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Batteries Smaller Than a Grain of Salt

An anonymous reader writes "Lithium-ion batteries have become ubiquitous in today's consumer electronics — powering our laptops, phones, and iPods. Research funded by DARPA is pushing the limits of this technology and trying to create some of the tiniest batteries on Earth, the largest of which would be no bigger than a grain of sand. These tiny energy storage devices could one day be used to power the electronics and mechanical components of tiny micro- to nano-scale devices."

68 comments

  1. You know.... by Reilaos · · Score: 3, Funny

    As exciting as this is, I would take this news... ... with a grain of salt.

    1. Re:You know.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure you wouldn't prefer a grain of sand?

    2. Re:You know.... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Funny

      As exciting as this is, I would take this news... ... with a grain of salt.

      Ugh. If you ever said that to me in person I'd likely be charged with a salt and battery.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:You know.... by LoudMusic · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd probably just punch you both in the face.

      What?

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    4. Re:You know.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soooooo bad, but sooooo good.

    5. Re:You know.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      YEAHHH!!

    6. Re:You know.... by Canazza · · Score: 1

      I can see this article's going to be peppered with puns

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    7. Re:You know.... by thynk · · Score: 1

      Only by seasoned /. ers.

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    8. Re:You know.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I declare you smart person of the day.

    9. Re:You know.... by Surt · · Score: 1

      Great, now the joke posts will number more than all the grains of sand on a beach.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    10. Re:You know.... by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 1

      That's actually the name of my favorite Fish and Chips joint.

      --
      I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
    11. Re:You know.... by ricky-road-flats · · Score: 1

      As exciting as this is, I would take this news... ... with a grain of salt.

      Ugh. If you ever said that to me in person I'd likely be charged with a salt and battery.

      At which point you'd be put in a cell.
      Until you were discharged.

    12. Re:You know.... by curtix7 · · Score: 1

      I think this post wins the internet.

      "+6 Incredible" imo

  2. Nice summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your English teacher would be disappointed. Ripped the first paragraph off completely.

  3. Take TFA... by by+(1706743) · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ...with a grain of salt.

    There, I said it.

    1. Re:Take TFA... by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

      I blame my slow post speed on my recent upgrade to Chrome 7. Damn you /. ...

    2. Re:Take TFA... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Your post wouldn't have been dependent on browser speed if it wasn't such an obvious joke.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  4. iNanites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looking forward to read the first complaints over built-in Batteries in the new iNanites by Apple!

    BTW..
    Would be awsome for the fanbois. Sacred parts from guru Jobs in your bloodvessels and softest tissue. OVERGASM!

  5. non removable? by pablo_max · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple would still make it un-replaceable ;)

    Seriously though, would it not be even more interesting if something useful existed that could make use of these batteries?

    1. Re:non removable? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Apple would still make it un-replaceable ;)

      Sony would make it explosive, Microsoft would make them so they could only half-charge, and Google wouldn't sell it to you until you turned over all your past and future search history.

      Tee hee giggle snort.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:non removable? by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      would it not be even more interesting if something useful existed that could make use of these batteries?

      Light bulbs were pretty useless until there were generators. You can't have something useful that depends on something that doesn't exist.

  6. Why not use in batteries for gadgets? by rvr777 · · Score: 1

    Why not create a battery that is composed of lots of these tiny batteries that could make a smartphone run for weeks???

    1. Re:Why not use in batteries for gadgets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not read the fucking article and see that research is still in its early stages???

    2. Re:Why not use in batteries for gadgets? by GlyphedArchitect · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would that not just be a regular battery?

    3. Re:Why not use in batteries for gadgets? by rvr777 · · Score: 1

      I didn't say "use it NOW". But instead of planning it only for micro/nano devices, maybe it could be used for bigger devices as well, in the future.

    4. Re:Why not use in batteries for gadgets? by natehoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because the most efficient batteries are the ones that aren't a bunch of teeny batteries all wired together into a larger one. You have all that wasted space, weight, and resistance loss due to all of the connectors. If this scaled, it would be best used in larger batteries.

      And, from TFA, they are trying to match current densities, not improve on them. Take your 1Ah battery and replace it with 1,000 1mAh batteries that take up the same space, and now you have to connect 1,000 batteries together to come up with the same 1Ah battery. It's larger, heavier, more complex to build, and doesn't last any longer. It's about as logical as trying to get enough rechargeable button batteries to start your car. Sure, you could do it, but it's gonna be a lot bigger, heavier, expensive, and more prone to failure than your current battery.

      The sole purpose of something like this is to power very tiny devices where there's no room for a full-sized battery. It's not improving energy density or efficiency.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    5. Re:Why not use in batteries for gadgets? by Dakman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The batteries in TFA are more dense, and have a higher capacity for storage in smaller amounts.

  7. Sand or salt? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Funny

    The title says smaller than a grain of salt but the article says smaller than a grain of sand.

    And what kind of salt are you talking about? Table salt, sea salt, pickling salt? Same goes for sand. Waikiki sand, Provincetown sand, Bali sand?

    What would be nice is if there were some system of measurement that could be easily understood by the masses when talking about such sizes. For example, how many fractions of a Library of Congress would that be? Or maybe elephants. Elephants are always good. I once listened to a story on NPR about how much water is in the average cloud. The scientist (hydrologist?) involved used elephants to let the listener know how many elephants worth of water was being suspended above our heads when clouds are about.

    Personally I prefer metric buttloads. Use that term and everyone knows what you're talking about.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Sand or salt? by natehoy · · Score: 1

      What do you mean, African or European buttloads?

      How many kilobuttloads in a decihogshead?

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    2. Re:Sand or salt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      A /metric/ buttload is well defined and not dependent on geography. It's the load distributable on the average butt. We can measure this easily in spanks. It's my observation that 3 spanks equals one buttload.

    3. Re:Sand or salt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cubic cubits?

    4. Re:Sand or salt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mm3

    5. Re:Sand or salt? by Klinky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The proper measurement is actually metric asstons...

    6. Re:Sand or salt? by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except people in the US, since nobody can remember the conversion factor between Metric Buttloads (mB) and Imperial Fucktons.

    7. Re:Sand or salt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh i don't know, sometimes if you're talking to the "right" kind of person, no matter what you say can be countered with something like "well who gets to decide how big a metric?!"

    8. Re:Sand or salt? by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      What do you mean, African or European buttloads?

      Both of them use the metric system, as far as I'm aware. The US still uses the imperial system, which is why our butt-loads, ass-tons, and shit-loads are all somewhat larger.

      I'm not sure whether that's the cause of, or the result of us being so full of shit.

    9. Re:Sand or salt? by KORfan · · Score: 1

      Sand particles are sized between .0625 mm and 2 mm.

  8. You're Bugged by lowrydr310 · · Score: 1

    This could give a new definition to the term 'bugged.'

    Just imagine the fun you could have with a remotely operated or autonomous flying reconnaissance/surveillance vehicle the size of an insect!

    1. Re:You're Bugged by PiAndWhippedCream · · Score: 1

      We have those, they are called `insects'. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4808342.stm

  9. Great. by RykerrK · · Score: 0

    "Shit. I dropped the battery, hon."

    "Where did it fall?"

    "I...DON'T...KNOW!"

  10. Sony by DamageLabs · · Score: 1

    Just don't tell this to Sony.

    Who knows how many micro explosions would we have to endure every day.

  11. You could hook thousands together by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 1

    to make a zillion-volt battery that lasts a fraction of a second.

    1. Re:You could hook thousands together by natehoy · · Score: 1

      Can I hire you for User Interface design? You seem to have the type of thinking I'm looking for.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  12. This is impossible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All technological progress came from the Apollo missions of the Space Age. Defense and the toy industry have nothing to do with it. Space Nutters, unite against this reality! Back to our fantasies!

  13. Dammit. by JesseL · · Score: 1

    I'm already going blind trying to solder components smaller than 0402.

    --
    "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
  14. Oh wait, nevermind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The research is still in its early stages..."

    is that 10 years off or never?

  15. Maybe they should get the big ones right first by iONiUM · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't know about everyone else, but I've had no less than 4 devices in the last year have faulty Li-Ion batteries (they didn't hold a charge, or ran out much faster than they should have). Each time I had to exchange the device for a new one, at which point it worked as expected.

    Is this really how batteries are now? It's pathetic.

    1. Re:Maybe they should get the big ones right first by natehoy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A couple of months ago, my ThinkPad reported my battery as "unusable" after a year of service. Odd thing was, the battery didn't slowly lose service life. I was getting 3 hours at first, and it was down to about 2 hours 30 minutes, then one day I plugged it in to recharge and the ThinkPad flat out refused to charge the battery. It was under warranty, so Lenovo issued my company a new one free of charge and even overnighted it, but...

      I'm wondering if this is a sign that manufacturers are finally taking the scary explosive dangerousness that is highly unstable Li-Ion seriously, and programming their chargers to be overcautious about any and all perceived faults in the battery?

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    2. Re:Maybe they should get the big ones right first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd be more interested in knowing why every time the energy density of batteries increase, my consumer grade hardware simply gets thinner with a smaller battery to compensate and make sure my autonomy remains horribly short despite the technology being available to drastically improve things?
      I mean, I know that packing too much energy density around is dangerous but the cell configurations of the larger laptops could easily fit into a smaller one and provide the uncorded hours that those rated numbers boast if the designers weren't so bent on pursuing the look of the macbook air...

  16. Get me your biggest smallest battery! by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

    ...tiniest batteries on Earth, the largest of which would be no bigger than a grain of sand

    Call the Guiness people--these might be the biggest smallest batteries out there!

    - RG>

    --
    Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
  17. Great.... by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

    These tiny energy storage devices could one day be used to power the electronics and mechanical components of tiny micro- to nano-scale devices

    I can just imagine trying to change THOSE.

    1. Re:Great.... by Dakman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The connector is larger than the battery! Actually, considering the small size of these, let's pair it up with some wireless power action. Then we'd be in business.

  18. That's nice, but by Errtu76 · · Score: 1

    could you pass me the salt?

  19. Ok... by i_b_don · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They've got this already... they're called capacitors. Ok, they're not smaller than a grain of salt, but an 0201 package is really fricken small.

    Do you really need the greater power density you get from a chemical reaction rather than a capacitor at those sizes? A capacitor is so much easier to fabricate and charge that I can't imagine why you would go for a battery. I mean, in order to charge a battery, you'd need a chip that is MUCH larger than a grain of salt... although even for a cap you'd want a voltage regulator of some sort.

    Maybe I'm missing something here. What is this for? Nano-machines? Nano listening devices? Nano-trackers? Now that seems like the really interesting question....

    d

    --
    all language nazi's will burne in heil!
    1. Re:Ok... by Dancindan84 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe I'm missing something here. What is this for? Nano-machines? Nano listening devices? Nano-trackers? Now that seems like the really interesting question....

      That's the thing. These are the proverbial horse that's going to pull the cart. We're not sure what these are going to power, but the power source has to be available before those things can be developed. Sure you can design devices without a known power source, but you can't hook a prototype nano-medical bot up to a 12V with jumper cables for proof of concept purposes.

      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    2. Re:Ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not about density. Capacitors have a high self-discharge rate. Batteries are capable of storing energy for a much longer time.

  20. SALT GRAIN BATTERIES USED FOR SURVEILLANCE! by hoggoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Slashdot could have gotten more readers with this headline:

    SALT GRAIN BATTERIES USED FOR SURVEILLANCE!

    --
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  21. Shocking development! by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    But I don't get much of a charge out of it....

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  22. No no no, wrong conversion: by zooblethorpe · · Score: 1

    ... no, wait, never mind. I thought you said dickhead, in which case it would be the other way around.

    8-P

    Cheers,

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
  23. Sony, and micro explosions every day by zooblethorpe · · Score: 1

    ... even when it's not Burrito Day in the caf.

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
  24. Apple funded the development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  25. ....a long way to go before commercial by Dthief · · Score: 1

    Using atomic layer deposition -- a slow but precise process that allows layers of material only an atom thick to be sprayed on a surface -- she has successfully applied the solid electrolyte lithium aluminosilicate to these nanomaterials.

    Using ALD (a relatively costly and slow throughput technique)

    The research is still in its early stages: other components of these 3D microbatteries, such as the electrodes, have also been developed, but they have yet to be assembled and integrated to make a functioning battery.

    The first stages of this research have begun

    --
    www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
  26. So what! by Herkum01 · · Score: 3, Funny

    It is already a pain to change AAA batteries, imagine what it is going to be like trying to change one of these things. Good forbid you drop the thing, or put it in the wrong way. Think, how many sides does a grain of salt have! That is going to the number of ways that someone is going to install it wrong!

    Also, lets say you want to test it to see if it still has a charge. You put it on your tongue and it dissolves! Now your are stuck shelling out another 5 bucks to Energizer!

  27. Power density by ermintru · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So we current have current laptop batteries that store X power in Y space and when then go wrong they over heat or even burst into flames so the new batteries that store the X power in "grain of rice" space then the power density stored must be a minimum of a 1000 times higher what happens when one of those goes wrong?

    1. Re:Power density by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      FTFA:

      "We're trying to achieve the same power densities, the same energy densities as traditional lithium ion batteries, but we need to make the footprint much smaller," says Chang.

      If these batteries are using a chemical process, they're limited to chemical energy densities, which can't get a whole lot higher than what we see today.

      A white-hot iron rod will make your clothing burst into flames at a touch. A white-hot spark from your Dremel tool grinding that same rod will bounce right off your clothes, or your skin, without any effect or sensation. So, yeah, it would probably be sort of like that.

  28. useful? sensors! by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 1

    if something useful existed that could make use of these batteries?

    Like vernor vinge's localizers perhaps?

    http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1137

    http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1138

    --
    -
  29. Oh yeah... by GeekHang · · Score: 1

    Well if you put a thousand of these together I'd hope they could power a car or make my laptop battery last longer :P