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Corporations Hiring Hooky Hunters

No longer satisfied with your crinkled doctor's note, a growing number of corporations are hiring "Hooky Detectives." Private investigator Rick Raymond says he's staked out bowling alleys, pro football games, weddings and even funerals looking for people using sick days. From the article: "Such techniques have become permissible at a time when workers are more likely to play hooky. Kronos, a workforce productivity firm in Chelmsford, Mass., recently found that 57 percent of salaried employees take sick days when they're not sick — almost a 20 percent increase from statistics gathered between 2006 and 2008."

85 of 610 comments (clear)

  1. Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilantes by elucido · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These corporate sociopath CEO's have enough money to hire private investigators to stalk us. They can come up with whatever excuse or have no reason at all. These investigators have the power to ruin marriages, friendships, careers.

    What can we do about the Gestapo America? BTW this article should be titled "Corporations hire professional stalkers to track employees outside of the workplace."

  2. Perhaps a structural solution would be better by slk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead of having to police sick days, a simpler solution would be to combine sick days and vacation days into "earned time off" or similar. Let the employee use the time as they see fit, no policing required, and you probably get better morale in the deal too.

    --
    ERROR: Null .sig, core dumped.
    1. Re:Perhaps a structural solution would be better by epiphani · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah, except that you get sick and you spend your entire time "off" in bed. I had that once and I hated it.

      If I'm sick, I'm told to stay home, and I'll happily try to do some work from there. If you tell me that I'll lose vacation time by staying home, I'm gonna come into the office short being unable to walk. Take your pick, which do you prefer?

      --
      .
    2. Re:Perhaps a structural solution would be better by oldspewey · · Score: 2

      I had a job once that had no paid sick days. I used to come in when I had a tearing head cold, infect the entire office, and sit at my desk accomplishing almost nothing at all for the 2-3 days it took for the cold to clear up.

      Two or three days later, nearby people would start to fall sick, and many of them did have paid sick days so they'd stay home until they felt better. Good deal for the company.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
  3. Why should your employer govern your behavior? by elucido · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why are we allowing employers to put us into neo-feudalism? Can't you see these employers are doing what government wants to do but can't get away with?

    1. Re:Why should your employer govern your behavior? by dpilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the real question is why are they so STUPID!!!

      I agree that there is a strong neo-feudalism movement afoot. I don't think it's any sort of conspiracy, it's merely that class of people doing the type of things that they are prone to do, and neo-feudalism is the logical end-game. But I still assert that it is STUPID, because serfs don't buy the company's products. Each company seems to have this idea that they can drive THEIR employees down into the dirt, and "somebody else" will buy their products, presumably other company's employees. But when all of the companies are doing this, the pool of "somebody else" dwindles. It's just not a sustainable model.

      I suspect that in the modern globalized world US companies expect that the growing middle class in the Far East will buy their products. But even if they can either eliminate every US worker or drive every US worker's pay down to 3rd world levels, their products will STILL have the overhead of an astronomically overpaid executive suite. What's worse is that the executive suite has generally grown addicted to cost reduction as the means of profit improvement. Most of them aren't worth spit in terms of bringing truly innovative products to market, improving the revenue side of the equation. (Reality distortion field aside, and though from everything I've heard he's a real prick, I have a strong sense of respect for Steve Jobs for just this reason.)

      Congress isn't doing spit about it because:
      1 - They won't cross their big donors.
      2 - Republicans tend to believe that the wealthy are that way because they deserve it, and therefore they have the recipe for success, and need to be left alone to continue fostering success. (Particularly in the current situation, I believe that the "recipe for success" is short-term, a catastrophe in the making for the rest of the country and only a cushy retirement plan for those execs.)

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  4. They're still sick days by IICV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It still counts as a sick day if you're taking the day off for your mental health, right?

    Of course, if American employers would just provide a reasonable number of vacation days, this wouldn't be an issue; unfortunately it seems like the company has to squeeze you for every last ounce of productivity, even when squeezing less might make you more productive.

    1. Re:They're still sick days by MBGMorden · · Score: 3

      For us it's not a matter of "reasonable number of vacation days". I've got way more vacation days than I'll ever use. Our sick days and vacation days are also out of the same pool.

      Sometimes though, you really just don't feel like coming in. I'm not talking habitually skipping on work, but maybe 2 or 3 days out of the year I'll wake up and just be like "You know what? FUCK going into work today." I've got the vacation time + a lot more, but a day off just for R&R is supposed to have 5 days notice. I usually don't know 5 days in advance when I'm going to be in that mood. So, even though they're all out of the same pot, there's just less paperwork involved in calling in and saying your sick.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  5. Re:Vacation time by emj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is a list of the amount of paid days you are required to give your employees:

    Finland 30
    Frankrike 30
    Förenade Arab Emiraten 30
    Estland 28
    Litauen 28
    Polen 26
    Danmark 25
    Grekland 25
    Luxemburg 25
    Sverige 25
    Österrike 25
    Israel 24
    Malta 24
    Tyskland 24
    Ungern 23
    Portugal 22
    Spanien 22
    Cypern 21
    Egypten 21
    Marocko 21
    Rumänien 21
    Sydafrika 21
    Australien 20
    Belgien 20
    Bulgarien 20
    Irland 20
    Italien 20
    Japan 20
    Lettland 20
    Nederländerna 20
    Nya Zeeland 20
    Slovakien 20
    Slovenien 20
    Storbritannien 20
    Tjeckien 20
    Sydkorea 19
    Malaysia 16
    Libanon 15
    Hong Kong 14
    Pakistan 14
    Singapore 14
    Taiwan 14
    Vietnamn 14
    Indien 12
    Indonesien 12
    Kanada 10
    Thailand 6
    Filipinerna 5
    USA 0

    from unt.se

  6. Why? by line-bundle · · Score: 2

    I don't get it. Work is not school.

  7. the WoW expansion pack came out today by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Funny

    i was going to make a snide joke: how can a private eye spy on a guy in a dark basement room with no windows, who doesn't eat, sleep or use the bathroom (real WoW payers use Depends!)

    but then i thought: if you are playing WoW instead of going to work today, you really are suffering from a kind of sickness, aren't you?

    and therefore, you are using your sick day appropriately

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  8. NOT sick days! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The only examples provided were of employees suspected of fraud while on medical leave.

    I see ZERO examples of a private dick being dispatched because someone took a sick day.

  9. Re:Vacation time by emj · · Score: 2

    This does not include days like Halloween and Christmas etc.

  10. Keep up with the times by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Employee longevity has dropped from 30-some years to about 3. Maybe corporate hiring policy should take that into account when doling out vacation time. I may not have been with the company for long, but I do have 20 years behind me and would like a new position to start out with something more than 2 weeks off.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:Keep up with the times by erroneus · · Score: 2

      You are supposed to NEGOTIATE for that. You tell them at the interview that is something you would like. Tell them what you have now and tell them you do not want to have less. They might offer resistance citing "policy" but believe me, they do it all the time for sought-after people. I recall one time I was bargaining with a potential employer. They were really pretty damned far from where I was living. I wanted some sort of transportation allowance or some such thing. They refused. I didn't accept. Simple as that.

    2. Re:Keep up with the times by greg_barton · · Score: 2

      I just got a job at JCPenney, and their vacation policy is based off of the total number of years worked in your adult life, not the number of years worked with them. You can easily start with four weeks of vacation.

  11. Not our fault. by chemicaldave · · Score: 2

    If we're overworked, the environment sucks, the work itself sucks, or any combination of those, then companies shouldn't be surprised. The idea of a "mental health" sick day shouldn't be seen as absurd. It's one reason why the best and smaller companies offer more vacation even to new hires.

    Unfortunately some companies (and the US work environment in general) really dont give a shit about their employees well being. Oh how I wish we had European workplace rules. At least we're not Japan.

  12. Paid Leave by cobrausn · · Score: 4, Informative

    The U.S. Military, which is known for working people a lot harder than most corporations, still gives 30 days a year of paid leave. No 'Sick Days'. You could not take days off and build up 60 days if you wanted to. Anything over that was just paid back to you at end of year. It was the best policy I have ever worked under.

    Now you couldn't always take your leave when you wanted to, for obvious reasons, but it worked and it's good for morale.

    --
    How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
  13. Hopefully they'll be there... by marcsiry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...on the Sunday morning when I'm on an eight hour outage call starting at 4AM...

    or the Monday night when I stay at the office until 10 working on a time sensitive launch...

    do they turn the "hooky" clock backwards in that case?

    --
    Marc Siry || interactive media professional, motorcycle enthusiast ||
    1. Re:Hopefully they'll be there... by PRMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Seriously. I worked as an Assistant MIS Director at a university. I worked my way up from student worker.

      My boss complained when I came in at 8:05 AM after staying until 10:00 PM the night before, and I didn't get overtime!

      I told her, "Fine, but be careful of what you wish for. From now on, I will come in at 8:00 on the dot every morning. But I will take a break from 10 AM to 10:15 AM, no matter who is here, what they want or what's on fire. I will leave for lunch at noon exactly and I will come back at 1. I will leave at 5 on the dot, and don't expect me to stay a minute later. If you want to count time, that's what we'll do."

      Sure enough, since we were hopelessly understaffed, there was a line in my cubicle at 10 AM. Too bad. I put up a pre-printed sign that said, "On Break" and made them wait. There was a major problem right before lunch the same day, but I went ahead and left it. (The network admin had to struggle through it, but he applauded me for doing the right thing.) When I came back at 1, she brought me into her office and told me that she had rethought it and that I was right!

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  14. Hooky Hokum! by SirAstral · · Score: 2

    This is such BS. If my company did that I would try to organize a massive Hooky Day! I am not a big fan of the union scene but this is just the sort of crap that causes people to get together and create them. Corporations simply need to understand that running on a skeleton crew is what makes them less productive!

    Overworked employees make more mistakes, hate their jobs more, have overall poorer health which affects productivity, and facilitates the installation of a revolving door at the front. No matter how cool your technology, processes, or systems become... people will forever remain your most powerful asset. If you treat them well, give them perks, pay fairly, and maintain flexibility you will have a crew that can perform as well as another crew with twice as many people under a punk boss!

    This is all fairly common sense, yet a common sense that is lost on most supervisors as they continue to strain the credulity of their efforts to minimize cost, and squeeze the last ounce of productivity out the lifeless worker drones!

  15. Re:Vacation time by emj · · Score: 2

    From google translate:

    Finland 30
    France 30
    United Arab Emirates 30
    Estonia 28
    Lithuania 28
    Poland 26
    Denmark 25
    Greece 25
    Luxembourg 25
    Sweden 25
    Austria 25
    Israel 24
    Malta 24
    Germany 24
    Hungary 23
    Portugal 22
    Spain 22
    Cyprus 21
    Egypt 21
    Morocco 21
    Romania 21
    South Africa 21
    Australia 20
    Belgium 20
    Bulgaria 20
    Ireland 20
    Italy 20
    Japan 20
    Latvia 20
    Netherlands 20
    New Zealand 20
    Slovakia 20
    Slovenia 20
    UK 20
    Czech Republic 20
    Korea 19
    Malaysia 16
    Lebanon 15
    Hong Kong 14
    Pakistan 14
    Singapore 14
    Taiwan 14
    Vietnam 14
    India 12
    Indonesia 12
    Canada 10
    Thailand 6
    Philippines 5
    USA 0

  16. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by mrex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    J. Edgar Hoover approves of your comment.

  17. Everyone has skeletons. by elucido · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't be fooled. This is a power play by employers to take even more power from the deunionized employee base. They want to destroy the middle class once and for all and the best way to do that is to reduce the employee to utter powerlessness and promote only the obsequious.

    If the boss gets pissed off, a team of investigators can permanently neutralize you. If you think the Union leader can protect you then they'll neutralize him too via investigation. It's a new way to find dirt on people, and it's creepy.

    So the PI uses the honey trap on you, you flirt with this new woman and now the PI gives that information to your boss. If you piss off your boss you can lose both your career and your marriage? Tell me how this can be avoided.

    1. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Phreakiture · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So the PI uses the honey trap on you, you flirt with this new woman and now the PI gives that information to your boss. If you piss off your boss you can lose both your career and your marriage? Tell me how this can be avoided.

      You could try being faithful to your wife . . . .

      As much as I hate the canard about "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide", there is a valid corollary: "If you've done nothing wrong, you won't get caught".

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    2. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by al0ha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >> Tell me how this can be avoided.

      Well one way would be for the average worker to get a clue and stop living hand-to-mouth, spending every dollar they make to buy shit they don't really need...

      In money there is power, but the average worker does not see that. If all workers had enough saved to tide them over for a few months, then workers could call the shots on how they should be treated and stand up to their a-hole bosses and corporations. I've done it and so has my wife, to the betterment of our lives and careers.

      But seeing as the average worker is saddled with so much debt they need their weekly paycheck just to stay afloat; they have essentially placed all the power in the hands of a-hole bosses and shitty corporate environments who, believe me, realize this fact and take full advantage of it.

      --
      Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
    3. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Id the investigator and a bullet between his eyes will do the trick nicely.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As much as I hate the canard about "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide", there is a valid corollary: "If you've done nothing wrong, you won't get caught".>

      Of course that's tempered by:

      If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.

      You can easily get caught on things you didn't do. Not having done them is a useful defense, but these days the accusation is as damaging as the conviction. Just ask anyone wrongfully accused of sexual harrassment or child abuse.

    5. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Applekid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the PI uses the honey trap on you, you flirt with this new woman and now the PI gives that information to your boss. If you piss off your boss you can lose both your career and your marriage? Tell me how this can be avoided.

      You could try being faithful to your wife . . . .

      As much as I hate the canard about "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide", there is a valid corollary: "If you've done nothing wrong, you won't get caught".

      Until the PI agency is under it's quota for the month and decides to finger you for playing hooky when they realize they need to show your bean-counter COO that they're actually catching people. At least for a crime you get a trial. Getting fired over something like this is just as life ruining as being a felon these days.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    6. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most people don't have the privilege of just deciding to have more money.

      I do happen to be lucky enough to have the means to make sure I have enough money to tide me over for a reasonable time but I'm not so arrogant as to delude myself that everyone is in a similar position.

      Many people get stuck living hand to mouth despite spending wisely and despite living as modest a life as is possible.
      My parents spent years living barely above the poverty line despite both of them working and both of them living in a 1 room apartment with no furniture other than a bed and a table.

      And being poor makes it harder to spend less.
      With a little extra money and a little extra time you can afford to buy lots of some food when there's a good sale.
      Storage space hits that one as well, you can't buy 6 months worth of toilet paper when it's on sale for a third the normal price when you live in a tiny single room with no extra space.
      With the money to buy and run a car you have far more jobs available to you and you can go to cheaper shops.

      but if you can't escape the hand to mouth stage then you'll get stuck spending more and getting less.

      it's not merely a choice as you so arrogantly imply.
      People end up in poverty often through no fault of their own and it can be very hard to escape.

    7. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by pogle · · Score: 2

      And how do we cope when we have the necessary savings accrued, and are simply unable to find a new job before they run out? When my former company closed their doors quite unexpectedly, I had a comfortable safety budget (a year+ inc unemployment), but thats been over a year ago now, and hundreds of applications later have netted me 4 total interviews, only one of which panned out (and is just for a short term contract gig that does nothing but hurt my future employability by keeping me out of my normal field, and is actually earning less than I was getting via unemployment).

      Given the job markets in many places, even the safety buffer is not a surefire way of avoiding such issues, just a slower way of strangling yourself. You still have to deal with stupid HR managers and corporate hiring practices to get in the door elsewhere, so the problem essentially remains for the majority of us.

      The only bright spot for me is that my wife finally managed to land a job after several years of hunting, so we've been able to actually increase our savings a bit more by living on a strict budget despite the lower income. Our combined salaries are still less than I was making before. But it comes at the cost at my current company of being 'pressured' to conform to silly standards and expectations outside of business hours (no PIs yet, thankfully), no time off at all (neither sick nor PTO), and no real options except to keep sending out applications everywhere and hoping someone responds someday.

      --
      http://thechubbyferret.net - Ferret pictures and informative links.
    8. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Local+ID10T · · Score: 2

      I have no mod points today, so simply... Well said!

      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    9. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by IICV · · Score: 2

      This is otherwise known as the Sam Vimes "Boots" Theory of Economic Injustice.

      I'm pretty sure there's almost nothing Terry Pratchett hasn't written about at one point or another.

    10. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by tbannist · · Score: 2

      Thank goodness no one has invented a device or program by which we can modify images or video to make it look like you've done something wrong.
      Imagine if they could crop a photo to make it look like you've done something wrong, like maybe make it look likeyou're having an affair with an under aged girl. I'm glad we'll be quite safe until someone invents deception.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    11. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by eth1 · · Score: 2

      I mostly agree with you, when you're talking about actual poverty. However, the GP said "average worker". I think it was CNNMoney that had an average net worth calculator (this was a year or two ago) that said the average net worth of someone my age (33) was about $8k. That should give a pretty good idea how much debt the "average" person with a house full of stuff and a car is carrying.

      I think the GP is right. If you have a reasonable job, there's not much excuse for not having a 6-12 month "oh shit" or "flip off the boss" fund, other than keeping up with the Joneses.

    12. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by MarcQuadra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What I find strange is how the working and middle classes feel entitled to so much more than they did only a few years ago in the 1980s. I had two college-educated parents with jobs, and I still had to share a room with my sister until I was ten. We had a small 19" TV and an antenna, because, according to my dad, it was 'absurd' to spend $20/month for cable. We crammed our family of five into a tiny Mazda when the station wagon was in the shop. The heat never came on until mid-November, and it never went above 62F.

      Now it seems that even welfare moms feel entitled to cell phones, cable TV, mid-range sedans, 70-degree apartments, and endless subsidized premium cereal for their already obese children. Seriously, try restricting any of the above for the people who are collecting government assistance, and watch as you are made out to be a corporate villain.

      There was recently a news article about how the local groceries have to staff-up for the first of the month. The (stay-at-home) mom (of five) complained how the benefits weren't enough, since she had to ration the cereal or it would run out and the kids would have to eat oatmeal for the rest of the month. My eyes bugged-out. Of course you have to ration 'sugar pops', I got one bowl a week, oatmeal was the standard breakfast of the middle class.

      We need a hardcore reality check and fiscal literacy like no other culture in history.

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    13. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Or...
      1. They work for a Unionized employee base and the Boss needs a PI to fire the slacker. As they need real proof before they do any HR. I have worked for a lot of companies Big Ones little one, with higher management with the low men on the organization Unionized and Un-unionized and let me tell you this there is no attempt to keep the people down usually there are attempts to bring people up. However most people will not allow them to do things like a Raise and more Responsibility. So they stay at their same job doing what they did, and no raise. Union people tend to feel ultra entitled (being entitled is a bad thing) so they will more often abuse the system then just being honest. So a company will need a PI to cut threw the red tape and fire the dishonest bastard who is wasting money.

      2. If the Boss is going to waist company money to hire a PI to fire you. Then he better have a good reason otherwise he is just wasting money. Most companies actually try to keep people hired as training costs are high. If he is going to spend all this money to fire you because he doesn't like you then it is just a double bad for business.

      3. How is hiring a PI new? They have been doing this for hundreds of years.

      Corporations are easy they are about making money. If they are going to do something that is opposite to that goal then there is a serious problem. Keeping their workforce down doing low level jobs vs. hiring them up is counter productive and bad for the bottom line. If they are going to hire a PI it will be because they need to prove that you are costing more then it will be to correct your behavior and hire a PI.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    14. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 2

      What if you're doing something legal, but embarrassing. Dancing in a gay burlesque show? Supporting a fringe political movement? Out at a competitor's corporate event with your girlfriend who works there? It's never as simple as you're making it sound. Hell, someone could spin something legitimate you're doing into something nefarious. Like, say, having sexual intercourse with a woman who says you didn't want to wear a condom...

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    15. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by phoenix321 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Taking sick days when not sick is not the same as not answering police questions when done nothing wrong.

      Actually, I have no pity for people who call in sick, go bowling with their friends and then get caught. There's a fine line between privacy for privacy's sake and "privacy" invoked to hide actual misconduct.

      Sick days are for being sick. People abusing are to blame, not employers wanting their employees to fulfill their contract.

      If the employment contract is too unfair to fulfill, please join a union and do something about it. Going AWOL from a crappy contract is like cheating an ugly wife you do not love. It may be fun while it last, but it isn't going to help anyone and much drama if something finds out. So take the high road instead and do something with a little more forethought. Please.

    16. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2

      there is a valid corollary: "If you've done nothing wrong, you won't get caught".

      Do you actually think no innocent person has ever been convicted of a crime they didn't commit? No one has ever been framed for a crime by someone with something to gain from framing them?

      Or did you just post without thinking?

    17. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by russotto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can easily get caught on things you didn't do. Not having done them is a useful defense, but these days the accusation is as damaging as the conviction. Just ask anyone wrongfully accused of sexual harrassment or child abuse.

      You can not only be "caught" for things you didn't do, you can be accused of things which aren't wrong. And not only is the accusation damaging, any attempt at defending yourself just makes you look guilty.

    18. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Fuzion · · Score: 2

      This is otherwise known as the Sam Vimes "Boots" Theory of Economic Injustice.

      I'm pretty sure there's almost nothing Terry Pratchett hasn't written about at one point or another.

      This just seems like an argument for why credit is important to have if used appropriately.

      --
      "Knowledge makes us accountable." - Che Guevara
    19. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by RollingThunder · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sick days are for being sick.

      I agree.

      I get sick days, personal well-being days, and vacation days.

      Sick days are for legitimate illness, short-notice.
      PWB is for "I am in a mental state where I can't see my ass coming in to work and being productive", short-notice.
      Vacation days are scheduled in advance.

      It works well. We're happy because we don't feel shackled to the desks, and the company's happy because it has predictability in who will be available, and both sides are happier because there's no falsehoods being perpetrated.

    20. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Sparr0 · · Score: 2

      If you think there's nothing wrong with doing things that upset your wife, at least half of your relationship has issues.

    21. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Requia · · Score: 2

      That means that they didn't pick the electricity supplier and price plan which best suits their consumption.

      Uh, since when are there actual options for that? I've certainly never had any kind of option in my power bill, let alone a second company to buy from. The gas company did have an alternate plan, but the annual fee was actually higher on the alternate plan (You borrow from the gas company in the winter to prevent those very high heating bills, and pay roughly the same amount all year, but with interest).

      --
      By all means mod me troll. I'm always happy to see my enemies are afraid to debate me.
    22. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by chebucto · · Score: 4, Informative

      Your post reads like a 'back in my day' followed by a 'kids these days'.

      You were not deprived in the least if you lived in a two-car home where your parents made you wear a sweater in the winter. None of this is uncommon today.

      There are some things today that may be different than yesterday - cultural acceptance of debt is the big one, in my mind. But the ins and outs are complicated, much more so than your sour kveltching.

      All that said, to go back to the point, the middle class (and the poor) really had the brown end of the stick for the past while. It turns out that the medina household income (warning: xls) has been mostly stagnent for the middle class, but rising for the rich. In adjusted 2009 dollars, incomes for the following years were

      Quartile - 2009 - 1999 - 1989 - 1979
      1 ------ - 11k -- 13k -- 12k -- 11k
      3 ------ - 49k -- 52k -- 48k -- 45k
      5 ------ - 295k - 302k - 230k - 182k

      So the poor are making the same now as they did in 1979, while the rich are making almost twice as much. (The income disparity gets much worse as you look at a smaller slice of the rich). The middle, meanwhile, is making about the same they made when the berlin wall fell.

      --
      The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    23. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by tsm_sf · · Score: 2

      If you have a reasonable job, there's not much excuse for not having a 6-12 month "oh shit" or "flip off the boss" fund, other than keeping up with the Joneses.

      "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." -- Lennon

      It really sounds like you (and the GP) just haven't lived enough to put yourself in other people's shoes. For every person still paying off their Hummer I'll find you ten that struggle with rent and food money every month.

      Unfortunately, the socioeconomic narrative that's always been pushed in the US is that:
      1) Hard work always pays off, and
      2) If you're not getting the pay-off you're really not working hard

      This is something people will hold to be Natural Law up until the point where it stops working for them. This is usually after their second minimum wage job as a teen or, if you're a libertarian, when mom and dad stop paying for college.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    24. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by MarcQuadra · · Score: 3, Informative

      And tossing you to the far-right camp is undeserved why, exactly?

      Because I believe in a living wage for workers, and that even people who elect not to work should be given enough to survive in relative comfort.

      I support the expansion of government into areas where government belongs (we could really use municipal composting where I live, and also more social workers for foster kids).

      I'm for decriminalizing most things, shutting down prisons and improving their conditions, ending the military-industrial stranglehold on our government, not being in 'optional' wars, universal healthcare (with a 10% deductible) for everyone, easing restrictions on immigration to allow current 'illegal' residents to stay and get legal faster... Amongst other things.

      I usually get yelled-out of the Republican blogs.

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    25. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by northstarlarry · · Score: 2

      Income has been stagnant for the working and lower-middle classes for decades, but people feel entitled to a much higher standard of living.

      Well, why do you think that is?

      Working class people see the GDP increasing, see the country on average becoming more wealthy, but see the upper classes absorbing that extra wealth, getting a bigger piece of the pie than before.

      Everyone around them has an increasing standard of living, why shouldn't they?

      Why shouldn't the pie continue to be divided up roughly the same way, so that as the pie grows, everyone gets more wealthy?

    26. Re:Everyone has skeletons. by Duradin · · Score: 2

      I can buy 50lbs of wheat for $15. 300lbs ($90) will feed a person for a year with some additional nutritional supplements.

  18. Re:Vacation time by Kilrah_il · · Score: 2

    There's something wrong with your translation, USA still gets 0! Maybe you should try to translate to corporate-speak; this usually changes the facts in no time.

    --
    Whenever in an argument, remember this.
  19. Re:Vacation time by Binestar · · Score: 2

    Yeah, but that is what they are required to give. The real question is what do they actually give? I work for a small company (>5 employees) and get 15 days vacation, 1 day sick, 6 holidays for a total of 22 paid days off per year. My last job I got 6 holidays and 10 vacation days for a total of 16 days off. How many people are really working with no paid time off in the US above the minimum wage/burger flipper levels?

    --
    Do you Gentoo!?
  20. Re:Technology is going to empower the bosses. by erroneus · · Score: 2

    It's not as bizarre and unlikely as you are hoping it is. Companies like HP sees no problem in doing all sorts of spying on their employees. Companies see no problem in making employees sign a "anything you create on or off company time belongs to us" agreements. They would certainly see no problem with "as long as you are employed by us, you agree to make available to us [this information]." There are no laws against it, therefore it is legal. And if it is legal, it is right and good. Also, it will take a lot of abuse before people voluntarily make themselves unemployed and if any number of employers want to do this, they will all do it.

    If you want an example what people are willing to put up with in the U.S., go travel somewhere by airplane.

  21. Thats because we are not human beings to "it". by elucido · · Score: 2

    And by it, I mean the corporate machinery, which includes the leadership of many corporations who see their employees as means to an end rather than the end itself.

    Corporations also are trying to take on the role once held by government. This conveniently will allow Sarah Palin to team up with Mitt Romney and Rand Paul to bring moral values into the workplace while at the same time forcing us to be in that place for longer and longer hours. And if we get sick of it then we have to deal with an investigation?

    And if you blog about it then you get called crazy like Joel Harris.

  22. Not sick days. Crap summary, l2read by billcopc · · Score: 5, Informative

    If any of y'all bothered to RTFA (madness, I know), you'd have found that they aren't talking about random one-off sick days. They are investigating people on long-term disability leave. Taking a sick day because your job is stressful is not the issue here, and frankly would not be worth hiring a private dick. These people are on extended periods of paid leave for what are supposed to be debilitating health issues - the whole point of being off work is because you're not in any shape to do the work. If you throw out your back, and they give you 6 months of paid leave to rest and recover, it sort-of looks bad if you start major renovations on your house the following week. It also constitutes insurance fraud, something a tad more serious than a few I.T. guys taking the day off to play Cataclysm.

    Given that I know of a bunch of people who are exploiting the system right now, shafting their fellow coworkers, driving up the premiums, and of course sticking the honest ones with overtime to make up for it, well I feel no sympathy for the hypocrites and I whole-heartedly endorse these investagators. Hell, we just outed one a few months back. Not only did this person have a long history of feigning chronic pain and stress, but she was doing it twice! When she was on leave from one job, she'd work at a 2nd, and vice versa. Once the taxman is done tearing her a new one, she gets to defend herself in court against two insurance firms. Not that I like the insurance racket any, but someone needs to punish these socially defective crooks.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  23. Re:The Cube-Dweller Culture Had This Coming by Ephemeriis · · Score: 2

    "Sick" days? That's, like, you're sick, you do no work, you're unproductive, but you still get paid?

    Nice gig.

    It's always a kick to see how cube-dwellers squeal when one of their work "rights" is threatened; the same cube-dwellers who want to preach to artists, writers and musicians about how they should be earning their keep in "the digital age" and when/when not to expect payment for what kind of work.

    This doesn't have much to do with being a cube-dweller, it has to do with being a salaried employee.

    Hourly employees are paid for the hours they work. Don't show up to work, don't get paid. Work 50+ hours in a week, get paid for 50+ hours that week.

    Salaried employees get paid a fixed wage largely unrelated to the number of hours they work in a given week. This is because it is assume that there are occasions that they'll work significantly more than 50 hours in a week. Sick leave, personal leave, vacation time, etc. are all ways of compensating salaried employees for that extra time they put in but don't get paid for.

    I used to work at Electronics Boutique. During the holidays we'd put in some very long hours. 10+ hour days became the norm. You'd see some very nice paychecks for a while there. But if I got sick and couldn't make it in to work I didn't get paid anything at all.

    I now work in IT at a hospital. I'm a salaried employee. I get sick leave and vacation time. Last week I put in 11 hours on Monday, 15 hours on Thursday, and then another 2 hours at 4:00 AM on Sunday - in addition to the normal 8-hour days in-between. I wound up with 52 hours last week. I'll get paid the same as if I worked 40.

    --
    "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
  24. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You don't think most of the people at the top aren't sociopaths?

    The sad fact is that to reach those high levels, it's not only not a hindrance, it's practically a requirement. It's not an indictment of successful people, but rather the way "the system" works. Sociopathy is ultimately rewarded, while honesty, thrift, efficiency... all those things we were taught are good are often impediments to rising through the ranks.

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  25. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sounds like a modern interpretation of the iron law of wages. If your belt can be tightened, someone should tighten it for you because you owe it to your company. If you aren't getting sick, you don't need days off because you owe that time to the company, and you'd just fritter it away having babies or something which would only decrease your productivity, or relaxing which might make you care less about the company's success. Rather than give you that time or give you the money spent on these stalkers, it's in everyone's best interests if the company keeps an eye on you.

  26. Re:Weddings and funerals? by thedonger · · Score: 2

    My company took the opposite stance: there is no distinction between sick and vacation days; they are all personal days. The only caveat is calling in sick on more than four different instances within a twelve month period is strongly discouraged. The wording is "grounds for termination," but I suspect that is a soft rule.

    --
    Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
  27. Re:Weddings and funerals? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    Those that have the balls to not roll over and play dead for big daddy employer.

    In fact I go further... I come in at 7:30 and leave at 4:30 to avoid traffic congestion. I was asked about it ONCE, I responded with, "It makes me more productive and I get more done, would you prefer I get less done?"

    The COO shut up and walked away.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  28. Re:Vacation time by Luckyo · · Score: 2

    The point is that this is the minimum required amount enforced by the law. You cannot summarily take this time away and not face enormous fines. Except in USA because there aren't any.

    For the record, I live in Finland, which is on top of that list with 30 days, and we're still considered among the top economies in the world in terms of competitiveness. Thing is, if a key employee needs to work extra, he can stockpile these days (my father does that for example). Once he had to work two years without leave days. Then the financial crisis hit, and folks were put on unpaid leave.
    He just took his 60 days of paid vacation instead and flew around the world with my mom. Employer was actually HAPPY and even pressured him into taking the paid vacation, because it meant another person less they had to account for with bureaucracy needed to put people on unpaid leave.

    It's a system that works, keeps people fresh so they don't burn out, allows for time with the family, and yet still grants key employees an ability to work with no leave if company needs them to, and they want to (i.e. properly incentified while preventing the pressure when employee doesn't want to.

  29. Re:Power, control, thats what they want. by TheFlamingoKing · · Score: 2

    Gonna go out on a limb here and guess you don't own a business...

  30. Re:Vacation time by IICV · · Score: 2

    Um, here's a better list (and in English).

    The US is in bold and has a star. Do you know why? Because there's no minimum requirement, that is apparently the average at several large firms. This means that the US's statistic is essentially bullshit; if they measured the other countries' days off using the same criteria as the US's, all of the other statistics would get bumped up (after all, the values can't go down due to regulation, so the only direction they can go is up).

    Anyway, as for your 22 paid days off: you're including holidays and sick days. The number for (say) Finland does not include that - they get 30 days of strictly vacation time, not including holidays and sick days. When you sort by total number of days off, the US still ranks near the bottom - and they would probably be at the bottom, if the statistics were at all comparable.

    Basically, corporations have US workers bent over the table and we're laying there saying "It's not so bad, at least I get six holidays".

  31. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by arivanov · · Score: 2

    Sociopathy does not work in the long term. It provides short term gain and hence it is the fashion of the day.

    In the long term not having empathy is a fatal flaw for a manager. If a manager does not have empathy he does not know how far to turn the screws before the workforce revolts. So he turns them too tight and the team fails to deliver, leaves or outright revolts and tries to lynch mob the management.

    I have seen that more than once. In fact, In fact, I have seen that more than once with the same person leading to the same end.

    Similarly, vs a background of sociopathy a non-sociopathic company is guaranteed a considerable competitive advantage.

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  32. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Will the executives be subject to this also? I can suggest staking out golf courses, marinas (when weather is nice of course), Martha's Vineyard (or wherever the local trophy home location is), and their secretary's apartments.

    The title of the article is deceptive though. It isn't about people being stalked because they took a sick day or two off, it is about people abusing long term medical leave. That I have to admit I don't have a problem with them investigating. If you say you are unable to work because you can't walk and they catch you helping your neighbor move a sofa down 5 flights of stairs then I'd agree you should be busted.

    Investigating someone for being out 3 days with the flu strikes me as a bit petty though. Maybe the problem at that point is your employees need some vacation time or you just have lousy moral. Firing people left and right won't make the remaining ones any better and won't guarantee you will magically get a flood of super workers to replace them (or that they won't end up as unhappy as the first bunch).

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  33. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 4, Funny

    iDoubt it.

    --
    "But this one goes to 11!"
  34. Re:Vacation time by hey! · · Score: 2

    GDP? Sure, but per capita of course. And we should look at GINI (generally the higher the GINI the higher the disparities between rich and poor).

    Finland, topping the list at 30 days leave has a per capita GDP of 44, 650 and a GINI of 26.9
    France also requires 30 days leave and has a per capita GDP of 42.747 and GINI of 32.7
    Estonia requires 28 days leave and has a per capita GDP of 14,266and GINI of 34
    Lithuania requires 28 days leave and has a per capita GDP of $16,542 and a GINI of 36
    Sweden a little down on the list, gives 25 days of leave and as a per capita GDP of 36,502 and GINI of 23
    Austria also gives 25 days of leave and has a per capita GDP of $39,454. and a GINI of 26

    samples from the lower end of the pack,
    Pakistan: 14 d/$1067/31.2
    Vietnam : 14 d/$1060/37
    India : 12 d/$1124/36.8

    The three lowest economically advanced countries comparable to the US:
    Australia: 20d/$45,285/30.5
    Belgium: 20d/$43/794/28
    Japan : 20d/$41,366/38.1
    Netherlands: 20d/$48,233/30.9
    New Zealand: 20d/$31,067/36.2
    Canada : 12d/$45,657/32.1

    The USA requires 0 days leave and has a per capita GDP of 46,381 and a GINI quotient of 45

    Now in aggregate the data is all over the place, but there are obvious clusters (e.g. the Baltic states with their post co mmunist economies, high leave days, low GDP, moderately high GINI). In general, GINI seems to be a little better predictor of leave days than per capita GDP. About the only strong generalization you can make is that countries with low GINIs (that is to say relatively small income distribution disparity) tend to give lots of leave days.

    The countries with the smallest income disparities in the world:

    Sweden (23)
    Norway (25) : ?
    Austria (26) : 25 d
    Czech Republic (26) :?
    Luxembourg (26) : 25 d
    Malta (26) :?
    Serbia (26): ?
    Slovakia (26): 20d
    Albania (26.7)
    Germany (27): 24d

    South Africa is an outlier, with a GINI of 65(!!!) and 21 days of leave, but of course history accounts for those figures. You have a population of economic elite that accumulated vast wealth under apartheid, and a transition to popular rule that left that wealth in their hands.

    So, here's the conclusion I'd draw. Where people on the bottom of the economic scale are relatively powerful, either by commanding a large share of a nation's wealth or by historical events that make them influential beyond their economic means, countries tend to require companies give employees lots of leave. We *can't* draw the conclusion that lots of required paid leave impoverishes a country. We can find examples for that of course, but more counter-examples.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  35. Re:Vacation time by QRDeNameland · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This does not include days like Halloween and Christmas etc.

    Who the hell gets Halloween as a paid holiday?

    --
    Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
  36. Re:Weddings and funerals? by syousef · · Score: 4, Informative

    My company took the opposite stance: there is no distinction between sick and vacation days; they are all personal days. The only caveat is calling in sick on more than four different instances within a twelve month period is strongly discouraged. The wording is "grounds for termination," but I suspect that is a soft rule.

    Wait a sec. You call in sick 4 times in a year and they fire you? THAT'S FUCKED UP. It may even be illegal if you can prove you were ill.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  37. Re:Or they could *GASP* unionize... by Linegod · · Score: 2

    Yes, because working at GM, Ford, etc was a workers paradise before the big bad unions came along, hellbent on destroying the company.

    If you believe you would have _any_ benefits, a single one, without the unions coming before you are delusional.

    --
    -- I care not for your foolish signatures.
  38. Re:Or they could *GASP* unionize... by operagost · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The hyperbole is strong with this one! No, unions are not inherently bad. But can't we appreciate the irony of teachers' pension funds being wiped out when GM defaulted on their bonds so that unions could have THEIR benefits?

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  39. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by operagost · · Score: 2

    PHB protip: 40% of all sick days are taken on Monday or Friday! FORTY PERCENT!

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  40. Re:Not sick days. Crap summary, l2read by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

    God the mods are gullible sometimes, all you have to do is call everyone stupid and say RTFA and the mods are like "oh yeah, they really should *mod up*".

    "Raymond investigated an employee at a Florida health organization who called in sick with the flu for three days."

    "In 2009, four firefighters in Haverhill, Mass., were suspended after a private investigator, hired by the mayor, caught them attending hockey games and engaging in other blatantly non-sick-day activities."

    And then there's the 'easy' solution, just track all your employees, all the time.

    "Ahearn once had a client who issued each of his employees a mobile phone with a GPS tracking system."

  41. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by spun · · Score: 2

    While this is a nice theory, nothing in my experience seems to bear out your conclusions. By your theory, corporations should become less sociopathic over time. I've seen just the opposite. For your theory to really work, all workers would have to have the realistic option of leaving any employer that demonstrates sociopathic behavior, at any time. The elites have done everything in their power to ensure that as many working class people are as desperate as possible, and unable to effectively resist sociopathic actions by their employers. Also, it seems to me that capitalism, as a system, seems supremely uninterested in anything but the short term.

    In fact, I would postulate an alternative hypothesis, that in any area dominated by sociopaths, even non-sociopaths must adopt sociopathic behaviors to compete.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  42. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

    Sociopathy does not work in the long term. It provides short term gain and hence it is the fashion of the day.

    In the long term not having empathy is a fatal flaw for a manager. If a manager does not have empathy he does not know how far to turn the screws before the workforce revolts. So he turns them too tight and the team fails to deliver, leaves or outright revolts and tries to lynch mob the management.

    Does this work long enough for the manager to become filthy rich?

    Does the inevitable failure of this model prevent the manager from finding employment at another place and starting the cycle anew? Or prevent them from leaving before the chickens come home to roost, finding employment at another place and starting the cycle anew?

    We engineers and other practical-minded people often take to broad a view when discussing what "works", considering things like the long-term health of the company etc. This is why we are often caught off guard by the seemingly irrational actions of sociopaths that when considered from the viewpoint of who the sociopath actually cares about -- themselves and themselves alone -- the strategy is almost entirely upside.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  43. Arrested for 'Lying?' by theNAM666 · · Score: 2

    From the referenced article:

    >This summer, Middletown, Pa., schoolteacher Leslie Herneisey -
    >a three-time Teacher of the Year nominee - was arrested and
    >charged with lying to colleagues about having an inoperable brain
    > tumor so she could take extended sick leave.

    I love journalists. Since when is lying to colleagues an offense you can be arrested for?

  44. Re:Weddings and funerals? by syousef · · Score: 2

    Look up 'at will employment'. It's a beautiful libertarian dream, where the people in several states voted to reverse a hundred years of workers' rights and place the balance of power back entirely in the hand of employers, where it belongs.

    With power should come responsibility. 'At will employment' is simply employers shirking that responsibility. Employers who sap the life out of their workers and discard them when they can no longer work are nothing but leeches. The idea that we'll have a better world when this is allowed to happen is nothing more than self-serving irrational hand-waving by those who stand to gain from this practice in the short term. Their businesses do not operate in a vacuum and their business operating and making profits rely on society permitting the business to operate.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  45. mental "sick days" by RabidMonkey · · Score: 2

    I wish and hope that some day companies will start to address mental health as well as physical heath, specifically related to sick days. If you have a sniffle, they tell you not to come in to work, you'll make someone sick, but if you're stressed out, unable to sleep, on-call for weeks, going through a breakup/divorce, have sick parents etc, and can't handle the mental strain, then you're SOL. Work on a salary? you know all those extra hours you put in for free for the company? Want to get something *back* from them? yeah, right ...

    "Mental Health" days are widely recognized by non-management types as beneficial, but you don't see companies promoting them. 'take a vacation day' is the common line, but when you're only provided with 10 of them a year , it's awefully 'expensive' to take one because your boss has had you working 12 hour days for 2 weeks and you just need 1 freakin day off to sleep, do laundry, maybe buy some real food for a change.

    But seriously, mental health, when you work in a job that is focused on mental performance (as much of IT/geekery is), is just as, or more, important as physical health. I can sit and read documents/manuals, catch up on email, update a few spreadsheets etc with a cold, but if I'm tired/stressed/"out of it", I'm next to useless.

    Taking care of employees isn't a concern of companies any longer, if it ever was, despite the fact that giving a little can get them a lot. Policy, process, executive bonuses are all worked around 'you must be in your desk working from x to y and always being productive, or else', instead of the realization that we aren't machines and our brains are more valuable when they're functional than not.

    $0.02.

    --
    We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
  46. Re:Vacation time by scot4875 · · Score: 2

    So, basically, as long as you get your 47 days off per year, everyone else can get bent? You don't see a problem, because obviously, everyone could just get a job like yours if they wanted the time off?

    And one wonders why government employees get a bad name...

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  47. "Join a union and do something about it" by jeko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Companies hire you for a 40-hour work week, and then feel no compunction about working you twice that. I know of more than one company that refuses to allow employees to take vacations -- always "too busy now, try again in a couple of months" -- and then institute "hour caps." effectively screwing workers out of their vacations. I know of others that refuse to allow legitimate comp time to be taken.

    Once upon a time, after working three 70-hour weeks back-to-back-to-back, and then being asked to put in a fourth week of the same, I came down with a good solid, three-day case of the "flu." To be honest, I actually did feel like hell.

    Workers start faking sick days when companies fail to honor their agreements on reasonable work weeks, vacations and comp time.

    Now, companies have started hiring private detectives to shadow workers outside of the job. Welcome back to the bad old days of the Pinkerton Detective Agency.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_National_Detective_Agency

    During the labor unrest of the late 19th century, businessmen hired Pinkerton agents to infiltrate unions, and as guards to keep strikers and suspected unionists out of factories. The best known such confrontation was the Homestead Strike of 1892, in which Pinkerton agents were called in to enforce the strikebreaking measures of Henry Clay Frick, acting on behalf of Andrew Carnegie, who was abroad; the ensuing conflicts between Pinkerton agents and striking workers led to several deaths on both sides. The Pinkertons were also used as guards in coal, iron, and lumber disputes in Illinois, Michigan, New York, and Pennsylvania, as well as the Great Railroad Strike of 1877.

    The private detectives aren't there just to enforce sick days. They're also there to quash the unions you advocate as a solution.

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
    1. Re:"Join a union and do something about it" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Don't you have labour laws to protect people from that kind of thing? In the EU the work/life balance is considered essential and there is an absolute cap of 48 working hours per in most jobs.

      I find the difference in attitude towards work in the EU and the US interesting. Forgive me if I got the wrong impression but it seems that Americans think it's okay to let employers work people ragged, or if not okay at least legal. Employment seems to be a contract between you and the company and you get your protection from it. In the EU there is still a contract but it is supported by strong laws.

      A good example is the right to have sick leave while on holiday. If you get ill during your vaction in the EU you can claim the time back as sick leave and use it for another vacation later. The thinking is that rest periods from work are essential to a happy and reasonably bareable life and employers just have to accept that.

      Since everyone needs a job and jobs are hard to come by employers are in a very strong position. Laws are needed to balance things out.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  48. Re:Weddings and funerals? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

    I've not been off sick for a couple of years. Of course, I'm not American and I don't live in the US, so my evil socialist healthcare system has no vested interest in keeping me sick so I keep paying for medicines I don't really need.

    Now all I need to do is work out a way to take the 15 days holiday I have left off, when there are less than 15 working days left in the year...

  49. Re:Now you see why I warned Slashdot about vigilan by spun · · Score: 2

    You seem to be looking at the robber baron era through the great depression, then mysteriously skipping fifty years or so when more worker friendly government regulations and programs like the new deal gave workers more power to negotiate, and corporations were forced to act more responsibly.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  50. Re:Vacation time by BillyGee · · Score: 2

    Just to clarify, that list isn't quite correct either. Different countries measure differently.

    For example the 28 days (4 weeks) in Estonia is just that, 4 weeks vacation, not 28 working days (close to 6 weeks of vacation). You are supposed to take it in chunks of at least 1 week obviously, and by law you have to have one vacation of at least 2 weeks in length. For Canada however, the 10 days means 10 working days, so really 2 weeks.

    Holidays - again quite a big difference. In Estonia, if a holiday falls on a weekend, it doesn't get carried over to the next week like it does in Canada. So hence some years you'll have more actual holidays than others. In 2010, 7 out of the 12 holiday days in Estonia fall on actual working days. In 2011, only 5.

    Sick days - another difference maker. All depends on local labour law and how sick pay is legislated. In Estonia, the first 3 days are considered your "deductible", to use an insurance term, so you don't get paid anything by anyone. Days 4 through 8, your employer pays 70% of your calculated daily wage (calculated from your last 6 months of employment). From day 9 onwards, the state pays 70% of your calculated daily wage (calculated from your previous calendar year's income). In the province of Ontario, Canada, by law you are allowed up to 10 unpaid sick days per year, but most Canadian employers provide paid sick days, some even bankable and some allow it to be paid out if you leave the company.

    So all in all, tables such as this are rather meaningless without an actual analysis of the labor laws and practices of each country.