IE6 Addiction Inhibits Windows 7 Migrations

eldavojohn writes "As anyone in the industry will tell you, a lot of money went into developing web applications specific to IE6. And corporations can't leave Windows XP for Windows 7 until IE6 runs (in some way) on Windows 7. Microsoft wants to leave that non-standard browser mess behind them, but as the article notes, 'Organizations running IE6 have told Gartner that 40% of their custom-built browser-dependent applications won't run on IE8, the version packaged with Windows 7. Thus, many companies face a tough decision: Either spend time and money to upgrade those applications so that they work in newer browsers, or stick with Windows XP.' Support for XP is going to end in April 2014. In order to deal with this, companies are looking at virtualizing IE6 only (instead of a full operating system) so that it can run on Windows 7 — even though Microsoft says this violates licensing agreements. IE6 is estimated to have roughly 16% of browser market share, and due to mistakes in the past it may never truly die."

Comments

What do you expect?

[obergfellja]

When people get comfortable enough with something, they don't look for new products to replace it. IE is just another reason why people don't change.

Re:What do you expect?

[mark72005]

If a prepackaged, working solution currently existed to virtualize IE6 and solve all these problems with just the receipt of a licensing fee, this would not be a story.

Similarly, if it were cheap to rewrite all these web applications for IE8, it would also not be a story.

Re:What do you expect?

[Critical Facilities]

It reminds me of when I used to work for a very large, US based Financial Services Provider. They would waste so much money doing things in these roundabout, haphazard ways despite being shown very plainly how planning project progression carefully would save them money and heartburn. Of course, they'd never listen. So, we came up with what we felt best summed up their mission statement:

"There's never enough money to do it right, but there's always enough money to do it again."

Re:What do you expect?

[Rich0]

These are all big corporations who buy tons of windows licenses.

MS isn't going to sue them because they are running a bunch of IE6-apps on copies of IE6 that they paid for via XP licenses, on copies of Windows 7 that they pay licenses for, supported by Active Directory and Exchange servers that they pay licenses for and client licenses for, etc. Oh, and the reason they're doing it is because MS stopped taking their money for XP extended support contracts and instead they're paying for Windows 7 extended support contracts.

MS would be suicidal to file legal action against companies like this. They're EXACTLY who keeps them in business. No, they're going to do everything they can to make the migration path as smooth as they can. The IT guys at these companies can pick up the phone and have engineers at their beck and call any time they want - they are MS's bread and butter and they know it.

Sure, MS would prefer to leave IE6 behind, and no doubt they'll do what they can to get people to move on. However, the worst they'll actually do is remove official support - they won't be suing their customers.

Re:What do you expect?

[John Hasler]

We are going through the painful process of rewriting and certifying IE6 specific apps and migrating to IE8.

Do you mean that you are going to lock yourself into IE8, or that you are going to rewrite and certify to standards?

What forethought by Microsoft

[ByOhTek]

They used IE6 to E^3 (Embrace, Extetnd, Extinguish) Windows 7 long before it even came out!

So sue them.

[Hatta]

In order to deal with this, companies are looking at virtualizing IE6 only (instead of a full operating system) so that it can run on Windows 7 -- even though Microsoft says this violates licensing agreements.

Then Microsoft should sue them. That would teach them, right? After all, violating intellectual property licenses is the same as theft.

Never Upgrade, Never Surrender!

[VoiceInTheDesert]

Just goes to show you that no matter how annoying you can claim Microsoft to be, their user base can be equally so with their instance that decade-old software be their ONLY solution.

You gotta upgrade sometime, people.

Re:Never Upgrade, Never Surrender!

[Anonymous Coward]

Companies wrote those things because they had an immediate business need to get things done. Over time, they added onto them, and the tools became much more entrenched and something they can't get away from.

Yes. It's called "bad design", or in enterprise terms, "short-term focus". Many of those applications can be linked back to the dot-com bubble, when every kid and their dog was hired instantly to "be part of the hype". And because of the hype maybe, both the people hiring and (most of) the contractors were not expecting the application to last ten years.

But we are now ten years from when the bubble burst. I have zero sympathy for the companies that have eschewed investing in their "business-critical" infrastructure for ten years. It reeks of dodoism.

In the real world, people need solutions now

People that need solutions now have already missed the boat. They make poor businessmen because they lack strategic vision. See, I can do generalized, unfounded and contentless soundbites too ;)

The reality is, when XP and IE6 were corporate standards, that was the toolset you had to work with

Sure. That attitude is fine when you're prototyping, or doing a quick/throw-away/hack job. But when you're designing a "business-critical" application, long-term stability should have been called for. And MS itself had already indicated in 2005 (at the introduction of IE7) that IE7 would only support IE6 as a "compatibility mode" (through META-tags, I believe). That should have been the first clue, even for C?O's, that IE6 was not a suitable toolset (platform) for long-term stability.

XP Mode?

[dilbert627]

Isn't that the point of XP Mode? To run legacy applications that aren't 7-compatible?

IE6: bigger mess than Y2K

[CAIMLAS]

IE6 is beginning to be a bigger mess than Y2K. It's not yet such a long-term problem, but the scope is pretty board due to the fact that it's the entire program, not just date fields, which are broken.

Re:IE Patch

[FreonTrip]

It's akin to wading in filth when you haven't had any shots. Paranoia is probably a more appropriate response - on a system with IE6 installed, the only places I visit are Windows Update and Mozilla, to download Firefox. Doing anything else is basically throwing a malware fiesta, and advertising your computer as a buffet..

Huge Success!

[Pentium100]

Well, Microsoft made IE6 not compatible with standards so that people would make sites compatible with IE (because the majority use IE, since it came with Windows) so that the sites would be less compatible with standard browsers that work on other operating systems, so that people would use Windows and IE, since a lot of sites only worked with IE.

Corporate software also requires IE6, since it comes with Windows XP, why make a program that's compatible with other browsers, except IE and then require that browser when all your users have IE6 by default? Now it is inconvenient, but redoing the app to support standards would be expensive.

So, now IE6 is so entrenched in the corporate environment that not only it prevents the company from migrating to Linux or some other OS, but it also prevents the company from migrating to a newer OS made by Microsoft.

Whoever was in charge of the decision to make IE6 non compatible did a wonderful job - XP and IE6 will live for a long time. It will probably even outlive newer versions of Windows.

Re:Huge Success!

[Cederic]

Exactly. IE6 is fantastic, truly magnificent - it's a poster child for any architect.

Why? Because now we have the perfect "here's how to fuck up your organisation by not following standards" example. With the added bonus that almost any organisation I go to work for will have fallen into exactly that trap.

Re:Encapsulating IE6

[mlts]

Very true. However it isn't as easy to get set up and pushed out on an enterprise basis as a single app file. Another downside is that because XP Mode is complete VM that can easily get compromised, it requires an instance of antivirus for corporate IT reasons. Having a single executable that runs in a "jail" is a lot better performance-wise, and means one doesn't have to set up virtualization on company desktops.

Probably the simplest solution for a company that needs IE6 on desktops for one task or application would be to use Citrix or Terminal server, and just keep a well locked down copy of IE6 on a dedicated server.

What do you expect? I expect standards

[Kludge]

If your corporate IT standards mandate ...

That's the point: standards.

Unless your company is developing its own browser and its own OS, making it's own corporate standard on browsers is stupid.
The standards that should have been followed here are the W3C standards. Not the "standards" of one company with one browser on one operating system.

Before 2000 there were computer standards in place. Not following those standards is now an obvious huge failure and now companies will be paying for it.

Re:What do you expect? I expect standards

[gorzek]

IE was (and still is, in some places) a de facto standard. Calling it "stupid" doesn't change that fact.

Back around 2000 the browser wars were very much alive and compliance with W3C standards was largely mythical, to say nothing of fractious JavaScript implementations.

Corporations had to settle on something. Microsoft won out primarily because the browser was a) bundled and b) made by the same company as the operating system. It was just less hassle all around to go with IE at the time.

We can look back now and say it was stupid to standardize on a browser with such a non-standard implementation, but that's because we have the benefit of various standards-compliant browsers now, and the notion that you should be able to view a particular site with any browser you choose has achieved wide penetration. At the time, it was thought one browser would "win" and control the standards for all practical purposes, and most people banked on Microsoft. It was an understandable gamble at the time even though it looks foolish in hindsight.

Re:What do you expect? I expect standards

[TheRaven64]

Back in the distant past, there used to be the notion of a second source. That is, for every product that you buy - especially ones that your business depends upon - you should have at least two potential suppliers, even if you never actually bought anything from the second one. There are several reasons for this. If the first supplier goes bust, you have a backup. If there is a second supplier, then the first supplier can't raise prices too much or they will suddenly find that they are no longer the first supplier.

Back when IBM made the PC, they insisted on a second source for every single component, with two exceptions. The BIOS, they wrote in house. The operating system, they regarded as a commodity, which therefore didn't need a second source. You'd think that other companies might learn from this mistake.

Part of the economic attraction of open source is that it automatically comes with a second source; any open source product that you buy (by definition) comes with the rights to get someone else to maintain it for you.

If you build your internal infrastructure on top of one company's products and do not have an alternate supplier, then you are saying to that company 'we are willing to pay whatever you decide to charge in the future'. This was known well before IE4 was released, and I was certainly not the only person at the time saying that building intranet sites depending on a particular browser was a stupid idea. I have absolutely no sympathy for companies that decided to save a small amount of money in exchange for a large cost later on.