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Apache Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee
iammichael writes "The Apache Software Foundation has resigned its seat on the Java SE/EE Executive Committee due to a long dispute over the licensing restrictions placed on the TCK (test kit validating third-party Java implementations are compatible with the specification)."
Sad that it has to come to this ... I can't begin to say how useful the Apache libraries have been in past Java development. Why reinvent the wheel and plumbing when Apache is providing really awesome libraries for free that cover much of the "grunt work".
I fear Oracle is doing far more harm than good to Java.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I hate seeing the Java community tear itself apart like this, internal rifts have now become vast canyons thanks to the demise of Sun and the acquisition by Oracle.
Don't get me wrong, the tinder was plenty dry in the Java world but recent events have poured on the gasoline.
Larry & friends aren't strictly to blame for this one.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
What are the restrictions on the TCK license? I RTFA (and its linked pieces) but it doesn't seem to spell out the specifics.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
It's about a programming language that everyone pretended was an open standard, and the reactions of various parties upon discovering that it isn't.
We'll still get great java and other JVM based language libraries from Apache.
No, it's not about that at all, actually. It boils down to IBM vs. Oracle.
Here's my appeal: I would like to know what this really means for Java, Dalvik and of course Android. A good, balanced and sensible analysis will be appreciated.
Not any more... IBM has sided with Oracle against Apache (and, by extension, Google).
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
We're living in interesting times. It's obvious Oracle isn't going to be cutting people a whole lot of slack, here.
Maybe we should start taking bets on:
a) When Oracle starts requiring a per-core license for production JVMs, and
b) How many $$ per core that will be?
This might play into their strategy. We know they're putting some heat on Google, but maybe a move like this would buy them some leverage, say, against Salesforce.com (with whom they're engaged in an emerging, but heated battle)
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
So, does this mean we won't be seeing any new versions of Tomcat?
My understanding is this...
Long before Java was GPL'd through OpenJDK, Sun was trying to claim that it was an open standard, and published specifications for the JVM, etc - kinda how Microsoft does with .NET. The dirty secret was that they also held patents on the technology, so they could still sue you for implementing their spec. If you want access to the patent grant - you can have that too, for free even, provided your implementation of Java passes the compatibility kit (TCK) tests (which disallows sub-setting). Those tests are the problem though - they are decidedly NOT open source, and you can only get access to them if you follow Sun's rules, like not building a mobile device and a bunch of crap like that. Apache (with help from IBM) has implemented those "open" specs via the Harmony project, but all the TCK rules make them mad.
Separate from all that, Sun then went and GPL'd the whole thing as OpenJDK. You can do anything with OpenJDK that you can do with any other GPL code - an important thing to remember in all this. Rumor has it, the GPLv2 license may even grant you some implicit protection against any patents Sun has on the technology - at the very least they would have a hard time suing you for building something based on OpenJDK as long as you adhere to the GPL
Unfortunately, Android isn't based on OpenJDK, it's based on Harmony, so it doesn't have any protection from Sun/Oracle's patents on Java (which also may apply to many virtual machines for other languages), so they are getting sued.
So, in other words, just what the GGP said.
How about the Oracle Says You Can Go Fuck Yourself Process.
That's about what it is.
I haven't been following the events here so far, and a little searching yielded a lot of words that I am not familiar with and not a lot of insight. Could someone explain what the issue is here?
As far as I have been able to tell, the focus is on the licensing terms for the TCK, and the TCK is a test suite for existing and proposed Java standards. Oracle owns the rights to TCK and will not license it to the Apache Software Foundation under terms that the ASF will agree to.
Assuming that I have that right, so what? It's Oracle's software; they can choose to license it as they see fit, right? I _thought_ that passing the TCK's tests was necessary for being allowed to call your stuff "Java", but searching the web, I didn't find anything that supported that. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can see, ASF is not being restricted in what they can and can't do.
What am I missing here?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
We was out voted so we're going to pack out bags and go home!
I've been concerned about the future of Java ever since it was announced that Oracle won the bid over IBM.
I've always regarded as clueless the opinions that IBM would have been a bad fit. At least for Java, IBM would have treated it the way it needs to be: this licensing issue would have been resolved well. IBM has demonstrated that it knows how to interact with open source communities, and it's entirely possible that Java would have been spun off Eclipse-style, if not to Eclipse.
I'm a bit perplexed by all this.
Java is the poster boy of corporate computer language sell out. It was created by Sun and closed source for well over a decade. It has/had a legendary reputation as a corporate "enterprise" language with layer upon layer of pointless buzzword frameworks.
It wasn't open sourced until very, very recently, and even then it was tightly controlled by Sun.
But now Oracle takes over and everybody gets butthurt about how it's not "open"? Java was never open in the first place. Get over it.
Oracle purchased the "Golden Goose", and it has every right to butcher the critter in the misguided hope that it can get all the eggs out at once. This makes Larry a man who thinks he can divorce his acquisitions from the Open Source community and still have something of value. This is simply a delusion. He will wake up soon and discover that not only has he rendered his purchase worthless, he's generated such a profound amount of ill will from the people with whom he is beholden for his business, that all aspects of his business will be horribly impacted.
We have plenty of excellent languages to build with, and most have been ported to VMs. I see no reason to spend more than a few minutes mourning Java, point and laugh at the fool on the hill, and getting back to work on Python, or Ruby, or whatever environment floats your future boats.
Oh, and Larry, old Chinese proverb says "Be careful when burning bridges that you are not standing on one when you set it ablaze."
JC Penney? Last time I was in there, seemed like they only had clothes for fat people.
Well, JC Penney is an American company.
ha