharing, Facebook, and MySpace. The RIAA's war against P2P is really against their competetitors, the independant artists.

People still like buying things. Things they can share, give away, OWN, display on a shelf with pride. With an MP3 or an ebook, you own nothing. MP3 and ebook "sales" are for people with so little money thay have no room for things. If I was a dorm-bound penniless college student I'd be downloading MP3s anstead of buying CDs, too.

Note I buy indie CDs straight from the bands themselves. If I want an MP3 I'll rip it from the CD, and it will be DRM-free and ripped at whatever bitrate I want.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[commodore64_love]

>>>If you absolutely need money to want to make something (besides production costs), then it's not art

I notice you still accept a paycheck for the "art" you create every single week (random guess: technology hardware or software). Why is it that you think you should be paid for your labors, but not book writers? Hmmmm. Maybe we ought to stop paying you too. I'll just steal whatever you produce w/o paying you.

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[LanMan04]

There NEEDS to be a financial incentive for a publisher to publish books. And there NEEDS to be a financial incentive for an author to write a book.

Statement 1: True
Statement 2: False

Re:I hope this dies on the vine.

[Mr. Slippery]

Similarly: One cannot "steal" from a slave.

No, not similarly at all.

Copying is not theft, because the author is my personal slave...

Except that no one is enslaving any authors. Enslavement requires force -- if the "slave" is free to leave without threat of force, he or she is not a slave. No force is being applied at all if I (hypothetically) make a copy of a book. Force is only being applied if the author, or the government on behalf of the author, applies force to prevent me from making a copy. If anything, copyright is closer to slavery than is unauthorized copying, though it's a stupid and useless comparison in either case.

Copying is not theft because theft deprives someone of the use of the stolen thing; copying a book does not deprive anyone else of the use of that book.

Theft of another human being's labor, or the product of that labor (cotton, books), without compensating them is the very definition of slavery.

If you believe that using the product of another person's labor without compensating them is "theft" and "the very definition of slavery", then you must be against libraries in the first place -- or any other loan of a book. You must think the world that RMS outlines is a utopia, then. Indeed, you must think that everyone who's ever heard or read one of my poems, or heard one of my songs, owes me money. Hell, according to that reasoning you owe me money for reading this post -- it's a product of my labor, after all. You can pay me here.

Or, more likely, you haven't thought the issue through in any sensible way. Comparing making a copy to holding slaves is kind of a dead giveaway about that.

"It is good that authors of quality work are compensated" does not imply "the best way to see that authors of quality work are compensated is to use government force to create an artificial monopoly on the making of copies," nor does it imply "All persons viewing a work should be forced to pay a tithe to that work's creator."

Sony?

[mcgrew]

Ever since I was a victim of XCP there's no way I'll touch ANYTHING Sony makes. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

Honestly, guys, stop buying computer gear from a company who would root paying customers' computers and destroy legally installed software.

Re:Sony?

[localman57]

I'll buy gear from any company that finds religion, and starts adhering to standards. Sony is now using SD cards in their video cameras, (and also memoryStick) using the MP4 format (better than .mov, at least I feel), is doing much better about using standard connectors for things, and is offers eBook readers with no wireless component, so you'll always be able to load them with eBooks without worring about big brother.

Yeah, they did the XCP thing. And ripped Linux off of the PS3. But if you want to send a message, you buy the products they make that conform to standards (assuming they're worth buying), and don't buy the ones that don't. That's the stuff that influences what they make. Just crossing a company off the list for something they did years ago isn't a way to affect change.

Re:Sony?

[IndustrialComplex]

Yeah, they did the XCP thing. And ripped Linux off of the PS3. But if you want to send a message, you buy the products they make that conform to standards (assuming they're worth buying), and don't buy the ones that don't. That's the stuff that influences what they make. Just crossing a company off the list for something they did years ago isn't a way to affect change.

So I buy the stuff from them that meets my needs and conforms to standards... until it doesn't.

Sony's actions with regard to OtherOS makes this an impossible goal. They literally altered a product after the fact. You don't have the protection of buying a standard because most of the time, you aren't making decisions based on standards, but features. They altered the deal, and you just have to pray that they don't alter it any further.

You can't change their ways by buying their 'good' products if they can turn them into 'bad' products at will.

They have escaped your bounds for which a company can be controlled by purchasing their good products.

To paraphrase another movie quote: at this point, The only winning move is not to play.

A limited # of digital copies?

[iONiUM]

I think there's some problem going on in the world of business while we transition from physical things to digital copies. I mean, I think it's great this library is offering digital copies to read for free, don't get me wrong, but why is there an artificial limitation on the number? Is this because if it was infinite nobody would need to buy a book anymore?

I just find it really strange that we goto such lengths to treat something that is, basically, a free resource (copying digital bits) as something that is finite (an actual book).

Re:A limited # of digital copies?

[bsDaemon]

The cost of the book goes to cover paying author royalties, the editors, the type setters, etc. Just because you don't have a "press" anymore doesn't mean you don't still have pre-press. This seems "good enough" for now. Digital copies of books, movies and music are already cheaper than the physical ones, and most commercially-produced content isn't going to be free-as-in-beer, because they can't operate like that. What's good for software doesn't necessarily work for other things.

Re:A limited # of digital copies?

[bieber]

Unfortunately, we live in a nation where everyone has been conditioned to believe that effectively-endless copyright protection is some kind of inalienable personal right, not a balance to be struck between society and authors for the greater good of society as a whole. So when ridiculous crap like self-deleting downloads come along, people don't think "Why am I letting these people seize control of my own computing devices away from me so that they can protect their artificial monopoly?", but rather "Oh, how nice of them to offer for free what we should be paying arbitrarily determined sums of money for...

Re:A limited # of digital copies?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, actually... it takes a lot of resources to make a physical book. Which is why I understand paying say $7.99 for a physical copy. That appears (all those paperbacks all over) to pay the author, the publisher, the printer, ink-maker, paper-maker, cover-artist, etc., everyone---everyone makes a profit or they wouldn't be doing it.

In the digital world, you pretty much only need to compensate the author---the rest of the costs become jokingly low (and if they're not, you're doing something wrong). So how come electronic books don't sell for 1/1000th's of the physical book price?

Now, imagine if a digital copy of *any* book cost $0.25. It would be more hassle to plug-in your device than to just buy a new copy per device. It would mean *way* more sales---there are plenty of books I'd like to look though, but don't wanna pay a few dollars for---that's why I still go to physical book stores. You don't think the authors can make a living of 0.25/book download?

Re:A limited # of digital copies?

[TheCRAIGGERS]

I'm guessing the authors already make a living off less than that.

But to answer your question, they sell it for the same cost out of plain greed. Consumers have already been conditioned to shelling out $8 US for a paperback book (nevermind the insane cost of a hardcover) so why shouldn't they expect consumers will keep right on doing it when in electronic form?

My great worry is that all the extra profit is going straight to the top, instead of the authors for which I feel it rightfully belongs. Hopefully when ebooks become more popular, authors will realize they no longer need publishers for all the things they used to handle for them- the intricate printing process, shipping it and negotiating space on store shelves, marketing, etc. When this happens (and I feel it's already begun) I believe we will see cheaper books by authors who are paid more in line with what they deserve.

Re:A limited # of digital copies?

[countSudoku()]

Agreed! Plus, something the DRM friendly jokesters from a few threads above don't realize when they lay down their "oh, it's good for everyone with the DRM and the restrictions" logic is that this is a play by Sony to get their eBook readers into peoples hands and gain traction on Kindle/iPad/etc. It's nothing more. Save me your "it's just like the library" bullshit, people. It's about Sony making money and feeding you more DRMed content, even when it's freely available elsewhere without restrictions, other than physical. Let's all play the DRM game and say it's good for everyone when it's only good for one party. Sony sucks balls. Their products show this in the many restrictions and their lack of respect for their own customers. Fuck Sony.

Re:A limited # of digital copies?

[LWATCDR]

I keep hearing people talk about artificial scarcity.
What we are actually dealing with is an artificial abundance caused by digital copying.
People keep talking about how the cost to produce a book, movie, TV Show, or song is now practically nothing.

That is a false statement.
The cost to produce those things has been decreased they are still far from zero.
Let's take a book for example.
It may take an author six months too write a book.
It may take an editor three weeks to edit it.
It may take a typesetter/layout artist a day to lay it out and check the proofs.

That is all labor and costs money.
Now the author often gets no pay for his labor. He is making an investment that he will get paid.
The publisher invests his money in the editing laying out of the book for production as well as advertising.
Most books do not make a profit.

The way the system works is that we pay a small amount for book, movie, TV Show, and more Music compared to what it cost to make because the cost of duplication means that the cost can be spread over a large number of people.

Digital copying provided the illusion that the cost to produce these things is zero.
It is not. The cost to duplicate them is very close to zero. That is the problem
The end result should be that the cost per person should come down but it shouldn't become zero. If ti becomes zero then production will stop.
There are two problems.
The current producers want the decreased cost of duplication to mean increased profits for them. They see this as windfall.
Consumers are ignoring the cost of production and only seeing the cost of duplication and want it for free.

The problem really isn't one of economics but one of greed. Actually two problems of greed.
The greed of the media companies that want an even larger profit margin.
and
The greed of consumers that want the media but want it for free.

If we could just solve human greed then we wouldn't have this problem.
The consumers would be willing to pay a fair price and the produces would be happy with a fair profit.

Re:A limited # of digital copies?

[Buelldozer]

Digital copies of books are cheaper than physical ones? The truth of that is declining every day.

Here, look at this:

http://www.amazon.com/Changes-Novel-Dresden-Files-ebook/dp/B0030DHPAW/ref=pd_sim_kinc_7?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2

The kindle edition is $12.99, price set by publisher.
The paperback edition is $9.99, price set by publisher.

That's right the publisher, in this case Penguin, has decided that the digital version should be MORE expensive than the the dead tree version. This is becoming more common as time goes on. I put the blame for this squarely on Apple and the iPad. If you don't know why then go look it up.

Whats odd?

[bsDaemon]

I know that it doesn't really "cost" anything to make digital reproductions of digital goods, which is probably the point the summary was hinting at with the "odd thing" bit, however this seems like a fairly decent compromise to get a new media format worked into the traditional model of how libraries function. It'll get more content out, expose more people to the library system, and probably help gain new acceptance for the technology. In a few years, the model will probably evolve -- most librarians I've known were all about anything to help get people reading, and would be towards the head of the pack in pushing for new ways to make it happen.

Re:Whats odd?

[wygit]

So do you have a solution to an author actually getting paid for their work, or a musician, or a filmmaker?

Or are they all just supposed to produce their works just for the joy of it?

I'm really asking here... I'm curious as to what your solution is, once 'they get their heads around and adapt to" this new way of distributing media.

LCD

[DogDude]

I see the move to e-books in libraries as a bad thing. If anything, it's the antithesis of what a library is for. Libraries exist so that everybody, no matter how poor or disenfranchised can both educate and entertain themselves (LCD = "lowest common denominator"). Anybody can read a book. Only the wealthy can afford e-book readers and the subsequent fees. If libraries move to having titles on ebooks instead of having hard copies, that immediately eliminates people who cannot or won't buy those silly, overpriced book readers.

Not only is it disenfranchising, but it's putting control of information even more in the hands of just a few big corporations. Who trusts Sony with their books? I certainly don't. What happens if Sony discontinues their service? What happens if Sony goes under? What happens if a suit at Sony decides that it's no longer in their best interests to continue this program? A book is simple, and nobody, short of a thief or vandal, can take those away from people or libraries.

I'll keep checking out physical books from my library, and I'll continue to pres my library to acquire more physical books, instead of Sony licenses.

Re:LCD

[Lemmy Caution]

I see the move to eBooks as providing a better hedge against the loss of a book than the physical possession of the book is. That "short of a thief or vandal" (or simply losing a book) is a much bigger drain on resources than you're letting on.

Libraries also have problems with space. The San Francisco library actually had to shrink its collection when it moved to its new facility, and other libraries are facing similar problems, especially for periodical collections.

Libraries have been subscribing to electronic databases of articles for ages, too. The risk of ProQuest's ABI/Inform going under is probably a bit higher than Sony disappearing, yet it seems to be working for libraries.

An e-Reader can be acquired for about $100, as well - hardly the stuff of "only the wealthy." Sony is providing e-Readers to the libraries, as well. Granted, they too can be lost/vandalized.

Re:LCD

[Again]

I see the move to e-books in libraries as a bad thing. If anything, it's the antithesis of what a library is for. Libraries exist so that everybody, no matter how poor or disenfranchised can both educate and entertain themselves (LCD = "lowest common denominator"). Anybody can read a book. Only the wealthy can afford e-book readers and the subsequent fees. If libraries move to having titles on ebooks instead of having hard copies, that immediately eliminates people who cannot or won't buy those silly, overpriced book readers.

You talk of the LCD as the poorest person who is unable to afford an ebook reader. Well consider the LCD who is bed-ridden or for some reason unable to visit the public library. This type of model allows them to now also make use of the library.

Re:LCD

[wygit]

"Only the wealthy can afford e-book readers and the subsequent fees."
      1) Only the wealthy can afford computers to PUT ebooks on their ebook readers
      2) The price of a reader is dropping to around the price of 5 hardbacks, if you buy hardbacks, which I don't. Maybe the price of 15-20 paperbacks?
      3) What fees? I've had my Sony Reader for a couple of years now, and I've never paid a fee. Everything on my computer that I transfer to the Reader is either from Gutenberg, Baen Books (some free, some just cheap) Fictionwise, a few direct-from-the-author books, or the library. The only DRM books I have are from the library.
      4) Sony has no control whatsoever over my books. Except for whatever books I might buy from the Sony store, which I haven't, they don't even KNOW what books I have. I download books to my computer and transfer a copy to my Reader. Books are backed up with everything else on my computer.
      5) As others have pointed out, the library books use DRM to basically, 'auto check-back' the book. After the 3 weeks or whatever, you can't open the book any more and someone else can check it out. I'm cool with that; I believe in authors getting paid.

Your whole second paragraph seems to be based on the "Amazon deleted the Orwell books off the Kindles" story, which is why I don't have a Kindle. But it requires the vendor to have a way to communicate with the reader, which Amazon has and Sony doesn't.

And lastly, yes, this is old news. Overdrive has been around for awhile.

Re:LCD

[Jeremy Erwin]

Libraries also have problems with space. The San Francisco library actually had to shrink its collection when it moved to its new facility, and other libraries are facing similar problems, especially for periodical collections.

No, It didn't have to shrink its collection. It made that choice.

Re:LCD

[michael_cain]

I sympathize with your perspective, but once the cost of hardware comes down some more (OLPC's XO-3 is targeting $75, and could be stripped down even more for an ebook-only device), and the publishers and authors figure out that there's an optimal pricing strategy, the libraries are going to be in trouble no matter what.

The "right" pricing scheme, based on what has worked for other types of content, has three tiers: initial release at $10-25, depending on the author and some other factors, mass market release at $4-8 a few months later, and when sales fall far enough, library replacement at $1-2. If you want the ebook version of the new Stephen King novel the day it comes out, you pay a hardcover price for it. Not because it's hardcover, but because it's new content. If you are willing to wait a few months, you pay the paperback price. And if you want to read last year's release, it costs a buck or two. A secondary reason for making the long term price that low is that it undercuts piracy.

By the time you get to the last step, most of the money should be going to the author. The publishers should cover their costs — and they do have costs, for editing and publicity and such, even for ebooks — on the first releases. If you're the author, which do you prefer: 10,000 loans from the libraries or 10,000 sales at a buck, most of it going to you? A prolific author probably earns a significant revenue stream just on those long-tail sales. At a dollar, lots of people are going to prefer the ease of buying a copy rather than making a physical trip to the library, or waiting in queue to access the library's copy of the ebook.

If I'm the publishers, one of my goals is to put the libraries and used-book stores out of business.

Scheme already running in Hamburg

[gondel]

I am not sure if this is really news. We have had a scheme like this in Hamburg for much more than a year. http://www.bibliothek-digital.de/hamburg You take a book or newspaper out and it is unavailable to others, exactly as described in the article. You cannot return an article early, even if you are finished with it. Perhaps the main difference is that in Hamburg, the selection of books is very weak, but the selection of newspapers and weeklies is better.

I like it.

[Carik]

Sounds good to me. I've got no objection to paying authors -- or their editors! -- for their work, and I think it's reasonable that libraries should have to pay for books just as they always have. I would hope that the price would drop if printing wasn't involved, but the author still has to make a living somehow. And the DRM makes sense to me in this case... it leaves you with a system exactly like the old one, which works fine.

On any personally owned ebook or music, of course, I'll avoid DRM, but on a library book it's no more restrictive than their current policies.

Not odd at all

[elrous0]

It's not odd at all that the library would be required to treat these as physical books. It was probably the only way to get the publishers on board. Otherwise, why would anyone ever buy a book if an unlimited number of people could check it out for free whenever they wanted to?

If libraries can, why can't I?

[Albanach]

One 'benefit' of DRM is that it should make lending or even reselling trivial. Frankly I don't mind if there's even a small admin charge to cover the DRM costs.

I bought my first book on my iPad. Told a friend about it and they said "oh, I'd love to borrow that when you're finished'. Immediately it is clear that I have rented the book and I have to say sorry. The user experience is crap. Users are losing a right they have held for centuries.

Barnes and Noble have made a pathetic attempt by allowing one time 14 day sharing. Really it's just an advertising tool for the Nook.

Jesus would be so confused by the economy

[RabbitWho]

Okay Jesus what we're gonna do is we're gonna keep these loaves and fishes in this little box.
- But my child, there is no need, there is an infinite number of them.
yes but Jesus Christ we don't want them decreasing in value, people won't appreciate your creative energy.

Re:Jesus would be so confused by the economy

[RabbitWho]

Oh and god forbid bread-makers should go out of business!

This is what I don't understand, I spend most of the money I have on things like books and educational equipment if it's not on rent or food. If we had access to infinite food would we throw it away so a small portion of people could still make profits on selling it? Surely it would be better for them and everyone else to have free food instead? If we had access to an unlimited amount of land would we still make people buy it and rent it? Why? So the person who benefits from that can have more land? Wouldn't it make sense to let the tenants and the landlords have the infinite land for free?

And here we go! We have this exact situation with information and we're trying to limit it! what on earth is going on! People have been dreaming about this for centuries and we're charging for things FOR NO REASON.

One of the greatest modern Irish writers, John Mc Gahren, died of old age shortly before this whole e-book craze. He survived on a special state grant for artists and writers. The money from his book sales actually wasn't enough to support him. He had some bestselling books! These are the people whose incomes we are trying to think? Don't you think an infinite free library would have been worth more to him than the amount of money he earned selling those books? You think he wrote to make money!? You think that people will stop writing when they're not getting paid!? There is more writing being published and more published writers now than ever before in the history of the world.

We haven't got unlimited space or unlimited energy or unlimited food yet. These are the things we should pay for. I don't mind reading a blog that has an ad for things like this on the side, which I will buy with money I earn doing concrete things. But unlimited access to books and information wouldn't cost anyone a penny beyond the costs of electricity and bandwidth. It would make each and every one of us with access to a hundred dollar computer and the internet; writers, cleaners, artists, waitresses, CEOs - each and every one of us the richest people in the history of the world.

Re:Jesus would be so confused by the economy

[martin-boundary]

I know a lot of folks around here deplore such restrictions, but please remember that it's an artificial restriction on something you are not paying for, as a condition to access something that would not otherwise be available to you.

But you're wrong, it would be available to you. The world is full of authors who are willing to give away their work without compensation, eg academic works, religious works, topical news and press releases. The writing for pay model is actually a small part of the full spectrum of writing that's going on every day. If DRM was impossible and nobody paid for documents any more in the future, then we'd still have substantially the same choice available as we have now, although if the only thing you like to read are Stephen King novels, then you'd probably be out of luck.

The odd thing?

[jridley]

That's how all of the library loan systems I've used work. They can only have the number of files that they purchased out at once. Otherwise they could buy one copy and lend it to a million people at once. One service could buy one copy of everything and loan it to everyone for practically no cost.

Audiobook downloads work the same way.

How the heck else could it work, if authors are to ever get paid anything?