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Where Are the Original PC Programmers Now?

Esther Schindler writes "In 1986, Susan Lammers did a series of interviews with 19 prominent programmers in a Microsoft Press book, Programmers at Work. These interviews give a unique view into the shared perceptions of accomplished programmers, the people who invented the tools you use today. In Programmers Who Defined The Technology Industry: Where Are They Now?, I tracked down the fate of these prominent developers — from Robert Carr (Framework) to Dan Bricklin (VisiCalc) to Toru Iwatani (author of Pac Man, I'm glad you asked). The article quotes the developers' 1986 views on programming, the business, and the future of computing. In two cases (Bricklin and Jonathan Sachs, author of Lotus 1-2-3) I spoke with them to learn if, and how, their views had changed. One meaty example: In 1986, Bill Gates said, on Microsoft's future: 'Even though there'll be more and more machines, our present thinking is that we won't have to increase the size of our development groups, because we'll simply be making programs that sell in larger quantities. We can get a very large amount of software revenue and still keep the company not dramatically larger than what we have today. That means we can know everybody and talk and share tools and maintain a high level of quality.' At the time, Microsoft had 160 programmers."

18 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. So.... by Mitchell314 · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... 160 programmers is all you'll ever need?

    --
    I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    1. Re:So.... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well those were back in the 8 bit days when the database couldn't hold more than 256 employees at once. They had some wiggle room, but not much.

    2. Re:So.... by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ... 160 programmers is all you'll ever need?

      I would be interested in a then/now of how many lawyers they have. That would really reflect the change in the IT industry.

    3. Re:So.... by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's a very active debate on wether or not Microsoft at the present time, or throughout its growth after they finished NT has had simply way too many developers, and if its corporate culture hasn't suffered because of the bureaucratic overhead involved in keeping something like 30,000 programmers merely busy, let alone productive, creative, entrepreneurial and all that other awesome stuff you generally need cutting edge development to be. This is the view taken by Mini-Microsoft and others.

      Compare also the opinion of John Sculley when he talked about the Mac unit when him and Jobs were still working together -- the whole division, hardware and software was only a hundred people or so, and only maybe a dozen were OS engineers, with another team of equivalent size writing the bundled applications. Apple presently has about 35,000 employees, but its been mentioned in sources that at least 2/3rds of them are in the retail side of the business, and for all of their OS and application development some people put their actual headcount in the mere hundreds.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  2. Back in the days by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everyone from my parents to job counselors kept telling me that learning programming and computers was a dead end because it was both a fad and a saturated market. IBM already had all the programmers they would ever need, who would hire more?

    1. Re:Back in the days by AnonymousClown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everyone from my parents to job counselors kept telling me that learning programming and computers was a dead end because it was both a fad and a saturated market. IBM already had all the programmers they would ever need, who would hire more?

      Then, you went into programming. Life was good ... but you start noticing that more and more programming jobs start going overseas. But you don't worry, they're just doing the maintenance and boiler plate code. You, after all, are doing the intense design and algorithms. Life is still good - your pay just keeps going up and up!

      Then one day, you're asked to train a young man from an Asian country about your code. You answer questions like, "What does an asterisk by a variable mean?", "What's this arrow mean?" and "What's a pointer?" and other questions that make you wonder if this person is even qualified to be doing what they hired him for.

      You think nothing of it because you have skills and you are always willing to learn and adjust - you'll be employable for ever!

      Time goes on and you're getting closer to 40. You start doing more documentation type of things because the coding is being done more and more with outsourcing companies.

      Then one day, they don't need you anymore and when you try to get more work, you hear nothing. Many, many, many resumes out - nothing. You get more education and training and still nothing. In the meantime, you see posts on places like Slashdot saying that they are having a hard time getting qualified people. Resisting the urge to flame the poster, you walk away from your computer mumbling, "Bullshit. Bullshit.Bullshit. Bullshit. ..."

      You then see that some "loser" you knew years ago went into management and is still employed and you think "Why oh why did I insist on staying technical!?!"

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    2. Re:Back in the days by VGR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't blame outsourcing, blame having 20 years experience and still being a code-monkey. Your job should be "business analyst" by now - yeah, cringe at the title, but the point is to apply that experience towards requirements analysis and planning, and let the kids waste time in actual IDEs.

      You are a major part of the problem. What I see in your words is that all developers are identical to entry-level code monkeys. In your mind, someone who spends decades becoming an excellent software engineer is worthless; the only worthwhile use of his time would have been learning to be a manager.

      This is the real reason managers are so willing to outsource: they think everyone who can make code compile is equivalent, whether their experience is one month or twenty years. In the context of that belief, it makes sense to send the labor overseas.

      I'll admit, though, that any engineer who's no better than he was twenty years ago has only himself to blame. (And I've met at least one who fits that description.)

      --
      The Internet is full. Go away.
    3. Re:Back in the days by Stiletto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's because in the world of commercial software,

      1. software doesn't have to be perfect
      2. software doesn't have to be ultra-efficient
      3. software doesn't have to be well-engineered
      4. software doesn't have to have a good design
      5. software doesn't have to compile clean

      Something just has to be delivered. On time and under budget. It doesn't often even matter what that "something" is or if it even works.

  3. None survived ... by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... past Dec 31, 1999.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  4. Re:High level of quality by somersault · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yep - he seems to be describing Open Source development, rather than Microsoft.

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    which is totally what she said
  5. Agile by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Most of these programmers had (and have) a programming methodology that today would be called Agile. They mostly created a prototype that worked, and kept adding functionality until it was ready to ship. They worked iteratively in small teams. And, as Bricklin's current thoughts indicate, these developers were always cognizant that at some point you have to quit adding to the software and send it out the door. I found myself wondering how many readers imagine that "Agile" is something new."

    Duke Nukem Forever, are you listening???
    The implementation of plaid shirts also seems to be a pre-requisite for effective programming.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  6. Good Old Day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was hardware guy in a computer store in the mid 70's. Bill Gate was a guest speaker at 1 of the computer club meetings we hosted, It was in the early days of the Apple II and mostly we sold S-100 systems (Altair, Cromemco, Processor Technology...)
    Bill gates whined aboout making 3 dollars and hour on Altair Basic because everybody just passed around the paper tape. He tried to convince us that he thought that software should be bundled with the hardware. We booed him off the stage.

    I remember people coming in and asking to by a Visicalc computer, We always got a chuckle out of it when we had to explain they wanted an Apple .

    Mostly what we were interested in was getting a program by Ward Christensen called CBBS working. It ran in an Altair with a Cromemco ZPU board using an Intertec Superbrain terminal with a couple Wangco 8 inch floppys and 48 K of Thinker Toys memory. This 1 Toy bar far had more effect on the world than anything else I remember. Ward was in Chicago and We had a guy named Kieth Peterson with us

    You would have to use a program Ward made called Xmodem with a modem and dial up the store.

    Now get off my lawn!

    1. Re:Good Old Day? by abigor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why the heck don't people like you post more often? I love hearing this stuff.

  7. Re:Von Neumann Archetecture by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In defense of TFA, it is called "Programmers who Defined the Technology Industry", following up on the book "Programmers at Work" which was about Microsoft programmers.

    Listing who the real computer pioneers were is a bit like replying to a post about singers by stating that Robert Moog and J.S. Bach were music pioneers.

  8. Microsoft press had some good books by fermion · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the books that the MS people published, it is clear that they theoretically knew how to write code. That they could get functional operating systems and applications programs out the door indicated that they could manage large projects.

    I remember reading books like Solid Code and understanding how to put together a program, not just write functions that would compile. MS Press filled the time between the old time books like Composite Structured Design and the Mythical Man Month and more contemporary books like the Pragmatic Programmer. What I saw, however, was that MS was not moving forward with modern techniques and design patterns. At least from the outside, it appeared that they were stuck in the 80's.

    Nevertheless, one cold do worse than reading these books as a basis in programming, not just coding.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  9. Peter Norton? by BetaRelease · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where is Peter Norton? His Norton Utilities was the greatest set of utilities then -- especially Unerase!

  10. Re:640K ought to be enough for anybody by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Honestly, why do all of you perpetuate this bullshit that Bill actually designed or wrote anything?"

    Look it up.

    Well, take this with a grain of salt, but this would indicate he's done some programming. He's believed to have written a BASIC interpreter

    I'm pretty sure he isn't credited with actually writing DOS. He didn't invent as much as he marketed. He's not some uber coder who actually created a lot of things.

    He even said as much in 1986:

    INTERVIEWER: You obviously have a lot of responsibilities as chief executive officer of Microsoft. Do you still program?

    GATES: No, I don’t. I still help design algorithms and basic approaches, and sometimes I look at code. But since I worked on the IBM PC BASIC and the Model 100, I haven’t had a chance to actually create a program myself.

    Bill Gates is a business man with a grounding in tech, and has been around while most of it was created so has a lot of perspective. But, I think his actual "hands on" coding is more limited than people think.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  11. Re:Von Neumann Archetecture by plcurechax · · Score: 3, Informative

    following up on the book "Programmers at Work" which was about Microsoft programmers.

    No, many of them never worked for Microsoft. The book was published by Microsoft Press as I remember.

    Though most if not all were microcomputer (i.e. Personal Computer aka PC) programmers. That's were the revolution was happening. Mini and mainframes had been around for a while by that time in computing's history.

    • Gary Kildall
    • Andy Hertzfeld
    • Jef Raskin
    • Toru Iwatani
    • C. Wayne Ratliff
    • Dan Bricklin
    • Scott Kim
    • ...

    All of these programmers never worked at Microsoft, and neither did I.