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Can Zuckerberg Leap the Great Firewall of China?
Hugh Pickens writes "The Guardian reports that Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is in China and has met with Robin Li, the head of Baidu, as he toured the facility of the biggest search engine in China. Zuckerberg has made no secret of his desire to expand in China, where Facebook has been blocked by the government censors' Great Firewall since 2008. On a recent global map of Facebook users, China appeared as a black spot, though it has a bigger internet population than any country on earth. 'How can you connect the whole world if you leave out a billion people?' says Zuckerberg. China already has two Facebook imitators: Kaixin, with 80 million users, and Renren, with 150 million, but these lack the economic clout and global reach of Zuckerberg's company although they do have the advantages of language and cultural awareness, as well as the protection of the Great Firewall. 'If Facebook wanted to enter China, it would not have to change its function, because netizens here are used to copycats already, but it must, like other international internet companies, obey Chinese laws and regulations,' said Hu Yong, a professor at Beijing University's School of Journalism and Communication."
Facebook allows way too much communication and freedom. Both are dangerous to their regime.
Mark ZuckeNberg?? How the hell did so many spelling mistakes slip through the net?
"How can you connect the whole world if you leave out a billion people?"
China's response will probably be something along the lines of "How can you modify Facebook so that we are not only able to censor it but violators are automatically reported to a government agency?" Time and time again it's been demonstrated in China: if you can play ball, you're in.
The quote following the above is pretty indicative of what Zuckerberg fails to understand:
"Our theory is that if we can show that we as a western company can succeed in a place where no other country has, then we can start to figure out the right partnerships we would need to succeed in China on our terms."
So naive. It's that simple, huh? You weren't paying attention when Google went in, made friends with scholars and scientists and was promptly put in their place when the government tired of their novelty?
You're the copycat now, Mark. You are going to go into China thinking that you're are going to turn the tide and you're going to be met with the same immovable wall anyone who has sought to change the PRC has faced. But what you are going to have to do is look at how the Facebook copycats have served up private data and fingering individuals for putting the wrong number in their status update. And you're pretty much going to be told what to do and either you're going to do it or you're going to be back at square one. You're an outsider coming into China so you might as well drop the whole "This is how it's going to change" attitude. You're just going to be embarrassed when you find out that any deviation to their laws and customs puts your right to host a website at risk in their country.
"A western company can succeed in a place where no other country has?" So what are you going to do different? Congratulations, you made friends with Baidu. All that means is now someone can tell you the optimal way to achieve vertical height when the CCP screams "JUMP!"
My money is on you going in there thinking you're going to relax censorship only to find out that you're going to be one of their ultimate tools to enforce it. And then there's going to be this massive pile of money on the table and you can either take that and expand in China by wiping your ass with morals and ethics or you can walk away. I bet you get on your knees and bark like a dog while spinning it as a 'Western company succeeding!' And if you want the most money, that's exactly what you should do!
My work here is dung.
Kinda funny really. Facebook too is all about intrusion into your personal life. The big difference is that China does it for political control while Facebook does it for money. Imagine if they fully team up. Ouch.
P.S. The opposite of both China and Facebook? The Metagovernment of course.
All he needs to do is enforce censorship and turn over all private data to the government.
Changed his name, did he?
Maybe they'll figure out like the CIA that tracking the wants of every citizen then throwing in things like facial recognition is a good thing, for government.
Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
I know scores of people in China that use Facebook on a daily basis . . . .
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
"How can you connect the whole world if you leave out a billion people?" says Zuckerberg
How can you connect the whole world if you leave out an idea?
BTW kudos to the editors on "Zuckenberg" that one made me LOL
... but only with enough Blinkenlights.
He changed his name to Zuckenberg to fool the Chinese censors who were triggering the firewall based on his name. PS: Zuckerberg means "suger mountain" in German. Zuckenberg means "twitch mountain", a much cooler name.
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
and they call it kaixin ('happy net'): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaixin001
That is even a bargain price!
doesn't sound much fun. Either you are going to be very boring, or you will always be testing the limits of an authoritarian regime. Neither of which can last for very long.
It's like wearing an alcohol detector bracelet at a beer garden during Oktoberfest.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I disagree with the sentiment that Zuck will balk under the money pressure. Well, THAT kind of money pressure.
Hate him, love him, or fall somewhere in the middle, I really cant argue that he has made many financial missteps. And if wants to open his pocketbook to 1.7 billion more people, conceding a few things may not be the worst of ideas. Its not like Google couldnt have made it work, they just wouldnt play by the host country's rules. How is that being put in their place? And how is it different when the US puts Google in its place?
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
I bet you get on your knees and bark like a dog while spinning it as a 'Western company succeeding!'
Chinaman1: Ha ha... stupid greedy Amerikan... I make him bark like dog.
Chinaman2: Okay. Let not be too cruel. Give him treat now.
Chinaman1: Ok Zucky, here your bone.
Chinaman2: Aww... he wagging his tail
Chinaman1: Ok, time for dinner now.
Chinaman3: Good, me make dog stew. (grabs cleaver)
You know the story of how he cheated the two Harvard guys by working on Facebook instead of their HarvardConnect site, most probably stealing plenty of ideas in the process. Everyone who knows that story already knows he has no morals or ethics. This is just a PR stunt to publicly justify his next expensive ass-wiping.
how is babby formed?
What most Americans don't understand is that outside the major cities (Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou,Shenzhen, etc... ) which has a combined population of a hundred million or so, the rest of the country lives in poverty - it's a Third World Country. Those people have very little money - meaning, all the advertising you're planning on doing is wasted on people who can't afford what you're advertising.
...as we'll soon all be within the Great Firewall of China.
Only the Chinese government will have to tighten theirs a notch or two, to comply with DMCA, RIAA, DHS, ThinkOfTheChildren, whatever.
Being the jolly sort of people they are, they'll be happy to oblige.
(What sort of sentient beast this captcha machine is: "consent")
Why is Zuckerberg being worshipped as the saviour and freedom fighter for the Internet and all its denizens?
Sorry, I don't mean to troll, but even looking at this article's title, it seems clear that it's expected that only Zuckerberg is able to break down the walls and barriers into China, and destroy a government which opposes the Western World's points of view and politics, and instead fill China was happy rainbow bunnies and unicorns that happily cooperate with people with wildly differing points of view.
Rant over, feel free to feed the troll, I suppose.
I used to live in China, so I personally know quite a few Chinese people. And loads of them have facebook accounts (and use them regularly) And these aren't people necessarily tech-savvy enough to work around the firewall with proxies, etc...they just use facebook.
So, while I doubt this story is completely wrong or made up, I don't understand. Do they block it in some places and not others? Do I just know a few weird outliers that somehow managed to view it despite it being blocked? Is there something more to the story? I don't get it.
is part myth and FUD spun by capitalist media and governments to suit their own ends and backed up by the chinese who want to show the illusion of control?
But I thought only Nixon could go to China
Then don't don't write the article. And don't post it.
Furthermore, "two Facebook imitators"!? I'm sorry, have you completely forgotten MySpace and Friendster? Do you consider Wolfenstein a "Doom-clone"?
I've got to chaulk this one up to the cash cult. Someone makes a buck and so they must be a god.
As far as I know, facebook wasn't banned until the 2008 Tibet riot, when facebook was used to rally people to anti-government demonstrations. As said in the summary, a facebook clone, Renren, is extremely popular in China with 150 million users, among other social networking sites such as dating-oriented ones. It has pretty much all the fancy features of facebook plus its own innovations, but it's NOT censored, because i) Most of its users are Chinese. What Chinese government really fears is the connection with foreigners in the case of Facebook and Twitter. Though it sounds paradoxical, most people calling for more democracy and freedom in China are foreigners and Chinese expatriates in western countries, rather than people within China who tend to be rather indifferent. ii) Renren is the product an indigenous company in China. Therefore the government naturally expects that the company is more cooperative and controllable. LinkedIn is obviously also not banned, because its scope is limited to professional activities. It's not likely that people will use it to promote anti-government demonstrations. In short, social networking is big business in China and censorship is very selective.
What you don't understand.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
Let's go over this obvious question:
Things missing from Zuckerberg:
Morals
Ethics
Concern for fellow humans if he cannot profit from this in some way
Shit, he's all set to leap the firewall, on to the next obvious question of the day from a "journalist"
too young, too inexperienced. 3 - 5 years max
Zuckerburg: Mr. Jintao, tear down that wall! (And sign up for my ridiculously useless and exploitative web service!)
Zuckerberg wants to get into the Chinese market, but he also wants more cooperation with search engines. Through a cooperation with F*c*book, Baidu could expand outside of China. Double win for Zuckerberg, he always had problems with "don't be evil".
but he should be very aware of the dogs once he's at the other side.
again, I will have to thoroughly second this article:
I wish there was a hell :-(
There is, it's called "defeatism".
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
I agree. Zuckerberg is the douchey greedhead we all knew back in our IT/CompSci college courses, who seemed to be a wannabe-web-boomer late to the party, who had sweet talk that could sell a fridge to an Eskimo but barely struggled through the coursework and rode on everyone else's coattails in group projects. Normally he'd now be working in the area of IT that requires high sleaze and low technical skill - sales.
But the difference here is that Zuckerberg's little project was picked up by the global fad cycle and now he's a multi-bajillionaire. Imagine how awful it would be if the Zuckerberg you knew back in college struck it rich by accident x_x
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I believe the Chinese government would love Facebook: all those people offering up the intimate details
Perhaps what they'll like most is to get access to some data that is *not* from Chinese citizens. Anyway I don't see how things with China and the West will end well, with both having contradicting rigged rules of the same rigged game, and mountains of weapons and no good intentions. Most companies, and slowly countries, just end up as controlled suppliers of skills, technology, a few parts, all the customers, and a lot of money. "Open markets" were always a rigged game, and just became a fool's game when China plays with their rules.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Given my experience with having accounts on Facebook deleted without any reason being given and the latest being a request for and I quote here...
>>>
We apologize, but the only way we will be able to verify ownership of this account is if you reply to this email with an attachment of scanned, government-issued photo identification confirming your full name and date of birth. If you do not have access to a scanner, a digital image of your photo ID will be accepted as well. Rest assured that we will permanently delete your ID from our servers once we have used it to verify the authenticity of your account.
Again, please note that we will not be able to process your request unless you send in proper identification. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
Thanks,
Liam
User Operations
Facebook
<<<
Government Issued ID... WTF... Who is that being passed onto? A student email and a credit card are NOT enough?
You would have rocks in your head to participate in Facebook from China under those conditions.
Many in the US would like to see the captain of FBi hop over that wall, and into treasonous territory. After having damaged the reasonable privacy rights of people all over the world and gotten rich doing so, its time for Karma to serve him
China is the right place for this to happen.
And captain FBi surname name invites a pun, as goes naked into treason forest, all unweeting.
Meh, after reading http://time.com/poy 's spread on Zuckerberg, (hey, I was on a 5-hour flight, and had first read all the runner-ups and practically all of the other articles), I actually don't feel so badly about him anymore. I still don't really care for FB, but people use it, so that's why I maintain a presence there. But the TIME article helped vet out some of the theory and philosophy behind it, which was more useful than most of the third-hand descriptions I get about Zuckerberg from the various protests and even "The Social Network" movie I didn't bother seeing.
Where the fuck did you get the idea that anyone working at Facebook has morals?
cares, facebook doesnt do any good to innovation, it just turns the whole net into a cheap cellphone
beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)