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College Student Finds GPS On Car, FBI Retrieves It
mngdih writes with this excerpt from Wired:
"A California student got a visit from the FBI this week after he found a secret GPS tracking device on his car, and a friend posted photos of it online. The post prompted wide speculation about whether the device was real, whether the young Arab-American was being targeted in a terrorism investigation and what the authorities would do. It took just 48 hours to find out: The device was real, the student was being secretly tracked and the FBI wanted their expensive device back ... His discovery comes in the wake of a recent ruling by the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals saying it's legal for law enforcement to secretly place a tracking device on a suspect's car without getting a warrant, even if the car is parked in a private driveway. ... 'We have all the information we needed,' they told him. 'You don't need to call your lawyer. Don't worry, you're boring.'"
When the FBI tells you "Not to worry" and "Don't call your lawyer", do you want to guess who the very next person you should call is?
Hint: It's not your mom.
How about the FBI throws you in jail for destruction of government property, obstruction, and any other charges they decide to toss your way (rightfully or not)? Is the amount of time spent sitting in a cell, the money lost in lawyers fees, and the hassle of going to court really worth it?
Now that we have pictures we can identify future devices.
When you find one, wander over to a freeway gas station and replant it on an interstate truck. At least make them work to recover it.
Take a wild guess.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
... and how about they kiss his ass, seeing as they left their property inside his for surveillance?
He's got every right (IMO) to do what he damn well pleased with it.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Well they told him "It's federal property. It's an expensive piece, and we need it right now. [...] We're going to make this much more difficult for you if you don't cooperate." If you want to pick a fight with these thugs then call the ACLU - trying to piss them off might not be such a great idea.
Yes, but how does he know that it is actually theirs?
Perhaps they are just trying to get their hands on other people's property.
Are they prepared to provide a receipt for returning the item, or some proof of ownership that he can retain a copy of to protect himself from liability.
-- Menachem
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
So what you're saying is that we've gone from "give me liberty or give me death" to "don't throw me in jail because it will make me uncomfortable".
As to your last question. YES IT IS WORTH IT. Liberty is always worth the penalty for it, the other option is to acquiesce to slavery. This is no different. Tyranny must be fought with everything we have, because the other options aren't pretty.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
The article is a good read and a little creepy. We're here to recover the device you found on your vehicle. It's federal property. It's an expensive piece, and we need it right now...We.re going to make this much more difficult for you if you don't cooperate"
Summary: not illegal/unconstitutional for the government to track your car, probably a crime if you find tracker and do anything with it.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Also: Don't believe it. Call the fucking lawyer.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
And? I travel often for business, have family in Indonesia (in-laws), and often send large sums abroad (which is where I live). Does that warrant people investigating me? No. Not everyone with money who travels is suspect.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
I have no problem with the FBI putting tracking devices on people on whom they are conducting a legitimate investigation. I have a huge problem with the fact that they can do it now on minimum suspicion and without a warrant.
Imagine further if you as a citizen had planted the device on the car of a US Senator. Imagine the trouble you'd be in.
This kind of invasive aggressive action against citizens who have done nothing (no court order) should not be tolerated.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Not that I disagree with you, but there is a pretty wide gap between saying something like this on the Internet and actually following through with it in the real world.
There's obviously no way for me to know your level of life-experience but if a person is not normally subjected to direct pain and suffering or is blissfully unaware of it the amount of effort required to force them into acquiescence is minimal. Withstanding that kind of pressure isn't as simple as you make it sound.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
Imagine if an FBI agent shows up to your house and hold you responsible for a missing tracking device you didn't know was on your car.
did you forget to take your meds?
actually, I would define subversive activities such as putting a GPS device in someone's car to track them without their consent as terrorism.
First, given all the trouble the FBI has had issuing legal National Security Letters, I wouldn't assume that there's a valid warrant until I read it.
Second, if stalking immigrant kids is the FBI "doing their job", they should find a different job. Getting a warrant requires "probable cause". Probable refers to probability. How many of these fishing expeditions has the FBI gone on? If less than 50% of them lead to arrests, they are getting warrants for improbable causes. That's unconstitutional.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
1776: "Then it's agreed, gentlemen, in order to secure our rights as a free people, we will risk embarrassment, imprisonment, expropriation, bankruptcy, bodily harm, exile and hanging." 2010: "Of course I'll waive my rights. I don't want to miss my connecting flight."
1776: "We lack representation in government and have no other recourse."
2010: "We are the government and have recourse to change laws."
After reading the TFA (yeah, I know) the FBI actions seem warranted, even though they didn't have a warrant.
Score 1 for the FBI. Epic fail for the 9th circuit. Even though they were right, they still should have gone through the proper procedure.
I don't know about you, but I'm willing to pay an extra $1/year in taxes so the FBI follows proper procedure and gets a warrant. If everybody pays that, it's about $300 million. I doubt it would even cost that much to actually do what the Constitution requires. You know, that document that you SWORE TO UPHOLD AND DEFEND?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Hysterical. You even started with: “If there's one thing I've learned from being a part of large government organizations”.
By your own logic, you told me more about yourself than you did about anyone else working for the government.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
So get a warrant.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Fits the profile of someone you want to keep an eye on pretty well, actually.
In which case, getting a warrant should be a piece of cake.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
He saw through the security theater and openly questioned it. Pretty dangerous, huh?
And so, the war against common sense and intelligence dutifully continues.
I just read TFA, I think the kid was in a no-win situation and (for him, under those circumstances) did the best thing for his own interests. Not that it's right and not that I fully agree with it, but it's clear to me he would have had quite a hassle had he destroyed or messed with the tracking device.
Now, if he had an attitude or a temper or a point to prove, and had lots of free lawyer service saved up, he definitely could have played with the fbi guys.
With his background, obviously he fits a "profile" and is one of many many people being tracked.
I remember hearing about East Germany during the heyday. I heard that about 50% of the people were in some way affiliated with the government, so basically each person had another person watching them. Everyone was under surveillance by everyone else. Not sure how true that was, but it can't be too far from the truth, lol.
My point is, the FBI must have an enormous amount of people being watched. How many agents are there who watch all those people? Amazing. And how boring that must be, doing surveillance all day every day. And paperwork after that.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
1776: "The government is across an ocean."
2010: "The government habitually plays big brother (and just did)."
You must be someone with a huge amount of capital and/or someone who runs a large corporation if you feel you actually have recourse to change laws.
At the point that the FBI is secretly attaching tracking devices to your car, being 'legally right' is moot. They are already carrying out secret operations against you. Your better bet is to just let as many people know what is going on as possible, so when you disappear, there is some hope that you will be found.
Oh crap, I've said pretty much that same thing. Maybe I should check my car... oh wait, I'm not brown, the FBI won't care.
"Hello, Police? Yes, my mechanic has found what appears to be a pipe bomb attached to the underside of my car. Could you please send some units, and bomb disposal, here immediately, I am concerned for my life."
It's a long black pipe, sealed at both ends, with an antenna wire hanging out of it, and magnets to secure it in place. While it may be a GPS tracker, it could just as likely been a pipe bomb with a remote trigger. Best let the authorities blow that sucker up. And if the FBI come by asking for their tracker back, you can have them arrested for instigating an act of terror on American soil by planting their "pipe-bomb" on your car.
And then the legal system disappears up it's own fundamental orifice.