Badgers Digging Up Ancient Human Remains

One of England's oldest graveyards is under siege by badgers. Rev Simon Shouler now regularly patrols the grounds of St. Remigius Church looking for bones that the badgers have dug up. The badger is a protected species in England so they can not be killed, and attempts to have them relocated have been blocked by English Nature. From the article: "At least four graves have been disturbed so far; in one instance a child found a leg bone and took it home to his parents. ... Rev. Simon Shouler has been forced to carry out regular patrols to pick up stray bones, store them and re-inter them all in a new grave."

Comments

Oblig

[sgbett]

http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/badgers/

Re:Oblig

[Himring]

Oh, that's right, slashdot. Sorry, zoned out and peed myself after clicking that link....

Re:Oblig

[Anonymous Coward]

Unleash the Dachshunds

Burying Bodies

[DirtyCanuck]

Is it me or is the tradition of being buried becoming more and more ridiculous the further we venture into the reality that is the future.

Frankly cremation is the current preference, that doesn't end in a badger exhumation.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sgbett]

I was thinking the very same the other day, it's a fine example of 'doesn't scale well'. I'm carbon all the way baby. Liking the industrial diamond option (which I suppose technically, also doesn't scale well!) but hoping the price comes down a bit.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Clueless Nick]

Donate eyes, liver, kidneys or whichever organs can survive 'death', and cremate the remainder. There will only be a finite number of corpses that medical research can accept.

On the other hand, if we cease to exist when we die, how can we decide what to do with the corpse after death? It should be left to the family members or community or government to decide how to recycle or treat the waste.

Next up: flamewars about inheritance and communism

Re:Burying Bodies

[asliarun]

I totally agree. Only a human being faces the possibility of being badgered in both life and in death.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Councilor Hart]

Strange, I have the completely opposite view. Why waste fuel on cremation when you can just bury them. Carbon is stored in the ground and some nutrients are returned to the soil.

Re:Burying Bodies

[lenawash]

and the living won't be pestered with all those stupid zombie movies anymore.
cremation = no zombie.

Re:Burying Bodies

[tygerstripes]

So rather than donate you body to science, you can donate it to de Beers :-)

Re:Burying Bodies

[sgbett]

Because you can't build on the land for several hundred, if not thousands of years. In some countries that's a problem.

Re:Burying Bodies

[tygerstripes]

Agreed. Graves are a good carbon-sink :-)

Re:Burying Bodies

[worx101]

Why not just bury and people become the fertilizer of the future? or soylent green can be a alternative :P

Re:Burying Bodies

[sznupi]

Burning wastes resources... and for what? (well, in many places burying does, too - seriously, concrete tombs and metal caskets?)

A solace for living participants that there will be some reflection about them; preferably in an orderly manner. That they will be remembered - but ultimately we ourselves don't treat very old memorials, very old customs, very old faiths as anything more than archeological curiosities.

PS. Also, Ig Nobel 2008:

ARCHAEOLOGY PRIZE. Astolfo G. Mello Araujo and José Carlos Marcelino of Universidade de São Paulo, Brazil, for measuring how the course of history, or at least the contents of an archaeological dig site, can be scrambled by the actions of a live armadillo.
REFERENCE: "The Role of Armadillos in the Movement of Archaeological Materials: An Experimental Approach," Astolfo G. Mello Araujo and José Carlos Marcelino, Geoarchaeology, vol. 18, no. 4, April 2003, pp. 433-60.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Hylandr]

All these interstate highways have at least 50 feet of available burial ground between the lanes and small critters often don't have much of a chance at making it over to invade.

Problem solved.

- Dan.

Re:Burying Bodies

[BoberFett]

I'm intrigued by that company that will press your ashes into a playable record.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sznupi]

It's quite the other way around..."natural" burials scale exceedingly well. Number of people who have ever died is estimated at around 100 billion. Add to that countless other species in the time span of hundreds of millions of years, I don't think cremation of remains (not to mention industrial diamonds) is anywhere near scalable.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sgbett]

We don't have states or highways, thus we do not have interstate highways. When I say 'some countries' that was for the benefit of the american audience, what I mean is 'not in america'.

Here is an interesting graphic btw. http://static02.mediaite.com/geekosystem/uploads/2010/10/true-size-of-africa.jpg

Re:Burying Bodies

[gaiageek]

This might make people drive a bit more slowly and safely on the highways. Of course, holding the traditional funeral ceremony could be a bit of a problem...

Re:Burying Bodies

[beelsebob]

Indeed, the issue is that we still have an emotional attachment to the remains, and care that a badger digs them up. Personally, if nature wants to find a way to use my body after I'm dead, I'm happy.

Re:Burying Bodies

[bored_engineer]

It's a nice idea, but there are one or tworeligions that forbid or strongly discourage cremation. In fact, the preference for burial may (or may not; I didn't attempt a census) include a majority of the world's population. Are you sure that it's the current preference, badger exhumations aside?

Re:Burying Bodies

[MrL0G1C]

A solace for living participants that there will be some reflection about them; preferably in an orderly manner. That they will be remembered

Having some stone stuck in the ground amongst 10,000 other stones stuck in the ground in no way means you are being remembered - seriously, does the stone look like you, does it talk, walk, think like you? - no, it's a hunk of rock with some random persons name on it wasting space.

And secondly - more natural: no it's not natural, natural would be to leave the body above ground to quickly be eaten by maggots etc.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sgbett]

You are right I shouldn't have said natural burial doesn't scale. Of course, I didn't though. The parent talked about the tradition of burial, in the UK (where the story is at) that means a graveyard.

Graveyards don't scale. Sorry for any confusion.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sznupi]

Well that's the point; illusions for the living.

And secondly, certainly "more natural"...

Re:Burying Bodies

[sznupi]

And I should have said "can scale", I guess. Yes, many modern implementations of leaving the body to nature are somewhat bizarre, to say the least. But it can work, does work for eons.

Re:Burying Bodies

[zwei2stein]

I suggest Sky Burial then.

Fun for for friends and foes.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Hylandr]

Good lord, so when I take over the Earth I am moving all of humanity to Africa and refurbishing the rest of the planet..

That is just an astounding perspective. Thank You!

- Dan.

Re:Burying Bodies

[MSojka]

Here is an interesting graphic btw. http://static02.mediaite.com/geekosystem/uploads/2010/10/true-size-of-africa.jpg

This graphic is kinda dishonest, though. It excludes most of European Russia (by itself already about 13% the size of Africa and bigger then India) from Europe.

Re:Burying Bodies

[codeButcher]

Traditional burial apparently takes place too deep for aerobic decomposition to take place. Embalming fluids, some medication and food additives, various metals in prostheses (e.g. dental fillings) further complicate the matter. Of course, cremation has its own problems with some of these, apart from the huge amounts of (fossil) fuel required.

Natural burials and ecological burials provide some (partial) alternatives.

Re:Burying Bodies

[fuzzix]

and the living won't be pestered with all those stupid zombie movies anymore.

cremation = no zombie.

Have you ever even seen a zombie movie?

Hint: Few feature the grave.

Re:Burying Bodies

[MikeFM]

I want my head wired up and put in a jar Futurama style. My body should be frozen, shattered, and the frozen bits launched into space.

Re:Burying Bodies

[gilleain]

Here is an interesting graphic btw. http://static02.mediaite.com/geekosystem/uploads/2010/10/true-size-of-africa.jpg

This graphic is kinda dishonest, though. It excludes most of European Russia (by itself already about 13% the size of Africa and bigger then India) from Europe.

True, Russia is the biggest country, but in the list of countries ordered by size there are quite a few African countries in the top 40. Sudan, Algeria, and the DRC at 2 million KmSq; Libya at 1.7; Chad, Niger, Angola, Mali at 1.2; ... er just a minute - what the hell is "European Russia"? Surely you don't mean Ukraine, Latvia, and other former Soviet states? Not a particularly popular terminology for that region :)

Re:Burying Bodies

[M1FCJ]

Cremation is rather wasteful. I'd prefer any remains after the NHS is done by picking up any reusable parts to be composted and recycled.

Re:Burying Bodies

[ladoga]

This single image tries to embody the massive scale, which is larger than the USA, China, India, Japan and all of Europe...... combined!

So Sweden, Finland and Norway aren't part of Europe? :)
Or what about European Russia.

Whoever made that map is in serious need of some geography lessons.

Re:Burying Bodies

[ladoga]

er just a minute - what the hell is "European Russia"? Surely you don't mean Ukraine, Latvia, and other former Soviet states? Not a particularly popular terminology for that region :)

No, he doesn't mean that.

Didn't they tell you at school that Ural moutains are considered to be the dividing line between Europe and Asia?
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/russia/europe.htm

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really a problem. Both pure capitalism and pure communism requires that the possessions of the dead are given to society rather than kept by the relatives. (For equal opportunity to exist no-one can have the advantage of being born rich.)
Idealism however tend to go out the window when genetics are involved and parents usually reserve the right to provide for their children, even after death.
This is one of the reasons we will never see a fair society where everyone is treated equal. Communism vs. capitalism has very little to do with it. (But they tend to blame each other for the problems.)

Re:Burying Bodies

[gmack]

Reminds me of when my friends were taking out life insurance and the insurance guy starts trying to change my mind about single guys not needing life insurance by saying "What happens if you die? Who will pay for the funeral?"

I managed to get him to leave me alone with "I'll be dead, they can give me a 21 flush salute for all I care."

Re:Burying Bodies

[Alphathon]

I assume it means the part of the Russian Federation which is part of Europe rather than Asia

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

May I suggest this use for your bones then? :)

http://www.kostnice.cz/

Re:Burying Bodies

[roman_mir]

forget about 'between the lanes', how about under the road itself?

Re:Burying Bodies

[demonlapin]

It doesn't include Denmark or the Netherlands, either. Or the Ukraine. And, of course, it leaves off Canada.

Re:Burying Bodies

[pthisis]

This graphic is kinda dishonest, though. It excludes most of European Russia (by itself already about 13% the size of Africa and bigger then India) from Europe.

It also omits Alaska from the overlay. Alaska is the size of Spain, France, Germany, and the UK combined.

Hawaii's left out as well, but that's a much, er, smaller problem.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sgbett]

Agreed, if people could get over the emotional attachment to dead body thing, then some kind of composting solution would be surely the most eco-friendly/responsible course of action.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sgbett]

Yes, ensuing arguments about europe notwithstanding, it absolutely blew my mind when I saw the US overlay. That mercator chap has a lot to answer for!

Re:Burying Bodies

[Calydor]

"Here lies Dan.
He lived his life in the fast lane.
Now he rests next to it."

Re:Burying Bodies

[Sulphur]

The original point of a headstone was to protect the grave from animals.

--

Badgered to death and gone to a furry grave.

Re:Burying Bodies

[d3ac0n]

Exactly right.

Which is why I want to be plastinated after I die. My family can keep me in a glass coffin and use me as a coffee table! Or just stand me up in the corner. If nothing else, I'll make a great hat and coat rack!

;)

Re:Burying Bodies

[artg]

Burying people scales fine, at least for number if not for localised rate. The problem is with reserving the places they're buried in for a period much longer than their actual life. We should fill a graveyard, then reuse it as a field and move the burying onto another place. A period of say, 100 years between burying and growing would leave adequate time for direct relatives to feel their loved ones were respected. Turning perfectly good fertilizer into carbon, on the other hand, is silly.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you signed up for their newslestter?

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a particularly popular terminology for that region :)

Fuck them, it beats the hell out of "USian". Fucking commies.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you can't build on the land for several hundred, if not thousands of years.

You'll need graveyards in the future, too. So the space doesn't really go to waste. They're already recycling existing graveyard space around here. You either pay rent or the grave gets reused after some time (two decades or so). Sounds like a good solution to me.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Your missing the big picture! Soylent Green!

Re:Burying Bodies

[Minwee]

I have seen the only Zombie movie I ever need to see. The rest have no rhythm.

Re:Burying Bodies

[smooth wombat]

does the stone look like you, does it talk, walk, think like you?

If you saw Serenity, the first two parts are true (well, not the stone itself but the image in the stone).

Re:Burying Bodies

[lxs]

Are you saying that we should bury our dead in Africa? Have the Africans been consulted on this?

Re:Burying Bodies

[wed128]

So when a grave gets reused, is the new body buried on top of the old one? are the old bones moved? what is the process for this?

just curious...

Re:Burying Bodies

[sznupi]

Certainly there are "compromises" possible which would only require a small push in the right direction.

Many cemeteries are already also quite pleasant inner-city parks, for example. Burying bodies on a side in a way allowing active decomposition / for the plants to sensibly benefit, plus some memorial wall - that should be quite quickly accepted. Some customs are reasonably close already (yeah, we can gather the bones after decomposition like that too, why not)

Unfortunately, I imagine there would serious push-back from the death industry - the main beneficiaries of embalming, "grave sprawl" or steel and hardwood coffins plus graves lined with concrete; which appear designed to prevent decomposition - to hell with long-term consequences (hey, we will be already dead by then anyway, so who cares...)

Re:Burying Bodies

[sgbett]

Interesting thought! We could pay them per body, they can use them as fertilizer to help with crops. What could possibly go wrong!

Re:Burying Bodies

[hey!]

Monasteries have long faced this problem. In Greek Orthodox monasteries, bodies are buried for three years -- long enough to reduce them to skeletons. The bones are then disinterred, cleaned, and transferred to an "ossuary" or "charnel house", typically sorting the remains by type rather than origin (all the skulls together, all the femurs together). Roman Catholic monasteries took this practice a step further in the 17th and 18th Centuries, using the bones decoratively.

Re:Burying Bodies

[cusco]

The graveyard in Seattle where Bruce Lee and Jimmy Hendricks are buried has a great view of downtown and the mountains, and is a favorite picnic spot.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's Alaska?

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

I love how it says "USA, China, ...combined" and compares that to Africa - is it any wonder we've got pageant contestants thinking Africa is a country? "Asia is bigger than China, Russia, Japan, and Iran combined!!" A-flippin'-mazing, a continent with several countries is bigger than a few countries put together...

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

We could always go the Soylent Green route.

Re:Burying Bodies

[scradock]

Are you saying that we should bury our dead in Africa? Have the Africans been consulted on this?

Why not? Humans originated there - send the remains back home, don't leave them littering the rest of the planet....

Re:Burying Bodies

[operagost]

It's only a shame you couldn't travel back to the 12th century to push cremation on those eco-hostile cretins before they allowed themselves to be buried! By the way, the intense heat needed for cremation adds "carbon" to the atmosphere.

Re:Burying Bodies

[operagost]

Unfortunately, most areas have minimum requirements for disposing of remains and they aren't that cheap.

Re:Burying Bodies

[operagost]

Looks like they probably included the area of Alaska and Hawaii in the land area of the USA, but forgot to put them on the map. Still clever.

Re:Burying Bodies

[operagost]

Burying a corpse is natural. It's the natural behavior of homo sapiens. When an elephant or chimp covers its dead with debris, do you run up and uncover it because it's unnatural? STRAW MAN NOTE: I didn't say anything about embalming, sealed caskets, etc.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree fully... in fact, I'm looked at like an outcast and a nutjob everytime I even say I want my body buried without any surrounding box or at least cremated.

Re:Burying Bodies

[the_womble]

what the hell is "European Russia"

The portion of the Russian Federation that is in Europe, as opposed to most of its land area which is in Asia.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

European Russia is roughly the part of Russia that is West of a line drawn north between the Aral and Caspian Seas. It includes such minor cities as St. Petersburg and Moscow and is far more densely populated than most of Asian Russia. Maybe you've played too much Risk since it labels much of this Ukraine?

Re:Burying Bodies

[QuantumBeep]

Only a human being faces the possibility of being badgered in both life and in death.

Badgers also have that problem.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

According to several sites (German language, so not much use linking them) it depends on the municipality. Some cremate remaining bones, others re-bury them with the new coffin/urn.

Re:Burying Bodies

[MoonBuggy]

How about donation to medical school? They're always looking for corpses to practice on and they'll cremate the remains when they're done.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Just Some Guy]

Personally, if nature wants to find a way to use my body after I'm dead, I'm happy.

I'm not particularly Buddhist, but I kind of hate the idea of my mortal remains locked up in an airtight box 'til the end of time, cut off from the rest of the world and the abundant life around me. I'd much rather think of earthworms returning me to the soil so that I can keep being part of the "circle of life" and all that.

Re:Burying Bodies

[sznupi]

It's BTW amazing to me how Buddhism appears to, basically, almost manage in making people value... cessation of existence. To long for such outcome, in a way (except "longing" is inappropriate description of course); how it won't include rebirth(*) doesn't change the end result.

Now, I can't really know how it ends up in the actual folk flavors of buddhism, but it's a start / certainly seems to successfully convey more wisdom about our existence than premises of life everlasting (particularly its folk "we'll mostly just carry on, but in a greater place")

(*)But even here, considering consecutive lives aren't supposed to consciously remember previous ones, merely to draw on their "experience" - it can be very quickly attached to the overall societal progress, or indeed of our whole civilization.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Golddess]

I'm not particularly Buddhist, but I kind of hate the idea of my mortal remains locked up in an airtight box 'til the end of time, cut off from the rest of the world and the abundant life around me.

Or Judeo-Christianity. When did "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" turn into "ashes to plastic, plastic to eternity"?

Re:Burying Bodies

[smi.james.th]

Um. Dude. There are no interstate highways in England. The motorways barely have a couple of metres in the middle and there's usually a concrete barrier in that area.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

It also appears to be leaving out Norway, Sweden, and Finland. That's like 10% of Europe.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

See? that way it's easier for your body to be resurrected and reassembled for judgement when Christ comes with his saints to judge the world.

Re:Burying Bodies

[Anonymous Coward]

Polluter! You are contributing to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by being cremated. Better to just stuff you in the ground -- badger bait. At least there your body serves a purpose other than killing earth.

Re:Burying Bodies

[RockDoctor]

I'm intrigued by that company that will press your ashes into a playable record.

I'm intrigued by where they're going to find the record players. And the stylii.

Re:Burying Bodies

[MyLongNickName]

Ummmm. No. Again you prove just how ignorant you are.

Burials have occurred for a minimum of 80,000 years. There is a great deal of archeological evidence for this. It may have occurred for thousands of years before that. Cremation is a much younger tradition. So, once again, your assertions are wrong. You might have an axe to grind against religion, but it definitely impairs your ability to critically thing.

Re:Burying Bodies

[fuzzix]

I have seen the only Zombie movie I ever need to see. The rest have no rhythm.

"This video contains content from Vevo, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds" - that is a good-ass movie.

Re:Burying Bodies

[MyLongNickName]

130,000 year actualy, in Israel. Which kind of reinforce my point.

1) Cite your source.
2) You really think there were Hebrew people in Israel at 130,000 BC? ROFL

Re:Burying Bodies

[sznupi]

Aren't there some multimedia displays on headstones? Essentially the same thing already...

Vigilantism

[Anonymous Coward]

If humans were digging up graves, the church could have security shoot at them, in self defense. Why do badgers have more rights than humans?

Re:Vigilantism

[Anonymous Coward]

History Detectives had an episode about people putting bombs in their coffins to prevent themselves from getting dug up and dissected in medical schools.

But whether it counts as self-defense when you're already dead is at best a complex question.

Re:Vigilantism

[rpjs]

Uh this is England. Shooting people, other than Brazilian electricians and tooled-up lawyers, is rather frowned upon here.

Re:Vigilantism

[Anonymous Coward]

Firstly, this is the UK, the police carry guns infrequently, security services hardly ever. Secondly, how exactly is it self defence if the badgers are digging up graves as opposed to attacking the security guards? And finally, badgers don't have more rights than humans, but what makes you think the corpse of someone who died hundreds of years ago is more important than a living, endangered species? As trolls go, you definitely need to put in more work.

Re:Vigilantism

[beelsebob]

No, no they couldn't – they could call the police, they could go and confront them and ask them to piss off, they could not shoot them. The latter option at least is available with badgers, but you may have to use different language.

Re:Vigilantism

[pspahn]

Why do badgers have more rights than humans?

Because, unlike you (presumably), badgers are at somewhat of a disadvantage when it comes to the freedom to choose where they want to live.

Animals, in many cases, should have more rights than humans, especially endangered ones. If you don't like it, then stop fucking up their habitat.

Re:Vigilantism

[kainosnous]

I don't think you could stretch it to self defense, but when I first saw the article, my thought was "This belongs in idle. Just shoot the badgers." However, looking at the responses here, I see that I am in the vast minority. Suggestions seem to range from "It's just human remains, let the kids play with them." to "We can find better ways to get rid of the bodies". Sure, I know that once a person is dead, the body is an empty shell, but I'm still of a mind that it trumps some animal. I guess this is why sometimes I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone.

Re:Vigilantism

[Nursie]

Why would human remains trump badgers?

Why should our emotional attachment to bit of dead folks mean that cute, furry, stripy badgers should be killed?

I don't think it's the twilight zone. The UK has already wiped out pretty much every wild animal it ever had that was larger than a badger. And we like badgers.

Re:Vigilantism

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Why do badgers have more rights than humans?

Because they never hire lawyers to exercise them.

Re:Vigilantism

[Anonymous Coward]

The GP is a fine example of why this sort of news story is coming about.

I'm quite a fan of the new government for the most part, but since they've come to power there's been an escalation of "news" stories about foxes attacking people, badgers causing problems etc. Call me cynical, but I find it strange that these sorts of stories have started to appear frequently at the same time as the government is making a push to bring back Fox hunting (no, not hunting as in America i.e. with guns- the sick fucked up version that only people with a disturbing psycopathic blood lust would enjoy) and to allow for badger culls by farmers.

I don't think any of this stuff is new, limited to badgers, or particularly newsworthy to be quite honest. I think it's just a case of needing something in the news about them to bolster the governments position on killing them so that irresponsible farmers who have destroyed their habitat pushing them into urban areas or into contact with their cattle in the first place can continue to be irresponsible, and can continue to grow fields of cabbages which they never harvest anyway because they grew too much, but want their government subsidy.

Re:Vigilantism

[teh kurisu]

I like the idea that you think a church in a tiny village in rural England a) has security, and b) has armed security.

Re:Vigilantism

[demonlapin]

What I know about rural England could fit in a thimble, so: is it such a harmless place that not a single parishioner owns a shotgun and is willing to use it?

Re:Vigilantism

[EdZ]

Maybe you're reading too many tabloids (i.e. reading any tabloids at all)? I've never heard any stories abut foxes attacking people, and this is the first I've heard about badgers causing trouble either, apart from one story about how culling may speed up the spread of TB among livestock.

Re:Vigilantism

[xaxa]

What I know about rural England could fit in a thimble, so: is it such a harmless place that not a single parishioner owns a shotgun and is willing to use it?

Probably.

In any case, rural England isn't very far from urban England, and urban England will have police in cars, armed if necessary (i.e. only occasionally). That village is certainly rural, but it's only 8 miles from the nearest town (Melton Mowbray, home of the pork pie. The village is one of the places that makes genuine Stilton).

Wikipedia entry for the village
Village news

Re:Vigilantism

[Wizard Drongo]

Given that shotgun licences aren't very easy to obtain, and you need to show just cause for having one (being a farmer is usually good enough), they're not as common as once was the case.
Also, if you go brandishing a shotgun, the armed police will be called.
In the US, "armed police" means a fat 45+ normal cop with a donut, coffee and a 92F.
In the UK, the only armed police are the ones that do armed standoffs, terrorist incidents etc., somewhat like your SWAT teams, and they carry MP5's and are the serious, young, very-fit used-to-be-in-the-special-forces types, who will shoot you if you look dodgy. And get away with it in court, too.

And yes, merely walking around the church-yard with a 12-bore will get them called out. Even if the vicar knows they're there, a local old biddy can make the call and the cops will show up. In 3 or 4 off-roaders, and a helicopter.

Think I'm kidding? "Cool story, bro" time. My dumb-ass moron neighbours (i live in a shitty area) decided they were gonna go rabbit-hunting in the woods on the hill behind our 'hood. Being they a) drug-addled idiots, b) teenagers and c) completely lacking in any knowledge about firearms or the armed police, they thought it'd be fine to go waving around their air-rifles.
Yep, air-rifles, not even .22's. They also had BB pistols which, to a blind, half-dead dickhead old person might look like something resembling a 9mm. So they started threatening some normal dog-walking folks with their BB's.
Normal folk think "meh, moron neds with BB's, suppose I should phone the cops though, they'll only be out causing trouble later otherwise". Cops get phoned, are told someone has a handgun and was threatening people. They respond in force, helicopter, dogs teams, the works. Cops come to my neighbours flat-block where the wee shits have since ran too, having heard the chopper.
We then have an armed stand-off as the wee shits are pulled out the house one by one, by the 12+ armed response guys standing out from of the building (not to mention the ones surrounding the rear etc.) with the loudspeaker etc. Neighbourhood is cordoned off, the gardens behind the buildings got the guys coming in, vaulting fences etc. moving the old grannies out sunbathing (now shitting themselves, LOL) etc.

For a BB airgun. In the woods, near a somewhat isolated housing estate.

Now imagine the response for someone discharging an actual real firearm, in the centre of a busy town.
Then ask again if anyone who needs a firearm for their livelihood (as in, they'll lose their farm if they don't have one because of livestock regulations etc.) would be willing to come do the dirty deed on jeremy the badger

Re:Vigilantism

[JasterBobaMereel]

They usually will live in one extended family in one place for hundreds of years ... and once established will put up with people and their buildings etc..

So I suspect the Badgers have been there longer than people ...

Re:Vigilantism

[mike2R]

Oh really? Fears Grow as Fox Spotted on Top of a Horse.

:)

Re:Vigilantism

[operagost]

Call me cynical, but I find it strange that these sorts of stories have started to appear frequently at the same time as the government is making a push to bring back Fox hunting (no, not hunting as in America i.e. with guns- the sick fucked up version that only people with a disturbing psycopathic blood lust would enjoy)

Oh, so I guess you mean the kind of fox hunting with dogs tearing apart the foxes that only a cultured English gentlemen would enjoy?

Re:Vigilantism

[demonlapin]

Well, generally, you call the local constabulary before you go shooting that sort of thing. "Hello, officer, it's Rev. Jones. Mr Williams will be hunting badger tonight, no need to worry over a few shots fired. Drop by and help him out if you like." I knew a guy once who had a full-auto license. He made a point of calling the appropriate sheriff's department before firing it in unfamiliar places.

That said, in the US you'd need one for coyotes, wildcats, wild/roaming dogs, etc. Idyllic place indeed if that's never a worry.

Re:Vigilantism

[Wizard Drongo]

If you did that, you'd definitely get the armed cops out, assuming the local plod you called wasn't a nice guy (they've done away with common-sense possessors in recent years, in favour of social-studies graduates who wouldn't know what a criminal was if he was standing in front of them, picking his pocket, but can tell you the 47 different ways you can break someone's human rights by referring to them in the wrong tense in a sentence, or how to avoid offending someone by the correct use of politically correct language!)
In addition, since badgers are a protected species, you'd also have the wildlife protection bunch come down to help add a dozen extra offences to the list. This, along with the armed response team, the local plod who'll attend because it's in their patch and it's more interesting than sudoku, the forensics boys, the "victim counselling" people in case anyone has been traumatised, the "community relations" team in case you're a member of an ethnic community (to try and avoid a race-riot) will mean it's now a "major incident", which gives higher-ups a chance to attend, along with their crew of media-relations folks etc. so you might get the news crew too if there's nothing else interesting occurring

Basically, it's all about job-justification. Armed-response teams aren't really in much demand. The entire UK had about 100 gun-related deaths last year, and this is mostly down to inner-city gangs. Compare with the US which has about 4 times the population but about 15,000 gun deaths.
Outside of London and a few other inner-city gang-wars, there isn't much need for ARU's. But of course they have to have one since if something *does* happen, they can't borrow a team from London etc. This means they're constantly trying to justify why they have 5 team members not four etc. so if there's anything they can remotely attend, they will, and they'll escalate it to where some dumb kids playing with firecrakers (one of whom has a sun-tan) is suddenly an Al-Queada training-camp.
It's a mad, mad world...

Re:Vigilantism

[Anonymous Coward]

All in all, what you're saying is that a little poisoned meat would be a much easier route.

Badger badger badger

[Anonymous Coward]

Badger badger badger badger. Leg bone! Leg bone! Ohhhhh, Grave!

Re:Badger badger badger

[L4t3r4lu5]

Already done

Re:Badger badger badger

[Goffee71]

I, for one, welcome the upcoming iPhone game; "Badger Grave Fury"

Re:Badger badger badger

[Moryath]

Also oblig: "Badgers? BADGERS?..." Someone please finish that one correctly...

Re:Badger badger badger

[Tr3vin]

I don't need no stinkin' badgers!

Re:Badger badger badger

[Killjoy_NL]

It could become a follow-up/mod/clone of Plants vs Zombies.
Graves vs Badgers :)

Re:Badger badger badger

[Azar]

We don't need no stinkin' badgers. (UHF)

Uh-oh

[Anonymous Coward]

They're getting used to the taste...

Shroooms

[skywatcher2501]

They're probably more interested in the mushrooms. SNAKEE SNAKEEE!!!

Am I strange?

[Chrisq]

Am I strange? I quite like the idea oif my remains being eaten by badgers. Its part of the circle of life. I have always thought that the Native American tree burials and Zoroastrian towers of silence are somehow very satisfying and symbolic of our return to nature.

Re:Am I strange?

[mpoulton]

Am I strange? I quite like the idea oif my remains being eaten by badgers. Its part of the circle of life. I have always thought that the Native American tree burials and Zoroastrian towers of silence are somehow very satisfying and symbolic of our return to nature.

Well, the badgers aren't so much eating your body as food. Really they're just pulling your remains out of the way of their excavation project. Rather than participating in the circle of life by providing nutrition to critters, your body is just annoying them by getting in the way of their homebuilding.

Re:Am I strange?

[sznupi]

Or sky burials (this one with photographs)

But members of many/most(?) cultures prefer to perceive themselves as not quite succumbing to the forces around them in such "trivial" way; as something above them.
Which, in the end, is part of few certainly still useful adaptations.

Re:Am I strange?

[CarpetShark]

When they start building their homes WITH human bones, we'll have more of a problem.

Re:Am I strange?

[ysth]

All the cool kids are having their remains et by Durrell's vontsiras.

Re:Am I strange?

[bored_engineer]

Ya know: "native American" is not exactly a monolithic group. Being a descendant of north American aboriginal people, I just decided that I'm allowed to be offended for the entire group called "native American" when the label is misused. Not everybody who was here before the arrival of Europeans practiced "tree burials," so perhaps you ought to be more specific. Sioux tree burials? Nez Perce tree burials? Apache tree burials? Even this list isn't all-inclusive of the methods used in north America (pre-invasion) to bury the dead. [smaller nit to pick: that should really be native American, no Native American, just as it should be western European, not Western European. It's not necessary to capitalize every adjective.]

I'm sorry if the above paragraph is offensive; I don't mean to be. I do, though, dislike general assumptions or statements about aboriginal American peoples. We weren't (and are not) a monolithic culture.

Re:Am I strange?

[L4t3r4lu5]

Oh I don't know. I'm useless as a skeleton in the ground. If my tibia can be used to brace some burrowing mammal's new dinning area, I'm all for it.

A little macabre, but then again so are a lot of the old religions. Maybe they're catching up.

Re:Am I strange?

[sznupi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Chapel_in_Czermna

Re:Am I strange?

[Chrisq]

I'm sorry if the above paragraph is offensive; I don't mean to be. I do, though, dislike general assumptions or statements about aboriginal American peoples. We weren't (and are not) a monolithic culture.

Not at all, I'm sorry I offended you. (incidentally Western European" is standard). I was referring to a practice I had heard of and admire but really know little about. I should have at least put "Some" native Americans.

I should have known better because I do realise how assumptions that you believe and follow a particular practice because it is practised somewhere in your wider culture can be can be upsetting if it is something that your particular group does not follow or recognise or even finds repulsive. As a Hindu I am quite used to people bringing up practices such as the Nepalese Bali sacrifice as if it is something that I must approve of because of my beliefs!

Re:Am I strange?

[demonlapin]

that should really be native American, no Native American

It's a pretty useful capitalization. I'm a native American, but I'm not a Native American. How would you prefer to make that distinction?

Re:Am I strange?

[Mal-2]

[smaller nit to pick: that should really be native American, no Native American, just as it should be western European, not Western European. It's not necessary to capitalize every adjective.]

Yes, it is. A Native American is someone (at least partially) descended from pre-Columbian residents of the continent. A native American (no capital N) is the vast majority of the country -- every person born in the United States.

Similarly with your Western European example -- a Western European is a person from Western Europe (a defined region). Calling someone a western European is redundant if you consider all of Europe to be part of "the west", and does not necessarily indicate that the person is from the region known as Western Europe.

Re:Am I strange?

[steelfood]

It's a very 21st century American viewpoint, reflective of the general dumbing-down of the population. Eastern Europeans, Western Europeans (hell, just Europeans), Native Americans, Muslim, Jew...

In reality, there are major differences between each individual culture, and large differences even between the related subcultures. But Americans don't really care. As long as they can put a nice, short, easy-to-remember label on everything, accuracy be damned, they're happy.

Badgers?

[pablo_max]

We don't need no stinking...ah forget it.

Re:Badgers?

[laejoh]

Eh, we? I want to install linux on one!

I'd prefer a more natural "funeral"

[fadir]

If I had the choice I'd say: feed my remains to wolves, sharks, hyenas - whatever fits the food chain - and no badger would cause any issues when building its new home.

Sadly that's not allowed in Germany and you have to get buried or burnt.

Re:I'd prefer a more natural "funeral"

[Anonymous Coward]

feed my remains to wolves, sharks, hyenas

How quaint. Did you actually mean the 4-legged/finned creatures that originally had these names, and may still be found in zoos and some remote locations on the planet?

Re:I'd prefer a more natural "funeral"

[sznupi]

There should be a loophole, in some (yeah...) circumstances, for sea burial.

Re:I'd prefer a more natural "funeral"

[sznupi]

There are wolves in Germany. Some reintroduced, and for example some packs that crossed from Poland (which has small group in western forests, even if most of their population is in the east - where, funnily enough, wolves from Slovakia, Belarus and Ukraine also cross; general direction seems to mimic the movement of people, or perhaps the other way around)

Re:I'd prefer a more natural "funeral"

[JTsyo]

You don't want wolves getting used to eating human meat.

Re:I'd prefer a more natural "funeral"

[PPH]

Now that's feeding time at the local zoo that I'd pay to see!

I for one..

[Arvisp]

I for one welcome our new badger overlords

Badgers badgers?

[Anonymous Coward]

MUSHROOM!

Soylent Green?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Instead of burying people, we should eat them. That should solve this problem. The local vicar might have some qualms about this, but, hey, show me where it says in the Bible, that "humans should not eat humans". Well, maybe the bit about, "Thou shall not covert your neighbor's wife's leg . . . lightly braised in an onion sauce."

And for the badgers? Tough luck, let them eat bark.

Re:Soylent Green?

[Ostracus]

Instead of burying people, we should eat them.

You'd think mad cow disease would discourage that sort of behavior.

Re:Soylent Green?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Thou shall not covert your neighbor's wife's leg . . . lightly braised in an onion sauce."

Damn, you must be good if you can braise your neighbour's wife's leg without her noticing. Unless it's an artificial limb which probably wouldn't be very tasty.

Some awfully black humour

[ultramarweeni]

Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger CORPSE CORPSE badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger OOH SPINE OOH IT'S A SPINE

OK, this wasn't funny at all. Mount your rotten tomatos.

Ready, "Sett", Go!

[hyades1]

Badger whatchoo diggin' there/With your bum up in the air?

Shaft!

Why you movin' body parts/Skulls and legs and even hearts?

Shaft!

You say that mine shaft's a badger house?

Shut yo' mouth!

Gonna dig it!

need help here....

[Anonymous Coward]

I've arranged to have myself freeze-dried and cast into a block of clear acrylic for display in perpetuity. I just can't decide how to have me posed. Any suggestions would be appreciated, as time's a-wastin'

What's the fuss?

[barry61]

When you're dead you're dead. I don't have a problem with my bones being dug out by hungry/idle badgers, and I quite like the idea of being taken home by kiddies to meet mum and dad - its good to think I would continue being of educational value, rather than just a bit more pollution.

Re:What's the fuss?

[Legion303]

The fuss is, religious people are crazy and things like this are somehow important to them.

On the other hand, I don't know why English Nature has a hard-on for the nearby field that might have had a house on it once. If the disturbed graves freak the religious nut out that much, let him relocate the damn badgers.

Re:What's the fuss?

[PPH]

Relocate the graves.

not this window?

[Anonymous Coward]

samzenpus - you posted to slashdot, but I think you wanted to post at /b/

Saunders

[gd2shoe]

Oh geez. And here I thought California was soft.
(It could be a lack of clarity in the write-up)

Jurors must decide if the lawyer "deliberately and consciously" used his shotgun, provoking the police to shoot. [Not whether his actions could reasonably be interpreted that way during a time of crisis?]

The jury, which is expected to go out on Wednesday, was asked to answer several questions ...

Was "sufficient weight" given to the fact that Mr Saunders, who was drunk at the time, was a vulnerable person?

Article includes a picture of Mr Saunders holding said shotgun while leaning out the window.
(No, I don't know more about the story. First I've heard about it.)

still wastefull

[r00t]

Cremation requires a huge amount of fuel.

I suggest making biodiesel, pet food, and fertilizer.

We could auction off the corpses for such purposes.
Imagine them stacked on pallets with plastic straps to
keep them from falling off and a plastic wrap to keep
the arms and legs in. Corpse bundles would be rated
according to estimated meat, fat, and leftover content.

Buyers would get a chance to request individual
auction for corpses that they find to be particularly
desirable. Among other things, this would allow
museums to acquire famous people for public display.

Next time, on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Grave-desecrating badgers? Next time, on Sick, Sad World!

Well...

[Syberz]

It looks like nobody told the animals to...

*puts on sunglasses* ...stop badgering the corpses.

YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

my one question is

[circletimessquare]

how did you indians get to north america from india before columbus?

(yes, i'm joking)

look, i understand why native americans are called indians: columbus got lost and thought he was in india. my problem is, it became readily apparent to everyone that he was NOT in india soon after, so why did the terminology continue for so long?

i mean look at this:

http://www.bia.gov/

wtf?!

why the bleep does the usa still have something called a bureau of INDIAN affairs? tradition? a tradition of stupidity? when the ambassador from new delhi arrives in washington dc and knocks on the wrong door, isn't anyone a little embarrassed at this silliness?

it's insanity. at least canada has gone and revamped all of their official government lingo and calls native americans "first nation". while that terminology sounds a little patronizing, its still infinitely superior to the completely wrong terminology "indian"

why the bleep does the usa have a bureau of INDIAN affairs? to be fair, the spanish speaking american countries still have the term "indio" too, it's not all the usa's continuing error. but i simply don't get it. the linguistic error should have been corrected somewhere around the year 1500, right?

indian americans, children of immigrants from the indian subcontinent, and visitors from india must find this all very amusing. native americans, probably not so much

Re:my one question is

[apoc.famine]

The other problem is when you have a massive influx of immigrants. Compared to a recent Mexican immigrant, I'm pretty "native". I was born here, as were my parents, my grand parents...

Native American is stupid terminology. How long does someone's family need to live in America to be "Native"? 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years?

When do you start to call it 'America'? Prior to Columbus, it sure wasn't.

As far as I'm concerned, in our modern times, "Native American" is as bad as "Indian".

Re:my one question is

[Ol Olsoc]

I think part of the problem is getting people to agree on a name.

"Indian" is wildly innacurate, but it is short and easy to say.

First Nation? - kind of awkward, and allows for no individual identity. Whereas I can say "I'm Hungarian", is "First Nationer" how someone in that group refers to themselves?

It's obvious that it is a problem, because of the myriad names in use, and they are all kind of awkward.

I think most of us would agree that some different identity name is in order, but to be successful, it needs to be one that people will take up readily. Difficult for sure, as bored engineer pointed out, it isn't a monolithic culture. Perhaps just the separate groups?

Re:my one question is

[petteyg359]

When do you start to call it 'America'? Prior to Columbus, it sure wasn't.

No, that's what you call Columbia. You want Amerigo Vespucci.

+Funny

[handy_vandal]

Made me chuckle. "Gonna dig it!"

Getting Badgers to behave?

[theBuddman]

Maybe the Reverend should threaten to excommunicate them?

i just have to...

[hitmark]

http://weebls-stuff.com/songs/badgers/

Another prime example of Eco-Naziism

[Anonymous Coward]

What a bunch of flaming idiots. Let's take a look at the facts: Unless the animal is on the brink of extinction, eradicating the offending animal in a relatively minute amount of land is inconsequential to the species as a whole. This is, indeed, another prime example of intelligent people gone awry; Eco-Naziism. Everyone who is blocking this should be immediately removed form society and locked up where they are not able to more damage with their low functioning brains.

Double Standard

[jasonditz]

Oh sure... humans digging up ancient badgers isn't news, but when its turned around suddenly its "oh the poor ancient humans."

Ancient?

[PPH]

Fine with me. Just don't let them mess with the mounds of freshly dug earth in my back yard.

Bozons?

[boojum.cat]

The field next to St Remigius Church is said to contain remains of the main residence of the Bozon family, Lords of the manor from 1304 to 1539.

The badgers are just trying to enforce quantum mechanics. The remains are Bozons, and belong all in one grave. If they were Fermions, they'd belong in separate ground states.

Internet meme

[gtvr]

I'm just thinking...
badger badger badger badger
Mushroom! Mushroom!!!

This just in...

[Anonymous Coward]

Tweezerman shaving brush company to open manufacturing facility across the street from St. Remigius Church!

Buy some Critter Ridder(tm)

[Tablizer]

Just use some Critter Ridder. Works for our neighbors' cats.

... I have an idea ...

[ninjagin]

Disclosure: I make and apply my shaving cream with badger-hair brushes.

How about the brits offer a bounty for trapped badgers, slaughter them, and sign up with a company like Simpson to make special edition UK-made badger shaving brushes to 1) offset the cost of the bounty and 2) fund badger ranching cooperatives.

Just let the badgers have them

[clarkcox3]

I'll never understand why we store our dead. It's such a waste of land and other resources. The people involved don't care, they're dead.