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PayPal Withholding Indie Game Dev's €600,000 Account
epee1221 writes "Markus Persson, a.k.a. Notch, the developer of Minecraft, posted on his development blog today that PayPal limited his account with unspecified cause on August 25th. Since then, payments for the alpha version of Minecraft have continued accumulating while Notch has been unable to withdraw them, and the account now contains over €600,000. PayPal recently told him it may take up to two more weeks for things to get sorted out and that if they conclude that there is funny business involved, they will keep the money."
This unfortunate news followed an announcement a few days ago that he and a friend would be starting a studio of their own to continue development on Minecraft and start working on a new project.
when it's paypal
Those guys are a law unto themselves, and their dispute resolution system adds new meaning to the word opaque.
I've had money removed from my account several years back (about £80) and spent 3 months on the phone trying to get it back, granted 2 of those months were talking to my bank (natwest) after being stonewalled by paypal, natwest decided at the end of 3 months to tell me they had no record of me ever making a complaint and that I would need to go to the police.
I swore off ever using paypal again But here I am, 3 years or so later with a paypal account I use regularly. Not having one is just far too much of a hindrance when it comes to things like using ebay, and paying for minecraft.
If paypal decides that there has been some "funny buisness" involved shouldnt they return the money to the origional accounts.
Almost exactly five years ago, Paypal froze $30k in Hurricane Katrina charity money raised by SomethingAwful, the story is here. They're still crooks now.
The CEOs were bouncing around in their piles of money so exuberantly that one got sick in his. The amount of money in your account fits our CEO frolicking needs perfectly. Thank you for the interest free loan, and don't ask about the funny smell on your money when you do receive it.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Google Checkout
PayPal is infamous for this.
Years ago, when I pulled my account information from them it was "common" knowledge in the eBay scene that if you were a seller and a buyer claimed it was a fraudulent sale, PayPal would pull the refund directly from your PayPal account without notice. If the funds were not in your PayPal account, they would pull it from your linked checking account, again, without notice.
The common strategy was to setup a second "dummy" checking account and link PayPal to that one. Whenever you had money in your PayPal account above a certain amount, pull it into your "dummy" account and then transfer the full balance _out_ of that account into one that isn't linked to PayPal.
Why someone would trust PayPal, who isn't a bank, with well over half a million dollars is beyond me.
For some interesting stories, paypalsucks.com
....how the hell the guy made €600,000 from Minecraft?
I worked for Western Union for over 6 years, they are subject to many, many banking regulations. Since PayPal is a money transfer service, it should fall under the same regulations.
It's too bad WU management is deathly afraid of the Internet (well, technology in general), otherwise they could have prevented PayPal from ever existing.
Why does electronic fund transfer have to be so complicated?
With my bank I can hop online and pay anyone in the world any amount of money. Well, they seem to limit it to how much I currently have in my account, and if the person I wish to pay does not have a real address (No "221B Baker Street + 2i" allowed), I'll have to hand deliver it instead of getting them to post it for free, but there's little limitation there.
Oh, and did I mention that the whole thing doesn't cost me a cent?
Heck, the only thing it's missing is a few features like:
- The ability to transfer money anonymously (all the recipient would get would be a confirmation crypto hash or something, maybe something that I could reveal later in a court, but that they couldn't* pin on me)
- The ability to make a storefront so all of the fund transfer went through "Qubit's Quantum Quickymart"
- Better account management, and a way to group or tag business and bills vs. friends vs. impulse game purchases (The way GMail handles email is a good first shot at a UI)
The bank isn't making money when I transfer funds, but they don't care -- they're already making money on the stuff I have sitting in their coffers.
So why are we stuck with PayPal, which is pretty much a
- Shady
- Costly
- Annoying
- Duplicate service
??
Hopefully some bank (or series of banks) will make this happen for us. Moving money around shouldn't be anywhere near this complicated!
* Says the power of NP.
coding is life
So being successful is now funny business?
That's utter bullshit. And they should know by now that it is not funny business, it's a popular game developed by one or two people. It can happen you know.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
paypal is evil... don't do business with them.
they may well be committing several laws
Congress commits several laws every year, but no one's stopped them yet...
Sixty thousand people have bought the game since May 2009, not in the last two weeks.
I bought the game a couple of months ago and every other game in my collection had been neglected.
The basic gist of it is that the entire world is generated from cubes on the fly. You explore, chop down trees, make tools, mine for minerals and stone, build houses/castles/towers/ridiculous pixel art sculptures and watch out for monsters which inhabit the world at night and dark corners of your mines and naturally-occuring caves. The world is generated on the fly as you explore, with mountains, rivers, forests, caves and the occasional treasure room. Multiplayer is in the early stages right now, but fun. Single player is an amazing time waster, it's so easy to get completely sucked into a world made up of giant pixels.
It's one of the best indie games I've ever tried and it's made by just one guy.
Eat the rich.
Actually, sixty thousand people have paid for it just since the account was frozen!
Minecraft is an entirely new category of game. There is no name for this new category. This is why indie development rocks; EA is happy to release new iterations of the FPS, but they would never gamble with a new class of game entirely.
The basic idea of Minecraft is this: you find yourself in a randomly-generated 3D world. It's daytime. At night, monsters will pop out of the darkness and attack you. Your only hope of survival is to harvest resources from the world (wood, stone, etc.) and build a shelter and weapons to defend yourself. The night/day cycle repeats: harvest, build, defend.
Think of it as something of a combo of Elder Scrolls and Second Life.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Here, let me type 9 characters into YouTube for you. ... Though, looking at your name, I suppose I have the answer.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Minecraft&page=&utm_source=opensearch
Bam! Watch. Be educated. Or shit, look at Wikipedia. It can explain it too. It's amazingly popular among other Internet forums (Something Awful, LueLinks, part of 4chan), as even though it's an alpha, it's been fully playable for months. So, you know. Multiplayer games that let you goof off and hang out with people make money. SHOCK.
I'm not sure if you're lazy, stupid, or a troll. But your post is calling the guy out on tricking people, when there's an easy to find product there.
That's because they don't exist. Even if the statistics back you up (and I'll bet every penny I've ever spent via Paypal they don't) we hear about the illegitimate business practices and not the few successes.
Last time I tried to use Paypal they took money off my credit card, then refused to route it through to the recipient. As they were acting as a merchant acquirer in the transaction, and I don't have a Paypal account, by holding onto those funds they were effectively stealing money from me.
So I threatened them with court action, asked my card company to reverse the transaction, and complained to the FSA and to Mastercard.
I got my money back eventually, and now refuse to do business with anybody that only accepts payment via Paypal. It's inconvenient at times, but not as inconvenient as giving money to a corrupt business and still not receiving the services/goods I've paid for.
Valve blogged about it, which is what drove a big chunk of those sales.
The game is basically first-person Dwarf Fortress. Your job is mine riches out of the ground while not dying.
Before you say "stop using PayPal and start using something else", what else are we supposed to use?
Google Checkout, for example, is only available in the USA and the UK.
Another thing about PayPal is that it's extremely simple to add to a website. All you need is a few lines of HTML and you have a shopping cart and payment system.
Were it not for her putting PayPal as the main eBay payment processor, this shit would have never happened as PayPal would be DEAD.
Those of you living in California, DO NOT VOTE MEG WHITMAN IF YOU HAVE HALF A BRAIN.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Mostly because of either no choice or few alternatives.
For payment-only, you often have no choice, because it's what eBay and/or a particular merchant accepts. On the other hand, for payment-only it's also relatively unproblematic, because you shouldn't have large amounts of money sitting in the account that PayPal could freeze.
For accepting money, you're much more exposed to PayPal's whims, and you also have a choice of what payment processor you use. However, you don't often have many good choices. Two of its competitors are Google Checkout and Amazon's payment service, but they're much less international. PayPal supports dozens of currencies and merchants in >100 countries, while Google Checkout is limited to only merchants in the U.S. and U.K., and Amazon's payments services only allow withdrawal of funds to U.S. bank accounts (and only do transactions in U.S. dollars). Since the Minecraft developer is Swedish, neither of those are options.
Another alternative is to set up a merchant account for processing credit-card payments yourself, but you need to be a certain size for that to be a sensible option. The Minecraft guy probably is big enough now that a merchant account makes sense, but he wasn't when he started out as a random 1-man shop selling a $10 game on the internet.
Basically there is a big gap in the market for lightweight payment-acceptance services available to non-American merchants. If you're in Sweden, you have PayPal, a merchant account, accepting bank transfers directly, and mailed payments.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I'm going to use this as an opportunity to plug BrainTree -- my new employer uses them as our payment gateway, and they're a dream to work with: They provide well-written APIs for all common platforms, and when I have a problem I get an email back from a member of their dev team typically in about 30 minutes.
Their front page says "We [heart] developers", and AFAICT they mean it. Github is one of their marquee customers.
Taking credit cards doesn't need to be awful.