Slashdot Mirror
BSG Prequel Series Caprica Canceled
Kethinov writes "The sci-fi TV series Caprica, a prequel spinoff from Battlestar Galactica, was just canceled by the Syfy channel. In response to the cancellation and the recent theme of many similar good sci-fi shows getting canceled over the last few years, I've written an editorial arguing that Caprica's cancellation reflects the decreasing sustainability of the cable TV business model. A better, more modern business model could have saved Caprica from cancellation. If this model is adopted in the future, it could save many other similar niche genre shows from the same fate down the road." Another perspective here might be that a boring, ponderous show got yoinked because nobody watched it. Just sayin'.
It could also have to do with HUGE break between the first half of the season and the second... Just sayin'
"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat."
Seriously, most of the stuff the show is crap-and-drivel. Caprica seemed better than average there, which is probably why they canceled it, they only want to show garbage. If they get low enough ratings on their "science fiction", then they can switch it to the Wrestling Channel.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
But like the summary says, it turned in to a boring show where they tried character development, but it just fell on its face. It was just about at the level of a plain drama with a little peppering of sci-fi.
Now SyFy shows wrestling on Friday nights. I won't say that's better than Caprica, but it must be paying the bills...
Instead of relaxing like I've done for the last 10+ years - watching SciFi channel on Friday nights (where did GvsE, Lexx, Brimstone, Dresden Files, Farscape, etc go?), I'm now doing other things with my Fridays... I'm not going to watch wrestling. Talk about fiction!
It didn't help that the show is slow and plodding, and not one of the characters is likable. Where's the lovable characters that just make bad decisions. Instead everyone is lying to everyone else, the story seems to be stuck in the mud and we know that in the end it doesn't matter, as Caprica gets nuked anyway!
Subby's a moron. His blog starts out: "Suppose for a moment that I had been CEO of NBC Universal at the time Caprica was picked up in 2008. If I had been CEO at that time, then Caprica would not have been canceled during its first season two years later because it would have been one of the many thriving, profitable properties owned by NBC Universal."
You personally would have managed NBC better than NBC itself? According to your blog, you're a web programmer at Paypal. Maybe you need to check that ego and realize that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Why does Slashdot link to this crap?
My opinion is that spin-off storylines and crappy effects can hurt viewership more than the cable business model. Reality shows and sequel/prequels are no substitute for a good, original story with good writers and actors. (and certainly not wrestling on a sci-fi? channel)
Look at 'The Sopranos' 'Mad Men' or 'Battlestar Galactica' if you need proof that cable shows can be huge if done right.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
In case you have not noticed, it seems that the syfy channel is showing anything but science fiction and made the switch quite some time ago. I really believe that the producers have no idea what scinece fiction really is or who the classic scifi authors might be.
Retired dinosaur, simple user, volunteer, guinea pig
Same here. The writers lost my respect and interest with their handling of the latter portion of BSG and in particular the finale. As a result I never cared to watch Caprica and actively ignored it. If any sizable portion of the viewership felt the same way, that would account quite well for the lack of viewership.
Try Idiocracy...
Oh wait, that's a documentary...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Failed Sustainability of the Cable Model?
How about the failed sustainability of a bad spin-off of a great series?
A lack of cocaine and an ability to determine which shoe goes on which foot in the morning may be the edge required to be a better manager than the CEO of NBC. The "rock star" MBA CEO type may be entertaining but they are very rarely effective.
Caprica wasn't bad. Wasn't the best thing on TV, but wasn't bad. But, much like BSG, SyFY didn't know what to do with it and tried to milk it for all it was worth and killed it in the process.
Stupid, stupid stunts like calling NINE SHOWS a "season" and postponing new shows for almost a YEAR. Who can follow a complicated story arc after that?
And horrible, horrible publicity. In 1978, many people enjoyed the Cylon ride at Universal Studios. Although there were a few billboards and a window painting in Hollywood during BSG 2003's last season, and the Vanity Fair spread was a nice touch, often it seemed that BSG was the bastard child of Universal. Even though BSG was owned by Universal, there was NO promotion of BSG when I went to Universal Studios during season 4! A golden opportunity to promote a show in a venue that people from all over the country visit, and there was NOTHING for BSG except in a privately owned comic store on the Citywalk. Lousy, lousy promotion. Yet disposable crap like the "Mutant Shark of the Week" or whatever is everywhere.
It is obvious that SyFy has no clue whatsoever what to do when it somehow stumbles on decent programming. Even as the critics were raving about BSG being "the best thing on TV" Universal/SciFi did not know how to pitch it, nor did they seem to want to try.
Wish they would stop repeating these mistakes
I bet it happens with SGU too.
SG-1 and SGA would both still be watchable shows with likable and funny characters, but they cancel those to put up a boring, slow, drama instead.
On that note, one of the few other shows I DVR, Storm Chasers, has turned into a drama as well. I'm sick of watching the chasers bitch about the other chasers and have little interviews like a reality show. Just show the tornadoes and talk about the cool science and vehicles!
Morphing Software
Yes, it was flawed. I liked it in spite of that, perhaps even for some of those flaws. Yes, it could frustrating, yes, much of the characters were not likeable or identifyable (no "everyman" character). But it was trying to do something, really, it was. The acting and production values were top-notch, and they really did delve into all manner of interesting topics for debate, from morality to philosophy to the nature of humanity. And we just got one payoff this week, a nice action sequence with a cylon followed by an iconic phrase ("by your command") at the end. I guess we can re-edit that scene to be syfy headquarters. I'll miss caprica. It was the last reason I had to tune into the pathetic shell that occupies what was once the Sci-fi channel.
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
My girlfriend likes Caprica, so I've been passively watching it (and more actively fucking around on my computer). It doesn't have anything resembling a story line I can get into, and there are some rather annoying bits, like modern props and somewhat contemporary (modern to 100 years ago) styling. It wasn't quite so prevalent in BSG, except for that who Gitmo-esque subplot.
I told my girlfriend, the biggest reason I can't get into it is because I already know how it ends. It's a timeless classic. People build robots. Robots get big, mean and eventually out of control. They fight with the humans. The humans fight back. There's years of pouting where they live on different planets, and then the robots get their revenge. Big explosions, almost everyone dies. Subplots. Subplots. Subplots. The survivors go run off and find another planet, and start over yet again.
Sorry if I wrapped up Caprica and BSG for any of you to easily.
The fucked up the ending of BSG, so they have no room to continue it, so they had to do a prequel. Well, unless you consider millions of years of "they lived happily ever after" an adequate time to pick up a sequel. Obviously, the story had a finite beginning and end. It wasn't necessary to try to drag it on.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
How about they cancel the frakking wrestling, or at least move it to another channel. Wrestling is not SciFi by any definition. Theres a lot of other crap on there that is arguably not SciFi either.
It's much harder to make it work, in terms of continuity, without an overall plan. Try watching all of Babylon 5, and there are things foreshadowed in the first season that didn't get explained until years later. Apparently even the episode writers didn't always know what they meant - JMS had an overall plan for the series and would make the writers add little parts of it to each episode.
That said, you also have to be adaptable. You can also see some things foreshadowed early on in B5 that never happen, typically because the relevant actor quit the show, but sometimes because the network messed them around and they had to delete bits from the overall arc to fit the major story in. With the final five in BSG, even if they had had an overall plan, they'd probably want to revise it based on feedback. If all of the fans are obsessed with the final five, and the series ends without mentioning them other than to say 'yup, they were rubbish, we boxed them, it's a bit embarrassing' then fans would have been disappointed.
Unfortunately, BSG managed to get itself into a state around season 4 where any ending would be unsatisfactory. An overall plan can help avoid that kind of situation, but only if it's very carefully thought out.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Actually, Caprica is about humans trying to achieve immortality by creating AI copies of themselves/others. So it's not robots becoming sentient but AIs who do not want to be confined to a virtual world.
At least that's where I think the story is heading. Since the pace is rather slow, I doubt we'll even see any non-centurion robots before the final episode.
Sooner or later you will have to let go.
He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!
"I'm a Genius!"*
*Not an actual Genius
I find tech commentators very funny at times. There are quite a few who are writing good, incisive stories, but at the same time there are a large number who have either disconnected from reality, or just aren't giving credit where it is due. I think it's because some people get a sense of superiority by declaring that "X is a dinosaur business model, and I'm smart enough to see it!" The writer of the original article falls under one of the latter categories.
Here's the thing - most of the suggestions he made were implemented in some at least a year ago. From the article:
"All of NBC Universal's properties should immediately begin offering full episodes in high definition on the web. These episodes should be available online at the same time they air on cable TV. Delaying the posting of these episodes to the website will only drive people to piracy."
This one has been happened for at least two years, by my count. It may not be high-definition, but most shows ARE put on the web the day after they air. Geographical boundaries are enforced, but that probably has more to do with broadcast rights than business models (if you've given your broadcast rights in Britain to the BBC, for example, you're not going to undercut them online).
"Episodes offered via this medium should display no interstitial advertising. Ads should only appear just prior to and just after an episode plays. Interstitial advertising will only drive people to piracy, which shows no interstitial ads."
Already the way it's done.
"No DRM should be used to protect against consumer copying or saving of the episodes from the website to their computers. This will only drive people to piracy."
Can't speak to the DRM side (I've never tried to copy a show, I've only just watched it). But I know that the BBC allows downloads of shows, and it wouldn't surprise me if other stations did too.
"The online episodes should be the same high quality aired on cable TV. Reduced quality will only drive people to piracy. Bandwidth costs can be reduced by leveraging bit torrent."
As far as I know most are offered in at least standard definition. I know that the BBC, for example, also offers downloads in HD, and it wouldn't surprise me if others do too.
"A subscription service should be offered which completely eliminates all advertising for the subscriber and offers other benefits, such as discounted merchandise and other additional services above and beyond the basic TV content without ads."
Well, this might help, and to be fair, as far as I know the television stations don't offer this. And, it's not a bad idea. So, point to the author on this one. But, at the same time, it should be pointed out that what the consumer is interested in is the show, and they're already getting that for free - so there wouldn't be much incentive to use this service in the first place.
"Nothing behind the subscription paywall should be something that can be pirated. Services and physical merchandise cannot be pirated."
Okay - this one needs a reality check. It's a television network - what services precisely is it going to offer? Anything audio-visual in nature can be pirated. And, as far as physical merchandise goes, there is an entire market out there of cheap knock-offs - which is a form of piracy.
"But it's not just NBC Universal. It seems like every major TV company is playing with fire by ignoring the internet."
Um...right. Which is why most networks have websites on which you can watch their programming, as well as launching on-demand services.
So, to sum up - the author of this article is ignoring what television networks are actually doing so that he can prop up a straw man and declare them to be following a dinosaur business model. If he was writing back in 2006, he might have had a point. Unfortunately, he's writing in 2010, and the person who is behind the times in this case is him.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
That's why most TV is crap - the writers meander randomly, and then come-up with some half-cocked ending (or else bore the audience to tears with filler episodes in order to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the show). They'd all be better off to plot the overall story in advance, so they can see their destination and work towards it.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
It was almost great, but missed.
Bad camera usage, needing to rely on device and trick to imply emotion instead of getting some of the actors to actually seem emotional themselves, and the over use of the word frak.
The last one was the reason I stopped watching it. It's bad enough when someone delivers a cuss word, any word really, that seems to be i the dialog just to be in the dialog. Add to that a nonsense word and it's just jarring.
And there use of shaky cam at the wrong times was also stupid.
The rest of the show was awesome. The world was interesting, the technology was believable. I think if they stopped forcing the word frak, and had better camera use, the show would have been unstoppable.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
What is wrong with drama being the meat of a SciFi TV show? I always thought that the best SciFi is that where the SciFi itself serves only as a backdrop, a support for the story and the characters, a background which would not otherwise be possible in contemporary or historical settings. I dislike shows that focus on the "cool factor" of SciFi. Most often than not they lack depth. SciFi is about making the spectator think.
I remember a scene in "War of the Worlds" which has always stuck with me. It's the one where the hero is hiding in a demolished house while the Martians are combing the area in their great Machines. He likens the feeling to the one a rabbit must get waking up in its burrow one day to find the forrest being utterly wiped out by a construction site. All this destruction, these huge things you cannot understand and all you can do is to hide, tremble and hope they won't turn over a root or a piece of rock and find you.
That scene would have not been possible without SciFi. There's nothing in human history that can replicate the horrible feeling of a human being literally looked down upon like vermin (figuratively, yes; literally, no). It's a very novel and unsettling feeling. The rabbit analogy was great, it was necessary, but it was not enough by itself. And the entire scene (as well as the book) is ultimately about human drama, not about the aliens from outer space.
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
They lost mine on the pilot of BSG. Everything that was wrong with modern television was right there, encapsulated.
I think it might have been an OK series if they'd had talented writers and a tenth the budget.
In theory the idea behind Caprica was the corporate politics and foreign policy machinations behind the creation (and then abuse) of cybernetic life in the form of the Cylons, but there was effectively the first working Cylon by the end of the pilot, and she was created by a semi-supernatural deus ex machina. Also she just happened to be a copy of the personality of a religious fanatic with a pathological and completely unmotivated hatred of her parents. So before the series has even begun we already have the Cylons, and the mystery of why they turned out they way they did is just because they're spoiled, angry, borderline psychotic teenagers. (Actually, the virtual reality fantasy of a spoiled, angry, borderline psychotic teenager) Monotheism wasn't a great competing philosophical system, it was just a creepy cult with no point to it other than a pretext for adding lots of pretty teenage girls to the story.
There was one nice touch with the early 20th century clothing. There was something creepy about seeing fashion your brain is telling you is old juxtaposed with futuristic technology. I found that more convincingly alien than any costume or prosthetic.
While I enjoyed B5--and I expect to be crucified by the Slashdot crowd for saying this--the degree to which the show was planned out was very evident and it had a negative effect on my experience with the series. Too often, it felt like chess pieces being moved around a board. There was a startling lack of characterization. Londo and G'Kar stood out the most, performance-wise. Everyone else was just kind of "there." I had serious problems with Sheridan's portrayal and story arc, too. There were implications that left a very bad taste in my mouth. Getting into specifics: when Garibaldi opposed Sheridan's war against Clark's EarthGov, he was the lone "voice in the wilderness" calling into question the great Sheridan's actions. And then it turned out he'd been brainwashed by Bester. In other words, not a single credible person stood against Sheridan. We were never given anyone who had a rational, reasonable motive for opposing Sheridan's civil war. And so much of the series was like that, where we only got one side of the story and it was very black-and-white as to who was good and who was evil. The show told you who to root for and there was rarely any ambiguity.
As a result, the show felt overly structured and inorganic. I never got the feeling the show was evolving.
JMS did an excellent job planning the show--a daunting task, and it's also remarkable he wrote almost every episode. I don't mean to diminish that achievement. But I think the final product reveals the shortcomings in placing structure over flexibility, fencing yourself in as opposed to leaving yourself wiggle room. Yeah, he had his "escape hatches" but they were very obvious and some of them were extremely clumsy (such as the way Talia Winters was disposed of.)
The vast majority of TV shows never make it to a second season, so by that token it makes sense that you wouldn't have the entire series planned out from day one. Even if you get more than one season, you're not likely to know how many seasons or episodes you will get in total. Instead, it seems best to give yourself lots of wiggle room. Have a basic outline of how you'd like the show to progress, mark various "stopping points" that could serve as a finale in the event of cancellation, but other than that it's unlikely to be fruitful to have some behemoth Master Plan.
That said, BSG shows significant issues with their more ad hoc approach. They had a little bit of a plan but they never seemed to think far enough ahead. Various storylines were introduced then dropped (or left on the cutting room floor) or conspicuously jammed into an episode where they didn't belong because all the setup material had been lost in editing. Beyond the show's approach to writing, the editing process appears to have been very haphazard. Even so, at least BSG had a defined ending point (finding Earth) and they had goals to work toward. I thought the fourth season was much stronger than the third, probably because they had a finale deadline and knew they had only so many hours to tell the remaining story. Season three was the weakest by a good margin, in my opinion, dominated by standalone episodes that did little to advance the overall story or expand the series' canvas.
Caprica, while sometimes a good show (especially "There Is Another Sky"), suffered all the worst excesses of BSG's writing process: slow, meandering storylines that go nowhere; fuzzy characterization; unfocused narrative; inconsistent plot turns. In fact, it played very much like a soap opera, only it took itself very seriously. There is a fine line between powerful drama and soap and Caprica spent way too much time on the wrong side of it. I enjoyed the show for what it was and I'll be sorry to see it go, but this was not at all unexpected.
Check out my world simulator thingy.
I like SGU's first 5 or so episodes.
Why?
Because they are constantly on the verge of death, such as running out of air or water or shields.
But then after that, they stabilized every on board and ran out of ideas. So the writers turned towards political crap with the Lucian Alliance, and it has been just as boring as the SG1 episodes about politics. Ick. I'd rather be watching Seasons 6 and 7 of Atlantis, because I liked the people better and the premise.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
What was wrong with the finale?
How about the "we are the last of our race and fighting for survival", then dropping everyone on a planet and abandoning all their technology. They didn't even strip the fleet for shelter and hunting/farming implements. Or... we have shuttles that can land anywhere on the planet, but we're going to drop you in a field and make you walk for miles to a place suitable restart civilization?
The show was canceled and the writers were done. They just half-assed the finale to wrap things up.
Another day, another update to a Google android app.
But endings are impossible. You try to tie up every loose end, but you never can.
And yet, despite all the issues around season 4/5 production, JMS still managed to tie up almost every loose end in Babylon 5 (even if you didn't realise it, because he tied some of them up several series earlier).
Most of the Star Trek series finished with some sort of decent final story arc.
Both SG1 and SGA finished quite neatly (and wrapped up the loose ends of the main story arc with an actually decent TV movie in the former case).
It can be done. Not all TV shows have to be BSG (or Lost, or FlashForward, or...), meandering aimlessly through forever in the hope that the writers will come up with something eventually.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.