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Best Buy Unapologetic About Charging For PS3 Firmware Updates
donniebaseball23 writes "After discovering that electronics retailer Best Buy was charging ignorant customers $30 for the 'service' of installing updated firmware on PS3s, IndustryGamers got word from the company on its policy. Best Buy sees no problem with charging for this convenience, even though it's something Sony provides to PS3 owners completely free. 'While many gamers can handle firmware upgrades easily on their own, those customers who do want help can get it from Geek Squad, and we continue to evaluate this offering to ensure it meets their needs. The service goes beyond a firmware updates, and includes user account setup, parental control setup and other components,' a representative said."
hey retards, you're paying for labor
if you pay for a firmware update, you deserve to have $30 taken away from you
sony will do it for free if you send it in for 6-8 weeks. eat that
A company making a killing on a service sees no problem with offering it? I am shocked. Shocked, I say!
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Are you appalled by the charging or the ignorance? The entire IT service industry works on this principle.
That's even harsher than it needs to be phrased.
There are plenty of sharp, smart programmers or techies who are pulling down $150/hour; if this saves them more than 12 minutes, it's arguably a good deal. If it's a well-known enough operation that it eliminates the chance of spending an afternoon fighting with the install, it's even better.
Just because something doesn't have a high actual dollar cost doesn't mean it isn't worthwile; people pay $10 every day for a meal that isn't worth more than a couple of bucks in ingredients because it saves them time cooking and time cleaning.
So, if my grandma took in her computer to pay to have them do a defrag and update some drivers, maybe run a q-tip across the DVD drive laser--all things that she could do for free at home--she's getting robbed?
I don't get the controversy here, unless BB was lying about what they were doing.
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How is this different from paying someone to install/upgrade an OS or applications, remove viruses, install a hard drive, add RAM, upgrade a video card, etc? All of these things can be simply done by an end user with a small amount of instruction.
Or changing the oil in your car, or washing your car, or the many simple things we pay other people to do for us?
I take it this is how you feel about those times you visit the mechanic and he or she rips you off as, just because you don't understand how to rebuild a clutch. You're just a fool and should be therefore separated from you hard earned money, right? Reality check: no one can know everything about everything. It doesn't mean you are a fool. It doesn't make the people who got scammed (which is what this is) fools.
Seriously, how hard is it to *not* rip people off whenever you can?
so go to another store, let best buy charge whatever they want, and let consumers and the market show them their sins.
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I see both sides here. The reason most people who are upset about this are bothered seems to be that it's something that seems trivial to them. On the other hand, to Johnny Layman, perhaps 'installing firmware' brings to mind Druidic runes and rituals beyond comprehension - so he takes it to his Best Buy and pays a fee to avoid having to do the work himself. The process is still simple, but what Mr. Layman is paying for is the peace of mind knowing that it is being done by 'professionals' (at least, supposedly). It's not really any different from when Grandma calls a tech support service (and pays for it) because her router needs reset. Sure, she could do it herself, but it's intimidating and there's a fear of 'breaking' something.
To go off on a tangent for a moment, I feel that this is honestly the root cause of a lot of problems when it comes to the typical user and computers. Most people who were around before or at the very beginning of the advent of computers are simply intimidated and say that they're afraid of breaking the computer. They don't know how they would 'break' it, there is just that ever-present fear of the computer somehow being destroyed if they touch it. I try explaining that it's really hard to actually 'break' a computer short of physically damaging the hardware and that when your data is backed up on the company network, there's really not a lot to be afraid of, but it's no use. You can walk them through it step-by-step, but if you don't physically sit down at the computer and do it yourself, they'll still be afraid of something going wrong.
You order pizza instead of cooking it yourself for EXACTLY the same reason. Cooking pizza is extremely easy. So is installing the PS3's updates.
Pizza requires raw ingredients, time to prepare those ingredients, and time to clean up from the preparation. This situation is more like you have a frozen pizza ready to go in your freezer. Would you take your frozen pizza to a store and pay $30 for someone to put it in the microwave for 5 minutes for you? That's about the level of effort required here.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
In the pre-installation case? They're selling open-box hardware at premium prices? And yes, it should be considered open-box, because who knows what they did once it was opened? They could have dropped it, lost cables and manuals, swiped free software/coupons, etc. Once the manufacturer's seal is broken, you can't be 100% sure what you're getting and thus the merchandise should be discounted appropriately.
OMG! How dare a money making company actually charge people money for providing a service to people who can do it for free!! /sarcasm
Is that kind of response expected by the submitter?
Seriously, for a site filled with geeks who think they are smarter than the general populace, this article FAIL on so many aspects. Just to name a few
1. Economics 101 - price is determined by supply and demand. If there are people who are willing to pay $30 for someone to do something for them, it is not a company being evil for providing said service for $30, even if it cost the company nothing. Cost does not determine the price, the cost of business only determines how much profit the company can make. If you are pissed about that, go ahead and start your own company to offer this service for free. (much in the same spirit of "write your own patch" in OSS)
2. Business has a fixed cost, in rent, in salary, in opportunity costs. So it is never really free to help people to install updates.
3. Guess what? Some people value their time at more than $30 for half-hour, and will be willing to pay $30 to someone if it will save 30mins time and headache. Not everyone is living in their mom's basement with nothing to do and no money to spend most of the day.
4. Grow up. Most "service industry" is based doing things for people that they can do for themselves, in some cases for free, and that includes a large portion of the IT industry.
5. From the comments so far, most /.er are more intelligent than the submitter.
Oliver.
The problem with this is that the other stores look at the pile of money BB is making and start doing it to. The legitimate ones lose value as a non-competing dog in the eyes of the stock market and you know what happens after that.
Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
It's not the same idea as an oil change. Firmware updates are automated.
They are literally charging for something that no user needs any knowledge or skill to perform.
It has a resemblance to service or IT. That's how the scam works... posing as an IT service.
That some locations don't even stock the PS3s without this 'service' says quite a lot. That this is a service that takes no knowledge to perform (you don't even need to know it needs to be done!) says quite a lot.
We're talking about a fee for the sun coming up tomorrow.
It gets worse! There's places that charge you for making dinner! That's right! There's actually people who go out to these places to have meals made FOR them! WHAT FOOLS!
Actually, Wal Marts are several steps above Best Buy. Both of them fail compared to a strong online store (including Wal mart's strong online store, which blows best buy's out of the freaking water)..
For one thing, the guy I just spoke with about routers at Wal Mart knew what he was talking about, unlike the last time I bothered with a Best Buy.
And more importantly, Best Buy routinely rips people off.
The Best Buy down the street does not stock PS3s without this 'upgrade'. that's wrong.
Best Buys are routinely caught being unethical with computer repair stings. they are caught being unethical with a fake in store website. They actively try to weed out and drive away the scrupulous customer, as policy, which you already know since you work there. They are so far below Wal Mart it's not even funny.
And I hate Wal Mart.
This is not $30 worth of work, and you know it. If Best Buy thought the market would bear this price, they wouldn't eliminate PS3s without the service performed against choice.
If you can't be bothered to plug it in and create an account, you have no business buying it.
unfortunately that kind of attitude is born of pure ignorance. you can say many arrogant things about them from a nerd perspective but you cant say they have no business buying it.
The reality is i know plenty of people who own a ps3 and if i sat them down in front of it and said "connect this thing to the wifi router your isp gave you" they would be absolutely lost. yet it makes up the majority of people who own the platform, they are the reason the platform itself survives. they buy every game they own. they know how to shove the disk in the drive and click "multiplayer" on call of duty. But thats about it really.
the best part is they (without exception) have other very redeeming features. they know how to do my tax cause they're accounting geniuses or they know how to replace the oil line on my motorbike cause they are mechanical geniuses... whatever they're reason for existing is, they can afford a ps3 and they add market share to a platform i (personally) like. More power to them. The most amusing part is they think about me (when it comes to tax) the same way you think about them "why would someone pay me to do this thing that is so very simple".
If they're willing to shell out 30$ to have some pleb at best buy setup something for them, great, so long as they keep buying games for the ps3 then we (ps3 owners) ultimately end up being better off for it.
Best buy maybe doing something not-so-nice, but its the kind of thing i can live with. Now if they managed to modify the ps3's they sell so the only way you could do a firmware update was to take it to them and pay $30 then yeah, i'd go after their blood even though i didnt buy my console from them.
You probably never worked in the IT industry catering to the consumer. I used to work as an onsite computer tech and our customers would gladly pay a few so that we would do the "complicated computer stuff" for them. One guy payed me $95/hr to come out to his house every few weeks just to install Windows updates. He watched me every time and knew how to do it but he still did not want to do it himself.
BestBuy is providing a service which some consumers appreciate. If you are not one of them then shop somewhere else.
Everyone who buys Wild Hunt will receive 16 specially prepared DLCs absolutely for free, regardless of platform.
Selling something in an online store is not the same as advertising online for a brick-and-mortar store.
I don't think you know what the word "ethic" means. An Ethic is a value system which guides your judgement on the morality of actions.
Capitalism is an economic system where private entities are the primary participants in economic activity, not governments, and the movement of money ("capital") is paramount. Capitalism does not enable you to make judgements about right and wrong. Communism is a political philosophy extending the economic principles of Socialism to an extreme.
Libertarianism is about the closest you get to an ethic - Libertarians judge everything in the context of whether it affords or enables personal freedom or not. Capitalism is perhaps most closely aligned to Libertarianism, but a system of ethics it is not - perhaps you're referring to ethos?
I really have to stress how many people come in requesting a service like this. I tried to convince people many times just to go home, plug in their device and simply head to the 'download updates' section, but I would constantly get responses like "I don't have internet", "Its just too confusing" and "I don't want to do it myself". Its idiots like this that create a market for a simple service downloading updates, and Best Buy would be even dumber to turn away potential revenue from customers that are willing to pay for something this simple.
You were doing great right up to this point. What exactly justifies calling people who make an informed decision to purchase a service they aren't comfortable with doing themselves idiots ?
There are a lot of smart people in the world who are computer illiterates. I have one customer who just paid me 2 hours labour to do an initial setup on his new laptop. The usual - take it out of the box, connect to wifi, decrapify, and run updates. He's not comfortable doing it himself, he wants to know that it was done right, and he wants me to be familiar with the system so he can call me if he has problems. He's also a heart surgeon - hardly someone I'd consider an idiot.
Not to mention that he includes in that "idiots" label people who don't have an Internet connection and so cannot download the update.
Too many people on here consider anyone who is not familiar with their own chosen area of expertise to be an idiot, while conveniently ignoring the huge gaps in their own knowledge.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Except you still bought the drive from them, so pretty clearly it isn't a death knell for Best Buy, but rather a sign that even when someone sees the kind of shit they're pulling, they'll STILL be a customer. I can understand if you absolutely NEEDED that hard drive then and there and this was literally the ONLY place within 100 miles where you could get it, but to do what you did and then still buy it - it doesn't send them any kind of message, and it definitely does not bode badly for their chances to survive.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
It took about as much labor as the bag boy at the grocery store pushing my cart out to my car, and I only tip him 3 or 4 bucks... Hell, hes happy getting 3 bucks. Most people only tip them a dollar.
This isnt geek squad going to the house and setting the wireless up, and updating the firmware, and setting the parental controls. This is geek squad opening a box, mashing 5 min worth of buttons, repacking the box, and charging 30 bucks.
Then they no longer have PS3s that havnt been "improved" by Best Buy. You have to pony up an extra 30 dollars if you wish to purchase one there. So when the little grandmother walks into the store to pick up her grandsons toy, she gets bent over the barrel for 30 dollars by the lies and misdirection that Best Buy always propogates
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
A comment that starts out "hey retards" and ends with "eat that" is modded insightful, rather than the "flamebait" it deserves? From an AC no less? WTF is slashdot coming to? Yes, the $30 is for labor and I'm sure that's discussed in less inflammatory terms later in the comments, and what's worse a comment further down that discusses it like adults rather than a twelve year old AC hurling insults is probably modded "redundant".
PLEASE, slashdot, bring back the old metamoderation system so bad moderators don't get more mod points.
Free Martian Whores!
I used to work for the neurology department. I was, literally, working for brain surgeons. Smart, smart people. They did high end research, in addition to surgery, they all held joint positions at the hospital and university. However only one of them knew anything more than basics about computers. They rest just didn't care. Computers were a tool to get their job done, that was all. They didn't learn about them because they didn't want or need to, that's what they paid me for. Also because of this they did whatever I said, easy bunch of people to work with. I'd say "You need X," and the answer was "Buy it." I told them "With the new system do things this way," and they all did. They were used to the idea that in medicine, when an expert tells you what it to be done, you do it. I was the computer expert, in that small domain my word was law.
None of them were stupid by any stretch of the imagination, just very, very focused. They did what they did well, and relied on others to do what they did well.
I do think too many computer people decide that anyone without computer skills is an "idiot" as though we should all have the same skill set. Can't deal with a command line? Can't compile a program from source? Can't write your own scripts? Oh you are a moron. EVERYONE should do that... Of course the person saying that is often unable to cook even a simple meal from base ingredients for themselves, or explain the basics of colour matching and so on. They've decided that their field is the important one, and everything else is irrelevant.
"Then you were not working with idiots. I've worked with IDIOTS. I'm talking about people who freak out if their desktop icons get rearranged. I'm talking about people who submit helpdesk tickets... I expect... I expect..."
The guy who wrote the post you replied to made the point beautifully, and you didn't get.
"Sadly, most people I've come across are incapable of these simplest things."
There are three options here. #1 - You're working in a special needs facility. #2 - You're looking at the world through horribly jaded eyes and actually believe that. #3 - That's a straight up lie.