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Court Upholds Blizzard's Anti-Bot DMCA Claim, Denies Copyright Infringement

An anonymous reader writes "The Ninth Circuit reversed a $6.5 million judgment for Blizzard against MDY Industries, saying that making bots is not copyright infringement. The bad news for MDY? The court found that they did violate DMCA Section 1201(a)(2) (PDF), which prohibits trafficking in products that circumvent technologies designed to control access to copyright-protected works."

143 comments

  1. Crack down on spam already. by jack2000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Now if blizzard would only take care of its battle net servers. I swear the damn bots are everywhere in D2 bnet, every single realm.
    You can't have a non password protected public game without them constantly entering and advertising websites to buy items. (which should also be illegal)
    To say nothing of the bots that autorun the game and hunt for items killing the damn economy fffffffff....

    1. Re:Crack down on spam already. by TC10284 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you are damn right about that. I play D2 daily. Every game you create you get tons of spam. Sometimes you can't even see the game. But you get the most if your game name has "hell", "rush", "help", etc. The only bots I like are the Chaos and Baal run bots. You can get really good drops following those guys. Some bots don't even pick them up. I'm about to hop on.

    2. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      Illegal? That's a bit extreme. Are we going to have internet police to enforce it? There are rather simple ways Blizzard could stop spammers but they've chosen not to. If you want the spammers to go away, vote with your wallet. If you see spammers in a game, it's most likely because it's more profitable for the developer to let them stay. A good example was EQ2 back in the day... the spammers would buy a box for $30 and get banned within a few hours. 1 box per server x 20 (or so) servers x $30 x 3-4 days a week = a lot of reason not to do anything that would really stop the spamming all together.

    3. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I feel like I'm taking the wrong side of the arguement - I mean I am generally okay with Blizzards business model though I haven't played any of their games in a while. Wavering back and forth on whether D3 will be worth the DRM, SC2 in my humble opinion wasn't worth the hassle. So any negative feelings towards Blizzard aren't based on any moral grounds or principles or anything like that, I am fine with them having their tight restrictive measures - it helps them crack down on things like bots, and if they want to do that all the more power to them.

      But I'm a little wary of claiming bot software is a DMCA violation. That is stretching it a little bit - because the DMCA is mainly meant for Copyright infringement, and also those who wish to get around DRM.

      The bot doesn't go against any laws besides those set forth by the Terms and Conditions you agree to when playing WoW. And it shouldn't be against the law, I am REALLY afraid of this being the first step towards bringing the lawyers and judicial system into the gaming realm where publishers will no doubt use it to strong-arm their ideas of whats best. Suppose Some 14 year old hacks in TF2 - Valve catches them, wants to make an example, sues them for damaging the content of other people's games, goes for some ridiculous statuatory amount in the multiple thousands, and /. covers the story!

      I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a good road to go down. Blizzard should be entirely responsible for keeping their house in order - if they can't do it, that should reflect on their product, or they should alter their product to handle it. Don't go to the police.

    4. Re:Crack down on spam already. by jdpars · · Score: 1

      Calm down. I know several people say "illegal" instead of "Violation of the Terms of Use and/or the End User License Agreement."

    5. Re:Crack down on spam already. by jdpars · · Score: 1

      Believe me, they've tried suing them for violating their contract. The spambots won that one. Using the DMCA is their last resort. And also, Blizzard dumps millions into preventing these guys. They don't need their money (despite what an above poster said). As soon as Blizzard patches an exploit or blocks a bad IP address, a new one pops up. As far as your slippery slope argument, that's silly. If anything it will show people that the DMCA is broken and new, more accurate laws are necessary to define (and limit) the government's role in the internet.

    6. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd like to see a reciept that says that millions are actually being dumped into preventing these guys.

      It would not be as difficult as they claim. If someone gets found using Glide, delete their account, ban their credit card from subscribing, don't let them use that email address to register for a new account.

      Make it entirely unprofitable to run an operation like this and you'll cut out a lot of riff-raff. Thing is they are afraid to get a false positive and the bad rap that comes with it. I should be allowed to download and run any software I want on my computer. I should be allowed to develop any software I want. If they want bots to be illegal, they should lobby to make it a law, not tack it onto the DMCA.

      Going after the developers of Glide is like going after the owners of BitTorrent, not the actual people distributing content.

      I just don't like it. It's abusing the system to meet their goals. No matter moral or just the goal is, the end does not justify the means. They shouldn't be using DMCA to achieve this.

    7. Re:Crack down on spam already. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      and also those who wish to get around DRM.

      Sadly, sometimes these people are just angry customers. They're the ones being hurt.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    8. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      You forgot rocket propelled grenades - the only message a real spammer understands.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    9. Re:Crack down on spam already. by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      Calm down. I know several people say "illegal" instead of "Violation of the Terms of Use and/or the End User License Agreement."

      That is not reason to calm down, it's about the most frightening piece of news I've heard all day.

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
    10. Re:Crack down on spam already. by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I don't think there's a lot they can do about it, otherwise they probably would. Even when the game was new this was a big problem and they couldn't stop in when they probably had a larger support team looking at the game. The BNet system probably wasn't built to handle problems like that and Blizzard may not have anticipated that such a problem would exist.

      They're running the D2 server software on pretty ancient hardware (at least by today's standards) so it's not as though they can easily upgrade it to code in new fixes. This much they mentioned when they released the latest content patch for the game and explained why certain changes couldn't be made.

      The bots don't really destroy the economy, they just add more crap to it, which drives the price of almost everything downwards. That actually benefits the average person as they've better access to better weapons. Perhaps you consider that ruined, but from the average person's perspective, it's not exactly a bad thing. Also, since D2 has random stats on almost everything, the values of items can vary widely from essentially worthless to decently valuable. It seems to me that as of recently, most people were using bots to get to the top of the ladder.

    11. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      A good example was EQ2 back in the day... the spammers would buy a box for $30 and get banned within a few hours. 1 box per server x 20 (or so) servers x $30 x 3-4 days a week = a lot of reason not to do anything that would really stop the spamming all together.

      Actually, the gold farmers frequently buy subscriptions using the credit card info they get from their customers. When the cardholder gets their bill, they complain, and the credit card company does a chargeback, which not only takes away the subscription fee from the MMO company, but also charges them a chargeback fee, and could even cause other fees to be higher if their chargeback rate exceeds a certain threshold.

      Meanwhile, when spamming, they typically use these accounts when they believe a chargeback is imminent (since the account will be closed anyway), or they use accounts for which they've gotten the login info through phishing or keyloggers.

    12. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? That fits the definition of illegal perfectly.

    13. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      I should be allowed to download and run any software I want on my computer. I should be allowed to develop any software I want.

      Sure, go for it. Just don't log into the WoW servers while you're doing it.

      Personally, I'm not too keen on using the DMCA to this end, either. I always thought that tortious contract interference (which was a different count in the suit, and on which MDY has also been found liable) was the way to go, but there may be some legal niceties associated with that concept that I'm not familiar with.

    14. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Actually no, if the spammers ever did that, they'd lose customers. It would be insanely stupid of them. This was just a rummor drummed up by people that were trying to get the people that buy gold to stop. The fact of the matter is, the gold vendors that exist today have been around for almost a decade in most cases. They live and die off their reputation. The truth is, if they misused their customers credit card info even just a few times Visa and MasterCard would drop their contract and cut them off in a matter of minutes. On top of that, most people that buy and sell gold are very paranoid about the whole deal and usually use a service like paypal.

    15. Re:Crack down on spam already. by klingens · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I don't think there's a lot they can do about it, otherwise they probably would.

      This is wrong. Any experienced D2 player can tell you inside of 2 minutes if a Char running around is bot or not. Identifying Spambots is obviously even easier.

      Even when the game was new this was a big problem and they couldn't stop in when they probably had a larger support team looking at the game. The BNet system probably wasn't built to handle problems like that and Blizzard may not have anticipated that such a problem would exist.

      The main boast Blizzard made about Battle.net and D2 "closed" online play was: it's hackproof! This came after the tons of trivial cheats happening with D1 played online. So they failed in the number one design goal of Online Play for D2.

      They're running the D2 server software on pretty ancient hardware (at least by today's standards) so it's not as though they can easily upgrade it to code in new fixes. This much they mentioned when they released the latest content patch for the game and explained why certain changes couldn't be made.

      No hardware needed. 2-3 students per realm and there'd be a LOT less bots, of the spam or the itemfind/level variety, out there. But that'd have consequences: the D2 economy "crashes". Without MF bots to find stuff, people can't have their teleport armors in a day of playing anymore, which would take out the "fun" for many, and make the player base shrink. After all, if you need 2-3 months of hours of daily play for this armor, it's a lot less common.

      The bots don't really destroy the economy, they just add more crap to it, which drives the price of almost everything downwards. That actually benefits the average person as they've better access to better weapons. Perhaps you consider that ruined, but from the average person's perspective, it's not exactly a bad thing. Also, since D2 has random stats on almost everything, the values of items can vary widely from essentially worthless to decently valuable. It seems to me that as of recently, most people were using bots to get to the top of the ladder.

    16. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      IGE may rely on its reputation, but it isn't the only game in town. There are so many different spammers/sellers out there, and all they have to do is register a new domain name if the old one loses its pizzazz. Same thing with the company names and the contracts with CC companies. Plus, they don't have to use the CC info right away - they can wait several months and use it then, when the chances of people making a connection are reduced.

    17. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I just went ahead and checked a couple of the ones being spammed in WoW's trade chat. They all offer Paypal. Now, I know we all hate Paypal here, but I can't imagine there's any safer way to do it in this case.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    18. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Lakitu · · Score: 3, Funny

      If that frightens you, you should log off the internets before you see how people online use the word rape.

    19. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Just a correction on what I said above - there was a summary judgment in the district court against MDY on the tortious contract interference count, but it was vacated and remanded by the appellate court for further consideration because there was an issue of material fact still to be decided.

    20. Re:Crack down on spam already. by ZombieRoboNinja · · Score: 2

      It would not be as difficult as they claim. If someone gets found using Glide, delete their account, ban their credit card from subscribing, don't let them use that email address to register for a new account.

      The problem is that a great deal of the people using Glide are gold farmers using stolen accounts and/or accounts opened with stolen credit card numbers. So while Blizzard can and does ban accounts caught botting, all that really does is provide farmers more incentive to come up with creative trojans and scams to hack people's accounts.

      Not defending Blizzard's legal tactics here, but this is the issue they're dealing with.

    21. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that frightens you, you should log off the internets before you see how people online use the word rape.

      No need to worry. It's only the Jews.

    22. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If someone gets found using Glide, delete their account

      I guess we must move to OpenGL, then.

    23. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Every game you create you get tons of spam.

      Set a level limit. If I exclude level 1 and 2 players from a game, I haven't seen a single spambot.

    24. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Morth · · Score: 1

      Citation needed... Anyway, I don't see why they can't just have some ppl listening on all the trade channels and banning the bots as soon as they pop up. I always right click and report when I see them. Blizzard should be doing this themselve, beats me why they aren't.

      And don't tell me it'd be too expensive. One person can easily follow many channels, and there's only so many servers.

    25. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down. I know several people say "illegal" instead of "Violation of the Terms of Use and/or the End User License Agreement."

      Ya, so do I. And it's because they don't understand the difference between a private company policy and something which has the weight of law behind it. Or in other words, they really do feel that it should be a criminal act to violate a private agreement.

      If it was just a simple matter of how the word is used, I'd agree with you. But in this case it's a lot deeper than just how the word is being, used, it's indicitive of a very problematic line of thinking.

    26. Re:Crack down on spam already. by bipbop · · Score: 1

      With the increased rune drop rates, I found both a Jah and a Ber within a week of making it to Hell mode. Yeah, that includes an unreasonable amount of grinding, but not cheating. (It was about the span of getting from level 81 to 86.) You can get an Enigma "easily" without cheating or depending on other users who cheat, these days. I still think it's a waste of time grinding for things, but it's a waste of a much smaller amount of time than it was before.

      From what I understand, people still attack the servers to lag and crash them, in order to cheat (dupe items), despite the much lower values of high runes in 1.13. I have never played in a game without a password (except by accident, which I discover when I am immediately spammed), but I was quite unhappy to read that the reason my games lag out / crash and I lose items, is so that people can cheat and dupe items. I'd been under the naive impression that if I played on battle.net, and didn't trade with people I didn't know, that rampant cheating wouldn't affect me, but from what I'm told (by my friends who DO play/trade with random people), duping is still very common despite all the half-measures Blizzard has taken. I consider this the real problem, mainly because besides ruining the economy, having your game drop and losing something nice is really frustrating :-(

      This is my perspective as a d2 "n00b" anyway.

    27. Re:Crack down on spam already. by Lord+Kestrel · · Score: 1

      "Ruining the economy". You're funny. D2 hasn't had an economy for 10 years. The day the first guy figured out how to dupe sojs, it ended. And hell, even before that when people realized you could gamble for sojs by having the other unique rings in your stash. D2 and economy are two words that don't go together.

  2. DMCA is useful? by Kinthelt · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As much as it hurts me to say it, it seems that the DMCA is useful in this case.

    This is what it was made for. The original spirit of the act.

    --

    "Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

    1. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the difference between a bot or paying a Chinese farm for doing it manually with near slave labor?

    2. Re:DMCA is useful? by mweather · · Score: 0

      Nothing. Both are DMCA violations.

    3. Re:DMCA is useful? by GodWasAnAlien · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > As much as it hurts me to say it, it seems that the DMCA is useful in this case.

      What leads you to that conclusion? There is nothing useful about the DMCA.

      The article seems to imply a dangerous precedent:

      "Thus, even though – as discussed above – the court ruled that Glider did not facilitate copyright infringement, MDY could still be liable under the DMCA for circumventing Warden's detection features."

      So the DMCA can apparently be used to attack reverse engineering that was not necessarily used to facilitate copyright infringment.

    4. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kinthelt · · Score: 0

      > As much as it hurts me to say it, it seems that the DMCA is useful in this case.

      What leads you to that conclusion? There is nothing useful about the DMCA.

      It was useful in this case because it gets rid of bots. I'm looking at the destination, not the journey. :)

      --

      "Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

    5. Re:DMCA is useful? by poetmatt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      do you even have a remote clue what you're talking about?

      they're saying that wowglider broke encryption via running a scripting bot that has nothing to do with it.

      This is blizzard's "we're protecting our business model via lawsuit" argument.

      so it's a bad precedent, which a lot of people lose on from this.

    6. Re:DMCA is useful? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm looking at the destination, not the journey. :)

      AKA "The Ends Justifies the Means."

      Meanwhile this particular end has nothing to do with what the DMCA "was made for" or "the original spirit of the act."

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    7. Re:DMCA is useful? by poetmatt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      getting rid of bots fails to answer as to what has gone on to encourage bots in the first place.

      if you think getting rid of bots is good, you are missing both the destination and the journey.

      the underlying question should be: how has this game become so repetitive that people can automate it in the first place?

      oh right, blizzard, grind, etc.

    8. Re:DMCA is useful? by pitchpipe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What leads you to that conclusion? There is nothing useful about the DMCA.

      Favorite $MEGACORP wins case. Must be justified. Case closed.

      --
      Look where all this talking got us, baby.
    9. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why are you still playing the game if it's boring?

    10. Re:DMCA is useful? by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um, go on. What was the original spirit of the act?

      The cynical view was that it was intended to prevent anything that anyone doesn't like. In that respect, you're right.

      The naive/front purpose of the act was that it was intended to prevent copyright infringement, by making prohibiting some of the prerequisites to copyright infringement (as well as prohibiting the prerequisites to many fair uses as well, but you can't make an omelet without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others). In that respect, this application of DMCA has nothing to do with its original purpose.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    11. Re:DMCA is useful? by somersault · · Score: 2

      the underlying question should be: how has this game become so repetitive that people can automate it in the first place?

      I'm not trying to defend Blizzard, I've never found any of their games attractive, but tell me this.. what games can you think of that it wouldn't be easy to make a bot for? I can't really think of any.

      Getting a computer to play a game is easy. It's trying to get it to play a game while appearing human that is a challenge.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    12. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > what games can you think of that it wouldn't be easy to make a bot for?

      Go. Or any game like it with enough complexity than humans can do it, but computers can't.

    13. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that bots are made for the purposes of holding a conversation, is it such a surprise to you that one can automate activity in a game?

      Especially given that the bots do not perform the high-end content of the game, just the routine. That's like saying you can get a robot to repeat the stops on a train route.

      Big deal.

      How divergent do you want the game to be?

    14. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that bots are made for the purposes of holding a conversation, is it such a surprise to you that one can automate activity in a game?

      We were discussing you, not me.

      Especially given that the bots do not perform the high-end content of the game, just the routine. That's like saying you can get a robot to repeat the stops on a train route.

      Oh... can get a robot to repeat the stops on a train route?

      Big deal.

      OK... "Especially given that the bots do not perform the high-end content of the game, just the routine. That's like saying you can get a robot to repeat the stops on a train route". Tell me more.

      How divergent do you want the game to be?

      We were discussing you, not me.

    15. Re:DMCA is useful? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Meanwhile this particular end has nothing to do with what the DMCA "was made for" or "the original spirit of the act."

      Man... who could have thought the government actually would have run down that slippery slope when it came to its citizens' rights?

    16. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kinthelt · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Blizzards owns the content to WoW, and the players are licensees (which shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody since they pay a subscription). The content inside WoW can only be accessed via a client which Blizzard controls. The content of WoW is copyright. WoW put safeguards up (via Warden) to prevent unauthorized access to this content. MDY circumvented Warden.

      Open and shut case.

      --

      "Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

    17. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      the new TOS is tighter than anything ive ever seen (Updated during SC2 release and cataclysm)
      we the community have been bitching at them for a long ass time to start dealing with all the cheats.

      they take sc2 and wow pretty serious, d2 is history. d3 however is worth money and reputation.
      the community will mostly support any attacks by blizzard on cheaters. especially if its legally
      straightforward. (the new TOS reserves no end of rights, presumes no end of powers, and restricts
      counter claims for damages)

      GJ blizzard.

    18. Re:DMCA is useful? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      The article seems to imply a dangerous precedent:

      "Thus, even though - as discussed above - the court ruled that Glider did not facilitate copyright infringement, MDY could still be liable under the DMCA for circumventing Warden's detection features."

      So the DMCA can apparently be used to attack reverse engineering that was not necessarily used to facilitate copyright infringment.

      "Not necessarily used"?

      Here, let me simplify this for you: the lawsuit is over a third-party program that knowingly and intentionally bypasses the security protection scheme in a network client. Hell, I'm fairly sure any other program that does something like this would be considered malware!

      Honestly, I don't know why Blizzard didn't just sue Glider over intent to induce contract violations (whatever the legal term is for that).

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    19. Re:DMCA is useful? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Computers can play Go. A normal desktop computer of course would suck against a decent human player because of lack of resources, but it would still be able to actually play the game. Then again, a normal desktop computer back in the 80s probably sucked at Chess against decent players too.

      By the way, supercomputers are starting to do pretty well at Go. It's not that the game is difficult for computers to understand, it's just that it has a massive search space, so it's difficult for the computer to know which moves are most advantageous in the long run.

      Or any game like it with enough complexity than humans can do it, but computers can't

      Okay, so what are they? I was thinking more of video games than board games btw.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    20. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see how a Chinese farm (e.g. real person doing the work) is a violation. It would be a violation of ToC, but not DMCA.

    21. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Blizzards owns the content to WoW, and the players are licensees (which shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody since they pay a subscription).

      And?

      The content inside WoW can only be accessed via a client which Blizzard controls.

      I understood glider uses the proper client.

      The content of WoW is copyright.

      This was NOT copyright infringement.

      WoW put safeguards up (via Warden) to prevent unauthorized access to this content.

      MDY circumvented Warden.

      Bypassing a game bot is also not a crime despite it's intimidating name.

      Open and shut case.

      Good thing you're not a lawyer.

    22. Re:DMCA is useful? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      WoW put safeguards up (via Warden) to prevent unauthorized access to this content.

      But that's the point. Maybe we disagree what the purpose of the act was?

      Preventing "access" for reasons completely unrelated to trying to prevent copyright infringement, was one of the radical new things DMCA did which wasn't part of the naive/surface interpretation that I stated. DMCA was described to laymen as giving copyright holders new ways, useful in the "digital age," to fight or prevent infringement, rather than giving them completely new types of powers (and conversely, creating totally new prohibitions for the public which aren't related to fighting copyright infringement).

      Of course, one of the core things about this decision, is that it rejects the need for there being anything related to copyright infringement, for a DMCA violation to apply. This court would have ruled opposite to how the garage door opener case's court would have ruled, whereas that court probably would have only said a DMCA violation happened, only if the bot was did things like help people capture the "dynamical nonliteral elements" of the game so that people could sell WoW experience movies (presumably with the "literal" elements removed, since good old' fashioned copyright would already prohibit that).

      They're taking the position (and they explain it) that DMCA really was intended to be as evil as it reads, isn't necessarily intended to merely make copyright infringement harder at the expense of fair use, and therefore should be applied more aggressively. I'm not saying that's a wrong decision, but it does go against what is often billed as the original purpose of DMCA, and therefore gives the people another good reason to repeal it. They're upholding the "access" prohibitions of DMCA, saying that nobody gives a fuck whether or not anyone's copyright is being violated or anyone is losing money or incentive to create works is effected -- nobody gives a fuck about the purpose and spirit of copyright; Congress prohibited access and tools that help you access, and if you don't like it: tough shit, write your Congressman.

      And we should.

      the players are licensees (which shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody since they pay a subscription)

      I think that would be a huge surprise to most people, and that most of them think they're paying a subscription for a service, rather than a "dynamic nonliteral element" playback license.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    23. Re:DMCA is useful? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      the lawsuit is over a third-party program that knowingly and intentionally bypasses the security protection scheme in a network client. Hell, I'm fairly sure any other program that does something like this would be considered malware!

      But software designed and intended to serve the interests of the user, can't ever possibly be malware. Oh wait, I see what you did there.. very clever. You used the word "security" without saying whose goals you were talking about. Security is subjective, and when people have conflicting interests (as is usually the case whenever proprietary software is involved) then once party's security is another party's insecurity.

      Honestly, I don't know why Blizzard didn't just sue Glider over intent to induce contract violations (whatever the legal term is for that).

      They did (that's the tortuous interference part of the case) but decided to use everything they thought might stick.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    24. Re:DMCA is useful? by psycho12345 · · Score: 1

      Any sufficiently advanced RTS, like Starcraft?

    25. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think D.U.D.E could do better.

    26. Re:DMCA is useful? by Lloyd_Bryant · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I don't know why Blizzard didn't just sue Glider over intent to induce contract violations (whatever the legal term is for that).

      I believe it's called Tortious Interference

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I had one once. It sucked.
    27. Re:DMCA is useful? by Imrik · · Score: 1

      Not horribly difficult to bot, just pointless. Without something carrying over to the next game the bot is just a computer opponent.

    28. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Malware does stuff the user doesn't want. The users of Glide want it to do what it does.

    29. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, other customers of Blizzard don't want the users of Glide doing what they do.

      Go figure

    30. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing useful about you, either, but we still deal with you...

    31. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > the lawsuit is over a third-party program that
      > knowingly and intentionally bypasses the security > protection scheme in a network client.

      I thought DMCA had something to do with copyright infringement.

      How is network security related to the DMCA?

    32. Re:DMCA is useful? by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      The content inside WoW can only be accessed via a client which Blizzard controls.

      I understood glider uses the proper client.

      You misunderstood the part where Blizzard controls the client. As soon as you start Glider, you are breaking the ToS on Blizzard’s client and you no longer have the right to use it.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    33. Re:DMCA is useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Um, it's a bad precedent that companies protect the integrity of their interests through the use of a court of law???

      Since when did people lose from that? Would you rather they be restricted to sheer voluntary consent, or to the use of coercive force that is not regulated by the court system?

      Exactly what do you want Blizzard to do instead?

      Or do you want the customers of Blizzard to suffer from the actions of a few? Are we to have no say in what we want???

      Blizzard's interests do not trump the rights of even one man, no matter how much you dislike bots.

    34. Re:DMCA is useful? by Fiduciary · · Score: 2

      The content inside WoW can only be accessed via a client which Blizzard controls.

      I understood glider uses the proper client.

      You misunderstood the part where Blizzard controls the client. As soon as you start Glider, you are breaking the ToS on Blizzard’s client and you no longer have the right to use it.

      Where is the circumventing copy protections part? Nobody argued that is isn't against the TOS. I wonder where the breaking of law happened.

        If running the client isn't copyright violation, how is warden a copy protection mechanism? It doesn't seem to be protecting blizzard's copyright according to the judge.

    35. Re:DMCA is useful? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Glide isn't installed on their computer, is it? It's not malware.

      Some people may not want other players camping, or spamming with powerful weapons just like others don't want people to use bots. In reality, a bot is just playing the game like everyone else, just far more efficiently. I don't see a problem with this.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    36. Re:DMCA is useful? by dawnpatrol1623 · · Score: 1

      It's not that [Go] is difficult for computers to understand, it's just that it has a massive search space, so it's difficult for the computer to know which moves are most advantageous in the long run.

      You seem to be saying that computers get Go, but there's this little problem that prevents them from doing well. I'm sorry to inform you, but "know[ing] which moves are most advantageous in the long run" is the entirety of understanding a game.

      The only way I can see computers as basically "getting" Go is that Go is a turn-taking, deterministic game of perfect information, so in theory, all you have to do is solve the game tree and tada, winning strategy. Wikipedia gives the "game tree complexity" of Go (number of nodes in the tree?) as being on the order of 10^360. With maybe 10^80 fundamental particles in the known universe (rough estimate, sourced from Wikipedia also), I don't think Moore's law is gonna help a lot here.

    37. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Except they're not trying to trump a right. They're trying to trump someone developing software to interact with Blizzard's private property in a manner which is completely unintended, and in fact contrary to the rules upon which Blizzard grants you access to their property. The only rights being trampled are those of Blizzard and its component people thereof.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    38. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Actually, that's a rather interesting point you and the GP raise. I can see where he's coming from and I can see where you're coming from. You're arguing that as running the client isn't copyright violation, then you can't argue a DMCA violation. The GP seems to be arguing that as the running of a bot is in violation of the Terms of Service, therefore invalidating your right to run the game, it technically does violate the DMCA to circumvent Warden as the Warden component is designed to prevent the usage of the software in situations where your right to run the software is invalidated (e.g. where you're running a bot which violates the terms of service and EULA) - which technically makes it an effective copy-protection mechanism. Ergo, the DMCA does apply.

      I'd like to see the court's reasoning on this in detail, and would be interested in seeing some analysis by actual lawyers - it seems like it could be a very interesting discussion.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    39. Re:DMCA is useful? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Um, it's a bad precedent that companies protect the integrity of their interests through the use of a court of law???

      Since when did people lose from that? Would you rather they be restricted to sheer voluntary consent, or to the use of coercive force that is not regulated by the court system?

      Exactly what do you want Blizzard to do instead?

      Or do you want the customers of Blizzard to suffer from the actions of a few? Are we to have no say in what we want???

      Blizzard's interests do not trump the rights of even one man, no matter how much you dislike bots.

      The rights of people to get away with breaking the agreement to use someone else's service that they agreed to? To do something that degrades the user experience for all?

    40. Re:DMCA is useful? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Note to mods and meta-mods: The parent's post was not that controversial. Whether you agree or disagree with his position, there's no way that it earned a Flamebait mod.

    41. Re:DMCA is useful? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      The content inside WoW can only be accessed via a client which Blizzard controls.

      I understood glider uses the proper client.

      You misunderstood the part where Blizzard controls the client. As soon as you start Glider, you are breaking the ToS on Blizzard’s client and you no longer have the right to use it.

      Where is the circumventing copy protections part? Nobody argued that is isn't against the TOS. I wonder where the breaking of law happened.

        If running the client isn't copyright violation, how is warden a copy protection mechanism? It doesn't seem to be protecting blizzard's copyright according to the judge.

      It's not a copyright control mechanism, it's an access control mechanism. Copyright was really only part of the DMCA -- it's the access control provisions that may be the most controversial (and the worst part of the sprawling law, IMO).

    42. Re:DMCA is useful? by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      They're trying to trump someone developing software to interact with Blizzard's private property

      Samba interacts with microsoft's software, by your logic it should not exist.

      Taking away peoples ability to write software that interacts with other software just because the writers of the other software don't like it _is_ ridiculous.

    43. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      The private property is Blizzard's server infrastructure, not the World of Warcraft client. I don't dispute your right to fiddle with your own software, I dispute your right to fiddle with software that connects to a giant worldwide network owned by a private entity who grants you access to that network on a specific set of terms including "you will not fiddle with the software that connects to this network".

      What's ridiculous is that you think that's OK.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    44. Re:DMCA is useful? by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      I dispute your right to fiddle with software that connects to a giant worldwide network owned by a private entity who grants you access to that network on a specific set of terms including "you will not fiddle with the software that connects to this network".

      So ban/delete people who connect to the networks accounts, the authors of the program are not doing any wrong by writing it.

      The problem is they have the wrong target, it's much easier to target the program authors than it is for those who abuse their network.

    45. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      But that's not true either. The person writing the software is writing software for the sole purpose of allowing people to violate a contract- there's a law against that (I see "Tortuous Interference" bandied around a lot). And to create the software, they have to violate the contract themselves to test it.

      Hence, they are even more of a valid target than the users themselves. The DMCA may not be the law to use, but they are acting well within legal and moral boundaries to pursue the program author.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    46. Re:DMCA is useful? by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      And to create the software, they have to violate the contract themselves to test it.

      You do know the server protocol has been reverse engineered and people have made their own, sure it might not be bug for bug perfect but it would be more than enough to test with. Safest option to test the software too.

      The person writing the software is writing software for the sole purpose of allowing people to violate a contract- there's a law against that (I see "Tortuous Interference" bandied around a lot).

      First you need to establish there actually is a contract (eula's are shaky ground). Second, turtuous interference would require the developers themselves to individually tell people 'hey, use this on the official wow servers' after it has been established there is a contract.

      The mere existence of a tool which can cause harm does not make people do it.

      The DMCA may not be the law to use, but they are acting well within legal and moral boundaries to pursue the program author.

      "You can't write software I don't like because you are using a service I provide" is a slippery slope.

      What if google suddenly told people (not that they would) that everyone who browses google must use chrome and anyone found bypassing this will have their ip range permanently banned. Would you still be in support of it?

      As a better analogy, the pidgin IM client can connect to various chat networks, most of which have a clause somewhere to only use the official client. Since it is their service by you they have the rights to which things can connect and so no IM clients should exist except official ones and we should all have one client for each network.

      I hope how you see this can get ridiculous.

      Hating people who bot is not a justification to say 'you can not run whatever the hell you want on your own computer'

    47. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      You do know the server protocol has been reverse engineered and people have made their own, sure it might not be bug for bug perfect but it would be more than enough to test with. Safest option to test the software too.

      Said reverse engineering violated the original license too. But I won't address that right now as it's a very big debate that's still going on.

      First you need to establish there actually is a contract (eula's are shaky ground). Second, turtuous interference would require the developers themselves to individually tell people 'hey, use this on the official wow servers' after it has been established there is a contract.

      The mere existence of a tool which can cause harm does not make people do it.

      An EULA is not on shaky ground if offered for perusal prior to purchase actually, and there has not yet been an instance of a court deeming an EULA "shaky ground" even if it weren't - quit making stuff up. And even if it were, this is about a violation of the Terms of Service for using the service, something which has always held to be a binding legal contract. And the court does have the ability to decide the intent of the developer. Anyway, this line in the FAQ for Glider may help:

      Q: Can I run Glider on a private or emulated server?
      A: Running Glider on non-Blizzard servers is unsupported, as the client on such servers is generally confused, old, or both. We strongly recommend running Glider on official, paid servers. Come on, it's a great game, there's no reason to try to job Blizzard out of their monthly fee.

      "You can't write software I don't like because you are using a service I provide" is a slippery slope.

      You're phrasing it wrong. That's actually "You can't write software I don't like on a service I provide you." And that's not a slippery slope. Otherwise, you better use that same line when someone walks into your house with dogshit on their boots and tracks it on your carpet.

      What if google suddenly told people (not that they would) that everyone who browses google must use chrome and anyone found bypassing this will have their ip range permanently banned. Would you still be in support of it?

      Actually, yes, I would. I'd stop using Google, but that's my exclusive remedy to deal with Google offering me services on terms I don't like. I don't get to unilaterally tell then "no, you're giving me services on these terms".

      As a better analogy, the pidgin IM client can connect to various chat networks, most of which have a clause somewhere to only use the official client. Since it is their service by you they have the rights to which things can connect and so no IM clients should exist except official ones and we should all have one client for each network.

      AOL is the only one with a clause like that. The others just have clauses telling you not to expect the full experience (missing features, etc). Besides, it is their right to say that. Their service, their turf, their rules.

      I hope how you see this can get ridiculous.

      No, I can't. I can only see how the arguments against it are ridiculous.

      Hating people who bot is not a justification to say 'you can not run whatever the hell you want on your own computer'

      They're not saying that. They're saying "you can not run whatever the hell you want on connection with our services". If MDY weren't so fucking moronic as to recommend that people use the bot on the official service, then they could have argued that the intent was for people to run it connected only to emulated servers. But they were.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    48. Re:DMCA is useful? by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      Said reverse engineering violated the original license too.

      Who says you need a copy of the game to capture and analyze traffic going over your network? the ones doing the reverse engineering ideally would never even install the game.

      An EULA is not on shaky ground if offered for perusal prior to purchase actually, and there has not yet been an instance of a court deeming an EULA "shaky ground" even if it weren't - quit making stuff up.

      The problems with them tend to be the 'and you will give me your first born child' type clauses that are bullshit and unenforcable if they tried to legally. There are things you cannot claim in contracts and there also has to be a 'meeting of the minds' etc.

      Also, since when has the eula been on the outside of the WoW box, how does one read it before purchasing?

      Pretty sure if I return the box opened and say 'I did not like the eula' the staff would laugh at me when I want a refund.

      They're not saying that. They're saying "you can not run whatever the hell you want on connection with our services".

      What I run on my machine is my machine, no matter what it connects to. Their service is their service and they are free to ban me etc etc, but what I run on my machine is what I run.

      If you had your way everyone would still be using ma bell phones because nothing but their gear could attach to their network. Do you think people should have the right to choose their own end equipment? (or in this case software)

      But still, this all does not matter as most eulas are seen after purchase and have not been tested in court yet, and as this ruling has shown trying to use eulas in court can prove useless.

      Buying boxed software then after the purchase seeing 'by the way, this is a license, but you can't get replacement media and you have to buy another license if you lose the disc' is a sham.

    49. Re:DMCA is useful? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Agreed; Kinthelt's post was not flamebait (in fact, I think he very well distilled what the court's ruling was) and it's almost embarrassing to have participated in a thread that gets this kind of stupid moderation.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    50. Re:DMCA is useful? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Also, since when has the eula been on the outside of the WoW box, how does one read it before purchasing?

      Pretty sure if I return the box opened and say 'I did not like the eula' the staff would laugh at me when I want a refund.

      Well, they DO tell you on the box that use is subject to the End User License Agreement, and tell you that you can read it on their website - which you can do.

      What I run on my machine is my machine, no matter what it connects to. Their service is their service and they are free to ban me etc etc, but what I run on my machine is what I run.

      Right, so if I walk into your house wearing shoes with dog droppings on the bottom, and tell you "I am free to wear whatever I want on my feet regardless of whether it's your house", you'll just say "oh, it's OK. What you wear on your feet is what you wear"? No. Same principle applies. They tell you "you don't use our service if you don't like that you can't run whatever software you want in connection with our service", you either don't run the software they don't like, or don't use their service. You don't get to unilaterally decide which clauses of the terms of service you want to follow.

      If you had your way everyone would still be using ma bell phones because nothing but their gear could attach to their network. Do you think people should have the right to choose their own end equipment? (or in this case software)

      I don't recall when Blizzard was given a government granted monopoly on all online gaming. Perhaps your analogy is a little flawed?

      Buying boxed software then after the purchase seeing 'by the way, this is a license, but you can't get replacement media and you have to buy another license if you lose the disc' is a sham.

      Ah, the singular point we agree on.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  3. I would have gone with "interfering with computer" by RichMan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As Blizzard I would have gone with a case about improper access and interfering with the operation of computer system. The game clients are authorized to access and interact with the servers, the bots are an unauthorized access mechanism to the game servers. Simple plain and shut and clearly puts the bot runners in with the people that do destructive access to systems.

    -- and not enough characters to put "with a computer" in the title :(

  4. Re:I would have gone with "interfering with comput by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's, uhh, what the summary said.

  5. The take of someone who is anti-IP law by Zot+Quixote · · Score: 1

    I get that this may be further appealed again, but it does seem like the right decision. I might have ideological problems with bots like Glider, but secondary infringement? Really?

    Then again, there is still part of the decision I'm not a fan of with the violation of:

    The first provision, 17 U.S.C. § 1201(a)(1)(A), is a general
    prohibition against “circumventing a technological measure
    that effectively controls access to a work protected under [the
    Copyright Act].”

    Though the court is right, it was violated. Its just a bad law.

    1. Re:The take of someone who is anti-IP law by Fiduciary · · Score: 2

      I really have trouble understanding how glider violates 17 U.S.C Sec. 1201(a)(1). Glider does not touch warden or the client at all. It bypasses warden in the sense that warden doesn't detect a known cheating tool as installed or running on the system. It does not impair warden's operation. You might be inclined to say Glider 'avoids' detection in such a way that it is violating 17 U.S.C Sec. 1201(a)(1), but that is acceptance of Blizzard's right to catalog and examine for their approval anything you do while using their software.

      Say Blizzard wants to ban performance enhancing drugs in WoW because they give an unfair advantage. Children are now circumvention tools(say no to drugs kids). Anyone caught with children are now prohibited from playing WoW because they could bypass automated drug testing. The problem with the law is that anything can be a circumvention tool if you prohibit the right things.

      Maybe I don't want Blizzard to know that I use emacs. I'm fairly certain that you can make a wow-bot with that. If I make sure that emacs has a random installation signature every time warden scans my system, then I am circumventing blizzard's right to detect my use of emacs? No, I'm just not letting blizzard know I use emacs. I have no legal obligation to report correct information to blizzard about my computer usage.

      Is it just the fact that Blizzard doesn't want me to use WoW bots that makes avoiding their scans circumvention? The case can be made that they don't prohibit the use of bots through their copy protection, only the use of software that matches the signature of known bot software. Am I responsible for their inability to reliably detect software they don't like me running? Is hiding my emacs use any different from hiding my wow-bot use? If their detection is unreliable, is an unknown access vector which does not impede the operation of their detection software still circumvention of copy protection? Is it really the case that when any form of copy protection exists, even if it is almost entirely ineffective that not using the protected work precisely as proscribed by the copyright holder is a violation of 17 U.S.C Sec. 1201(a)(1) ?

      Scary.

      --------
      The law:

      Section 103 (17 U.S.C Sec. 1201(a)(1)) of the DMCA states:

              No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

      The Act defines what it means in Section 1201(a)(3):

              (3) As used in this subsection—

              (A) to circumvent a technological measure means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

              (B) a technological measure effectively controls access to a work if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.

  6. Perhaps it's only me.... by pablo_max · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am not sure if it's because of the advent of modern media, with its up-to-the-second news cycles that maybe only makes this seem true, but it really seems to me that our government is becoming more and more openly aggressive in showing that corporations are in complete control of our system.
    Some may think that this story is not related. It is. In a world where corporation control everything, laws like the DMCA are able to pass. I just can't imagine something like that happening 30 years ago, but perhaps it's just because they didnt have the tech which gave them the need.
    More and more, it seems you own nothing you buy.
    People complain sure, but no one does anything about. What can we do? Sure, I vote with my pocket book, since that's the only votes that actually matter anymore.
    Many it's time to go all French on our government? Maybe it's time to say, fuck no, the RIAA does not control our lives. Fuck no, the MIAA does not control our legal system. Fuck no, the government does not get to say that we look at on the Internet.
    Then again, perhaps not. Better just to wait until it's too late.
    There is a famous saying in Russia; Until thunder strikes, a man won't cross himself. Nice to see we have something in common.

    1. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by theNAM666 · · Score: 2

      A "socialist agenda?" Oh Jesus Christ. Who let the birther idiot on SlashDot? Anyone got his home address?

      IP law in general is fine. The chances that an "individual artist" in the United States could be protected by it, pretty laughable-- good luck getting an IP lawyer to talk to you if you weren't frat brothers or you're not paying him $350/hr.

      IP law today has been manipulated by the major corps/RIAA/MPAA for their own ends, to the exclusion of other interests. If it is inherently "a compromise," as Samuelson puts it, then it is a compromise that has failed.

      Of course, the thread-starter's whiny "we can't do anything" BS is more annoying than you birther freaks. Of course you can do something in a democracy; be politically active instead of having your head in the sand of your own self-interest. But that takes effort, and liberal kids want their cake handed to them on a silver platter.

    2. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by mrnobo1024 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Like it or not, IP is a significant contributor to much of the world's economy.

      It may be a huge contributor to the world economy, but it's a huge drain on the domestic economy, if you can't stop other countries from becoming free riders on it. China has no reason to pay for American IP when they can just take it and not pay. We can't do the same to them, because they make actual physical products. If things continue as they are, the unidirectional money flow is going to destroy the US.

    3. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by The+Snowman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you're really saying is the government is more openly aggressive, in the face of efforts to undermine the world's economy, showing that individual artists, musicians, programmers, and inventors are receiving help from the government to protect their sources of income.

      Bullshit. So if I call up the FBI and inform them of copyright infringement of one of my works, they will help? Not likely, unless I also happen to be in the legal department of a Hollywood corporation.

      IP law in the United States is written to benefit corporations, not the artists, musicians, programmers, and inventors. The man who "invented" Mickey Mouse is long dead at this point, but the Disney corporation is still profiting from the its perpetual copyright. Whom does IP law benefit? Not its creator.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    4. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by somersault · · Score: 1

      How the hell do bots have anything to do with IP or "undermining the world's economy"? Seriously.

      Yes, bots suck, but it's Blizzard's problem to deal with. Just making it illegal is not going to stop cheaters. For one thing, the DMCA is US only.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by lptport1 · · Score: 1
    6. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I honestly think going all French on a government wouldn't work here. These people will stop at nothing to protect their interests, and I think if people did take to the streets, they might start shooting. With that said, I think we SHOULD take to the streets. I don't think this is going to happen because life is still too comfortable for the average person, and there are still too many people ignorant of what's going on.

    7. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing I've learn from this post is that pirates are pro-socialists and love censorship! Their position is so weak they must censor rather than debate. That's pathetic and disgusting. And so goes the life of a pirate.

    8. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by pablo_max · · Score: 1

      Right, because voting for any of the political parties will yield results for the actual people. That's just bullshit.
      The current system to too far gone. The only recourse it to gut it. To start over. It will require a fight though because our "leaders" will not give up control, we must take it from them.

      So why dont you read my fucking post again. The whole point is that it is time for action, but you fuck all douche bags will do what you always do..nothing...oh I know...lets vote on it. Fuck off.

    9. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      The man who "invented" Mickey Mouse is long dead at this point, but the Disney corporation is still profiting from the its perpetual copyright. Whom does IP law benefit? Not its creator.

      Do you have any idea how much it costs to maintain someone in cryogenic suspension?

    10. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If things continue as they are, the unidirectional money flow is going to destroy the US.

      No, it won't, not at all. The money from China's Hollywood consumption would be helpful but is not at all required, Hollywood is self sustainable simply within domestic consumption. China's consumption isn't even a factor in the production.

    11. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      There is absolutely nothing here which indicates what you're saying. That's just pro-piracy hyperbole. Like it or not, IP is a significant contributor to much of the world's economy. Protecting jobs and by extension the economy is actually an excellent idea. The benefactors of such efforts include both small and large companies - and even individual artists, musicians, programmers, and inventors.

      Hyperbole - the game anyone can play. You've had your turn, me next.

      I agree. Since money is the only moral factor to consider here, I'm looking forward to when governments begin to protect the narcotics industry. Narcotics are a significant portion of many economies and is intertwined with much of the world's economy. Narcotics are a benefit to large and small crime syndicates and even benefits individual dealers and users.

    12. Re:Perhaps it's only me.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China is increasingly getting to a point where they're going to HAVE to play ball on the IP front. And in many ways, already do. You just don't get to move past a laboring countries economy without IP protection... which means treaties. Once you have treaties, you harp on enforcement. Your willingness to do so makes all the difference in your ability to mature past a country of laborers.

      It will happen, and there's no way they can avoid it. But for now, we'll exploit them for labor.

  7. TFA is a copy of an article by jcombel · · Score: 1
  8. can circumvent technologies be used by virus? by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    can the circumvent technologies clam be used by virus? fake anti virus? spyware?

    1. Re:can circumvent technologies be used by virus? by arivanov · · Score: 1

      My exact thought.

      As per this logic antivirus preventing a virus accessing a command and control network is illegal provided that the network "owner" has correctly formulated its copyright clauses.

      As per this logic virus, scareware, spyware, etc all can fall under DMCA besides the existing legislation on unauthorised access and hacking.

      That is some real stretching of the law way beyond what it was originally intended for.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    2. Re:can circumvent technologies be used by virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would LOVE to see a botnet creator try to use DMCA to defend their stuff.
      They would be charged with criminal conspiracy, their assets siezed, and the state would give everyone a free license to violate their copyrights for the purpose of cleaning things up.

  9. Re:I would have gone with "interfering with comput by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

    The game clients are authorized to access and interact with the servers, the bots are an unauthorized access mechanism to the game servers.

    Except glider doesn't access the game servers.
    They access the game client - which then accesses the game servers.
    Glider itself doesn't send or receive any data across the network, only the client does and that traffic is no different in nature or content than what could be generated by a human accessing the game client.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  10. Re:I would have gone with "interfering with comput by RichMan · · Score: 1

    "Glider itself doesn't send or receive any data across the network, only the client does and that traffic is no different in nature or content than what could be generated by a human accessing the game client."

    The same could be said of using ssh to connect to a server, it is no different in nature or content from what a human could send.
    Yet if you used the ssh connection and a client side script to cause the server to send lots of spam that would be improper use of the connection.

    It is not the connection nor the data stream, it is the entire interlocked system that is meant to be used for a specific purpose and in a specific way. The data stream between client and server is to be driven by a human in at the client controls. Fudging with the client end generates out of specification traffic for the system and represents a violation of the terms of access given to the account holder. The account access is authorized to only operate the client with human hands. The account access is not authorized to stick glider in control.

    Also when we are given accounts on systems we are not authorized to "do anything" we are authorized to only do specific things. There are many things we could do which would mess up the system. These things are considered sabotage of the system.

    sudo rm -rf /

    #!/bin/sh
    # This script is called "die"
    die &
    die &
    die &
    die &

  11. Re:I would have gone with "interfering with comput by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Glider itself doesn't send or receive any data across the network, only the client does and that traffic is no different in nature or content than what could be generated by a human accessing the game client."

    The same could be said of using ssh to connect to a server, it is no different in nature or content from what a human could send.
    Yet if you used the ssh connection and a client side script to cause the server to send lots of spam that would be improper use of the connection.

    Wrong. A malicious script behind a ssh client is significantly different in nature and content. A regular human typing those same commands would be just as unauthorized as the script. But a human using the game client to generate the exact same commands as glider does would be considered authorized.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  12. Hmm... by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

    What would happen if you had the bot software installed first and it had protections in it to stop warden from doing things to it... If you then installed the game, and Warden messed up your bot, wouldn't Blizzard now be guilty of the same thing they are accusing MDY of?

    1. Re:Hmm... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      What kinds of protections? There's really not much that a bot can do to require the Warden to circumvent a countermeasure in order to detect its presence. Scanning memory for a certain memory string doesn't require circumvention, for instance.

    2. Re:Hmm... by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      What kinds of protections? There's really not much that a bot can do to require the Warden to circumvent a countermeasure in order to detect its presence. Scanning memory for a certain memory string doesn't require circumvention, for instance.

      It could have its data encrypted, or have another process that detects when some other program is probing its memory space. This should be enough to qualify as protection under the DMCA. Warden doesn't just detect the presence of the program, it actively tries to shut it down according to wikipedia.

    3. Re:Hmm... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      It's not circumvention if you don't crack the encryption, and there has to be some portion of the process that is unencrypted in order to be executable in the first place. And who cares if there's a secondary process running to detect probing the first process's memory space - being detected isn't circumvention either.

      Also, Wikipedia is scant on details on what "shut it down" means, but it sounds more like they're talking about shutting down chatbots and such. This could mean that it merely disconnects the user from the server, which wouldn't involve killing any processes, but even if it does, it's not circumvention because killing the process doesn't grant access to a protected work.

    4. Re:Hmm... by Imrik · · Score: 1

      They aren't going after the users under the DMCA, they're going after the writers. Writing the bot in the first place required circumventing the DRM and reverse engineering the client. Blizzard would have to acquire a copy of the bot and reverse engineers it to improve Warden to be guilty of the same thing.

    5. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is circumvention if one goes around the human interface hardware (ie: circumvents it)
      I think you meant to say it's not cracking if you don't crack the encryption.
      Killing protective processes is also circumvention and if said processes are being used to prevent/control access to protected work, it's circumvention. That's called bypassing a security measure (ie: circumventing it)
      I don't have to crack an encrypted SSH daemon to crash it and do what I wanted to do through it with another process and yet I'd be circumventing the security measures by doing so.
      I think you need to read this
      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/circumvent

      being detected isn't circumvention

      That's correct though.

  13. OH GOOD!!! by MobyDisk · · Score: 2

    This is great news.

    1) The Copyright infringement thing made no sense. Loading software into memory is not a copy. Especially if you are the person who owns/licenses the software. If it was, every person on earth would be liable for 5 trillion counts of copyright infringement.
    2) This is *exactly* what the DMCA was made to stop. So if we are to debate the merits or downsides of the DMCA, this is perfect case to make an example of it.

    P.S. IF you don't like this ruling, don't blame the judge. He ruled according to the law. If you don't like it, write your congressperson explaining that this is why this is a bad law.

    Although frankly, I don't see why this isn't a simple contract dispute. The contract for WoW says "no bots" and this guy made a bot. I'm unclear why this is even a big legal issue. It should be a simple civil matter.

    1. Re:OH GOOD!!! by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      If you don't like it, write your congressperson explaining that this is why this is a bad law.

      Please do note, however, that this will only work if you have vast amounts of money, or if not listening to the people would have major consequences.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    2. Re:OH GOOD!!! by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2

      Loading software into memory is not a copy.

      Yes it is. A copy is defined as a material object in which a work is fixed such that it can be perceived directly or via a machine. If you have a program on a CD and write a duplicate to the hard drive, that's a new material object (the HD) in which the program is fixed, so it's a new copy. If you take that copy and write it into RAM, the RAM is a new object in which it's fixed. This has been (crappy) settled law for quite some time.

      If you own a copy of the software, there's an exception in the law that permits you to load it into memory, modify it as necessary in order to get it to work, and make backups. It doesn't apply if you merely license software, however; then you're stuck with whatever the license allows or disallows, which is why EULAs are a pretty important thing.

      If it was, every person on earth would be liable for 5 trillion counts of copyright infringement.

      That sounds about right. Copyright law is completely awful, and heavily weighted in favor of the interests of publishers and copyright holders against the public.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    3. Re:OH GOOD!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly which copyright protection mechanism was bypassed? Good luck finding one.

    4. Re:OH GOOD!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Loading software into memory is not a copy.

      This is wrong on both legal and technical levels. On a technical level, you'd have to be insane to state that copying data from disk to memory is not, uh, copying data. On a legal level, this is also recognized and specifically accounted for in the law, as without copying data into RAM a program is completely useless, and so this form of copying must be treated differently.

    5. Re:OH GOOD!!! by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      If you don't like it, write your congressperson explaining ...

      You know what's funny? Back in 2002 my dad received a legit e-mail from the office of our local congressman. It was thanking us for having sent them an email about passing some proposition or other, and stating that it had indeed been passed. His box's spyware used his Outlook Express for someone else's political agenda. We had no idea who his congressman was prior to this, and dad couldn't write an *English* e-mail, but that didn't stop his "support" from counting for a congressional decision.

      It's scary that someone else with "super dirty" political plans can ballot stuff laws using unwilling but PUBLICLY accountable* e-supporters. Worse if start auto-posting links about your "support" in your facebook given further account spying. The law may never pass, but its "dirtiness" would forever leave marks that you don't want in your FB profile, even after deleted. That's one reason I don't set up anyone's cable/DSL POP3 and just train them on webmail.

      * Imagine Anonymous using a campaign to create laws to support Assange, and how the FBI would be tracing and investigating all the unwilling email senders. Till specific scripts can be found, think of the discomfort the FBI could bring to someone like my father.

    6. Re:OH GOOD!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC...and IANAL... so take it with whatever salt. I'm out of state. Sitting on the bottom case of my bookshelf at home is a white hardcover book with a bright blue font on the cover from a 'cyber law' course I took in 2003. I can't even remember the title sadly.

      These statements essentially apply as a statement of fact in the US legal system. There might be some state or district where they don't...etc... but the law is... 'settled'.

      In the US legal system, installing software is an act of copyright infringement. It is in fact, most likely *three* separate instances. The first instance being duplication in memory as it is copied to the hard drive, the second instance being copying it into the hard drive, and the third instance being copying it into memory to execute it.

      I can't cite the case, my memory isn't that good...but it's a point of fact--decided in the 80's by somebody who successfully sued..appealed...and it went up through the courts.

      Now...no sane or reasonable person would agree with it. But at least if you're in the US--just purchasing software doesn't give you the right to execute it, if the act of execution would ever result in a copy of the software being made in memory.

      Yes, I'm not kidding. Some crazy fucked up asshole of a vendor actually sold a piece of software, and when the company didn't buy the extra copies they'd planned on... sued them for running it. More specifically, for copyright violations. And your judicial system ruled that installing the software made a copy of it for purposes of copyright. That's why you can't install software without a license. Doctrine of first sale might say you can run it--but not that you can copy it to do so. Have fun moving those bits and bytes in your head timmy.

        Being as I passed my CS101 courses a very long time ago--I understand that this effectively makes....all software without open copyright...unlawful. Our legal system doesn't. And the case has been used and cited in other cases. The short of it is...basically until congress passes a law changing things--you're fucked, legally speaking.

      IANAL...just somebody that studied some of the law. I'll be home in a week to look it up...

    7. Re:OH GOOD!!! by tepples · · Score: 1

      Copyright law is completely awful

      But how can it be changed as long as MPAA-owned news media have a disproportionate influence on who gets elected? I vote third party because both major parties support expansion of copyright, but third party hasn't won yet.

    8. Re:OH GOOD!!! by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      If you own a copy of the software, there's an exception in the law that permits you to load it into memory, modify it as necessary in order to get it to work, and make backups. It doesn't apply if you merely license software, however; then you're stuck with whatever the license allows or disallows, which is why EULAs are a pretty important thing.

      Whether or not software you buy actually counts as being "licensed" depends on which federal district you live in, and even within those districts, the extent to which the license can be enforced varies depending on the actual clauses within the license (Softman v. Adobe upheld a sold, not licensed, view, at least if you don't agree to the terms). It's an awfully confusing mess, and given that EULAs are almost always trying to get around consumer protection laws, I would like to see courts be much more vigilance in protecting against the abuses contained within them.

    9. Re:OH GOOD!!! by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Softman's not a very good case for this; the software was resold but it was never opened or run, though you might want to take a look at Specht v. Netscape. I'd suggest instead looking at ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg on the one hand, and Klocek v. Gateway on the other, for whether or not EULAs apply.

      The problem with EULAs, it seems to me, is really a subset of the problem with adhesive contracts in consumer transactions. It's yet another area where reform is needed.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  14. Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if instead of hacking the WoW client, I build an android to play the game and sell it on the free market. If I could accomplish the same thing, would my WoW playing androids be violating any of WoW's IP/CR?

    1. Re:Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Warden gives the player a Turing Test and your android fails the test, then that test will become a technological measure that controls access to the copyrighted experience. If, after that, you then modify your android to pass the test, and (this is important) you market your patched android as being able to pass the new test, then you will have violated DMCA.

      It will not violate copyright. It might violate the contract that you signed with Blizzard (you'll have to read it and check), although who will have violated the contract, isn't clear (you? or the android?).

  15. entitlement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real problem here is that Blizz is a corporation trying to deal with irrational customers. They try to be user friendly, but a certain segment of users aren't friendly. Those users feel they pay their $15 and are free to crap all over Blizz's servers and all of the other customers. "I have a right to my bot", "they owe me an API", "it's none of their business what code I run on my machine". I call BS. It is their BUSINESS when you screw with their customers and their servers. Personally, I'd love to see alot less QQ and a lot more account bans. Blizz doesn't owe anyone access to their servers beyond what they've paid for, and Blizz is free to stop accepting the money and kill the accounts.

    They went the DCMA route to try to attack the problem builders rather than their own customers. Unfortunately for Blizz, those specific customers are the real problem.
    Don't blame the gun manufacturers for the murderers.
    Don't blame the beer companies for the drunks.
    Don't blame the car manufacturers for the reckless and intoxicated drivers.
    Don't blame the restuarants for the obesity.
    It is the people choosing to abuse the tools and services, with no respect for the impact on others, that are at fault here.
    They are the ones that should be held responsible. They are entitled to nothing.

  16. Wait a minute.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to the court, making bots is not a DMCA violation, so by that token the bots are NOT "designed to circumvent copyright protection". Yet on the other hand, trafficking in them is? Is it just me, or is the court not completely contradicting itself here?

    This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, whatever you think about the DMCA.

    Why is DMCA being used when contract law should be more than sufficient anyway? Boot the bot users, if they're so horrible. Even if you're going to be a dick about it, computer crime laws are way worse than enough. Why are courts enshrining the DMCA as the be all and end all? Whole thing reeks of covert agenda.

  17. what about useing the DMCA to lock in oil change a by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    what about useing the DMCA to lock in oil change at the dealer that is very over priced and sues jiffy lube under the DMCA.

  18. The Golden Fence by Mateorabi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Exactly. This was one of the most compelling complaints against DMCA when Congress passed it:

    In the name of copyright protection it allows the content creators to build a fence. This 'golden' fence gets a special status under the law and is protected by the DMCA and people who breach it are considered law breakers. But the gross injustice is that along with legitimate copyrightable works, the content creators can put whatever else they want behind the fence. Want to deny a fair use? Integrate such use tightly with the enforced-by-law copyright protection mechanism. Activities that others would legitimately be able to do with the content that aren't infringing become untouchable, because to do so they must cross that golden fence.

    In my opinion, if content creators overreach and try to prevent fair-use activities by fencing things off within their copyright protection/access control mechanisms (such as this case) then the access control technology should lose its special status as legally protected under 1201(a)(2).

    You are a content provider who wants the protection of the law/legal-threat for your access mechanism? Don't want 'violators' to get a free pass? Tough. Only protect things that you had the right to protect in the first place.

    --
    "You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8

  19. What if Glider wasn't s/w on a PC, but instead.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... was a wetware mod running on a human host? A mod that puts the gamer into a coma-like trance, with the gamer's digits grinding away at the boring repetitive task, making the first few level of the game less tedious? Oh wait, that's just smokin' a d00b to the forehead....

  20. Bad judgement -- From TFR by jmerlin · · Score: 1

    First, I'd like to say that not only is the DC9 a steaming pile of shit, but they also store their summaries in PDF format which makes them assholes too. And finally, slashdot developers can eat my shit for disallowing paste. That's just horrible, you cunts.

    Let's quote from the summary:
    The district court, however, ruled for Blizzard following the trial as to its 1201(a)(2) and (b)(1) claims with respect to WoW's dynamic non-literal elements, or the "real-time experience" of playing WoW. It reasoned that Warden effectively controlled access to these elements, which could not be accessed without connecting to Blizzard's servers. It also found that Glider allowed its users to circumvent Warden by avoiding or bypassing its detection features, and that MDY marketed Glider for use in circumventing Warden. We turn to whether Glider violates DMCA 1201(a)(2) and (b)(1) by allowing users to circumvent Warden to access WoW's various elements. MDY contends that Warden's scan.dll and resident components are separate, and only scan.dll should be considered as a potential access control measure under 1201(a)(2). However, in our view, and access control measure can both (1) attempt to block initial access and (2) revoke access if a secondary check determines that access was unauthorized. Our analysis considers Warden's scan.dll and resident components together because the two components have the same purpos: to prevent players using detectable bots from continuing to access WoW software.
    So in summary of summary, they reasoned that access to the actual copyrighted content (the client and media distributed with it) were not seen as infringement, however because Glider is a bot that is undetected by Warden that it violates a DMCA -- Warden therefore is a DRM technology protecting the "copyrighted content" of the "online experience." That's right, the online experience is considered copyrighted (what next, are you going to copyright my thoughts you fucktards?). Further, this ruling is bad because it exposes an issue with the DMCA which I fully believe is unintended. People here say "this is what the DMCA is supposed to stop" -- no, you moron, it is not. Glider did not enable access to copyrighted content. You HAVE ACCESS already, you can log-in to the fucking game and play it. You do not need Glider to allow you to have access to the game. Nor does it remove a DRM so that you can pirate the game -- everyone using Glider had a legitimate copy because Glider interacts WITH A LEGITIMATE COPY OF THE GAME, it does not enable the use of it without a fully licensed copy. Let me quote from the DMCA the referenced portions:

    (a)(2):
    (2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that --
    (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological manner that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
    (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or
    (C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

    (b)(1):
    (1) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that--
    (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;
    (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright own

    1. Re:Bad judgement -- From TFR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're caught up on whether or not Warden is DRM. That is copyright-centric thinking. Nobody gives a fuck about copyright; this case was never about Blizzard feeling threatened by pirates or anything like that.

      Being an anti-cheat is what Warden is for, but being a technological measure that controls access is what Warden does.

      MDY's error was to market Glider as being able to defeat Warden. What they should have done, is market it as having no effect on Warden. Then the whole question of whether or not it really circumvents the tech measure that controls access, could have been fought. Instead, MDY lost that point by default.

    2. Re:Bad judgement -- From TFR by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      Sure, but the real problem here isn't that someone said something that got them in trouble (as this happens a lot), the problem is the entire reason that this trial even happened, and that is that Blizzard has made an argument that any software designed to prevent unwanted gameplay enhancements (aka: cheats, bots, etc) is a DRM and that they can use the DMCA as a result -- nevermind that we're not protecting copyrighted material here, nevermind that this has NOTHING to do with copyrights, we're just abusing the DMCA. MDY is pretty much fucked for being stupid about things, but we really, really don't want them walking away being guilty because of a DMCA violation because the above points stand. With this in hand, as I said, Blizzard can sue antivirus companies and anyone who's ever made intrusive (read: possibly malicious, like trojans etc) software for violating their copyright because all of that software does similar things to the BlizzGame.exe process and does so "bypassing" Warden. (or, more accurately, as you said, having no effect on Warden)

      All sorts of erroneous logic results when you allow an arbitrary piece of software with some goal to be conflated with a rights management scheme when it isn't. The judges should have thrown the DMCA claim out along with their realization that Warden doesn't actually protect copyrighted content. Instead they assigned some virtual "copyrighted material" idea that has no basis in law to the "online experience" of the game (oh wait, btw, protocols aren't copyrightable, but that's what we're saying here.. oh fun!) and claim that Warden is somehow protecting that -- even though Glider does not in any way (even so) allow you to circumvent the psuedo-DRM. This is a bad judgement and a very bad ruling and possibly one of the worst precedents ever set. Surely it will be appealed.

    3. Re:Bad judgement -- From TFR by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Because (b)(1) enumerates the rights of the copyright owner rather than access, the above arguments hold to these points as well. Simply put, Glider enhances gameplay, it does not afford you access to a protected work nor does it invalidate the copyright held by the owner, it merely allows you to do actions which Blizzard wishes you would not do.

      It provides the program access to the copyrighted work, and the program is not authorized. Blizzard Entertainment is the only group that gets to decide what programs are allowed to play the game, and only -players-, not programs are authorized to access the game client.

      Glider circumvents warden. No one's debating that point. Warden is what protects the game client from unauthorized access from programs, so Glider is guilty of (b)(1) -- it "is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof."

  21. Re:I would have gone with "interfering with comput by Xtifr · · Score: 1

    Except glider doesn't access the game servers.
    They access the game client - which then accesses the game servers.

    Ah, the overly-literal geek mind trying (and failing) to interpret the law again. "I didn't rob those people, I merely built the robot that robbed those people!" If the game client accesses the servers under the direction of glider, then glider is effectively accessing the servers--it's just doing it indirectly, like the guy with his robot.

  22. Re:I would have gone with "interfering with comput by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

    Ah, the overly-literal geek mind trying (and failing) to interpret the law again.

    Ditto. Glider is operating under the direction of the user - the same exact user who sits down directly at the client. You might as well argue that the auto-repeat in the keyboard is is effectively accessing the servers because the firmware running on the keyboard's microcontroller talks to the client software.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  23. Circumvention without Infringement? by Sparr0 · · Score: 1

    I hope this makes it to the Supreme Court. This ruling does not jive with the Federal Circuit ruling in Chamberlain Group v. Skylink Technologies and 5th Circuit in MGE UPS Systems v. GE Consumer & Industrial that link circumvention with infringement. In short, that circumvention is only illegal if it is for the purpose of infringement.

  24. Tetris bot by tepples · · Score: 1

    what games can you think of that it wouldn't be easy to make a bot for?

    Tetris is apparently one. The computer opponents in Tetris Party for Wii, for example, operate on the principle of brute force and ignorance: they play so fast as to out-TPM even the fastest Tetris players in the world instead of actually stacking for tetrises and T-spins.

    1. Re:Tetris bot by somersault · · Score: 1

      The question was not "which game do you think it would be hard to make a bot that plays humanly", just this guy was surprised that people can make bots that farm stuff in WoW.

      I don't get why people keep saying games that are difficult to perfect but easy to do the basics. I think if people want an example of a game that it would genuinely be hard for a computer to play well, then something like Poker is probably what they're looking for. You've already said that computers can play Tetris better than the best human player.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  25. and on Mac ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of this seems fun... But Blizzard sucks... Where's anti-cheating for Mac platforms? So, you want to cheat? Drop Windows and use a Mac. That says it all.