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Pot Grower's Privacy Challenged

damaged_sectors writes "A map marking what are supposed to be secret locations of 60 warehouses and other buildings where medical marijuana is grown in Boulder has accidentally been made public by the city. Officials say an 'oversight' led them to publish the map on the city's Web site. Kathy Haddock, Boulder's senior assistant city attorney who advises the council on medical marijuana issues, said Thursday that the map would be removed from the city's Web site. No conspiracy here folks. In other news the council will decide at its Jan. 18 meeting whether Boulder should circumvent the open records act exemption for cultivation centers by requiring applicants for medical marijuana business licenses to waive their right to privacy. The council could force all growing centers to sign such a waiver as a condition of receiving a city-issued business license. While the risk this would make it easier for Federal authorities to raid grow-ops might not concern council members and others opposed to medical marijuana — I have to wonder what sort of mentality thinks exposing growers to the very real risk of armed robbery by criminals is justifiable."

45 of 477 comments (clear)

  1. Let's put it up on Wikileaks by lseltzer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Governments should't be keeping secrets

    1. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nor should their citizens need a license to grow a plant.

    2. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      srsly, mods - a 0? a plant is a plant.

      the government should be protecting citizens rights, not eliminating them.

      regardless of the speculation about negative longterm effects (which are not founded in scientific research), the plant can grow almost fucking anywhere. someone can toss a seed in your yard and it will grow. would you want to be arrested for that?

    3. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nor should their citizens need a license to grow a plant.

      They absolutely should if it's prescription medicine.

      I think you need a prescription for some high-grade woooosh!

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by uncqual · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Absolutely. However, don't ask a public or private ER to treat you at their or taxpayer's expense when you snort crystal drain cleaner. Don't expect food stamps or welfare from taxpayers when you make stupid choices that make you un/underemployed. Don't expect even medicare to take care of ailments that are likely traceable to such stupid decisions.

      I agree completely with you, but there are two sides to the coin. On one there is personal freedom, on the other is personal responsibility and accountability. Pick both or neither.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    5. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by mweather · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Absolutely. However, don't ask a public or private ER to treat you at their or taxpayer's expense when you snort crystal drain cleaner.

      So long as they also refuse to treat the obese, or those engaging in contact sports and other dangerous lifestyle choices.

    6. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by 2.7182 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. Just as to be an organ recipient, you should be listed as an organ donor.

    7. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by fishexe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nor should their citizens need a license to grow a plant.

      They absolutely should if it's prescription medicine.

      Growing a plant that can be used to produce prescription medicine doesn't require a license.

      If pot were legalized then I would agree with you, but medicinal marijuana != legalized marijuana.

      It's not, but it's technically not a prescription drug either. It's still against federal law and federal law provides for prosecution of medicinal marijuana as well as recreational marijuana. Given that, your argument basically boils down to "It absolutely should be illegal because it is illegal. If it were legal I would agree with you that it should be legal."

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    8. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by VortexCortex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Absolutely. However, don't ask a public or private ER to treat you at their or taxpayer's expense when you snort crystal drain cleaner. Don't expect food stamps or welfare from taxpayers when you make stupid choices that make you un/underemployed. Don't expect even medicare to take care of ailments that are likely traceable to such stupid decisions.

      OK, wait... four words: Lung Cancer and Alcoholics.

      In addition: Don't try learning to ice skate! Everyone falls a few times while doing so -- It's stupid to think you'll be the only one not to fall down! Insurance & Medicare should be denied to people who are stupid enough to strap blades to their feet and travel unnaturally fast on slippery surfaces. (IMHO, Hockey is safer than Figure Skating -- The latter should wear protective gear.)

      I agree completely with you, but there are two sides to the coin.

      Likewise!

      On one there is personal freedom, on the other is personal responsibility and accountability. Pick both or neither.

      This is a false dichotomy! One can be both personally responsible, and a fool. One can be both free and restricted by laws.

      Not all drugs are created equal. I would place marijuana somewhere between Tobacco and Alcohol -- Both of which are already legal.

      Let us not forget that prohibition allowed the mobsters to use illegal alcohol profits to fuel their wars. Remember this when you consider the drug cartel wars that Mexico is experiencing.

      The answer is simple -- Tax it and regulate recreational drugs, prohibition only funds the terrorists while draining our resources via a futile fight to preserve the ban.

    9. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What constitutes a dangerous lifestyle choice? In terms of injuries, running and jogging are just about the most dangerous things that anybody does. Probably the only things worse are things that people do for the express purpose of harming themselves.

    10. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Jerry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The answer is simple -- Tax it and regulate...
      Exactly!

      Thousands are being murdered annually because of the demand for Marijuana in the US. In one fell swoop we could clean out our prisons of people who shouldn't have been sent there, shut down the Mexican and American drug lords, and find a new source of taxes. We could also renew research on medical uses of Marijuana, especially Rick Simpson's discovery that it may be a cure for Cancer (see YouTube). Medical Marijuana is not a myth. The US Gov patented almost two dozen medical uses for it. See patent # 6630507.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    11. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Jerry · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So is alcohol. I suspect more people are killed by drunks than by the stoned.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    12. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given that, your argument basically boils down to "It absolutely should be illegal because it is illegal. If it were legal I would agree with you that it should be legal."

      I've come to understand that for a, surprisingly large, portion of the population, that is exactly the way they think. It's like they have no concept that it is the duty of the citizenry to judge the law.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    13. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On one there is personal freedom, on the other is personal responsibility and accountability.

      I used to believe that, when I was 12. The longer I live, the more I realize that life is a lottery - you can make all the best choices and be absolutely screwed, and you can screw off and do grossly irresponsible things and be rewarded for them like a King.

      Odds are better that you will do well if you "follow the path" - you've got maybe 60% chance of being "average," but I know way too many people who have followed that responsible path just to be kicked to the gutter by things totally out of their control.

      On the other hand, it is all to easy to throw yourself in the gutter - we are all presented with hundreds of opportunities to do so every day. It's a miracle that there is anything resembling civilization at all, considering how easy it is to screw it up.

    14. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, depending on the metrics used, alcohol may be considered like the most harmful drug on the streets or just below heroin and cocain. Cannabis is lower than tobacco and LSD even lower than that.

      http://www.mapinc.org/lib/LancetFigure1.gif

      http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2010/nov/02/alcohol_more_harmful_heroin_or_c

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    15. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3

      Citation needed.

    16. Re:Let's put it up on Wikileaks by shiftless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All bullshit. For every one of those studies I can show you why it's flawed or why it can't be trusted because it is a GOVERNMENT FUNDED STUDY. The government doesn't fund ANYONE to study pot unless they intend to show it causes harmful effects.

      Physical dependence is bullshit. Nobody (except quite possibly a TINY PERCENTAGE of users) develops physical dependence to marijuana.

      In regards to psychosis, a study in a British journal recently found that is a flawed assertion.

      In regards to emphysema, Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA studied marijuana and tobacco smokers for over 20 years, and found that smoking marijuana slightly REDUCED chances of developing lung cancer or emphysema.

      Got any more pearls of wisdom you'd like to share with us ignorant pot smokers?

  2. OK, so I don't know the whole story... by scribblej · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But let's compare to some other businesses. Banks, for instance, are businesses that are often targeted by criminals. They - OH MY GOD - list their addresses publically! I feel the bank's right to privacy has been violated here. Not only that, but how can the banks survive now that the criminals know where they are?! OMG!

    Seriously, people. If you legalize the growing of marijuana, it's just like any other product now. You want to run a respectable business, then do it. If you are concerned about security, do what any other company concerned about security would do, put down the pipe, and GET SOME SECURITY.

    1. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh you.... Bringing all that common sense and logic to slashdot. Have you yourself been smoking some of this medicine perhaps?

      *sips coffee*

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      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    2. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm fairly sure that banks choose to advertise their places of business, rather than having them helpfully outed by the local government...

      Further, while retail establishments, banking and otherwise, are made as public as possible for obvious reasons, it is quite common for actors in a wide variety of legitimate industries to be somewhat cagey about the locations and precise purposes of their various "back office" facilities. Keeps security costs lower, provides less information to competitors, and so forth. Most of this stuff isn't truly "secret"(in the sense that it is nothing a PI or decent reporter couldn't dig up with a bit of work); but there are tens, probably hundreds, of thousands of industrial parks and office complexes around the country, often gated and typically deliberately understated, quietly doing assorted stuff, under the (small) placards of various corporations that may or may not be under some other umbrella entirely. In addition to static facilities, things like shipments of cash, high-value consumer or industrial goods, hazardous chemicals, and pharmaceuticals are quite commonly done quietly. Again, not secret; but the local government sure doesn't "accidentally" reveal the time and route that the next shipment of medical opiates is going to be taking into the local oncology hospice...

      Obviously, this isn't the end of the world; but conflating retail and backend operations is pretty misleading.

    3. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by blackraven14250 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Banks have security measures that are highly effective and widely used. A small-scale grow operation implementing the level of security used at the average bank would have no funds with which to do anything else.

      You have to remember, these are very small scale operations. An average bank is dealing with literally thousands of times more revenue than these operations, and doing so with a limited footprint compared to a grow operation, which makes it easier to protect with bulletproof acrylic, cameras, a security guard, and a gigantic 2-foot-thick vault with a tiny amount of floor space for holding 99% of the cash and valuables. You can't grow this stuff inside of a vault like that - otherwise you're looking at a warehouse sized, multi-billion-dollar vault, with the potential to produce maybe a million or two in income yearly.

      By the way, banks don't have their information published by the state, as you're insinuating they do. They choose to publicize it themselves (for obvious reasons). They can keep their location confidential if they wish.

    4. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by Peeteriz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In addition to the other security features, some extra additional obscurity only helps. In physical world much more so than digital, though.

    5. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 5, Informative

      They - OH MY GOD - list their addresses publically!

      ...not the addresses of their currency distribution facilities or data centres they don't. I live near the processing centre of a large bank. The place doesn't have a sign, front door, receptionist, anything - Just armoured cars coming and going.

    6. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Informative

      How do you feel about The Drug Companies? Should *they* be able to hide the locations of their pharmaceutical plants from the public?

      Look, if these folks want to be in the *BUSINESS* of manufacturing marijuana, they need to take the same types of precautions as the plan that makes Oxycodone.

      And, according to one guy quoted in the story (yes, I RTFA, did you?), that's exactly his attitude: He doesn't care because he's got security.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    7. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by stonewallred · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I do work for a business in my town. It has a emergency generator, a secondary generator for HVAC/R and lights, and a tertiary generator for the -30F freezer. The stuff in the walk-in cooler (36F), the walk-in freezer (0F) and the other walk-in freezer(-30) (reachable only by going through the cooler and 0F freezer) are all small boxes and insulated containers marked with bio-hazard symbols. They keep a rotating temp chart that if it varies by more than 3F in an hour period, they call me for immediate service and inspection. And when I asked them what was in the boxes, they said "stuff". When I asked abut the temp requirements, they said the "stuff" gets unstable above 40F. The company name is very generic. The staff, about 30 or so, don't wear name tags. There checks are drawn on a local bank. And when I google them, there is no information other than their phone number and address. That's the "I don't know the whole frickin story" I am interested in. Oh, and they have never questioned any of my bills, or prices. I show up, verify the equipment is functioning within parameters (Amp draw, operating pressures, etc) and give them a bill. They write me a check then and there, no matter if it is 2pm on a Monday, or 3am on Christmas Eve (yeah, called me three years ago because the temp varied by 4 degrees F at approximately 11pm.)

    8. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Funny

      I can't decide whether the outfit you describe is more likely to be on a federal watch list or a federal supplier list...

    9. Re:OK, so I don't know the whole story... by stonewallred · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mostly white, 30-40 year old appearing staff. Everyone polite, and well spoken, but not talkative. No extremes, as in no ultra-short haircuts, but no pony tails and piercing either. No visible tats on anyone, and, which is strange, no secretary nor any place for a secretary. There is a front door, locked with blinds over it, a side door, a loading bay door and a enclosed ramp with the entrance door at the side of the building. And I live in a fairly Podunk town, in the south. Been doing the work there for almost 12 years, after a former boss closed shop and recommended me to them for their service needs. On the article topic, I have built three grow rooms for "customers" and helped another guy design one, and supplied him with all the equipment, but he built it himself at his private location. A large walk-in cooler shell, with a AC system, makes an excellent grow room, and prevents most of the odor problems.

  3. businesses have little "right to privacy" by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I support medical cannabis -- indeed, I support the end of all drug prohibition laws. But how is there a "right to privacy" any more than for any other pharmacetuical? Every pharmacy has stuff with more street value than weed, yet the locations of licensed pharmacies are public records, aren't they?

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  4. Re:"Medical marijuana" is such a scam by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An even bigger scam is the pretext they use to prop up prohibition.

    Count deMonet

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  5. Not an Issue by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a former Boulder resident, I challenge anyone who thinks this is a privacy issue to find any address in Boulder where they aren't growing pot. It's as "legal" there as it is anywhere.

  6. Re:"Medical marijuana" is such a scam by jav1231 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apparently smoking a bong, while desensitizing you to pain and making you feel generally euphoric, still allows the absorption of leftist talking points. Interesting.

    Eh, at least it keeps you from any job more technically challenging than filling a fry bag...or emptying a Doritos bag.

  7. Re:Questions by Cwix · · Score: 3, Informative

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html

    Quote:

    "We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use," he said. "What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect." ...

    Earlier work established that marijuana does contain cancer-causing chemicals as potentially harmful as those in tobacco, he said. However, marijuana also contains the chemical THC, which he said may kill aging cells and keep them from becoming cancerous.

    --
    You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  8. Let's be clear - this is a business license by vinn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's be clear - this is a business license. The city is well within their right to place requirements on a business as part of a business license application. Now, the term used here was waive their "right to privacy", but this is almost certainly not what the city ordinance will say. The ordinance will likely say that inspections can be done to ensure compliance with state law as well as for public safety reasons to make sure that there isn't a fire danger.

    I'm not sure what the intentions of Boulder are, but we just got done crafting our own city ordinances for our small town in Montana. I think we did a fantastic job and one of the key objectives of writing it was to set up the guidelines under which the business license could be issued. The other major concern was zoning. At no time did any of us think, "Oh, we gotta collect all this information so we can do a raid." We collected it because a) it's the same information we collect for other businesses and b) there are some special concerns related to public safety and it would be completely irresponsible to to ignore those. For example, we require a security system and an inspection to make sure one was installed.

    --
    ----- obSig
  9. Disabled man gets a visit to an Amsterdam prostitu by Cwix · · Score: 5, Informative

    The danish can:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/1499735/Taxpayers-foot-bill-for-disabled-Danes-visits-to-prostitutes.html

    In a move that has provoked angry protests but has delighted the country's legalised sex industry, the Danish government has launched an information campaign advising the disabled how best to go about obtaining erotic services.

    ...

    In Aarhus, the second-largest city, disabled residents have been told that they may visit a brothel or call a male or female prostitute to their home once a month and pass the bill - which can be up to £300 - on to the state.

    --
    You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  10. Re:"Medical marijuana" is such a scam by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 5, Informative

    How is the parent post flamebait? It's true. The only reason we have prohibition is because it helps certain people (like DEA and their goons) remain in power and profit. Under our current laws, dangerous radicals like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams would be thrown in a federal prison. The whole medical marijuana thing might have whatever problems, but much worse than anything associated with it is the fact that lives are being ruined because a someone scumbag likes sucking up taxpayers dollars to screw over honest law abiding citizens.

  11. Re:Questions by cold+fjord · · Score: 3, Informative

    On the other hand...

    Long-Time Marijuana Use Linked to Psychosis in Young Adults

    Young adults who used marijuana as teens were more likely than those who didn’t to develop schizophrenia and psychotic symptoms including hallucinations and delusions, an Australian study found.

    Those who used the drug for six or more years were twice as likely to develop a psychosis such as schizophrenia or to have delusional disorders than those who never used marijuana, according to research released online by the Archives of General Psychiatry. They were also four times as likely to score high on a list of psychotic-like experiences.

    The findings build on previous research and shows that marijuana use isn’t as harmless as some people think, lead study author John McGrath said yesterday in an e-mail. The study was the first to look at sibling pairs to discount genetic or environmental influence and still find marijuana linked to later psychosis, the authors said in the study.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  12. what, are you high? by alienzed · · Score: 5, Informative

    Classic propaganda from someone who obviously has no direct contact with anyone who actually consumes the stuff. The people I know who do consume it are more caring and intelligent than those I see constantly opposing it's existence. but.... haters gonna hate.

    --
    Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
    1. Re:what, are you high? by jav1231 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Bob!? Is that you? Of course not. You have no idea who I am. Let me "learn ya." At the age of 7 I had already been exposed to marijuana. An older sibling who had traded joints for cigs and remained a user for some 40 years discovered that it was easier to babysit me, and thus fulfill his mandate from my single mother of taking me where ever he went so she could work to support 6 children, if I were stoned. Sitting me in front of the stereo stoned out of my mind, I was allowed to direct the party's music. (As a side I developed a keen sense what constitutes good music, but I digress.) Additionally, my brother-in-law by that time was a huge user and dealer as were many in my immediate and distant family. I'd seen more J in my first ten years than most would see in their life. So while you sit behind your keyboard smug in your anonymity, you might stop and at least check the "someone who" assumptions.

  13. Re:Either Legalize it or Continue Prohibition by uniquename72 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Medicine" doesn't come in "joints".

    No, it comes in brownies and rice crispy treats.

  14. Decriminalize it by crumbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And this becomes a non-issue. After all liquor stores publicize their locations. After all liquor is a more addictive, more harmful drug by orders of magnitude yet it is regulated and legal.

  15. Re:"Medical marijuana" is such a scam by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Eh, at least it keeps you from any job more technically challenging than filling a fry bag...or emptying a Doritos bag.

    My father, who has smoked pot for 50+ years, is a retired math professor.

    Now me? I work for the Feds, mostly sitting on my ass doing nothing. I don't use marijuana.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  16. Re:"Medical marijuana" is such a scam by fishexe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Medical marijuana" is just a scam. 60 "grow facilities" in Boulder, Colorado? Four times as many "dispensaries" in San Jose as 7-11s?.

    Maybe four times as many people need pot as need slurpees. It's an effective treatment for a vast array of common conditions such as chronic anxiety, ADHD, nausea, or just everyday aches and pains. It's not just for the terminally ill. While most states with medical marijuana laws restrict it to only the most severe cases, California allows it for any condition a doctor feels justified in prescribing it for.

    If it's to be treated as a medical treatment, it should be moved to Schedule II or III, prescribed by doctors, and distributed through pharmacies.

    You're right, it should. The only thing standing in the way is the federal government.

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  17. Re:"Medical marijuana" is such a scam by BarefootClown · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now me? I work for the Feds, mostly sitting on my ass doing nothing.

    Ladies and gentlemen, your tax dollars at work.

    --

    "Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
    --Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca

  18. Re:"Medical marijuana" is such a scam by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now me? I work for the Feds, mostly sitting on my ass doing nothing.

    Ladies and gentlemen, your tax dollars at work.

    Ah, but the parts of the day I actually *am* doing something are very productive. And, as a former Fire Fighter, I can tell you that *most* of my day usually did not involve anything more strenuous than wiping down the truck.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  19. Re:Questions by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Does one tenuous correlation to a very small increase in a very small risk really justify jailing thousands of otherwise mild mannered and productive people?

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