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Did the Windows Phone 7 Bomb In the US?

Thorfinn.au writes "Microsoft's new smartphone platform is off to what could be considered a slower start than expected in North America. That's according to The Street, which has released a report saying that the company sold some 40,000 units on its first day on the market. Early sales numbers from other phone platform launches include Apple's estimated 500,000 iPhones being snatched up during its launch weekend in 2007, and a million and a half G1 Android phones being bought up by T-Mobile subscribers in the phone's first six months." Do you know anyone with one of these phones? Me either.

29 of 609 comments (clear)

  1. If You're Late to the Party by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You better bring something that no one else has. I'm still looking and waiting for something that WP7 devices are offering that isn't covered by Android and/or iOS. I understand that a hybrid is valuable when Android and iOS offer either extreme but ... can someone tell me what WP7 does that makes it unique? What are its selling points? Because from what I've read, there are no unique aspects to it.

    It's XBox all over again. They'll lose several billion on WP7 and write it off. WP8 will come out and after three years of shoving the platform down people's throats, they'll be a hard won 25% of the market. Don't get me wrong, I own an XBox 360 but how many years of mistakes did it take for them and how much did they lose on the original to come to that piece of market share?

    Why flush money down a losing venture until it starts to see a return? Because they can. And one of the many faults of capitalism is that those with a ton of money can do the stupidest shit and still come out okay.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:If You're Late to the Party by KiloByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are assuming that WP8 will magically be a success, with, as you say, "25% of the market". What are the reasons to think that? It's not like WP7 is the first or second of Microsoft's forays into phones -- just look at the aptly named WinCE or the recent Microsoft Kin flop.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    2. Re:If You're Late to the Party by MemoryDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes really hardly surprising, and I was hoping for it, not because I wish Microsoft evil, but after years of dreadful ies on the desktop at least in the emerging mobile sektor webkit and its html5 implementation has become more or less the current defacto standard, so people finally can settle for a decent webapp programming experience. And then wham 3 years late Microsoft comes with its newest version of the os and tries to shove IE7 down the web developers throats. I have yet to meet a single web developer who was excited about the browser in WinMobile 7.
      If Microsoft had gotten its way then we would have had ie6 all over again in the mobile sector, where a significant portion had a browser which had the latest standards in and stubborn Microsoft users wanted to see the latest whizbang features on their rotten browser without even thinking about installing an alternative. We have been there the last 10 years, and I really do not want history to repeat itself!

    3. Re:If You're Late to the Party by ducomputergeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It depends, what is the long game? US companies have the unhealthy opinion of "What do you do for me next quarter?", but if the strategy is "Where do I want to be in 15 years?" (Europe) or "Where do I want to be in 50 years?" (Asia), then those losses are short term. And if you think the future is going to be some kind of media appliance over the next 10 - 15 years, yeah, you've lost a bunch of money on the first two generations, but the experience they've gained for the next 5 generations is invaluable.

      I recently bought a 360. I used to play at my friends house, but as we've gotten older and they've gotten married/had kids or moved elsewhere...

      Why did I buy a 360 over a Wii or PS3? Because that's what my friends had. Most of the people I know who bought Wii's seemed to have lost interest in the machines. Most use it more to stream Netflix than play games these days. And very few of my friends had a PS3 and most who did also had a 360.

      Now I know those numbers don't hold up on a global scale. Xbox has not been that popular outside of the US.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    4. Re:If You're Late to the Party by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You better bring something that no one else has.

      Exactly. You can't release a new phone that lacks device encryption for secure Exchange connections, static IP for WiFi, multitasking, cut and paste, and Flash support in the current market. Two or three years ago? Sure. But not now.

    5. Re:If You're Late to the Party by Jugalator · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You better bring something that no one else has.

      Yup... and especially not LESS.

      WP7 doesn't do multitasking with third party apps (only Microsoft's own apps has this advantage, go figure...), and doesn't even support encrypted Exchange connections. Yes, yes, Microsoft wrote Exchange, and even Windows Mobile 6.5 supported this! This will effectively shut out many enterprise users from using this phone if their servers reject unencrypted connections (and rightly so, in my opinion).

      It's funny when iPhone has support for encrypted Exchange connections in built-in software on both OS X (Mail) and iOS, and MS in neither Windows 7, nor Windows Phone 7. No, not even Windows Live Mail supports true Exchange connections -- it has to be set up to serve as an IMAP server. And Exchange is a behemoth in the enterprise market.

      Go go Ballmer with your strategic decisions.

      Or maybe it's their shareholders that need to go "strategic" on Ballmer...

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    6. Re:If You're Late to the Party by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is, they're comparing 1 day of W7 phones to 2 days of iPhone sales, and to 180 days of android sales.

      Normalised:
      W7: 40k
      iPhone: 300k
      Android: 8k

      Of course, I'm not suggesting that the distribution will actually be even, but this is *way* closer to the numbers than comparing 1 days sales to 6 months of sales.

    7. Re:If You're Late to the Party by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They're not selling a phone, at least, not according to the ads. They're selling an excuse. Otherwise, how can it be "the phone for people who want to do other stuff than be using the phone."

      They practically come right out and imply that it's going to be as buggy as an un-patched windows 95 machine...

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    8. Re:If You're Late to the Party by MemoryDragon · · Score: 4, Informative

      I will bother, because it is a fact that mobile ie in Windows mobile 7 is in the core an ie7 with some bugfixing backports from ie8, so slightly better than ie7 but worse than ie8 with probably a different error behavior in many issues between both versions. And I am not making this up, this is the official statement from Microsoft!
      Believe it or not but you can read that up in the blogs of Microsofts mobile division!
      Microsoft has done that in the past as well, mobile ie 6.5 was in fact an ie 5.5 engine with some ie6 backports, needless to say this browser was a desaster bugwise, different bugs than both ie 5.5 and ie6 with some carried over from ie6 and some from 5.5 and add to that a bunch of its own bugs.

    9. Re:If You're Late to the Party by bigredradio · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is it an iPhone? If it's not an iPhone why would I want it? I want the one with the bigger GBs and the WiFis.

    10. Re:If You're Late to the Party by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

      all you need is a dedicated user base that can you can grow. Microsoft is doing the right thing here, they've got the money to play a long game.

      What dedicated user base? Remember the past user base for Windows Mobile was primarily business users. WP7 is not backwards compatible and WM6 was hardly loved by its users. For business users like me, I was forced to get WM6 by the company, and I hated it. With WP7 focused on the consumer market and missing many enterprise features, it is highly unlikely that our company would recommend much less purchase WP7 phones at the moment. New business users might as well get a BlackBerry as it seems to be the only purely business smart phone left. iPhone and Android are both adding enterprise features with each release so at the moment, they are more likely to be adopted by businesses than WP7.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    11. Re:If You're Late to the Party by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful
      WP7 doesn't do multitasking with third party apps (only Microsoft's own apps has this advantage, go figure...),

      I bet that particular "feature" can be chalked up the the general craptitude of the .NET Compact Framework they've chosen to ship with. It probably uses too much memory, deadlocks, can't relinquish devices or otherwise does nasty things which assume only one running instance.

      All the 1st party apps are native, so they're not affected. 3rd party apps are expected to use the runtime so they are. Assuming the APIs that apps run against define a sensible life cycle I don't see any reason they couldn't fix it.

      But it does highlight how immature Windows Phone 7 is despite its glossy UI. Other red flags are things like it's inability to deal with removable storage as well as various things that were in 6.5 but not 7. Clearly these things can be (re)implemented but until they are, I would advise anyone thinking of picking up one of these phones to run a mile.

    12. Re:If You're Late to the Party by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've seen the ads, but in classic Microsoft fashion they're marketing the operating system with little to no emphasis on what phone you'd buy to get it or what carriers' retail stores will stock it. Say what you want about Apple, but no one was ever confused about what an iPhone was or where to get one.

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
  2. While I agree it's not as good as... by Pojut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I agree it's not as good as Microsoft probably hoped for, I'd like to point out that comparing it's sales to the iPhone (who was, for all intents and purposes, the first of its kind to go critical) and Android (the first solid competitor to the first smartphone to really go critical) isn't exactly fair.

    If anything, I'd say that 40,000 for the first day in an already crowded market isn't bad. Not great, but not bad.

    1. Re:While I agree it's not as good as... by wvmarle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No matter how you look at it 40,000 is still 40,000. That's a significant number of phones. The iPhone and Google's phones were hyped badly before launch; highly anticipated; no wonder they sold well.

      More fair would be to compare it to say a new Nokia or Sony Ericsson top-line model. I bet those companies would be quite happy to sell that number in the first day of sales. A not hyped, "yet another" kind of phone, that's what this is and that's what it should be compared to.

      But of course Apple's iPhone is the de-facto reference smartphone these days. No matter what you do, release a smartphone and it'll be compared to the iPhone first.

    2. Re:While I agree it's not as good as... by dc29A · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The iPhone and Google's phones were hyped badly before launch; highly anticipated; no wonder they sold well.

      Exactly. There was no hype at all around Windows Phone 7. None. Nada. Zilch. That explains all those TV commercials, launch parties, paid shills like Paul Thurrott and Co. touting Windows 7 Phone as the second coming of Zeus.

    3. Re:While I agree it's not as good as... by jittles · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think it's not fair to make the comparison just because AT&T didn't bother to supply their stores with anything. I have a friend who took the day off work to wait in line and buy one. He had called the store and asked them if he needed to get in early and they told them they had plenty of phones in stock and that he could come in any time and buy one. He got there an hour before the store opened and found out that the AT&T corporate store had 2 phones in stock. That's right. 2. Now maybe that's all the demand they thought they'd get but that store was sold out the second the store opened.

      I don't think AT&T has any interest in offering serious competition to the iPhone. That's why all their android phones are pretty crappy compared to T-Mobile, Sprint or Verizon.

    4. Re:While I agree it's not as good as... by Tom · · Score: 4, Funny

      touting Windows 7 Phone as the second coming of Zune.

      There, fixed that for you.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    5. Re:While I agree it's not as good as... by amiga3D · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft never really needed for it's advertising to be effective. When they operated out of a virtual monopoly they just spent advertising dollars to brag on themselves. Their idea seemed to be that the masses were going to have to buy it anyway, all they had to do was pat themselves on the back. This stuff of having to compete with aggressive competitors is all new to them.

  3. Far too early to say by MrHanky · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At this moment, declaring Windows Phone 7 a flop is just FUD.

  4. Wait, we're comparing one *day* to six months? by JSBiff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another fabulous slashdot article summary - comparing the sales on the first day of the WP7 phone with 6 months of sales for the G1? Seriously? I'm no Microsoft fanboy (I've got a G1 sitting on my desk 8 inches from me right now), but c'mon. It would be much more interesting to know how many G1's were sold the first day, the first week, and the first month, and compare that to WP7.

  5. Well... by nametaken · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Say what you will about Microsoft but I don't think they actually had expectations of the things flying off the shelf in the first few days. They know they're re-entering a brutal market with a lot of very good products and very strong competitors.

  6. Not enough units by TheBiGW · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apparently most stores only got 10 or so units and they sold out immediately. Pretty hard to sell more units of something if you don't have the stock.

    --
    Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for an hour. Set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
  7. Science, I say Science again! by dwightk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love the comparison of First day :: Launch Weekend :: First 6 Months

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    Like anyone can even know that
  8. My buying experience by plasmana · · Score: 5, Informative

    I arrived at AT&T 10 minutes after they opened and they were sold out the 4 phones they had. I was the first person to get on the waiting list. There were 5 people behind me waiting to get on the list. They did receive one more phone that day and I got it. I suspect the demand was higher that day than the available inventory. As for the phone, I love it. Showed it to my wife and kids (14 & 16). The kids raved about it, and my wife (not a technology nerd) was surprised she like it so much versus her iPhone (3G). The UI is very slick, usable and responsive. This is not your typical Microsoft version 1 product. It feels a lot more like it came from a first class consumer electronics company than a business software company.

    1. Re:My buying experience by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is not your typical Microsoft version 1 product

      Does everybody have amnesia? Microsoft has been making smartphones for a long time now. Calling this a version one product would be like calling Vista a version 1 product. It's significantly different from it's ancestors, but it has ancestors. I would hope they learned something along the way.

  9. Re:Actually yes... by jimicus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Thing is, there are still companies that are as near as dammit 100% Microsoft shops (or at least are for anything that matters) - though they're becoming a lot thinner on the ground than they were five years ago.

    There are also quite a few companies that *think* they're 100% Microsoft shops. (These are the companies where technology isn't core to their business, and the management think that if they're running Windows on their desktop PC, everything else must be Windows as well - after all, you can't get a computer from IBM to talk to one from Fujitsu now[1], can you?). Well and good if you're selling your phone to management at such companies.

    But I don't think that's what Microsoft aim to do. The iPhone was probably the first smartphone with real consumer appeal, and if you walk into any UK phone store today you'll see that 80% of the phones they're really pushing are, to a greater or lesser extent, smartphones. Plain old mobile phones without all the smart functionality are being pushed almost exclusively onto Pay as you Go customers and those on a very low budget - two years from now, I reckon a non-smartphone will be as easy to find on the high street as a non-cameraphone is today. My guess is that Microsoft want a piece of that market.

    [1] Note for younger /.'ers : Way back in the mists of time, interoperability between computer systems was almost unheard of. You bought the computer from Company X, who also sold you a bunch of other peripherals which connected using proprietary interfaces. Even if you could somehow hook the tape drive from one manufacturer's computer up to another, you'd likely have a hell of a job getting useful data out of it. If you had any sort of networking, it also was proprietary. Standards? What are they?

  10. I'll be brave and fess up.... by Bad+Mamba+Jamba · · Score: 5, Informative
    I own one of those 40k units - a Samsung Focus to be specific. I've waited a year for MS to get Win7 out so I could compare iOS, Android, and Win7 before upgrading my phone. I have to say, after 2 days so far I love Win7. I will also say that feature wise it is still behind iOS and Android on some pretty basic features. More on that in a sec.

    We all have different needs and wants from our devices so to help you understand my angle; I am an occasional business traveler who enjoys being connected to email, can access maps and driving directions, restaurant and business information nearby, read various Office documents, and generally stay in touch. I am also a hobby programmer and enjoy writing little utility apps for my personal use. I am not a heavy app downloader - my iPhone had all of 20 installed apps. I am a gamer but generally enjoy puzzle and strategy games over FPS or other games that demand heavy real-time input. I do not own an XBox (PS3 for me). I do not use Facebook or Twitter in any real capacity. I tried, and I just don't get it. And finally I am a HUGE music lover. I'm the guy that still buys CDs for the artwork and rips them at higher bitrates. I'm always on the lookout for something new. I also rip all of my DVDs (movies and TV) so I can take them on travel and watch them on the plane.

    If you picked up on the iPhone comment above your first question might be why I considered defecting? The simple answer is iTunes. I've had many minor glitches and nags with iTunes over the years, however the recent move of my music and movie library to a NAS was so painful it was the last straw for iTunes.

    So what's to like about Win7?

    • First and foremost Win7 was really easy to learn and figure out. Navigation was a little mystifying at first, but after a few minutes I had it figured out. Within a couple of hours I had the whole phone explored and setup. And setup was also MEGA easy.
    • One word - ZUNE. Unlike iTunes it was easy to setup, let me import anything I want, and I love the subscription service. I had Zune on my PC before I had any kind of mobile Zune player. Unlike iTunes, I get my music through Zune in MP3 format, and I'm free to use it how I want. I'll also add it's visually a nice experience. The experience translates to the Win7 phone just as well. Oh and that setup problem I had with iTunes. Zune was more than happy to adjust itself to my music library on my new NAS without bitching. I'll also add the Zune SW multitasks better - iTunes tends to get sluggish and freeze up if you're importing movies or a lot of music. Zune seamlessly handles it in the background.
    • WIRELESS SYNC - something Apple has continually blocked. I'm happy to say if my phone is plugged in for 10 minutes on AC power and sees my Zune server it will sync over 802.11.
    • Mobile Office - an essential for me as my biz is an MS shop. Online versions of office are available through Windows Live so you don't even have to buy a PC version of Office if you don't want to. No clue if it will work on Mac tho.
    • 4" AMOLED - actually more the phone than Win7 but I'll say Win7 makes full use of the this gorgeous screen
    • It works well as a phone.
    • Voice commands - I feel silly talking to my phone but when I'm driving and I want to find a Starbucks or something it actually works well. Disclaimer - I am an American, and I speak with a "Hollywood accent" which is to say most people would say I don't have an accent.
    • Support for my work calendar off Exchange, AND a Windows Live calendar so I can keep my personal and work lives separate. Not necessarily unique to Win7 but they did a beautiul job integrating everything together.
    • Free development tools that work really well. I did C/C++ development for many years, then I did Java for a few years, and I've been doing C# for a while now. When I can just download the free tools and write an simple application in a few minutes that speaks volumes. As far as I'm concerned MS still makes the best develop
  11. Re:key differentiators by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Funny

    I left my Windows Phone 7 in my unlocked car yesterday, with the windows rolled down, hoping someone would steal it. When I came back to my car, someone had left a second Windows Phone 7 next to it!