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Digging Into the WikiLeaks Cables
A number of readers have sent in new WikiLeaks stories today, many of which focus on the content of the leaked diplomatic cables. The documents showed how the US government bullied and manipulated other countries to gain support for its Copenhagen climate treaty (though behavior from the US wasn't all negative), how copyright negotiations largely meet the expectations of critics like Michael Geist, and how Intel threatened to move jobs out of Russia if the Russian government didn't loosen encryption regulations. Perhaps the biggest new piece of information is a list of facilities the US considers 'vital to security.' Meanwhile, the drama surrounding WikiLeaks continues; Julian Assange's Swiss bank account has been frozen and the UK has received an arrest warrant for the man himself; the effort to mirror the site has gained support from Pirate Parties in Australia, in the UK and elsewhere; and PayPal was hit with a DDoS for their decision not to accept donations for WikiLeaks.
...don't seem to understand that the takedown of Wikileaks is a triumph of world government. It's literally the new world order responding to a threat and removing it. And they're cheering it on...
Here's hoping that doesn't happen. If it does, I look forward to that insurance file.
I'd really like to comment on this but I afraid of the consequences. I'd like to work someday and possibly travel to the US. I'd rather just pretend I don't know what's happening. Besides, none of this really affects me. It's about the past and from where I stand today nothing from any of the actions they have taken has changed my life in any way. At least now yet.
[J]
I kind of wish I was in a psychology course during all this...it would be interesting to examine the reactions of governments and officials to Assange. Some of the response seems like its been ripped straight from a movie or book, with thinly veiled attempts at painting the man as a terrorist. The strength of the rhetoric seems directly proportional to the level of embarrassment groked from different leaked cables.
Living With a Nerd
I'm waiting to read the news "Julian Assange has been arrested"
I think it is more likely we will hear about his tragic fatal auto accident, or suicide by 41 self administered hammer-blows to the head.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
For me both this and the Afghan war wikileaks showed that journalism is working again. It seems that after the failures that led to Iraq the media really is doing a better job. Most everything in the leaks was rumored. Also its nice to see the USA is doing pretty much what it claims to be doing. Of course what's also interesting is no one is even attempting to deny these facts. Wikileaks has become the most reliable source we have on many topics. The government freak out is just what corporate America and then consumer America had to deal with a 15 and 10 years ago. Welcome to the internet age.
The most interesting topic is what this reveals about Pakistan and Afghanistan. Its time to level with everyone involved and I hope the congress has a vigerous debate about Afghan policy this time around.
Wikileaks didn't release anything, they published information that was released to them by someone else. It should be noted that there has never been a case of someone successfully being prosecuted in the US for publishing leaked documents. The leaker, the one who actually violated an oath and removed those documents and gave them to someone else, that person should be punished. I wouldn't even argue against a treason case being brought against him or her. But trying to punish what is essentially a journalist, publishing information received from a source, is a very, very slippery slope for the US to start down.
The first real infowar has started. Who knew that it'd be governments vs. the people?
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
"copyright negotiations largely meet expectations" is misleading. More like, "confirm that the US has been bullying other countries into changing their laws to suit US interests".
More importantly, it was only Pfc. Bradley Manning who leaked the information (and thus broke any applicable laws). Julian Assage/Wikileaks only published it afterward.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Tell them that you support Wikileaks and that you want answers about what the cables reveal the US Goverment is doing. That what the US is doing against Wikileaks in response to this is wrong and unAmerican. The response by the US Government is embarrassing.. it confirms that we really do all of these backhanded actions that the cables say.
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
I haven't been on the 'Wikileaks is a terrorist organization' bandwagon, understanding that it's important that crimes not be covered up. However, when I read earlier today about the leak of the list of vital US facilities, I had to wonder just what they're thinking. I honestly can't figure out how the release of that benefits the public in any way. Yet it provides information that anyone seeking to harm the US would find quite valuable.
I don't think information should be made public for the sake of making it public. There are some things that are better off kept secret.
Is the fact that for the first time in my life, I am literally afraid of my Govt if I go to see a website and that I fully expect to be traced, put in a database, and labeled as some subversive. For going to a web address.
Former UK Foreign Secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind said WikiLeaks' actions were "verging on the criminal".
Since when do we arrest people for doing things that are almost illegal?
It'd be nice if Julian could WikiLeak his own sexual assault information. As far as I've seen he's said it's a frame job but admits having sex with two women. Why not just have this out in the open and not leave people worried that backing WikiLeaks is backing a rapist?
Why would anybody be surprised that the USA bullies or manipulates other countries for its own benefit? Its what any top power has done, and what any aspiring power wants to do.
Considering the US is the richest, mightiest, most powerful and most influential country in the history of world, its more of a surprise it hasn't used more of its powers to control the world. The rest of the world should be glad the United States is such a benevolent power and overall force for good in the world.
"In the history of the world?" Uh, how are you measuring that? I can think of at least three other Empires that, by any reasonable standards, have exercised far more control over a far greater geographic area.
I think that most parts of Central and South America have a very different view of the US's benevolence than you do. We have a sixty plus year history down there of overthrowing democratically elected leaders that our corporate overlords don't like. We don't just meddle to spread democracy, we also meddle to protect our economic interests. At the barest whiff that some country in our sphere of influence might be thinking about nationalizing anything, we send in the CIA and military advisers at the very least.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Everyone with any knowledge of history.
Amazon doesn't own Paypal, eBay or Skype. eBay owns Paypal, but no longer controls even a majority of Skype. Skype is also in the process of being completely spun off with it's own IPO.
The fact that the US has as much on them, if not more, as they have on the US. Balance of power, mutually assured disclosure, if you excuse the pun.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
As seen with East Germany, in the end the Government can't win over a determined people. Just a question as to whether the people will wake up in time while there is still something to save. ...
How long until the US People remember the constitution and their founding fathers' courage and ideas! Get up and let your "representatives" know how you feel about the "Great Chinese Firewall" and censoring of websites in the US
So you ever have candid conversations with coworkers, friends, your spouse and so on about other people? Conversations where you drop pretense, say what you really think, what you really mean. Do you find that these conversations are often beneficial? Now, would you still have that same kind of conversation if you know it would be given, verbatim, to the person(s) you were talking about?
There you go then.
As an example when we get a new student in at work, I've explained to them on various occasions when they were going to be dealing with someone who was an asshole, or someone who is incapable of following simple directions, and so on. I couldn't have those conversations if the person was listening in. I mean there isn't any way I could let a student know they are dealing with an asshole, no matter how diplomatic I was the asshole would get mad. It is important that I can have a candid conversation with the students about this, it makes them able to do their job more effectively. But I couldn't do it if I had to record my conversations and hand them over to the parties involved.
Also it appears that Assanage doesn't want to acknowledge this. He was asked a very good, pointed, question in regards to this (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robertcolvile/100066669/is-julian-assange-a-coward-or-a-hypocrite/). Rather than provide a defense, give reasons why he feels that the good of his actions outweigh the harm, he just blows it off angrily because he doesn't like the question. Seems like he isn't willing to consider the consequences, the downside of his actions (all actions have a downside, everything has a cost).
If you publish, you're a journalist. You may not be a -popular- journalist, but a journalist none the less. What are the professional requirements for being a journalist? Nothing.
Bye!
A case recently where an American, Lawrence Franklin, leaked classified documents to Israel via AIPAC. He ended up with (from wikipedia) "On January 20, 2006, Judge T.S. Ellis, III sentenced Franklin to 151 months (almost 13 years) in prison and fined him $10,000 which Ellis later reduced to probation with ten months house arrest. The case was heard in United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia. Ultimately, Franklin was charged with unauthorized disclosure of classified information, not with espionage." He ended up pleading guilty. There was also major political pressure from donors to many politicians to encourage a light sentence.
every anarchist is a baffled dictator. Benito_Mussolini
This was an account with the Swiss Postal service (which also operates as a bank in Switzerland). Since he does not live (permanently) in Switzerland he should not have had an account to begin with so they closed it. He still has access to the funds he just can not accept anymore payments or transfers. I've taken and extended vacation in Switzerland and when I tried to open account (to avoid credit card fees from my US bank) I was told the exact same thing. I'm sure he can walk down to any of the commercial banks and open an account provided he meets the balance requirements.
You should note that Wikileaks redacts their releases and gets advice from more mainstream sources on what to redact. If that's as fringe as crashing planes into buildings, I really don't want to hear your opinions on any news source. Most of these docs are innocuous in any case. "Tell us about President so-and-so" is what most of them end up being.
SSC
For a great explanation of the idea behind WikiLeaks, please see this.
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
Governments, overall, are not innovative, and tend to make two mistakes. One to assume that the world still works as a zero sum game. With the advance of technology and the free market, this is no longer true. In spite of this governments still insist on using tools that assume the zero sum, such as war. Huge deficits have been built up over the past 10 years due to war expenditures at expense of the free market. Although private enterprises do thrive in war, these tend to be government proxies, such as Haliburton, rather than free agents.
The second thing governments do, which is more relavent to the current situation, is security through obscurity. At one time this was a reasonable endeavor, in our process oriented world it is not reasonable. Profit cannot be dependent on the arbitrage of knowing something a little before someone else knows it. Power cannot be maintained by simply keeping information from other people.
These are both pre-democracy pre-free-market ideals that are too long held by the elite. At most they want an ancient republic where only they hold power, and the majority is held hostage by the fact they do not have the secrets of power rather than a modern democracy where the freedom of information and commerce insure the most efficient use of resources so that the maximum number of people benifit.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
anything happens to assange, or his team, death, injury, arrest, all the information they have will come out uncensored, with names in it. all the operatives, double agents, moles, contacts of all secret agencies, will be out there in the open, uncensored, unremoved.
.... if you get the 'producers' reference.
wikileaks has been removing the names from the documents up till this point. if, anyone does something against him, it will be 'springtime with agents in middle east' or something
Read radical news here
My amateur psychologist impression is that many quoted officials are taking the "5 year old with tantrum" route. Slightly more refined than what terrible-two toddlers do, but still at kindergarten level. This is not meant as a snipe, but just an observation (not a flattering one of course, but no point in blaming mirror if face looks ugly).
I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
If you define "sexual assault" as consensual sex wearing no condoms, then you will have a lot of people to prosecute, including good part of government.
The silly part is that the prosecutors really went all out to push what flimsy case they had to the max... and came up with some weird interpretation of the law that says "having sex without a condom is illegal if you do not have the lady's consent signed in her own blood", or some such. A ridiculous, trumped up case even under Sweden's somewhat broad definition of rape/sexual assault. And for this he makes Interpol's most wanted list? Something smells awfully fishy....
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
I saw an interview with Steve Johnson in which he said at the end of his book _Where Good Ideas Come From: The Natural History of Innovation_ he attempted a survey of private vs. public sector innovation and concluded they're about even, or possibly government-funded ideas have a slight edge.
first, 'swedish police department' doesnt deal justice. they implement prosecutors' orders, which is a part of judiciary. just like in any country.
/. uids and log off from the site.
second, one prosecutor dropped the case, another prosecutor, mysteriously, DESPITE it has been out of its jurisdiction and already handled, reopened the case. then, they had issued a warrant for assange TO GET HIS TESTIMONY. not to arrest him, not to do anything else. but interestingly, despite they were obliged to contact assange by swedish law, and the exact location of assange was known to entire swedish judiciary, that prosecutor's office had opted out to VIOLATE swedish law, by not contacting assange. they just directly went to press, saying that we issued a warrant to have him come here and issue a testimony.
then, interpol took that, and turned that testimony warrant to an ARREST warrant.
in the meantime, fox news and all those other news channels in america, who are used to fool morons, has been pumping up 'rape' bullshit to morons. the morons who believed them of course.
and now today someone comes up saying that rape charges came out of swedish 'police department'. wow. judiciary in sweden, apparently changes day to day, by what bullshit fox serves americans.
the 2 idiots who modded you up, please hand in your
Read radical news here
The article seems to be detailing diplomacy as usual.
I hear this a lot, and I find it overly cynical.
Imagine an article describing someone being brutally murdered. Picture that this person is a black twelve year old male. Imagine now that this happened in the following places:
A) New York City
B) Mobile Alabama
C) Darfur
Which of those locations match the expectation, and which do not? Statistically the odds of violent death would vary by location, but would it ever simply be 'detailing business as usual'?
Because with the cables I think this is the most important part. Few people genuinely believed that the CIA was doing so much evil as grabbing completely innocent people and rushing them off to torture and interrogation, but here we have the cable confirming not only that this was true, but that we suppressed their investigation of it. That's MORE evil than the first accusation!
And what about being complicit in murder?? Does this genuinely shock no one?
IMHO: "A list of stuff that people can blow up if they want to screw with us", is something that legitimately deserves to be hidden from everyone but the guy dispatching people to guard that stuff.
The things in question aren't secret by any means. Anyone in the countries in question would know they're important infrastructure. For example, in Canada, they list stuff like our nuclear power plants (Which provide about half of Ontario's power and exports significant amounts to the northeast US), various bridges and international rail crossings, major border crossings, natural gas and oil pipelines (Lots of which connect to the US), several dams and hydroelectric plants, some mines (germanium, graphite, iron, niobium, and nickle), and various factories, including ones producing medical supplies such as vaccines (specifically polio and influenza), blood plasma, and weapon components, and the Chalk River nuclear laboratory, which produces about 1/3rd of the world's medical isotopes.
Basically anyone in Canada who sat down and thought about it for a bit would come up with most of those as places that would cause widespread disruption if you took them out of operation.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
It'd be nice if Julian could WikiLeak his own sexual assault information. As far as I've seen he's said it's a frame job but admits having sex with two women. Why not just have this out in the open and not leave people worried that backing WikiLeaks is backing a rapist?
Put what "out into the open" exactly, his penis? Unless he video-taped that time he had sex there is nothing for him to leak. I doubt he has the prosecutor's documents; he and his lawyer didn't actually know the details of the accusation until the Nov. 18th hearing for the international warrant, and I find it hard that the prosecutor would suddenly become forthcoming about this information. He offered to cooperate while he was there but the charges were "withdrawn". The Swedish authorities said they've been "trying to contact Mr Assange, but have not yet been able to" while Wiki-Leaks says "No-one here has been contacted by Swedish police". This would be an easy charge for the police to refute if they had made efforts to contact Wiki-Leaks.
In short I don't think the burden of proof here is on Mr. Assange. I think the burden of proof is on the Swedish Police and INTERPOL to explain why an organization usually reserved for mass murders and other war criminals is suddenly issuing a "Red Notice" for a suspected rape case, even before the appeals process in Sweden is exhausted.
Ummmm... the sexual assault wasn't against women, it was against the US government... and it really really hurt. and its still hurting and still ongoing. I can see Julian likes it slow....
I tend to agree. On the BBC news this morning some twerp was going on about how they've revealed the place where teh transatlantic intartubes enter the British mainland. Odd thing is, I'm pretty sure this was shown some time ago on an episode of the documentary series "Coast" - on the BBC[1].
Likewise mention was made of key pharmaceutical facilities. I'm sure these can be easily gleaned from such classified sources as Companies House, land registry, yellow pages etc.
Fact is, anybody who could actually be bothered to get off their arse and blow these things up is sufficiently motivated to find out where they are. There's precisely zero people willing and able to do it who's being thwarted by the inability to find out where the fucking hell the targets are. Anyone who says otherwise is a berk ,a liar, or a lying berk.
[1] I think it was somewhere in Cornw@i*(0h
k.
no carrier
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
He made it the list of potential candidates. Don't forget to rate him. It might make prosecuting him into oblivion a bit harder.
> I think the insurance is reserved for more extreme occurrences.
Like when he takes off for Sweden...and doesn't land there.