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What Can a Lawyer Do For Open Source?

zolltron writes "I have a friend who went to law school. He really enjoyed intellectual property law, and he seems to genuinely regret that he didn't end up as an IP lawyer. But, what's done is done, and he's not going to radically change career trajectories now. But, I think he might be interested in volunteering a little of his time if there was an interesting project he could get behind. Computer folks are always trying to figure out how to get involved in open source even if it won't be their full time job. So, now I ask you Slashdot, how can my friend use his expertise to help an open source project?"

162 comments

  1. Software Freedom Law Center by MrEricSir · · Score: 3, Informative

    Perhaps they could use some help?
    http://www.softwarefreedom.org/

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Yvanhoe · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The Pirate Party needs all the lawyers it can get. National pirate parties have varied quality but at least join the PP-int mailing list (http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general) legal advices can certainly be appreciated there.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    2. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by slashqwerty · · Score: 1

      He can draft proposed laws which could then be submitted to congress. It is no secret that congress does not write its own laws. Instead they take bills drafted by special interests and blindly submit them for a vote. Right now open source doesn't have much of a presence in congress. Your friend could change that by drafting proposed bills that would fix some of the troublesome laws we have.

    3. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by bigredradio · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What does the Pirate Party have to do with OpenSource? I am an advocate of OpenSource and CC because it is Free software. I do not agree with Piracy. That is why I use it. The fact that someone does not want to pay for something does not make it Free. That is just being a jackass.

    4. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by commodore64_love · · Score: 3

      As long as I can walk into a store, buy a DVD or CD, determine "that sucked", and then be denied the right to return that shit for a refund (or credit), I will continue to endorse sharing as a way to "try before you buy" in order to avoid being ripped off.
      Hell - even the lowly candybar makers have a refund policy if you don't enjoy their product. Record and movie companies should do the same because the price is ~20 times higher, and therefore that much more painful to the consumer's limited budget.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by quenda · · Score: 0

      A lawyer? Some form of protest was my first thought.

    6. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by gnufreex · · Score: 2
      --
      Microsoft's official position on standards: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/189826
    7. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Ihmhi · · Score: 3

      Well for one thing, the Pirate Party is probably the only political part in most countries that even gives a shit about open source on ethical or ideological grounds, not just "hey, free software lolololol" grounds.

    8. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So where in the partyprogram it says they are advocating Piracy?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Pirate_Party

      They want to reform copyright and fight against the banning of online sharing, that is something completely different from endorsing piracy....

    9. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least here in Finland, Pirate Party guys understand what Free Software is, and would really like to see government use it more.

    10. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does the Pirate Party have to do with OpenSource? [...] I do not agree with Piracy.

      What does the Pirate Party have to do with piracy (assuming you mean copyright infringement)?

    11. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by RichM · · Score: 1

      While they don't strictly deal with Open Source, the Electronic Frontier Foundation can always use more help and often have the same ideals as the Open Source movement.

    12. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The pirate party is not, at all, in any way shape form or fashion, about 'getting stuff for free'. Never has been, and (probably never will be). The name is reference to those that call us pirates, for wanting to do legal things.

      What the pirate party (as a movement) wants is a reform of copyright, patent and trademark laws (which will actually massively benefit open source, and the general populace as a whole) to restore privacy, and to increase government transparency. Just think how all that applies to open source software. There will be less overpriced no-bid IT contracts, less worry about copyright trolls attacking OSS coders, all kinds of benefits.

      However, it's the height of ignorance to just take a position on an international group about which you (clearly) had no knowledge.

      Andrew Norton
      Former head of both the US Pirate Party and Pirate Party International.

    13. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as I can walk into a store, buy a DVD or CD, determine "that sucked", and then be denied the right to return that shit for a refund (or credit), I will continue to endorse sharing as a way to "try before you buy" in order to avoid being ripped off.

      EVERY single store that sells music (including online stores) offer a free 'sneak peek' of almost every track through listening stations, etc. Movies provide trailers. That is called "try before you buy." With any purchase, there is the risk that you won't like it. But if you use it as it was intended and do not like it, you still used it, thus you should pay for it. If it sucks, don't buy from that particular artist, producer, etc again.

    14. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by bigredradio · · Score: 1

      I will take a 2nd look at the pirate party. But think for a minute as to why you think I have this perception? The party has received its popularity due to interaction and support of the Pirate Bay and other P2P sites. You are pretty naive if you think the majority of users are there sharing legally. Most are non-contributing zeros that just want to download stuff for free. If the goal of the movement is to reform copyright, patent, and trademark laws then I am for it. However, I think there are a few honest people at the top of a heap of those who could care less.

    15. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      First, the very bad name they have chosen is due to the fact that this whole thing started as a joke. They did not expect it to become that popular.

      Then, their position is that new economical models have to be found quickly because it is impossible to prevent file-sharing on a free Internet. This is not so much to get free mp3/moviez/softwares but to protest that no debate on copyright has been opened when TPB has been condemned. Their idea is that websites like TPB forces politician to consider alternatives.

      And also, as they say, they do not condone piracy, because, you know, attacking ships is kinda bad.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    16. Re:Software Freedom Law Center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He can help any free software company write their legal documents, Mozilla, etc ...

  2. His field? by eparker05 · · Score: 2

    It would help to know what field of law he is in.

  3. First things first by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, you say your friend went to law school. However, you don't mention whether or not he passed the Bar Exam and/or if he is currently practicing law. Both of these pieces of information would probably be helpful

    1. Re:First things first by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Actually, a third piece of information is probably the most helpful - what area of the law is he qualified to practice in?

  4. register copyrights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    among other things, the lawyer friend can tell you exactly how to register the copyrights on your software.

    1. Re:register copyrights by reebmmm · · Score: 2

      among other things, the lawyer friend can tell you exactly how to register the copyrights on your software.

      As an IP Lawyer, I can tell you that that's not really rocket science. The copyright office gives you pretty much everything you need to know here:
      http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ61.pdf

  5. Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    He can post here and end his rants with "IAAL".

    1. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh, another lawyer? He could do us all a favor and jump off a bridge, into an icy river.

  6. Forming an international, leaderless organization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The project which advocates open source governance has been trying over the years to coalesce into a formal organization, but desperately needs a lawyer to figure out how. A normal non-profit can just put together a board of directors and organize in their home country. But Metagovernment has two huge problems with this: first, they cannot/will-not be controlled by a small group of empowered individuals (completely goes against their core principles), and second they are explicitly not aligned with any nation or national interest. See their page on the issue: http://www.metagovernment.org/wiki/Startup/Organization

    No, it is not open source software, but seeing as open source governance is derived from the principles of free and open source software, I thought it may be of interest. Especially since the need for a lawyer here is really profound.

  7. Volunteer with EFF by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I bet they have all sorts of odd research and writing they could use help.

    --
    Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
    1. Re:Volunteer with EFF by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1, Informative

      I've volunteered with the EFF doing exactly that.

      Some of the research is rigorous and time-consuming, for example, I had to examine a diagram which mandated the use of a bix nood mated to a gollywog. I believe that gig involved a patent-trolling firm called Moon Cricket, which manufactured ultrasonic insect repellant devices.

      However, their patent was overly broad and they were going after manufacturers of certain peripherals.

    2. Re:Volunteer with EFF by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 1

      Hey, Ethanol-fueled, how do I volunteer with the EFF? I only see volunteering options for technologists and general volunteers on their page.

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    3. Re:Volunteer with EFF by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you have a background in law then you may be able to get an internship.

      Also note that the volunteer rules are general guidelines and not all that strict in actuality. The EFF need all the help they can get, so contact Bernie Robinson(brobinson@eff.org) and give him a brief description of your background. They throw great parties after headways are made in cases.

      Note that, unfortunately, internships are unpaid and cannot furnish J visas.

    4. Re:Volunteer with EFF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who the fuck modded this informative? Google the terms "bix nood" "gollywog" and "moon cricket". This is an obvious troll.

    5. Re:Volunteer with EFF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm

    6. Re:Volunteer with EFF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or he's anonymising the details of the specific instance - anyone with a background in law would pretty much do that out of habit.

  8. Re:kill all the lawyers by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 1

    You first. I'm sure there'll be somebody to defend you.

    --
    My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
  9. Private Practice by applematt84 · · Score: 1

    One thing that I wish I did was go through law school so I could litigate Internet-based rights. For example, a recent story on /. covered a case that went to trial that was basically about freedom of speech. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/29/1929228/Court-Rules-Website-Doesnt-Have-To-Remove-Defamatory-Comments If I were in your friends' shoes, I would open a private practice and tailor it to the needs of those who need their rights protected online. You should also suggest that your friend checkout the YRO section on /. or even groklaw.net ... these pages should give your friend an idea or two on how to get involved by reading about what's happening.

    1. Re:Private Practice by vux984 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually no, that case covered a fairly straightforward legal technicality.

      The plaintiff obtained an injunction against an individual independant website-poster and then tried to use it to compel the 3rd party website-host to comply. The website-host argued that the injunction didn't compel him to act because it was against the poster, and the court agreed.

      The plaintiff needs to compel the original poster to act (so far the poster has not responded), or seek an injunction against the website host. All the court ruled here was the technical point that they can't use an injunction against party A vs party B.

      An analogy would be if the police had a warrant to search your house, but when they got there and didn't find what they were looking they figured you'd moved the object of their search into a storage locker you were renting. You weren't around so they knocked on the storage companies doors asking to search the locker, showing you the warrant. And they turned around and said, "um no, this warrant doesn't have anything to do with us." And the court would agree... suggesting they get an appropriate warrant to actually do what they want to do.

      Even if the police have absolute proof that the object they are looking for is in that locker, the warrant they have is the wrong tool to get it. And that's exactly what's happened here. "Free speech" as it turns out is just in the background to the case.

    2. Re:Private Practice by applematt84 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for educating me on this. My apologies for my earlier ignorance. Cheers! :)

  10. get reeducated by zugedneb · · Score: 2

    as carpenter, railroad worker, builder, engeneer, pilot...

    generally, the less we have of people who mind others businness the better we fare...

    1. Re:get reeducated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I work at a law firm (IT support), most of them.... some of... there a few.. there's a couple that ain't half bad.

    2. Re:get reeducated by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      "Look at me, I'm better than you, I can do 5 things poorly!"

      Let me guess, you'd prefer a country without Rule of Law, like Somalia?

      Or you just don't like the laws, and blame the wrong people?

      Or you just want to blame the people that would do good with a law degree, because some other person with one did bad?

      Lots of bad carpenters out there, shouldn't blame you for it though. I dunno what an engeneer is though, so I can't if they have bad ones.

    3. Re:get reeducated by zugedneb · · Score: 1

      you must be an idiot...

      what strikes me with the western societies is the LACK of law... when I read about cases, or discuss with people about cases, I do not get the sensetion that I can predict the reaction to a certain action... most becomes tale of wierd psychology...

      let me tell you about two cases:
      1 - a woman at SEB (a swedish bank) gambled with some of the banks mony... this fact leaked, and she was sued, mostly because the leak. according to the judge, a mitigating circumstance was that at the bank there was prestige in making lots of mony in wierd business practice... what the fuck is this? is this the law?

      2 - a friend was working at a private psychiatric clinic, officially with noncriminal people... now, the clinics owners got greedy, and since they got mony according to a patients "wight", the choose to take in more and more difficult people... one night, my friend calls me frightened and sad, in need of comfort, and tells me about one of the patients, this time a criminal one, with new identity...

      you can fuck yourself and your fucking law, come back to me when an action has a predictable reaction...

  11. If he wants to help by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    tell him to throw himself off a bridge or something. I know he means well, but lawyers are a major part of the problem this litigious society has. Whichever side they're on, in the end they're usually not helping anybody but their own greedy profiteering selves.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:If he wants to help by soupdevil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At its ideal best, the US is a society of ideas, and those ideas are expressed in laws. Previously, societies were based on ethnicity, race, religion or military prowess. In a society of ideas, disputes should not be decided by guns, or by priests. Who else, then? If we got rid of the lawyers we would need to replace them with something quite similar.

    2. Re:If he wants to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      The opinions expressed in this thread are solely those of the visitors who posted them, and are not necessarily shared by Slashdot.org, its editors, moderators, or service providers, nor by Geeknet, Inc. (NASDAQ:GKNT), its management, employees, directors, or shareholders. Slashdot is a trademark of Geeknet, Inc.

      (This needs help.)

    3. Re:If he wants to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now it's decided by money and how many politicians/judges/regulators you've bought off. It's really not all that much better.

    4. Re:If he wants to help by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      tell him to throw himself off a bridge or something. I know he means well, but lawyers are a major part of the problem this litigious society has.

      Civil Rights.
      Worker Safety.
      Environmental Protection.
      Food Safety.
      Freedom of Speech.
      Miranda Warnings.

      Fucking lawyers. Always part of the problem.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    5. Re:If he wants to help by seebs · · Score: 2

      That is a line of utter bullshit, and I say that even granting that we're already talking about the typical cesspit of Slashdot comments.

      The bad guys are gonna have legal representation. If all the good guys decide that being a lawyer is a bad profession, then only the bad guys are gonna have legal representation, making things a lot worse.

      You might as well argue that people who want to program should throw themselves off of bridges, on the grounds that it's programmers that make botnets. Your comment that "in the end they're usually not helping anybody but their own greedy profiteering selves" is, to put it mildly, pulled out of your ass. I know some lawyers. One's a good drinking buddy. I know many people who have had lawyers represent them in a number of ways. Of all of those cases, there's exactly one where I'd say that the lawyers were only helping themselves, and if the psycho bitch in question hadn't been psycho, she wouldn't have picked those lawyers.

      Generalizing from the sorts of stories that make the news is really, really, stupid. Your view of lawyers is about as informed as Jack Thompson's view of video gamers.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    6. Re:If he wants to help by MichaelKristopeit348 · · Score: 0
      who is "we"?

      you are NOTHING.

      cower behind your chosen pseudonym some more, feeb.

      you're completely pathetic.

    7. Re:If he wants to help by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Oh, go fuck yourself.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    8. Re:If he wants to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Civil Rights.
      Worker Safety.
      Environmental Protection.
      Food Safety.
      Freedom of Speech.
      Miranda Warnings.

      And africanized honey bees make honey too but you wouldn't want them in your neighborhood.

    9. Re:If he wants to help by psxndc · · Score: 2

      As a software-engineer-turned-patent-lawyer, who rarely visits /. anymore because of all the blind lawyer hate and weeping and gnashing of teeth, thank you. Seriously.

      --

      The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.

    10. Re:If he wants to help by seebs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No problem. I just get sick of seeing people bashing lawyers without ever having met one.

      I know a guy. I refer to him as "my lawyer". He helped me take a bunch of junk faxers to court, as a result of which, I was able to give about $50k or so to random poor people I knew -- you know, stuff like that one month's rent that makes the difference between staying in your place until your new job starts paying or being out on the street and jobless. I've watched him put in insanely long hours helping poor people get the help they need to get away from scumbag debt collectors, advising trannies on how to get their name changes, stuff like that. I've seen him walk away from large amounts of money if he didn't think the job was ethical. And I've seen the six foot Clash poster in his office.

      I also know someone who did Family Practice, which is the most nightmarish job in the world. Hello, welcome to a fight between people who were married for ten years. You are the only person in this room who gives a flying fuck what happens to this kid. Your job is to, without actually telling your client to grow the fuck up, cause your client to stop and think whether she actually wants the kids, or just wants to hurt her soon-to-be ex-husband.

      It's like mechanics, really. Yeah, everyone's had a run-in with some guy who will just make shit up to charge you hundreds of bucks. But most of us have eventually found the guy who'll fix stuff for free if he can just reach in and do it, spend two hours on the phone tracking down a replacement part that's no longer made, and tell you "you'll need to replace these, but you've got another six months, easy." Blaming all mechanics for the stereotyped bad ones is just sloppy thinking.

      It bugs me to see people who think they're super smart and all good with logic and reasoning, and then the moment you hand 'em a stereotype they just run with it. WTF guys.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    11. Re:If he wants to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't blame the lawyers, but blame the citizens who elect crookish lawyers as politicians. These guys create the law with loopholes for their contributors and thus end up you needing a lawyer to milk all of us. Neither the laws are clear nor the punishment.

    12. Re:If he wants to help by Lincolnshire+Poacher · · Score: 1

      I have no doubt that there are many lawyers who are good and kind people.

      However the problem is not with individuals, but law as a profession.

      First, that lawyers conduct the application of law is in an adversarial arena; one party winning over the other through persuasion and charisma. This is probably distasteful to geeks who believe that pure logic should carry the argument, not who "has the better lawyer".

      Second, lawyers serve to perpetuate their own kind. Laws are written to be as obfuscated and inaccessible as possible to the layman, so that the scenario above is usually the only recourse. In contrast to your engineer, who will tell you how to perform minor maintenance yourself, did your lawyer tell you how to sue fax spammers on your own in the future?

    13. Re:If he wants to help by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      Miranda Warnings

      River was a lawyer?

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    14. Re:If he wants to help by Transaction7 · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Well said. I am a retired lawyer who has seen it all. Unfortunately, there are lawyers, judges, and legally-trained other elected officials palmed off on us by both parties, etc., who, like some of the auto mechanics, bankers, computer people, plumbers, and doctors, etc. I know, I know well enough that I would not trust them.

    15. Re:If he wants to help by seebs · · Score: 1

      Of course. My lawyer has actively encouraged me to understand the law, to understand the technical language used and the reasons for which the technical language exists, and to be able to go handle my own cases when I want to. When I sued MSI for trying to stiff me on a rebate, I didn't have to have my lawyer do it, I just did it myself, because I knew how.

      I'm not particularly opposed to the adversarial model of law. It may not be ideal, but I've never seen a credible alternative proposed. I would also point out that "persuasion and charisma" don't necessarily trump logic, reasoning, and evidence. They may have influence, but it's not at all obvious that they automatically win when the evidence is against you.

      Your presumption of bad intent in the writing of laws doesn't seem to be particularly supported by evidence. There are sound technical reasons for jargon in any field, because it allows people to streamline communications and write things that are much clearer if you're willing to put in the time to learn that jargon.

      Law as a profession is not the problem, and telling lawyers to kill themselves wouldn't fix it if it were.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    16. Re:If he wants to help by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      Lawyers aren't the problem, they're a symptom of a litigious society. If they didn't exist, someone else would take their place - they're the mercenaries of the 21st century. Note that plenty of countries have lawyers who don't go around suing everyone and everything.

      DISCLAIMER: I'm a engineer/law student.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
    17. Re:If he wants to help by psxndc · · Score: 1

      n contrast to your engineer, who will tell you how to perform minor maintenance yourself, did your lawyer tell you how to sue fax spammers on your own in the future?

      With all due respect, this is bunk. Most software companies sell maintenance contracts and do not tell you how to "fix it yourself." On the other hand, I routinely instruct my clients on how the law works and help them help themselves because it helps me be a better lawyer. A) It ensures that I know what I'm talking about first and B) it makes future conversations with them easier because I'm not reeducating them every time. My main client contact probably could forgo my services at this point. And no, I am not a "ra ra open source and EFF are great - I will work for pennies" attorney - I'm one of the "evil" attorneys that work for big corporations that everyone around here hates. But I also don't fit the stereotype because, believe it or not, the stereotype is really inapplicable to most lawyers.

      What most engineers don't seem to appreciate that while they see things in very binary terms, i.e., right and wrong or true and false, what they fail to appreciate is that another engineer will disagree with them on what is what. Lawyers, on the other hand, have to deal almost exclusively with shades of grey. That's why many people despise Obama and John Kerry - because those guys are always hedging and looking for the nuanced answer, when, to a lot of people, it's black and white.

      OK, tangent over.

      --

      The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.

    18. Re:If he wants to help by alexo · · Score: 1

      Fucking lawyers. Always part of the problem.

      Yes, they are.
      They perpetuate a "you get what you pay for" (in)justice system.

  12. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by bhcompy · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't the US be open source government since all of the laws, regulations, and charters for government be openly available? That is essentially "the code".

  13. open street map by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The open street map project is currently planning to change their license from the established CC-by-SA (GPL-like), to something new and untested called the ODbL (LGPL-like).

    IANAL but I play one on the internet and I've read the thing, and both it and the new contributer agreement are a mess. A terrible mess. Apparently it's been looked at by a real lawyer, but I still see much sloppiness which translates to loop holes many an evil company could drive trucks through.

    Task: review the two documents pro-bono and post analysis & suggestions for improvement to the osm-talk list before it's too late! Time is short and I'd hate to see a good project destroy itself.

  14. I do various bits and pieces by Neil_Brown · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are a number of us who happily chip into gpl-violations.org - hopefully, it sometimes leads to resolutions of GPL-based legal issues, but fascinating for discussion too.

    Education: I enjoy talking / lecturing about issues related to open source / Free software, problems I perceive with copyright, issues around the commons and the public domain etc. - education activities, helping both lawyers and interested members of the general public. I also like writing about open source topics, from a legal point of view - dispelling FUD, or highlighting areas of actual risk, can be beneficial. Even contributing to your local LUG might be helpful.

    Contributing to project documentation - perhaps not strictly legal-related, but, as a lawyer, I hope I can communicate clearly. Since documentation is often considered secondary to code in open source projects, yet is important, I felt I could contribute.

    Pro bono work - very occasionally, a pro bono project comes up which needs open source advice, and I'll happily take on those. If you have a local pro bono centre, which has a wider remit than housing / family / private client issues, then, you might be able to register there and offer guidance. I would not hold out any hope of it being a regular source of projects, but perhaps worth a try.

    1. Re:I do various bits and pieces by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      as a lawyer, I hope I can communicate clearly.

      My head just asploded.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:I do various bits and pieces by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Well, precision is what's most prized, but it often comes at the cost of simple, concise writing. It's pretty difficult to manage all three.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  15. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by pjt33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Good luck making a fork.

  16. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It is open in that it is readable, but it does not have other characteristics of FOSS: namely, it is pretty darn difficult for a random person with a good idea to contribute code and have it committed to the trunk. Try it some time. :)

  17. help groklaw by mrflash818 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I am sure PJ would appreciate the help.

    --
    Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
    1. Re:help groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second that. :)

    2. Re:help groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading through the archives at groklaw should give him some ideas about what help is needed in the oss world. In fact, here is a recent post that is right on topic:

      http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101228003140376

    3. Re:help groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just for the record, PJ is *awesome*.
      V 3 PJ

  18. Volunteer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your friend, if he's really interested, could contact the FSF or EFF or OSI and offer his services. I'm sure such groups could always use an extra lawyer.

  19. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by kabrakan · · Score: 1

    My organization (which publishes OSS) is doing the same thing, and is using a law student to help coalesce the group into a formal entity (of which there are many types each with their own pros and cons). I'm sure there are many organizations in the same condition, and having someone do the (arduous) research to formalize the entity will help in procuring grants and other sources of funding that aren't available to informal entities.

    --
    Slartibartfast:"Is that your robot?"
    Marvin:"No, I'm mine."
  20. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think anyone would mind if you branched the 'code', so long as you don't steal the tools/resources required to compile/execute.

  21. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by bhcompy · · Score: 1

    States that have the initiative/proposition process fit that mold. Still must be approved, but any random joe can write up a bill and submit it as long as it gets enough votes.

  22. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The project which advocates open source governance has been trying over the years to coalesce into a formal organization, but desperately needs a lawyer to figure out how. A normal non-profit can just put together a board of directors and organize in their home country. But Metagovernment has two huge problems with this: first, they cannot/will-not be controlled by a small group of empowered individuals (completely goes against their core principles), and second they are explicitly not aligned with any nation or national interest. See their page on the issue: http://www.metagovernment.org/wiki/Startup/Organization

    No, it is not open source software, but seeing as open source governance is derived from the principles of free and open source software, I thought it may be of interest. Especially since the need for a lawyer here is really profound.

    You're looking for "bearer bonds" they are obnoxious because they are taxed every time the change hands, but that's not a huge issue. Im afraid to say your second problem isnt so easy to resolve by any means other than moving the goal posts. The Corporate charter is a government subsidy. It's legitimacy is only as strong as the nation who issued it recognizes it(like fiat currency). You should either proceed as true revolutionaries undetterred by recognition and forget the corporate charter & begin issuing your own crypto signed dgc bearer bonds. Or you should suck it up and go with government corporate charter. Honestly, the project is meaningless without the maturity to do the former imho. You might as well use the proceeds from your IPO to stockpile dgc and bitcoins to back your bonds. In the corporate world, its not the color of your government paper but the size of your warchest which determines the victor. Might makes right, and lawers are the modern day gun slingers. Public relations and jury nulification are cheaper forms of jury tampering than hiring a silver tongue imho.

  23. One thing only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Kill himself

  24. specifics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A few things can be done simply by being a lawyer at all.
    - Recruiting other lawyers, including IP folks, at bar association and other lawyer-only events. Not to mention posting ads in bar association newsletters and hosting events at bar association buildings and finding and encouraging relevant CLE events.

    - Writing readily available and current guides to open source for the rest of us, especially the differences between the GPL and other licenses. A good chart of those differences would be golden. Again, especially if kept current AND READILY FINDABLE INLINE. not just in theory, but in case law and in terms of the corporate and institutional moves that could be learned just fine by spending enough time following links from right here on /. and following up on things like Westlaw.
    Even not being an IP lawyer, (s)he's still better equipped than most, if only from access to Lexis-Nexis, to build an educated view of what the issues are, for example how companies can use open source and still stay in compliance both with those terms and confidentiality requirements of contractors. Or what code can pass on in commercial products that then use that open source code, etc.

    - This isn't open source as such, but there's also a real need for more guides to fair use in general. I've looked high and low and nobody seems to keep a current site about what can and can't legally be photographed, for example. I *do* know that lots of the regulations about taking pictures of private facilities, for example, are bullshit. As in in conflict with the law. But try explaining that without cases and regulation, right down to number, on paper right there when some goon is sent out to grab your camera because you were taking pictures through the chain link fence.
    Same for the ever-changing limits of TSA-controlled areas. When a woman can be kept from flying for "unusual contours of the buttocks" and supposedly have no legal recourse, well, looks like we could use some help there to me. Same goes for sampling music or the many related fields. And again, actual case citations and regulations listed by number and category.

    Just being able to "presort" is of value, if only to help people in trouble find an IP lawyer who can finish the job. The EFF is great but they ain't everybody, esp. since it can help to have a local lawyer for some things.

    - Another possibility is to get involved in helping open-source related organizations get legal standing as non-profits and fund and charter endowments. There are plenty of open source projects that could qualify as non-profits and when I talk to them about it they look vaguely interested but they have neither the skills nor the understanding of how it could help them out to actually get it done. Endowments? Don't get me started. For example, New York's ABC No Rio computer center has hosted many events and teach-ins that help open source and they're always short of help of many kinds. Same for many Free Skools. There are at least fifty infoshops in this country that could do the same IF they were more stable and somebody did the work of getting the right people together in the right place on a repeating basis. Lawyer as yenta is a role that goes back centuries. It's not what people think of as a lawyer's role but it works. Especially since most lawyers can quietly and unobtrusively slip in the twenty bucks now and again that can (absurdly enough) be what stands between a project getting moving and five more fucking meetings over the course of a year to "achieve consensus".

    Ya see, a lot of this is about culture. Ask Autumn Wiggins about the work she's doing right now to bring open source tools to the crafting world. Or all of us who simply never took R.M. Stallman as seriously as we could have because, well, he doesn't listen, doesn't move beyond his circles and, at least in my day, didn't bathe. And lawyers are, in their very different way, trained as hackers. As masters of social engineering. Of getting institutions to do what they want through the

  25. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would you or that law student be so kind as to post even a brief summary of your findings to the Metagovernment list server. Or if that is too much trouble, perhaps to the relevant page on the wiki. Or failing either of those, maybe here?

    Thanks!

  26. Odd by ZonkerWilliam · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't a lawyer already have the resources to find any area of law he want to practice in? Like most professionals those guys should have good network of people. Why sink to asking people who typically aren't in the area of law?

    1. Re:Odd by seebs · · Score: 1

      Most professionals don't start out with a good network of people. Looking for ideas that other people have is as good a way as any to start, and possibly a better one if you want to think outside the box a bit.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    2. Re:Odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IAAL and sometimes it's not readily apparent in non-traditional legal fields exactly 'what' needs legal help.

    3. Re:Odd by ZonkerWilliam · · Score: 1

      Most professionals don't start out with a good network of people.

      I would beg to differ, when I graduated EE I had already had an established network, mostly people who were working in the field.

  27. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just made a fork of the code right now.
    It runs fine, but with only one citizen(me) in the execution environment I can see a lot of rules that never fire.

    Perhaps I shouldn't call it an execution environment.

  28. Pursue GPL violations in China by lkcl · · Score: 1

    There is one area where prosecuting GPL violations is, at present, completely ineffective, and it's across the non-PRC / PRC international barrier. As I understand it, the rules are that it is necessary to either be a Chinese National or have a Chinese Company in order to prosecute Copyright Violation. However, i have heard that there is a Law Firm in Bristol who manage to successfully prosecute Copyright and other violations in China.

    It would be extremely useful for someone to help the Software Freedom Law Centre to be able to successfully pursue GPL Copyright Violations against Chinese Factories. Not least is, as Neil mentions, the fact that it would simply be useful to help out AT ALL with the sheer overwhelming number of GPL violations cases. The busybox Copyright holders alone have a list which as of last month was well over 300 separate cases which they have to actively double-check and then pursue.

    1. Re:Pursue GPL violations in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you didn't register the copyright in China, good luck prosecuting it. Same deal with Patents...

  29. Volunteer for the Software Freedom Law Center by Khopesh · · Score: 1

    Even if you're not eligible for joining their team as a lawyer (which isn't necessarily a given), you can still volunteer or at least network with them.

    http://www.softwarefreedom.org/

    --
    Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
  30. Help a LII by grcumb · · Score: 1

    There are dozens of organisations around the world who use the Internet to ensure Free Access to Law (Google '+LII +"Montreal Declaration"' for more about the movement). Many of these Legal Information Institutes require the assistance of legal experts in selecting, vetting and editing their online materials. There are new ones starting up right now in Western Africa, for example.

    Access to online legal materials is a fundamentally important way to ensure rule of law and to help level the playing field between the state, established interests and the little guy. In my region, it's been extremely effective in helping people to understand the ways the laws are written (i.e. the way things should be) and to compare them to the way things actually are. It's not a panacea, but it's a pretty important tool in helping people protect their rights, both online and in meatspace.

    If your friend is interested, have him contact the Cornell School of Law for details. Alternatively, he can contact me through my website.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  31. Free Software, please by lkcl · · Score: 1

    sorry i didn't notice that the question was "what can i do for open source" and the first thing your friend can do is read rms essays on why that should be "free software" (more accurately "software libre" in french). the difference really does matter: anyone - even microsoft - can claim that "access to source code is open" (for $USD 1m, and if you use it in any projects or products, then they will sue the f88* out of you. but it's STILL an "open source" license, because the source code is "open", right?)

    1. Re:Free Software, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the first thing you should do is completely turn his friend off by having to be brow-beaten by a zealot.

  32. Why not join NYCL? by cpghost · · Score: 1

    Maybe getting in touch with our fellow slashdotter NewYorkCountryLawyer (Ray Beckerman) could be a good idea?

    --
    cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  33. Help RunwayFinder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He can volunteer to help RunwayFinder.com

    This was a great flight-planning tool, until patent-troll FlightPrep threatened to sue for over $3M. The allegedly infringed-upon patent? -- linking maps together (yes, like Google maps).

    RunwayFinder's owner has considered open-sourcing his site, but now he has other more important things on his mind...(like not losing everything he owns to this lawsuit....)

  34. Pitch in with PJ? by Dammital · · Score: 3, Informative

    Groklaw does a lot of good, too.

    1. Re:Pitch in with PJ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Groklaw does a lot of bad, too.

  35. Odds and ends by phorm · · Score: 1

    Wow. What projects couldn't use a lawyer. Liability, patents, license (GPL etc) violations, legal documentation, etc etc.

    I could think of plenty of FOSS that probably could use a bit of legal assistance. Heck, how about offering a cheap legal advice session - or maybe a free seminar - every now and then, for up-and-coming programmers on FOSS projects?

  36. Electronic Frontier Foundation by spazdor · · Score: 1

    The EFF provides all sorts of legal services to deserving projects. I thing volunteering tor them would be a fantastic use of time.

    --
    DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
  37. GPL Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Create viral a form to make a patent viral, like GPL.
    Your company uses the patent, then your patents cant be enforced against free (or any) software.

  38. How about open business contracts by holophrastic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a programmer/developer, I'm used to libraries of code and snippets, and cross-integrating and documentation. But when it comes time for me to write contracts for projects with clients and such, I get to start from scratch, every time. GPL and the like exist for code use, but that's not business related.

    I've always wanted the equivalent of GPL for business. Where I can have a contract between my business and my client that also has a 3 to 5 character letterism common enough to be familiar to non-computer-oriented clients. It would really solve the whole negotiating a contract challenge of any large project.

    I imagine a set for each industry (software, grocery, marketing, etc), a subset for each type of project (software, service, product, etc), a subset for each bias (favouring the client, favouring the provider, mutually neutral, etc), a few peripheral features (royalties, bonuses, minimums, etc), et cetera.

    It's not open-source-computer-code, it's open-source-legal-contracts.

    The big advantage being that parties using such contracts don't need to read everything thoroughly for eight weeks with their lawyers, because those lawyers would quickly become familiar with these things, and these things would be backed by the international association for open legal contracts -- or perhaps one with a more legible letterism.

    1. Re:How about open business contracts by ZekeV · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sounds a lot like a project I'm currently developing with a group of lawyers -- a curated contract forms library based on open source principles. https://sites.google.com/site/opensourcelawproject/ We could definitely use additional input from people with a hacker's perspective.

    2. Re:How about open business contracts by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      I'd love to assist, but I'm not able to access google services.

      Is there another way for me to contribute?

    3. Re:How about open business contracts by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      It would really solve the whole negotiating a contract challenge of any large project.

      While it's a neat-o concept, my opinion as a lawyer who has worked in software/copyright licenses before, having a "GPL" for "large [business] projects" is most likely a spectacularly terrible idea.

      Well, as a lawyer, I'd love to be asked to work on any litigation arising out of such a deal, as I would make a mint off the years of subsequent court battles. With large projects, you ought to draft a new contract every time because the needs of the parties are just plain going to be different every time. If not, then the project is probably not as large as you think it is. Or maybe our definitions of "large" are not the same.

      Bear in mind the GPL, for example, is the product of years of discussions between academics, lawyers, and programmers, and it still has had to be updated twice because of loopholes.

    4. Re:How about open business contracts by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      And that's just it. I'd want the contracts to undergo the same level of debugging that code would undergo -- you would make a mint off of subsequent court battles. But eventually, over the course of many years, those battles would act as very strong precendent -- same contract, same battle, same outcome.

      You'd then make a mint off of recommending the right combination of contract clauses. It'd take you very little time, very little effort, and you'd have something that no other scenario affords -- the ability to guarantee an outcome to a specific scenario, because it'd have happened.

      I don't mean large as in multi-million dollar deals. I mean large as in thirty pages for a $50'000.00 piece of custom software.

      Every contract's the same for these, and I have to write it and negotiate it from scratch every time because the lawyer on the other side wants to "do their job".

      1. what's being paid, and how much
      2. how changes will be communicated -- and the correct fax number.
      3. the same stupid liability carp that says they can't use their web-site's calendar to control nuclear warfare or aircraft control.
      4. things won't be sub-sub-subcontracted -- except as necessary.
      5. I'm an expert in my field, and have the tools to do the job
      6. no fewer than three ways out for each party, and what happens to the moneys at the time.
      7. the client doesn't own programming code in general.
      8. the client can use the software as much as they want, but only in three ways and from two places.
      9. the client has to talk to me, and late deliverables means late results.
      10. things won't be late, or we can all quit -- but we won't.
      11. riots, and the banks being closed are justification to delay payment.

        blah blah blah.

      The list just keeps going on, and none of it mentions anything that differentiates the tenth project with the second client from the seventeenth project with the twentieth client.

      Oh, and my favourite, the "invulnerability" clauses. Indemnifying in each direction, as though their gym software's invoicing of $60 at a time can ever be off by enough to warrant the cap of being limited to the total amount paid for services, or that the damage done by the software bug that bricks the $25'000 electronic fitness equipment when uploading a trainer's personal workout schedule into the television on the treadmill would ever be covered by the $1'350 development cost of the feature.

      Legal contracts in general are designed for the multi-million dollar, seven levels of employment companies to protect disparate sides of a company from the actions of distant sides.

      Unfortunately, my small business clients have big-business lawyers doing them favours, and insist on equivalent protection between two owners of two small businesses from unlikely concerns that a judge would simply decide in ten minutes, one way or the other.

    5. Re:How about open business contracts by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      You'd then make a mint off of recommending the right combination of contract clauses.

      There is already boilerplate out there. You can buy a book like http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Software-Licensing-Licensees-Licensors/dp/1604420901/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293905895&sr=8-1 and run with it. It comes with forms you can use. In fact, this is what most lawyers do, even at the biggest law firms in the world. They go with language that has been litigated in court already, and change a bit to glue the clauses together. This is not really as easy as it sounds. Just like how an engineer can design a bridge, but modifications likely need to be made based on the soil, perhaps the saline content in the air, etc. Hell, if you're a programmer, you already know that programming once and deploying across Windows, OSX, and Linux is not even that easy. Want Python and curses? Well, give up your aspirations with Windows! When I was in undergrad in 2002, it was well known that Java's goal of cross-platformality (??) exceeded its reach. Why would the law be any different?

      But good cut and paste cannot happen. There is too much interplay between language, structure, and clauses. You can make a decent contract, but you'd still need someone to look over the combination of clauses you made. It might be cheaper, but I just don't think you can have a "click the exes in the HTML form and get a great contract spat out."

      If I were a business owner, I wouldn't risk a $30K contract if I could pay someone $1-2K to draft a K for me (I could). You won't find a big law firm that is that cheap. I had a software licenses professor in law school, and he told us point blank that there are probably only five or six software licenses lawyers in the US that are really any good (they all work for big shops and firms like Fish & Richardson and probably Knobbe). I'm inclined to agree that there are very few, but "five or six" is probably off by an order of magnitude. My experience working for a federal judge supports the assertion that most lawyers are not all that good at what they do. But then, most lawyers are inexpensive.

      This is my just my opinion, though. And I don't expect to end up practicing software license law for a living, so I'm not trying to protect my livelihood here. I'm expressing my legitimate concern that such a goal is untenable. Get a form book like the one above if you want to save money. There are other books that take you line by line and explain how to change text.

      But keep in mind that if you screw up you have no one to sue for malpractice!

      Actually, I take everything above back after reading a bit more about your situation. You could do it if there were no negotiation between the two parties, but you just gave a client a contract and said, "Take it or leave it." Alternatively, next time, don't use a lawyer. Have the contract be a "work for hire" and keep the copyright for the contract yourself. Then just change it to fit your needs.

      But yeah, again, no one to sue for malpractice if you do that and something screws up.

    6. Re:How about open business contracts by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      That's the other side. Boilerplate is one-way, I want two-way. I want the lawyer on the other side to say "oh yeah, OBC v6, internet software v8, with clauses 72 and 64, yeah it's fine".

      You can't get that with boilerplate, because they aren't standard, well known, and tested.

      The issue is always the same. After a few months of communication back and forth, and a few thousand dollars on each side, the actual project has yet to begin.

      So after spending 10% on the contract, the project may never actually go ahead. Which means that it's not worth having a contract unless at least one in ten result in the contract being used for something -- which is in no way the average.

      So it's not worth anything to me -- nor to my client. Except that they have lawyer frineds who insist on a contract, and refuse to write one.

    7. Re:How about open business contracts by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      You can't get that with boilerplate, because they aren't standard, well known, and tested.

      No, it's pretty much definitional. "Boilerplate" is standard language everyone uses. It's practically guaranteed that it has become boilerplate because it is standard, well-known, and tested in court.

      See if your local bar association provides free Westlaw access in their offices. If they do, you should know you can find a lot of good contract language on Westlaw that has been tested. I think they even have a forms database that is fully searchable. I'm not sure how much would be relevant, but you could check.

    8. Re:How about open business contracts by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      Also, if you live near an area with a law school, many have law schools with great libraries that stock form books.

    9. Re:How about open business contracts by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      Honestly, none of that sounds any easier than just writing one of my own from scratch. I type quickly.

      I'd just love to find a method that has the other side's lawyer able to accept the entire contract within an hour.

    10. Re:How about open business contracts by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      I'd just love to find a method that has the other side's lawyer able to accept the entire contract within an hour.

      You're never going to find a competent lawyer willing to approve a $30K contract in an hour. I think that fact alone would likely be grounds for a finding of malpractice if the contract ended up screwing over his client.

      This scenario would really play out in under an hour if the other client forewent (what is the past tense of "forego"?) legal representation itself.

      But yeah, I hear you. My professional interest as an attorney is in things being more complicated, so that I have more work. But my personal interest as a human being is in all things being easily done right.

    11. Re:How about open business contracts by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      Really? If you were presented with a contract certified by the International Open Business Contract Association of Earth, having downloaded it from them directly, and run it through your office's validation tool, each of which says it's version 6.3 of the standard internet software application small business contract level 4e, with optional clauses 6f and 9d, and a three-word change to section 7.1 which now allows for the destruction of confidential materials in place of their safe return...

      You've read every clause before, as has everyone in your industry -- you see, it's the first year of legal education, you don't get into custom work until the second year of pre-law.

      You look over the three-word change, to ensure that it doesn't step on any other part of the contract -- which you basically know by heart.

      You consult your seventeen-volume reference detailing any weird things about the optional clauses, and how they do or don't change things -- but really, it's not difficult stuff.

      Every year, on December 31st -- the annual "it's still the law" day -- a random ten of these open contracts are tried in moot court for fun and to see how they hold up to any new laws of the land. So you look up the last time this particular version was tested.

      You write a two-page report for your client, summarizing the decisions they've made by including the optional clauses, and how the base version itself was meant to be used, along with your personal list of things that the client can expect in terms of protection provided by the contract, and you suggest they don't make the three-word change -- it looks fine as-is, but by the IOBCAoE, it has to be highlighted in red as a custom modification, which actually requires the other party's counsel to charge for an additional hour, whether or not it takes even one second to read -- IOBCAoE rules.

      Your liability is shared with the IOBCAoE, in that for as long as you responsibly detail your report for your client, the IOBCAoE limits your risk to something reasonable -- lower than it would typically be had you written the contract yourself.

      As a result, small business enjoys your services far more often, with a much larger market.

      Certainly big business is never going to go for anything less than fully custom, but for big business the legal stuff is a part of the business. For small business, it's a necessary evil.

      As much as I enjoy the counsel and guidance of the lawyers that I use today, they don't make their fortunes from my $5'000 annually. They help me out in the hope that one day I become big business -- their client list runs the traditional 80%/10%/5%/5% risk/reward gammut.

      In the end, everyone knows that the contracts I sign are virtually useless. Short of my being malicious, if I try, and I fail miserably, the contract is easily discarded by going bankrupt. My other clients don't care what my small business's name is, and the business is too small and too successful to depend on bank loans.

      Incidentally, that's generally how I convince my clients to stop short of lengthier contracts.

      It doesn't work when big business contracts small business though -- where I simply have to continually remind the opposing counsel that I simply don't have the resources to guarantee larger sorts of things, and that no I don't carry millions of dollars of business insurance for your $10'000 web-site registration form. Deal with it.

  39. riiiiight by Cyko_01 · · Score: 1

    your "friend". I think we all know who the real lawyer is here :D

  40. Just more restrictive. by dakameleon · · Score: 1

    It's a high-impact project, so it has some extra controls - to get write access to the repository, you have to be a special class of user called a "Congressman", and all code commits must be approved by a committee called "the Senate", and ultimately the final approval is vested in the super-user known as "the President". The people using your code get to determine if you keep write access every so often.

    --
    Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    1. Re:Just more restrictive. by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      That's one of the best descriptions of congress that I've ever heard.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    2. Re:Just more restrictive. by Teancum · · Score: 2

      This is one reason why I think geeks should get more involved in politics as anybody who can fight through the bureaucracy of a typical open source project to commit code to the main branch of a project more than has the skills to be able to do the same thing to legislation.

      If anything, getting legislation changed is much easier because most people are apathetic about what happens in their government and the people who are in charge of writing legislation (or have "write access" as you suggest here) are usually not all that intelligent. The ability to sell yourself to a lobbyist to get a pile of money isn't too difficult but does require some "social networking connections" that unfortunately a typical geek lacks.

      The trick is to become the activist that becomes a pain in the behind to the lobbyist, where they might just become interested in what you are doing and support your cause... at least if you can deliver votes. That isn't really social networking but simply staying busy and simply convincing people to show up to the voting booth in the first place.

  41. Re:451 by Bucky24 · · Score: 1, Informative

    Don't feed the troll... c'mon now.

    --
    All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
  42. MOD PARENT UP by jimmyswimmy · · Score: 0

    Never posted one of these before but it is the most insightful comment in the thread and deserves to be seen.

    --

    Just my $0.55 (US inflation, 1774-2008, for $0.02)
  43. Re:451 by TheRaven64 · · Score: 0

    Or, if you must feed a troll, feed a creative one, not a rambling lunatic who keeps posting the same dull observation.

    Michael Kristopelt = stagnated.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  44. I got an idea for your lawyer friend by swschrad · · Score: 1

    sic Ellison of Oracle and Darl McBride of Hell on each other.

    open source, and mankind, can only benefit with those two alleycats tied tail to tail and tossed over a high-tension power line, to shred each other.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  45. already I must apologize by swschrad · · Score: 1

    must apologize to both alleycats and Hell for the associations above.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  46. Ethically unacceptable; so sue me already by strangedays · · Score: 1

    I have a friend who was all set to become an IP lawyer, but then they found out her parents were married.
    I was shopping in New York last week, it was so cold I saw a lawyer with her hands in her own pockets.

    --
    There is no god; get over it already! Never exchange a walk on part in the war, for a lead role in a cage.
  47. Help EFF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:Help EFF by fishexe · · Score: 1

      EFF is looking for lawyers with experience in copyright litigation to help fight Righthaven.

      Summary already says the person in question didn't go into IP law, and is too far down another track to switch to IP. I think that rules out having "experience in copyright litigation".

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  48. Free Software Foundation by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 2
    The Free Software Foundation can use lawyers to help answer questions from non-lawyers about the General Public License (GPL). The GPL is one of the most widely used free/open software licenses. See here for more information: http://www.fsf.org/volunteer

    The relevant snippet from the web site:

    Are you a law geek?

    * Be a Licensing Volunteer. Help us answer the many questions we receive every day at the FSF regarding the use and abuse of free software licenses. If you are interested, write to licensing@fsf.org and tell us a bit about your background, both legal and with the free software community, if you are interested. Please also run through the GPL quiz and let us know how you do.

    As an aside, if you are *neither* a lawyer nor a programmer and you're still interested in supporting open source projects, there are lots of ways to get involved. This includes those with an interest in art, linguistics, writing, testing, organizing/assisting at public functions, etc. Tons of very different approaches. Check out the link above for more info.

  49. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by badspyro · · Score: 1

    Good luck making a fork.

    The US and most of the British commonwealth DID - it's called english common law.

    It's a form of law that dates back to when a country separated from English rule, and allows the government to have a base set of laws to build upon, rather than having to make laws up after a potential crime has been committed.

    Some countries have not changed a lot of their laws and still fall back on english common law on occasion.

    By the way, IANAL, I just like the odd bit of history and law.

  50. Use Open Source. Kick some money in. Endorse it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brand me as a troll, but lawyers have no business in the computer industry. Stop posting legal articles. Stop posting lawyer articles. We are hackers. We laugh at silly rules. And the self important fools that make them. As if chanting magic words puts back to shovel and gets the manure out of the barn.

    It would be more useful it lawyers stood for free speech and my rights once in a while.

    Lawyers against TSA. Lawyers against a police state. Lawyer for smokers. Lawyers for the right to smoke and drink in a bar.

    Lawyers to investigate the mortgage crisis. Lawyers to take down the zombie banks.

    Lawyers against off shoring. Lawyers against Trillion Dollar wars.

    Lawyers for Freedom. Lawyers for Human RIghts.

    Lawyers that SPONTANEOUSLY give something back to the community,

    Lawyers against executive orders. Lawyers for the Constitution.

    Lawyers that investigated some rotten evil doers in high places, put the hurt on some high crimes.

    Like where the missing billions went in Iraq.

    Lawyers that look out for the little people, not just their masters with the megadollars.

    When you lawyers got all that cleaned up, then we can talk about software.

    Until then, us open sources, us computer nerds, us hackers great and small will continue to do fine all by ourselves.

  51. Lawyer Can Do by dontgetshocked · · Score: 1

    Hmmm,how about suing the hell out of the apple,novell,microsoft deal! Takin our patents,krap...

  52. Re:451 by MichaelKristopeit355 · · Score: 0
    how about this observation: YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

    cower behind your chosen pseudonym some more, feeb.

    you're completely pathetic.

  53. Re:451 by MichaelKristopeit353 · · Score: 0
    ur mum's face the troll... c'mon now.

    you're an ignorant hypocrite.

  54. Re:451 by MichaelKristopeit352 · · Score: 0
    pointing out a felony act committed on this internet web site chat room message board = troll

    score 0 comment = overrated

    slashdot = stagnated.

  55. Don't be pushy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    IAAL. Certain things you need to understand about lawyers and law school:
    1. No one winds up in the field of law that originally interested that person. Just the way it is.
    2. Law school does not teach you the law. People in other fields of study just don't "get this". Accept it and butt out. Law school teaches you tools that you can use in the practice of law, an if you learn some law along the way in an area that interests you, fine, but it is in the nature of the law to change. Do not assume that someone who took an IP course in law school knows the field well enough to be a practitioner or represent clients. They don't. They know just enough to get started in that field PROVIDED THAT they are hired into a firm that specializes in that area, and provided that they have an experienced IP lawyer to learn from.
    3. There is nothing more dangerous than a baby lawyer who THINKS that he knows everything. Experienced lawyers have a saying that "youth and enthusiasm is no match for old age and treachery". It's true. Don't push him into an area that he is not ready to initiate practice in. This is an extremely specialized field.
    4. Because it is so specialized, you are either an IP lawyer, OR you are some other kind of lawyer. You cannot practice one kind of law and "dabble" in IP law. If you want to be in IP law, then be an IP lawyer. If you don't want to be an IP lawyer, then leave the field to someone who wants to do that.
    5. It is unrealistic to expect someone to focus on such an intense specialty as a volunteer. Experienced IP lawyers will take on cases with EFF in order to get the national exposure. If you have the credentials and enough paying clients to cover the overhead, you may be willing to take on a case like Jammie Thomas', because if you win you will be set for life, and so will your firm, because everyone will know the name of the lawyer who beat the RIAA. But if you don't have the experience and specialized practice to make a go of it, you will not do anyone any favors by being embarrassed by an RIAA lawyer.

    1. Re:Don't be pushy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got beat by the RIAA and that nutjob Matthew Oppenheim. So did nearly all lawyers who defended RIAA cases. Embarrassed? Naw. You have to have a pretty thick skin to practice law at all, let alone go up against big, rich corporations and their law firms. Previous poster, obviously a big-firm lawyer, has his head up his ass. You can practice IP law. You just have to be smart, and be willing to work hard and study hard.

  56. check out OIN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd be much happier if he could check out the Open Inventions Network (OIN) http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/

    It seems rather dubious to me, even though many are jumping onto that ship.

    Should Linux distributions join the OIN?
    Does the concept of OIN even work?

    What does a distribution give up when it joins the OIN?

  57. Donate by NewsWatcher · · Score: 1

    Make a crapload of money working as a lawyer, then donate some of it to your favourite open source project.

    --
    If the pattern goes 9am, 10am, 11am, why isn't noon 12am?
  58. 2 ideas by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    1) Volunteer for the EFF
    2) Volunteer to help me

    I want to start a site that rates end user license agreements. The site would archive agreements, sent in by volunteers so that people could look-up the agreements before purchasing the software, or see what they are supposedly bound by after the fact. It would provide an English summary of each license, and rate them on several key criterial. Ex: Ability to reverse engineer, etc. I think it could also feature a jerky license-of-the-week section that would highlight egregious, unenforceable, or unconscionable agreements and explain why. The site would be a combination of a database and a blog.

    I've wanted to do this for years, but lawyers always want to say "this is not legal advice, etc. etc." so none of them are interested in helping. The few I know who would are not IP lawyers or aren't interested in contract law, etc.

  59. Some possible "start-up" project paths by lawhack · · Score: 1

    Great question. I went over the wall, from big law firms to open standards work, a decade ago and have loved every minute of it. (I'm the general counsel of a standards org; my definition of virtuous projects probably is broader than some.)
    Lots of great project suggestions already in the comments, here. Might also want to consider the "start-up" side, hooking up with a newer or smaller project, and helping to grow it.
    -- Shop around. Look for something that ignites your passion. Be aware that the threshold for declaring an organization or "project" is pretty low. Not every SourceForge page is going to be the next Apache. Invest your volunteer time in something which might have legs. The more active a community of contributors, the more likely you'd be useful.
    -- Open, collaborative projects generally have accessible archives. You can read up on the issues and personalities, assess possible gigs with somee advance insight. Many also have face-to-face gatherings, in this sector, sometimes on multiple continents. They tend to be friendly and accessible. Go see the tribe live.
    -- FYI, some people do make a living at it. There are a bunch of orgs where the lawyer help followed this path: started as a volunteer thing, but then evolved into full-time, self-invented, cool careers.
    -- Yes, these projects often need fairly simple, non-patent-prosecutor, lawyer help. Like basic contracts, organizational (company/entity) formation, work-for-hire arrangements, basic licensing, website hosting contract review, etc.
    -- There are boobytraps, though. If you act as someone's lawyer, obviously you're likely liable for them and yourself within the defined scope of your work, pay or no pay. So get the scope limits, expectations and any conflicts issues written down and crystal clear, in a few short pithy sentences, up front.
    -- A word about being "general counsel": that title often is taken as a broad duty to represent the org. Be careful what you promise. Still, there are some great people having a spectacular, intellectually rewarding time being the volunteer or part-time general counsel for worthy dot.orgs like ID Commons (@DanielPerry), Linux Foundation, OpenID, FSF, IETF and other groups.
    Good luck!

  60. pro bono by drew30319 · · Score: 1
    This past semester I interned at the Pro Bono Partnership of Atlanta which is modeled after the Pro Bono Partnership that covers New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut. The idea behind these groups is to provide transactional attorneys an opportunity to provide free legal services to 501(c)(3) non-profit organizations. The services provided vary widely and the attorneys are always presented with a wide variety of clients as well as issues. Transactional attorneys don't often have an easy way to provide pro bono work and these organizations are an excellent way for civic-minded attorneys to assist non-profit organizations.

    Of course he could just contact the non-profit organization of choice directly but there are several advantages to the "clearinghouse" approach. A major advantage is that the work is task-based. This affords the attorney the opportunity to help out without having to worry about over committing. Also, if your friend is interested in IP and has no interest in redrafting bylaws the organization manages the process of having these other tasks covered by attorneys with the appropriate skill-set, desire, and available bandwidth.

    As somebody who is soon to graduate law school after 12+ years in business / technology the experience at PBPATL was very encouraging. I met many wonderful attorneys who genuinely appreciate the opportunity to utilize their skills to assist non-profits with their missions. Some of these people work for HUGE companies and never get a chance to deal with the public one-on-one; it was genuinely touching to participate in their meetings and see the attorneys get just as much out of the relationship as the non-profits did.

    Anyway... just a thought but if your friend is in the NY area or Atlanta area I'd suggest checking them out. The model is fairly new and so I'm not sure if it has been replicated elsewhere.

    --
    JAGga.me ----> Producing video games addressing emotional health and wellness issues affecting teens.
  61. Write info on understanding open source licences by jonwil · · Score: 2

    The lawyer friend could write some stuff that spells out the legal requirements for companies when it comes to the GPL and other open source licences in different situations as well as what to do to prevent the situation where a company cant comply with the GPL without violating an NDA with a hardware vendor and other related open source licence complience issues.

    Also related to this would be documentation on how copyright holders can pursue GPL violations and particularly stuff that can be used to target repeat offenders who consistantly violate the GPL with every device they sell and only release the source code weeks or months after the device is released *cough*HTC*cough*

  62. Use it and talk to your peers about it by fishexe · · Score: 1

    Law offices use a lot of software. Using open source in the office whenever it meets your needs, then mentioning you use and why you use it when talking to other lawyers, can go a long way to promoting open source, and the more popular open source software gets within the legal profession, the more people there will be who both have the requisite legal skills to help out and desire to do so. Also, a lot of lawyers end up as legislators or other government officials with the power to influence software purchasing decisions for public agencies; the more such people know about open source software and its public benefits, the better.

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  63. Pirate Party != Piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and piracy != copyright violation, anyway.

    First of all: pirate parties don't advocate copyright violations. They just try to address the damage being done by the current wild growth of so-called "intellectual property laws": practically unlimited copyrights (90+ years and going), patent on the most frivolous and general ideas, pushing through of "IPR" laws through the most undemocratic channels (ACTA?). So a good place for a dedicated lawyer, I'd say.

    Please, stop spreading FUD and get your facts straight (unless you're a shill, anyway).

  64. Recent Talk at 27C3 by kensan · · Score: 1

    Yesterday Tiffany Strauchs Rad who describes herself as a "hacker lawyer" gave a related talk at the 27th Chaos Communication Congress: https://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/events/4236.en.html Recordings of this talk should be available soon. At the end of her talk where a similar question was asked and her answer was more or less: "follow me on twitter (TiffanyRad)".

  65. Jump of the nearest bridge ... maybe? by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    *TaDum* *Crash* *Thud*

    Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.
    Try the fish.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  66. Get in touch with an organisation you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't say what country your friend studied law in, or where he lives now? Those factors are obviously relevant when deciding how and where he could help out. For example, I (living in Sweden) answer legal questions in various contexts but I find that US lawyers are reluctant to give legal advise (or when they do they tell you that they don't).

    Anyway get in touch with an established organisation. You'll find that they will gladly accept any help they can get. The EFF has been suggested and that seems like a good choice, since they are very litigation oriented. Alternatives include the FSF and the FSFE (which has a "legal network" you can join). These organisations get questions from developers all the time and could use help answering them. It can be anything from a quick answer to "Can I use code from project X in project Y?" to more complex questions about infringement or license compliance, in which case you would probably help them understand the issues at hand and then tell them to get a paid lawyer.

  67. Yes: Groklaw and the EFF by golodh · · Score: 1
    Yes, Groklaw ( http://www.groklaw.net/ ) is probably the place where an interested lawyer can (a) probably have the most impact per hour spent, (b) keep control of the amount of time this sideline is going to cost him, and (cb) make himself visible to a network of lawyers who are sympathetic to Open Source and who may want to make his acquaintance.

    Then there is the Free Software Foundation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation ) with whom is associated Eben Moglen ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen ). Both could use a hand, and both are rich sources of interesting cases from which your friend could pick one (all in the interest of keeping his commitment manageable) to help with.

  68. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by pjt33 · · Score: 1

    You see have have got my point and missed it at the same time. The only way to make a fork would be a unilateral declaration of independence, and it's rather likely that before you'd made more than trivial patches you'd find that declaration being disputed by force.

    (FWIW I'd consider it rather more realistic to describe English common law as dating back to the Dark Ages, if not before. It was the legal system in England before it was a colonial power).

  69. Re:Use Open Source. Kick some money in. Endorse it by mbstone · · Score: 1

    Mod parent up, way up. There are far higher priorities than GPL for lawyers who want to help fight injustices and right wrongs, the previous poster nailed many of them, and you can get attorney fees awarded some of the time. Yes, IAAL, and I did defend Craig Etling, the first guy to be arrested for smoking in a bar in California. You're welcome. If OP's friend wants to wet his beak IP-wise, he could try his hand at defending RIAA/MPAA/Righthaven lawsuits.

  70. Change Trajectories by Compulawyer · · Score: 1

    I did and it was the best career move I ever made. My undergraduate degree was in a non-tech area. I spent the first 2 years of my practice at an international law firm doing banking and finance law. When I couldn't take it anymore I went back to school to get a formal education in Computer Science. At the end of the program, I had multiple offers to be an IP lawyer.

    OSS is so pervasive now that every single company must take it into account when doing any type of software project. Companies that can effectively use OSS (and have good legal counsel to help them be effective) have competitive advantages.

    I am not saying your friend has to go back to school. Knowing the basics of software engineering is critical however to be an effective attorney in the open source area. You must also have good knowledge of copyright, patent, and trade secret laws. I do a lot of work in the compliance area (making sure my clients are not violating open source or other licenses from upstream providers) and I cannot even begin to recount how many times my legal opinion to a client has depended on the specifics of the architecture of a piece of software.

    A career in law is too difficult to spend it practicing in an area you do not love.

    --

    Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.

  71. Blog it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until (or after) your friend finds a project he can sink his well-meaning teeth into I would enjoy reading a blog that discusses not only the horrendous GPL but also the MIT, Apache, BSD, CopyLeft, Creative Commons licenses, etc.. from an actual lawyer. (Maybe there's one out there already? I don't know?) His first post could be on Wordpress enforcing it's GPL by threatening to sue the designers of custom themes and plugins. I know the debate could really use an impartial 3rd party that's actually passed the bar.

  72. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by bhcompy · · Score: 1

    That would be starting over. A fork is merely branching off the existing base. A state constitution would be a fork, county charter, city charter, hoa, etc. Forks until you're blue in the face, and they all build on the same base "application" with their own customizations

  73. Re:Forming an international, leaderless organizati by sco08y · · Score: 1

    They did, a while back, but it didn't work out so well.

  74. Re:451...So sad - apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Did your MOTHER name you MICHAELKRISTOPEIT355?

    LOL!

    You are such a SAD little TROLL!

    What's worse, you'll never know the AWESOME POWER of my HOSTS file.

    APK

    P.S.=> You suck, ALL 350 of you.

  75. repent your sins, learn to program instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your friend is actually experiencing the remorse of being a lawyer.
    Changing the flavor of lawyerism will not remove his feelings of guilt.
    His attempt at involvement in open source is just a way for him to polish up the turd (aka his conscience).

  76. Freedom Task Force by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He could help at: http://www.fsfe.org/projects/ftf/ftf.en.html