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Aussie Retailers Lobby For Tax On Online Purchases
An anonymous reader writes "Major Australian retailers are running a print advertising campaign to get the government to decrease the amount where the Goods and Services tax (Australian sales tax) comes into effect for all online purchases. Currently, the tax free amount is at $1000 AUD for online purchases. The retailers, such as Target, Harvey Norman, David Jones, Myer and others, are lobbying through newspapers and are considering launching a television commercial. The print adverts are claiming that if the amount remains the same, Australian jobs will be lost and the economy will be harmed. This is facing a massive backlash from consumers, and the government's assistant treasurer said it was an action by stores to fix the issues affecting them."
Like the digital media producers of the world, these Australian retailers would rather shift the earth than themselves.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/gerry-harvey-in-difficult-position-over-gst-crusade-20110107-19i3u.html
Gerry Harvey decided it wasn't the best idea to piss of his own customers..
And if that isn't bad enough, the New Zealand Retail Association thinks it's a great idea - they want the 15% GST to be applied to EVERY purchase, no matter the origin.
The way I see it, they should just stop whining that they don't have it easy any more. You just can't have a 50% margin any more, get over it. Stores should start competing based on their actual merits, such as the ability to get a product to you in less than 2 weeks. And an actual warranty.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
I vote and I say no.
The big retailers came and close down the mom and pop shops.
Now the big retailers are hurting, and they want to return to profitability by taxing the competition.
Not sure how it can be done economicaly
G
It's not online retailers, it's overseas retailers. They want to charge tax on all imports, no matter the amount, so that you won't even be able to import a pair of $50 shoes without them taxing it.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
It's the businesses problem if they no longer seem competitive.
That said I'm not sure how much of an impact it will have on Australian jobs, but brick and mortar shops and online retailers should probably be treated evenly.
... the price difference was not typically more than 150% markup (without shipping) on the same product (with free shipping) as opposed to the 10% GST. You know, if the price difference were only 10-15% and shipping wasn't typically so overpriced ($15 - $20 for packages as small as RAM) even in the same city, I wouldn't mind buying in my own country.
Come to Australia so we can strip search you and rob you of your internets, pr0n, rights and freedoms.
They're complaining about sales from online retailers outside of the country. Anything bought from an online Australian website charges GST (unless you're ordering from outside of the country IIRC). Anyhow it's the big retailers pushing for this, that once undercut the local independent 'mum & dad' business, as they can bulk order from wholesalers, and return goods if they're not sold. They also decimated the manufacturing industry here, by sourcing cheaper goods abroad. To claim the consumer is un-australian for getting the better deal, after their shit for the last 20 or so years, is ludicrous.
The reason why people are shopping online is not because they don't have to pay the tax. Even if they did they can still get it cheaper accounting for postage/shipping by shopping online. The tax we are talking about is 10% yet many products you can get for 50% of the Australian price. It seems most retailers in Australia think the exchange rate for AUD/USD is 0.6 (currently at parity).
This isn't just bricks and mortar either:
Microsoft Visual Studio Ultimate with MSDN: AU$20,775.00 or US$11,899
The problem Gerry Harvey and co have is not that their goods are 10% more expensive then the equivalent goods online, the problem Harvey and co have is that their goods are 50% more expensive then the equivalent online.
Gerry Harvey's store, Harvey Norman (AKA Hardly Normal [prices]) is one of the stores I refuse to shop at due to it's high prices, incredibly annoying ads and now this. What Harvey really wants is for the government to step in and protect his profits (most of which come from predatory "interest free" deals which have something along the lines of 30% interest applied) by artificially making it more expensive to buy online.
Fortunately our assistant treasurer Bill Shorten has already shot the idea down saying it would be too expensive to implement.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Yeah you're right I should say it's unfair to Aussie online retailers as well, but that's the point the Aussie retailers have to pay GST on any goods they sell you. It's nice not to pay tax, but it would also be nice to have a tax system not structured in such a way that it puts Australian businesses at a disadvantage over their overseas competitors and potentially forces them and the jobs they create off shore.
Either you're charging GST on every purchase or your not.
For the record I don't think this will rescue Harvey Norman or Myer or anyone. They're price gouging arseholes, but I don't think the government should be taxing some business and not others.
The GST issue is actually a non-issue but it's a highly visible one that can be driven hard. As it is, the 10% isn't the cause of the make/break when it comes to retailing. The bigger issue at hand here however is the constant desire we all have to increase our income more and decrease our expenditure (for the same quantity of goods). However, it's a circular system (I won't say closed, since we have inflation) and if you demand more wages then those wages have to come from... PROFIT. What people need to get into their heads is that you can't magically get more money to spend and expect everything (domestically) to be cheaper at the same time, not without you either climbing the ladder to a higher income job or something else to genuinely leap up to more income.
The problem with direct sales to China etc is that the cash has now left the country and isn't greasing the economic engine. I'm not saying that everyone should be forced to buy "Australian", however I think that people are failing to realise that they're ultimately selling themselves down a river without a paddle if they continue to send all their income overseas.
Another aspect is, I'm a domestic manufacturer (amongst other things) and it's brutally painful to see people being able to purchase complete electronics devices for less money than what I can even buy the raw parts for (also direct from China). So when people see my product at $40, they think I'm 'gouging' them $20 when they can get the same sort of thing direct for $20, where's the reality is I can't even buy the parts for less! When that happens I just drop the product line and if people ask why I don't have it, I give them the explanation. So even if you take personal profit out of the equation it's still impossible to compete against direct-buy for a lot of things. Yes, one has to get smarter about it and find new niche markets but don't go to town bitching at domestic companies about profit-gouging when we already have to be twice as nimble on our feet just to keep the doors open.
Paul.
..."Hardly Normal" were pulling out of that 'lil posse due to the sheer amount of flak they were copping for it?
This story is a disgrace and the vast vast majority of consumers are utterly disgusted by the actions of these large chains.
We are currently under an oligopoly in Australia for retail options in general and it's mostly getting worse.
I went for the first time overseas recently to Hong Kong, Paris and London and within 2 or 3 days of the holiday, myself and my travel partner were utterly shocked, upset and dismayed at just how /ludicrously/ cheap everything was, clothing, shoes, internet, food - everything was vastly cheaper.
Things have always been traditionally 'gouged' here in regards to pricing, the problem is it's not just the retailers being scumbags, from what I gather the manufacturers, wholesalers and suppliers to the country are bastards too.
Apple for example sell products internationally with no middle man, the Apple stores purchased their goods from Apple asia where they are likely manufactured. The pricing is often not just 5 or 10% more but 20 to 50% more depending on items.
I purchased a pair of identical shoes to a pair I got in Melbourne for $280 in a genuine retail Nike store in Hong Kong for $70, I've looked at them thoroughly, several times over, they really are the genuine item yet the price difference is astounding.
Our dollar has recently gained strength internationally yet goods still don't appear to be getting cheaper in the slightest.
As for the retailers, Aussie retailers are living in the DARK.AGES - they have little to no concept of what an online store is or how to run one and have been laughing up the profits for years, finally the cost of shipping things internationally has continued to drop and the AU$ risen to the point we're going overseas for more and more goods.
I say a plague on all their houses, these people are greedy vermin, threatening Aussie jobs for the sake of (gross amounts) of profit.
but there isn't. Online Australian retailers operate under the same rules and laws as brick and mortar retailers.
The Australian government realises it does not have power over foreign retailers. The tax free threshold was established to allow cheaper imports and create competition in our stagnant, monopoly dominated retail market.
Read this blog entry of Rulsan Kogan who runs an online store within Australia. Kogan.com.au pays the same taxes and import duties as Harvey Norman but does a much lower volume of sales then HN yet manages a much better price on equivalent (no-name brand) goods.
This is Gerry Harvey and others attempting to foist an artificial barrier to consumer choice and the free market in general. It wont stop at 10% (the GST) because Harvey cant compete with Aussie online retailers, let alone Chinese or US ones.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Yeah you're right I should say it's unfair to Aussie online retailers as well, but that's the point the Aussie retailers have to pay GST on any goods they sell you. It's nice not to pay tax, but it would also be nice to have a tax system not structured in such a way that it puts Australian businesses at a disadvantage over their overseas competitors and potentially forces them and the jobs they create off shore.
Either you're charging GST on every purchase or your not.
For the record I don't think this will rescue Harvey Norman or Myer or anyone. They're price gouging arseholes, but I don't think the government should be taxing some business and not others.
The problem is it isn't the consumers who really pay the tax, it's the retailers. How exactly do you propose that the government tax overseas retailers. I can think of a few options but each one of them forces me to think be careful what you wish for . What you and the retailers seem to support is not good for anybody at all except for the government.
GST is a furphy and anyone capable of doing the numbers would see that. Few do
And even fewer seem to care. This whole campaign by a few rich merchants has been met with an almost universal "piss off."
And there will still be jobs, but not at the retailers - it's instead at the delivery companies.
However - tax on overseas is already what is applied to products entering Europe. VAT and customs fee is added by the customs office.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Having experienced this kind of anal import policies while I was living in Germany, I cannot stress enough how much you want to avoid this. Not necessarily because of the money(10% of a pair of shoes is what, $5?), but because of the stupid hoops they make you jump through just to get access to your own property. I had an electronic dictionary(one they don't even sell in Germany) sent to me from Japan, and instead of getting it in the mail I instead got a notice that I had to go to Nuremberg, which was over an hour away, and they weren't open on weekends and hardly open at all during the weekday. I went there and saw about 10 young employees standing around essentially doing nothing, eventually they said they would send it to my address in the states so I could collect it when I went home. Long story short they fucked me over and sent it back to the dude I bought it from. Fortunately he gave me most of my money back, but the long and short of it is that the German government spent their own money to deny me my property. Fucking brilliant.
Even for people who don't get fucked over like I did have to take a huge chunk out of their day to trudge over to the zollamt, if they could even get any time off when the stupid thing was open(they steal your shit then don't even have the common decency to have reasonable hours), all so you can spend 30 minutes filling out forms so they can collect 5 euros from you. Seriously, this woman who came it at the same time received some sort of figurine from the US, the thing was maybe, MAYBE worth 30 euros and they still made her do all that stupid shit I think she walked out of there paying them about 5 euros. They probably spent more than that just on the "labor", really it's just a massive employment program with some government manager probably getting a nice fat salary because he has to "manage" all those people.
Monstar L
How exactly do you propose that the government tax overseas retailers.
I suppose you could simply tax the packages when they enter the country using something like I dunno... a declared value on the side of the package. Sort of like countries do it now.
You know who it's really unfair to?
The taxpayer, who has to pick up the tab for the implementation and border enforcement - of the 20c tax on a $2 cable. Because I'll tell you one thing for free, the overseas retailers won't be collecting and remitting it. Why should they? They've got their own tax laws to ensure compliance with. You start expecting online retailers to comply with taxes in every single country on the planet they sell to, and you're looking at compliance costs jumping up by orders of magnitude. Guess what? Then you're in a situation where online retailers are at a hundred fold disadvantage to brick and mortar stores. So your only option is customs charging it at the border.
There's a reason that governments only charge sales tax on expensive overseas purchases - the administrative cost of charging tax (including biosecurity vetting, staffing costs, storage, payment administration, and all sorts of other expenses). And for bonus points, you have to charge different amounts of tax based on the origin (Free Trade Agreements, or at least ones as one sided as US Free Trade Agreements, tend to forbid charging more tax than the other country charges on imports). So then US online retailers have an advantage over any others. Yay!
I personally feel that anyone who supports this tax probably works for a large Australian (or New Zealand, which tends to mean Australian anyway) retailer. So which one are you?
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
You cant always blame the retailer. Sometimes its the local wholesaler/importer who is gouging the Aussie market.
Take for example Burton snowboarding gear. Its much more expensive to walk into a store and buy here (even after accounting for GST and freight costs) than it is to walk into a store in the US and buy the same product.
Same thing with LEGO sets. I can walk into a store in the US and buy the latest LEGO police station for US$100 (or even less if I was to buy from a US online retailer or find it from somewhere selling on sale or below MSRP). The same set is available from a number of Australian retailers (as well as the LEGO online store) for AU$150.
The only reason I cant buy from these stores is because they cant/wont sell to Australians.
I am sure that K-Mart, Big W, MYER, Target etc would LOVE to be paying similar wholesale prices to what Wal-Mart, Toys R Us, Target USA, K-Mart USA and other US retailers are paying.
The right answer is to get rid of sales tax altogether. It's a ridiculously backwards, regressive tax that penalizes the poor more than the rich. You can try to make it fair by omitting food and basic necessities, but that doesn't work well because it hits the middle class the most, and is open to administrative abuses (the favored companies of the ones administrating the tax can have things omitted in their favor).
Get rid of sales tax. Then you won't have these market distortions.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The government may not benefit either. Currently they collect GST on individual's imported goods valued at over $1000. The tax gained from the multitude of items with imported valued less than that probably wouldn't outweigh the actual collection costs. Hence why they exclude such low value items from the GST.
They don't have use tax like some other people have to pay? I mean, here in Washington state, if I buy from a retailer who doesn't charge sales tax, I'm liable for the tax still. Although, I'm sure a lot of Washingtonians don't know about it, or don't care if they do (and they probably won't get caught as long as it isn't expensive).
I don't know what Australia is like, but here's an idea...
Could they make things revenue neutral by...
i. Implementing an tax on overseas purchases and,
ii. Lowering the GST so things are neutral as before?
Either lowering the percentage, or perhaps exempting some more items to make it a bit more progressive?
This isn't all online purchases, just imports from overseas. The way it works is any import under $1000 AUD doesn't have to pay duties/tax.
Food prices are also now controlled by just a few companies in Aussie and this is something you can't go without. It's bad enough that Nike shoes are over the top, but when it's meat and bread it really hurts. The GST is essentially a tax on locally produced goods to which value has been added or service performed. Raw food is exempted from GST, bust processed food isn't so it now seems that Coles and others have found their own GST loophole by importing partly processed food but claiming the exemption. They spend millions finding out how to get around the GST so it seems absolutely hypocritical to bluster on about us buying mountains of sub-$1k items from overseas. I agree with AbRASiON on this - it's not the 10% they're worried about, it's the other 40% on top! See ATO guide on which foods attract GST here - http://www.ato.gov.au/print.asp?doc=/content/18694.htm Just don't know how highly processed brekfast cereals gain an exemption (ask Mr - tax free - Kelloggs/Sanitarium) and of course the sugar lobby got white refined sugar GST-free somehow - can't live without that one :-)
The whole GST application is a debacle. But AbASiON's ponit on gouging is valid - just try to buy books online and see what local suppliers think, never mind DVDs and MP3s.
The thing is, shipping costs more than the 10% GST in most cases anyway. So there isn't anything to gain from taxing overseas retailers. All it does is make things more complicated to purchase from them, meaning that at the end of the day, the only people that would lose out in that scenario are the consumers. So if the prices were competitive, people would more than likely buy local. I know that's how I operate, international sales are a pain when you need to make a warranty claim.
So IMHO, Gerry Harvey or any of those other large retail chains do not have a right to my money, they can stick their bad customer service and exorbitant prices up their collective coits.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
You can find these for as little as $9 in Australia...
http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/hdmi-cable-v14-3-metres-gold-plated/
I call BS on the $12 with International postage too. Where did you order it from?
The Board of Taxations released a study 12 months ago that stated recovery of GST on single imports below $1000 was not economically viable. http://www.taxboard.gov.au/content/reviews_and_consultations/gst_to_cross_border_transactions/report/gst_cross_border_transactions_report.pdf.
My experience with importing stuff is that Customs clearance is very quick - same day for most postal articles, a bit longer if you're forced to use Fedex, DHL, etc.
Based on the backlash against retailers, I can't see the government taking a chance at pissing off voters.
I rarely buy anything locally anymore (except for food) even if it costs me more to buy from overseas. Why? Australian resellers (both traditional and online), distributors and importers are lazy abusive con artists.
Every time I try to order anything locally it's either marked up by an obscene amount (anywhere from 200% to 2000% over the retail price in the US/UK/EU/etc.) or more likely simply unavailable because the local shops and distributors couldn't be fucked carrying anything except the cheapest shitty thing they can import from China.
Email an online store here and ask about a product - 90% of the time you get no reply. Go into a bricks and mortar shop and ask for something and 90% of the time they'll answer by offering you a completely different product. When you tell them that you're after a specific make and model and aren't interested in alternatives more often than not the sales guy will abuse you.
Just today I had another experience of the local bullshit: I wanted to buy some new HDD's (I'd rather buy spinning chunks of rust locally for warranty purposes), I'd settled on the new Hitachi 7K3000 in the 2TB size (note that the 3TB size _is_ available here) so I emailed the three distributors mentioned on the Hitachi site. One bounced (this also happens a lot) one ignored me and the other one said that I'd have to wait at least two more months before they'd be bothered to import them. Best guess as to why: there are probably thousands of the older 7K2000 2TB model sitting in a warehouse in Japan and the local dickheads probably offered to take them at a reduced price from Hitachi all the while still charging the same price to the customer.
This debate has been making headlines here for a few weeks now and the thing I find most ironic is that no one has bothered to suggest that just maybe the GST should be simply abolished - everyone seems to accept the idea that the government sticking its hand in your pocket every time you make a purchase as some kind of natural law. This baffles me: the left should naturally be against it because it disproportionately taxes the poor and the right should be against it because it's a tax that is administered non-voluntarily buy businesses without recompense.
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There are sites out there which are cheap and have free postage. A good example is DealExtreme - $7.20 for a HDMI cable with free postage. That isn't the cheapest on the site, they go from $4.52!
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These guys loved it when they could stock their stores with goods from overseas at a fraction of the cost of locally produced equivalents... they passed a portion of the savings onto the consumer, pocketed the rest and did lots of locals out of a job.
Now that the everyman can also take advantage of the global supply chain and eliminate the middle man they cry foul... boo-hoo.
I'm an Australian consumer and I will happily pay an extra 10% on purchases for GST on behalf of the overseas retailer.
Goods online are, in nearly all instances over 50% cheaper overseas. If I can give 10% of this money to Australia to help support our country I am happy to do so.
Dear Retailers who are involved in this,
Please rest assured I and every other consumer who is outraged at your comments will never shop in your overpriced, monopolized brick and mortar stores ever again. Our AUD has almost doubled in value (54c to 101c vs USD) yet our prices are still increasing.
When you stop buying from China, so will we.
I don't think thats accurate at all.
I'd say Gerry Harvey understands that everything is going to online shopping, and also realizes that for him (and others) to stay competitive is to go offshore for warehousing via holding companies.
Thats how most online retailers work, and thats how they get the low prices. Very very low overheads, not having to employ many people in country. Not having to front up the cost for retail outlets and in store warranty on goods.
Gerry Harvey is a very nice guy, and very patriotic.
The problem is it isn't the consumers who really pay the tax, it's the retailers.
The retailers have to add 10% GST to their sale price. They get a deduction of GST from their costs. How exactly do they get stuck with paying the GST?
The problem is it isn't the consumers who really pay the tax, it's the retailers. How exactly do you propose that the government tax overseas retailers.
Now you need to be careful with your definitions here - I know what you mean though... The consumer does end up paying the GST as they're the end user of the good or service. This GST is collected by the retailer at the point of purchase and paid to the Government. (input credits not withstanding etc...)
What they're proposing is that Customs will hold any imported goods and levy a 10% GST on them before you're allowed to receive them.
There's a very good reason why the Government doesn't do this already, and it's not because they want to give consumers a break. It's simply too much administrative overhead to collect less than $100 worth of GST on a single transaction.
So, what the retailers are wishing for isn't even really good for the Government as it's another layer of red tape and paperwork on EVERY single package that enters the country. It they thought they could make money adding GST onto these purchases, they would have done so already.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
I haven't checked the prices, but DealExtreme http://dealextreme.com/ has some insane prices.
Every price you see on the site there is in USD and INCLUDES international shipping anywhere in the world.
I think the only way they can do it is by being subsidised by the Chinese Government.
I've quite literally bought items off that site for a couple of dollars and had them turn up in my post box 7-10 days later. I'm amazed, so much so that when I've had issues with the products (and at those prices you can't honestly expect it to be 100%) that it would cost me more to return it than it would to purchase another one. They seem to realise this though and it's only in extreme cases that you need to return defective or incorrect items...
And, I've bought HDMI cables from there before - digital cables are digital cables (for sensible lengths anyway) and my PS3 is working perfectly in 1080p to my LCD TV and has been for a couple of years now.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
Bingo! This is exactly why they don't collect GST on purchases from overseas, and why when you buy something big, they do hold it in customs till you cough up.
The Government exempting online purchases with less than $100 GST collectable isn't because they're all warm and fuzzy and want to give us a good deal. It's because it would cost more than the GST amount to collect it.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
Could they make things revenue neutral by...
i. Implementing an tax on overseas purchases and,
ii. Lowering the GST so things are neutral as before?
Either lowering the percentage, or perhaps exempting some more items to make it a bit more progressive?
The thing is, even though the retailers are blowing a storm about all this, something like less than 3% of all purchases were made online in Australia over the Christmas break and less than 1% of all purchases were from an overseas retailer. To mess with something as complex and far-reaching as the GST for this miniscule amount would be more trouble than it's worth.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
You've nailed this one.
When I can purchase something from overseas for quite literally half the retail price here in Australia, then add a bit of shipping and it's still significantly cheaper, I'd actually be happy to pay another 10% on top as it's STILL cheaper than purchasing the item here in Oz.
This leads to the situation of some large brand names - Canon and Nikon spring to mind, that take advantage of their market position to do everything they can to kill the grey market. If you buy, for example, a Canon DSLR here in Australia, if it's a grey market import (ie, not imported directly by Canon Australia) then Canon will not only refuse to service it under warranty (fair enough I suppose as the product doesn't have an international warranty) but they will actively refuse to perform any work on it whatsoever, even if you want to pay to have it serviced. If it's not an Oz serial number they simply will not touch it.
Now, this is a big deal as I can get a Canon EOS 5D MkII camera body in the USA for $2499 (I'm assuming for the purpose of this exercise that $1AUD = $1USD)
Were I to purchase that very same camera here in Australia, from Canon, for $3599. If I were to turn to eBay instead and get one from Hong Kong, I can get this very same camera for $2300 with free shipping.
Well-respected USA online store: http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2.html
Canon Australia: http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/For-You/Digital-Cameras/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras/5D
There have even been times where if you wanted a mid-range or high-end MacBook Pro, it'd be cheaper to fly to the USA, walk into an Apple store, buy the computer and fly home than it would have been to purchase the same machine here in Australia.
The pattern to really high local prices seems to be when the parent company controls the importation and distribution, we all get reamed.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
First off, when you pretend to be Australian, step number one is use En_AU
Flat out wrong. Gerry does understand that a lot of retail is going online, what he doesn't realise is his business model needs to change in order to remain competitive. Already most Australian's would rather shop at other retailers like JB Hifi or Retravision (where I bought an A$500 air conditioner last night) who are at least semi-competitive with online retailers and don't try to push you into predatory "interest free" credit deals (actual interest is quiet high).
Harvey wants online trading to change to suit him rather then changing to be competitive. Complete opposite of what you are saying.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,
You're talking about the man who played a huge part in killing local competition and manufacturing. He is now part of the retail oligopoly which strangles independent brick and mortar competitors in the infancy.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt, what he's basically saying is that brick and mortar stores are a very inefficient and expensive way to provide goods to people. Rather than improve their efficiency or allow the market to kill off the old and no longer useful ways, we should artificially inflate the cost of more efficient methods of providing goods to people, so that all the methods we have available are equally inefficient.
From a short-term perspective, keeping the jobs etc. sounds good. Long-term though, this sounds a bit like the broken window fallacy.
I just wonder, if the Australian retailers who are up in arms, would be happy to collect taxes for sales to US Citizens... whether theyre via the web, or actual foot traffic face to face customers... 'oh, youre American, thats an extra 9%... oh wait, youre from what state? thats 18% state tax too'... not a chance imo
Btw, Harvey Norman are trying to spearhead the same campaign in New Zealand
Why wont they lobby the other way round, to reduce the tax burden for themselves so they can compete on a fair ground with the online retailers?
How exactly does the consumer avoid paying sales tax? If you go into a shop and buy something the price includes tax on top of what ever mark-up the retailer puts on. Sales tax in the UK just went up from 17.5% to 20% and all retailers are passing that on to the consumer, even if they try to mask it with sales and offers.
Taxing overseas purchases is done with import duty and sales tax on imported items. The consumer pays the taxes.
Taxation really needs to be sorted out by going back to the principals rather than the current implementation. For example in the UK there is no sales tax on staple foods, children's clothing or books. There is however tax on electronic books. The principal is that books are vital for learning and an educated population is a good thing so they should be tax free. That should extend to all books on principal. Then again higher education isn't free any more so perhaps books should be taxed too, but either way there should be consistency. If shops have to charge sales tax so should online retailers.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
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On the face of it you'd be right, but the issue isn't that simple. A previous government set the GST thresholds to increasingly higher levels in the first few years after the GST introduction because they realised it was costing more to enforce the tax on these small imports than they were taking in.
The retailers are effectively asking for the government to put up artificial roadblocks for online shoppers. Since overseas retailers aren't going to collect taxes for the Aussie government the only way to work it would mean that everyone has to line up in a massive queue outside the post office on saturday morning to go in and pay some stupid little fee to retrieve their online shopping packages. Harvey and co. are hoping this artificial inconvenience will reduce the competition from online shopping - instead of them actually having to compete.
Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
Ahh the joy of an internet cafe.
It's really just a matter of whether or not you believe his reasons for speaking out on it, or the comments from others. He knows exactly what he might need to do, and I believe his reasons for not wanting to do it don't have anything to do with him making 'less' money because it's likely that he would make more.
So... your an all caps mocking poster then. Typical.
But please, I'm sure you can explain how it was Gerry Harvey that kills local competition and manufacturing, and not China's export economy.
Long time reader, first time poster.. I'd just like to point out a few things.. The Gerry Harvey(s) in this instance are all for wanting us Australians to pay for GST etc, but in reality what they're really whinging about is having to pay rent, super, public liability, company tax etc all masked under the guise of 'fair tax for all'... I've never heard him whinge for one moment before the leadup to christmas 2010 about this, when more and more people were buying online and the dollar was at parity with the US. I didn't hear him cry when Australian farmers ditched their crops into landfill because of cheaper imports, nor have I ever heard of him crying when Australian manufacturering went offshore to maximise his profits. 5 years ago, ordering online was the domain of young tech savvy users who were willing to take a chance on internet shopping russian roulette... Now we see a larger section of people, mums & dads, buying online and saving a bundle. I think the real issue however, is Australian importers and distributors. I've been told from someone who runs a rather large online camera store that if i was to buy a particular canon lens, that his buy price from canon is more expensive than what i can buy the same lens from an online store in the US. How can retailers honestly compete when distributors are charging so much more. I used to work in a gaming and media role, working with distributors on reviewing products. From time to time, i'd get to see wholesale pricelists of cds/dvds/games. New release dvds were sold at a wholesale level for $15-$19, with a RRP of $35-$40.. Or AAA gaming titles.. they'd be sold for $65-$70 at a wholesaler level, with RRP $99.95 - $119.95 RRP. Even when the dollar was at 50 US cents, to now parity, the cost of these goods has not changed. Distributors are pocketing the difference. I suppose its easier to attack customers and brand them as scum for not paying tax, when the real issue is higher up the chain. One can only hope that the ball is rolling and it snowballs into an avalache..
Hear hear to this... And not just pricing - this goes to the heart of retail in every country. Regional encoding of dvds, printer cartridges, mobile phone locking, tariffs...the list goes on. they're all about passing on the benefits of globalisation to the manufacturers and distributors - while deliberately making it difficult or impossible for the consumer to reap similar benefits.
You obviously don't understand GST credits. If I buy something at $40 wholesale and pay $4 in GST, when I sell it to you for $50 + $5 GST, I give the government $1 and claim a GST credit for the other $4 - it's not like the old wholesale taxes.
What the fuck? I've just checked them out and am flabergasted. You're probably right about the subsidy thing; the shipping alone would be more expensive than many of the items they sell.
The problem in cases like that is that the state doesn't provide any sort of reasonable way of paying. It should be collected by the retailer, but there again, they don't provide a reasonable way for the retailer to know how much to charge, and given the disparity and the ability of local taxing authorities to tack on extra sales tax, it ends up being a daunting challenge.
Imagine sending the state a check every time you bought something online, even if it were for a few dollars. One of the problems is that the amount of money that it would cost the state to collect those checks would easily cost the tax payers more than the actual tax for most purchases.
And, if you're looking for similar stuff, plus a lot of more "techie" items, then try out GoodLuckBuy.com.
Like DX, they include shipping in all their (very low) prices.
My only question is: who on earth chose that name?
It's Germany, they aren't exactly known for being loosy goosy with bureaucracy. It's not at all shocking that they'd be very by the book even if it's kind of silly. This is a bit like going to Italy and complaining because they don't know how to wait in lines.
This is exactly at the crux of the matter and should be rated more highly (and mentioned more often). The major retailers are bitching about an amazingly small minority of all purchases and simply want a tax to discourage people to even consider online shopping.
Here in New Zealand, any consignment which would attract a GST tax of less than NZ$50 is not taxed because collection costs would exceed the $50 to be collected.
However, when GST was recently increased from 12.5% to 15%, they also added an extra fee so that if your package does attract $50 or more of GST, you're also hit with about (from memory) another $28 or so as a "biosecurity fee" or something similar.
How on earth they deduce that only goods that have $50 or more of GST payable might represent a threat to our biosecurity I have no idea -- this is simply a cash-grab.
Of course with teh Chinese issuing fake (grossly undervalued) invoices left, right and center, there's no easy way for Customs to apply these taxes at the border so most stuff comes in tax-free, regardless of its value.
I have had friends who've imported $1,000 RC model aircraft that are 30% of full size. These arrive in *huge* boxes and include the 55cc engine. It has to be obvious that this stuff is worth *far* more than the $125 declared on the box - but it comes through without any GST being demanded.
When I wrote a column about this very subject last year it was suggested that the government simply add GST to all overseas credit-card transactions. Of course even that won't work -- because it would mean that those on holiday overseas would be paying tax on goods and services that came nowhere near our country's borders and would thus be patently unfair.
No easy way to solve this issue so let's just ditch the concept of duties and sales-taxes so everyone can enjoy the global shopping that is now available via the internet.
The problem is it isn't the consumers who really pay the tax, it's the retailers. How exactly do you propose that the government tax overseas retailers. I can think of a few options but each one of them forces me to think be careful what you wish for . What you and the retailers seem to support is not good for anybody at all except for the government.
Whoops. Me thinks you hav e no understanding of how our GST works. At the end of the day, the final consumer or purchaser of the goods *always* pays the 10% GST.
When a retailer or any wholesalers purchase any item, they pay 10% GST on that item.
When they on-sell the item (be it wholesale or retail), they charge the next person in the chain 10% GST. They then claim the 10% they paid back and pass on the difference to the Grubbermint.
For anyone involved in manufacture, wholesale, or retail, GST is so much easier and simpler than what we had before (wholesale sales-tax which climed to 22.5%). It is also harder for people to cheat. As a manufacturer, wholesaler, retailer, you never need to worry about GST. You pay it and get it back when you on-sell the item, so you don't need to factor GST into anything, because the end user pay it. It is really quite clean and simple.
If people import stuff directly, then Customs will charge them the 10% GST on the declared value. The Customs and Taxation departments have worked out that it is not worth their while to try to get the GST on items which are less than A$1,000- in value. Persumably because someone worked out tha tit costs them more than $100 to collect it. How they did that is beyond me, but it doesn't matter. The Australian Grubbermint does not need to charge the overseas retailer anything, they simply charge the person importing the goods. It really is plain and simple. So plain and simple, that even a moron like Gerrry should be able to understand it.
Gerry, his mate Solomon and the rest of the cronies trying to beat this up are just having a sulk because Australians aren't spending much money at the moment.
Their days of sucking people in with loss-leaders and high-interest interest-free deals are over. They've scammed all of those they can scam, and people are now taking a little longer and looking around. This might involve on-line stores, it might involve catalouges, it might even involve visting other shops. In some instances, people might choose to look overseas, but that would really be the minority.
Their huge markups (typically over 35%) for doing nothing other than employing morons who don't know shit from clay and lie to customers is starting to wear a little thin, but the number of people buying from overseas would be infintesimal. The savings aren't that great and it is a real pain with a high chance of getting ripped-off.
GST has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The specific problem in the UK comes from European law. VAT is covered by a treaty so that you can buy VAT-paid goods in one EU country and bring them to another without having to pay VAT in the destination. This is intended to gradually harmonise VAT rates, since it means that a country with a high VAT rate will lose out to imports from its neighbours. Signatories were allowed to keep their existing VAT exemptions, but are not allowed to add new ones without permission from Brussels.
(This post has some oversimplifications in it - I have a long letter somewhere from the Treasury explaining exactly what the rules are from when I complained about this issue to my MP a couple of years ago.)
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Remember the last election when the mining companies ran ads talking about how the mining super tax would hurt aussie jobs? A lot of aussies ate it up.
Yet some mining companies had their best years EVER for profits in 2010 - iirc one of them made about DOUBLE in profits than the prior term.
So I'm really not surprised that we're seeing this from other sectors as well. I hope Costco kicks ass on the east coast and spreads to all of the capital cities - I'm tired of paying stupidly high prices for basic items and never being able to buy anything in bulk. Honestly, who ever only needs 16 rolls of TP? Give me a 64 pack, a 100 pack, I don't care. I'm not going to stop using it anytime soon.
Sounds like a problem with Germany's implementation, rather than with the idea. In the UK, you get a note saying that it's been held at customs and have a few options for paying the VAT. Once this is done, it will be delivered. This is a standard service offered by the Royal Mail, but private couriers offer something similar. It is also possible for foreign companies that want to minimise delays when shipping to people in the UK to register with HMRC and collect the VAT at time of sale.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Yet, by them making a big deal about it, and them complaining how cheap stuff is online, that's like the perfect endorsement for online shopping. Idiots!
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
I honestly don't know how they do it. And then in this thread I've also been pointed to http://www.goodluckbuy.com/ which seems to be a similar deal, only they list prices in AUD if you want...
Re: DX - don't expect everything you buy to be exactly as advertised - read the comments threads. Don't expect much in the way of customer support too - it never hurts to try, but sometimes you won't get very far... Take it for what it's worth!
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
i see this as the foremost excuse that private interests use to push bullshit for themselves. now whenever i see any justification using that 'jobs' bullshit, i label it as crap being pushed by private interests and disregard whatever it is attached to.
Read radical news here
The problem is it isn't the consumers who really pay the tax, it's the retailers. How exactly do you propose that the government tax overseas retailers. I can think of a few options but each one of them forces me to think be careful what you wish for . What you and the retailers seem to support is not good for anybody at all except for the government.
And where exactly is your problem here?
I am German, our VAT is generally 19% on all purchases, in stores and on the internet. Where non-physical goods like software downloads are sold from foreign retailers to German customers, foreign retailers have to collect the tax for the German state - and they do so, to save their customers the hassle of tax fraud investigations (a whole different issue here: German tax authorities can investigate your bank account at any time).
Where physical goods enter the country, our customs office relies on the declaration form and sends invoices to the recipient, or stops the goods and tries to find out their sales price (you'll have to produce an eBay printout, whatever).
So, with enough regulatory power this is a non-issue.
I see your point, though: It's liberty. While I believe having the same tax rate on online and store purchases is a good thing, I do think that Germany's solution to ensure compliance is way over the top for any respectable free society.
Please, don't export the US tax system. We want it less than you do. Even your statements show that it doesn't work and is unfair... large parts of the rest of the world put the onus on the retailer to collect the taxes. In the case of imports, the carriers (FedEx, postal service, person arriving on a plane, etc) have to work with customs, who charge the taxes. Much better than a voluntary system that is clearly abused.
I have had friends who've imported $1,000 RC model aircraft that are 30% of full size. These arrive in *huge* boxes and include the 55cc engine.
Are you guys starting an airline or something? If not that then maybe your UAVs could be used to evade Australian GST.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
The problem is it isn't the consumers who really pay the tax, it's the retailers.
The retailers have to add 10% GST to their sale price. They get a deduction of GST from their costs. How exactly do they get stuck with paying the GST?
Any GST they can't offset they pay to the Government at the end of the quarter.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
when I visited australia I learned that you guys have an absolutely and compltely utterly insane level of sales tax on anything which isn't food.
books, videos etc cost a minimum of twice as much in AU as my home country in europe.
It's the government scamming you, not the stores.
that is completely and utterly incorrect. Most of the online retailers are also traditional bricks and mortar stores and operate out of the same warehouses for those. Gerry harvey and Co have completely and utterly ignored the online market as they have found their isolation has allowed them blissfull ignorance to overcharge, you only have to have a look at the pathetic online pressence of the big players. The true irony here is that Gerry/Myers etc drove most of the small retailers out of business all the while saying it isn't there fault that they are able to take advantage of bulk buying and centralised warehousing, now the shoe is on the other foot and they are crying like babies (multi billionare babies that is).
A lot of this happened in the 80's and 90's in OZ,
My Uncle used to own an independent supermarket until Foodland started using standover tactics until he sold it to them (basically became a franchisee, but a bit more comlpex, he sold the store but remained manager in the service of Foodland which I believe are now part of IGAD, the least evil of the three big supermarket chains). This was two decades ago, there are damn few indies left in the entire country.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
"However - tax on overseas is already what is applied to products entering Europe. VAT and customs fee is added by the customs office."
I don't know where you live, but I haven't paid any VAT and custom online, and I buy a lot outside the EU. The last time I paid VAT online was when I bought a couple of jeans on Compuserve before the Web was invented.
His stated reasons are:
"Retail giants Myer, David Jones and Target also want the threshold removed, saying the Government has a responsibility to keep profits and jobs in Australia."
So it's the governments job to keep profits in Oz, when these are the retailers who sold manufacturing to China.
All this aside, what Harvey and co are proposing is nothing less then protectionism, which has never been proven to be economically beneficial.
Sarcasm is just one of the services I offer.
See what me and the AC wrote. Also, check your house for things that are Australian made. Doing a quick inventory of the room I'm in, my PC is from Korea, Japan and Taiwan, my fan and A/C are from China, My monitor and TV are from Korea (Samsung, top quality IMHO), Bicycle helmet from Hong Kong, Hard Drive and several tailored shirts from Thailand, Adidas deodorant made in UK, Motorola phone from China, LTD M10 guitar made in China, Colgate toothpaste from Mexico. Need I go on, I'm just glad the meat I've got in the fridge comes from Aussie farms (oblig, best farms in the world) although the milk is shipped from the other side of the bloody country. Not that I'm entirely deriding this, I do enjoy the cheaper prices from imported goods but for HN, Myer et al who not only made this possible but promoted it to turn around and demand protection from the government now their business is facing competition it more then a bit hypocritical. I'm not a liberatard but this is one of those times where I'll let the free market sort it out.
Cmon mate, the s/z thing should be second nature for anyone who's past year 5 (and I'm bit on the dyslexic side myself) but this is like leaving the u out of favourite.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The sales tax is only 10%, which is hardly insane. The base cost for almost anything is a lot higher due to Australia's smaller, isolated market. If anyone's profiteering, its the importers and distributors, not the government or end retailers.
10% and the previous regime was a lot different. Software was 0%. Hardware was 22% Luxuries like flavoured milk and cosmetics were ~30%. If you were in the right business you could get a tax exemption by filling in a bunch of paperwork. Computer hardware required two separate registration numbers because people were rorting the first one.
Also note, sales tax is federal. The states get their cut from that 10%.
Getting 198 countries to agree on anything is quite difficult.
Not to mention that lots of packages I receive have 'Gift' or 'Specimen without any value' printed on the box.
If Gerry Harvey had stayed away from Ruslan Kogan, I wouldn't have even looked at his site. He gets the odd mention in APC but that never raised my interest. I think Gerry may have learned his lesson this time.
GST is only 10% and some books are not hit with it. The reason books are so expensive is there is a local publishing cartel that is anything but competitive. The laugh is even if the 10% GST is added it wont hide the fact that local retailers have a 400% markup on some goods and on-line resellers usually have a 15-80% markup.
The less competitive firms argue for protectionism, rather than offer decent online shopping sites.
I buy from Australian sites when they are worthwhile: when they offer service and choice. I have bought mobile phones and Android tablets from Australian websites, because they had local warranties, faster delivery, and a decent range of items at competitive prices.
With books and CDs, it is often better to buy from overseas, where the range is much wider. And anyway, the books I want are just not available in Australia.
I am anarch of all I survey.
I've been wondering about that, as a new migrant to Australia. Would it be legal to set up a store selling imported books or is there some ridiculous grey market thing?
The print adverts are claiming that if the amount remains the same, Australian jobs will be lost and the economy will be harmed.
No, inefficient Australian jobs will be reassigned to other, more efficient sectors of the economy, and thus the Australian economy as a whole will be improved and more efficient.
But yeah, keep crying in the hope that dumb politicians will prop up your obsolete and wasteful business model. There is hope for you, if the MAFIAA are any guide. Tax and penalize the efficient and subsidize the shopkeeper and his minimum wage slaves who force you to waste time and fuel traveling to the store. Because paying people to stand around and give customers dirty looks is a wonderful use of labor and capital.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
DealExtreme is actually a really good example of this problem, in that everything I've ordered from them has had a fraudulent customs declaration (either too low value, or 'gift'). I've considered trying to remedy it, and I'm sure that correcting it would be simple, but it requires me to get off the couch to pay someone money for something I already have, so the motivation isn't very strong and I end up forgetting.
In theory, they should already be collecting tax on overseas purchases. In practice, there's a real problem this law would fail to solve.
I stand corrected.
most people I talked to there seemed convinced it was because of taxes but by the sound of it the stores are scamming you guys.
You've missed the point if you think it's only about the country. You get people like that everywhere as soon as any government brings in such stupid policies.
There have even been times where if you wanted a mid-range or high-end MacBook Pro, it'd be cheaper to fly to the USA, walk into an Apple store, buy the computer and fly home than it would have been to purchase the same machine here in Australia.
If I could cover my expenses and spend a week at the beach, I'd volunteer to cram two suitcases with laptops and fly to Australia.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
The "very patriotic" bit is another clue that you are from the good old USA yawl. We know he very definitely isn't (I don't think I could find a single Australian made product for sale in any of his shops, furniture included) but really don't give a shit about that aspect anyway. We've had so many confidence tricksters, corrupt politicians and other criminals wrap themselves in the flag that the only businessman that can really get away with it without too many people laughing at him is Dick Smith - and that's only because he doesn't quite shove it in your face.
Also, you want us to blame China for Gerry Harvey importing goods from China? Did you think about that before writing at all?
In Argentina the Tax Free ship import value is of U$S 5. Anything over that has a 50% tax over the total cost. For people traveling, the Tax Free import value is of U$S 300.
They could charge an import tax, the same as they already do for imports over $AU 1000.
The problem with doing this, aside from pissing off consumers, is that, unless you want to go for voluntary declarations the way out of state online purchases in the US (don't) work, it costs more money to collect the import tax on a $100 order than it actually generates. That would mean that this whole thing would turn into a government subsidy for Australian retailers. Nothing necessarily wrong with that governments subsidize industries all the time. What they don't tend to do is piss off voters for no real reason. People are sufficiently pissed about this idea that Gerry Harvey who is one of the biggest loud mouths on the planet is trying to lower his profile. The government might take the hit to make cash like they did on GST, but doing this would be a huge loss of both cash and public support, not going to happen.
You obviously haven't tried to buy online at Harvey Norman. It is easier to go into the store, 600km away.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
During the 00's and 90's, the tax break was useful to help build up the net. Now, the net is built up. It is time for nations to balance their budget esp. western nations.
What is needed is to avoid the insanity of multiple taxing districts. Instead, I would love to see ONE rate applied to all goods and then allow the nation of destination to decide how to divvy it up.
A 5% given to the nation would work. Here in the USA, we could keep 1% at the feds and then send 4% to the state and allow those states to decide how to deal with it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That is the whole point of this, most online retails will just stop selling to Australia forcing you to go back to shop fronts.
Come on. they only passed on savings when there was competition in town.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
While this does appear to be spam I think it deserves +funny.
No - but I usually get a VAT/customs invoice when fetching the delivery at the postal delivery point.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Actually from this month they are allowed to add new exemptions. I emailed my MP about it, waiting for a reply.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Even Gerry Harvey (one of the big Australian retailers) used the argument that his wife bought a dress online for $100, that would have cost her $170 in Australia.
The GST is only 10%, not 70%.
Is 1563649 a prime number?
I'll start giving Australian retailers some sympathy when they stop supporting the monopolistic practices of overseas companies that see our region get charged more for goods than they do in other "markets" overseas. In my opinion these artificial markets have no place in the Internet economy and I will happily buy things from overseas from other regions if its cheaper. Good old US dollar parity.
Every few months I purchase computer bits and pieces from Europe (think retro computers and the likes, new and used) which no one in Australia sells or manufactures. If no one in Australia carries what I need to purchase, why should this extra tax apply to these items? It's not like I am going to be able to buy them locally in the first place.
Over the years I have come to accept that a lot of consumer products cost more in Australia than in many other European countries and America but it just feels as though the people with the money want to try and squeeze even more out of the masses.
if anybody was wondering if "rorting" was a typo(Google sure thinks it is), apparently it is an Australian word for "scamming" or "taking advantage of". Presumably taken from the name of a politician who did a lot of that.
They've picked up the US polticians standard line. If we don't do this US jobs will be lost and the economy will suffer. I cannot count how many times that's been used here to justify the most obscene spending bills, creation of absurd laws, etc.
What I find funny is that some orders I put in just at the start of the whole furor appear to have been delayed by between 5-10 business days due to "unprecedented demand for airfreight capacity into Australia". It appears that Gerry has just made everybody realise that things are cheaper online, so everybody went out and bought stuff :P
Aussies 1 Gerry 0
Cheers, Chris
They've picked up the US polticians standard line. If we don't do this US jobs will be lost and the economy will suffer. I cannot count how many times that's been used here to justify the most obscene spending bills, creation of absurd laws, etc.
They didn't need to "pick it up" from the US... they've been pulling the same BS here for decades.
Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.
Wow, I thought rort and derivatives were generic English terms; global.
I would, however, expect rort to be decended from cockney rather than an obscure surname. In fact, a couple of online sources* suggest it is from an 19th century London term: rorty > "boisterous or rowdy, saucy, dissipated, or risqué".
Not sure where you came up with the political surname gig. Wait! Relying on presumptions will rort knowledge.
* yes there were more reputable sources, I just got bored.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
http://www.homelessnessinfo.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=703%3Ain-the-news-charity-for-the-homeless-a-waste-says-gerry-harvey&catid=146%3Ahomelessness-news&Itemid=43
'You could go out and give a million dollars to a charity tomorrow to help the homeless. You could argue that it is just wasted. They are not putting anything back into the community. It might be a callous way of putting it but what are they doing? You are helping a whole heap of no-hopers to survive for no good reason. They are just a drag on the whole community.'
The community attitude is 'Gerry Harvey can go to hell'!
strange... I always thought the GST was actually paid by the end purchaser, not the retailer who merely collected it for the government. most businesses are allowed to claim the GST back as an expense, but the end purchaser couldn't claim it unless they had an ABN or ACN.
I am assuming that Harvey Norman et al. get their goods from overseas for cheaper than what we can get them for, but end up marking the price up so much, that people are forced to go looking elsewhere to buy. (overseas in some cases) the current stats show that less than 3% of australians shop online with an overseas company... the rest who buy online shop with australian online stores... who pay the GST on all goods they sell. The next thing I expect from them is to demand the government put another tax on smaller competitors to stop people from shopping there. we shouldn't be harrassed into protecting their slack business practices via a tax or similar surcharge.
In the good old US of A Amazon charges sales tax on purchases. Has anyone seen a brick and mortar Amazon store that I don't know about? Other online stores only charge tax in states they have a physical presence in, but Amazon just turned belly up.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Yeah you're right I should say it's unfair to Aussie online retailers as well, but that's the point the Aussie retailers have to pay GST on any goods they sell you. It's nice not to pay tax, but it would also be nice to have a tax system not structured in such a way that it puts Australian businesses at a disadvantage over their overseas competitors and potentially forces them and the jobs they create off shore.
Either you're charging GST on every purchase or your not.
For the record I don't think this will rescue Harvey Norman or Myer or anyone. They're price gouging arseholes, but I don't think the government should be taxing some business and not others.
The problem is it isn't the consumers who really pay the tax, it's the retailers. How exactly do you propose that the government tax overseas retailers. I can think of a few options but each one of them forces me to think be careful what you wish for . What you and the retailers seem to support is not good for anybody at all except for the government.
My only thought is that I sympathise with the small retailers for example people like Umart and the likes, but what gets up my goat is that someone small like Umart will sell a product for say $70 when Harvey Norman is selling it for $100. Then HN still have the nerve to bitch and moan when we go on eBay and the likes and order our product for $60. I do honestly feel for the small guys who are missing out because of the competitiveness of the overseas sales coming through but I can't feel the same way towards the big guys. And yet they are the only ones the Media care to listen to. I try to support the smaller guys all the time and I find it sad that they sell stuff dirt cheap to get turn over because not only are they competing with the Harvey Normans but they are also competing with Overseas. cheers
I think we simply don't have the population to support more competition. Not enough people to buy enough stuff to support more retailers, and so on. Gerry Harvey can cry on someone else's shoulder - he just HATES competition.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
Illegal. Apparently, if the same book is available from an Aussie publisher, it's a criminal offence to parallel import it. Or something like that.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Amazon has a physical presence in some states. Basically, look to see if Amazon has what they call a "Nexus" there - it's basically a gigantic warehouse and shipping hub, where they send orders from. If they have one of these in your state, they charge tax. Otherwise, they don't.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
I live in a country with a population similar to that of Sydney only spread out more and we pay less than half what you do for games even after our own 21% VAT is added.
there's plenty of population to support more competition in AU.
You're lucky. The last purchase I made from DX took over a month to get to me. But then that could have something to do with being in Far West NSW, the post is sometimes a bit slow out here. But still; 1 and a half months is shocking for such a small delivery IMO...
That aside I do love DX. I've found some great bargains there. Sometimes the quality leaves a lot to be desired but at such low prices you can't complain.