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Opera Goes To 11, With Extensions and Tab Stacks
surveyork writes "Opera Software released Opera browser 11 for desktop (Windows, Mac, Linux, etc). The main features are support for extensions similar to Chrome and Tab Stacks, Opera's version of tab management. The extension catalog is still small, with roughly 200 extensions, but steadily growing. The browser is very fast — Chrome-fast — and lightweight, with a new installer which is 30% smaller than the one in the previous version. Other enhancements include visual mouse gestures and better address field. There's no hardware acceleration yet, but it could be coming in a further dot release and benefit XP users as well as Mac, Linux and Windows 7/Vista users."
Why don't you just make 10 better? And make 10 be the top, number... and make that a little better?
I tried Opera last time. It looks quite a bit like FF 4. Which itself is looking somewhat similar to Chrome.
Meh, at this point in time, it hardly matters which browser you use - so long as its not IE6... So browser wars can stop now ;)
But at least all this competition is putting a lot of push into better browsers.
Only took seven years, but now I'm using them and liking them. Would probably prefer them to expand vertically instead of horizontally, and while I realize it's a niche-request and might not work well in practice, I'd still like the ability to automatically redirect pages into groups using regex against title/url/whatever.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
No, you weren't... http://www.zdnet.be/zd_images/2010/48/opera11.jpg
Manuals are your last resort only
I can't be the only one who thought of this...
Ya, I'm sure the guy who wrote the headline Opera Goes To 11 never thought of the connection to Spinal Tap.
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
Preferences -> Advanced -> Shortcuts -> Enable visual hints... I personally use mouse gestures so I don't need to use menus. They also changed the close tab which is really the only movement gesture I used (apart from the button flips), it prompted me to look at the settings more carefully and remove everything else so now it's just GestureRight; setting it to the old style GestureRight, GestureLeft, GestureRight failed 50% of the time.
Actually... you aren't. ;)
You didn't even read the title?
I haven't used Opera's tab stacking yet, but it sounds a lot like one of the features the Tree Style Tab add-on adds to Firefox. It's quite a flexible add-on, and if you constantly have a lot of tabs open or would prefer to have a hierarchical tab list on the side to save vertical real estate (especially if you have a 16:9 monitor), it can revolutionize your world almost as much as tabs did originally. I can't recommend it enough.
Yay, THREE!
Firefox is my primary browser, but I do have Opera installed and keep it updated. One annoying bug that's been around for a while is that middle-clicking on a link does not set the Referrer header. This causes a number of *ahem* "image-hosting" websites to throw their hotlink prevention message at you.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
How is Opera "Chrome Fast"? Shouldn't it be Chrome that is almost opera fast?
Based on both age and lots of tests...
The stack concept is an interesting alternative to Firefox's panorama. I find the former convenient with a small amount of tabs.
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
I've been using Opera 11 for a few days now and I'm enjoying it. It feels faster than version 10. I think it's more stable too, based on my testing so far.
dammit! For liek 3 weeks they just kept throwing mod points at me and half the time I couldn't even use them up. And now, here I sit without any mod points...
It's still fairly buggy, I'm surprised they are releasing it so soon.
The compatibility with websites has finally improved so as to be usable, which is great.
It's decently fast, although Minefield (not FF 32bit v) is faster on my machine.
Now, if only they will allow me to customize keybindings and get extensions that work. At least here, Opera adblock doesn't block ads.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
I keep trying Opera and I keep being disappointed. I guess it's just not for me. The text rendering is worse, the chrome takes up more room, the form elements are not native looking, the url input seems more rudimentary than others, its image rendering doesn't seem to be color-space-aware, and its rendering quirks are somehow louder than other browsers' quirks.
It may very well be numerically faster than other browsers, but it doesn't feel faster. I don't really care if a gmail inbox takes 5 seconds to render -- I can always switch away and read twitter or whatever in the meantime. Opera does have many UI innovations, but they always seem to lack polish to my eye.
I just want a browser that is "fast enough", gets out of my way, and is thoughtfully designed for human interaction. It is my impression that Chrome, Safari, and Firefox are all better in this regard.
I don't mean this to be a dig against Opera or the people who make it. I realize that it takes an extraordinary amount of effort and magic to produce Opera. I'm just curious why people like it, and if it will ever make it beyond a niche product on the desktop.
There aint no pancake so thin it doesn't have two sides.
So... when do we get noscript for opera?
my favourite extension for opera 11 that ive tried so far is F.B. Purity, it filters out the junk, such as application spam, and other machine generated messages, from your facebook homepage newsfeed, making fb much less annoying to use. it also lets you increase the font size and easily apply your own custom css rules. pretty cool: http://www.fbpurity.com/
Yes, but here we have ELEVEN.
Programmers at Opera have proven to me that they are a force to be reckoned with. If the Firefox team had just 3/4 of the ambition of Opera folks, Firefox would be quite advanced. Credit goes to them. The [frequent] releases they make are a testimony to their skill.
As far as Javascript performance goes, I'm ok with with Opera and Chromium. The area that Chromium really lags is when opening new tabs in the background, perhaps HTML/CSS rendering. Every time I open an new tab in the background with Chromium, the browser lags so badly that I can't even scroll the current, fully loaded tab.
I have never had this problem with Opera and that's why I like it more. It's not just fast at Javascript, it's fast at everything.
Actually, it does have the ability to use hardware acceleration for graphics in both opengl and direct3d, it just has not been implimented in general release versions of opera yet. See this discussion for more details and a post by an Opera developer. Currently, as the links mention, Opera's rendering engine is pure software, but it seems to keep up well enough with the browsers that have opted for hardware acceleration so far. I'm guessing they wont implement it until they can make sure it works on Windows/OSX/Linux/Unix, since they try to keep uniform support most of the time on all major Operating Systems.
I've been a long time Opera user, switching from Mozilla (pre firefox) to Opera when it became free (as in beer). However, I do get irritated by their efforts to keep up with Chrome's speed while screwing over long time users (they cant win that fight in the long run anyways, Google has way too much money). Numerous bug reports on long time stable features and major regressions happen every time they release a major update for Opera and take months or years to fix. From Opera 10.5 to pre 11, tool tips would cover up other applications even if Opera was located in the background. If you happen to have a mouse with arrow buttons for back and forward, the forward arrow button has been broke as far as using the "fast forward" feature since 10.5. At one point, during the version 11 betas, the arrow buttons were broke period (though it was a development release so one cannot really complain about that). With Opera 11, their famous mouse gestures are also partially broken with their implementation of a graphical interface for showing what gestures do what when you hold down the right mouse button. One of the more useful gestures was "right" + "left" + "right" (closes the current window). Now, with the changes they have made, this gesture only works half the time, but they have said they will fix it, but it's tied into the UI they implemented, so it will probably be a while.
They do generally listen to their users. They decided to force chrome like urls on their users during the Opera 11 development (removing "http://" and any of the args after *.com such as ?id=12345) claiming it would make users less likely to click fraudulent links. However, if you're a developer, seeing the arguments is a must and not seeing "http://" or "https://" or "ftp://" is just kind of silly, since sometimes you like to know what protocol you are using instead of guessing through some abstract replacement graphic. Since opera has never been a browser to appeal to novice internet users, dumbing it down seems kind of counter intuitive.
Opera is still my primary browser (except for development--I prefer Firefox/Firebug for that over Opera Dragonfly, but it seems every new version they release, I dread what long time feature they will break next. They haven't frustrated me enough to want to modify the Chromium source code to natively have all the features of Opera, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it for Opera 12.
I avoided Opera for years mainly because they're nazi like adherence to standards meant many pages would display incorrectly (even with UA set to FF or whatever), it never having extensions so no adblock or checkthemall or whatever addons you might want.
The fanbois making false claims about Opera being the first to innovate many things never helped.
I have been using it next to FF beta 8 and Chrome and it has gotten a lot better. It's decently fast, and I quite like it.
Some of the things you mention are just false though. I notice no difference with text rendering on my HD screen, the chrome takes up less room than both IE and FF*, although not Chrome, the form elements look identical to the ones rendered in any other browser...URL input also is no different...seemingly you have simply made these things up.
The things that annoy me is that it uses shift + ctrl to open a new tab instead of the defacto standard ctrl, and there is no way to have tabs you open from a link open next to the active tab and have new blank tabs open at the end of the browser. Also, no working adblock despite what hosts files trolls say.
I just wonder how the opera fanbois will mod this post.....
*this is after disabling the ridiculous toolbar down the bottom...it uses the space a lot better than both FF (which has all that wasted space in the title bar) and IE (which put the address bar on the same level as tabs). Although it at least has a proper toolbar, unlike chrome....
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Well, it's one browser, isn't it? It's not ten.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Starting Opera 10 as a normal user triggers UAC randomly. Eventually I started to skip that by pressing ESC since it will still run the program normally. Hard to believe the devs caused that since Opera doesn't know how to seamlessly automatically update itself or inform you why UAC is needed and why you need to cooperate. Lots of Opera forum users sadly type their PW everytime Opera asks, many fellow forumers have no idea what's going on, so they're are just told to DISABLE UAC! Disable UAC because of malware --the exact reason UAC was created!
The devs screwed up royally and I've so far not found any workaround on their forums or elsewhere.
I don't understand why any knowledgeable user would want to use a closed-source browser nowadays. Any specific benefit Opera might have over another particular browser would be outweighed by the drawbacks, IMO.
"Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
Since the only thing I really never want and haven't been able to control using the built-in options, are those annoying ad-things which highlight words, I've been using a user-javascript in Opera with a hook to detect and disable them. Sure, I need to manually update it a couple of times per year, but no big deal. To use, find/set your user javascript directory under "prefs->advanced->content->javascript options" and just drop the file there.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
The tech news headlines would be awesome... "Opera releases version 10.... uh, again...ffs"
meep
I just upgraded my Opera 10 installation; I have about 20-25 tabs that I start when I decide to check the internet; forums, blogs, email, facebook, etc.
Firefox grinds to a halt for about 10 seconds, and takes a total of about 20 seconds to render all of them, max CPU usage on my quad core is about 28% when I'm not doing anything else with my computer. Keep in mind this is with Adblock enabled.
Chrome maxes all 4 cores to 100% for a few seconds and then it's completely done rendering. No adblock.
Opera still only hits ~30% CPU, so it's not using much more than 1 core as well. However, it manages to complete almost as fast as Chrome. Not sure how they've managed this. Very fast I must say. And the interface doesn't grind to a halt like Firefox's, it definitely appears to be capable of prioritizing mouse-click events on the fly (to change tabs for instance).
All that said I still use Firefox on my desktop, and can't wait till they get true multi-core support.
Opera definitely has a chance on my netbook though.
I know this is a little late, but that was what they were playing off on the Beta for weeks now.
Opera had a Filter feature. It would create "Filters" which looked like folders. Each folder had mail in it based on Bayesian filters that learned from the user dragging the mail into folders. I had all of my mail sorted this way. It looks like they suddenly removed the feature without warning. Now my thousands of mail messages are together, unsorted. It's the equivalent of your email program taking every folder you have for email and dumping all the contents into one big folder. I wish I hadn't trusted Opera enough to blindly upgrade.
Amazing how few of these comments discuss the topic, and how many go on about Opera generally.
Anyway, I've wanted this feature for years, and this looks like it could be a decent implementation. I like the way the 'master tab' of a stack can be altered according to the last highlighted tab when you click "Tab Group" to stack them. One slight issue however is that it's hard to see which tabs are part of a group if the tab placement is vertical instead of horizontal.
Time will tell how all this works in the real world.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
Richard Stallman's mindset may be overkill at times, but he's basically right. I don't want to use a closed-source browser for the same reason I don't want to use a closed-source OS, among other reasons.
I think determining which browser is more secure is more complex than simply checking a vulnerabilities list. There are all sorts of other variables and factors that play into the number, which may or may not be representative of reality.
Opera seems like a good bunch of people, so I'm not especially worried about their doing anything malicious. But when there are excellent open-source alternatives, why even bother?
If you truly don't care about Free Software, then you have missed the point, and I wouldn't expect you to care about open-source browsers. I think that Free Software is better in principle, in theory, and in practice. It's more future-proof than being locked-in to any company's closed-source software. And as time goes on, it will become even more important, because the power of marketing and media and government conglomerates will continue to grow, and Free Software is nearly the only way to retain user freedoms and privacy, and control over one's own hardware, software, and data.
"Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
I use Chrome, Firefox, and Opera regularly with Opera being my primary. Here is my run down:
Firefox: Powerfully extend-able, but slow and slower as you extend it. Rock solid display of websites and great set of developer tools. I'm really looking forward to FF4.
Chrome: Chrome is fast, illustrating that speed is a core part of user experience. It does the basics well and is a joy to use. The developer tools have some neat features built in.
Opera: Opera innovates. Most popular features in other browsers started off in Opera. Opera loads pages quickly, which is great, but it also has a UI that works faster (mouse gestures, speed dial bound with ctrl keys, magic wand info population, keyword shortcuts for search engine searches, etc.) Plus, you have the kitchen sink if you want it and it all is well designed (built in mail, feed, chat, torrents, media sharing, notes, private tabs, image blocking, flash blocking, mult-device sync, etc). Not perfect though, it has a "light" feel that I don't like (like using a plastic tool) and some websites block it (recommending other "safer" browsers like IE 6). Chrome will let a tab fail and the browser keeps going-- if Opera fails the whole thing is going down.
IE: IE is the sole domain of businesses who think that by associating with a Microsoft product they are somehow safer. It has no place on the web and won't until developers can stop using conditional codes to make it render pages properly (and fortunately, IE8 isn't so far away from that and *fingers crossed* IE 9 might be it)
Safari: I love Safari-- just like Chrome, it is simple but reliable. In fact, I think its Webkit engine displays pages more consistently than FF. Though not as fast as Chrome it's still fairly quick. The only problem with Safari is that it comes from Apple, which is the devil.
Yay for shilling for a free utility...
I'm sure he did...
I dont get it. Why all these comparisons to Chrome? Opera has been around ('94) since before google.com was registered in '97, not to mention when Chrome was first released (2008). What makes Chrome the de-facto standard browser to compare to, when everyone really should be comparing themselves to Opera (considering the number of features that have been ripped from Opera by Firefox, Explored AND Chrome inclusive)? I look forward to the day (which of course will never come) when reviews of the next Chrome/Firefox/Explorer release will be ridden with comparisons to Opera. I seriously think people should appreciate the work of the Opera developers more and realize what they have contributed to the browser experience of every Internet user on the planet today (Explorer/Firefox/Chrome users inclusive).
They do the same thing to me. Somehow they know how to time it so that I get them in inverse proportion to my having the time or the desire to use them.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
xkcd link
this sig has intentionally been left blank
And Opera 11 *STILL* can not display 'streaming' video from webcams like the Panasonic Network Cameras, USB cams using Webcam32, etc. The last version where this worked reasonably well was v10.10. It just pisses me off that they can add tab stacking and all sorts of crud that is pretty useless (to me) and can't seem to do simple stuff that Firefox and older version of Opera do well. I've been using Opera as my usual browser since v5 (or maybe earlier, I'm old and can't remember) and like it a lot but this one thing annoys me so muck I'm about to jump ship for Firefox or something else that will fill my daily needs.
I'm tired of the browser wars and smartphone battles - it's the addons and apps that make the difference. Been using FF too long and some features are now so natural to my browsing habits that I can't (didn't say "won't") consider any other browser that apart from the usual Adblocking, Noscript, Ghostery etc security addons does not offer at least:
1. Hyperwords (integrating the Internet like it is meant to be, an immersion to a total hypertext experience)
2. Autopager (to end the endless segmentation of reality into easily digestible bits and pages)
3. YetAnotherSmoothScrolling (to bring back the paper-like hardware buffer based motion of the screen from the Amiga days)
4. Stylish (to make the horrible eye-straining white themes of the usual suspect sites more readable)
5. A truly portable version allowing to easily copy the installation around all my PCs without having to reinstall everything (including bookmarks etc) from scratch (thank you Portableapps.com!)
IMHO all of the above should by now have become standard integrated features of any browser - hell, it's been 17 years since NCSA Mosaic. Thank you FF developers of these addons!
Extensions were nice when they first appeared on Firefox. Then they become a pain, causing all sorts of problems. Your Firefox is crashing too often? Try disabling the extensions! Your Firefox is eating up your RAM? Try disabling the extensions! Headache? Have you tried disabling the extensions? I really liked browsers who stand out of extensions bandwagon, but now it's really hard to find one: Chrome, Safari even Opera have them now. I don't need to change my Twitter status form the extensions, or to learn about latest whether updates. I usually use my browser to surf the web.
This doesn't seem to get mentioned much.. I like Opera because i can hit F4 have a side tab pop out that contains a built in EMAIL system (virtual searches), bookmarks, notes, contacts, widgets, unite (merging/sharing data between computers), downloads, and history.. The mail has always been my favorite. It's embedded so that I do not have to start yet another applicaiton. It's sophisticated and easy to use..
Opera 11 has a new look to it's mail that is starting to really grow on me.. 11 also seems more stable than 10. I0 seemed to have frequent crashes on my linux box.
I also like opera because when they come out with new releases, you get upgraded flawlessly.
Also, not sure about other browsers, being a keyboard shortcut guy, it's easy to do stuff with the keyboard. E.g. spacebar pages to the bottom of the screen, click it once more and it figures out what the next link is and takes you there. E.g. you are looking at photos and have to click NEXT. You can just keep clicking spacebar. Numerous other keys are also very convenient.
Rendering is also very fast in 11. Also, for many years, any page can be blown up or reduced simply by pressing + or - keys. When I get eye fatigue, this really helps.
Over many years, I've made Opera my browser choice because they are always trying something new and succeeding. When other browsers were stuck in the mud, they consistently create new features that people like... example? Oh stuff like TABS! ?
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
That's weird, maybe it is your version of Chromium? I've recently switched to Comodo Dragon thanks to Mozilla with their "don't care, won't fix" attitude with regards to low rights mode in Vista and Win 7. It is also based on Chromium, has all the "phone home" crap cut out, and as a nice bonus offers you the choice of using the Comodo secure DNS which black holes the IP addresses of malicious spammers, scammers, and other nasties. If you are on Windows I would heartedly recommend it, it is quite nice and Adblock for Chrome works beautifully.
As for TFA, while I wish Opera nothing but luck something about their UI has always struck me as being...off. I don't know how to describe it, my oldest loves it so every time a new one comes out I give it a try on his machine but just never have been able to "get" Opera. It always feels like I'm fighting the thing. Maybe it is just one of those "love it or hate it" kind of things with no middle ground. Frankly with Chrome and Chromium I have a feeling both Opera and FireFox are gonna be in for a serious fight, Firefox because of their "cross platform or GTFO" attitude with regards to codecs and low rights mode. I mean why should I risk my customer's security just so Firefox can sit on their high horse about an OS that doesn't bloody need low rights mode anyway? And as for Opera their big selling point was speed, which frankly IMHO is mattering less and less daily. Mozilla is gonna have crazy JavaScript speed in Firefox 4, Chromium based browsers are already crazy fast, really how much fricking faster can we get? You still have to depend on a person to push the button, which means my Dragon is already faster than this old greybeard.
And allow me to finish since I'm already in my old and crotchety mode, that FF and Opera speeding up JavaScript without increasing security by using things like low rights mode seems horribly irresponsible to me. I mean we see time and time again that "JavaScript malware o' the day" is quickly getting right up there with Adobe products on the list of "things to bite you in the ass" and just means by cranking the JavaScript to 11 you are gonna make the machine get pwned really really REALLY fast, which just doesn't seem like a useful feature IMHO. At least IE and Chromium based browsers like Chrome, SWIron, Dragon, all use low rights mode to isolate the browser from the rest of the system. It just seems to me as Windows 7 replaces XP with tech like UAC, DEP, ASLR, and file and registry virtualization, the browser by virtue of it being so close to "bare metal" with the net will become the #1 attack vector if it isn't already. Anything the browser maker can do that limits the ability to be attacked is great in my book. And I apologize if Opera managed to sneak low rights mode in, but after doing a Yahoo Search all I found was folks complaining about FF and Opera not having it.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I would argue that it does affect 99% of users (or whatever large majority you choose), because when someone takes that code and starts a new project (Netscape->Firefox, Konqueror->WebKit, WebKit->Chrome, Linux->Debian, Debian->Ubuntu, etc), it goes on to affect many, many people. Just because 99.9% of end users won't end up writing or compiling code is not the point at all. It's the people that end up using and benefiting from the software.
If we just gave up and used closed-source software, we'd be stuck with IE, maybe Opera (probably without extensions), and even the Mac OS might not be where it is today, based on BSD (free software often ends up benefiting proprietary software, depending on the license). Not to mention how by far the majority of the Internet runs on Linux--I shudder to think what the Internet would be like if we were stuck with IIS and the like!
No offense intended--but I think to say that to say that open-source software doesn't matter is incredibly short-sighted and naive. History and the present have shown otherwise. It saddens me whenever I hear people downplay its significance and blindly gulp down their proprietary punch. Sustainable, future-oriented, and freedom-oriented computing lies with free software. We need to support its development with, if nothing else, our "feet", lest it slip into obscurity due to the ignorance of the masses.
"Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
" This video contains content from mgm, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. Sorry about that. "
Nice tip on Comodo Dragon browser - I use browsers as "sandboxed homepages", and I haven't added any good new ones for a while.
However, I am a classic menu fan. Is there an add-on or option that puts a classic menu bar on top of these browsers?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'd hardly call the new address bar "better". By default, it only shows part of the address, but that can be turned off. What can't be turned off, however, is this bug that turns part of the address grey, leaving only the top-level domain and a few subdomains black ("slashdot.org" in slashdot's case).
I had some trouble with the Opera 10 series, see a couple of my other posts. I'm going to give Opera 11 a fair tryout.
Keep in mind that all kinds of things break when you compare Mac vs Windows implementations of stuff. It really is like British-American accents on english - most of it is fine, then some thing throws you.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
It does look better than the 10 series too, so per elsewhere I'm going to try it out. Hard to say on polish vs Firefox, I think that's where themes comes in.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Yes, but it's the most numerically advanced browser.
I thought of that too, but the volume scale on my amplifier is calculated in dB. Confuses the hell out of people that the number gets "smaller" as it gets noisier, but people just don't notice that "-" sign... ;-)
Opera is a fine browser, my only wish is for hardware acceleration, but everything works well as it is nevertheless. I switched to it after ditching Firefox, because FF is rapidly becoming the number one target for malware. A victim of its own success I would say. So I reckon a browser with 2.5% market share is not a great target for malware writers. This is confirmed by my real-time security scanner (Secunia PSI) which tells me that it's the safest of the installed browsers, with IE and FF having gaping holes with NO known remedies...
In Opera you can toggle the classic menu with Alt+F11.
Well..Opera goes to 11!
What person will donate an airborne act of love?
>>The things that annoy me is that it uses shift + ctrl to open a new tab instead of the defacto standard ctrl
>Tools -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Shortcuts -> (Keyboard Setup) Edit
No, it doesn't.
You have to do a hack with User Javascript, which then means your UI changes depending on whether you have Javascript turned on or off.
I thought they would have added UI shortcuts from other browsers for the 11 release if they wanted to make a play for a wider audience.
Yes, I know there's the middle-click thing, but people still want Ctrl+Click because it's more ergonomic for them.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
>What's even stranger is that I've read the majority of Opera's operating revenue comes from Google,
What, really? I thought it was from payed preloads of Opera browsers on mobile phones/devices.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
"Starting Opera 10 as a normal user triggers UAC randomly." - by vlueboy (1799360) on Saturday December 18, @09:56PM (#34604398)
See my subject-line above... I wonder WHY you do? Windows 7 64 bit user here too, no less. It's the SAME HERE on Linux (KUbuntu 10.10.x 64-bit user here also), no nags from its "UAC implementation" (for lack of a better expression here I used UAC as the analog).
Personally, just based on MY personal experiences in that regard, because I have never, EVER, seen UAC bother me on Windows (using it since Windows 3.x here) &/or in combination while using Opera (since version 4.x no less)?
Well - it seems YOU or Your system has other problems (or, you don't know what you're doing - not a cut-down, but, I never EVER see what you complain of, & I've been using Opera since version 4.x)...
---
"Hard to believe the devs caused that since Opera doesn't know how to seamlessly automatically update itself" - by vlueboy (1799360) on Saturday December 18, @09:56PM (#34604398)
Go to Opera's HELP menu, & the "Check for Updates" submenu... problem solved!
---
"or inform you why UAC is needed and why you need to cooperate." - by vlueboy (1799360) on Saturday December 18, @09:56PM (#34604398)
Again, per the start of my reply to you: I NEVER SEE UAC nag me on Windows regarding Opera... NOR do I see it on Linux even (violating it's "least privilege" restriction model either).
APK
P.S.=> Earlier this month, You also made a mistake regarding Windows defender & HOSTS files also, & I replied to you here on that much as well (allow/deny lists EXIST in Windows Defender &/or Microsoft Security Essentials IF you need them) - use that post below, it may help you (it will):
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907528&cid=34573764
apk
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907528&cid=34573764
You also made a mistake, one I see many folks do, on HOSTS files (you didn't cut off the DNS Client Side cache, & that's why you saw a "lag" with HOSTS files (larger ones demand you turn off the DNS clientcache, smaller ones do not, & that's all covered very well & in detail, here -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm )
APK
P.S.=> Another fellow did on Windows Defender, here -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1903798&cid=34559886 so, sorry for confusing you w/ he in this case... but, nevertheless? The problem you saw with HOSTS files is most likely due to that which is in the FIRST url above! apk
(By a Chrome user, who also sometimes uses FF, Opera, and Chromium)
-Nice menu. Press Alt to get access to the whole menu without it taking up a lot of space.
-Quick preferences. The most used settings, accesible either from the menu or F12. Toggle Javascript with F12-J. You may not even miss NoScript.
-Trashcan for closed tabs. Ingenious.
-Thumbnail preview when you hover over a tab.
-Fonts work right on Ubuntu. That's only true for Midori, Opera, and a 1 year old version of Chrome.
-Easy on the CPU. Google Maps or other Javascript pages down cause the fan to turn, unlike Chromium or FF on Ubuntu. I usually use Opera for Javascript pages for this reason.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
-Slow. (Subjective). It's slower than Chrome to show something (anything) on a page than Chrome.
-Shortcuts aren't set up out of the box to function like other browsers. Once nice thing about Chrome when I first started using it is that just about all the shortcuts from other browers "just worked" out of the box. There's no shortcut customizer, but it's not really required.
-No Ctrl+click to open links in new tab. You have to use a Javascript hack to do that.
-Ctrl+PageUp and Ctrl+PageDn aren't set for next/prev tab. I know you can set it in keyboard options, but that's a huge dialog with confusing terminology for browser actions that you can easily mistake for other actions. Defaults matter.
-The mouse arrow doesn't change to a selection cursor when you hover over text, as in Chrome & Firefox. This makes it slightly hardly to precisely select text starting from a given letter.
-Right-click problems. In Chrome, you right-click a link, the menu appears, the first option is "Open in New Tab", go over it, and release right button. Easy/fast. In Firefox, the same, except that "Open in New Tab" is 2nd after New Window, used less frequently in these days of tabbing. Either way, it's just one click.
In Opera, it's ridiculous: Right click on a link. Then you have to release the button to get the menu to show. After the menu shows, "Open in Background Tab" is the 3rd option. Caution, though, don't try to click it with the same finger you just used to right-click. You have to left-click it or it doesn't take. (Not so with Chrome or FF.) Not even geeks should be subject to mouse aerobics, much less kids or your parents.
-Search. Ctrl+F and type something. The search words are highlighted, which is good, but it shades the rest of the screen. Not good. Also grey on grey isn't a great highlight color. Also it doesn't have the scrollbar search hit indicator lines like Chrome.
Opera users: Don't be a fanboi and dismiss these items. If Opera takes care of the above, they can get all the people who don't switch because of annoyances. Also see What's right about Opera.
(Using Opera 11 on Ubuntu 10.04)
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078 , especially on adblocking.
The other poster listed Opera, so allow me to give you the one for Comodo Dragon and other Chromium browsers...install this extension and then just add/remove anything you want. I kind of like how Dragon does everything by extension, it leaves the default slim and one can simply add what they need/want.
I still miss my FF just because I had grown used to it, but I won't use a browser I won't give to my customers and with FireFox taking the "don't care, won't fix" attitude with low rights mode it is simply too unsafe to use on Vista/Windows 7. I mean what's the point of having all that extra security if Mozilla promptly punches a gaping hole in it and then waves their dinosaur winkie in your face?
But if you haven't given it a go and don't mind trying new things give the Dragon a spin. I'm running it right now and their secure DNS seems to be a little faster than both OpenDNS and my ISP DNS, and the browser really handles nicely. I just added ABP and Forecast and it has sync built in, so that pretty much covers the FF extensions I required. Give it a spin, it's nice!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
"Retard troll is retard" - by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19, @10:04AM (#34607108)
See my subject-line above, & realize this: You are "attacking the man" (ad hominem) rather than ANY "technical points" I have made..., & that?
That makes you nothing more than a troll (who shows all he has in "effete retaliation", is name tossing etc.).
---
"Although I neither have had any problems with UAC in Ubuntu or Windows 3.11." - by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19, @10:04AM (#34607108)
LMAO - you ought to try Windows 7 @ least (lol, I only noted Windows 3.x because until VISTA? There wasn't UAC to bother you in any way (UAC = Ms' attempt @ doing "least privelege principal" on Windows, as it is in *NIX variants!)
APK
[NT]
... except for that fact that it STILL does not support CTRL + Click (or an equivalent option) for opening tabs in the background. Really bloody annoying.
To be fair to FF, just because they are not making use of WIC does not mean they are "punching a gaping hole in it".
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
That only happens to me with Slashdot... Same with the stupid copy and paste bug. Every other page works fine.
As for speed, I don't think it really matters anymore. I can't really tell the difference between Safari, Chrome/ium, and Firefox. I haven't used Opera lately, but I'm guessing it is more of the same. Browser choice has really become just that; an arbitrary choice based on preference.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078 especially on AdBlock and NoScript browser addons alone (which are decent to use for "layered security" WITH hosts files, but hosts does more on its own vs. Adblock especially, by FAR, for more security & speed for users), vs. a HOSTS file (which even corrects DNS security & speed + more problems in DNS).
It could be a transient bug or something I suppose. I generally grab the bleeding edge Chromium releases each week or two and I've been having the scroll-lag issue for a while (it's really noticeable on Slashdot, say if I have the main page up and open a story with lots of posts in the background).
I'm not sure what to say about Opera. I personally like it because it's fast all around and I really love having so much functionality built right in. I've grown used to having a lot of the little things like the notes panel, userjs, mail client, sync, mouse gestures, easily customized UI and so on that whenever I use Chromium for anything, I find myself inadvertently hitting Opera shortcut keys or performing mouse gestures. Still, I think Chromium is a solid browser and I do use it fairly regularly, but it's not ready to replace Opera for me yet. I used to be a heavy Firefox user years ago from Phoenix 0.1 to Firefox 3.0 something, but found it to start having an increasing number of problems after about the 1.5 to 2.0 period.
Anyhow, thanks for the Comodo link. I didn't even know they had a browser and I'll be sure to check it out. I like their firewall software, so they get bonus points.
Oh Lord, its you, the crazy hosts file troll. What do you think this is, 1997? What are you on Win98 First Edition or something? I mean WTF, nobody uses your tired old crap anymore, okay? We have things like Privoxy and Comodo Secure DNS and Peerblock, we don't need some tired old text file bullshit. And don't bring up resources because nobody gives a good wet fart. We have more RAM than God and CPUs with gold plated dangling bits so we really don't give a crap about saving a whole 30KB of resources.
so why don't you go push your tired old leet speak and equally tired old text file down at the goodwill where there are machines old enough that editing text files to save a couple of KB of RAM and CPU might actually be worth it. The rest of us grownups have better things to do, okay junior? I know you think that just because you have found out about a HOSTS file recently makes it the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the rest of us outgrew that shit when you were still sitting in a nappy full of your own poo.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Am I the only person in the world that's still using Omniweb? It has a great tab management system which is similar to opera, it has the workspaces feature which is great and an awesome bookmarking system. If only the Omni group would dedicate a bit more time into keeping it up to date though...
"Whatever exists here is mine..." -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916240&cid=34612834
APK
P.S.=> Including ITT Tech Man, Professor hairyfeet, who got owned by not only proof from myself, but also others here on /., with more by request no less (but, I think what's there does the job - my std. "Kung Fu" has been HUGELY administered, & it was, as-per-my-usual? Just too, Too, TOO EASY... 2 EZ! RofFlMaO... apk
Right click on Opera's shortcut.
Go straight to advanced button.
Click it.
You will see "run as administrator".
(You can set that for anything pretty much really, & on any shortcut, with any switches (easy & GUI) - disregard this, if you already know it (it "relieves pain", lol, sort of like how it's done in Linux too, via SUDO tty terms or via GUI entry of a pwd, just like UAC (pain))).
APK
P.S.=> Yes, it's bypassing UAC, but sometimes you can if you know an app's safe - if what you're seeing is a hassle (I just had to mention it as others have here, I don't see it, hope you're not infected somehow (almost sounds it, sort of, with your statement about UAC bugging out to Opera - if you see this again? Send it to Opera, you can submit reports too, & email screenshots, etc./et al))... apk
To bury facts it had in Opera's favor??
APK
P.S.=> That's how I see it, unless someone utterly disputes or disproves any of the sources I used in my statements of fact... apk
versus facts here? Your mod-down is effete b.s. -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916450&cid=34607078
APK
P.S.=> If the "best you have" is down modding a post with concrete & verifiable facts in it, then you need your head examined (to whoever downmodded my post)... apk
I really hate that FF and Opera are promoted as so much more secure than IE, yet they don't take advantage of the new security models used in Chrome and IE8/9. It's like running your desktop machine on the internet without a firewall, because the OS vendor says that your listening services are secure. The low rights security model provides another layer of security which the exploit writers must deal with...and can therefore stop a larger range of attacks.
Today while browsing with the IE9 beta I suddenly saw the Java2 Runtime Environment snd Adobe Reader load, which I instantly knew that a drive by exploit was attempting to leverage them. Both software products were the most current versions and were exploited successfully. The exploit fsiled to install it's payload however, because it was stuck in a low privilege container which it could not write outside of.
I think the main problem is the fact that a low rights model requires significant changes to the browser's design and code. FireFox and Opera slso run on many different platforms and it may be much more difficult to keep their codebase in sync if some use the new model and others don't.
It also seems like a lot of the browser development lately is being focused around statistics and bragging rights for being the fastest or most compatible at something (like Javascript or HTML5). Since there's no statistic that can be generated for "number of exploits prevented", they can all just say they are the most secure browser and no one can prove it either way.
The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
Sadly, yes.
Though the level of validity of your post has forced me to reconsider my view points, and now my life is fulfilled, everything is clear and beautiful like the morning sun rising on the most splendiferous scenes of natural beauty. Clearly Opera is GOD's own browser, and was used to upload Jesus to this fine earth. I bow my head in shame, sir.
Further, the presentation smoothed the intake of your informative emissions like butter on a shit sandwich.
I truly have many things to learn.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Good: "Why use closed software?"
Because it offers something useful and unique
(or at least distinctive).
Among other characteristics, I love how I can
radically change the UI to suit my working style,
without extensions -- e.g., listing tabs in a
vertical stack which doesn't truncate the titles,
and easily toggling showing & hiding them.
And yet, every time there's a mjor release
(going back at least six years),
I try it and eventually abandon it,
because it's still what I call "workspace-oblivious".
For the manner in which I work, it's a
real problem that Opera doesn't conform to
the drag-and-drop conventions seen in the
behavior of other apps.
-- FROM a page in Opera, I can drag a link (or an
address-bar item) only to the desktop, not to a
folder icon, an open folder window, a foreign browser,
or an app such as a media player.
-- TO Opera, I can drag icons only from the desktop
or from an open folder, not from a foreign browser.
I don't have those limitations with Firefox,
and it makes a genuine and substantial difference in
my productivity.