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Space-Time Cloak Could Hide Actual Events

An anonymous reader writes "My first thought was, a hypothetical space-time invisibility cloak? That must be what hypothetical crime-fighting Einstein wears when he wades into the fray! Sadly, the researchers who thought up this trick to 'hide events' say that the metamaterials we have on hand will only allow for a nanoscale demonstration at best."

36 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. RE: post by alphatel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I will post my reply using my spacetime browser but you won't see it until several nanoseconds later!

    --
    When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
  2. Re: post by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2, Informative
    Congrats :-)

    I tried the same thing, but I must have broken one of my many mirrors...

  3. Minkowski you bastard by Adambomb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    mwahaha! if i'm never a part of events intersecting the light cone i dont exist!

    oh shiii-

    --
    Ice Cream has no bones.
    1. Re:Minkowski you bastard by Pawnn · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're making never leaving the house sound wayyy too scientific!

  4. Re: post by JustOK · · Score: 4, Funny

    all fine until the spacetime moderators show up.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  5. Re: post by Cwix · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ooooo how do I get that type of mod points?

    --
    You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  6. Re: post by Stingray454 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Indeed, things usually take a turn for the worse when a pissed of Jean Claude Van Damme comes knocking on your door.

  7. Re:Ffs by JustOK · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe we just can't see the ones that get it right.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  8. How not to be seen . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The seminal work on this was produced in the UK in the late 60's or early 70's, and shown on the PBS network in the USA, who frequently interrupted the program to beg for money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Not_to_Be_Seen

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:How not to be seen . . . by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They need to up date it to: "How to not be where you are."

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  9. Re:Hiding things? Isn't that the point of invisibl by Jojoba86 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Clicking through to the CNN article tells us:

    "A safe cracker would be able, for a brief time, to enter a scene, open the safe, remove its contents, close the door and exit the scene, whilst the record of a surveillance camera apparently showed that the safe door was closed all the time,"

    So it's a way of hiding something in time, without anyone really knowing anything is being hidden.

  10. Better article by ath1901 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I found another article about the article which makes more sense: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/44320

    There is a chicken and car analogy that should appeal to the crowd here:

    An analogy, says McCall, is a chicken crossing a busy road. Once the chicken steps onto the road cars must stop to let it pass, but as soon as it leaves the other side the cars would accelerate to catch up with the traffic ahead. To an observer farther down the road, the stream of passing cars would display no evidence of having slowed down.

    So, there is no magical disappearing of time or events or 4D cloaking of spacetime. That's just bullshit from some journalist who doesn't understand what spacetime or 4D means... Not more than a recorded tv program is cloaking space time.

    1. Re:Better article by ath1901 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ok, so here's my personal rant:
      Why are all the non-linear optics experiments ALWAYS misinterpreted as having something to do with spacetime or relativity?

      A optical black hole is NOT a black hole. It's a piece of glass. Radiation from such an optical black hole is NOT Hawking radiation . It just happens to have the same explanation.

      Just because light in a vacuum "happens" to travel at the fastest possible speed ("the speed of light" = c) doesn't mean that when light is slowed down, the maximum speed is somehow slowed down. Spacetime is completely unaffected by the bending/stretching/slowing down of light. You CAN travel faster than the speed of light in a piece of glass but you CAN NOT travel faster than the theoretical speed limit known as "the speed of light" / c.

      Light isn't special. It is just another particle (photons). It doesn't affect spacetime in any way except by the gravitational force which happens to be tiny since it is so light (pun not intended).

    2. Re:Better article by locofungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, there is no magical disappearing of time or events or 4D cloaking of spacetime.

      It's slightly more subtle than that. IIUC, it's impossible to detect something happening in the cloaked region of space. So in the chicken crossing the road scenario, to an outside observer, it looks like the cars travel at a constant speed and the chicken "magically" teleports from one side of the road to the other.

      The idea that something is in one state or another without being able to detect intermediate states is not new to physics. If you attempt to "watch" the transition between two eigenstates you will always measure one state or the other. We can have a mathematical model of how the wave function evolves, we can do experiments that demonstrate that the wavefunction must have been in a state that our mathematical model describes as a superposition of eigenfunctions, but we can never measure that superposition.

      In QM terms, I suppose the chicken would be described as "tunneling across the road"

      (note that I have no reason to suppose there is any relationship between 4d cloaking and QM tunneling - it's merely an analogy that came to mind)

      Tim.

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    3. Re:Better article by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      However it is logically demonstrable that time does not exist. For time to exist, the present is the infestimally small sliver between the past and the future, so infinitesimally small as to logically be zero, the past of course no longer exists and the future is yet to exist, hence for time to exist the universe can not.

      Sounds oddly similar to Zeno's Dichotomy Paradox. Thanks to calculus, the issue has been solved.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    4. Re:Better article by MadKeithV · · Score: 3, Funny

      Time is an illusion.
      Lunchtime doubly so.

    5. Re:Better article by uglyduckling · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yup, and in fact the integer 1 is the infinitesimally small sliver between the infinity 0..1 and 1..2, so logically 1 does not exist. Therefore, logically, nothing exists.

    6. Re:Better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      500 BCE called, they want their arguments back. ;)

    7. Re:Better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sup dawg, I heard you like to talk about time as a continuous function,
      so I put a plank length in your spacetime, so you can quantize your time measurements

    8. Re:Better article by AstrumPreliator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Light isn't special. It is just another particle (photons). It doesn't affect spacetime in any way except by the gravitational force which happens to be tiny since it is so light (pun not intended).

      A photon (most likely) does not have mass. Although, interestingly enough, it does have momentum. It is affected by gravity, such as passing by a star, because spacetime is curved and the photon is merely following a geodesic (generalized notion of a straight line through curved space)..

    9. Re:Better article by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Time does indeed exist. It is the measure of entropy.

    10. Re:Better article by ultranova · · Score: 2, Funny

      So you're saying that the chicken crossed the road to keep from disrupting the space-time continuum and ending the universe as we know it?

      Well... Nobody's ever seen a chicken cross the road to prevent the apocalypse. I think that's evidence enough.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  11. Re:Hiding things? Isn't that the point of invisibl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought a safe cracker was one without tuna.

  12. And may I be the first to say by boogersniffer500 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll believe it when I don't see it!

    1. Re:And may I be the first to say by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      And I'll believe it when I haven't had the experience I had.

      You heard me!

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  13. Re:Ffs by delinear · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Even though it's a joke it's probably not far from the truth. A dry scientific explanation is never going to make front-page on the millions of blogs, while "INVISIBILITY CLOAK NOW MONTHS AWAY!" is a shoe-in (unfortunately). Of course, you also then get a subset of scientists overstating their case to garner exactly this response, which doesn't help matters at all.

  14. Re:Wasn't this an episode of Star Trek? by uglyduckling · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ahhh! So you spotted that massive plot hole in the Harry Potter films too ;).

  15. Re: post by Vernes · · Score: 2, Funny

    Reply to articles not yet created. -1 Reply to articles on websites not yet created -10 Reply to articles on websites on an internet not yet created -existence Erasure from existence is one hell of a ban.

  16. Re:Wasn't this an episode of Star Trek? by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do you think after the second book they no longer care which house wins. Griffendorf keeps on getting a bunch of points taken away do to slipping accidents in the girls dorms.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  17. Re:Ffs by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The first question I had is how they are going to speed light up beyond the speed of light? I know it's theoretically possible for that to happen around gravity wells from black holes as they drag actual space-time around the event horizon, but how would they do this with a piece of fabric regardless of the machinery embedded in it?

  18. Re:Ffs by LordLimecat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Light isnt sped up going around black holes, though it is red-shifted.

  19. P01st before the fr157 p0s7 by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 2, Funny

    You have to get a post before the fr1st p0st!

    --
    WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
  20. Re:Photon Mass by JustinOpinion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, in principle if photons had mass that could lead to something like dark matter.

    However, in practice we know this isn't the case. First of all, if photons had mass (and quantum mechanics as we understand is roughly correct), this would modify a whole slew of predictions in all kinds of bizarre ways (down to fundamental things like the number of particles we observe and the stability of matter). Basically, the only way to match all our experimental data is with a massless photon.

    Even beyond that, however, the measured distribution of dark matter (which we can infer based on things like galactic rotation, gravitational lensing, large-scale structure in the universe, etc.) does not match the measured distribution of photons (which we can calculate based on the positions of known light-emitters, like stars).

    It's a neat idea, but appears not to be the case in our universe.

  21. Re:Ffs by DJRumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's all relative. Actually it is sped up, but not in the way you think. They've found that if a gravity well is strong enough, it actually pulls spacetime around it. If you were to shine a beam of light while based on spacetime that is moving, you in essence create a beam of light that is moving faster than the speed of light, at least for an observer standing on spacetime that is not moving.

  22. Re:Photon Mass by AstrumPreliator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If photons did have mass then they wouldn't be traveling the speed of light. The speed of light would still be a constant, but light wouldn't actually travel at that speed. As far as an alternative to dark matter, I'm not really qualified to answer that. According to wikipedia the upper bound for the mass of a photon is 1 x 10^(-18) eV/c^2 which is miniscule. For reference an electron has a mass of about .5 MeV/c^2. Considering dark matter is supposed to take up 80% of all matter in the viewable universe, I'd have to guess no. Like I said though, I'm not a physicist so take this with a grain of salt.

  23. Re:Photon Mass by locofungus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No - photons cannot account for the "missing mass". It's called "dark matter" because we know that it (whatever it is) does not interact with the electromagnetic force.

    Indirectly, we can experimentally confirm that photons have a rest mass of zero from the fact that unless EM is exactly inverse square then there would be an electric field inside a hollow conductor. (proving this is relatively straight forward for a perfect sphere - I understand that it can be proved for a general closed conductor but that's maths far beyond what I'm capable of)

    http://personal.rhul.ac.uk/UHAP/027/PH2420/PH2420_files/notes/04.pdf (page 6)

    Basically it's a galvanometer connected between an isolated conductor that is inside a closed conductor and the closed conductor. The conductor is then driven with a few kV at the resonant frequency of the galvanometer. Any deflection at all would indicate that EM isn't exactly inverse square and one possible explanation would be that photons do not propogate at c.

    However, any result like this would be so disruptive to all known physics that pretty much every physicist would assume that there was a fault with the experiment.

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.