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BendDesk Merges Computer, Monitor and Desk
cylonlover writes "Researchers from Aachen University's Media Computing Group have created a computer workstation called the BendDesk where the desk and screen are transformed into one multi-touch display. The display is curved at the middle and uses infrared emitters and cameras to track user movement over the whole of the surface, which has its graphical user interface beamed onto it by a couple of short throw projectors hidden within its wooden frame."
Great. Now I can be disorganize on two planes!
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They need to work on the carpentry of the desk before they sell very many. It looks like something an eighth grader might construct. It looks like a programming project (measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with a chain saw). It definately needs asthetic attention.
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Looks cool, but without a keyboard (and a virtual keyboard is a lousy substitute), I wonder who this is really for. And if the screen is projected, will documents really be readable? A screen this big is either going to have a ridiculously high resolution, or it's just not good enough.
Let me guess... this will appear in the new TRON movie?
Now add to that merger a chair, toilet, and sex robot and you'll have office equipment that will really sell.
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Biggest gorilla arm ever!
I hope they don't merge the chair right in, otherwise we'll have to say problem is intermelded with chair, keyboard, and desk!
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It sounded good right up until
I realize it's a prototype, and more will be added, so I'm not gonna kvetch too much about it. But, to be useful, we need to be taking the resolution up to like 8000x8000 or more so it's like tiling a good monitor onto a huge area.
Still, the idea of my desk and monitor all being one big honking surface would be awesome. Although, it would have to be pretty durable to survive coffee, feet, and everything else that you need your desk for.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I never tried to type quickly on any touchscreen, but I am sure I can learn it.
I'd be more worried about no mouse. What if my task is to drag and drop stuff on the vertical part for 2 hrs (assuming I cannot automate the process)? Then I end up with my arm stretched in front of me for 2 hrs. I think I'll be tired before that time.
I've had the opportunity to play around with Microsoft's Surface and found it to be quite interesting. This looks like it would be better for daily use. The main problem I had with the surface is how uncomfortable it is to use in its standard configuration. Having a desk like this could allow for many cool interfaces, allowing us to get to a point where computers more easily provide help with daily tasks. This would be great for people doing design or research, where things both physical and digital are important to the process.
I wonder how are they supposed to cool the whole stuff? I just can't figure out what temperature could be into that box because of the projector...
This will be the most noisy desk ever.
Am I the only one who expected it to have a shiny metal ass?
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really!! no link to original source?
<rant>My stories get rejected even interesting and with source links </rant>
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It looks cool, but it seems like it will need to be cleaned almost daily from all the touching.
A touch-free interface seems like it will be the next generation interface.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
What happens when you want to upgrade your computer or display? Do you throw your desk out?
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Touchscreen rarely has the necessary responsiveness to enable you to type as you would on a keyboard.
Even writing this, I'm writing 10-15 characters a second, spread all over the keyboard, with only a tiny gap between each. My fingers know when to "bounce" up because they feel the button hit bottom. Touchscreen generally can't handle anywhere near that speed, accuracy, or tactile response (the biggest problem with even the most expensive touchscreens on public display - watch old grannies stab at the thing like it's a disobedient child because it just doesn't feel like the clicks are registering).
It won't work. Won't fly in schools (vertical surface = interference with eye contact and/or that they have to be placed only along the walls, mucky fingers, expensive hardware, etc.). Won't fly in business (two clunky and huge and expensive, RSI would be terrible working at something that physical for 8 hours a day). Won't fly in public kiosks (too pointless when a flat screen would do the same).
And to be honest, why does it have to be curved at all? It could just be two projected displays at right angles and nobody would care.
Doesn't anyone research prior art anymore? They hardly invented or discovered a new idea.
Try the IBM 7090 desk console.
Bad picture at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_7090
But if you google image search for it you'll find much cooler pix
Personally I always thought the 7090 was the pinnacle of gaudiness and I prefer the stylish neo-victorian look of the 701 series and the modern post WWII look of the System/370, which shows obvious stylistic cross pollination with ST:TOS. But to each their own.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
when undergoing special activities as it "uses infrared emitters and cameras to track user movement over the whole of the surface,"
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This still looks worse than the desk computer from the ORIGINAL Tron movie!
And to be honest, why does it have to be curved at all? It could just be two projected displays at right angles and nobody would care.
According to TFA, or TFV, it seems easier to drag documents across when it is curved. Your finger doesn't get stuck in the corner.
RSI would be terrible working at something that physical for 8 hours a day
I think the opposite would be true. Working at something like that all day might be tiring, but it would be much less repetitive than the tiny, continuous movements imposed on us by keyboards and mice. I think the variation in movements, and the much larger movements, using large muscle groups as well as small muscles, would result in exertion that is much more similar to the work that people did prior to the information age. Not as strenuous as, say, farming, of course, but about as varied.
I also suspect that if you worked at something like that all day, not only would you not have repetitive stress injuries, but you'd build significant upper body strength and endurance. Nothing like lifting weights or doing hard labor, but I think you'd be stronger and more toned than the typical office worker today. That could be a good thing!
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I never tried to type quickly on any touchscreen, but I am sure I can learn it.
It'll never be the same, though. You don't get the tactile feedback that you get from a real keyboard.
I'd be more worried about no mouse. What if my task is to drag and drop stuff on the vertical part for 2 hrs (assuming I cannot automate the process)? Then I end up with my arm stretched in front of me for 2 hrs. I think I'll be tired before that time.
Good point. The screen/desk/whatever it is is clearly made for dragging stuff. But how ergonomic is it to do that for a long time?
On the other hand, teachers seem to be quite able to draw on a vertical blackboard for a long time.
I think you can get similar or better results (using less money and time) with just wiimote and projector. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s5EvhHy7eQ starting from 2:15 to see what i mean.
Why type when you'll probably be able to swype! Sorry, not trying to plug a specific tech - just wanted to point out that there are alternative techs to the traditional finger press keyboard. Another option would be to add an inking area to allow for pen input (handwriting may be slower, but most of us know how to do that at a moderate speed).
Why two panes? I want ONE pane slightly tilted. Just like the ancient book stands, writing tables, etc. People were ergonomic in the middle ages, but apparently this knowledge is long lost, so we type down, look front and point somewhere right nowadays. Why? I want to look where I type and where I point. There, that wasn't hard, was it? That is an ergonomic solution. Not a digital reproduction of the torture apparatus that is still basically a 60's teletype terminal with a rodent attached.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
...and they want their gorilla hand syndrome back. As the makers themselves admit, completely lacking any ergonomy ("users tended to separate the vertical and horizontal planes and avoid using the curve as much as possible."). Working with your hand(s) above heart level is tiresome, for reasons entirely physiological - there's plenty of research for that, but we geeks just tend to dismiss it as NIH and assume "we know better", don't we? It's a very cool toy project, yes - but utterly impractical.
I can see it now. Come into work and no desk. Why? Monitor repair, system upgrade, scratched screen, adding pen capabilities, or whatever.
Also, is it just me, or does the prototype look like a control panel from an old nuclear reactor or other industrial facility? Oh well, guess it is just a prototype.
... Starfire, a project by Bruce Tognazzini from 1992 when he was working at Sun. (He had previously been the founder of the Human Interface Group at Apple.)
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Yes, I want a desk surface that I should not eat on, put heavy items (stapler, phone, stack of 100 DVDS).
Yes, I want to pay all that extra money for an under the desk system that projects things onto a clear, fragile screen instead of simply using moding a Kinect or even the ThinkGeek Bluetooth Laser Virtual Keyboard that I place on top of a regular desk.
The only good thing about this idea is giving me a huge screen, like the movies/tv shows always have hackers using.
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So let's say they solve the problem of it looking like some kid made it in shop class, you still have the really big problem of all the space needed behind the desk for the projecting. Granted the picture with the article might not be drawn to scale, but it looks like it would take about 1/2 the floor space in my cubicle and that I would also lose two of my wall shelves, definitely not a trade I would consider making...
Put a handle somewhere and call it 'Portable'
In the first place, it's probably designed so that moving your hand would equal moving a mouse. In the second place, painters, sculptors, carpenters, electricians, all sorts of folks use their arms like that all the time. Unless you're handicapped it should be no problem.
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I've already merged with my chair, so this works out perfectly for me.
If you think that there is something horribly wrong with the way we currently interact with computers, you are wrong.
And if your new paradigm involves getting rid of the keyboard and mouse (trackball, pad, whatever) combo, you have missed the problem so completely that you aren't even wrong any more. Hint: more precision is desired, not less.
I can see this device being useful for a few certain specialized tasks, but not for general computing, and certainly not for any of the examples they listed.
Oh, and if you think that in the future we'll deal with computers the way they did in Star Trek or Minority Report, you think that because some director thought that it would look cool on screen. If Star Trek was real, characters in their movies would have to deal with swatting at glowing balls of light or whistling or something equally stupid so that it would look futuristic and cool by comparison to their crappy dynamic touchscreens.
See that "Preview" button?
Touch screen overlays, including capacitive multi-touch have been around for a while.
Aside from a curvy bit, what does this add?
Just bolt on more/larger monitors and put a touch overlay on them, made of glass if you want to rest your hands on it.
underneath your clothes
Where does work get done these days?
Who is going to throw out all their existing office table and equipment?
How much will it cost?
How do you deal with meetings, work outside the cubicle, out of the office, at job sites, etc.?
There is a reason laptops have risen to the top of the heap.
Laptops are UNIVERSALLY usable.
It probably wouldn't be hard to move that task to the lower plane instead. Also I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to plug a keyboard in and have it sitting on your interactive desk. Seriously, did a touch-screen touch Slashdot as a child or something?
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
It'll never be the same, though. You don't get the tactile feedback that you get from a real keyboard.
Yet.
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Iirc, there is research on electrical surfaces that can simulate even something like dragging fingers over fur.
Haptic feedback research is big stuff these days.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
An L-shaped interface has obvious restrictions on how it can be reconfigured.
The photo of the guy in the white t-shirt shows him reaching ahead at full stretch, and in the article they note testers suffered from muscle fatigue. Not surprising. Clearly the guy is at full stretch, reaching too far. Their prototype would benefit from a couple of hours consultancy with some industrial / furniture designers. Probably the guys in the next corridor down at the university. How you make this work for a range of people to sit at, rather than stand at, for tall and short, now that might be more tricky. Sitting down close to the edge of the desk, my comfortable / optimal arm reach might be X cms, while I can imagine a short person and a tall person might vary by +/- 10cm centimetres difference easily. Not sure how designers would deal with making suitable for a whole range of people sizes.
But I completely approve of university folk experimenting, if they can't, where can this stuff be tested out?
Had to be said.
But will it run Linux?
> It'll never be the same, though. You don't get the tactile feedback that you get from a real keyboard.
Mod parent up.
This is the reason a "driving wheel + computer sim" is never close to the real thing. You don't FEEL the G's around a corner, feel when your tires are "about" to lose traction, etc. That said, I love racing sims. ;-)
I have used a similar system and I found it indeed quite straining to drag stuff over longer distances for prolonged periods of time. The major issue, though, was not moving stuff within one surface but dragging items up from the horizontal to the vertical surface. It requires a very uncomfortable turning of the hand along the way to get over the curve. So it is not really suited for dragging objects around en masse.
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This reminds me of Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, there were desks like that there.
We had consoles and keyboards built into desks back to at least the seventies, maybe earlier. I think the reason it didn't do well back then is that forklift upgrades are so expensive.
That said, it's an interesting idea, but I wonder how this differs from having a Surface (or something similar) and a couple of big monitors acting in concert? (Anyone see the Hawaii 50 reboot?)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Nice, but their own tests demonstrate that the curved part between the horizontal and vertical planes is worthless. Better to just use two separate flat-panel touchscreen displays. Better picture, don't have to worry about legs blocking projectors, and probably a lot cheaper. Plus, after using keyboards for the last 30 years, I'd rather have a real keyboard.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I think many of your questions can be answered by "it's a prototype, those things can be changed". Personally, I think it'd work better paired with a mouse (for fine control) and keyboard (for fast text entry and some controls), and keep the touch features for the large motions. Having a large surface and being able to drag two things around at once to sort them seems potentially very useful - maybe not as much in the actual sample app they showed, but for certainly for art. It'd probably fit well into other programs, too; maybe do the drawing portion of UML by hand, quickly, and then type in the guts with a keyboard. And the large screen surface is useful in general.
Eye contact, placement, and size are already huge problems with computers in schools. Even in a college classroom full of laptops it's a problem (try fitting book, notebook, and laptop on a little desk at the same time). The prototype looks like it could be a lot smaller, though, and a school version might have a half-sized vertical portion and rely more on the horizontal area. Business use ties into my other thoughts on killer apps; design, flowcharts, spreadsheets - get anything like that to really leverage the touchscreen, and businesses will want a few of them.
Expensive hardware is an "I don't know" at this point, since it's a prototype, but it looks like a mass production version would be feasible. Projectors and camera sensors have gotten a LOT cheaper over the last decade, and they're still dropping. And this replaces the desk and one or more large expensive monitors, so its price may not actually be as high as it seems.
RSI was addressed elsewhere (small repetitive motions cause it, large infrequent motions don't). Public kiosks aren't an issue, IMO more because there's no need for this than due to it being incapable of handling the task. (and the problem there wouldn't be size or shape, it'd be that they'd have to be usable by standees, who are all different heights...).
The curve was so your hand could slide along the whole thing. On top of that, a gap would be wasted visual space, and a right angle join would require you to reach further away. Because it's using projectors, the curve doesn't make it any harder to make.
I would add my own complaint - that the screen resolution seems kinda low - but I think that's per projector, and it's the sort of thing that could be increased. Since it's projected, I'd also wonder how it handles being in a brightly lit room - does glare on the screen make it hard to see?
this was done by Sun Microsystems in a demo movie in 1992. The movie is called Starfire, here is a link to it on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhe1DFY-SsQ
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painters, sculptors, carpenters, electricians, all sorts of folks use their arms like that all the time. Unless you're handicapped it should be no problem.
But those people have more flexibility in the way they work on the vertical surface. They don't have to sit on a seat at a fixed distance. They can walk right up to the thing they are working on and get their arms in a comfortable position. Even painters can lean in close when they need to. Few of them work sitting as low as I would type for example.
If I had to sit at a fixed distance I might start to get injuries from overuse.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
So it's Microsoft's Surface with a bend in it? Wonder if it will have the jaw dropping price Surface does.
Back when Sun was still swimming in money (i.e., a long time ago), Sun "envisioned" exactly this and made a video about it. Backprojected displays and camera-based touch interfaces also already existed back then (imagine that).
I didn't see then what this gives me over monitors and keyboards, and I still don't. It's less modular, bulkier, harder to move, and less functional than what I have now. And a ton more expensive.
Saw this in a future tech concept video from Sun about 15 years ago. In their's you could lay out a page face down, rub the back of it and the desk would scan it...
And to be honest, why does it have to be curved at all? It could just be two projected displays at right angles and nobody would care.
Actually, your fingers (and arms) move in arcs more naturally than they do in a more box-like shape, so this would make it easier to move virtual objects around, just like it says on the video.
Uppoer body strength isn't going to do it. Gorilla Arm Syndrome will quickly set in, for virtually everybody. In fact, it's kind of like a punishment my mom used to give me when I was a kid, except with encyclopedias piled on.
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I'd be aching (aachen?) too, if I had to bend over that desk all day!
With two more walls/screens, it could become the cubicle of the future.... wait, make it four walls, I don't want to be interrupted while working.
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You know the story:
Client commissions you to build a car with an entirely new, experimental engine design. You mould a basic shape to test the transmission, engine performance etc.
When you demonstrate the prototype to be sure you're building the right thing, all the client can say is "I was expecting the shifter to be in chrome".
Argh!
Mod parent +1 creaive use of a car analogy.
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This is the reason a "driving wheel + computer sim" is never close to the real thing. You don't FEEL the G's around a corner, feel when your tires are "about" to lose traction, etc. That said, I love racing sims. ;-)
In spite of all this, a force feedback wheel is an ENORMOUS improvement. The closer you get to the real thing, the more of your reflexes you get to use. The first time I did the scandinavian flick on my Driving Force wheel on good old Gran Turismo 2 I got a little giddy.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What about draftsmen and engineers before we had computers? Drawings, sketches, blueprints?
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I like the idea. But I think it would be tiring to use. IMHO a better way to handle the display would be with an touch area that mapped to the full screen.
The other thiing I would I like as an option is variable geometery. Either items get smaller as you move them closer to the edge. Makes it easy to find parked documents. Or items get larger as they get further from your eyes.
If these become popular programmer interfaces need a couple mods.
Even with two screens I have times when an application pops up a modal window on the other screen, and the app freezes until I notice it. If you have mouse focus raise enabled, you can bury the modal window unintentionally.
Interfaces need to require that a modal window appear on top of windows that they block, or at least near by. And a hot key that says "hide all windows not belonging to the currently focused app" could be useful.
10-15 characters a second? Really? that puts you at 120-180 words/min (based on standardized typing testing). That's faster than most professional typers type....
My wife has a drafting board right here. Its flat and you can reach over it. More like a tilted table in that you can rest your elbows on it or lean close to the drawing. This L shaped thing can't be used the same way.
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This L shaped thing can't be used the same way.
That sounds like a huge drawback to me. maybe they'll correct that dificiency in the second iteration.
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