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iBook Store Features Leave Indie Publishers Behind

jfruhlinger writes "Apple has introduced some new features to its iBooks store in order to make illustrations and fixed layouts possible — something particularly important for children's books. But at the moment, it seems these features are only available for big publishers, not indies. This is not dissimilar from the controversy that brewed over indie labels' access to iTunes LP."

111 of 146 comments (clear)

  1. surprise surprise by Picardo85 · · Score: 1, Informative

    Apple comes and pisses on the little people, yet again !

    1. Re:surprise surprise by KublaiKhan · · Score: 1

      To be fair, there is no obligation by any enterprise to support every person who wishes to make use of it: there are no laws that state you must extend the same level of support to everyone, and there are no laws saying that your business decisions must place ethical treatment of other businesses and individuals over profits.

      Granted, it is more ethically sound to extend the same benefits of access to smaller (and less-profitable) publishers as to the 'big names', but since when has Apple marketed itself as an 'ethical' company?

      Had google made the same decision, they (given their oft-repeated ambitions to 'do no evil') would be roundly--and rightly--criticized: they have made an ethical stand, and as such they need to stick to it.

      Apple has always been after people's money. Apple has always pandered to the least common denominator. Yes, there is no surprise here--just as there will be no surprise when, after a few dozen facebook protests and a bit of bad press, they "decide" to "extend" the functionality in a few months to certain "partner organizations" or however the press release will put it.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    2. Re:surprise surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So MAC people are into water sports? It all makes sense now.

      Yes, we all said "piss on Windows" a long time ago and haven't looked back.

    3. Re:surprise surprise by marcosdumay · · Score: 2

      In lots of countries around the world there are laws against big business negotiating to keep an advantaje out of its rivals reach. As far as I remember, the US is one of those countries.

    4. Re:surprise surprise by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 1

      I'm into scat; I said "shit on Windows" after dealing with Windows 98.

  2. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by pinkj · · Score: 1

    mp3.com? didn't that die as fast as Fred Durst's star power?

  3. They aren't doing this to snub the little guys... by Drakino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know it's cool to be anti Apple on slashdot these days, but does the hatred have to include loss of logic?

    Apple doesn't publish music or books, so in the case of iTunes LP, or the latest iBooks features, they need to work them out fully first. They do this by working with a few big companies, giving them access to rough beta copies of tools and tech specs. By working togther on a few items, Apple can identify and fix issues in a tool or spec before it's widely released. If they just threw out unfinished tools and specs, people would whine about the problems, and also increase Apple's support burden. With a slow and steady rollout, they can do it right, and ensure the mass publishing market has tools or specs that work without requiring direct hand holding via Apple support.

  4. Dammit! by BigBadBus · · Score: 1

    Looks like won't be on iBooks any time soon. Thank God for Kindle :-)

    1. Re:Dammit! by mark72005 · · Score: 1

      Proprietary X says "You suck!" to Proprietary Y

    2. Re:Dammit! by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      The difference is indie publishers can push out various forms of content for the Kindle that include whatever features the Kindle has. Not so with iBooks.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    3. Re:Dammit! by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      You might want a proofreader there. It should be passengers' as there's more than one of them.

  5. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by poetmatt · · Score: 2

    wha?

    lots of people have never bought apple/itunes products in the first place. Things such as buying mp3s, buying ebooks, buying things at set prices, buying video games at retail prices, these are things that most people who are fairly technically savvy have never dealt with and never will. For them, this is much ado about nothing. Also, this tech savvy crowd grows everyday.

  6. And next week... by DIplomatic · · Score: 2

    [Apple] is only providing information on how to create fixed layout ebooks for it's store to a select group of publishers and ebook producers."

    And a week from now when that information finds its way to the internet the headline will be "All Authors Able to Publish Fixed-Width iBooks"

    1. Re:And next week... by pilgrim23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I recall back in the dim dark days of the 1970s a book I had on 9 track tape recorded there from IBM cards via a utility IEBGENER. Still have that tape...... I recall back in the 1980s a book I had on a 5.25 floppy recorded in Fredwriter in ProDOS on an Apple II. Still have that Floppy........ I recall a book I had in Newton Book format pruchased to read on my 2100. Still have that book (remind me to change the Newton’s battery)....... I recall a book I bought that was published in 1629 . of all the formats I have listed ONLY THAT ONE is still readable. Now we have various E-Book formats. Oh Joy. Do I need to make space on the closet shelf for these too?

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    2. Re:And next week... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      That is because you didn't care to format shift the other books into the newer standards. If you kept an ebook collection at whatever media you find most usefull at each time, and shifted the collection every time you migrated to other storage technology, all of them would still be readable.

      What, of course, reminds of all that DRM nonsense...

    3. Re:And next week... by mad_minstrel · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you had bothered to properly migrate your data as you stepped away from media formats throughout the years, all of those would still be perfectly readable. In fact, keeping a closet with old media is a ridiculous waste of space considering all of the data inside would probably fit nicely on a small home NAS. Leaving media formats behind is like moving to a new home. If you don't take your stuff with you, don't expect it to magically show up when you want it. I've already archived all of the data I ever originally had on CDs. Have you?

      --
      May the source be with you.
    4. Re:And next week... by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      the 1629 book (First English edition of Terrence) is worth about twice what I initially paid for it. This cannot be said for any of the others, and Free Bonus! can STILL Be READ!

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
  7. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by jfengel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What exactly did Apple do to mp3.com? Indie artists are welcome to make their music available through any mechanism they like: youtube, myspace, facebook, etc.

    Or rather, they're welcome to sit in obscurity in any way they like. The RIAA is NOT a music industry. It's a promotions industry. They exist to make music famous, a process which costs a vast sum of money. And until relatively recently, it was a profitable business model, which never went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.

    If they've managed to take hold of the most famous platform for music, that's just what they do. But opening it more for indies isn't going to make them famous, which is what they crave. They can be ignored in iTunes with equal vigor to the way they've been ignored on youtube (and, for that matter, in bars and cafes) for a long time.

    The Long Tail is a dream sold to small artists. The technology means that they've been able to raise their income from "nothing" to "next to nothing". Because the thing to remember about the Long Tail is that it's very, very, very long, and you're sitting out there somewhere in the middle of it. You wanna sit on the bigger hump, you spend money to do it. A _lot_ of money.

    The independent market never "thrived". The artists were, statistically speaking, all starving. Even some extraordinarily talented ones making great music.

    Technological change may be able to kill off the RIAA's fame-producing industry, but it's not like indie artists are in some sort of close second place raring to take over first.

  8. Steve Jobs hates poor people. by orphiuchus · · Score: 1, Troll

    Its the only explanation.

  9. Re: dramatic by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While inspiring, I just have a tough time really assembling behind your battle cry.

    Before Apple, big labels and publishers have been working to screw over independants and/or exploit them in any means possible, so I find it hard to really find "Boycotting Apple" as the solution to the actual problem. Apple is just riding the bandwagon, tagging along, trying to get a piece of the pie.

    I would much rather have more people go independant (as the music trend seems to be, more and more bands are leaving the big labels, or starting their own labels, or indie labels supporting other indie bands). It's not so much that people need to boycott certain publishers, its that the artists, authors, musicians, etc etc - they need to stop feeding the publishers with content to sell. Starve them out on content, not sales. Because consumers are idiots, there will always be people willing to buy the shiniest product, or spending for the sake of spending. There is no real way to cause a boycott that way. But once the Indie market thrives because thats where the best content is, with the best delivery system - thats when we'll see real progress.

    I will usually hear a song from a band I like on the radio. Whether or not they are on iTunes doesn't make a huge difference to me, I won't like them less because I can't get their tracks through that ONE distribution method. Best Alternative? Have a website, where they handle their own song/download/transactions - as some bands have started doing, or even better, if they offer the CD for free knowing it'll drive Concert sales. There's so many ways to deliver content around iTunes its baffling that it has as much sway as it does.

  10. Will they accept you at all? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Apple accepts book from anyone who can generate ePub. Is the same true of the Kindle? It would be nice for Apple to also release details on the format enhancement but if they are exactly as open as any other company, and then merely add some other capability on top of that Apple restricts - why is Apple evil when they help out indies as much as any other company?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Will they accept you at all? by KublaiKhan · · Score: 1

      I've been looking into small-scale publishing, so I actually have an answer for this:

      Nope.

      Kindle accepts .mobi, but the spiffy Amazon features are a little bit locked down for outsiders.

      nook and most everybody else will accept epub, though. Smashwords has some interesting agreements with ebook retailers, where they will submit your book to several different outlets for a (rather reasonable) cut of the sales.

      Once I finish editing my book, I think I may well go with them.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
  11. Re:Chapter 1 by mark72005 · · Score: 1

    According to posts yesterday, this link leads to a virus in PDF. Don't click it.

  12. Indies should form the IMAA or United Artists. by elucido · · Score: 1

    Independent music artists association. Independent writers association.

    And get into the game.

    1. Re:Indies should form the IMAA or United Artists. by jfengel · · Score: 1

      Get into what game? The RIAA's game is dying (and good riddance).

      Indie artists don't need an association. What would it do? What indie artists need is fewer indie artists, or rather, a mechanism for people to find them among all the vast numbers of other indie artists.

      Such things exist, like last.fm, though they'll always lack to "I wanna listen because everybody else is listening" factor that made the RIAA's promotions hot (and so boring).

    2. Re:Indies should form the IMAA or United Artists. by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      I appreciate this post and I'm not even British.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    3. Re:Indies should form the IMAA or United Artists. by MareLooke · · Score: 1

      They might lack the "I wanna listen because everybody else is listening", but they do add the "I wanna listen because this guy with a similar taste is listening to it, so I'm gonna check it out", which can be invaluable especially to indie artists I would think.

    4. Re:Indies should form the IMAA or United Artists. by jfengel · · Score: 1

      I'd like to think so, and I'm sure it happens, but it doesn't produce day-job-quitting revenue.

      A decent band produces only a few genuinely good singles a year, and the cost is surprisingly high. It costs at least $1,000 in studio time, and often ten times that much. But even at the low end, if you manage to get your listeners to contribute an average of a dime apiece, you've got to have a small stadium full of followers before you've even paid off the producer. That's a lot closer to the hump side of the long tail.

      If you want to make minimum wage at it, you're talking about having 25,000 or more followers willing to contribute as much as a dime. (It's more likely 1 person contributing a buck per song and 9 more just listening.)

      Getting 25,000 fans isn't something that happens by word of mouth, at least not very often. Segmentation to find your niche is great, but the long tail is VERY long, and VERY segmented.

      The new media have been very good for bands who play for the love of it, and that's been great for those (few) listeners who seek out what they want rather than having their tastes handed to them. But even the pending, unlamented demise of the RIAA isn't going to create any sudden flood of openings for career musicians.

  13. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

    >>>BOYCOTT APPLE.

    Nah. My blacklist is long enough:google, yahoo, microsoft, sony, comcast, ..... Besides Christmas is almost over, so too late to sell my Apple Mac on ebay (I wouldn't get anything). I think I'll just keep it for now. It has 8 gigabytes; that ought to be enough for anybody* and last me a long, long time. Anyway I will not boycott Apple - not just yet.

    *
    * Course I said the same thing about my 8MB Mac Quadra. Hmmm.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  14. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know it's cool to be anti Apple on slashdot these days, but does the hatred have to include loss of logic?

    Have you been reading Slashdot lately? It's nothing but screeching monkeys and poo flinging at the merest mention of Apple.

    People seem to hate Apple nowadays the way they used to hate Microsoft. Heck, half of the things people are saying isn't factually correct -- it's just what they believe. I still see people claiming you can't play MP3s on an iPod.

    I think in many cases, logic has gone completely out the window when Apple is the topic.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  15. Re:Chapter 1 by oldspewey · · Score: 1

    What's the virus?

    --
    If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
  16. They do allow creation from other platforms by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    surely they'd allow users of other operating systems to create apps for iOS?

    They do. You can generate iPhone apps from Flash. That tool can be run on Mac or Windows.

    Now what you are suggesting is Apple is beholden to make the development tools THEY write for Windows. Why should that be the case? Microsoft doesn't produce Visual Studio for the Mac!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  17. Re:who cares about their locked down ecosystem? by gstoddart · · Score: 1, Funny

    Seriously... who'd ever buy stuff like that from Apple?

    You mean, other than the millions of customers they have now and the new ones they get every week?

    Why, practically nobody.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  18. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by mark72005 · · Score: 4, Informative

    How do you get that out of UMG v MP3.com, and what did Apple have to do with deciding it?

    The case was regarding whether the website had the right to use copyrighted music to make ad revenue.

    I find your claim particularly curious since this case was on or about 2000, and the iTunes store did not launch until 2003.

  19. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by mark72005 · · Score: 2

    I think the reason for their confusion is that sales and profitability at Apple are higher than ever.

  20. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by oldspewey · · Score: 1

    Apple is not run for the benefit of their customers, but for the shareholders, executives and their friends.

    So they're like 95% of all the corporations out there then?

    --
    If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
  21. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by Logic+Bomb · · Score: 1

    That works if and only if Apple tells everyone that's what they're doing. While it may be likely based on past experience, you cannot safely assume a company will do anything in particular.

    Innovation often doesn't come from the big guys. Experience so far with the App Store has certainly shown that. There's no good reason for Apple to only look at large publishing operations for input.

  22. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by LodCrappo · · Score: 1

    "does the hatred have to include loss of logic?"

    Its usually hard hate if you let logic get in the way.

    Like most mob trends, the anti-apple movement has some valid points down below all the posturing and silliness, but most of what you see online fails to convey them.

    --
    -Lod
  23. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    "I still see people claiming you can't play MP3s on a Zune."

    Don't think for a second that Microsoft wouldn't do that if MP3 wasn't ubiquitous already. And also don't think for a second that Microsoft wouldn't be tickled pink to see MP3 die entirely to make room for .wma to take over.

    This just in, companies seek to sell their own products.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  24. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Dude, you're aware that exceedingly few artists, however famous, have really made any money from the selling of their recordings, right? Even famous ones are starving by that metric. Now the fame brought by the recording industry makes their performances much more profitable, true. Artists make most of their money from performances. By the metric of performance earnings, artists are making more than ever, while the recording industry is suffering. Also, more indies are making more money than ever. And while most of them do in fact struggle, that's more in the nature of a small business than the fame thing. There's really just no defending the recording industry - there is no valid excuse for the level of exploitation involved. Art and artists historically have done, and are doing now, just a bit better without the industry than they did with the industry. With the exception of the famous, which happens to include many singers who can barely carry a tune along with the very most talented.

  25. Re:Chapter 1 by HanzoSpam · · Score: 1, Funny

    Political incorrectness.

    --

    Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
  26. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    (though not directly, it's usually couched in phrases like "ohh, you're just hating out of hatred")

    Yo, Dawg ... I hear you like to hate, so I installed some hate so you can hate while you're hating. :-P

    There's faulty thinking on both sides.

    On that, we agree. =)

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  27. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I heard it died faster than Jobs' liver "donor".

  28. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 1

    mp3.com? didn't that die as fast as Fred Durst's star power?

    Fred Durst had star power?

  29. Full-page illustrations in EPUB by tepples · · Score: 1

    Apple accepts book from anyone who can generate ePub.

    Which brings us back to the question of the article: For a book composed mostly of full-page illustrations, what's the best way to format that as an EPUB?

    1. Re:Full-page illustrations in EPUB by KublaiKhan · · Score: 1

      By rolling the text into the illustrations, AFAIK.

      Epub is an XML derivative, I think, so if you want a particular layout you'll have to keep that in mind--and the only way to ensure that is to make the book a series of pictures.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
  30. A FEW POINTS by N8F8 · · Score: 4, Informative

    YOUTUBE: About two years ago YouTube redesigned their trove system to make it almost impossible for small acts to be found. Try it. You are pretty much stuck with the mainstream stuff they sort to the top in each category. You pretty much have to accidentally find indie acts on youtube.

    BARS AND CAFES: As a cafe owner can attest that BMI and ASCAP make it almost impossible to play indie acts. The fees are just too high for small businesses. Even i you make bands sign papers stating they are unsigned acts playing only there own music, BMI and ASCAP still go after you. The first six months we were open we had live music 1-2 nights a week. The minute we posted notices on MySpace we had BMI and ASCAP twisting our arms to buy a annual license. License fees that were far too high to make it even remotely sensible from a business perspective. I would happily support local bands but the system is rigged.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    1. Re:A FEW POINTS by jfengel · · Score: 1

      As a cafe owner can attest that BMI and ASCAP make it almost impossible to play indie acts.

      Most venues in my area pay the fees. I've found that the problem there isn't the fees, but the fact that customers prefer to listen to the stuff you have to pay fees for. The bars prefer cover bands: the music is tried and true, if bland.

      Cafes can do better, but even if an artist plays mostly their own work, they've got to have at least some standards in the set list. It makes the set list more varied.

      Which is why BMI and ASCAP are so anal about it; they know their music is being played. The fact that the lawyers are a*******s about it... well, yeah, that's a different issue. You're right that it does add an extra cost to having live music.

  31. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    How can a holiday which has not even begun be "almost over"?

  32. Is it a surprise? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple has been going full-on evil lately with a vision for the future that makes even MS's most dominating days pale. They want to control every device you own, and the appliance model is what they like. Devices designed for consumption, not production. You get to pay for everything and can buy it only through the Apple owned store. They will make devices designed to have a short life with features like non-replaceable batteries so that you are always spending money on the newest, trendiest, toy. They get to be the arbiters of what is acceptable and what is not on your devices, in their one and only store.

    That is a pretty scary vision of the future, in particular for the generally very openness loving crowd on Slashdot. At least MS just seemed to want to be your operating system, they didn't seem to want total control of your device and what you could buy.

    So I am not surprised Apple gets a lot of hatred here. If they don't want that, maybe they shouldn't have such a closed, "The Apple was is the ONLY way," ecosystem. Now if you like that that's fine. I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't want. It is perfectly ok to say "I like their system, I want my stuff locked down and controlled, because that also implies protected, I am willing to deal with higher prices and less choice in trade for what I feel to be a better overall experience." However understand that many people do not feel that way, in particular many who inhabit Slashdot. So there's gonna be a lot of Apple hate here so long as that is going on.

    In fact, the only reason Apple ever got much love on Slashdot was because they were an underdog. Apple has always had a pretty controlling vision of computers, though not near as much as the present. However they were the little guy, fighting against the behemoth that was MS and Slashdot loves underdogs. Now they are massive and their strategy is well known so they've lost any love from /. they might have had.

    1. Re:Is it a surprise? by Drakino · · Score: 1

      They will make devices designed to have a short life with features like non-replaceable batteries so that you are always spending money on the newest, trendiest, toy.

      I never did understand this point. When did requiring a screwdriver make a battery non replaceable? Sure, it's a little bit different then other laptops and phones, but the battery remains a replaceable component inside Apple products.

  33. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by sootman · · Score: 4, Informative

    Never let those pesky "facts" get in the way of a good Apple-bashing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3.com

    [MP3.com] was shut down on December 2, 2003 by CNET, which, after purchasing the domain name (but not MP3.com's technology or music assets), established the current MP3.com site.

    On January 12, 2000, MP3.com launched the "My.MP3.com" service which enabled users to securely register their personal CDs and then stream digital copies online from the My.MP3.com service. Since consumers could only listen online to music they already proved they owned the company saw this as a great opportunity for revenue by allowing fans to access their own music online. The record industry did not see it that way and sued MP3.com claiming that the service constituted unauthorized duplication and promoted copyright infringement.

    Judge Jed S. Rakoff, in the case UMG v. MP3.com, ruled in favor of the record labels against MP3.com and the service on the copyright law provision of "making mechanical copies for commercial use without permission from the copyright owner." Before damage was awarded, MP3.com settled with plaintiff, UMG Recordings, for $53.4 million, in exchange for the latter's permission to use its entire music collection. Later, the firm no longer had sufficient funds to weather the technology downturn. MP3.com was subsequently bought and the new owner did not continue the same service.

    Weakened financially, MP3.com was eventually acquired by Vivendi Universal in May 2001 at $5 per share ($23 below the IPO share price) or approximately $372 million in cash and stock. Jean-Marie Messier, then-CEO of Vivendi Universal, stated "The acquisition of MP3.com was an extremely important step in our strategy to create both a distribution platform and acquire state-of-the-art technology. MP3.com will be a great asset to Vivendi Universal in meeting our goal of becoming the leading online provider of music and related services.

    Vivendi had difficulties growing the service and eventually dismantled the original site, selling off all of its assets including the URL and logo to CNET in 2003.

    For comparison, Apple opened the iTunes Music Store in April 2003--23 months after Universal got MP3.com. CNET bought mp3.com in November 2003.
    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/apr/28musicstore.html
    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1008275/cnet-buys-mp3com

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  34. You can still do illustrations in ePub by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    ePub would suck indeed if you could not add images - but you can.

    It's just a question of letting the reader flow the text in relation to the images, what is in question is being able to have a totally fixed layout, to say that THIS text is HERE on the page in relation to THIS image. It's actually a bad idea for most things because it eliminates a number of ways a reader can improve reading on the device, but some things (like childrens books) it's a must.

    Note this does not stop people from publishing fixed layout books as apps, for instance right now on the popular list is an iPad app that's a pop-up book (which would probably stay an app due to the need for animation).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  35. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by Gilmoure · · Score: 2

    I still have my Quadra 650. It had 12 MB of RAM. Still runs and handles Photoshop 2.5/Illustrator 5.5 just fine as well. I can't throw it out as I've never had any problems with it.

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates
  36. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

    The Christmas *selling season* is almost over.

    That's what I meant. Sorry. For online selling and catalog selling the peak time ends about five days before December 25, because people can't be sure they will get the gift shipped in time. Instead they shop at physical stores where they can get the product immediately. So selling on Ebay now would not gather as many or high bids as if I sold the 2-3 weeks immediately after Thanksgiving.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  37. Re:who cares about their locked down ecosystem? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    the winds of "trendy" are a changing, my son, and so goes the lion's share of Apple's sales.

    Fuck "trendy" ... I'll stick with "works".

    Do you really think most people buy Apple stuff because its "trendy", or do you think they might be "trendy" because they do what the users want it to?

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  38. Re:who cares about their locked down ecosystem? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

    All those new customers are merely hipster posers who hang out at Starbucks, have handle bar mustaches and ride penny farthing bikes.They couldn't program in assembly on a TMS9900 if you set their feet on fire and had a ring of naked women throwing pickles at them. In other words, total losers who make more money then they know what to do with. If they had any sense, they woulda' donated to Firefly fandom so that it wouldn't have been canceled.

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates
  39. Re:who cares about their locked down ecosystem? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    They couldn't program in assembly on a TMS9900 if you set their feet on fire and had a ring of naked women throwing pickles at them.

    I'm not sure I could either, to be honest. :-P

    However, if anybody has anything to support an invocation of Rule 34, then I'd be interested. For, um, academic purposes.

    I for one welcome our new naked, pickle-throwing overlords.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  40. short sighted by aepervius · · Score: 1

    firstly the long tail means for "small" artist, a better way to make themselves heard, and a chance at celebrity however small. Wthout it you are condemned to obscurity or nearly. Secondly more importantly that can mean in certain case the difference between having to have a job beside music to pay rent, or live off music, have more time to be creative, the same way people live off their job (not rich, but enough to live as us the common mortal). And thirdly, for US the public, it gives us globally much betetr chance to hear other music that the "promoter" RIAA might not give a chance to because their marketing say them they won't recoup their cost.

    It is a win for the artist, a win for the public, and even a win for the RIAA in case the artist don't want to promote itself, so that can see whoever is "catching up", even if they can't propose them a "bad contract" and remove the skin from the artist, they will have to propose a better one, but OTOH they know in advance what they buy. It is a win for everybody really.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:short sighted by jfengel · · Score: 2

      Wthout it you are condemned to obscurity or nearly.

      And WITH it, you're condemned to obscurity or nearly. The number of artists who can support themselves from the income they get that way is tiny. Practically all have Real Jobs.

      I didn't say you don't get great music out of it. There's lots and lots and lots of great music. So much that people aren't willing to pay terribly much for it.

      I'm also not defending the RIAA's practices. I think they're horrible, and I'm glad they're dying. I'm just saying that independent artists aren't about to move in to take their place, at least not the place of making a living off their art.

  41. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by beelsebob · · Score: 2

    100% in fact – it's the duty of the corporation to do their absolute best to make money for their investors.

  42. iTunes LP was made available by drerwk · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.apple.com/itunes/lp-and-extras/
    I would expect the same in a few months for any iBooks thing.

  43. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by John+Whitley · · Score: 1

    If that were the case, once Apple were confident in their tech specs, surely they'd allow users of other operating systems to create apps for iOS?

    There's no "allow" here, as in Apple acting as the bully keeping you out of its tree fort. Apple would have to significantly increase its development investment in the iOS development tool chain to maintain and QA ports for other desktop platforms. That's money directly diverted from enhancements to the toolchain and to iOS itself. The return on that investment is doubtful at best, and the lost opportunity cost is damning. Personally, I can't foresee any market for this that would justify the ongoing costs.

  44. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Haha, this is the absolute perfect example of misinformation about apple. Who cares about the fact that m4a is actually the MPEG standard designed to succeed the MPEG standard ac3, which itself was designed to take over from the MPEG standard mp3.

    No, instead we need to have a good bash at apple for trying to get "their" standard through over all others.

  45. Mirror Mirror by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Your own post starts:

    Apple has been going full-on evil lately with a vision for the future that makes even MS's most dominating days pale

    In the face of such epic chicken-little style hype, why would responses not be agressive? Why do you get to be agressive and not expect agressive counter-argument in return?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Mirror Mirror by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Or to phrase it more accurately: you're a hypocrite.

      Your hype, frothing and hyperbole aren't that at all are they, it's just righteous anger!

      You can't seriously adopt the "all Apple fans are so aggressive and trolling" when your post starts the way it did, and then try to claim it as a pre-emptive strike against the "aggressive" Apple fans that you are expecting to reply to your post.

      That's not discussion; that's trolling.

  46. Re:who cares about their locked down ecosystem? by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

    50/50 I reckon.

  47. Re:Probalby because Apple fans are so aggressive by fotbr · · Score: 1

    Not surprised, just wondering why both sides seem to be made up of people incapable of having a civil discussion.

    As for the moderation -- friend of a friend status means I see it rated as "+5 Troll" -- you're a highly rated troll. So there's that, at least. :)

  48. Way too old by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I have two year old family members who are able to use parts of the iPhone just fine.

    And "children's book" is a pretty broad category, going up almost to the teens...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  49. If I may quote... by bhunachchicken · · Score: 2

    ... Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know) From the criticism of the EPUB format: "One criticism of EPUB is that, while good for text-centric books, it may be unsuitable for publications which require precise layout or specialized formatting, such as a comic book"[1] Comparing this with what the article says that Apple is doing, it sounds like they are trying to deal with this problem. I'm probably wrong, but that's my first impression. Let's just hope that they decide to submit the proposal for an update back to the standards committee.

  50. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 2

    There is also social responsibility.

    Social responsibility is good PR, not a legal obligation.

  51. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 1

    They fought to acquire the same rights as individuals, they are burdened by the same obligations.

    What obligations to corporations in the United States have beyond providing their shareholders with a profit? I ask about US corporations because Apple is one.

  52. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by Chaonici · · Score: 1

    I still see people claiming you can't play MP3s on an iPod.

    This is untrue, but the fact that I cannot play my .ogg files on my iPod does not endear me to Apple.

    Cue rockbox.

  53. Behind is not out in the cold by 517714 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Apple is consistent with their previous roll outs, they will release this to everyone later, once they have had a chance to debug the code and make it work the way a publisher would want. And it won't be because of the uproar here. Apple does not promise to roll out later since they are prohibited from making certain types of forward looking statements.

    --
    The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
  54. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    Come on, every anti-Apple story has a legion of screeching fanboys coming on to defend the company (though not directly, it's usually couched in phrases like "ohh, you're just hating out of hatred"). There's faulty thinking on both sides.

    Screeching fanboys or just people who are dubious after so much wolf-crying?

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  55. Missing the point! by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 2

    This might be true if Apple were standard compliant in regard to ePub, which they are not (example here, make sure you read Liz' blog all the way through, she rules!). So, they'd have to fix a few other things before we talk about the new iBooks 1.2 fixed layout specs or them throwing "out unfinished tools and specs" as you say. IOW, there's enough to whine about already (again, check Liz' blog for details!).

    OTOH, lots of small publishers are eager to satisfy their clients, but cannot, since Apple chose to keep the new specs under an NDA. Thanks a bunch for that... . And you keep defending that, citing "Apple's support burden" *shakes head* Who are you, an Apple helpdesk guy?

    --
    I hope I didn't brain my damage.
    1. Re:Missing the point! by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 1

      Here I sit, replying to myself.
      Mail from Apple contact says: specs are not ready yet, but will be "available in early January".

      Still, why the 'closed beta'?

      --
      I hope I didn't brain my damage.
    2. Re:Missing the point! by Drakino · · Score: 1

      The link you pointed me to indicates iBooks doesn't support embedded fonts (dated June 23rd), then has an article this month on how to embed fonts. So in that case, it looks like Apple needed iOS 4.x to support embedded fonts properly, but didn't want to hold up the initial iBooks release.

      And no, I'm not an Apple helpdesk guy, but I have worked in various support roles, from consumer support, enterprise support, and developer support. There is always a cost associated with support, and it's much higher when the product being supported isn't solid. Apple is a very lean operating company, one that doesn't want to waste anything when possible. This also leads them to being very secret about certain plans, or in this case, unfinished specs. Yes, it can suck at times if your caught outside their bubble, but they do have their reasons, and they aren't "How can we screw over the most people possible today?"

  56. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Again : As market share approaches total dominance, it is the obligation of the monopoly to provide access to all elements of the niche they control.
    If it cannot, or will not, then it must be split into competitive entities which are capable of serving the entire market, or allowing competition to muscle in and serve appropriately. So, from a profit-only perspective, the corporation becomes two or more corporations which, individually, are no longer serving their investor as well as they could have, because they didn't conform to the social obligations their influence dictated.
    The problem with the profit-only model is that it condones economic circumstances like monopolies - eliminate the competition, control the market, limit who can participate - all acceptable behaviour under that ethic. This (in America) is ultimately a breach of the open market, which is supposed to be the guiding social force, isn't it? It is inherent that a company which climbs to such market dominance, has to either manage the multitude of facets dependent on that market, or break itself into less-profitable, competing pieces. Either way, at this level of market dominance, there is a social obligation defining its behaviour (you might argue that it is an economic obligation that forces this circumstance, but that can only be argued if you do not subscribe to a "profit-only" ethic - hence, it is primarily a social force).
    The profit-only is fine for, say, a highly competitive market niche - a niche lacking a dominating player, but the obligations change as the competition decreases.

  57. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by wygit · · Score: 2

    People always throw this quote out like it means something, but it doesn't.

    Is it the duty for the corporation to do their absolute best to make money for their investors for the next quarter or for the next 10 years?

    Do corporations have a duty to do what's best for the investors right now, even if it's going to hurt, or even destroy the market 5 years from now?

  58. Re:Chapter 1 by lwsimon · · Score: 1

    The biggest irony? The Turner Diaries aren't available on iBooks :(

    I've still not read them, though I hear they are poorly written and deal with some kind of farfetched race war. Still, they seem like a part of pop culture, so I might as well.

    --
    Learn about Photography Basics.
  59. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by jo_ham · · Score: 1

    And more's the better if it did - AAC is technically a better codec than mp3. Both have patent and licensing issues, but AAC is an open standard as designed from the start. Mp3 was grandfathered in and is more tightly patent controlled by a single company.

    It would be better if AAC took over.

    Note that Apple does not control or own AAC - it just uses it as its default format.

  60. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by jo_ham · · Score: 2

    How do you know it's untrue? Have you looked back over recent Apple posts on slashdot? The wealth of disinformation and just plain wrong data that is touted as "fact" is staggering.

    This is not just confined to information about Apple, but all of the "unpopular" entities on slashdot - Google, MS, Sony, Apple, Facebook etc. The genuine issues with these large companies (and they all have them) are drowned out by nonsense wailing, gnashing and frothing from people with an axe to grind and whose only desire is to astroturf.

    On the point of .ogg, it would be nice if it was a standard supported format, but the market is just not there (ie, not enough demand). The solution would be to allow you to add third party codecs of your own to the iPod itself, since it seems crazy that you can extend iTunes this way (well, not crazy that you can do it - anything that Quicktime will play, iTunes will play), but you can end up in a situation where iTunes will play a track that you can't sync to your iPod. Any of the current devices running iOS should be ideal for codec extensions.

  61. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    Apple doesn't publish music or books, so in the case of iTunes LP, or the latest iBooks features, they need to work them out fully first. They do this by working with a few big companies, giving them access to rough beta copies of tools and tech specs.

    Making rough beta copies of tools and tech specs available on an equal basis to all publishers would work at least as well (Google tends to do this). And if support burden and focus was the concern, even better would be working with a small set of smaller publisher specialized in the areas most applicable to the new features. Choosing specifically to limit it to provide early access to large publishers is clearly designed to snub the small guys.

  62. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by mjwx · · Score: 1, Troll

    Have you been reading Slashdot lately? It's nothing but screeching monkeys and poo flinging at the merest mention of Apple.

    Have you been reading the same slashdot as I have?

    It's being used as a platform for all kinds of Apple evangelism, any mention of Win Phone 7, Meego or *gasp* Android will launch a flurry of attacks against from Apple evangelists.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  63. iBooks vs. Standard EPUB by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    Of course, the International Digital Publishing Forum -- the group behind EPUB -- is also working on that problem, in the open, without distributing closed standards to selected parties.

    Apple's not trying to fix problems with EPUB; now that they've used the fact that EPUB was a widely accepted to standard with existing tools and support to build iBooks, they are trying to use their current market power to create a breach between their platform and the standard, so that its more expensive for publishers to support both iBooks and compliant EPUB platforms, hoping that their current market power will lead publishers to choose iBooks rather than standard EPUB.

    1. Re:iBooks vs. Standard EPUB by Draek · · Score: 1

      Or, as it's commonly known, "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish".

      From IBM to Microsoft, and now to Apple. Isn't it cute?

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    2. Re:iBooks vs. Standard EPUB by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Or more likely, as they did with iTunes LP and Extras is that they'll release it to everyone when the bugs are ironed out.

      Apple's general direction with formats is open: aac, mp4, .mbox, .ics, documented xml (for their productivity apps), and increasing standardisation of WebKit's engine on the WC3's standards for html and css (including future draft specs like html5).

      It's a far cry from embrace, extend and extinguish. Just compare it to something like the WMA format, which is just slightly tweaked mpeg4 designed to be just a little bit incompatible, forcing you to use Windows. Or the outlook .pst format, which is legendary for its PITA incompatibility when you want to get messages *out* of Outlook and into a new client (while getting them *in* is super easy). Or the Office file formats themselves.

      Apple aren't totally free and clear on this - their iTunes library is a blob, but they do keep a concurrent human-readable, documented XML copy alongside the proprietary one that iTunes itself uses, for example, but it doesn't have all of the features or data in it, just most of it (it won't have your play counts etc) - it's better than nothing though.

      Getting your data *out* of an Apple system, should you so choose, is pretty easy - you can take it to a new system (running different tools) with relative ease.

    3. Re:iBooks vs. Standard EPUB by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Not going to double post, but this is far from the classic EEE.

      http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1918138&cid=34625732

  64. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by gstoddart · · Score: 2

    This is untrue

    What, the fact that I've seen people on Slashdot claim iPods can't play MP3? Not hardly. People make all sorts of misinformed statements about what you can and can't do with an iPod -- including that it won't play MP3s or that you have to buy your music from the iTunes music store.

    but the fact that I cannot play my .ogg files on my iPod does not endear me to Apple.

    First of all, I don't think endearing you to Apple is important. It may not endear them to you, but you're not their market.

    You know, the overwhelming majority of people don't know WTF ogg-vorbis is. So, why would Apple build in support? To keep happy the 0.5% of the population who cares?

    And, quite frankly, the only time I ever even hear about ogg is when someone is whining that some device doesn't support it. For me, ogg is like GNU Hurd -- nobody really cares except those indignant that nobody else is using it.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  65. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

    mp3.com? didn't that die as fast as Fred Durst's star power?

    Fred Durst had star power?

    yes, he became invincible for several second

  66. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

    Mp3.com was doing fine until Itunes came along and sided with the RIAA ruining the thriving independent market. It seems they are at it again, siding with big businesses over artists, writers, and consumers.

    Mp3.com got into trouble in 2000, when it branched out from offering downloads of independent music made available with the artist's permission to making available music from the major labels without permission (it was trying a new and untested legal theory that if the downloader owned the CD, it was OK for mp3.com to let them download copies it made). It failed at that theory.

    This was before iTunes the software or iTunes the store even existed. Mp3.com settled with the record company that had sued it for around $50 million. Then the downturn happened in the tech industry, and they didn't survive that, and were sold. The buyers took them in a different direction. By this time iTunes the software existed. The iTunes store was still a couple years in the future.

    Want to try a theory that is consistent with the way time works in this universe?

  67. People would bitch if they did make it available by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they did make it available to everyone right away, people would still be bitching. The complaint would be that Apple is trying to hijack the open ePUB standard with their extensions for fixed layout.

    The right way to do this is to implement their proposed system, test it on a few books, fix problems found, and end up with a format that works well for this. Only after it is stable and they have had a chance to see what other ePUB stakeholders think should they open it to everyone.

    This is how most progress on standards comes about.

  68. Re:who cares about their locked down ecosystem? by Draek · · Score: 1

    If it were so, they'd be just as "trendy" around the world rather than merely where they spend the most in marketing. That is not the case.

    --
    No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  69. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by DrakeMcSmooth · · Score: 1

    I think the predicament for the musician may nevertheless be better than for the writer.

    Musicians, except for the Madonna's and the U2's, make very little money off of their album sales (due to the record company's double and triple dipping with recoupable expenses). Donald Passman goes through a line-by-line estimation (see citation) of where the money goes for an act that manages to release a gold album –he concludes that the act (i.e., this is not per person) brings home about $40,000 from the album, after the record label has recouped expenses. Further, the act is signed to several more albums under the same financially dismal relationship (the record company may also choose not to release further albums, leaving the act in a limbo). [See Donald Passman's book "All You Need To Know About The Music Business" for a much more complete explanation].

    And yet, we see musicians everywhere, eating caviar in their butler-driven flying mobiles – this is because a sufficiently popular musician can tour and get a much better cut of the venue's revenue and merchandise sales. The industry view is that bands release albums to raise awareness for their tours. This is also why very old, very sad "rockers" tour into their 90s –they make good cash on shows.

    I know less about the publishing industry, but my understanding is that there is no make-your-money-on-tour equivalent for writers. There are speaking tours, but these are chiefly to raise awareness (and possibly seduce B&N employees, baristas/ers, other hangers-on), not as a means of raking in cash. Notoriety may bring a writer opportunity (such as writing a column some place where everybody knows which are the really good ascots), but not in the form of further profit on the existing art.

  70. Re:who cares about their locked down ecosystem? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

    Shock horror, they sell stuff in the markets where they advertise, and don't sell stuff where they don't!

    There are a few exceptions to this - namely when the iPhone came out, and people were buying them in the US and selling them overseas for a large markup, and again when the iPad was launched, into markets that Apple wasn't targeting specifically with marketing. Other than that, they advertise in markets where they sell products.

  71. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by MoeDumb · · Score: 1

    Apple's idea of social responsibility is to put that fraud Algore on their board.

    --
    Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
  72. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by MoeDumb · · Score: 1

    It's not the record labels fault that their self indulgent, caviar eating acts want to live like rockstars before they make it. The expenses these beginners rack up are taken out as an advance against profits. Profligacy now, indentured poverty later.

    --
    Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
  73. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by DrakeMcSmooth · · Score: 1

    Hey, my heart's not bleeding for the "recording artists" –show me a band that's getting paid and I'll show you a band that's getting overpaid.

    I'm pointing out that iBooks will have a different effect on indie writers than iTunes has had on indie musicians.

  74. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 1

    I don't buy Apple gear because I care about their notion of "social responsibility". To be honest, I don't recognize the notion of social responsibility. Instead, I treat society the way society treats the individual: I damn well take what I want.

  75. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 1

    Again : As market share approaches total dominance, it is the obligation of the monopoly to provide access to all elements of the niche they control.

    Prove it.

  76. The iBookstore sux by rcharbon · · Score: 1

    I have a book ("Chasing the Runner's High") that's available from a number of venues, one being the iBookstore. The iBookstore has the crappiest presentation of any online bookstore, bar none. You have to use your device to access it - you can't browse on your computer. And you can barely find a book if you know it's there - browsing, even on the iPhone/Pad, is almost useless. Sure you can write a seperate app for your book, but who wants to do that? And even if you do, it gets lost in the mess that's the iTunes app store. Apple might be a player in eReaders, but eBook shoppers go to places that provide a better interface to actually buy books.

  77. Re:Apple did the same with Itunes. BOYCOTT APPLE. by jfengel · · Score: 1

    Those numbers sound about right. But I can show you literally hundreds of very, very good bands who would happily sell their musical souls for $40k. You get bands like Radiohead who get to give away their music after that, because the studio did the heavy lifting of making them famous, something they couldn't do on their own no matter how good.

    The situation with the writers is different. You're right that there's no merch market for the writers, but they don't end up in the same kind of indentured servitude because the expenses aren't quite so high. They're a lot higher than you might expect, what with copy editors and reviewers and such, but those people are less expensive than producers and engineers, and they work on $1k computers rather than in million-dollar studios.

    So in the end the writer gets a pretty slim cut (about 10-15%), but the publisher eats most of those (comparatively slim) up-front costs.

  78. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    *laugh* Dude, you're currently moderated as "insightful and troll". That rocks!

    I think that pretty much sums up how polarized things are wrt Apple these days. :-P

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  79. Re:Apple hates it's customers! by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 1

    I don't have to. You made the claim concerning the social obligations of American corporations; the burden of proof is on your shoulders.

  80. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by Chaonici · · Score: 1

    How do you know it's untrue?

    You misread my post. The idea that you cannot play mp3s on an iPod is untrue.

  81. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by Chaonici · · Score: 1

    This is untrue

    What, the fact that I've seen people on Slashdot claim iPods can't play MP3?

    You misread my post as well. It is untrue that you cannot play an mp3 on an iPod.

    You know, the overwhelming majority of people don't know WTF ogg-vorbis is. So, why would Apple build in support? To keep happy the 0.5% of the population who cares?

    Software freedom is important whether you care about it or not.

  82. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

    It's being used as a platform for all kinds of Apple evilgelism, any mention of Win Phone 7, Meego or *gasp* Android will launch a flurry of non-posts from Apple evangelists.

    Fixed that for you.

    --
    Fandroids hate facts.
  83. quite new here by electronic+component · · Score: 1

    seesee www.partinchina.com

  84. Re:They aren't doing this to snub the little guys. by mjwx · · Score: 1

    *laugh* Dude, you're currently moderated as "insightful and troll". That rocks! I think that pretty much sums up how polarized things are wrt Apple these days. :-P

    Welcome to the /. moderation system. It may not be perfect but it's better then most other systems.

    And I too appreciate the irony.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  85. Re:People would bitch if they did make it availabl by Dellama · · Score: 1

    Latest Android 2.2os tablet pc MX822: CPU:Freescale iMX515 ARM Cortex.A8 kernel, CPU Speed 800M DDR:512MB DDR2 OS:Android2.2 OS Storage:Built-in 4GB Nand Flash speaker:Built-in double horn network:devices wireless WiFi,support IEEE 802.11b/ On line shop: www.android-tablet-pc-wholesale.com