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US Says Plane Finder App Threatens Security
ProgramErgoSum writes "The Plane Finder AR application, developed by a British firm for the Apple iPhone and Google's Android, allows users to point their phone at the sky and see the position, height and speed of nearby aircraft. It also shows the airline, flight number, departure point, destination and even the likely course-the features which could be used to target an aircraft with a surface-to-air missile, or to direct another plane on to a collision course, the 'Daily Mail' reported. The program, sold for just 1.79 pounds in the online Apple store, has now been labelled an 'aid to terrorists' by security experts and the US Department of Homeland Security is also examining how to protect airliners. The new application works by intercepting the so-called Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcasts (ADS-B) transmitted by most passenger aircraft to a new satellite tracking system that supplements or, in some countries, replaces radar."
Be afraid! Everything is a threat!
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and we can't take away all your freedoms unless you are afraid...
How is this any different from a website like flightstats.com, and I'm sure there are plenty of other sites like that too. It isn't difficult to figure out where the planes are. The app probably only makes it marginally easier to view this data on a phone. Sounds like much ado about nothing
If something could potentially be used in a bad way, even if most people aren't going to abuse it, it must immediately be banned! So, basically, anything that can be used as a weapon, too. Which is... pretty much everything.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
... instead of, say, the surface-to-air missiles
Isn't this a bit like closing the barn doors after the horses have bolted? It sounds like the protocol was designed to be easily intercepted.
"Anything that makes it easier for our enemies to find targets is madness. The Government must look at outlawing the marketing of such equipment."
Perhaps they should consider banning the ADS-B transmitters, then?
In any case, banning the app would do nothing to anyone with the funds for a SAM. See this document to make your own reciever.
Because terrorists would never, ever be able to find out this information by themselves, or crash their plane into an airliner by, uh, looking for it in the sky while they're flying.
Have we now moved on from security theater to security standup comedy? At best this seems to be a DHSvertisment telling terrorists where to get useful apps for their iPhone. which they might otherwise never have heard of.
If it can be done with a phone app, then obviously it can be done in other ways by terrorists.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck ... dont vote for it
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
What conceivable use is this to a terrorist? I've been considering this for a few minutes now. My kneejerk reaction was that the government is being fucking stupid. Then I pondered on exactly how knowing which plane is which is at all helpful. Any ideas anyone? Perhaps I'm focusing too much on the hijacking scenario, and someone could use it to select a target for a SAM. But that just doesn't seem likely, since I would think you would already know your target if you go through the trouble of bringing a SAM to an airport.
We have a roomful of senior DHS and other government officials. The head of the group stands up and says, "Gentlemen, the results are now in ... everything is an aid to terrorism."
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
If you can take down an airliner at 30,000ft, you hardly need to know its final destination, or need somebody to tell you its altitude, ....
I get this argument from idiot alarmists all the time:
"We can't allow for the last link of dissemination of information to the public at large to exist, but it's okay for the information to be available. We just need to make it *less* available."
This sort of argument appears to stem from one or many of a few beliefs:
1) Terrorists are too stupid to get this sort of information from less casual sources.
2) Of all of the speedbumps to becoming a terrorist, figuring out where the flights are was the thing that was holding people back.
3) They had no idea that we had this information available (this is a variant of 1),
4) It's okay to leave information we consider dangerous out in the open, as long as you can't get it without knowing the right URL (or, in this case, the right frequencies). This isn't quite what crypto nerds mean when they say "security through obscurity isn't security at all," but it's pretty relatable.
And to think, US Cyber command is under the impression that they don't need geeks. If this is what passes for an understanding of safety and security in our government, we're just doomed.
This is a stupid argument because it is so extremely simple to figure out when to shoot down an aircraft with a SAM anyway.
You already know the approximate time when it will takeoff since that is public knowledge since the passengers needs to know.
Most airports has only one or two runways. You can easily figure out in which direction the plane is going to start (it will start at the same direction as the ones before it, probably into the wind).
Now you can simply put ourself outside the airport at the point where the plane will fly right over you at a low altitude off perhaps a couple off hundred yards. The guys that photos planes position them self correct every time with this knowledge.
The reality is that aircrafts is extremely exposed and easy to shoot down with SAMs since it is easy to get them during landing and takeoff and you can't fence off an area big enough to protect them.
tower: AC310 heavy drop to 30 thousand and proceed to outer marker on heading 31 you are clear for runway
Hm, I wonder where AC310 heavy is ?
I live sixty miles from the Mexican border. We have a bunch of undocumented/illegal aliens here. They are not terrorist threats; only very few are criminals. Most of them are ordinary people who just want a chance to live like anybody else.
DHS might be able to stop corporations, but they can't stop me from publishing the source code:
PA LAW: "The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write and print on any subject." ----- MD LAW: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution thereof, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people thereof..... the liberty of the press ought to be inviolably preserved; that every citizen of the State ought to be allowed to speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that privilege."
And so on across all 50 Member States. Nobody at the US level has the right to block publishing or sharing source code of programs I or thers create
Aside -
I found this bit of the Bill of Rights interesting: "Monopolies are odious, contrary to the spirit of a free government and the principles of commerce, and ought not to be suffered." And yet the BGE and Comcast monopolies exist. Perhaps the Maryland government should buy-out the wires and lease the lines to any company that wished to use them (BGE, PPL, comcast, cox, appletv, etc). i.e. Consumer choice is a right.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
1. Write sourceless article about interesting software labeled by unnamed 'security experts' as 'a serious security threat'
2. Mention that the Department of Homeland Security also thinks about security threats
3. Get article mentioned on Slashdot where people still don't RTFM in any detail, but do like to shit bricks that mention DHS in any context
4. Get traffic to ad-driven site
Thanks to the Streisand Effect, Plane Finder AR will doubtless skyrocket to the top of the charts by the end of the day.
If this were a legitimate security risk, they just did about a thousand times the damage that it would have been had they ignored it. Pathetic. This is why efforts like the Cyber Command is such an obvious failure to anyone with a lick of Internet-savvy before it was ever launched.
Selective quoting is wonderful.
But come on, that sentence is badly written in the first place.. It is so easy for someone without the full knowledge of the English language to get the wrong idea...
Undocumented workers pay income tax and payroll taxes, too. They're the ones who should be having tea parties - they get taxed, but they don't get the vote.
The solution is to remove the cheap labor from the equation completely
Here's a better solution: Make it easy for the cheap labor to come into the country legally. The farmer would then have to comply with all of the labor laws to employ them, including minimum wages. No more $2 per hour melon pickers.
Most of the problems with illegal immigration (the actual problems, not the imaginary problems) boil down to having this class of people in the country who don't dare interact with the US legal system. Make them legal, and all of those problems disappear.
Make it a crime to employ an undocumented worker.
It is a crime. It needs to be a bigger crime, though, and we need a good way to catch such employers.
I suggest turning the people who absolutely can't be fooled about the employee status against the employers. Who absolutely knows the legal status of the employees? The illegal employees themselves. Offer a green card to any illegal who rats out their boss, throw the boss in jail, and very quickly you'll find that no one is willing to employ anyone who can't prove they're legal.
Make it a crime to pay someone less than minimum wage
Again, it is a crime. And because it's a crime, it doesn't happen -- except when the employees are afraid to use the legal system.
or better yet, a crime to pay someone less than fair market wages
What's a fair market wage? And how can the market set a fair wage if no one is allowed to pay one penny under whatever that wage is? Markets require a range of prices offered to settle on a price that is fair. This suggestion makes no sense.
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