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Apache Declares War On Oracle Over Java
jfruhlinger writes "The Apache Software Foundation, feeling increasingly marginalized as Oracle asserts its control over the Java platform, is fighting back, trying to rally fellow members of the Java Community Process to block the next version of the language if Oracle doesn't make it available under an open license amenable to Apache. Last month's Oracle-IBM pact was a blow against the ASF, which had worked with IBM in the past, but it appears that Apache isn't giving up the fight."
C# is tied to a single OS. That makes it a nonstarter right there.
Mono is not a portable version, it is like its namesake a disease. Meant to poison the well that is Free Software.
Geronimooooooo!
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Nokia went for Python on Maemo. Looks like they knew what they were doing.
Which part do you disagree with?
That's a little dramatic, isn't it? Mono is the open source implementation of .NET, which is a very solid framework I might add, though clearly MS did wield it to further Windows (I don't deny that). Mono is released under GPL, LGPL, and MIT licenses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software).
I mean, facts are facts, so why do you have to be so dramatic about it? Or I mean.. did it.. where did Mono touch you? You can tell me.
Mono should be looked at like WINE, useful to port programs to, useful to get some programs to run, but shouldn't be your language of choice if you want to get cross-platform apps.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Mono is a trap, and solely exists at Microsoft's pleasure. Once MS decides the want to kill it, out go the patent infringement lawsuits and anyone using Mono is on shaky ground unless they donate to Microsoft's coffers.
The fact that it hasn't happened yet is no insurance. Copyright/left is one thing, patents are another and I don't trust Microsoft.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
The license is not the issue, the patents are the issue.
If it gains traction rest assured MS will come seeking rent like they trying to do with android now.
Mono violates the same patents as Android and Harmony. Microsoft bought its licence from SUN, but it does not cover Mono. Unless Microsoft makes Mono its own project, it is no better than anything else. And I thought "rewriting Hudson in C is a stupid idea". Now it makes sense...
I think he disagreed with this
"it is like its namesake a disease. Meant to poison the well that is Free Software."
Im confused, was cobol the only way to develop on millions of computer (aka smartphones)?
At one time, COBOL was the only way to develop on tens of thousands of computers. Very expensive computers with very expensive maintenance and licensing contracts. There was a lot of money in this, measured in hundreds of thousands of dollars per year per site. That's probably an order of magnitude or two lower than the money at stake in the mobile software universe, but it's also probably a larger percentage of the overall market at the time.
There is a common but entirely mistaken belief that the great issues and controversies of this time are unique, unprecedented, and never-before seen. But license and market-control conflict is ancient in this industry. Almost every hassle you may see today has been seen by some earlier generation of dinosaurs.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
There should be a top ten list of rising stars among evil companies.
(But who would hold slots #2-10?)
Except the arrows are now much bigger and go "boom!".
If you wanted to make this headline more sensational, you could change it to "Apache says GPLv2 license not good enough." which is what OpenJDK7 is licensed under.
Yeah, Apache may be at war with Oracle now, but this has the potential for much more widespread damage. It also puts the Free Software Foundation in an... interesting position, as this technically is the first salvo from Apache in a license war between GPL and Apache License.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Oracle wants to reduce the competition and to "leverage" IBM's expertise. Once that expertise has fixed the issues with OpenJDK and Harmony has died, IBM becomes disposable to Oracle.
IBM is most unlikely to stop all work on Harmony, they're just not going to distribute it. Oracle's implementation of Java will suffer performance and reliability problems. IBM already has its own compiler (Jikes) and IBM already has a Java distribution. Once IBM has the certification toolkit, it can internally continue to develop Harmony and upgrade Jikes to v7 Java. Remember, this is just a repeat of IBM's experience with Microsoft regarding OS/2 - only Oracle hasn't the muscle of Microsoft. Once IBM is satisfied, they dump Oracle, release their Java as standard on all IBM hardware and, because they have better ties with Linux than Oracle, on many Linux distros, and they'll likely be able to convince the courts that they don't infringe on any patents because they are officially licensed to be able to use whatever the technology is.
Again, though, IBM won't want too much competition in the Open Source community. They can't rob Oracle of power over Java if they aren't the de-facto controllers of Java. For now, they'll be best of enemies. Going back to the OS/2 fiasco, they learned the hard way that in such partnerships the first one to dump the other will be the winner. The partner left in the dirt WILL be trampled over, no matter how much better their product might be technically. And IBM will want to be the winner in this. Mind you, so will Oracle. Oracle will also be familiar with this process and will want to pull a Microsoft, killing IBM's Java work, forcing IBM to either sacrifice all they've spent or to sell it to Oracle at bargain-basement prices.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Most people never thought Java would become a hot potato to be careful with. No one thought that Oracle would be going after people over patents. Sun put Java under the GPL2.
Can you tell me how Mono is more safe being under the GPL/LGPL/MIT when it is using tech directly from a company that is in many ways a direct competitor and has outwardly stated it thinks of open source as "communism"? Microsoft does have patents on specific things used in Mono. Mono is also under the GPL2. Coincidence? I think not.
It's called a can of worms. It's just we have a lot of slashdotters who refuse to believe it now for whatever reason.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
Apache to Oracle: Do what we say or we'll resign!
Oracle to Apache: Sayanora
I don't know that they should stay, but if they want to have any influence working with Oracle, aligned along Oracle's self interest is the only way to have impact.
Declaring "war" and making threats is highly unlikely to cause any useful change in Oracle's direction.
Surely the OpenSolaris experience illustrates just how Oracle behaves w.r.t. threats.
Getters are good because they abstract the data model away from the object interface. It doesn't matter where the data comes from or how it's stored because access is always through a method (if needed).
What's stupid about Java is that it doesn't hide the getters and setters behind properties. Just like the data model should be irrelevant, so should the fact that you may be calling a method to get a value.
Object Pascal (and perhaps C#) does it right. The getter may be a private data field or it may be a method. It's unimportant to the user of the object.
>I have plenty of alternatives.
Ok. I have a mature product, which is a custom manufacturing ERP system. I am quite proud of it, it represents the peak of my career. It has been built in J2EE, and has some components deployed in JBoss, and some in regular Tomcat instances. A small ($50 million/year) company runs its factory on this system, which is responsible for supply chain, procurement, inventory control, and cost accounting. The system is dependent on more than a handful of items from the Apache toolchain.
In my shoes, would you be able to explain to my boss, how "plenty of alternatives" fit into this scenario?
And if you believe the statement is actually legally binding (did you ask a lawyer? Thought not), and if you believe there are no loopholes in it, then you are what we call a "convenient idiot". Don't be offended, it's a technical term. Look it up.
Google thought Java had a legally binding statement that said anyone who used it was not liable under Sun patents. Look where that got them.
They sent a recruiting email to myself and some of my friends -- some of the top students at the top CS school in the country -- asking if we were interested in coming to work on the Solaris kernel full-time; they were pretty much collectively told, "After what you did to Sun? No way."
Unfortunately, I guess that your insightful feedback won't make it up the chain. All that Oracle HR will report is the number of new hires (and there will be some) that campaign made. They won't be top-class, on the whole (my opinon for the same reason you gave for flipping them the bird), and the Sun exodus will continue...
Please, if there's anybody out there who's considering sticking with Sun (ie the Sun products continued within Oracle) please speak up - I really need some pros to even make it worth while totting up the increasing number of cons.
Wait, if you don't have to write an interface at least twice in code, then twice in XML configuration files and once in a .INI style configuration file, along with another XML file to put it all together, how do you know it's J2EE?
$4.99? If Oracle sold it, it wouldn't be a bottle, it would be a per-anus charge of $4,999 for each... "application".