BSG Prequel Series Caprica Canceled

It could also... by NoxNoctis · 2010-10-28 02:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

It could also have to do with HUGE break between the first half of the season and the second... Just sayin'

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"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat."

Re:It could also... by delinear · 2010-10-28 02:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm tired enough of shows getting cancelled that, these days, I won't even bother watching a show until it has four or five seasons under its belt. That's also about the right number to figure out if there is a real story that's going somewhere or it's just meandering unil cancellation day.
Re:It could also... by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 02:56 · Score: 5, Interesting

The problem is that Caprica didn't have just a mid-season hiatus... it went almost a full year between season 1 and 1.5. Few shows can survive that.
Also the other poster is correct: The story simply wasn't that good. Other than the cute girl(s), I could find little reason to continue watching. I suspect "Haven" is also destined for the chopping block, for the same reason.

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:It could also... by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 02:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

It doesn't help that Syfy is putting these shows on the worst night (Tuesday). They are trying to compete again "real" shows that people actually want to watch like Glee, CSI, and so on.
Syfy should have kept the original Sci-Fi Friday they've had the last decade. They had built a recognizable brand, and people were willing to turn to Syfy on Friday because none of the other networks were showing anything worthwhile.

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:It could also... by prgrmr · 2010-10-28 03:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

NBC will probably sell it off at a huge loss in a year or two.

We can certainly hope so. And if the new owners turn it into nothing more than a home for reruns of all of the Star Treks, Space 1999, UFO. Firefly, Lexx, Andromeda, FarScape, Bablyon 5, etc., that would be awesome, and probably pay off better than the current mess that's happening now. But if they could keep Eureka and Warehouse 13, that would be even better.
Re:It could also... by Surt · 2010-10-28 03:37 · Score: 2, Funny

Exactly, it was clearly THE thing to do for geeky nerds who couldn't get a date.

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"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Re:It could also... by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 03:50 · Score: 3, Insightful

Reruns? Why?
Running old episodes of U-FO, Dark Shadows, Voyagers, and so on worked great in the early 90s, but not now. It's cheaper to just buy the DVDs, rather than pay to access the expensive Sci-Fi Channel.

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:It could also... by Teancum · 2010-10-28 04:55 · Score: 3, Informative

What hurt Caprica even more (having just seen some of the season 1.5 episodes) is that information needed to watch an episode is found in earlier episodes of the season. In other words, it is very much a serial where the whole season tells the story and not just one part. The problem with a series of that nature is that it sort of pushes away new viewers who don't have access to the first episode.
I thought the series was extremely well done, but it was very dark and in some ways very disturbing as well. Much of the first half-season dealt with virtual reality and MMORPGs in a way that I have never seen dealt with by a major media outlet before. The show's producers "get" what it is like to play in an MMORPG and if you want to see what one might be like in a couple hundred years, Caprica has a very good example of one that Zoe Greystone plays in. Then again, it also captures the MMORPG experience by having a bunch of kids playing around in a virtual environment where the parents don't know what the heck their kids are up to other than "playing with computers".
The second half-season deals more with the "STO", which is an Al-Queida-like terrorist organization which foreshadows the rise of the Cylons and goes into depth of how that organization is put together. Again, this is something that is certainly part of the backstory of Battlestar Galactica and being brought forward, but isn't easy for people to watch or the complex interplay between religions, where most normal "colonists" are polytheistic and the terrorist organization uses a monotheistic approach that echos Islam but isn't quite that either. Many people don't want to have religion crammed down their throats in this fashion, especially when it might be pointing out that their own religion could be just as corrupted.

This has all happened before. by zerosomething · 2010-10-28 02:06 · Score: 4, Funny

Wish they would stop repeating these mistakes

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It all starts at 0

Re:This has all happened before. by Richard_at_work · 2010-10-28 02:10 · Score: 5, Interesting

I watched BSG religiously (and bitched like fuck after the final episode) but I never watched Caprica - I didn't want to have to watch another series just to have some small parts of the back story filled in, and Caprica didn't interest me as an independent series either.

Plus the BSG writers pretty much blew it for me when they discussed in a podcast during season 2 or 3 that they had no idea that the 'final five' thing was going to become what it did, they just realised that viewers had latched on to it as a mystery and then decided to run with it - the final five were all chosen much later on as well, just before they were revealed, so again the concept that the writers 'had a plan' was blown for me early on.
Re:This has all happened before. by c0d3g33k · 2010-10-28 02:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

Same here. The writers lost my respect and interest with their handling of the latter portion of BSG and in particular the finale. As a result I never cared to watch Caprica and actively ignored it. If any sizable portion of the viewership felt the same way, that would account quite well for the lack of viewership.
Re:This has all happened before. by Ark42 · 2010-10-28 02:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

Wish they would stop repeating these mistakes
I bet it happens with SGU too.
SG-1 and SGA would both still be watchable shows with likable and funny characters, but they cancel those to put up a boring, slow, drama instead.
On that note, one of the few other shows I DVR, Storm Chasers, has turned into a drama as well. I'm sick of watching the chasers bitch about the other chasers and have little interviews like a reality show. Just show the tornadoes and talk about the cool science and vehicles!

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Morphing Software
Re:This has all happened before. by JWSmythe · 2010-10-28 02:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

My girlfriend likes Caprica, so I've been passively watching it (and more actively fucking around on my computer). It doesn't have anything resembling a story line I can get into, and there are some rather annoying bits, like modern props and somewhat contemporary (modern to 100 years ago) styling. It wasn't quite so prevalent in BSG, except for that who Gitmo-esque subplot.
I told my girlfriend, the biggest reason I can't get into it is because I already know how it ends. It's a timeless classic. People build robots. Robots get big, mean and eventually out of control. They fight with the humans. The humans fight back. There's years of pouting where they live on different planets, and then the robots get their revenge. Big explosions, almost everyone dies. Subplots. Subplots. Subplots. The survivors go run off and find another planet, and start over yet again.
Sorry if I wrapped up Caprica and BSG for any of you to easily.
The fucked up the ending of BSG, so they have no room to continue it, so they had to do a prequel. Well, unless you consider millions of years of "they lived happily ever after" an adequate time to pick up a sequel. Obviously, the story had a finite beginning and end. It wasn't necessary to try to drag it on.

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Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Re:This has all happened before. by TheRaven64 · 2010-10-28 03:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's much harder to make it work, in terms of continuity, without an overall plan. Try watching all of Babylon 5, and there are things foreshadowed in the first season that didn't get explained until years later. Apparently even the episode writers didn't always know what they meant - JMS had an overall plan for the series and would make the writers add little parts of it to each episode.
That said, you also have to be adaptable. You can also see some things foreshadowed early on in B5 that never happen, typically because the relevant actor quit the show, but sometimes because the network messed them around and they had to delete bits from the overall arc to fit the major story in. With the final five in BSG, even if they had had an overall plan, they'd probably want to revise it based on feedback. If all of the fans are obsessed with the final five, and the series ends without mentioning them other than to say 'yup, they were rubbish, we boxed them, it's a bit embarrassing' then fans would have been disappointed.
Unfortunately, BSG managed to get itself into a state around season 4 where any ending would be unsatisfactory. An overall plan can help avoid that kind of situation, but only if it's very carefully thought out.

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I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:This has all happened before. by MtHuurne · 2010-10-28 03:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

Actually, Caprica is about humans trying to achieve immortality by creating AI copies of themselves/others. So it's not robots becoming sentient but AIs who do not want to be confined to a virtual world.
At least that's where I think the story is heading. Since the pace is rather slow, I doubt we'll even see any non-centurion robots before the final episode.
Re:This has all happened before. by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 03:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

That's why most TV is crap - the writers meander randomly, and then come-up with some half-cocked ending (or else bore the audience to tears with filler episodes in order to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the show). They'd all be better off to plot the overall story in advance, so they can see their destination and work towards it.

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:This has all happened before. by Altus · 2010-10-28 03:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ive been enjoying SGU myself. I find the arc much more engaging than the more episodic content. Episodes like the one I watched last night I find kind of disappointing because they don't advance the arc that much (though, in the end most episodes have something relevant happen in them).
SG1 was pretty much dead. It did pretty well once the brought on the cast from Farscape but the writing was on the wall, it had a great run but it was time. I do think they canceled SGA a little early but its not like it didn't have a pretty good run itself.

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"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
Re:This has all happened before. by Maxo-Texas · 2010-10-28 03:18 · Score: 2, Funny

I felt even worse about B5-- another series "with a plan". it's too bad it was canceled and they never made season 5, or even the last episode of season 4. It was a great series. I would have hate to have had it have a terribly cheesy ending.
Some things, like the Matrix And Star Wars are better just to stop while you are ahead and not go on to ruin the concept with further movies. I've always thought the brothers were wise to stop the Matrix at the first episode and even tho I didn't like much of Return of the Jedi, I'm glad that Lucas stopped there rather than go on to make some cheesy effects laden movies with terrible acting and direction, undercut the Force, and generally ruin the entire series.
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Anyway... on Caprica. Didn't like it. The story was *done*. And I liked the ending. I liked BSG. I didn't like Caprica. It was a show for young people. I'm nearing 50. It had nothing that appealed to me. It was like a completely different random show that they tacked on the BSG franchies to.
Now-- Stargate Universe- I'm liking so far. There are some dumb things (like why they are not training the doctor during some of her at home time- but at least they addressed that by bringing in specialists). seems like they should be working on a forge and a machine shop too. And at some points the guns have got to start breaking and running out of ammunition. They should find/use some energy weapons.

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She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Re:This has all happened before. by wonkavader · 2010-10-28 03:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

They lost mine on the pilot of BSG. Everything that was wrong with modern television was right there, encapsulated.
I think it might have been an OK series if they'd had talented writers and a tenth the budget.
Re:This has all happened before. by roystgnr · 2010-10-28 04:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

You're conflating two very different ways to screw up a series.
A: If you extend it so far that you have to pad it out with boring subplots and unlikeable characters, then that's not so bad - just fast forward through the tedious stuff and enjoy the exceptions. Babylon 5 Season 5 was no worse than Season 1 in that regard; in both cases you can pretty much skip the non-Londo-and-G'Kar stuff and you're still good.
B: If you extend the story in such a way that it changes the background or themes from the first story for the worse, then that's much more awful. Starting with a Neo who says "I'm going to hang up this phone, and then I'm going to show these people a world you don't want them to see." and inexplicably transitioning to "I'm mopey." doesn't just make a bad second movie, it makes the first movie worse. Following Newt's rescue in Aliens with her pointless death in the Alien3 backstory turns Ripley from a hero into a tragic farce. And following up "They Have A Plan" with "But The Writers Can't Think Of A Good One" was just sad. Here the best way to go really is to just pretend that the sequel/prequel stories didn't exist.
Re:This has all happened before. by gorzek · 2010-10-28 04:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

While I enjoyed B5--and I expect to be crucified by the Slashdot crowd for saying this--the degree to which the show was planned out was very evident and it had a negative effect on my experience with the series. Too often, it felt like chess pieces being moved around a board. There was a startling lack of characterization. Londo and G'Kar stood out the most, performance-wise. Everyone else was just kind of "there." I had serious problems with Sheridan's portrayal and story arc, too. There were implications that left a very bad taste in my mouth. Getting into specifics: when Garibaldi opposed Sheridan's war against Clark's EarthGov, he was the lone "voice in the wilderness" calling into question the great Sheridan's actions. And then it turned out he'd been brainwashed by Bester. In other words, not a single credible person stood against Sheridan. We were never given anyone who had a rational, reasonable motive for opposing Sheridan's civil war. And so much of the series was like that, where we only got one side of the story and it was very black-and-white as to who was good and who was evil. The show told you who to root for and there was rarely any ambiguity.
As a result, the show felt overly structured and inorganic. I never got the feeling the show was evolving.
JMS did an excellent job planning the show--a daunting task, and it's also remarkable he wrote almost every episode. I don't mean to diminish that achievement. But I think the final product reveals the shortcomings in placing structure over flexibility, fencing yourself in as opposed to leaving yourself wiggle room. Yeah, he had his "escape hatches" but they were very obvious and some of them were extremely clumsy (such as the way Talia Winters was disposed of.)
The vast majority of TV shows never make it to a second season, so by that token it makes sense that you wouldn't have the entire series planned out from day one. Even if you get more than one season, you're not likely to know how many seasons or episodes you will get in total. Instead, it seems best to give yourself lots of wiggle room. Have a basic outline of how you'd like the show to progress, mark various "stopping points" that could serve as a finale in the event of cancellation, but other than that it's unlikely to be fruitful to have some behemoth Master Plan.
That said, BSG shows significant issues with their more ad hoc approach. They had a little bit of a plan but they never seemed to think far enough ahead. Various storylines were introduced then dropped (or left on the cutting room floor) or conspicuously jammed into an episode where they didn't belong because all the setup material had been lost in editing. Beyond the show's approach to writing, the editing process appears to have been very haphazard. Even so, at least BSG had a defined ending point (finding Earth) and they had goals to work toward. I thought the fourth season was much stronger than the third, probably because they had a finale deadline and knew they had only so many hours to tell the remaining story. Season three was the weakest by a good margin, in my opinion, dominated by standalone episodes that did little to advance the overall story or expand the series' canvas.
Caprica, while sometimes a good show (especially "There Is Another Sky"), suffered all the worst excesses of BSG's writing process: slow, meandering storylines that go nowhere; fuzzy characterization; unfocused narrative; inconsistent plot turns. In fact, it played very much like a soap opera, only it took itself very seriously. There is a fine line between powerful drama and soap and Caprica spent way too much time on the wrong side of it. I enjoyed the show for what it was and I'll be sorry to see it go, but this was not at all unexpected.

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Re:This has all happened before. by HereIAmJH · 2010-10-28 07:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

What was wrong with the finale?
How about the "we are the last of our race and fighting for survival", then dropping everyone on a planet and abandoning all their technology. They didn't even strip the fleet for shelter and hunting/farming implements. Or... we have shuttles that can land anywhere on the planet, but we're going to drop you in a field and make you walk for miles to a place suitable restart civilization?
The show was canceled and the writers were done. They just half-assed the finale to wrap things up.

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Another day, another update to a Google android app.
Re:This has all happened before. by Abcd1234 · 2010-10-28 08:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm enjoying SG:U, although I deeply wish they'd skipped the communication stones. Yes, they're canon and it makes sense that they'd be packed. But SG:A suffered from the same problem - it's hard to keep the "isolation" theme going when you can call home as much as you like.
I completely disagree. If they were truly stranded, the writers would have a hell of a time coming up with reasonable, interesting plotlines week after week. With the stones, they have the opportunity to incorporate a whole additional dimension to their story arc, which gives them the kind of latitude they'll need to keep the show fresh and interesting.
Although I'm hopeful that they're going to subvert the trope.. they seem to be heading in the direction of "yes, you can tell us what to do - but you can't get here, so whatcha gonna do about it if I don't listen?"
That I agree with. Everett has already made comments to that effect, and I suspect you'll see that theme pop up more as the series continues.
Re:This has all happened before. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2010-10-28 10:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

But endings are impossible. You try to tie up every loose end, but you never can.
And yet, despite all the issues around season 4/5 production, JMS still managed to tie up almost every loose end in Babylon 5 (even if you didn't realise it, because he tied some of them up several series earlier).
Most of the Star Trek series finished with some sort of decent final story arc.
Both SG1 and SGA finished quite neatly (and wrapped up the loose ends of the main story arc with an actually decent TV movie in the former case).
It can be done. Not all TV shows have to be BSG (or Lost, or FlashForward, or...), meandering aimlessly through forever in the hope that the writers will come up with something eventually.

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If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.

Or it could just be the SyFy channel by ByOhTek · 2010-10-28 02:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

Seriously, most of the stuff the show is crap-and-drivel. Caprica seemed better than average there, which is probably why they canceled it, they only want to show garbage. If they get low enough ratings on their "science fiction", then they can switch it to the Wrestling Channel.

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Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).

Re:Or it could just be the SyFy channel by digitalhermit · 2010-10-28 02:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

I know that there are folks who enjoy wrestling as much as I enjoy sci-fi/fantasy but never made sense to me that they'd stick them both on the same channel. I don't know if they just needed *any* channel to air it and it was purely economical but I can imagine some exec thinking, "Well, the demographic for sci-fi/fantasy is mainly male. Therefore, they will like wrestling." I recently canceled all but the most basic cable and Internet after realizing that every time I wanted to watch something on sci-fi I found either some idiotic ghost busters reality show or wrestling.
Re:Or it could just be the SyFy channel by DragonWriter · 2010-10-28 02:53 · Score: 2, Informative

Seriously, most of the stuff the show is crap-and-drivel. Caprica seemed better than average there, which is probably why they canceled it, they only want to show garbage.

The qualitative assessment aside, that's probably about right. That is to say, the problem is quite likely that (as was the case with Firefly, the Babylon 5 spinoff crusade, and quite possibly Babylon 5 itself in its first home, among many, many other series) its not just the ratings of the show that matter, its how good the show is at bringing in audience members that will stay for the rest of the programming the network has to offer. I think its difficult to get enough solid scifi to support a network, and the kind of "scifi" you can get for filler doesn't make a good mix that keeps people on your network when mixed with good scifi. So good scifi shows are, generally, are hard fit for network TV. ("Good", of course, is subjective, but I think with the references to other shows here and in context of this discussion, and on Slashdot, I think the kind of thing I'm talking about in general is, clear enough.)
If a show is perceived as great by a group of people that see the rest of the networks offerings as "garbage" (and not liked by the people that like the rest of the offerings on the network), then it doesn't, in the end, do as much for a network whose revenue is driven principally by advertising as a show that is somewhat less well-received on its own by which reinforces the rest of the networks lineup.
This is not the case on premium networks (HBO, Showtime, etc.), which is one reason that shows that appeal strongly to a particular, often fairly narrow, audience but that don't necessarily appeal to the same people as other shows on the network work better there.
Unfortunately for scifi fans, none of the premium networks, despite plenty of non-mainstream series, have been particularly big on scifi series of any kind so far. But maybe those networks (perhaps rightly) don't think that the people that would be willing to pay for premium networks in any case include enough scifi fans for that to be worthwhile.
Re:Or it could just be the SyFy channel by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 03:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's what TNT thought in 1998 when they acquired Babylon 5. "Well we have lots of wrestling fans, who are male, so they'll probably like a male-oreinted sci-fi show."
What they forgot to take into account is IQ. While the demos are the same (males 35 or younger), the IQ is not. Wrestling fans tend to be less educated while Scifi fans are college educated, or college-destined. The two have some overlap but not much. Result: B5 fans did not watch the wrestling that immediately followed it, and Wrestling fans did not watch the scifi show that preceded.
It appears NBC/Sci-Fi is making the same error.

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:Or it could just be the SyFy channel by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 03:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not sure how wrestling fits into the "imagine greater" tagline. Also there's really not enough wrestling to fill 7 days a week, so I think Syfy will remain scifi but will gradually mutate into a fantasy/horror channel.
Did anybody read the article?
It says, "Episodes offered via online websites should display no interstitial advertising. Ads should only appear just prior to and just after an episode plays. Interstitial advertising will only drive people to piracy, which shows no interstitial ads." How dumb can one person be? First off nobody ever watches the ads at the end of an episode. They click "stop". Therefore no (or few) advertisers will be willing to buy the end spot.
Second, episodes cost about 2 million each. An online 30-second ad goes from about $100,000. That's not enough to fund the episode, so you need more than just one or two "ads prior to the episode". While his conclusion that people will not need to pirate if they can get episode without ad-breaks, his financial model will merely send NBC/Syfy to bankruptcy as they spend more money (2 million) then they are taking in (0.1-0.2 million).

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:Or it could just be the SyFy channel by Scrameustache · 2010-10-28 05:20 · Score: 2, Informative

Did anybody read the article?
No, no I did not.

It says, "Episodes offered via online websites should display no interstitial advertising. Ads should only appear just prior to and just after an episode plays. Interstitial advertising will only drive people to piracy, which shows no interstitial ads." How dumb can one person be? First off nobody ever watches the ads at the end of an episode.
I watch the ads at the end of TED talks. I even spent an evening reading about metallurgy after watching an "how it's made" ad about watches. Learned a lot about exotic steel alloys. Fascinating stuff. If I ever feel like dropping a few grand on a watch, I know what brand I'll shop for first.

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You can't take the sky from me...

or its a fine line between gritty and miserable. by huiwe · 2010-10-28 02:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

Any chance of a scifi series that isn't dystopian? Its old, its boring and it shows no imagination. Time to cheer up.

I tried to like it. I really did. by cblguy2 · 2010-10-28 02:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

But like the summary says, it turned in to a boring show where they tried character development, but it just fell on its face. It was just about at the level of a plain drama with a little peppering of sci-fi.

Now SyFy shows wrestling on Friday nights. I won't say that's better than Caprica, but it must be paying the bills...

Instead of relaxing like I've done for the last 10+ years - watching SciFi channel on Friday nights (where did GvsE, Lexx, Brimstone, Dresden Files, Farscape, etc go?), I'm now doing other things with my Fridays... I'm not going to watch wrestling. Talk about fiction!

Paypal programmer can run NBC? by roothog · 2010-10-28 02:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

Subby's a moron. His blog starts out: "Suppose for a moment that I had been CEO of NBC Universal at the time Caprica was picked up in 2008. If I had been CEO at that time, then Caprica would not have been canceled during its first season two years later because it would have been one of the many thriving, profitable properties owned by NBC Universal."

You personally would have managed NBC better than NBC itself? According to your blog, you're a web programmer at Paypal. Maybe you need to check that ego and realize that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Why does Slashdot link to this crap?

Re:Paypal programmer can run NBC? by kcitren · 2010-10-28 02:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

His solution is to give the shows away for free, without any restrictions, with minimal advertising before and after the show, and all money being made my merchandizing? Sorry, but that just won't work. What advertiser is going to buy into this model? Plus, I'm a pretty big fan of a couple TV series, have a decent income, and I don't own any merchandise from any other those shows. Selling T-shirts will help a band stay on the road, but it won't help a million+ dollar a week enterprise.
Re:Paypal programmer can run NBC? by delinear · 2010-10-28 03:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

On the other hand, if you're going to test the model it might be worth testing it with a show that's dying anyway. I still don't think it would work - personally I don't like adverts, but if I like the show I'll suffer them, life's far too short to watch poor television just because there are few ads, though.
Re:Paypal programmer can run NBC? by TheRaven64 · 2010-10-28 03:33 · Score: 2, Interesting
The model I'd use is quite simple:
1. Give away the pilot for free (CC-NC license, tell everyone to share it with their friends).
2. Work out how much it would cost (including your profit) to film a complete season.
3. Accept donations towards this target, cancel the show and return the donations if the target is not met by the deadline.
4. If the target is met, film season 1, release under CC-NC license, encourage everyone to share it, and jump to step 2.
Basically, but out the middleman. You think a show is worth another season? Put $10-20 of your money where your mouth is. If enough people agree (or a smaller number, but willing to pay more), then you get the next season.
Because you're releasing the shows under a license that allows free redistribution, people can give a copy to their friends and say 'watch this, it's great!'. If their friends agree, they'll put some money towards the next season.
This model is actually very similar to how studios fund shows already, only they have an intermediary. The studios produce a pilot and show it to the networks. If the networks think that they can get enough people to watch it that they can make money from adverts, then they fund a complete season. Then they repeat this evaluation for each subsequent season, with the caveat that because their airspace is a limited resource they'll cut profitable shows if they can replace them with more-profitable shows. If you're getting fans to distribute the shows, then the airspace is not limited, and you don't have the extra layer of indirection in the funding.
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I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:Paypal programmer can run NBC? by cdrguru · 2010-10-28 06:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes, but the fact of the matter is that young people aren't going to be consumers of anything else except free on the Internet. If it isn't free piracy will make it free. Period, end of story.
Nobody is going to pay anymore.
The cable TV model, or really any subscription model, assumes that the content isn't available anywhere else. Well, today it is - one person subscribes, records the shows and posts them for the planet to consume for free. Why would anyone put that much effort into this process? Because in many cases they are committed to the idea of piracy destroying the revenue model that the planet operates on.
Think about it. When the only business model that younger people can envision involves giving away everything and hoping for donations the idea of getting paid for anything anymore is likely to go by the wayside. Today, we have paywalls and subscriptions as well as content being sold in stores and online. Tomorrow, or at least in the near future none of these are going to work, mostly because the consumers aren't going to go along with their side of the bargain. They will not pay because they don't have to and we are pretty much convinced that no power on Earth can make them pay.
Re:Paypal programmer can run NBC? by lordmage · 2010-10-28 07:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

His statement is that the Piracy of 60 million will become advertising consumers instead of pirates.
Meaning if you increase the base, you increase the revenue. Sell something at a smaller price point but sell millions.
To be rich, invent the PostIt or the Paper Clip and sell billions. Selling 1 huge thing a small amount of times versions constantly selling Toilet Paper. I know who makes the money there.

--
I can program myself out of a Hello World Contest!!

Better, original stories and top-notch effects by digitaldc · 2010-10-28 02:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

My opinion is that spin-off storylines and crappy effects can hurt viewership more than the cable business model. Reality shows and sequel/prequels are no substitute for a good, original story with good writers and actors. (and certainly not wrestling on a sci-fi? channel)
Look at 'The Sopranos' 'Mad Men' or 'Battlestar Galactica' if you need proof that cable shows can be huge if done right.

--
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson

Or it could be because of the ending by anss123 · 2010-10-28 02:15 · Score: 3, Informative

Knowing how Caprica is going to end killed all interest for me.

Re:Prequel, Sequel by Lumpy · 2010-10-28 02:18 · Score: 4, Funny

Seven...

A good SciFi fan needs 7 of them.

Here's hoping for Starfleet Academy daytime Soap Opera, and Star-Trek babies!

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

Re:or its a fine line between gritty and miserable by Lumpy · 2010-10-28 02:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

Try Idiocracy...

Oh wait, that's a documentary...

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

Failed Sustainability of the Cable Model? by stewbacca · 2010-10-28 02:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Failed Sustainability of the Cable Model?

How about the failed sustainability of a bad spin-off of a great series?

Re:Failed Sustainability of the Cable Model? by Quiet_Desperation · 2010-10-28 03:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

I followed Galactica religiously
Wait, was that irony? ;-)
Am I the only one who saw the final episode, thought "well, that was unsatisfying" and walked away from it to other things? It's a new geek meme now to say you liked the series but despised (*DESPISED*, I tell you!) the ending. It joins the others such as "I liked the Matrix, but the sequels were crimes against humanity" and "Dug Babylon 5, except season 5 which was worse than all the Nazi atrocities combined."
Any others? Oh, yeah, "Star Trek -TNG was great, but not seasons 1, 6 and 7 which were worse than the diarrhea from a rabid gorilla."

Then I regretted having wasted so much time on it
Why? if you enjoyed yourself at the time, how does the ending change that? It's just a fantasy show. Who cares?

He probably could have by dbIII · 2010-10-28 02:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

A lack of cocaine and an ability to determine which shoe goes on which foot in the morning may be the edge required to be a better manager than the CEO of NBC. The "rock star" MBA CEO type may be entertaining but they are very rarely effective.

Re:or its a fine line between gritty and miserable by jgtg32a · 2010-10-28 02:26 · Score: 2, Informative

http://xkcd.com/299/

Screw "SyFi" or whatever they call themselves. by The+Breeze · 2010-10-28 02:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

Caprica wasn't bad. Wasn't the best thing on TV, but wasn't bad. But, much like BSG, SyFY didn't know what to do with it and tried to milk it for all it was worth and killed it in the process.

Stupid, stupid stunts like calling NINE SHOWS a "season" and postponing new shows for almost a YEAR. Who can follow a complicated story arc after that?

And horrible, horrible publicity. In 1978, many people enjoyed the Cylon ride at Universal Studios. Although there were a few billboards and a window painting in Hollywood during BSG 2003's last season, and the Vanity Fair spread was a nice touch, often it seemed that BSG was the bastard child of Universal. Even though BSG was owned by Universal, there was NO promotion of BSG when I went to Universal Studios during season 4! A golden opportunity to promote a show in a venue that people from all over the country visit, and there was NOTHING for BSG except in a privately owned comic store on the Citywalk. Lousy, lousy promotion. Yet disposable crap like the "Mutant Shark of the Week" or whatever is everywhere.

It is obvious that SyFy has no clue whatsoever what to do when it somehow stumbles on decent programming. Even as the critics were raving about BSG being "the best thing on TV" Universal/SciFi did not know how to pitch it, nor did they seem to want to try.

This is slashdot by frozentier · 2010-10-28 02:28 · Score: 5, Funny

Somehow this has to have something to do with Windows sucking, Steve Jobs being a vampire, or a Linux kernel update.

Re:This is slashdot by Black+Parrot · 2010-10-28 02:58 · Score: 2, Funny

Well, "vampire" and "sucking" have a common theme, but I'm having trouble working in "kernel update". (I guess Linux should have been named "Vlad-The-Impalix".)
Work out that little bug, and we'll get the screenwriters on it.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade

Well I liked it. by aapold · 2010-10-28 02:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yes, it was flawed. I liked it in spite of that, perhaps even for some of those flaws. Yes, it could frustrating, yes, much of the characters were not likeable or identifyable (no "everyman" character). But it was trying to do something, really, it was. The acting and production values were top-notch, and they really did delve into all manner of interesting topics for debate, from morality to philosophy to the nature of humanity. And we just got one payoff this week, a nice action sequence with a cylon followed by an iconic phrase ("by your command") at the end. I guess we can re-edit that scene to be syfy headquarters. I'll miss caprica. It was the last reason I had to tune into the pathetic shell that occupies what was once the Sci-fi channel.

--
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ

Re:Speaking of wrestling on "Syfy" by ByOhTek · 2010-10-28 02:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

Sanctuary is interesting, it's so hit or miss with good/bad. They can do good, just not consistently.

I know what you mean about SGU. This is the Syfy channel, not the Soap Opera With Space Ships channel. I think that's 192 or something.

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).

The writers missed a far deeper storyline. by siglercm · 2010-10-28 02:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

Caprica had a chance to develop as much thought-provoking depth as the new BSG, but for some reason the show's premise went in another direction. Maybe it was just so the whole show could revolve around a young, cute Zoe??? Ratings, ratings, ratings! How can such a great idea fail?!

The potential for genius in these series was the dichotomy of the Cylons as monotheists who believe in an imminent and transcendent God versus the humans who believe in a worldly pantheon. Why would the once-mechanical Cylons believe in the concept of God? How could this happen with machines? This is the dilemma that needed to drive Caprica, but the creators/writers blew it big time. "I've got it! The avatar or 'spirit' of a monotheist Caprican will be transferred into the original Cylon. That's how they come to believe in God! Plus, that Caprican can be a cute, sexy young girl!!!" Lame!

The question they should have explored is how the Cylons came to their faith. The dilemma they could have developed is, did the programming of their consciousness/AI evolve to develop transcendent spiritual dimensions, or were the Cylons touched by God and given an inextinguishable spirit by him? Mind you, this may be too religious a storyline to be popular, or for a major production company to sign off on....

--
sigfault (core dumped)

Re:It's no wonder... by Voline · 2010-10-28 02:44 · Score: 4, Funny

That's why I never watch movies set in the Roman Empire. I totally know how it's going to end.

Re:Themes too mature by N0Man74 · 2010-10-28 02:57 · Score: 4, Interesting

It did have many dark and mature themes. There were many interesting ideas embedded in the story as well. They also had quite a few really well done scenes.

However, I think they lacked good pacing. The story seemed to plod along clumsily. It was almost like watching a television show directed by Stanley Kubrick (whom I love, but who clearly draws certain scenes on way too long).

One part of the story that I found truly absurd and overly drawn out was when Stoltz's character was repeatedly attempting to torment his dead daughter that he believed might be inside the Cylon. It was completely warped, sadistic, hard to believe, and overly drawn out. The multiple experiments to convince himself just seemed to make it feel drawn out, while making him look like a sadistic prick.

Re:Prequel, Sequel by Teese · 2010-10-28 03:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sooner or later you will have to let go.

He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!

--
"I'm a Genius!"*

*Not an actual Genius

Perhaps credit should be given where it's due... by Garwulf · 2010-10-28 03:06 · Score: 3, Insightful

I find tech commentators very funny at times. There are quite a few who are writing good, incisive stories, but at the same time there are a large number who have either disconnected from reality, or just aren't giving credit where it is due. I think it's because some people get a sense of superiority by declaring that "X is a dinosaur business model, and I'm smart enough to see it!" The writer of the original article falls under one of the latter categories.

Here's the thing - most of the suggestions he made were implemented in some at least a year ago. From the article:

"All of NBC Universal's properties should immediately begin offering full episodes in high definition on the web. These episodes should be available online at the same time they air on cable TV. Delaying the posting of these episodes to the website will only drive people to piracy."

This one has been happened for at least two years, by my count. It may not be high-definition, but most shows ARE put on the web the day after they air. Geographical boundaries are enforced, but that probably has more to do with broadcast rights than business models (if you've given your broadcast rights in Britain to the BBC, for example, you're not going to undercut them online).

"Episodes offered via this medium should display no interstitial advertising. Ads should only appear just prior to and just after an episode plays. Interstitial advertising will only drive people to piracy, which shows no interstitial ads."

Already the way it's done.

"No DRM should be used to protect against consumer copying or saving of the episodes from the website to their computers. This will only drive people to piracy."

Can't speak to the DRM side (I've never tried to copy a show, I've only just watched it). But I know that the BBC allows downloads of shows, and it wouldn't surprise me if other stations did too.

"The online episodes should be the same high quality aired on cable TV. Reduced quality will only drive people to piracy. Bandwidth costs can be reduced by leveraging bit torrent."

As far as I know most are offered in at least standard definition. I know that the BBC, for example, also offers downloads in HD, and it wouldn't surprise me if others do too.

"A subscription service should be offered which completely eliminates all advertising for the subscriber and offers other benefits, such as discounted merchandise and other additional services above and beyond the basic TV content without ads."

Well, this might help, and to be fair, as far as I know the television stations don't offer this. And, it's not a bad idea. So, point to the author on this one. But, at the same time, it should be pointed out that what the consumer is interested in is the show, and they're already getting that for free - so there wouldn't be much incentive to use this service in the first place.

"Nothing behind the subscription paywall should be something that can be pirated. Services and physical merchandise cannot be pirated."

Okay - this one needs a reality check. It's a television network - what services precisely is it going to offer? Anything audio-visual in nature can be pirated. And, as far as physical merchandise goes, there is an entire market out there of cheap knock-offs - which is a form of piracy.

"But it's not just NBC Universal. It seems like every major TV company is playing with fire by ignoring the internet."

Um...right. Which is why most networks have websites on which you can watch their programming, as well as launching on-demand services.

So, to sum up - the author of this article is ignoring what television networks are actually doing so that he can prop up a straw man and declare them to be following a dinosaur business model. If he was writing back in 2006, he might have had a point. Unfortunately, he's writing in 2010, and the person who is behind the times in this case is him.

--
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive

Re:Prequel, Sequel by heptapod · 2010-10-28 03:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

Keep waiting. The show has been dead and buried for eight years. Move on and find something new like the producers, writers and actors did after it was booted off the air. Even if some network brings Firefly back it's not going to be as good as the original because fans will change their rhetoric of "Bring back Firefly" to "This new Firefly sucks".

Re:It's no wonder... by RivenAleem · 2010-10-28 03:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

That's why J. J. Abrams should have directed/produced Caprica. He would totally have led us down one direction, letting us all think we knew Caprica gets nuked in the end, and then have something totally different happen.

That is what I loved about the Star Trek movie.[SPOILER WARNING] All the way through it I as thinking "Gosh, he's going to have a hard time undoing the destruction of Vulcan". But when it ended I was somewhat stunned that he left it destroyed, and has chosen to go along some totally different path.

If they had a point in the series where Gaius appeared from the future and prevented the Cylon attack, then everyone would be, like, "Whoa".

Re:It's no wonder... by Altus · 2010-10-28 03:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

I can understand no liking Caprica, but how can it not be Sci Fi? AI, robots, and virtual reality, that sounds like Science Fiction to me.

I think for some people here Sci Fi just means action adventure with space ships and lasers and explosions.

--

"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

Re:Good by Crayon+Kid · 2010-10-28 03:34 · Score: 3, Insightful

What is wrong with drama being the meat of a SciFi TV show? I always thought that the best SciFi is that where the SciFi itself serves only as a backdrop, a support for the story and the characters, a background which would not otherwise be possible in contemporary or historical settings. I dislike shows that focus on the "cool factor" of SciFi. Most often than not they lack depth. SciFi is about making the spectator think.

I remember a scene in "War of the Worlds" which has always stuck with me. It's the one where the hero is hiding in a demolished house while the Martians are combing the area in their great Machines. He likens the feeling to the one a rabbit must get waking up in its burrow one day to find the forrest being utterly wiped out by a construction site. All this destruction, these huge things you cannot understand and all you can do is to hide, tremble and hope they won't turn over a root or a piece of rock and find you.

That scene would have not been possible without SciFi. There's nothing in human history that can replicate the horrible feeling of a human being literally looked down upon like vermin (figuratively, yes; literally, no). It's a very novel and unsettling feeling. The rabbit analogy was great, it was necessary, but it was not enough by itself. And the entire scene (as well as the book) is ultimately about human drama, not about the aliens from outer space.

--
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer

Re:or its a fine line between gritty and miserable by elrous0 · 2010-10-28 03:38 · Score: 3, Funny

Your post sounds all pompous and faggy to me. Obviously, your shit is all fucked up.

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.

Re:Prequel, Sequel by H0p313ss · 2010-10-28 03:49 · Score: 2, Funny

Sooner or later you will have to let go.

He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!

KHAAAAAN!

--
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction

And another weak point by Livius · 2010-10-28 04:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

In theory the idea behind Caprica was the corporate politics and foreign policy machinations behind the creation (and then abuse) of cybernetic life in the form of the Cylons, but there was effectively the first working Cylon by the end of the pilot, and she was created by a semi-supernatural deus ex machina. Also she just happened to be a copy of the personality of a religious fanatic with a pathological and completely unmotivated hatred of her parents. So before the series has even begun we already have the Cylons, and the mystery of why they turned out they way they did is just because they're spoiled, angry, borderline psychotic teenagers. (Actually, the virtual reality fantasy of a spoiled, angry, borderline psychotic teenager) Monotheism wasn't a great competing philosophical system, it was just a creepy cult with no point to it other than a pretext for adding lots of pretty teenage girls to the story.

There was one nice touch with the early 20th century clothing. There was something creepy about seeing fashion your brain is telling you is old juxtaposed with futuristic technology. I found that more convincingly alien than any costume or prosthetic.

Re:Prequel, Sequel by eriklou · 2010-10-28 04:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

Stupid hippies ruined the Scifi channel when they renamed it something "less scary to non nerds."

Re:Prequel, Sequel by Abstrackt · 2010-10-28 04:33 · Score: 3, Funny

Here's hoping for Starfleet Academy daytime Soap Opera, and Star-Trek babies!

I'm ashamed to admit I would probably watch that just because it's Star Trek.

--
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett

Re:Good by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 05:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

I like SGU's first 5 or so episodes.
Why?
Because they are constantly on the verge of death, such as running out of air or water or shields.

But then after that, they stabilized every on board and ran out of ideas. So the writers turned towards political crap with the Lucian Alliance, and it has been just as boring as the SG1 episodes about politics. Ick. I'd rather be watching Seasons 6 and 7 of Atlantis, because I liked the people better and the premise.

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Re:Perhaps credit should be given where it's due.. by commodore64_love · 2010-10-28 05:15 · Score: 2, Informative

>>>>>"Episodes offered via this medium should display no interstitial advertising. Ads should only appear just prior to and just after an episode plays."
>>
>>Already the way it's done.

Not quite true. NBC.com, Syfy.com, and hulu.com insert either 1 or 2 ads at every standard commercial break. The writer is saying they should stop doing that, and just play the episode straight through w/o interruption.

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Re:Perhaps credit should be given where it's due.. by Kjella · 2010-10-28 06:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

This one has been happened for at least two years, by my count. It may not be high-definition, but most shows ARE put on the web the day after they air. Geographical boundaries are enforced, but that probably has more to do with broadcast rights than business models (if you've given your broadcast rights in Britain to the BBC, for example, you're not going to undercut them online).

If they made more money on a world wide online release than the reduction in broadcast right value, they'd do it. That would just be business. However, I suspect the TV networks intentionally price such a show unrealistically low to maintain their position. They absolutely don't want to teach people to go online and watch it, that would be shooting themselves in the foot. So as long as no one can do without broadcast income, they can effectively dictate the terms.

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

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