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Labor Lockout Lingers At Honeywell Nuclear Plant

Hugh Pickens writes "Federal News Radio reports that in Metropolis, Illinois, the nation's only site for refining uranium for eventual use in nuclear power plants, some 230 union workers locked out by the company since last June take turns picketing and warning of possible toxic releases into the community while they're not at their jobs. Even in better times, the plant has been a source of concern. In September 2003, toxic hydrogen fluoride was released in an accident. Three months later, seepage of mildly radioactive gas sent four people to the hospital and prompted the evacuation of nearby residents. Now a recent safety inspection by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission found that temporary workers brought in by Honeywell weren't properly trained and were cheating on tests, and that Honeywell had neglected to report liquids that were released into the air. Metropolis' troubles began last spring when efforts to negotiate a new contract broke down at the Honeywell plant. Honeywell opted not to let the union employees work without a contract, citing the lack of bargaining progress and what it called the union's refusal to agree to provide 24 hours of notice before any strike."

49 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. Coverage? by Trip6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Locked out since June? This seems newsworthy to me, where is the lame stream media on this story?

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:Coverage? by delirium+of+disorder · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you want good reporting on labor from anything but a business perspective (ie how will this effect share value), you have to look at the media of the labor movement itself, not the corporate owned and controlled mainstream media. On the Metropolis Honeywell workers in particular, I suggest these two episodes of Labor Express radio. Another good source for labor news is the Industrial Worker, the paper of the IWW.

      --
      ------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
    2. Re:Coverage? by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sounds like a job for... SUPERMAN!

    3. Re:Coverage? by vlm · · Score: 2

      Locked out since June? This seems newsworthy to me, where is the lame stream media on this story?

      Doesn't take a conspiracy to notice that its "only" 200 temporarily locked out, in an era of multi-thousand permanent downsizings everywhere else.

      In 2006, two hundred out of work may have made the news. In 2010, two hundred out of work is called the local unemployment line "dept of workforce development" or whatever they're called.

      There was a lot of gallows humor locally when the local unemployment office put itself in the parking lot of the local tech/trade school. "theres a reason they're planning on needing thousands of parking spaces", "After then complete their IT training / become a video game developer in 24 hours certificate, as per the radio commercials promising $75/yr, the kids can walk across the parking lot to the unemployment office", etc.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Coverage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not disregard, just take in multiple sources and evaluate the truth for yourself.

      Sure, unions have issues with corruption (just like every organization of humans ever), but sometimes--perhaps this case is an example--sometimes they actually do fight injustice.

    5. Re:Coverage? by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think he may have suggested that you look at both sides and make up your own mind.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    6. Re:Coverage? by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Doesn't take a conspiracy to notice that its "only" 200 temporarily locked out, in an era of multi-thousand permanent downsizings everywhere else.

      Except maybe the tiny fact that these 230 workers are being locked out of a nuclear plant with a less than stellar safety record. Who's monitoring the radioactive materials during this lockout?

      Funny the government can prevent a union from striking if the industry is considered too important to our nation's infrastructure (eg. Railroads, Air Traffic Controllers), but this same government won't get involved in a labor dispute that may put a community at risk like at a nuclear plant. Funny how government intervention seems to favor the employer and not the employees.

      Is that contraversial enough for you?

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    7. Re:Coverage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm one of the locked out workers. We have been reaching out to the national media outlets since June. If it weren't for sites like the HuffPost, and this one, we would just be forgotten about.

    8. Re:Coverage? by whoop · · Score: 2

      you have to look at the media of the labor movement itself, not the corporate owned and controlled mainstream media

      Nope, he's saying to believe his link over any other source.

    9. Re:Coverage? by vlm · · Score: 4, Informative

      Doesn't take a conspiracy to notice that its "only" 200 temporarily locked out, in an era of multi-thousand permanent downsizings everywhere else.

      Except maybe the tiny fact that these 230 workers are being locked out of a nuclear plant with a less than stellar safety record. Who's monitoring the radioactive materials during this lockout?

      You fell for the advertising. Sorry. Don't feel bad, a lot of people are paid a lot of money to trick people like you.

      This plant just converts semi-refined ore into refined fuel. Before its cooked in the reactor, reactor fuel is about as radioactive and harmful as granite. The Co-60 and Sr-90 and other nasties come from fission, not a fuel for fission. There is no serious radioactive danger from the plant, at least compared to other substances in the plant, such as HF.

      The biggest problem they have is containment of hydrofluoric acid. Apparently they have a quite an astounding safety violation history. F-ing bucket chemists. However, that stuff doesn't just leap out of the carboy like a caged animal and burrow into your groundwater, it requires a tech at the lab bench to screw up. Whom by definition is not there during a lockout.

      We're not talking about locking the workers out of three mile island during the meltdown. Some of the (paid) clowns in the media trying to rile things up, they might be talking about that, or as close as they can get without libel / slander suits, but that does not by any means make it true.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    10. Re:Coverage? by psm321 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How about quoting the whole sentence instead of selectively picking the part that makes your point?

      If you want good reporting on labor from anything but a business perspective (ie how will this effect share value), you have to look at the media of the labor movement itself, not the corporate owned and controlled mainstream media.

  2. Reminds me something... by Jimpqfly · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Everything is under control, our main Technical Adviser is Homer Simpson."

  3. My Slim Annecdotal Evidence Confirms... by BoRegardless · · Score: 3, Informative

    Honeywell didn't train the guys who came to my business to repair the alarm system (they later sold their alarm business).

    People showed up with no testing equipment to check for open lines, bad connections, etc.

    1. Re:My Slim Annecdotal Evidence Confirms... by azalin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If Honeywell dares to employ untrained/unqualified people in a nuclear power plant they should be prosecuted. And sued. Into oblivion.
      I would suggest that every company running potentially dangerous factories should be forced to place their ceo's offices and shareholder meetings directly downwind from said facility.
      Where is the FBI when you need them?

    2. Re:My Slim Annecdotal Evidence Confirms... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      What's that got to do with anything?

  4. Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seems like if the union workers were to strike, the potential for a lot of damage would be high.

    1. Re:Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by tangelogee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yea, we really need that slavery thing back in order to be able to run things profitably.

      If the unions did what they were intended to do, instead of make the process as expensive and cumbersome as possible, I might agree with you.

    2. Re:Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's actually the worst of both worlds.

      When (not if) left unchecked, greedy business owners will generally do shit that endangers the people.
      When (not if) left unchecked, lazy unions will lower the drive for greatness while costing a shitload of money.
      When (not if) left unchecked, government will pretty much screw up anything it touches.

      In short, everybody is wrong and there's nothing we can do about it (aside from sitting back, cracking open a cold one, and watching the shit hit the fan). Anyone who tries to convince me different is probably just a shill for the left/right/center/green/pastafarian/anarchist/communist/socialist/libertarian/torry/whig/no-nothing/log-cabin movement(s),

    3. Re:Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by delirium+of+disorder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Union workplaces are, statistically speaking, much safer than non-union workplaces in the same and related industries. When you have a collective bargaining agreement, job security, and an explicit grievance procedure, you aren't afraid to report and fix safety problems. When you're non-union, you have no representation, are underpaid, and can loose your job at any time, so you won't stick your neck out for safety. I would most certainly prefer that nuclear workers (or any power-plant workers for that matter), be union.

      --
      ------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
    4. Re:Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by delirium+of+disorder · · Score: 5, Informative

      [Citation Needed]
      OK Here's some data:
      Herbert Abrams’ Short history of occupational health, published in the Journal
      of Public Health Policy, says: “It is important to recognize that throughout the often
      tragic history of worker health and disease, the worker played a primary role as the basis
      of every significant improvement in legislation, factory inspection, compensation,
      correction, and prevention.”

      Abrams concludes: “Labour unrest, protests, strikes, lawsuits, and catastrophes were vital
      catalysts in obtaining action. Organized labour has been the essential factor central to
      most workplace health and safety improvements, from the industrial revolution to the
      present.”

      The Canadian Labour Congress cites a 1993 study done for the Canadian Ministries of
      Labour which concludes that union-supported health and safety committees have a
      significant "impact in reducing injury rates".

      Later studies for the Ontario Workplace Health and Safety Agency “found that 78-79 per
      cent of unionized workplaces reported high compliance with health and safety legislation
      while only 54-61 per cent of non-unionized workplaces reported such compliance.”

      But this isn’t a Canadian phenomenon. US academic Adam Seth Litwin, then with the London School of Economics,
      concluded in a review last year of health and safety in UK workplaces that unions
      dramatically improve safety in even the most hazardous workplaces.
      A non-union office worker was, by Litwin’s calculations, 13 times more likely to suffer
      an injury than was a closed-shop union worker on an industrial assembly line.

      Even in the US, with a relatively low unionization level of 13 per cent, the effect can be
      seen. A 1991 study, using US data, concluded that unions dramatically increased
      enforcement of the Occupational Safety and Health Act in the manufacturing sector.
      Unionized firms had a higher probability of having a health and safety inspection, and
      their inspections tended to be more probing, as employees exercised their “walkaround
      rights” — the right to accompany a government inspector during a workplace tour.

      A 1998 paper provides more evidence of the union safety effect. Researchers who
      surveyed over 400 industrial hygienists and safety engineers in New Jersey concluded
      “effective strategies for involving workers appear to be conditional on a number of
      variables, most importantly on worker activism and the effective use of formal
      negotiations.”
      The researchers, writing in the Journal of Public Health Policy, add: “Findings are
      consistent with studies from both the US and abroad which emphasize the role of unions
      in shaping opportunities for effective worker participation."

      --
      ------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
    5. Re:Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2

      The union can argue that the job and it's pay and benefits exists because of the collective bargaining that they performed. I'm always suspicious of people who work at a union plant, but choose to not participate in the union. They obviously benefit from the collective bargaining, but they don't want to give up any of their wage toward the cause.

      I'm not saying that the union bosses can be trusted since there's been more than a few criminal cases that suggest otherwise. However, this isn't the Sopranos (or whatever your favorite mafia show maybe) and it's a little unfair to paint all unions with that stereotypical brush.

      I've learned from personal experience (I'm not a union employee) that if I'm against being part of a collective agreement then I should make sure I work in a non-union shop. Especially during strikes or lockouts...

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    6. Re:Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by royallthefourth · · Score: 2

      and an attitude that they know more or better than the owners of the company

      Any competent worker has this attitude.

    7. Re:Unions in nuclear power industry is a bad combo by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      If the unions did what they were intended to do, instead of make the process as expensive and cumbersome as possible

      Unions are nothing more than workers banding together to bargain collectively. That's all any union I ever heard of does. It is not in the worker's best interest to make the process expensive OR cumbersome.

      You're watching too much Fox. Unions are good for workers, bad for management. In the words of the CEO of a (then) non-union airline, "any company that gets a union deserves one." Treat your workers fairly and they won't unionize. A company with a union workforce NEEDS a union.

  5. Re:Have every last one of them declared terrorists by bmajik · · Score: 2

    All privately employed people, be they doctors or nuclear plant employees or anything else, should have the right to withhold their labor.

    Otherwise, you have a situation known as "slavery".

    Now, these guys may very well be in breach of contractual obligations to show up for work.

    --
    My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  6. Metropolis in trouble? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Funny
    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  7. Re:Have every last one of them declared terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The workers didn't choose to quit.

    The employer unilaterally decided the workers weren't worth their pay, and isn't letting them come back to work until they capitulate and give the employer everything they want. The people in charge are playing hostage games, not the people who were staffing the plant.

  8. Take a guess... by damn_registrars · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Locked out since June? This seems newsworthy to me, where is the lame stream media on this story?

    Hmmm. Union workers are locked out of their jobs by their employer. I wonder why that didn't make the news, when any case of a union considering a vote on talking about thinking about announcing the possibility of maybe polling to take a vote on a half-day strike makes the news immediately?

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Take a guess... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      Its only illegal because that's the way the Unions bought the laws - make it expensive to switch the workforce wholesale away. You cannot have a job without a labour contract (whether an individual one or a collective one), and as one does not exist in this particular situation.... well, its pretty plain to see what that means.

    2. Re:Take a guess... by jimbolauski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If only it were that easy to get rid of union control, GM and Chrysler may have fared better.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    3. Re:Take a guess... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I see benefit in collective bargaining, but I am against unions as they have made themselves today.

      I dislike the fact that in quite a few places if a union gets in at your work place you have to join or quit - you cannot remain outside of the collective agreement and retain your job.

      I dislike the fact that in quite a few places a union can call a unionization vote year after year after year until they get in.

      I dislike the fact that in quite a few places unionization can stagnate a workforce rather than improve it - seniority based on nothing more than time spent in the job, rather than merit based seniority? What rubbish.

      I dislike the fact that the unionized workforce can withdraw their labour at any time, by following certain rules, while the employer has no equal ability - they have to wait until the contract is no longer in force before they have the right to lock out the workforce, while the union can call strike action whenever it likes.

      I have seen far far too many examples of unions being the worst of two choices for all involved, I have seen far far too many examples of unions seeking to simply hurt the employer because the employer wouldn't give in to their demands lock stock and barrel.

      I'm not an employer, I'm a 31 year old software developer. I have no stake in unions other than my opinion, but what I have seen of modern unions I have, largely, disliked to the extreme.

      Maybe I've been improperly influenced by my exposure to union actions (largely the aviation industries woes over the past few years, as aviation is a personal interest of mine - British Airways issues with Unite are particularly disgusting imho), but then I see the same issues outside of my particular circle of interest, so I don't think its that.

      And no, I'm not saying its all the workers fault, but their union certainly did fail to come to an agreement, so its not all the employers fault either.

    4. Re:Take a guess... by delirium+of+disorder · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's a bit misleading.

      I see benefit in collective bargaining, but I am against unions as they have made themselves today.
      Why not support unions that are more democratic than the traditional unions? The UE and the IWW are member run and as democratic as possible.

      you cannot remain outside of the collective agreement and retain your job.
      In most of the US you don't have to join a union to work in a union shop. Now, you have to pay the same costs as dues to support the infrastructure (stewards, negotiators, etc) that benefits you, but you don't have to actually join the union.

      I dislike the fact that in quite a few places a union can call a unionization vote year after year after year until they get in.
      Sounds like democracy to me. Hell, why not have automatic elections every year for ALL workplaces where workers can choose which, if any, union they wish to join?

      the union can call strike action whenever it likes.
      Almost every union contract has a no-strike clause. Strikes tend to happen before a contract (strike for recognition), or after a contract expires.

      --
      ------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
    5. Re:Take a guess... by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A little free advice for you here - don't feed that troll. The slashdot conservative mantra around here is "unionz iz teh evol!" and is repeated ad nauseum even when it doesn't relate to the situation. You won't get the conservatives to believe otherwise, regardless of the mountains of evidence you put in front of them; their very existence pivots on that assumption and they can't stand to consider it being even the slightest bit wrong.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    6. Re:Take a guess... by sikanappikiisseli · · Score: 2

      These union guys are like mafia. In my work place I have to pay them (it is automatically taken from my paycheck). I don't want them to represent me but I don't have a choice.
      The first thing these guys did when they took over was to remove all work incentives like merit raises etc. and so far have only defended people who should be kicked out for not working. Once there was a potential strike situation and they started telling me that I could not come to work even I don't have anything to do with them. They informed me that their people would be guarding the doors. They have also tried to get me sign documents where I certify that I will not work on certain days etc. There are lots of incidents with these guys - I hope they rot in hell...

    7. Re:Take a guess... by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I see benefit in collective bargaining, but I am against unions as they have made themselves today.

      I dislike the fact that in quite a few places if a union gets in at your work place you have to join or quit - you cannot remain outside of the collective agreement and retain your job.

      A lot of states, including the one I live in, has laws in place that establishes that all shops shall be "open" shops. This means that membership in a union can never be a requirement for a job.

      I dislike the fact that in quite a few places a union can call a unionization vote year after year after year until they get in.

      The workers are allowed to vote no each and every time. Most of these yearly votes are due to a few disgruntled workers trying to "stick it to the man" and inviting union organizers to meet with the rest of the work force. The work force can still vote no.

      I dislike the fact that in quite a few places unionization can stagnate a workforce rather than improve it - seniority based on nothing more than time spent in the job, rather than merit based seniority? What rubbish.

      Like it or not this protects more innocent workers than bad. If the employee was not performing his duties well enough then he should have been fired a long time ago. However, a senior employee is more expensive than a new hire so this rule is to prevent economic incentive from being the sole reason for ending an employee's career at a plant.

      I dislike the fact that the unionized workforce can withdraw their labour at any time, by following certain rules, while the employer has no equal ability - they have to wait until the contract is no longer in force before they have the right to lock out the workforce, while the union can call strike action whenever it likes.

      Not entirely true. Labor has to hold up their end of the collective bargain. An employer can lock out the workforce if there is enough evidence that labor isn't honoring the contract. But you are right, there are a few restrictive contracts that USED to exist that gave workers too much power. Economic realities have forced both sides of the agreement to make compromises. A local union used to have a rule against training for multiple job titles, which meant that if a person didn't show up for work the rest of the manufacturing shift couldn't fill in for the missing worker. That rule hasn't existed in their contract for at least a decade.

      On the other end of the spectrum, we have state laws that are ironically named "Right to Work" laws. These laws give the employer the right to fire any employee for any reason with the exception of reasons that unlawfully discriminate against the worker. To make matters worse, the employers in my state are not required to disclose the reason for the termination. This provides legal cover.

      I have seen far far too many examples of unions being the worst of two choices for all involved, I have seen far far too many examples of unions seeking to simply hurt the employer because the employer wouldn't give in to their demands lock stock and barrel.

      So have I, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing. This hurts the union workers more than the company. The company will simply move its plant somewhere else. The union's freedom to determine their working conditions isn't guaranteed to be risk free. This in theory should keep them honest. If the employer can't pull up stakes and take their business elsewhere what incentive is there that keeps the unions "honest"?

      Companies risk paying too much for labor and Labor risk asking too much from companies. The point of collective bargaining is to establish a balance between the two. There needs to be a risk associated with giving too much to one side in order to incentivize the negotiations. Otherwise why bother?

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    8. Re:Take a guess... by ravenshrike · · Score: 2

      I was moderating this topic, but I'm going to have to burn those mod points to point out just how fucking stupid of an equivocation the phrase "
      In most of the US you don't have to join a union to work in a union shop. Now, you have to pay the same costs as dues to support the infrastructure (stewards, negotiators, etc) that benefits you, but you don't have to actually join the union." is. That is seriously the dumbest fucking sentence above an 8th grade reading level I think I've seen someone write.

    9. Re:Take a guess... by gordo3000 · · Score: 2

      many people outside of unions do work 12 hour days, 6 days a week. they just do it in other countries. preventing off shoring is equivalent to saying we want to make the ignorant in the labor force still employable so everyone will pay a tax (in higher prices) to fund their life style even though they can't contribute nearly as much anymore. I'm not against what unions have done, but why does any of it need to be codified into law? Well educated and skilled workers don't have the problems you imagine because they can demand better conditions or leave. turn of hte century unions basically protected the massive, uneducated work force from exploitation. If they are still needed, it just means we have too many stupid people and frankly, I'm sick of paying so much for stupid people after all these decades.

      really, when Japanese automakers were massively modernizing, automating, and training employees for multiple jobs (as of 30 years ago) the UAW was fighting all of these things. the jobs bank is the last vestige of this to go, but they fought every step of modernization and by doing so, were complicit in killing the car industry. It was the management push to expand heavily into SUVs and large trucks that prevented the failure from hitting earlier than it did. But once gas prices rose and you required the ability to be agile as a company, the UAWs legacy actions killed them. Look at Japanese plants in the US, none are unionized and those workers by and large don't want the unions because they have seen how an american union can bring a successful business to its knees. The interesting thing is Japanese autoworkers are unionized, but the entire structure of their union would be unrecognizable in the US. It is very likely the willingness to both work when needed and be more dynamic and not institutionalize stupidity, laziness, and inflexibility that is why they didn't bring Toyota or Honda to its knees.

  9. What they do there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    They convert uranium ore -- usually in the form of uranium oxides ("yellow cake") -- into uranium hexafluoride by eventually dissolving it in hydrofluoric acid. That gas is then what gets run through centrifuges or gas diffusion plants to isotopically enrich the U-235. So, it's a lot of messy chemistry (see links) with mildly radioactive materials (uranium isn't strongly radioactive). HF is particularly nasty because although it is a weak acid it reacts with almost anything and it is quite toxic.

  10. Re:Have every last one of them declared terrorists by Platinum+Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...ok, you know there is a difference between a lockout and a strike, right? The employer initiates a lockout, the workers/bargaining unit initiates a strike.

    So you're saying the plant management should be declared terrorists? I just want to make sure I, and possibly you, understand what you're typing.

    --

    Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
  11. Here's a video from the workers talking about it by nysus · · Score: 2, Informative

    See http://blip.tv/file/4535436

    These guys are hard core and fighting the good fight. Their struggle against corporate greed should be our struggle.

    --

    ---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.

  12. "liquids that were released into the air"?!? by dtmos · · Score: 2, Informative

    What did they do, release an aerosol? I hate imprecise reporting.

    Anyway, the primary source (the safety report from the NRC) is available from the union local web site. (I confirmed that the same document is available directly from the NRC, but couldn't find a URL that didn't include my personal information.)

  13. Re:Have every last one of them declared terrorists by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wrong. The employer is playing hardball and chose to lockout the employees. They could have agreed to continue working without a contract but still under the old contract terms until an agreement is reached for a new contract.

    Someone needs to look up what "locked out" means.

    I'm not assuming that the union workers are being reasonable. I just think that placing blame solely on the unions and make an argument against their existence is just as much bullshit as to blindly accept everything a union says as gospel. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

    --
    These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
  14. Nuclear power is safe... by rbanzai · · Score: 2

    ...it's the people producing it that are dangerous.

  15. It's worth checking both sides info by fantomas · · Score: 2, Informative

    Perhaps it might be worth you checking both sides' information before coming a conclusion as well? Though I am afraid your line "No thanks - I've had enough of union rhetoric for one life time" suggests you'll only "disregard one sides propaganda in favour of the other sides propaganda".

    Sounds like you're both equally at fault here.

    1. Re:It's worth checking both sides info by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      Do you really think that case is indicative of McDonalds stores across the world? Are you really that stupid that you think the above happened because McDonalds wasn't unionised? Fucking hell.

      Unions have nothing to do with the above case - its already completely and utterly covered under existing employment law. Its a clear cut case of sexual harassment and any dismissal would have been an easy case of unfair dismissal for a tribunal or court to hear - the fact that there is no union doesn't alter the law.

      I'm actually flabbergasted that you think that poor girls experience had anything to do with unionisation or not.

  16. Re:Here's a video from the workers talking about i by royallthefourth · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm so angry for at the corporate world that pays me all year long

    You should be! The only way the shareholders make any money is by paying you less than the full value of your work and keeping the rest for themselves.

  17. Time for tariffs by benjamindees · · Score: 2

    Nuclear power is at the very base of the modern economy. Fossil fuels won't supply our energy needs for long. Renewables can't make up the difference in the short term. We can't afford to dismantle our energy production and ship it off to the third world the same way we did with toy manufacturing.

    The Honeywell CEO was on the news just a few days ago saying the only reason US businesses are hoarding cash and aren't hiring is that they don't have "certainty". How could you possibly not have "certainty" in the production of something as basic as nuclear fuel? It has a payback of something like forty-to-one. From a purely material perspective, you'd have to be a complete retard not to make obscene profits in nuclear power.

    Of course, the reason US industry doesn't have certainty is obvious: their competitors cheat. Thanks to globalization of trade but not of governance, other countries subsidize their businesses, operate under substandard environmental and labor standards, ignore human rights, and block US businesses from competing fairly. In the mean time, with our free trade and open borders, US consumers are exporting real wealth to developing nations, propping up their growth.

    So how can US businesses get "certainty"? There's only one way: by making all competitors operate on the same, level playing field. That means one of two things: either import/export tariffs, or global government.

    The downsides to global government should be obvious.

    Personally, I think the US will be better off if we choose tariffs. Hell, we could completely seal the borders if we wanted to. We are still the wealthiest nation on Earth. We have more resources per capita than anyone. The US spans nearly every climate zone. We can have a completely self-sufficient, world-class standard of living. In the long term, no other nation could come close. Totally free trade is not in our best interests. The founders knew this, and wrote tariffs right into the Constitution. It is only in recent decades that politicians have sold out this power to the WTO and globalist institutions. It didn't improve the lives or earnings of the average American over the last thirty years. And it's high time for the farce to end.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  18. Re:Oh for %&*#'s sake by benjamindees · · Score: 2

    Something tells me that more people die every year from spider bites than from nuclear energy.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  19. Re:Have every last one of them declared terrorists by SydShamino · · Score: 2

    I think unions are a fine thing and every employee ought to have the right to join a union -- and every employer ought to have the right to say "fuck off, you're fired immediately and forever, we will NEVER allow union labor here"

    And next time the union will form in secret. It's not like you can control who your employees assemble with in private, right? You won't know about it until the strike.

    "Aha!" you say, "I'll fire them all then!" Sure. And next time they won't just strike, they'll lock themselves to their machines.

    "But that's illegal!" you exclaim. Sure it is. But who's going to arrest them? In your hypothetical world, what're the odds that you're willing to pay enough in taxes for the police force to be from the upper class? They're most likely worker class folks too, just like your employees (and probably related to them as well). Even if you do manage to get them arrested, what are the odds that they'll be convicted by a jury of their peers? And, even if convicted, why do you think that would matter? People are willing to die to improve the lives of their families - what's a misdemeanor trespassing conviction?

    "If I sue them they'll lose everything. That's not protecting their families." you pronounce. What exactly would you sue them for? Their house? Their car? Their retirement savings? In your hypothetical world your workers have none of those, because all of those things became possible because of unions.

    Or maybe instead of a sit-in strike, it just so happens that your plant catches fire a few hours after the strike starts and burns down, since the volunteer / worker class firefighters are a bit slow protecting an empty factory. Shucks. One hothead employee gets caught and spends a dime upstate, while his family is the best taken care of in town. Meanwhile you're out of work, too.

    In short, your idea has been tried. It failed. Miserably. So something else was tried. It worked at the time. Maybe it's not working as well now, but it hasn't failed yet. If you come up with something better maybe we can try it next.

    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  20. Re:Have every last one of them declared terrorists by SydShamino · · Score: 2

    Oh, and what if you create a safe working environment for your employees, pay them a fair wage, and give them job security in the case of illness or workplace injury?

    Then it's not likely your workers would form a union in the first place. Also, you'll be put out of business by the guy down the street who doesn't do any of those things and can undercut your prices - at least until his workers strike.

    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.