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Assange Could Face Execution Or Guantanamo Bay
An anonymous reader writes "WikiLeaker-in-chief Julian Assange faces the real danger of being executed or languishing in the US prison camp at Guantánamo Bay if, as a result of his extradition to Sweden, he ends up in the hands of the Americans, his lawyers argue. In a skeleton summary of Assange's defence, posted online, Assange's lawyers argue that it is likely that the US would seek his extradition 'and/or illegal rendition' from Sweden. In the United States 'there will be a real risk of him being detained at Guantánamo Bay or elsewhere,' his lawyers write."
Of course his attorneys are doing whatever they can to prevent him shipping out. Is this news?
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If he's dubbed a terrorist by the US government...
I'm not saying it's good that America does these things. I have a tremendous sense of schadenfreude about the American government feeling some pain for its indefinite detention and torturing. As an American, I'm disgusted that my government has betrayed our ideals, but I also know that as one person I'm very unlikely to effect change. Maybe Assange can take our government to task more effecitively than any normal American citizen could.
Actually, the USG not liking someone is exactly why that person might end up in Gitmo. Circumventing the legal system is what makes Gitmo useful to the government.
I'll believe that when I see it.
Its more likely that nobody will open their mouths, then a bunch of senators will get pizzas delivered to them that they didn't order.
Yeah, because it is impossible that the US would keep someone locked up at gitmo for years without any chance of ever getting a proper trial or even hearing what the hell you are accused of.
That would never happen.
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Because the publishers felt they didn't need to put "THIS IS NOT AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL" on the front cover of the book.
They're regretting that decision now.
The fact that this argument cannot be dismissed as ridiculous, hyperbolic poppycock is testament to how far the United States has fallen in the world's estimation.
"I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
Tell that to all the other non US citizens sitting in gitmo for years without a trial or charge.
He could possibly still be charged on espionage, racketeering and related laws. Treason is actually very limited in the US by the US constitution even if he was a US citizen.
None of those carry a death penalty unless the violation of the laws directly result in someone's death. However, that still shouldn't be much of a concern because the US often agrees not to pursuit the death penalty as a condition to extradite someone from different countries.
What is happening here is little more then then stating a defense to guard against extradition out of England in the first place. They are stating every possible scenario including ones muttered by "prominent figures" who a good portion of the US thinks are crazy, ignorant, or bat-shit stupid. They are even arguing that the prosecutor who issued the warrant didn't even have authority to do so.
There is nothing new or revealing here. His lawyers are simply putting everything possible on the table to show extraditing Assange should not happen. If they don't bring it up in lower courts, they might not be able to in higher ones.
On no grounds. U.S. officials have not shown that Assange has committed a single crime in the U.S. He is merely wanted here for questioning, probably to prosecute those who did violate U.S. law, such as any of Bradley Manning's co-conspirators or to find out who leaked the Iraq war logs, the U.S. diplomatic cables, etc.
Gitmo is a facility of the U.S. Navy; I doubt he'd be held there as he's wanted by the Department of Justice, not the Pentagon.
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It's bullshit. What about the site admins for Wikileaks, or the dozens (if not hundreds) of media employees around the globe that are sitting on the full cable file and letting it trickle out? What about the security guys in the military, whose job it is to ensure stuff like this doesn't happen?
Assange is nothing but a mouthpiece. The fact that he's the primary target in this whole thing is just as asinine as the US Government's strategy to prevent leaks being leaked.
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This is pretty thin. It's not clear that Assange could be vulnerable to criminal charges of say, treason, in the US since he is not a citizen of, nor loyal to, the US. WikiLeaks does not have servers in the US. Moreover the 'figures' that the lawyers cites as saying Assange should be executed have no actual authority in the US. They cite Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, neither of whom hold political office and (I'm guessing - and hoping) will not have any official political power in the near future.
This is Assange's own lawyers trying to prevent extradition to Sweden, which has actually filed criminal charges against him. I'm all for what Assange does, but this is exceedingly unlikely to come to pass.
Were the people currently in Guantanamo US citizens or in US jurisdiction at the time of their "arrest"? "We don't like him" seems to be exactly the normal reason for being sent there.
Let's face it, when was the last time the USA didn't take an opportunity to look as hypocritical as possible on the world stage?
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"We don't like him" wasn't a valid reason for shipping to Gitmo or executions
Does it matter whether there's a valid reason or not? The way Gitmo is structured, you get sent there by the executive branch without ever receiving trial, and remain there occasionally getting a kangaroo court to say "yeah, keep him locked up" every year or so. There have been innocent people, including some US citizens, subjected to this sort of treatment in a blatant violation of the US Constitution.
Assange has been very clear through all of this that the reason he doesn't trust the US government is precisely because they've shown no inclination to follow their own laws.
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I'm a bit confused.
Are you saying we shouldn't be worried about Sweden getting mixed up in "extraordinary rendition" (ie kidnapping) because they were caught doing it?
Personally I take the opposite lesson...they've demonstrated they will do it. They may have learned their lesson... or perhaps the only lesson learned was to try harder so as not to get caught next time.
Your argument is that because Sweden has illegally rendered people before that they will not do so again?
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No offense to those who died. The people rising up violently as a result to finding out about massive corruption in their own government, in my opinion, cannot be the fault of the group who revealed the corruption.
If massive amounts of corruption that we know exist were finally brought to light in the US and the result was an armed uprising of citizens opposed to that corruption, I could not possibly blame who revealed the corruption as the cause of the violence.
As a famous saying, don't blame the messenger. This is not a situation of supposedly revealed anonymous sources and putting secret operations in jeopardy or anything of the sort. This is a case of people revolting to massive corruption.
I do not condone the violence, I mourn for those who died. However, even though the violence was a result of the release, I believe it is very important that people know of corruption in their government. If Assange had leaked some document showing corruption being perpetrated by Obama, or proving that he wasn't born in Hawaii and the result was a violent protest or uprising. I believe that Tea Party members would be calling Assange a hero for revealing the information and not blame him for the violence. Food for thought.
it's been proven that there is no charge of espionage, since he never obtained any information in the first place.
Then what did he have to post?
It was given to him.
Ahh. So your assertion is that if it is "given" to him, as opposed to his asking for it, that's not espionage? Likely as not, the charge is going to assert that Assange asked PFC Manning to give him the information, which would make them co-conspirators.
Whether that is TRUE, or not, I do not make judgement. But that is likely what the charge will be.
If that were true, that would mean they could charge the newspapers with treason.
Actually newspaper reporters and editors have been charged with treason in the past, and probably will be again in the future, in nations around the world. Newspaper reporters traveling with the military, for instance, are enjoined and warned about transmitting their locations over broadcast. Geraldo Rivera was kicked out of just such an assignment for drawing a map in the sand for the audience.
quit making shit up, you dumb fucking retard.
Are you expecting me to respond in kind? I know your type. You're posting "anonymously" so that you can log in and downmod me a few times.
Please get an education and grow up. The world does not work the way you think it does.
I've been following this wikileaks stuff from the get go, and I still haven't seen any evidence to suggest that Assange is the target of anything more than an obsessed media and a lot of public outcry by the same stupid pundits that throw up a public outcry over every other damn thing in the news.
I'll grant that the circumstances and nuances of Assange's whole sex-offender case were damn strange, meaning all that stuff involving the case getting dropped, then picked up, then Interpol involvement, etc. But considering that large government bureaucracies, in general, don't often operate efficiently, or, for that matter, even sensibly half the damn time, all that crap could very well be little more than the Swedish justice system panicking over a high profile case and responding to such global scrutiny in the same way that many people would under such a lens: completely uselessly and foolishly.
I'm not saying Assange explicitly is not on some government blacklist somewhere, but I also don't see a lot of convincing evidence that he definitely is the target of anything in particular; other than, you know, some bitter female scorn projected by two young lasses that he fooled about with.
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> This is so much hyperbole it is not even funny.
Right, because we've never executed people for this sort of thing before. And, even though we'd put innocent US citizens in Gitmo, there's no way we'd do that to someone who isn't even a US national, neatly sidestepping all that "fair trial" nonsense by labeling him as some kind of "enemy combatant" or whatever.
And, even though we have politicians calling for Julian Assange to be assassinated, there's no way that anyone would ever even think of taking them seriously. Ever.
That's total hyperbole, right? Nobody here is that crazy... right?
The US Government's own report concludes that the vast majority of people in Guantanamo (either historically or now) have no business being there and were or should be released (if they can find somewhere to send them).
Of the 779 people held at Guantanamo since January 2002 only 36 are being held for prosecution and 48 are marked for being held "indefinately". A handful of others have been handed over for prosecution in other countries. By my reckoning that makes at least 85% of detainees held without good, legal reason.
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So if you had hard evidence that, for instance, the government did 9/11 (And I don't believe it did at all, just using this as an example), and I mean hard evidence as in tape recordings of the President giving the "go ahead" for the operation - you'd sit on it and say that you have no right to release private information?
The way democracy works, any efforts by a ruling party to prevent fair, honest elections - ie, election fraud - is the most important kind of public information.
I don't really like Assange as a person either, but I wholly support the cause. If the governments "win" and manage to shut down WikiLeaks and silence Assange, what does that say about the free world? The problem with corruption is that almost nobody tries to stand up to it - it's why corruption persists. People are weak and easily bought out by money, or killed. Here's a person and an organisation who are saying "We will not be deterred, or bribed, or bullied - and wherever we get information that governments are lying or trying to hide information from its citizens that harms those citizens - we'll make that information public" and you're siding with the corrupt?
Do you realise how very rare and important it is for people to stand up to corruption? WikiLeaks may not always get it right - they're fallable just like the rest of us - and might release information they shouldn't. But by far they're the lesser of two evils - if you consider their goals an evil at all.
Don't like Assange? Fine. Don't like particular leaks? Fine. Think WikiLeaks is a bad thing for the world? Wrong - bringing corruption to light is one of the most responsible and important things an organisation can do. Especially when it makes them the enemy of every government in the "free world" because it threatens their own corrupt practices.
"The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
Except that he is a citizen of a foreign country, and not on American soil, therefore no American law applies to him. That is the only defense he needs, and it is ironclad (that isn't to say the American government will care). I don't know that I agree with his actions, but I for damn sure don't agree with my leaders' responses, and I will be giving them an earful if they pursue this.
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No, Manning was the man who gave the stuff out to Assange.
Manning also happens to have the misfortune of being in the military, where the rules are different from both the civil and criminal courts.
Misfortune? It's a voluntary force. He voluntarily and actively joined it.
I was going to congratulate you on a reasonable post until the bits where you (a) ridiculed the notion that the US was detaining people without trial in cuba, and (b) claimed that all you need to do to get healthcare in the US is show up to a hospital. Unfortunately, this nonsense puts you in exactly the same nut-boat as the lunatic you were trying to shut down.
For the record:
The United States has and currently holds individuals without trial in Cuba.
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Lesson: respond vigorously to cranks but do not treat it as an opportunity to push your own broken worldview.
Yes and after being caught beating some kid to a bloody pulp for no reason can I claim I'm still a good person because I'm far far away from being the worst offender in the country what with some guy who fed bleech to his victims before raping them to death.
Being able to point to groups that are worse doesn't make your own any better.
The US is supposed to be a civilized western nation,
When it tortures people: That there exist countries which torture people more does not make it any better.
When it interns people without trial: the fact there exist countries which intern people more and for longer doesn't make it ok .
When it abducts innocent people from around the world for the aforementioned internment and torture it doesn't make it ok just because some other nations have done the same in the past.
Like it or not the US has got a reputation for torturing people not because of some smoke and mirrors show but simply because it's been torturing people.