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Stallman Crashes Talk, Fights 'War On Sharing'

schliz writes "Free software activist Richard Stallman has called for the end of the 'war on sharing' at the World Computer Congress in Brisbane, Australia. He criticized surveillance, censorship, restrictive data formats, and software-as-a-service in a keynote presentation, and asserted that digital society had to be 'free' in order to be a benefit, and not an attack. Earlier in the conference, Stallman had briefly interrupted a European Patent Office presentation with a placard that said: 'Don't get caught in software patent thickets.' He told journalists that the Patent Office was 'here to campaign in favor of software patents in Australia,' arguing that 'there's no problem that requires a solution with anything like software patents.'"

81 of 309 comments (clear)

  1. I don't care what anyone says by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd prefer Stallman's outspoken extremism vs the quiet extremism that corporations would place us under if no one spoke up.

    1. Re:I don't care what anyone says by koterica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I always prefer the extremists on my side to the extremists on the other side too.

    2. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think anyone has any issues with Stallman sharing his own work voluntarily - I think some people draw the line at stunts like this where he calls for universal adherence to his third and fourth 'freedoms' (to distribute the software; and to modify and distribute modified copies of the code).

      Your post assumes that only the black and white extremes exist - nothing could be further from the truth, luckily. There is a whole world in between the two.

    3. Re:I don't care what anyone says by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's a difference. Patent advocates are in the business of conspiring against the public to line their own pockets. The FSF represents public interests and has nothing to hide. Crashing the patent troll party makes a much more powerful statement, imo.

    4. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's a difference. Patent advocates are in the business of conspiring against the public to line their own pockets. The FSF represents public interests and has nothing to hide.

      Not saying I'm for or against software patents, but you do realize that "patent advocates" are citizens of the public, too, right? And that owners of corporations are citizens? They have exactly as much right as the FSF to argue what the interests of the public are.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    5. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Happy+Nuclear+Death · · Score: 3, Funny

      I always prefer the extremists on my side to the extremists on the other side too.

      To borrow a turn of phrase, the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

    6. Re:I don't care what anyone says by mapkinase · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The notion of "extremism" is based on the notion that majority always represent somewhat "middle", "balanced" or "common-sensical" or "best" or etc. position, while in fact majority always represents just the most marketed, the most advertised, the most imposed position. That is for situations when wide public is involved.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    7. Re:I don't care what anyone says by u17 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Patent advocates represent their corporations, because it is the corporations that own the patents, not the advocates themselves. Corporations are legal persons but are not citizens. There is no equivalence there.

    8. Re:I don't care what anyone says by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I think that all extremists should be killed to ensure that the debate remains moderate! Oh, wait ...

      It's also worth mentioning that if you immediately dismiss all extremists, you limit the debate to those ideas which the powers that be have deemed "mainstream" and acceptable. Extremists are the ones that change what is considered mainstream.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    9. Re:I don't care what anyone says by airfoobar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is a patent advocate advocating patents as a member of the public (i.e., thinking about the common good), or in a different capacity (e.g., patent lawyer, businessman, or someone else with vested interests who would benefit personally from patents)? In this instance, I believe patent advocates are only looking out for themselves, and are working against the interests of the public -- so it's fair and prudent to set them apart. As for the FSF (and EFF etc), I don't see them trying to profit from their activism at the expense of the greater good.

    10. Re:I don't care what anyone says by oiron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As long as those "citizens" have only as much right to put forth their views as Stallman, and not, say, a couple of dozen legislators in their pockets, I might just agree there.

      Considering, however, that they tend to spam the entire argument, and then use undue influence to enact measures that are only in their own selfish interests, and detrimental to the general common good, I give them much less benefit of the doubt.

    11. Re:I don't care what anyone says by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Funny

      A patent troll trying to interrupt an FSF convention would be going into the lion's den.

      I don't think anyone from the FSF would object.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    12. Re:I don't care what anyone says by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What some people would like to characterize here as "extremism" is merely a slightly older form of the status quo.

      If RMS could be declared an "extremist" at all in this situation is merely a reflection that most people are entirely ignorant and apathetic on this subject.

      This is one argument where RMS is not an extremist at all.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    13. Re:I don't care what anyone says by CODiNE · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So THAT'S why moderate muslims don't denounce the crazies. I get it now thanks.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    14. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Citizens own corporations. The corporation's interest is their interest.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    15. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Right, because a patent troll interrupting a FSF convention would be viewed as just as legitimate."

      I agree that it would not be taken as the same and acceptable, but that is because most people don't think that what is good for the rape survivor is good for the rapist. You are basically asserting there is something wrong with finding it OK for a rape survivor to speak out about rape while simultaneously not finding it OK for a rapist to show up and speak about the wonderful benefits of raping people. Yes, my example is extreme, but it seems some people can't see a difference unless it is painted with a very large paintbrush dipped in fluorescent paint.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    16. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know... I have many arguments to oppose to extremists (on my side or against my side) but I don't like to call RMS an extremist because his views and positions are coherent, rational and come with arguments. He is uncompromising, that's sure, but does that make one an extremist ?

      Uncompromising, sure. Idealist, hell yes, but extremist ? How so ? Does he advocate violence ? Does he say we must break laws ? Come one... I like RMS in that he doesn't care about what is reasonable, what is consensual, he cares about his point and defends it.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    17. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2, Informative

      "They have exactly as much right as the FSF to argue what the interests of the public are."

      I don't think anybody would argue that point, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that they are not arguing for public interest. That is merely the lie that they are telling, while they argue what is in the best interest of a select few rich people.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    18. Re:I don't care what anyone says by idontgno · · Score: 2, Informative

      Devil's advocate time!

      The corporate good is the public good.

      "...I thought that what was good for our country was good for General Motors, and vice versa."

      --Charles Wilson, then President of General Motors[emphasis mine]

      This snippet is often misquoted "What's good for General Motors is good for the country." But the literal misquoting is probably accurately characterized as a paraphrase, because the idea is embedded there, and I think a lot of people take it seriously.

      That's the political philosophy Freedom advocates are up against. "Software patents are good for software companies, and therefore good for the nation." While economic processes aren't generally zero-sum, stuff surrounding intellectual property issues are significantly closer to "win-lose" than other components of capitalism, especially in the fast-moving arenas of computer technology.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    19. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 2, Insightful

      stallman just has balls. he has the balls to do this

      I don't agree -- for doing something to require balls, you have to be risking something to do it. Oh, no! Now that Stallman's taking this gutsy stance, someone might think he's some kind of crazed free software loving hippie! Well, most people probably would think that, if they knew who he was.

      That's not to say that I disagree with his viewpoint, but the man risks nothing in doing this.

    20. Re:I don't care what anyone says by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stallman is not advocating that you be forced to adhere to the beliefs of the FSF. The GPL is a voluntary license based on copyright. Software patent advocates would like their beliefs to become legal everywhere, forcing everyone to comply with them.

      An extreme view on copyright or patents would be a demand for their immediate dissolution. Software patents are a relatively recent legal phenomenon recognized in only some countries. Arguing against them is far from extreme.

    21. Re:I don't care what anyone says by DrgnDancer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      His uncompromising attitude on issues which cannot be resolved without compromise make him an extremist. There is no possible way we'll ever live in a world of pure free software in Stallman's lifetime. He can never win. Any reasonable outside observer can see this. The work he wants to do is the work of decades or even centuries spent readjusting attitudes and gaining mindshare. He could move things in that direction if he were willing to take small bites, make compromises here and there to advance the overall agenda, etc. He's not.

      He's taken an extreme (for our society) viewpoint and refuses to give any ground. He refuses to say "Hey, that's a nice move in the right direction, we should do more of that." It's always "Well, that might be a small step in the right direction, but fix the rest of it. Now! Immediately. Make it the way I want it!"

      I'm not saying, per se, that he's wrong. It's possible that he's made more progress this way than he would of with compromise. I don't know. That's not really the point. He's taken an "extreme" position and refuses to budge in any way. That sounds like the definition of "extremist" to me. We associate violence with extremism (because most people who get violent about a matter are extremists), but not all extremists are violent.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    22. Re:I don't care what anyone says by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even under favorable conditions for a corporation, shareholders may not see much benefit. The sort of leadership that schemes for unfair advantage by encouraging uncritical reporting by the mainstream media, regulatory capture, rent seeking, tax breaks, and the like isn't going to be fair to shareholders either. With collusion from the board that they packed with "friends", they'll cheerfully pay themselves huge bonuses that come straight off the value of the stock, and brag about how deserving they are. That sort of thing devalues stock similar to the way that printing more money devalues money. The public barely notices as long as they don't get too greedy. Let just enough of any gains trickle down to the stock price to keep the company solvent and close to market norms. Helps appear more normal when everyone is doing it. I have not heard of any American company where the upper management's pay isn't outrageous. I suppose if there are any, they're the ones you don't hear about. Our corporate governance is seriously broken.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    23. Re:I don't care what anyone says by hey! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      while in fact majority always represents just the most marketed, the most advertised, the most imposed position.

      [emphasis mine]

      OK, as a first approximation, you are right, but to say "always" is to overstate the case. There is no question that people who invest in propaganda don't do so out of naiveté... they expect a return on their investment. They expect to wield public sentiment like a tool, but it is a treacherous tool.

      I think propaganda works best when it is directs people's attention away from their day to day lives, as opposed to changing their assessment of those lives. You can say, "your life is hell because of the Jews" or "you are insecure because of the homosexual agenda." You can't say, "your life is actually pretty good so far as the world standard of living is concerned," even if that is true. You can't say "it's actually quite easy to get a job; people who don't have jobs are just lazy," unless you are talking to somebody with a secure job.

      If you could simply manufacture the opinions you wanted, then the public would have continued to favor the Iraq war in the run up to the 2008 elections, but the war had gone on so long that people were touched by it in some way, by a family member, friend or colleague who was deployed and maybe didn't come back. Likewise the Democrats are going to pay in 2010 because they can't credibly claim to have improved peoples' lives in the twenty months they've had power. That's common in mid-term elections.

      In such cases, propaganda has a way of turning on its masters.

      Perhaps we should evaluate people's political sanity not on their absolute position on some political axis, but on their open or narrow mindedness. A political position becomes pernicious fantasy, no matter where it is on your favorite philosophical axis, when it willfully ignores the probable outcomes of the actions it advocates.

      For example, other people with me on the left favored single payer health insurance or even a socialized medical system during the recent debates on health insurance reform. While I am philosophically well disposed to these things, I did not favor them at that time. I thought if they were enacted that existing businesses would immediately collapse, and that working public replacements could not be conjured into existence quickly enough to take their place. Now I realize many who prefer socialized medicine or single payer (not the same things at all by the way) might disagree with that assessment. They may even be right. But that's not the point I'm trying to make. I moderated my position based on a critical examination of the likely outcomes of my *ideal* solution. That examination might be faulty, but I did not twist my evaluation of the facts in order to justify my a priori position.

      It's tricky to evaluate the political sanity of a figure like Stallman. He is very, very bright,and bright people have a way of finding credible sounding rationalizations for really ill considered opinions. That said, I think that Stallman's positions on the viability of free software sound a lot more credible today than they did twenty years ago. True, free software projects haven't produced viable competition in a number of important niches; but after two decades of experience with free software success, it isn't so hard to believe that a free software ecosystem could meet all the software needs of an individual or enterprise.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    24. Re:I don't care what anyone says by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Be careful with your language and logic.

      Consumption of information? That common expression bothers me more and more. How can information be "consumed"? Energy and food is consumed. I suppose what is really meant is that, barring forgetfulness, information is only new once. The newness is "consumed", not the information itself. But that expression is too easily misconstrued. It lays a foundation for reasoning as if information is scarce, which is not true. Stop using it!

      Matter of perspective? Both pushing for their own interests? Neither one is right or wrong? Both are the same? No! You're trotting out false equivalences. In this, there is a good side which is for the public interest, and a bad side which for their own selfish interests however much they might claim otherwise. Can hardly have a bigger, starker difference than that. Would you argue that there was no fundamental difference between the Union and the Confederates in the US Civil War? Or between the fascists and democracies in WWII? Or the nominal communists and capitalists of the Cold War? Slavery, in addition to being brutal and cruel, was economically inferior. The system simply could not compete on production. Same with the so-called communist systems that were actually dictatorships.

      Today, proprietary cannot compete with open. Open has far too many advantages. If not for the religious devotion so many display towards proprietary systems, the intense desire for there to be entities who will act in a manner proper and reassuring to those who have stakes of their own, libre software would have won by now. But they want there to be stakeholders in software, just like they are stakeholders in their own businesses. Therefore they think software must be owned in every way possible, the more the better. They trust that arrangement to be the best guarantee possible that this scary new software stuff will work, and be secure, available, maintained, and supported 24/7. The fear factor makes them much too willing to sacrifice freedoms for security, and many businesses take advantage of this. How many people do you know who derive a vague feeling of comfort from the mere mention of Microsoft? Entirely too many. They conveniently forget all the commercial failures, things like Borland, Commodore, OS/2, Netscape, and WordPerfect. And they're far too forgiving of all the lock in attempts that have been tried over the years, from MS Word's doc file format, the disaster known as OOXML, and Apple's iPod and everything else Apple to cell phone jailing, Sony's audio CDs with root kits, TurboTax's boot sector modification, and DRM schemes such as Region Encoding, CSS, and HDCP. At least some commercialism is seen as going too far, and BonziBuddy, Gator and similar ilk are pretty well universally hated.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    25. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      So THAT'S why moderate muslims don't denounce the crazies. I get it now thanks.

      Are you serious?

      Thousands of muslims leaders and millions of regular muslims have denounced the terrorists.

      Hell, even the leader of the axis of evil, Ayatollah Khamenei, publicly condemned the 9-11 attacks.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    26. Re:I don't care what anyone says by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Many of them do. Many of those that do are still demonized by Fox News - for instance, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said in describing his community center in Lower Manhattan that “We want to push back against the extremists", has worked with local Jewish leaders, and has been consistently advocating for peace between Islamic nations and the West throughout his career. It didn't help his cause.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    27. Re:I don't care what anyone says by markhb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Money doesn't just magically appear on the market : if you gain money through your stocks , it's because someone else is losing money.

      That's actively ludicrous. If I gain money on my stocks, it's because I sold them to a willing buyer for more than I paid for them. If I don't sell them, then the daily price fluctuations are simply figures on paper. Nobody is losing money, although the person to whom I sell is certainly spending money. If your argument is that my gain is potential money lost by the person from whom I originally purchased the stocks, then I submit that my gain is my just reward for assuming a risk that the original owner didn't wish to take on.

      --
      Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
    28. Re:I don't care what anyone says by ranton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Today, proprietary cannot compete with open. Open has far too many advantages. If not for the religious devotion so many display towards proprietary systems, the intense desire for there to be entities who will act in a manner proper and reassuring to those who have stakes of their own, libre software would have won by now.

      You do understand that your comments are opinions, right? The proprietary model does have advantages as well, such as providing additional incentive to create software. Even Stallman admits that proprietary software has benefits, but that choosing Free Software is a moral imperitive. Any increased efficiency is just a byproduct of following that moral path.

      It is clearly debatable whether free or proprietary software provides the most benefit for society. Its okay that you have taken a side, but don't pretend that the debate is finished.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    29. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's good to hear about 9/11. Now, how many Muslims denounce death penalty for apostasy?

      Pretty much all of them. - I mean have you ever asked a muslim what he thought about it?
      Really, the only ones who do care are the fundos and the politicians who pander to them.
      The koran has just two passages that deal with the issue and in each case the death penalty is only applicable to apostates who then commit treason.
      Just in case you've forgotten, we still have the death penalty for treason in the US.
      Hell, the only reason we still have the death penalty for anything in the US is because the politicians who pander to american fundos.
      No other western country has the death penalty. Even Russia abolished it.

      But if you have to have big names say it - lets start with Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi - Grand Mufti of the leading islamic university, Al-Azhar. If islam were anywhere near as monolithic as the catholic church then the grand mufti of Al-Azhar would be the closest thing islam has to a pope. And it wasn't something new that he brought with him when the took office in 1996 - the previous Grand Mufti al-Shaltut held to similar doctrine.

      But I'm sure you've never even heard of them. So how about Daisy Khan and her husband Imam Feisal Rauf - the people building the Park51 mosque.

      Or if you aren't satisfied with people who are famous among muslims or people who are famous among non-muslims, how about over a hundred regular muslims from all over the planet?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  2. A bit of irony by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Funny

    Amazingly enough, the article describing Stallman's well-reasoned arguments for the need for free software, free sharing of information, and non-proprietary formats is helpfully on a page written in ASP.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  3. Go Stallman by hellraizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nice work ... there should me more people like him :)

    1. Re:Go Stallman by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Informative
  4. Predicted politician response in the coming days: by Even+on+Slashdot+FOE · · Score: 5, Funny

    Look at these people, like Richard Stallman, who want our economy to die! We must have software patents! And an ACTA equivalent, and a DMCA equivalent, and secret police, and blah blah blah.

  5. Well by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Censorship, DRM, and surveillance are all very dangerous and annoying things that only hurt the average person. It's hardly going to affect the pirates and will likely only affect 'normal' people, robbing them of some of their rights in the process. These corporations must be stopped, that much is clear.

    --
    Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  6. Re:He's LOSING it man !! by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bonkers are the people who see what's going on around them, and say and do nothing.

  7. that must have been just like by FudRucker · · Score: 3, Funny

    when jesus overturned the money-changer's tables. Jesus? is that you?

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  8. Re:Predicted politician response in the coming day by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ugh. People like you make me sick! The DMCA protects authors and their intellectual property that is in an infinite supply, and the ACTA, if it passes (hopefully it will), will accomplish this goal further and eliminate those evil pirates who dare steal profit that only exists in the future of an alternate dimension where the artist made more money!

    --
    Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  9. Worse Than Software Patents by TheEyes · · Score: 4, Informative

    Even worse than software patents, there is a new UN resolution going around that would give world governments more control over the internet. This is even worse, IMO, than software patents, which "only" threaten to drive software innovation to a virtual standstill: allowing governments to control the flow of information on the Internet could well destroy it, and the newfound freedom of expression and access to information we are currently taking for granted.

    There are so many new threats to freedom on so many new fronts it's hard to even define what they all are, let alone what can be done about them.

    1. Re:Worse Than Software Patents by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2, Funny

      What are you hiding? If you're not a dirty criminal, what have you got to lose? The government is nice enough to provide all kinds of other things for you, and can be trusted. Stop acting like a conspiracy theorist.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    2. Re:Worse Than Software Patents by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the Internet's fate is sealed, in it's current form. It was always under the control of a single government, so it's only a matter of time. We need to go to darknets or replace the infrastructure with something community-run - probably a bit of both.

      I wrote about this before:

      http://search.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1634334&cid=32019410

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:Worse Than Software Patents by magus_melchior · · Score: 2, Informative

      If that's this morning's Morning Edition report on "cyber" security (may that buzzword burn in hell), we need to change the framing of the information security debate in eastern Europe and the Middle East, because those countries view information and ideology, not technology, as the weapons. They want to stop countries from expressing philosophical opinions, which is useless for anything except for suppressing dissidents!

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
  10. GNU/Stallman by dandart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Shouting, running, making a fool out of himself. I think if only he would do the sort of things he does without calling a ruckus, then people might take him more seriously.

    I admire the sort of things he's doing, but the way he does them is troublesome. He shouldn't for example be blocking access to an Apple store despite their terribly non-free products. Nobody likes an asshole and would tend to ignore it. Now, if he were to stand outside, offering leaflets on why Apple is wrong, but disguising it as something like "Bad Computer Practises", or "Why Software Freedom is Important" instead of "Apple is crap! Don't buy from them!" which no one will pay attention to, I think he'd get a lot further.

    Good luck, rms.

    1. Re:GNU/Stallman by martas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The bitch of it is that you probably did the right thing. But you did it in the wrong way. In the inconvenient way. Now you have to pay the penalty for that. I know it stinks, but that's the way it is."
      President Susanna Luchenko to Sheridan, Rising Star, Babylon 5

    2. Re:GNU/Stallman by melikamp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Shouting, running, making a fool out of himself. I think if only he would do the sort of things he does without calling a ruckus, then people might take him more seriously.

      May be he doesn't care about being taken seriously. May be he just wants people to be serious about defending their own right to free expression. And I am sorry for people who are turned away from his lucid arguments because they think that non-violent protests against economic oppression and political censorship are "extremism": can people be any more docile?

    3. Re:GNU/Stallman by jDeepbeep · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other words, if he would just keep his mouth shut, not make anyone uncomfortable, and not live out his philosophy, he would be acceptable to you. Get back to us when you've done even _an eighth_ of what RMS has done for software freedoms that all of us benefit directly from.

      --
      Reply to That ||
    4. Re:GNU/Stallman by jDeepbeep · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think Ballmer only has the patent on using a chair as a projectile whilst making a point. Making a fool of oneself has too much prior art behind it.

      --
      Reply to That ||
    5. Re:GNU/Stallman by Noughmad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you try and tell people about "Why Software Freedom is Important", they will listen to you, agree with you, then buy Apple anyway. If you tell them "Apple is crap!", at least some of them will understand it.

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    6. Re:GNU/Stallman by Duradin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One could understand an argument of "Why Software Freedom is Important", "Apple is crap!" is too shallow for anything but simple agreement or disagreement.

      "they will listen to you, agree with you, then buy Apple anyway" that's called the "nod politely and slowly back away" maneuver.

    7. Re:GNU/Stallman by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Insightful

      May be he doesn't care about being taken seriously. May be he just wants people to be serious about defending their own right to free expression

      The problem is, by projecting the image of himself that he does - a bearded fanatic with glowing eyes frothing at the mouth - he does a great disservice to the cause he tries to represent, because it gets associated with him, and all personal negative connotations necessarily carry over.

      PR is good and necessary for any cause, but it should be done by people good at it.

  11. stallman rocks by Jeek+Elemental · · Score: 4, Interesting

    He secured his place in history a long time ago and is STILL at it, and most impressive, still relevant.

  12. Re:Note to Richard by sourcerror · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Try Jedit. It was built with the same philosophy.
    The thing I like the most about it, is that I didn't had to learn a new language to script it (like elisp), it can be scripted with beanshell, which is pretty much like java, you just don't have to declare the type of everything (but it accepts vanilla Java too).
    It can record macros in Beanshell while clicking around, you can assign them to custom buttons, to custom hotkeys, it has a nice plugin api as well (but you can do everything in beanshell macro too, but plugins make them faster and easier to manage).
    It has syntax support for a lot languges. (For some it has function list and additional goodies too. But syntax files are dead-easy to write.)
    It has a nice XML plugin too, which will offer auto-complete according to DTD.

    I think it has everything that emacs has*, but uses the usual user interface coventions (ctrl-insert, ctrl-shift etc. )

    * I guess emacs has some esoteric plugins that Jedit not; I'm speaking here about the core application

  13. the printing press by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    bought about the creation of the middle class, modern democracy, and the death of the feudal system and the aristocracy

    it took awhile. the feudal system and the aristocracy in their time were just no brainer common sense, and the idea of challenging them was either something to be laughed at or you must be crazy to believe they could ever end or to doubt their validity

    the internet means the death of the entire concept of intellectual property

    it will take awhile. in our time some people just take the idea of intellectual property as just no brainer common sense, and the idea of challenging it is either something to be laughed at or you must be crazy to believe it could ever end or to doubt its validity

    in today's age, stallman is but a distant voice in the wilderness, but he's actually 100% correct, just way ahead of his time, too far ahead, to gain any traction

    the simple truth is that intellectual property is a completely flawed concept. it made sense before the internet when media had to be physically printed and physically distributed. much as the feudal system made sense when only a few could afford book knowledge

    all that intellectual property has going for it now is legal and cultural inertia. it is of course completely philosophically untenable when media can be shared at zero cost at great distances with millions instantaneously. it will take time, but intellectual property is going down the tubes. the intartubes

    let us work hard to hasten its demise

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:the printing press by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The thought of spending a lot of money and time inventing something only to have someone else just come by and copy it and profit from it"

      What harm have the pirates done? Have they taken profit that only exists in the future of an alternate dimension where the artist made more money?

      "No, we need IP laws and the lack of them will bring innovation to a standstill."

      We don't need illogical laws, we need an end to our capitalistic society (that will be far in the future, if it happens at all).

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    2. Re:the printing press by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you seriously arguing that African countries are the way they are because they have no IP laws?? As for China, I think they are innovating just fine, and in a few years they might give us a run for our money.

    3. Re:the printing press by Steauengeglase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To paraphrase Stallman, there is no such thing as Intellectual Property. There are patents, copyrights and trademarks. Anything else is someone trying to get over on you.

    4. Re:the printing press by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Informative

      bought about the creation of the middle class, modern democracy, and the death of the feudal system and the aristocracy

      Completely incorrect and bass-ackwards. Wikipedia on the printing press: "The rapid economic and socio-cultural development of late medieval society in Europe created favorable intellectual and technological conditions for Gutenberg's invention", not the other way around as you state. Gutenberg invented the press in 1439, nearly three hundred years before the industrial revolution.

      Too bad your misunderstanding of history detracts so badly from the better points in your comment.

    5. Re:the printing press by gerddie · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, we need IP laws and the lack of them will bring innovation to a standstill.

      You have it all wrong: for example James Watt brought the development of the steam machine to a standstill using his patents, and only after these patents expired, innovation could continue:

      Once Watt's patents were secured and production started, a substantial portion of his energy was devoted to fending off rival inventors. In 1782, Watt secured an additional patent, made "necessary in consequence of ... having been so unfairly anticipated, by [Matthew] Wasborough in the crank motion"... . More dramatically, in the 1790s, when the superior Hornblower engine was put into production, Boulton and Watt went after him with the full force of the legal system.

      ...

      After the expiration of Watt's patents, not only was there an explosion in the production and efficiency of engines, but steam power came into its own as the driving force of the Industrial Revolution. Over a thirty year period steam engines were modified and improved as crucial innovations such as the steam train, the steamboat and the steam jenny came into wide usage. The key innovation was the high-pressure steam engine — development of which had been blocked by Watt's strategic use of his patent. Many new improvements to the steam engine, such as those of William Bull, Richard Trevithick, and Arthur Woolf, became available by 1804: although developed earlier these innovations were kept idle until the Boulton and Watt patent expired. None of these innovators wished to incur the same fate as Jonathan Hornblower.

  14. Good for him. by mrthoughtful · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I recall when I went through a rather lengthy discussion with the UK government about software patents, and the state of the law. It became very clear that regarding patent law, the UK government and the UK patent office is very heavily influenced by advisors who are, almost to a man, commercial patent lawyers. The remaining industry spokesmen are from big business.

    It doesn't take a huge amount of understanding or research to see that SME innovation has more or less been destroyed by the existing patent processes. Entry into big success is done through innovation still - but not so much via the patent route. I would contend that companies like Facebook was successful, NOT because of whatever patents they may have held, (or bought), but because they were able to identify a market demand and react to it faster or more successfully than existing big industry was able.

    --
    This comment was written with the intention to opt out of advertising.
  15. Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by Damon+Tog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Copying other people's stuff and giving it away isn't "sharing."

    If you want to share, create your own work and give it away for free.

    In the past (and present) this is precisely what Richard Stallman did with GNU. He wanted software to be free. Instead of bootlegging copies of Windows (or MS-DOS) he created his OWN stuff and gave it away for free. Now Linux is a force to be reckoned with. If he had simply pirated other peoples' work, this innovation would have never happened.

    1. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by Mad+Leper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Copying someone else's work and distributing it without permission or license for free, thus depriving the creator of income counts as theft in my book.

      This is not what the FOSS movement is about and it's a shame that so many pirates hide behind the skirts of the Open Source movement to justify their actions. Even worse that so many FOSS supporters turn a blind eye to the practice rather than deal with it directly.

    2. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is getting tangential, but... As I've argued before, when a debate starts focusing on terminology, both parties need to step back ask why people are worried so much about the terminology. Typically it is because words have added emotional baggage or implications, that either side wants to subtly slip into the debate without actively addressing the point.

      In this case, one side really wants to use the word "stealing" to be used, because of the emotional baggage of associated with it (it's wrong, it's bad, no one honest would do it, ...). The other side wants to use the word "sharing" similarly (it's good, everyone is taught to share, no one is harmed, ...).

      But in an intellectually honest debate, both sides would willingly back off from contentious terminology, and use neutral terms and focus on the particulars. Regardless of whether distributing digital copies is "sharing" or "stealing" (or both, or neither), we should debate whether said distribution is a net gain for society. We should debate whether said distribution violates a party's basic rights. And then from those points, we should debate what law would be both fair and socially-helpful.

      I fully acknowledge that words have meaning, and we should try to be precise with language. But this is exactly why an honest debate should not invoke terms with an intent to capitalize on ambiguity. My main point is not to let debate get derailed by terminology concerns. Focus on the nature and consequences of the activity being debated, rather than ambiguous labels or partial analogies.

      In the case of copyright, it becomes very difficult to argue for the social necessity, and intrinsic justness, of very long-term and rigidly-enforced copyright when you can no longer draw a false analogy to stealing of physical property. Conversely, it becomes difficult to argue that copyright infringement is completely without harm once you remove the sharing rhetoric and focus on the incentive/social-contract aspect of copyright law. In other words, I believe a socially-constructive compromise is more likely to arise from that kind of honest debate (yes, I know how unrealistic it is to expect that kind of debate to actually happen).

    3. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by djmurdoch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I assume you're describing copying without permission, i.e. copyright infringement. Copying and giving away with permission is definitely sharing.

      But I'm curious about who you think is suggesting that people should infringe copyright?

      Or are you talking about Stallman's anti-software-patent position? Newly imposing software patents is the "theft"; it takes stuff that should be in the public domain, and gives the patent holder a monopoly on it.

    4. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by prattle · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sharing implies that you split something rather than duplicate it!

      Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter.

      --
      "We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" -- Kurt Vonnegut
    5. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by StuffMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, sharing of information implies that it is duplicated, not split.

    6. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by SheeEttin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Copying other people's stuff and giving it away isn't "sharing." If you want to share, create your own work and give it away for free.

      Let's say you have a car. You lend it to your friend.
      Is that sharing? Yes.
      Now let's say you have the ability to magically duplicate your car, and you give your friend a duplicate so when he needs it, you're not without a car.
      Is that sharing? Yes, but in a different way.

      So, you are still sharing something you have. Remember those "you wouldn't steal a car" ads? They were right, I wouldn't. But if I could get an exact copy such that the owner was not deprived of his car, I sure as hell would! Who wouldn't want a nice car for free?!

      And before someone says that you'd kill the auto industry by not giving them their money for cars... open-source hasn't killed closed (yet). And then there's these guys.

  16. And the problem? by Steauengeglase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given the number of corporate shills who show up at F/OSS conventions peddling things like, "'you people' need to get over software patents" or "sometimes you just can't just hand the source over to the client, its just good for business" or "I'm not calling you people communist -or even traitors, but you have to wonder about someone who doesn't genuinely care about the shareholder's position", I have no problem with Stallman shitting in their yard. Good for him.

  17. Crashes? by swm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The headline says "crashes".
    The article says "interrupted", but gives no details.
    The article has two pictures (#18 and #19).
    #19 looks like Stallman posing after the event for the benefit of the camera.
    #18 is probably the interruption.
    All you can see from the picture is that Stallman (and friend) stood at the front of a conference room holding poster-board signs.
    It looks like Stallman has a sheaf of papers in his hand, so maybe he said something.

    1. Re:Crashes? by BBTaeKwonDo · · Score: 3, Informative

      TFA linked to the wrong article. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232825,stallman-crashes-european-patent-session.aspx is the session Stallman "crashed", regarding software patents.

      Stallman didn't crash the World Computer Congress presentation described in TFA's link http://www.itnews.com.au/News/233002,stallman-calls-for-end-to-war-on-sharing.aspx - he was giving the keynote! That's like saying Steve Jobs crashed the Apple Developers Conference presentation.

  18. Devil's Advocate by archer,+the · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Company X spends $1B developing a new idea, be it a physical widget or an algorithm. Said company sells widgets or software licenses at $A to recoup the invested money (first) and then to make a profit. Company Y sees the widget or software and can cheaply reverse engineer it, skipping 70% of the development costs. Company Y can sell their product at 0.4*$A and still make profit. Company X only gets $0.2B revenue for the item, and is out $0.8B.

    How would we prevent this situation without IP? If the above happens, no one will want to invest in research, because they'd lose money, even if they "invented" the next IPod.

    Maybe if all research funding came from the public, then all development successes (and failures) would be public knowledge.

    1. Re:Devil's Advocate by mrogers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the above happens, no one will want to invest in research, because they'd lose money, even if they "invented" the next IPod.

      But Apple didn't invent the portable MP3 player. "Research, invent, commoditise, sell" is a plausible-sounding business plan, and I'm sure it sometimes works out that way, but much more commonly, companies learn from each other's mistakes and release competing products with small improvements. Apple realised people wanted an MP3 player that was slick rather than geeky-looking, so they repackaged it. That was their innovation. And it's a good thing - I'm not knocking that kind of incremental innovation. Patents harm that way of innovating, though, because the only companies that can play the game are those with big enough patent portfolios to deter their competitors from suing.

      The portfolio problem applies to blue-sky innovation too. Imagine you invented the portable MP3 player from scratch in your garage and patented it. A year later, Apple releases the iPod. What are you going to do? If you sue, they can just pull some ridiculously broad patent out of their portfolio and counter-sue until you lose everything. The best you can do is to sell your patent to one of their competitors for use in their portfolio, and good luck getting a decent price when the buyer has all the lawyers.

      There is one area where patents work more or less as expected, though, and that's drug development. Drug companies have a pretty good track record of throwing money at a problem until they get a usable drug (often usable for a different problem, admittedly), patenting the drug, and recouping their investment within the lifetime of the patent. Everything would be wonderful except for two catches: the money available to pay for a drug doesn't always match its social importance (the malaria problem), and the price of the drug while it's under patent may be too high for many of the people who need it (the HIV problem).

      We've tried to patch the malaria problem through charitable funding of drug development, and the HIV problem through charitable subsidisation of drug prices, but both patches exacerbate the underlying problem by putting yet more patents and yet more money into the hands of the incumbent drug developers, meaning that next time we run into similar problems they'll be even more expensive to solve. The only solution I can think of is to create a public interest exception for patent licenses, coupled with public funding of socially important research, because the private money will move to areas that aren't covered by the public interest exception. But that sounds too much like dirty commie talk for a lot of people's liking. ;-)

  19. i need a clarification, apologies by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Interesting
    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  20. Free software is good for the economy by bouldin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would tell the corporate world that free software is good for the economy, and good for their business.

    There are plenty of vendors out there who have built products on top of Linux, Apache, etc.

    If Linux, Apache, etc. were not available for free, these vendors either would not have been able to launch their products, or would have paid huge licensing fees for crap like the Microsoft web server, driving up their prices.

    If it weren't for these kinds of public software projects, everything would be more expensive, from consumer electronics to enterprise appliances.

  21. After reading the first three words of the title.. by zrbyte · · Score: 2, Funny

    Was I the only one who hoped that his katana would be involved?

  22. bullshit by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    because what you are saying is completely unenforceable

    the future is the death of content producers. and by that i mean old school distributors. artists will produce directly, with financial outlays coming from passion. if it ignites in popularity, ancillary revenues: personalized content, concert gigs, cinema houses: these will provide a return on investment. and this does not mean we are forced to watch amateur youtube videos in the future. one of the most most expensive, and most profitable movie, ever made, avatar, made it all in cinema houses. this is a non-internet, controlled environment where you have to buy a ticket. this is never going away because no one enjoys watching movies by yourself in your basement. nothing is threatened except the dvd market. and why do we need constraints on our freedoms for the sake of propping up a dying media format and a dying business model?

    there is no guarantee that an investment in the production of movies, music, or books will result in a financial return. nor should there ever be. most artists were starving, are starving, and will forever more starve. they make art out of passion, and that's all you ever need, and that's all that ever matters, and that's much more powerful than intellectual property law

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  23. Indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For example, in my mind, a government that locks non-violent human beings in cages for engaging in recreational drug use is incredibly extremist. The reason the majority doesn't see it that way is because they've spent their entire lives knowing nothing but the status quo, and therefore can't imagine it being any different.

  24. hey, genius by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if you can't afford a book, you can't afford to learn. and you can't afford a book if the only ones around are scribbled by monks. and so, a dummy, who can't read and knows nothing, you go work the fields, like your serf parents before you

    fact: the printing press created the middle class as we know it today. the existence of a large middle class supports the notion of a democracy being an effect political possibility

    the cities have always had craftsmen and tradesmen, since before roman and even egyptian times. but they were always tiny sectors, not the vast middle class we know today. that one of those tradesmen, gutenberg, invented the printing press, thereby resulting in the explosion of the middle class: this is solid historical fact

    but thank you for cherry picking small fragments of reality to support a conception of history which is patently false. pfffft

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  25. Re:clarification by galoise · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You have a crucial point that you fail to see: those two forms of IP are already distinguished in legal institutions: copyright and patents. the problem, is that both legal institutions are being extended out of control... but the difference is there, and we only need to adjust one (patents) and abolish the other.

    But independently of that particular solution, the fact that technological development makes some particular form of social institution or enterprise obsolete is not the problem. If the invention of the wheel made some forms of transportation obsolete, considerations about the preservation or future or pre-wheel forms of transportation should not be valid arguments in discussions about development and deployment of the wheel.

    In other words....it doesn't matter. The problem right now is not how are we going to secure that there are incentives for people to invent stuff, but that the mechanisms that we do have in place, that were never created with that intention but also work as incentive structures, are becoming unacceptable threats to the public interest and freedom.

    First we need to stop the escalation into police states that the extension of these mechanisms is bringing about, THEN we should let the people that are trying to make money inventing stuff work out how they are going to actually make any.

    In other words: the "technological development" argument is moot. it is not going to happen, period. So don't use it to respond to my complaints about my lost freedoms, because i'm being monitored, censored, persecuted, fined and incarcerated NOW, and you want me to worry about the potential profit problem of some corporation in some undefined future. get your priorities right.

    As a subsidiary argument, you can reconsider the reasons that were argued in its time for the implementation of IP protection. it was never "let's secure a revenue stream for the author", it was much more a thing of "let's secure the integrity of the produced media for the future, by preventing unauthorized sub-par copies to be made and distributed". That line of thought rests, however, on the direct correlation between cheap copy and low quality copy that digital media makes obsolete.

    --
    entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
  26. Re:Humans who own stock benefit when... by sakshale · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is a problem currently with laws that were written with humans in mind, being interpreted to cover corporations.

    For example; California's property tax reform a few decades back, was written to protect older citizen's from being taxed out of their family homes. It limits the amount your property tax can go up, unless you sell your property or perform a major upgrade. Now, however, there is a problem. Corporations also own property, but quite often they never sell it or transfer it... and they don't die of old age. There is simply no mechanism in place to allow Corporations to have the value of their property reassessed on a periodic basis to adjust their property tax to reflect current value.

    Whether this is good or bad is not the point. The point I am making is that corporations are not human beings and thus laws written for human beings might not work as intended when applied to corporations.

    --
    For every problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious and wrong.
  27. Re:Humans who own stock benefit when... by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Saying "humans are part of corporations" makes about as much as sense as saving "humans are part of slave plantations" or "huans are part of prisons". While all three statements are technically true, neither the corporations nor the plantation nor the prison is representing the workers within. On the contrary these THINGS typically work to suppress the humans inside their boundaries.

    The workers should be allowed to exercise their rights (voting, free speech, etc) while the corporate plantation has none whatsoever. Things don't have human rights, because things are not human.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  28. It's great that you're such an expert, but... by Tetsujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    meanwhile i can give you copy of the movie avatar. the simple pattern of bits that make up the movie rquires no real world involvement, the bits can be enjoyed in and of themselves on a computer monitor. this is a different kind of "intellectual property" because the idea itself is also the product

    Suppose it weren't an actual copy of the film "Avatar" - let's say it was just the script.

    Now, as people seem to be very fond of pointing out - there's not a lot to it. Basic premise, rehashed story, Mulan/Ferngully/yada yada. What makes the movie is its presentation... The quality of the graphics and how well they're animated, the voice, sound, and music work, and so on. All of these things together represent a tremendous amount of "real world" work, and it's that real world work that's made this "simple" pattern of bits valuable. That sequence of bits could have been pounded out on the keyboard by monkeys, by random chance - but the point is, it wasn't.

    There are other ways the same story could be presented - a talented storyteller could make it into a good campfire story, people could perform it onstage, it could be a musical - whatever - but the point is that in any case, that basic idea isn't good for much without all that work that goes into the presentation.

    In other words, it isn't the idea that's the product, it's the product that's the product. The only difference is how convenient it is to replicate the product.

    Put it the other way: ripping off someone else's motor design requires a bit of effort, expertise, and money. Not as much as making a new motor design, but enough to fit your argument that this is a fundamentally "real world" thing. So why should that idea then get extra protection that other ideas don't? What's the justification?

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.