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Smart Grid Brings Powerline Broadband Back?
judgecorp writes "The UK is giving powerline broadband a serious trial once again, in up to 1000 homes in Liverpool. The technology was once hailed as an alternative to ADSL, delivered over the electricity mains, but lost out because of radio interference and price. The UK government is backing the installation of smart meters across the country, and it seems a new generation of 200Mbps powerline broadband could ride on that, cutting the installation costs. What about the interference issues? A recent FAQ from the regulator, Ofcom, says it has not found any evidence of a breach of EMC rules, but is keeping an eye on it."
sed 's/eficdence/evidence/' summary
So wrong it's not even right. Can we get wiki style volunteer editors?
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
Yeah, I haven't found any of that either, whatever it is.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Sounds pretty good to me, when can I benefit from this in the good ol' USA? p.s. "evicdence" was pretty rough.
There was a Slashdot post earlier about forking the Internet, and mesh networking was shot down pretty quick because of large distances between nodes. Could networking over powerlines be a solution?
All this summary needs is "Posted from my iPhone"...
www.eFax.com are spammers
"A recent FAQ from the regulator, Ofcom, says it has not found any evidence of a breach of EMC rules, but is keeping an eye on it."
I'll just translate this from bullshit to English:
"A recent FAQ from the regular, Ofcom, says it has not found that it will cause any problems for commercial applications where companies generate a lot of revenue, but that HAMs can go and fuck themselves with their now useless antennae."
They cost a fortune to install & maintain, much more than any reduced electrical consumption.
UK government is backing the installation of smart meters across the country, and it seems a new generation of 200Mbps powerline broadband could ride on that
OK so lets take a look at a typical smart meter, how bout a PCR423 from nationpower.
It has to be mounted inside the building (which probably pisses off the fire department to no end) and runs at 1200 baud IR, 2400 baud RS485 (for an external modem), a mysterious RF link, and a GPRS/CDMA interface that is probably vaguely Kindle/whispernet like. No options for commo over power lines, but we can guess "somewhere around a K/s" since thats all thats required and all the other interfaces run about that fast, more or less.
And we'll run 200 M/s over that size of link, what, using compression or something?
I'm just saying there's got to be more to the story, as the app that fractional gig internet access is supposedly going to "piggyback" is probably (and appropriately) running about 1980's phone modem speed.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Here in Houston, CenterPoint Energy provides the utility. As of a few weeks ago, I've noticed that my energy provider keeps a record of how much energy I've used each day on the hour. It's pretty damned cool that I can review this data. I can even spot the areas where I've cooked (electric, no gas) at that time of day. What I'm must curious about is *how* each meter uploads the data.
I've been informed by others that maybe it uses a form of powerline broadband with the new meters. Is this true?
Life is not for the lazy.
Sooooooo, what exactly will Ofcoms explanation be when all of a sudden I can't get a single station on my short-wave radio? Did they all go off air, at the same time?
And every HAM in Britain's equipment suddenly broke due to magic?
And all the CB's pick up this weird noise due to pranksters broadcasting it on ever single channel?
This is beyond a joke now, Ofcom exists exactly so this sort of shit doesn't happen, and I think the issue has now progressed to the point where some individuals need to face criminal charges.
Has someone actually figured out how to get high (data carrying) frequencies past the transformers?
If not, the power companies will still need to run fiber our to the transformer anyway - and if you are doing that, why not go all the way and install a passive optical network terminal and run fiber right from there to the premise?
I suspect powerline data will be one of those things that is always 5 years away.
-ted
Nobody uses radio for anything anymore.
The funny part is my water meter is read by a simple low power RF system... So I have the option of electricity and electro-internet OR running water. Hmmm.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Groups like the American Radio Relay League have fought against this for a long time, as well as recently, too. There's talk of notching the BPL, and is done some places, but not everywhere. Since the feds took over the developing ownership rights of the spectrum with the FCC, it's their responsibility to ensure BPL providers aren't interfering with licensed spectrum users.
Convert the meter to use a 3G cell system. Problem solved!
Again with the "smart grid". I wouldn't want to be be connected to one, I've heard way too many possible issues. Its proponents tout its "reliability, security, redundancy, etc" while virtually every real world analysis of it I have heard of it says its open to sabotage, buggy, costly and has privacy/homeowner issues. Don't get me wrong, the basic concept of a load balancing, error reporting, at-home-generation compatible power distribution system sounds great. But I fear that the "smart grid" concept is being used by power companies to get the government to pay for the roll-out of peak hour metering, proprietary equipment development, the capability of forcefully shutting off consumer appliances, and grid updates.
I know. I know. Don't feed the trolls. But...
In some areas, at least in the USA, the infrastructure is not thoroughly built out. We live in a rural area. Recently the EMTs tried to call for a Life Flight for the victim of a serious auto accident. Turns out that the telephone company had taken down the long distance phone link for scheduled maintenance. Cell phones were of no use because the cell tower sends the signal via copper out of the area for switching, then back into the area for connection to the dialed party. Without a switched local copper phone line, the cell system was useless.
If it were not for the ability of the emergency dispatcher to contact the state EOC via RADIO (yes that old fashion technology) the accident victim would most likely have died.
So, yes, radio technology is "old school". But it is an important means of communications, especially in the case of emergencies. That's why the ARRL motto is "When all else fails".
Lets assume they are using the +20MHz spectrum. There are a few installations in the US (I believe one is in Colorado). Essentially, a collector is installed on the LV side of a power line transformer. (The transformer acts like a filter to the signal, isolating the connection from other neighborhoods.) This collector is typically connected to another technology as the backhaul. In Europe, it is reasonable to expect 200 homes on a single transformer, so it is very cost-effective for this kind of utilization. In the US, you get only 1-8 homes per transformer, so the cost is fairly large. If you really need to, you can use the MV line to transmit this PLC as a backhaul.
200Mbps is the Maximum amount, used for marketing purposes. In Europe, they can have a couple hundred houses connected to the same LV transformer. This means that you are sharing a 200 Mbps connection with the neighborhood. If you assume 100 homes for one transformer and 50% utilization, a home can get a maximum of 2Mbps (assuming an ideal backhaul). As you all know, this is an "ideal" number. If they try to use PLC as the backhaul (instead of fiber), then you share the bandwidth with other neighborhoods, reducing your datarate well below 1Mbps.
Other considerations: Repeaters.
Underground wiring is another filter. This kind of technology will require a repeater every 100 meters for a full underground installation. Overhead wires need a repeater every 500 meters or so. If you are in a high-noise environment (as in, there is a factory connected to your substation), datarates are decreased and more repeaters are required.
Simply put, the final system will look closer to 500Kbps per home and it will cost a significant amount of money to the homeowner, either through taxes or through required rate hikes on your utility bill.)
So if you want to use PLC to help solve the ISP monopoly, you are looking in the wrong place.
Signed,
A Smart-Grid researcher and designer for the US market
sed 's/eficdence/evidence/' summary
So wrong it's not even right. Can we get wiki style volunteer editors?
Your aint nuthine butt a gamma natssi.
They actually have electricity in Liverpool these days? Outstanding! Last time I was there the natives fell to their knees wailing it was the end of the world if they saw a light bulb.
Radio interference? Nah. None of that, thank you. Costly? Pft. It's 'For the Environment' buddy; pay up. Can't get it through on its merits? Hang it on the eco anti-energy agenga! Fast track to success.
Yes BPL affects Hams, but more importantly it also wipes out Ambulance, Fire, Marine, Aircraft, Miltary, SW Broadcasting and any other essential service which uses ShortWave for emergency communications.
Whenever you read an idiot moaning about ham interference, you know you are reading a troll or someone trying to spin the issue. Hams are largely protected by notching, but there are many other vitally important services which are at risk.
There are other issues as well. The Power Lines are very, very noisy. BPL cannot work because of the inherent interference. Power Lines are also poorly balanced and shielded. Not only do they radiate, but BPL suffers catastrophically from interference coming from outside. Like SW broadcasting.
Even if BPL did work, it would be capable of only low overall speed which in turn must be shared between multiple users.
BPL is an appalling scam which is regularly dragged out and then quickly abandoned when the trials inevitably fail.
Uh, if you live in an area so rural that you have to radio in for emergency services, your not going to get served by BPL.
Any why do you think rural areas will affect powerline broadband? A place that needs radio will NOT get this tech, but it's not going to affect the rest of the U.S. By your logic, one might as well bitch how the deplorably primitive conditions in the Antarctic is bringing the world's technology down...
~Another Anon
You can only put so much bandwidth on a power line. One interesting idea I've seen is running it down natural gas pipes. You could go to terahertz speeds with that, and it's underground.