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Rights Groups Slam UK Government for RIPA changes

tenori writes "Want to intercept internet traffic but have a pesky public consultation to get out of the way? Just keep the consultation period as short as you can get away with and exclude the people it affects. Rights groups are questioning why the coalition government has only allowed a month for changes to the RIPA act. The Home Office continues to refuse to meet civil society groups, saying, 'We are focusing on those parties directly affected by the changes to the extent that those parties would be subject to the civil sanction or directly concerned with it, or are directly responsible, where lawful interception is taking place, for ensuring that consent has been obtained to the interception.' The ORG said, 'In other words, the many thousands of people who have been adversely affected by illegal interception, and those who seek to stand up for their rights, are not "directly concerned" according to the Home Office.'"

43 comments

  1. Incompetent Bumbling office is incompetent: by Fluffeh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    News at 11.

    Seriously, is anyone really ever surprised these days to find that government/large organizations are 1) Incompetent at what they do, 2) Try to hide it and 3) There to really do as little as possible, with as little resistance as possible?

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    1. Re:Incompetent Bumbling office is incompetent: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Nope. I guess that's why this is on a news site and not a surprising facts site!

    2. Re:Incompetent Bumbling office is incompetent: by mabhatter654 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are HIGHLY competent at what they're doing... That's why they're doing this. They don't want "discourse" with the "subjects" they just want to clear things up with telcos, ISPs, and hardware makers to see if the Department has exposed them to any lawsuits.... and if so tweak the law so that the letter of the law matches current practice. In short this is most likely a CYA session, why would you want "civil rights groups" present while we're changing the law so we stop breaking it.

    3. Re:Incompetent Bumbling office is incompetent: by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      just a bit of feedback after being in contact with quite a few vendors of security products. If the information is private, it is encrypted, and it may be embedded with extraneous information (example merge a set of poems with your information, byte for byte, then compress and encrypt. If voice, use encrypted voice and vpn tunneling. If cell phone, use encrypted voice with algorithms that change keys every few time intervals. Only the naive use unencrypted communications.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  2. WHY? BECUZ THEIR BLEADIN IDIUTS !! THAT'S WHY !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Leave the gubment to the gubment and you be fine !! They knowz what be best fur I an you !!

  3. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm more than a little scared. Over the past year, I've read several dozen mentions of a government (usually US, UK, or Canada) where the government is working on internet monitoring and interception, usually with input from big corporations, like the RIAA, and no mention of anybody representing the public's or private citizen's rights or interests. Considering how many groups there are opposing them, I'm beginning to think a coordinated legal effort might need to be made by the internet community to make them allow others at the decision table, or to bring public attention and concern onto the matter because they've become so assertive and forceful.

    1. Re:Anonymous Coward by freedumb2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. When did you last see a citizens rights group (a real one, not a shill group for a corporation) partake in a major policy decision anywhere (i am german)? I thought so.

    2. Re:Anonymous Coward by digitig · · Score: 1

      What good would a legal effort do? They change the law so that what they do is legal. Unless it hits a constitutional issue, which it's unlikely to, then a legal challenge is pretty much doomed to fail.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    3. Re:Anonymous Coward by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      You are looking at it wrong. This has been going on for decades. Only now it is starting to come out in public, and the average person is finding out. They are NOT happy. You should be happy that the sleeping bear is waking up. A few more flips of voting idiots out of office might actually start to change things.

    4. Re:Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, here you go ACLU, EFF

    5. Re:Anonymous Coward by freedumb2000 · · Score: 1

      These are civil rights groups that will try and fight a policy change. When was it the last time you saw them be sourced for advice on policy drafting? If they were, that would be awesome and I would love to see an example.

    6. Re:Anonymous Coward by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Those in power have been absolutely terrified of any means of free (as in speech, not neccessarily beer) communication since more-or-less forever. You only have to look at the history of the printing press to see that.

      Usually some sort of compromise is thrashed out, and I'd be astonished if that didn't happen here. History has shown that some sort of attempt at control is more or less inevitable, the only question is "will it be subject to checks and balances or will it be a case of some unelected Internet Warden having the power to spy on whoever they like whenever they like for any reason they like?"

    7. Re:Anonymous Coward by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh we partook. The government set up a website where you could post your views about that kind of thing, and people used it. There were hundreds of mostly negative comments. There was even a separate petition.

      They ignored us.

      Consultation is a con. They have to do it but are under no obligation to listen to anything anyone said. It doesn't matter how long it takes because they have no intention of taking any notice anyway, unless you happened to give them "donations" or shoved your dick up the minister's arse back at public school.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Anonymous Coward by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or we could put the same amount of effort into encouraging people to use end-to-end encryption everywhere. Then they can intercept whatever they like, but the most that they'll get is the endpoints.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Anonymous Coward by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Consultation is a con. They have to do it but are under no obligation to listen to anything anyone said.

      That's because we citizens (at least Americans) are too busy consuming and being consumed to exercise their franchise. The last big election, the one with the supposed "Republican Tsunami" only 40 percent of the voters actually took the time to vote.

      An even more important franchise is the one where citizens actually show up whether it's in front of Congress or at the offices of elected representatives. I'm not saying it has to be done with pitchforks and torches, although that's an important option, but there's little as effective for influencing an elected official as a thousand people screaming for his attention.

      I happen to think the "Tea Party" is made up of stooges and rubes who are being manipulated to fight against their own best interests (at least the ones who aren't just drooling racists, which is a large plurality) but I have to give them credit for actually getting in the faces of their elected representatives. I hold out hope that at some point they will realize they are being played by the people in power to do their bidding. If that day ever happens, if they ever figure out who's really fucking whom, and if they are willing to put aside their bigotry for just a short while (which is asking a lot, I know) then they will be a real force to be reckoned with.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:Anonymous Coward by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      What good would a legal effort do?

      None. A legal effort is just a stall tactic until more serious and disruptive measures can be taken.

      I know that during this season of shopping and football I'm a minority voice, but I think it's long past the time for legal efforts. Now it's time for boycotts, strikes, disruption. They only thing that will get the attention of the tyrants now is a disruption of the profit stream.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:Anonymous Coward by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      You should be happy that the sleeping bear is waking up.

      If by "sleeping bear" you mean the anti-government teabaggers, you must be joking.

      It's as if the bear woke up, ran up to the hunter, took away his gun and then blew its own brains out. Never has there been a political movement so bent on fighting its own best interests. I guess sometimes there has to be this kind of catharsis, where a group of angry people rise up to shine the boots of their masters. It's great as theater, but it's not actually helpful to anyone but the most powerful.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  4. countries or cities, it's all the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We're facing the same sort of trouble down at the civic level here in Vancouver, Canada. City Hall has no interest in taking the opinions of the community and won't reveal any of the plans for the city. It seems to be the will of the mayor to do whatever is necessary to have Vancouver declared the World's Green Capital no matter what the citizens think of whatever changes are considered needed to achieve such a goal. He's been caught saying that he won't bother with public consultations any longer and all information from city hall now has to be got from a department called "Corporate Communications".

    SO we have totalitarian actions happening at all levels of government from the city to the country. Is anyone really surprised?

    1. Re:countries or cities, it's all the same by houstonbofh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      SO we have totalitarian actions happening at all levels of government from the city to the country. Is anyone really surprised?

      Lots of people are surprised. That is a good things because they are now starting to pay attention, and might even start to vote on actual issues.

    2. Re:countries or cities, it's all the same by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      Well, good luck with
      a) getting a chance to vote on any actual issues
      b) being allowed to see data (as opposed to heavily tweaked interpretations of data) in order to make a decision about a)
      c) having a fair vote casting process ( ie who gets to vote and how many votes they can cast )
      d) having the votes counted fairly
      e) having the result of the vote acted upon. ( ie if the totalitarian policy is unpopular and is voted down, keep having referenda on the issue until it finally scrapes through, enact it, then never have a referendum on that issue again)

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    3. Re:countries or cities, it's all the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, even if British people are surprised, they'll vote for the exact same shit with different colour branding. They call this process "accountability".

  5. I thought UK was a monarchy? by c0lo · · Score: 2, Funny
    Just nit-picking. TFA:

    [Terri Dowerty director at ARCHRights] ...added that the fact that there is not a 90 day consultation "sets a dangerous president and is a very depressing sign of the new Government, which promised transparency."

    Would a consultation of 120 days will still set a president that's dangerous?

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    1. Re:I thought UK was a monarchy? by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      I thought that a president was set for 4 years, sometimes 8.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
  6. M-O-N-E-Y by repetty · · Score: 1

    To borrow a lyric from The Fabulous Thunderbirds:

    How do you spell love?
    M-O-N-E-Y.

  7. They want to end network neutrality in the UK by arkhan_jg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Arghhggh. It's the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, or RIPA. It's not the RIPA Act but the RIP Act. It makes it sound like a bad slasher film. "Coming to a cinema near you - the most talked about horror film of a decade.... It's the Ripper Act."

    Back on topic; the Minister said:

    "We are focusing on those parties directly affected by the changes to the extent that those parties would be subject to civil sanction or directly concerned with it, or are directly responsible, where lawful interception is taking place, for ensuring consent has been obtained for the interception"

    So basically, they're talking to companies like BT, and Phorm, who broke the law in trialling deep packet inspection and altering (and recording) their web traffic without asking their customers permission. Companies they want to give the green light to, to use DPI to change how the internet works in the UK, throwing out network neutrality entirely, and relying on 'competition' in the UK to keep companies honest and not screw with customers traffic too badly for their own profit. The same competition that is now pushing 12, 18 or even 24 month minimum term contracts for broadband such that it's damn rare to find a 30-day rolling contract ISP any more.

    Of course they don't want to talk to people affected by these changes, or about their right to privacy. There's money to made in the private sector, and that's who they want to talk to, to eliminate the parts of the RIP act that actually protect individual privacy, and stop their personal data being sold off to the highest bidder. Can't be having that, now can we!

    --
    Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    1. Re:They want to end network neutrality in the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like you are not aware of RAS syndrome.

    2. Re:They want to end network neutrality in the UK by mr_jrt · · Score: 1

      Don't know what ISPs you're looking at, but every one I've seen has a monthly contract option. You usually have to pay a setup fee to cover BT's extortionate 'cut', but getting out is easy-as.

      --
      Boo.
    3. Re:They want to end network neutrality in the UK by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Competition doesn't work anyway but to even have it there has to be a choice for consumers. My choice is a barely working ADSL line that cuts out all the time and "delivers" about 2Mb down and 128Kb (!) up, or Virgin Media. I live in a major city on the south coast, about 2.2Km from the exchange.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:They want to end network neutrality in the UK by bedwards · · Score: 1

      The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 grants PUBLIC bodies the right to use covert means to spy on it's citizens - not private entities such as people or companies.

      Police organisations can use RIPA to bug, wiretap, intercept communications of whover they damn well please for crime prevention. Military organisations can do the same for national security.
      That won't change as long as government minsters know one huge terrorist incident in the UK will be the end of their careers.

      HMRC (the tax office) has the powers for Tax Evasion.
      Pretty much every government beuracratic department can use RIPA for spying on its citizens. The local councils use RIPA for everything from making sure people obey parking regulations, putting the right type of trash in the right type of bin, catching benifit cheats, making sure people do not cheat the education system by buying a house they will never live in within the catchment area of a good school.

      The real Interested parties are the large corperations that secrectly dispose of electronic waste as household waste to avoid rediculous disposal charges - whos senior management have a desire to try and park three mercedes down city residential roads where they have bought a cheap flat to remain empty to get their children into a good school because they are wealthy enough to - and they are wealthy enough to because they don't declare all their earnings to be raped by the tax man! - These people who can afford the best solicitors to get them off any charge of wrongdoing save one backed up by concrete evidence only organisations using the powers granted by RIPA can provide. These people also form the backbone of the paid up members of the Conservative Party - along with man small c conservitaves of the Liberal Democrats.

      If they had a long consultation period, they would have the socialists fighting them to keep RIPA as well as the civil rights campaigners getting their input. Better to have a short consultation period to allow the big companies to get rid of the powers to bring them to account nice and quietly.

      If you lost all faith in big business as a force for good... you can alwayse rely on them giving you freedom so they can do evil things to you :)

      just as a footnote - wikipedia does have a good article summarising RIPA

  8. Consultation? Hah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'll be lucky. The new government have explicitly stated to departments that they do not intend to consult, unless it can be quick and guarantees to back up the government position.

  9. Yeah righ by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The most recent elections elected the tea-party. That is the party that wants LESS government oversight on the banking industry, the financial industry and on oil companies. Because the bank collapse, the housing collapse and oil disaster in the gulf all happened because of to much government interference and not enough free market.

    I am not suprised goverments are reluctant to talk to voters. After all, they know the people that put them in power. Would you want to talk to someone who put the tories back in charge of the british economy? Why not just re-surrect reagan and thatcher and just kiss our asses goodbye.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Yeah righ by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      As for the banking/finance industry... I would have rather let them fail, and bottom out over the bail outs myself. Part of a free market, is letting failures happen. As to Reagan and thatcher, aside from the anti-communist extremism, I think he was one of the better presidents in the recent past.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    2. Re:Yeah righ by didroe84 · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the banks that failed were massive and would have taken the rest of the economy with them. You basically have a choice of regulating the size of the banks and letting them fail or removing regulation and potentially having to bail them out. Either way, an unadulterated free market won't work.

    3. Re:Yeah righ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the bank collapse, the housing collapse and oil disaster in the gulf all happened because of to much government interference and not enough free market.

      One reason why banks are so irresponsible is because of the FDIC. Customers can just dump their cash into whatever bank offers the highest interest rates without giving a damn whether or not the banks are taking unnecessary risks. That, in turn, only encourages banks to take as many risks as possible to jack up interest rates. The problem is that you can't just get rid of some regulations to sort out the mess. You have to get rid of all of them. Stop pretending that removing a few regulations equals deregulation.

    4. Re:Yeah righ by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Washington Mutual was not massive. And it was bought by Chase, which is massive, and did not need a bailout. But thank God that we saved the economy, and that it did so well after the bailout! ... What do you mean it got worse?

  10. Reminds me.. by SirThe · · Score: 1

    Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, anyone?

  11. RIPA? by srealm · · Score: 1

    The Raping Internet Privacy Act?

    1. Re:RIPA? by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      Fear the RIPA.

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
  12. ORG by Cederic · · Score: 1

    Thank you ORG - I'm delighted that the Open Rights Group are actively campaigning on this issue.

  13. Re:Yeah right by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

    Interestingly enough A survey of multi-millionaires asked that they be more heavily taxed. They felt that they were accumulating too much wealth and that the middle class and poor was being asked to pay for their undeserved benefits.

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  14. Re:Yeah right by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

    Interestingly enough A survey of multi-millionaires asked that they be more heavily taxed. They felt that they were accumulating too much wealth and that the middle class and poor was being asked to pay for their undeserved benefits.

    Citation needed... Asking George Soros is a survey of multi-millionaires... Just not a representative survey.