Watch the 1st American Newsreel of Sputnik Launch

MMBK writes with this snippet from motherboard.tv: "Fifty three years ago this week, the Russians won the space race – or one of its laps – by successfully launching the Sputnik satellite into orbit. This newsreel, the first to report on the launch, recycles older animation about geosynchronic orbits, since all film footage was kept secret (note the very un-Soviet IBM logo on one of the massive computers)."

Comments

Respect

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I gotta admit begrudging admoration of the Russians for this one.

Re:Respect

[Anonymous Coward]

How about for the first living creature in space? Or the first man in space? Or the first woman in space? Or the first space walk? Or the series of Moon, Venus and Mars landers? Or the automated Moon sample return mission?

If you have a real grasp of the history of the Space Race, you need a lot more than a "begrudging admoration" for the Soviets.

Have you read "Space Race" By Deborah Cadbury? You should. Then you should add "War in 2080" to your list.

Re:Respect

[Pharmboy]

Because of that political contest we ended up with the pile of manure known as the shuttle program, and wont make it to the moon again for nearly a century after the last time we put foot on it. What a complete waste of resources.

Many would argue that going to the moon is a waste of resources, at least when it comes to sending humans. We have already been there and can send probes for a tiny fraction of the cost. Manned exploration is fine and dandy, but only in small doses if you want to get the best use of your resources. Same with Mars. Yes, we want to put a human up there and get them back, if for no other reason than "because it is there", but most of the really good science will happen with probes and rovers, not humans that have to sleep and eat half the day, using a majority of the resources to launch and maintain the craft simply to keep them alive.

Re:Respect

[mortonda]

Heh, I was wondering if anyone else spotted that.

Re:Respect

[sznupi]

Yeah, it's amazing what zombie Stalin could do to people for several years after his death.

Re:Respect

[sznupi]

The "space race" was some of the best work humankind has ever done, for all the worst reasons.

That's true on a much more fundamental level than you put.

In the case of Russians, for example:
Which rocket put Sputnik into orbit? One from R-7 lineage.
Which rocket put Yuri Gagarin into orbit? One from R-7 lineage.
Which rockets put Soyuz and Progress spacecraft, and many other payloads into orbit? ...yeah, from R-7 lineage.

What was the first operational ICBM? R-7 Semyorka. ...not even very good as an ICBM, not very practical. But turned out to be a fabulous launcher; it is "the most reliable ... the most frequently used launch vehicle in the world" (and that's coming from, basically, its competitor)

Re:Respect

[sznupi]

This one's nice too:

How about having a few decades of experience with operating a manned spacecraft essentially capable of beyond-LEO operation? Soyuz was actually the first spacecraft to carry macroscopic living creatures (most notably - turtles :p ) beyond LEO (around the Moon, to be exact) and bring them back safely (via the more complex profile of skip reentry), on a Zond 5 mission.

If you have $100 million, you can get yourself a ride (those are the folks so far responsible for all private orbital flights, except the first one to Mir around 1990)

And their lander reached a flight tested & operational status...

Re:Respect

[AK Marc]

1) Stalin died years before Sputnik.
2) You catch more files with honey than vinegar. (sounds good, may not apply, but you can't argue with Grandma or she'll kick your ass - well would have but now she'd dead, so until the zombie apocalypse you are safe, for now)
3) If threats were sufficient to generate superhuman results, why did the Soviet Union's economy fail so badly, based mainly in their inability to produce food at the targeted levels?

Or, in other words, you are full of shit. But thanks for giving your 100% incorrect opinion dressed up as a fact (and even the facts were wrong, but based on incorrect opinions, we wouldn't expect anything else). I'd suggest that you consider some hedging wording when you are sharing your incorrect opinions as fact, but we've learned you are way past being able to take corrective criticism, so I'll just stick with the "you are full of shit" evaluation of this and most anything you say.

Re:Respect

[shutdown -p now]

It's pretty amazing to be able to do that kind of work knowing that Stalin will have your whole family killed if you don't succeed.

Stalin was long dead by the time the Sputnik was launched. What more, he was already dead by the time the Soviet space program was even kicked off (as the extension of ballistic missile program)!

Furthermore, it wasn't even something initiated "from above". It was Korolyov who convinced his superiors that non-military space program would be extremely beneficial for USSR prestige if it can be pulled off before US does it - and also that they could pull it off in time.

Re:Respect

[Kilobug]

USSR economy "failing so badly" is propaganda. USSR was far from perfect and had many problems, mostly political ones, but also some economical ones, but you can't said it "failed". Just look at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP.gif . GDP of USSR in 1990, just before the fall, was more than 3x the GDP of USSR in 1970, +200% in 20 years is a feat few countries can achieve. And it took very long for the capitalist Russian Federation to reach the level of the USSR.

USSR collapse was much more due to political reason and the "usual" collapse of a repressive regime than to economical reasons.

Re:Respect

[siddesu]

Jeez, that's a really awful text

/ hides in shame

Re:Respect

[Cyberax]

Progress spacecraft are not put into the orbit by R-7 but by Proton rockets. R-7 is very reliable but it's not powerful enough for large payloads.

Re:Respect

[sznupi]

No, just no; which is a most straightforward fact, easily confirmed in the most straightforward of places. Progress is not a large payload; Soyuz and Progress are, as far as the launcher is concerned, virtually the same.

Proton is, among other, for Salyut/Almaz/TKS-type payloads; an entirely different league.

Re:Respect

[sznupi]

Hey, on the plus side it was only few minutes for you to realize what kind of nonsense you've written; "some people go their entire lifes," and so on...

Re:Respect

[RichiH]

> I gotta admit begrudging admoration of the Russians for this one.

Why the grudge? They were better and faster so they won that part. Though I suggest you don't read up on who put actual rovers onto the Moon, Venus & Mars first. That might disturb your tiny slice of USA-centric knowledge & feelings even more.

The fact that you can't seem to spell admiration makes your post even more amusing.

Re:Respect

[AK Marc]

One of the reasons the increase was so large is that the economy was so poor in 1970. Their peak per-capita GDP never reached even half of the USA.

And once communism was gone, the GDP has lagged even more. Communism was better for their economy than capitalism has been.

You mistake my comments to be about the fall of the USSR, and not about them having 5-year plans and never meeting a single one. By their own measure, their economy was permanently a failure. That was what my comment was about, and the actions in the '80s and early 90s aren't related to my point. But if you'd like, I could discuss the fall with you. Back in my academic years, I'd written a few hundred pages on that subject.

Re:Respect

[elrous0]

Have you read "Space Race" By Deborah Cadbury?

There was also an excellent docudrama done of this book. Sadly, it only aired a few times in the U.S. (on the National Geographic channel) and isn't available on video in the U.S. (only in Region 2). There is a real animosity in the U.S., institutional or otherwise, to anything which presents the space race from any other perspective than NASA's (and even the NASA documentaries in the U.S. tend to ignore completely or downplay significantly the contributions of Werner Von Braun). You could probably fit everyone in the U.S. who recognizes the name Sergey Korolyov into one room, though no one in history did more to put machine and man into space than he did.

Its a good thing

[Pharmboy]

Actually, I have always thought that the Soviets getting a satellite into space first was a good thing, as an American of 45 years. It put the fear of ungod into the American military complex to get into space, which ended up netting more good science than simply building bigger and bigger bombs. It also created a huge demand for science, and boosted the desire of teenagers to enter the science field. Nothing like fear to motivate a country into investing into science.

Being raised during the cold war in a lifer military family might color my perspective, but a lot of good things came out of the cold war. One of them is the internet, which might have taken much longer to develop if not for the fear of Soviet ICBMs, reinforced by that humble little beeping satellite named Sputnik.

Re:Its a good thing

[Keruo]

but a lot of good things came out of the cold war. One of them is the internet

I sometimes think how the world would work if there weren't the internet we know of today.
It's amazing how hard it would be to do some tasks that we consider trivial today.
Voice line telephone networks would be much more heavily used compared to what those are today.

Re:Its a good thing

[Pharmboy]

Or more scary is the internet could have started as a purely commercial venture. Imagine if it had not existed, and AOL had created their own version of the internet. It is kind of what they were trying to do before the open internet kicked their butts. You would have several private nets (like in the 80s) and eventually, the big ones would buy out the small ones. You would have MUCH less content, as the price to enter the market with a website would be dictated by singular corporate interests. Most important is the fact that Free Software wouldn't be as far as it is now, with a more limited distribution method.

The only reason that the internet is as open as it is now is the US govt. was naive enough to not know what it could really be. Otherwise, they would have tried to control it more.

Re:Its a good thing

[Keruo]

Microsoft tried the "internet as a commercial venture" but luckily the real internet caught on instead the MSN that was shipped with windows 95.
You're spot on about the content. That's what made internet what it is today.
Content seems to be driving other industries aswell. It seems like it's irrelevant if you can actually make calls with current smartphones, but oh boy! if they can't run the fart app of the week.

Re:Its a good thing

[Keruo]

Netbios?
IPX?
*runs away scared of the thought*

Re:Its a good thing

[Pharmboy]

Perhaps IP over Avian.

Re:Its a good thing

[Cwix]

No.. (cue scary music) Appletalk

Re:Its a good thing

[Gerzel]

We'd have several [smaller networks] based on protocol[s] other than TCP/IP.

Re:Its a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no way of knowing that the story I'm about to tell is true, so please take it with a grain of salt.

Supposedly, Eisenhower's goal was to have the Soviets make the first space flight to establish an international norm that overflying countries while in orbit was not a violation of territorial airspace. Once the Soviets had orbited a satellite over the US, they could hardly object to the US orbiting a satellite over them.

Re:Its a good thing

[NJRoadfan]

The original MSN was for the most part, an AOL style service with its own interface. They did try "exclusive" websites later on though, like the original startrek.com

Nitpick: Its obvious whoever captured this video didn't use a time-base corrector on the VCR output.

Re:Its a good thing

[sznupi]

You wouldn't be thinking of those tasks, wouldn't be doing them, wouldn't miss them. Generally, it would be just life as usual.

In many places people remember such times a bit more vividly. Like in ex-Soviet block, where the net access became reasonably available only during the last decade, and large portions of societies aren't plugged in almost at all; or so called developing nations in general.
Even if it's there, it's often somewhat different from what we are used to - for example access via mobile phones being the rule, and so called "feature phones" at that (as long as it has gprs and j2me, it can run some IM and, most importantly, Opera Mini - check what kinds of phones are most widespread, check growth numbers)

Re:Its a good thing

[DerekLyons]

Actually, I have always thought that the Soviets getting a satellite into space first was a good thing, as an American of 45 years. It put the fear of ungod into the American military complex to get into space

Well, the problem with 'your thought' is that is has nothing to with 'the facts' - because in reality, America was already trying to get into space.
 

It also created a huge demand for science, and boosted the desire of teenagers to enter the science field. Nothing like fear to motivate a country into investing into science.

I have never seen any statistics that indicate any noticeable increase in people entering the sciences post Sputnik.

Re:Its a good thing

[Johnny O]

Decnet Phase IV

Re:Its a good thing

[sznupi]

OTOH that which we do not speak about perhaps would seem more...living; less like a zombie at the least.

Re:Its a good thing

[houghi]

The scary thing is that fear is the motivator. Then it was the ruskies who wanted to take over the free world, now it is the terrorist.

Also do not forget that although that fear brought spaceflight, it also brought mccarthyism.

Re:Its a good thing

[BritneySP2]

It is hard to believe that Eisenhower would worry so much about international norms as to let the Soviets win the space race, especially given the fact that the US had been violating their airspace using high-altitude U-2s on a regular basis for quite a while by then (until the Soviets shot one down in early 60s).

Re:Its a good thing

[sznupi]

Yup, that's why all the competition among US mobile providers, essentially each of the big ones using their own preferred tech, brought a much better situation for customers than in the places where there is essentially one mandated standard (that some of them have 2x lower population density assured they will always behind); all the incompatibility, interoperation issues, small economies of scale and customer lock-in only strenghtened competition.

Oh, wait...

IBM 650

[NixieBunny]

That sure looks like a cartoon of an IBM 650, a "low-cost" business computer of the late fifties. Why it's in this movie, I have no clue.

Re:IBM 650

[eln]

Probably because they asked the artist to draw a computer with blinky lights (to signify something high tech) and that was the only computer he had ever seen. After all, it's not like your average person encountered 50 different computers a day back then like we do now.

Re:IBM 650

[Tablizer]

Probably because they asked the artist to draw a computer with blinky lights (to signify something high tech) and that was the only computer he had ever seen. After all, it's not like your average person encountered 50 different computers a day back then like we do now.

A computer salesman from the 70's once told me about how his company release a new model of minicomputer that was about the size of a picnic cooler, but was about 1/4 the size of the prior model. However sales were poor until one of his colleagues decided to encase it in a bigger box with lots of flashing lights. If you wanted to get laid, would you rather have a plain black box or a WOPR?

Re:IBM 650

[MichaelSmith]

They were talking about recieving the signal so I suppose the computer represented the tracking systems in the west. It means don't worry, Uncle Sam and Big Blue are keeping an eye on the situation.

Re:IBM 650

[Tablizer]

and added small pieces of lead to the phone to make it heavier, because the weight of the phone in those days was still seen as a sign of quality.

Why not just include a bigger battery? That way you get more time.
     

IBM computer in an American facility?

[Jeeeb]

After watching the video I don't think the IBM computer shown is meant to be in a Soviet facility. They talk about how the sound being played at the time is an actual signal from the Sputnik, which makes me think that it's meant to be an American signals interception facility. Maybe even with the IBM logo added to make that clear

Either that or they weren't immune to product placement in the 50's ;) Either way an awesome video.

Re:IBM computer in an American facility?

[Type44Q]

After watching the video I don't think the IBM computer shown is meant to be in a Soviet facility.

Perhaps not (I couldn't get the vid to play, at least not without letting a bunch of unknown shit past NoScript) but it's well known that IBM's Continental division sold computing devices to the Nazis during WWII. I also have it on good authority that Mitsubishi Zeros wore American rubber on their landing gear during the war and this was no secret at Goodyear.

Considering these aren't the only things I've learned that have implications which fly in the face of what we've been taught in the history books, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Soviets were using IBM's in their space program.

Re:IBM computer in an American facility?

[gman003]

It was stock footage for explaining what "orbit" is.

Re:IBM computer in an American facility?

[societyofrobots]

You're right - the signal was intercepted and Sputnik's position was tracked by the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, DC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitrack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Vanguard

Vanguard, which could have been launched before Sputnik, wasn't a national priority until after the launch of Sputnik.

Re:In more recent news

[Pharmboy]

The Soviet Union collapsed, and the USA doesn't give a sith about space anymore.

Sure we do. It's where you put the weapons.

Re:Wrong.

[Pharmboy]

Probes might do good science, but man alone inspires our kids to become scientists.

You lack imagination and underestimate children. To think that the only reason a child would want to enter science is because they saw a spaceman on the surface of mars is absurd. Most don't need to be manipulated, only pointed in the right direction. And not everyone in science gets to fly to the moon. Actually, most of the people who get to fly to the moon aren't scientists at all. Some people enter science out of the desire to be part of something bigger than themselves. Humans landing on the moon helps, but if you think that landing rovers that crawl all over the place for months sending back photos, and crashing probes into asteroids, and videoing comets explode over Jupiter isn't freaking cool, then yes, you lack imagination.

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[Lanteran]

Yes it is. When space races happen, humanity wins.

Re:Wrong.

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Videoing comets explode over Jupiter isn't cool. You know what's cool? A Billion dollars.

Have to ask this...

[painehope]

What's so different between putting a man and a woman in space? I could see the "first child conceived in space" or the "first birth in space", but why does the (astro|cosmo)naut's gender matter in this context?

Oh, yeah, I forgot. If a "man" (which can refer to either a male or female when used to refer to the species collectively) goes to space, or the moon, or Uranus, it's not fair until we get a woman up there too. /. should run an "Ask Slashdot" article (or at least have a poll) about the extent to which political correctness (known as "PC bullshit" amongst us in the know) has infiltrated the scientific community.

I'm not saying you're a PC zealot, but saying something like that out of a context where it would make a scientific difference (menstrual cycles, neurobiology, etc.), which gender the lucky bastard who gets to get slung into space ahead of so-and-so many tons and tons of rocket propellant (which hopefully doesn't blow up and kill them, RIP Challenger) just says to me that irrelevant crap is penetrating deeper and deeper into our collective mindsets. Next we're going to have the NAACP suing NASA over their "Equal Opportunity" hiring practices or selection criteria to be an astronaut. I'd be tempted (just to be an asshole) to tell them that we've already sent chimps, but that's probably why I'm not the spokesperson for any large agencies or companies (because I'm a flippant guy with a crude sense of humor who thinks people take themselves too seriously given half a chance).

Now I'm being too serious and long-winded about a simple point. Time to take my happy pills and go back to drinking bourbon straight...

Re:Have to ask this...

[dbIII]

It is just another "first", just like "first American in space", but in each case it is a major exercise with more aims than just being first.

Re:Have to ask this...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

What's so different between putting a man and a woman in space? I could see the "first child conceived in space" or the "first birth in space", but why does the (astro|cosmo)naut's gender matter in this context?

I dare you to ask your mother, aunt, or grandmother that question.

Re:Have to ask this...

[nacturation]

If a "man" (which can refer to either a male or female when used to refer to the species collectively) goes to space, or the moon, or Uranus, it's not fair until we get a woman up there too.

Must... resist... Uranus... joke...

Re:Have to ask this...

[catmistake]

I could see the "first child conceived in space" or the "first birth in space", but why does...

AFAIK, space is everywhere. All children were conceived and born in space. Oh, but you probably meant "outer space." But there is a concept we all have considered at one time or another... known as sex in zero-gravity. I would think gender matters in that context.

Re:Have to ask this...

[Sir_Lewk]

Are you attempting to imply that those individuals are more likely to give an emotional response, instead of a rational one?

You sexist pig.

Re:Have to ask this...

[rts008]

I could see the "first child conceived in space" or the "first birth in space"...

Well, I'll agree that the "first child conceived in space" might be interesting, I for one do not want to be on the spacecraft when her 'water breaks' for the "first birth in space".
I can't even imagine all the problems caused by that event in zero-gee! Yuck!

I hope none of that splashes into your bourbon. ;-)

Re:Have to ask this...

[sznupi]

Birthing pod.
Which, considering some traditional ways of ending the presence of humans, could bring few interesting thoughts / something about "life & full circle" on one hand, and big shift for humanity on the other (because ways of body disposal might very well be different after all, not traditional anymore)

Or it will just happen in semi-normal conditions thanks to centrifugal "gravity" (it might indeed be required for human growth; surely there were some experiments with mice? A small colony of them on one of upcoming lunar landers might be interesting, too)

Re:Have to ask this...

[whrde]

You have no idea about either the politics of space programs or sexism.

Sending things into space has an enormous impact on society. To the Soviet society (where everyone including women were "workers" as opposed to only paying and recognising half of society based on their "scientific difference") cosmonauts were an extremely important inspiration (especially for children, including girls).

It may be "irrelevant crap" to you, but in our gendered society and in the Soviet's slightly less gendered society, women leaders serve an irreplaceable role. Without "PC bullshit" you will never get the objective, non-gendered society you yearn for, but I'm not sure you've ever actually cared to try to understand gender issues.

(PS why do you assume that when a women gets hired it must be because of "Equal Opportunity" but after years of millions of men getting hired you assume every single one was qualified and not privileged?)

Re:Have to ask this...

[Grygus]

I suspect the barriers to a woman becoming an astronaut are higher; if nothing else, societal pressures would almost preclude the option for most American girls. Perhaps being able to meet the physical requirements are more rare in women, as well; I don't know. At any rate, if it's harder for a woman to become an astronaut then it's a bigger deal when she makes it, isn't it? And when she does make it, it's bound to be reported; people love an underdog story.

In addition, in our society woman have historically been left behind in the workplace due solely to their sex - it is not a coincidence that there were zero American women astronauts until the 1980s; because of this, it might well be in NASA's best interest to point out that they are no longer using such practices. In that case, differentiating women may be simply a PR move.

I think you are seeing political correctness where it doesn't need to be involved at all. Recognizing women isn't the same as preferring them.

Re:Complete with...

[painehope]

At least it was original (except for the part about mounted lasers and the reference to Nancy's labia - the latter is from a Bill Hicks' skit that would probably cause you to break down and cry for mommy, or tearfully admit to your roommate [while he was trying to coax you out of hiding under the mattress] that she touched you "down there and it felt good but I felt bad about it later" - because something really fucked-up must have happened to you so that you can't appreciate a joke, even a "disgusting" one) , somewhat relevant, and disgusting. Put that shit up on YouTube and I'd actually navigate over to that fucking site, watch it until I went temporarily blind (either from the screen glare or the moonshine), and then go to sleep thinking humorous thoughts.

Seriously?

Mod parent down. This post is disgusting

And clouds are generally white and fluffy, children aren't cute unless they're yours, and no matter what you try, people will make gross jokes. Most people actually delight in making gross jokes. Check IMDB ratings (as well as theater and DVD revenue) for PG-13 or R-rated comedies with a predominantly disgusting sense of humor. I guarantee you they dominate "clean humor" movies across the board. Especially if they make fun of politicians.

It's called human nature. Get over it. I, for one, would watch the Sputnik launch once or twice (I've seen it before a few times), but actually save a video depicting something like what I described.

Very interesting documentary video

[Psychotria]

Personally I find the introduction to a Roger Ramjet cartoon more informative (and with better music), though

Re:Very interesting documentary video

[Psychotria]

I've just re-examined the footage and it's lost none of its informativeness

Re:Very interesting documentary video

[irockash]

The very first shot reminded me of this old Superman cartoon.

Appropriate for that evening, 20 years in advance.

[bobdotorg]

That's no moon!

Re:Wrong.

[sznupi]

Remind us again how that enthusiasm went after Moon landings, with lots of footage available?

Re:Appropriate for that evening, 20 years in advan

[CrazyJim1]

Sorry no mod points future Mr. +5 funny. They referenced it as a moon 3 times. And appropriately enough, it is no moon. Lucky for us, it is also not a Death Star. The Soviets were pretty cool on not ending all life on Earth though so I doubt they'd have fired the Death Star at us either. If it wasn't for terrorists threatening to blow civilization apart, we could live happily right now. I guess world hunger, disease and lack of quality education kinda would hold the world back from a full scale peace party, but getting out of the cold war is still a plus.

Re:What's old is new again

[seifried]

Facebook runs on Linux and can be used from any reasonably standards compliant web browser (all of which are free and many of which are open source) so what's your point exactly?

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[ooshna]

Umm the ability to have gps is one thing oh pretty much anything that uses satellites and of course Tang.

Re:Complete with...

[sznupi]

You know, that AC almost looks like an effort to keep that post / quote visible ;)

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[hairyfeet]

Hi MR AC! You want references I'll be happy to give them to you even though I'm not the original poster. Here you go. For those that don't want to TFL I'll summarize a few: The world's most accurate topographical maps thanks to sats, two little girls that wouldn't be alive thanks to severe UV allergies that were saved thanks to NASA designed suits, the LVAD artificial pump, based on the shuttle fuel pumps, the metal in your golf clubs, the suits worn by NASCAR to protect drivers from fire, there is quite a few there and the list is no means exclusive.

You can say what you will about NASA and the space race, but the research NASA has done and funded has seriously benefited us all. Oh and those flashdrives we all love? IIRC they were originally designed so sats could have non volatile memory that could take the G-forces and not be damaged. Considering I never go anywhere without my thumbdrive and flash MP3 player I have to say Yay NASA!

More entertaining film

[Eric Smith]

The Story of Sputnik

PS.

[sznupi]

On the second thought, maybe he's onto something...

Uhm... Read your history!

[Cyberax]

There _were_ several commercial internets (small 'i') - CompuServe, AOL and so on.

There were also free noncommercial global networks, FidoNET was the largest one.

So no, Internet could have happened even if it was purely commercial.

Re:some understanding required

[sznupi]

Yeah, those pesky Russians never really brought anything of use to the world, we would notice by now... (FYI, Soviet satellite states were often shielded / prohibited from conducting certain types of activities)

Kinda interesting...

[hitmark]

that the narrator use the word "intercontinental" to describe the first stage. A hint at it also being capable of dropping a nuke on US soil?

Re:Kinda interesting...

[bsDaemon]

They already had ICBMs at this point, and a lot of the first space rockets were just re-purposed missiles. Don't forget, the space programs of both the US and the USSR were boostrapped with captured German scientists and technologies. We road to space in the wake of the V2.

Re:Kinda interesting...

[hitmark]

My knowledge of the time in question is rusty, but how much public knowledge was there about ICBMs at the time of sputnik? I thought nuclear delivery was still focused on bombers around that time (tho both sides would have had rocket programs considering the demonstrated ability of V2 during the recent war).

I just wonder what the point was of including such a word in the narration, as being intercontinental have very little to do with getting satellites into orbit (tho everything to do with delivering something to somewhere on the planets surface).

Well, I'm not so sure 'won' as 'competed well'

[nanoakron]

I know that Americans feel it dents their national pride to admit it, but the Russians categorically won the space race.

America achieved only a single victory - the first man on the moon - and then decided that was enough so just sat back from there.

However, the Russians had already done all the rest - first animal, first orbit, first man, first woman, first moonwalk.

So if you're happy as a nation to believe you 'won' because of a single victory, go ahead.

However, the rest of us know the truth.

Re:Well, I'm not so sure 'won' as 'competed well'

[kaltsbert]

... first moonwalk.

Perhaps first spacewalk? Leave something for the Americans too :-) It's a shame that the Soviet film material from the era is so much worse than what NASA was able to provide. It would be interesting to see quality footage from the Soviet accomplishments too.

Re:Well, I'm not so sure 'won' as 'competed well'

[painandgreed]

I know that Americans feel it dents their national pride to admit it, but the Russians categorically won the space race.

Yes, but it is a good example of winning the battles and losing the war. Where are the USSR now? Gone and surrounded by former Warsaw pact nations that have sided with Western Europe if not actively feuding with Russia. Even the USSR is no longer as they are just "the Russians" as former parts of the USSR have separated to form even more hostile counties on their borders. There were only two really important parts to the Space Race besides the publicity battle and that was for putting satellites up in orbit and to launch ICBMs. We both did the first and nobody did the second. Meanwhile we had the high altitude flying knowledge before hand to run U2 and SR-71 spy missions as well as plenty of bombers based on their border to drop bombs. The only way the Space Race would have been the sole importance in the cold war is if they would have built the missiles and launched them before the US had caught up. In the end, it was an economic battle and they picked all the wrong choices.

Re:Well, I'm not so sure 'won' as 'competed well'

[sznupi]

And who knows how much of nice material neglected, forgotten, lost...

Some of those are quite nice; but I guess if people remember anything, it's virtually only Apollo-era photos shot with medium-format Hasselblad cameras. Quick search also gave eerie Phobos pictures. And Soviets knew how to make a good camera, Zenit line was quite nice.

Re:Well, I'm not so sure 'won' as 'competed well'

[elrous0]

It's just a shame the Soviets themselves were so secretive about their own program. They had a lot to be proud of, and yet kept so much of their program a state secret (or under-publicized). NASA, by contrast, were complete media whores who made it sound like they invented the very concept of rockets. This created the popular misconception that lasts to this day in the U.S. that the Soviets were somehow lagging behind the Americans for the entire space race (when, with the sole exception of the moon landing, was the opposite of the reality).

Re:What's old is new again

[Ash-Fox]

...... The "walled garden" of the iOS is bigger than Linux. iOS tops Linux ...... Facebook has 500 million active users, Steam 25 million ......

I've been able to use Facebook and Steam on Linux for years. I don't get your point.

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[moonbender]

There's no question that the research done originally for the purposes of space exploration has benefited humanity in other areas. The question is whether the money spent on it would have resulted in greater good if spent elsewhere. The answer to that question is relevant to the decision where to spend the money in the present and future. Not that I'm saying the two situtations are the same, but: A country could decide to dig the world deepest hole, and that effort would probably result in a number of benefits and accomplishments (besides the hole): lower unemployment, interesting archeology, high durability shovels, redstone. It's still probably not the best investment.

Re:some understanding required

[moonbender]

One has to understand the the USSR scientific potential was the one of the former Soviet Union countries plus current Israel.

The stupid "socialist" enthusiasm was a result of an ugly massive civil war, which had roots in 19th century's deep social conflicts.

... and is still going on, even today.

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[hairyfeet]

I'd say it has to be a big "YES" because as we have sadly seen in the USA money that doesn't go to NASA ends up being used to make bigger bombs, military vehicles that are 4000% over budget and run like shit, oh yeah, and bridges to nowhere as well as Virginia having the best roads in the USA thanks to their senator "bringing home the bacon".

Re:Appropriate for that evening, 20 years in advan

[Lanteran]

I find your lack of original conversation disturbing.

Or...

[RichiH]

Or it was simply a ton of work to draw stuff by hand so they re-used pics where they could.

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[bsDaemon]

What part of Virginia are you in that you're insinuating the roads are any good? Even the Federal interstate infrastructure around Hampton Roads, which is chock full of military bases, is dilapidated crap with a gazillion choke points 'cause they won't just bite the bullet and fix the damned tunnels.

I wish Warner and and Webb would bring home some road bacon, 'cause right now we're getting shafted.

Re:some understanding required

[WindBourne]

Actually, while the USSR had many inventions, space access was not really one of them. America was much further ahead, which is why we made it to the moon first. Soviets basically developed things along a similar line to America, but would push the tech PRIOR to being ready. Of course, the do get to say that they had some first. But things like claiming that they invented the space suit first, is total balony. Just that they used it a couple of months earlier. Heck, even sputnik was pretty worthless, while AMerica's first sat, was announced first and did loads of scientific work. Even USSR's launch of Laika was nothing like what they described back then.

Re:some understanding required

[sznupi]

Ah, yes, it's good to be able to convince oneself that only the "concluding success" counts (do you not realize how one can dismiss anything with "they were just using such things earlier"?); I'm sure it also explains how both sides lost approximately the same number of astronauts while rushing...

Sputnik 1 provided valuable data about micrometeorite environment, ionosphere and upper atmosphere densities. Sputnik 2 (second Earth satellite launched) actually detected Van Allen belts, but Red Scare was in full swing and there was huge delay in passing on the date; nobody before Laika knew how exactly macroscopic living things will react / how viable trying to quickly send humans is (that Laika didn't exactly provide those answers is another issue; later efforts went better)

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[moonbender]

You make a pretty convincing argument. :)

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[rockNme2349]

First one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope

Then one of these (RIP): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wmap

Putting satellites in orbit has brought forth some of the best data to help us understand the universe we live in.

product placement in the 1950s

[Something Witty Here]

>> Maybe even with the IBM logo added to make that clear
> Either that or they weren't immune to product placement in the 50's

Check out _Ozzie_and_Harriet_ pushing Coke, or
_I_Love_Lucy_ pushing cigarettes.

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[Phantom Gremlin]

there is quite a few there and the list is no means exclusive.

Tang. Don't forget Tang.

Summary misses important point

[treeves]

Sputnik wasn't about "winning the space race". It's what started it. Could have said "the Soviets got off the starting blocks first." Before that, the US was at the snack bar, not aware that a race was about to begin.

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[hairyfeet]

Sorry I was thinking of Byrd and West Virginia, which has really nice roads going nowhere. I can feel for you though pal, you should try the roads in AR. But give credit where credit is due they have been building and adding lanes here for nearly 30 years now. The funny part is in some small way that was MY fault. I ran into Bill when he was governor at the mall. He said "How am I doing?" and I said "Great except for the roads in the north Gov" and dang if Bill didn't say "If you've got a couple of minutes I'd sure like to know which ones, as I don't get to go up north much". There I am a long haired biker sitting at the food court with the governor telling him which roads are the worst. Give the man credit he said right after Xmas (this was in the middle of the Xmas shopping rush) he'd announce a new road project for north of the capital and damned if he didn't do it. That project is STILL going (the roads up north were 50s era messes) but it IS getting better.

Yankees can say what they want about old Bill not keeping it zipped, but if he'd come back to AR we'd happily elect him gov for life. He we'd even put up with Hillary again.

Re:The space race is not one you can win...

[dave87656]

Launching the first multi-stage orbital body is a great scientific break-through and therefore a "win". We were trying to do the same thing, but the Russians were first.

The reason why we were the first to the moon "Our German scientists were better than the Russians' German scientists."

Re:Complete with...

[painehope]

Now that you mention it, you're right. Christ, can't even make a joke anymore without it getting all complicated. Must be getting old. Gotta go - fuckin' kids on my lawn!