Apple iPhone 5 To Flaunt New A8 Processor

An anonymous reader writes "The release of iOS 4.3 beta for developers has revealed updates to gesture-based navigation, AirPlay and Personal Hot Spot in the next edition of iPad and iPhone. However, not all changes are UI-related; it is reported that Apple is due to add an ARM Cortex A8 processor to its iPhone 5. Apple Daily, a Hong Kong-based newspaper, reported that Apple's iPhone 5 will be powered by a dual core processor with SGX543 graphics. It is reported that Apple is in contact with a Taiwanese component maker for the A8 SoC. Currently Apple uses a custom made A4 SoC in its iPad and iPhone 4 and uses SGX535 graphics and video support."

Comments

It will be purchased with life energy

[Anonymous Coward]

Rather than paying with dollars, iPhone 5 owners will have to pay with some of their own life energy. Every iPhone 5 owner will be required to give up one hour of their life. This way, with every 24 sold, Steve Jobs lives another day. Every million devices sold will grant Steve Jobs slightly more than an extra century of life.

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[rolfwind]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgZKjJt-TkU

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[Tr3vin]

How does this stack with deals made with a shinigami? Does the one hour come before or after half of my remaining life is taken?

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[blai]

I expect to see this post modded +5 informative once the iPhone 5 is out.

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Brian Lumley has prior art on that scheme. His vampires hate Flash too.

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[Anonymous Coward]

All he needs is the right portrait, kept in his attic.

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a real bitchy thing to say. If you're ever seriously sick I hope people don't make snide comments at you about how long you'll live.

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[Lumpy]

Wait, with the iphone 5 I only have to give up 1 hour?

Will I get the 4 hour refund of the 5 hours I gave up for being a iphone user from V1.0?

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[kashif1246]

The iPad is a tablet computer designed, developed and marketed by Apple primarily as a platform for audio-visual media including books, periodicals, movies, music, games, and web content.Now a days it is available at online shopping sites. One should use it.

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[ryzvonusef]

Funnily enough, the concept of life energy transfer you outlined resembles the main story line of Brandon Sanderson's novel "Warbreaker".

But then again, if life imitates art, is Steve Jobs a God??? :P

PS. Legally available to download from his site: http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/Warbreaker_hardcover_1st_ed.pdf

Re:It will be purchased with life energy

[Phoghat]

This WOULD be funny if Jobs weren't a very sick man, fighting for his life, who had to take a medical leave of absence from the company. As it is it's just a snarky comment

Great!

[mekkab]

Can we run linux on it?!

Re:Great!

[macs4all]

Can we run linux on it?!

Since you can already run Android on the iPhone (supposedly), I would imagine someone will make it happen.

But why?

Re:Great!

[Yazdmich]

actually, iOS is better than Linux, its UNIX based since its a stem of OSX, which is UNIX with a good GUI

Flaunt? New?

[TheRaven64]

Uh, the A8 is ARM's old smartphone core. Putting two of them in a package is a little bit clever because, unlike the A9 that everyone else's next generation products are using, the A8 isn't actually designed for multicore applications (the A9 scales to 4 cores).

Re:Flaunt? New?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, the A8 is ARM's old smartphone core. Putting two of them in a package is a little bit clever because, unlike the A9 that everyone else's next generation products are using, the A8 isn't actually designed for multicore applications (the A9 scales to 4 cores).

The article was translated a bit poorly. A8 means "Apple's new name for their processor", not "Cortex A8 architecture".

Re:Flaunt? New?

[the linux geek]

No. A5 is Apple's new processor. The article explicitly states that they're adding an ARM Cortex A8 chip, which weirdly the iPhone 4 already has.

Re:Flaunt? New?

[Max Littlemore]

Did you not read TFS? Apple is adding AirPlay and Personal Hot Spot! (Not that they need to really add personal hotspot, every apple fanboi would get a personal hotspot if apple released a line of napkins).

Look, it doesn't matter how crappy the actual hardware is, it's from Apple. Apple will make it shiny.

In the interests of full disclosure, I have no idea what AirPlay or Personal HotSpot are, nor do I care, but I will hazard a guess they are old technology for everyone else...

Re:Flaunt? New?

[AmiMoJo]

It makes sense when you consider that the iPhone does not multitask in the normal way. An Android phone benefits directly from having a faster dual core CPU because it runs multiple interactive threads at once. On an iPhone there is only one foreground task and most apps don't do particularly heavy processing, so the only benefit of having a faster or dual core CPU is to make the OS more responsive and do more in the background.

In fact for Apple adding a faster CPU so soon after the iPhone 4 and iPad came out could be a bad thing. If apps start relying on that speed and running slowly on older devices people would be upset. As I say, CPU speed is not usually a limiting factor for apps anyway. Better to run at about the same speed but be able to do more processing in the background, hence dual cores but no major speed boost over current gen phones.

Re:Flaunt? New?

[Gilmoure]

Apple makes dinnerware? SWEET!

Oops, gotta' go change my pants. BRB.

A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 based

[teh31337one]

A4 uses a Cortex A8 processor. A4 is the marketing term for their SoC, (Cortex A8 @ 1ghz(800ish mhz on iPhone 4) + PowerVR 430). The next version will probably have a Cortex A9 based chip.

N900?

[duguk]

ARM Cortex A8? Isn't that the processor in the Nokia N900?

Re:N900?

[Microlith]

Yes, the N900.

And the Palm Pre.

And the Motorola DROID, Droid X, DROID 2, and DROID PRO.

iPhone 3Gs, iPad, iPhone 4, iPods, and Apple TV.

Pretty much every non-Qualcomm based phone currently runs on Cortex-A8 based CPUs.

Re:N900?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just out of curiosity what do the Qualcomm based phones run on?

Re:N900?

[vbraga]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(System_on_Chip)

Re:N900?

[HateBreeder]

According to : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)

Snapdragon Platform. With the Snapdragon application processor core, dubbed Scorpion, is Qualcomm's own design. It has many features similar to those of the ARM Cortex-A8 core and it is based on the ARM v7 instruction set, but theoretically has much higher performance for multimedia-related SIMD operations.

Re:N900?

[TheRaven64]

A very heavily modified A8. Qualcomm licensed the A8, but then ripped out the floating point pipeline and replaced it with something better, tweaked the rest of the pipeline in a few places and branded it Scorpion. It generally ships in their Snapdragon SoC. It's somewhere between the A8 and A9 in performance for most workloads.

ARM provides a variety of different licenses. The cheapest just let you take their core, pop it in the middle of a chip and put other cores around out (or fab it by itself). The most expensive ones give you all of the designs and the right to modify them in any way you like. Qualcomm is one of the few companies with the latter kind.

Most SoC makers get the cheaper ones and differentiate their products by adding different components to the ARM core. For example, the TI OMAP series comes with a TI DSP that provides a lot more performance (and a huge amount more performance-per-Watt) for a lot of media decoding tasks, nVidia's Tegra series comes with an nVidia GPU.

Qualcomm modifies the ARM core itself, which means that it takes them longer to get to market but gives better performance. It also has the effect that they are out of phase with the rest of the market. Everyone else was shipping A8s before the Snapdragon was out, but then Snapdragon (which outperforms the A8) came out before anyone was shipping A9 cores. They will probably do something similar with the A9 and bring their tweaked version to market just as the A9 is starting to show its age.

The other interesting company is Marvell. They have a license from ARM that allows them to modify ARM chips or produce their own independently designed ARM-compatible chips. They bought the XScale line from Intel, which is based on the StrongARM design from Digital. They make the chips in the SheevaPlug and similar systems, which are not ARM designs.

Re:N900?

[Anonymous Coward]

And Qualcomm is sticking with Pentium?

Re:N900?

[kangsterizer]

A Cortex A8 based CPU. Yep, lol. (FPU is heavily modified)

Re:N900?

[dudpixel]

galaxy s, nexus s...

Re:N900?

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

A very heavily modified A8. Qualcomm licensed the A8, but then ripped out the floating point pipeline and replaced it with something better

So they "ripped out" an optional extension? Wow, I bet that took some engineering.

Re:N900?

[hazydave]

There are quite a few companies with the ARM Architecture license. It was needed by anyone delivering an A8 at 1GHz, since that's beyond the point of ARM's certification. Apple has an Architecture license, though they probably didn't need it yet, since all their stuff so far is just stripped down versions of Samsung SOCs. The shopping for a foundry in Taiwan might be true, though... with Samsung emerging as a big player in both smartphone and tablet, Apple might be getting a little nervous about their supply. Or even the simple fact that every iPhone, iPod, or iPad sold is also boosting Samung's economies of scale. Not that the world's second largest chip maker need worry all that much, anyway.

Most of the media decoding on these devices isn't done on the CPU, or even the DSP or GPU. To really keep power down, there are dedicated DCT acceleration engines in hardware. The Tegra 2, for example, can play 1080p using only about 400mW. The playback engine isn't totally dedicated to one specific video type... nVidia claims support for H.264, MPEG1/2, VP6, VP8, VC-1, and other DCT-based standards.

When the SGX543 was announced, PowerVR were actually showing it off in a four-core version. Otherwise, it's basically an SGX540.. maybe a little faster in most implementations, since the original design targeted 65nm chips, and no one's using that for this year's smartphones and tablets. This is a synthesizable core, as are all their "chips", so this can be implemented between 1 and 16 cores. The cores are computing cores, capable of GPGPU computing (OpenCL, etc). Desktop GPUs, of course, can have hundreds of such processors, but this is fairly new in chips designed for mobile computing. Of course, since this a PowerVR design, they're going to be in everyone's SOCs before you know it.

Apple's SOC names are only adding to the confusion... does an A8 SOC contain a Cortex A8 or Cortex A9 CPU? And how many? Most of the new tablets and even smart phones are going to A9 and dual core, at 1GHz or more. That's a good 2.5x faster than an iPad, at least at the metal (Android is going to be slower on some things per clock cycle, at least until is starts using the NEON vector instructions

Re:N900?

[bhtooefr]

Marvell actually has two different core families - their own Feroceon (an out-of-order design) core family, and the XScale family.

That said, I believe they've phased out much of the XScale stuff, merging it into the Feroceon family, which is now known as Sheeva, and is out-of-order, dual-issue. (So, similar to Cortex-A9.)

flaunt, really?

[huiwe]

Tongue seeking arse much?

Cortex A8 = Single Core

[Anonymous Coward]

Cortex A8 = single core people. Cortex A9 = dual core.

It might be that Apple is calling their new processor A8, like the called their old processor A4. These names, though, are arbitrary and don't reflect the underlying Cortex architecture.

Re:Cortex A8 = Single Core

[TheRaven64]

single core people

That's not a nice way of talking about iPhone users.

Re:Cortex A8 = Single Core

[gbjbaanb]

Hmm.

so the A4 is an A8 and the A8 will be an A9?

I guess this brain-hurting confusion is the reason why Steve has had to take medical leave. I think I need some too now.

Re:Cortex A8 = Single Core

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish people could use commas correctly.

Re:Cortex A8 = Single Core

[Jugalator]

The Apple A4 in the iPhone 4 is a Cortex A8, and the Apple A5 in the iPhone 5 will be a Cortex A9.

That's what all the rumors are telling, and if this article isn't (I haven't RTFA), it's probably wrong. And confusing.

Re:Cortex A8 = Single Core

[TheRaven64]

And the Cortex A5 in cheap Nokia dumbphones is not the same as the Apple A5, which uses a Cortex A9 core.

Re:Cortex A8 = Single Core

[Anonymous Coward]

your wish is their comma,nd

(Not actual lifespan)

[sakdoctor]

Lifespan at 5 deg C, 33% metabolic rate.
Sequence shortened.

Re:(Not actual lifespan)

[Sulphur]

Lifespan at 5 deg C, 33% metabolic rate.
Sequence shortened.

Just wait till you have to deal with the Life Span Exporting Countries cartel.

Not A8

[Microlith]

Holy cow that article is written from ignorance. Never put it past a business rag to get technical details entirely wrong.

However not all changes are UI related; it is reported that Apple is due to add an ARM Cortex A8 processor to its iPhone 5.

Holy shit they're stupid. The A4 processor IS a Cortex-A8. I suppose Apple can be blamed for their stupid marketing garbage, though.

Also, Engadget reported that the next edition of iPad and iPhone will run on A9 multi-core chips designed by Qualcomm.

Goddamnit, no. Qualcomm does not use the ARM designed Cortex cores.

Apple Insider reported that the SGX543 is designed to parallel as many as 16 cores together thus the developers do not have to rewrite the apps to optimize multiple-cores.

Apparently the author of this article is just throwing around words, instead of being aware that there's a difference between the actual processor core and the on-die GPU core.

Basically, this article is filled with flawed writing based on the author's almost total ignorance of the subject. They know just enough, however, to be completely and totally wrong.

Re:Not A8

[TheRaven64]

Qualcomm does not use the ARM designed Cortex cores

The Qualcomm Snapdragon is a (very) heavily modified A8. Qualcomm has one of the most expensive ARM licenses, which allows them to extensively modify the cores, rather than just stamp them into SoCs with other stuff.

Basically, this article is filled with flawed writing based on the author's almost total ignorance of the subject. They know just enough, however, to be completely and totally wrong.

Yes, I think I lost 5 IQ points from reading TFA. That'll teach me to click on links in /. stories.

Re:Not A8

[tlhIngan]

The Qualcomm Snapdragon is a (very) heavily modified A8. Qualcomm has one of the most expensive ARM licenses, which allows them to extensively modify the cores, rather than just stamp them into SoCs with other stuff.

As does Apple and Marvell (who has the original architecture license - DEC (StrongARM) --> Compaq (acquired DEC) --> Intel (through litigation with Compaq, and produced XScale) --> Marvell (purchasing Intel's mobile division)).

Samsung might have one too - their Cortex A8's were modified by that company Apple acquired as well, unless the A8 licensing allows minor modifications. Still, the A8 core used by Apple and Samsung aren't stock - I think the Apple one is actually a bit more modified as well.

(Fun fact - Apple was one of the original ARM investors (back when it was Acorn RISC Machines) and pretty much made it popular with Newton...)

Re:Not A8

[Bing Tsher E]

and pretty much made it popular with Newton..

I take it you're using the definition of 'pretty much' that means 'not really' and is only proper grammar if used in the context of marketing hype.

Re:Not A8

[amicusNYCL]

Holy shit they're stupid.

Seriously. Who doesn't know that the A4 contains an A8 and that the A8 (the new A8, not the other A8 in the A4) will contain an A9? Shit, I learned that in pre-school.

Re:Not A8

[countertrolling]

Basically, this article is filled with flawed writing based on the author's almost total ignorance of the subject.

It's the result netted by a content aggregator that seeks out mutual advertising links. There is very little on the front page that's particular to Slashdot any more. It's all very generic now in the quest for a wider audience.

If you want to be indexed, don't forget to put the twitter and facebook icons on your page.

Re:Not A8

[sconeu]

We're talking about Audis, right?

Re:Not A8

[Jesus_666]

Apple revealed its new iPhone 5 to the press. The iPhone 5 will feature two new A8 processors, unlike the iPhone 4, which used a single A4 processor. Basic understanding of the DIN A norm tells us that this means the iPhone 5's processors will be much smaller, at a mere 39 square centimeters each compared to the 625 square centimeter processor of its predecessor.

The iPhone 5 will also use sixteen Qualcomm SGX543 graphics cards, seamlessly converting all running applications to multithreads. With 35 million polygons times 1 billion pixels, the SGX543 can render video and games at resolutions of 40000x25000, upstaging current Motorola devices that merely support 1080x1728. This will allow the iPhone 5 to natively support HDMI, DisplayPort and SCART display technologies.


This is Bob Bobson for the Podunk Future Tech Gazette.

Re:Not A8

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently the author of this article is just throwing around words, instead of being aware that there's a difference between the actual processor core and the on-die GPU core.

Actually from what I read earlier, the quote about the graphics chip is accurate.

Re:Not A8

[choko]

I see engadget is quoted there. That's the problem. I think Apple purchased them and made them part of their marketing tentacle.

Re:Not A8

[noidentity]

Who doesn't know that the A4 contains an A8 and that the A8 (the new A8, not the other A8 in the A4) will contain an A9?

For one, a writer of an article who didn't research it before writing it.

Shit, I learned that in pre-school.

So that's all we can expect of writers these days, pre-school education? If it's something taught after that, then we're asking too much for them to research it before writing about it?

Re:Not A8

[amicusNYCL]

then we're asking too much for them to research it before writing about it?

I would be satisfied if we could just make a proper distinction between someone being of low intelligence (stupid) and someone simply being uninformed or misinformed (ignorant).

Re:Not A8

[noidentity]

No disagreement there; I find it sad when for example someone is put down simply because he doesn't know how a particular OS or GUI works, even though he is teaching himself. But is a journalist who is ignorant about the topic his article is about merely ignorant, or is there also some lack of something (not necessarily intelligence) that caused him to not research the topic better first?

A while back I posted a defense here of jurors not knowing all the details of their powers as jurors simply because they aren't taught, rather than a lack of intelligence, but someone here pointed out that someone called on to spend several days deciding the fate of another man is more than simply ignorant if he doesn't spend some time reading about his powers as a juror at some point in the process.

Re:Not A8

[UnknowingFool]

Also, Engadget reported that the next edition of iPad and iPhone will run on A9 multi-core chips designed by Qualcomm.

For me here's where it goes from educated guess to rampant, wild speculation without any logic. Most likely Qualcomm will not be designing any chip for Apple. Apple has acquired both Intrinsity and PA Semi in the last 2 years to do their chip design. PA Semi for general ARM design and Intrinsity specifically for mobile ARM. Intrinsity did a great deal of their A4 design then Apple acquired them. For the next chip, Apple is going to abandon the company they just bought? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It goes against Apple's typically pattern when buying companies. Typically Apple buys companies specifically for patents or personnel.

Also it ignores why Apple bought PA Semi and Intrinsity. This started with the original iPhone. Reportedly Apple was not happy with the chip they got from Samsung. Problem was the chip was exactly as Apple specified. Apple simply didn't have the expertise to tell Samsung what they wanted. The other problem is cost. Normally chip makers like Samsung has a general chip. Each customer makes some customization, but like in all things, the more customization they make, the more it will cost them. Lastly who owns the customizations patent and technology wise? If Samsung is doing all the design work, they will most likely keep own the customizations which they can then charge the customer in licensing. The customer also may not be able to keep Samsung from selling their customizations to other customers.

Now take a look at the A4. Their isn't anything that can be considered break-through. It has been optimized for performance/power considerations. But it is an Apple design. Apple doesn't have to pay Samsung or anyone to make changes. They don't have to license from anyone other than ARM. Should Apple decide to use TI or IBM to make their next chip, they are not dependent on Samsung.

Re:Not A8

[lizardb0y]

> Apple was one of the original ARM investors (back when it was Acorn RISC Machines) and pretty much made it popular with Newton...)

That's the first time I've ever heard the Newton described as "popular"!

Actually, Acorn (who, as others have noted, designed the ARM processor) made ARM popular with the Archimedes.

Re:Not A8

[TheRaven64]

The Newton wasn't popular, but it made the ARM chips popular for other mobile devices. Having Acorn as a customer let them get the volumes up enough to get the economies of scale that they needed, and the Newton demonstrated that you could put a reasonable amount of CPU power in a handheld without needing a huge battery (except to drive the Newton's huge screen).

Re:Not A8

[TheRaven64]

Indeed. A person is ignorant when they don't know something. A person is stupid when they write an article about something without knowing anything about it. Entirely different.

Re:Not A8

[amicusNYCL]

Is he still stupid if he wrote the article with the assumption that the information he was given was correct? What if the engineer he talked to on the phone gave him incorrect information for whatever reason? How does he know it's not correct? Is that a sign of stupidity?

Re:Not A8

[Man On Pink Corner]

As a software-hacker type, there are reasons why I don't even try to write articles for the Journal of Quantum Physics.

Not being stupid enough to think I could get away with it is one of those reasons, yes.

Re:Not A8

[lizardb0y]

>Having Acorn as a customer...

I assume you mean Apple. :)

>Newton demonstrated that you could put a reasonable amount of CPU power in a handheld without needing a huge battery

True enough, but Acorn had been making ARM computers for six years by the time the H1000 was released. It's hard to beleive Apple would have invested back in 1989 or thereabouts if ARM hadn't gained a notable place in the market already.

Re:Not A8

[TheRaven64]

I assume you mean Apple. :)

No, I meant Acorn. They did very well in the UK schools market and quite well in the UK home market, which got ARM's volumes up, but they had almost no international sales so they were basically invisible to US (or even EU) corporations looking for chips for handheld computers.

It's hard to beleive Apple would have invested back in 1989 or thereabouts if ARM hadn't gained a notable place in the market already.

ARM had almost no place in the market back then at all. The ARM2 was the existing chip back then, and it wasn't very impressive (although it was low power). ARM was created as a joint spin-out from three companies - Acorn and Apple were two of them (VLSI International was the third - they actually made the chips). Acorn did the original chip design, but Apple didn't want to buy chips from Acorn because they were a competitor. The solution was to create a jointly owned company that would sell to both. It took a few years to get the Newton to the market, but Apple began development in 1987 and was looking for a chip at around the same time Acorn was looking to replace the 6502. Acorn found that their very simple design happened to have very low power requirements (not actually a design goal, just a side effect of having a very low transistor budget and few engineers) and so Apple approached them about selling it.

Re:Not A8

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

> Apple was one of the original ARM investors (back when it was Acorn RISC Machines) and pretty much made it popular with Newton...)

That's the first time I've ever heard the Newton described as "popular"!

Actually, Acorn (who, as others have noted, designed the ARM processor) made ARM popular with the Archimedes.

Ahh, so despite the Newton selling far more units than the Archimedes ever did, it was the Archimedes that was more popular. Sure.

Re:Not A8

[sergueyz]

I think that this new iPhone will be highly portable, featuring six comfortable handles for hand transportation.

Re:Not A8

[lizardb0y]

> No, I meant Acorn.

Acorn had Acorn as a Customer? ARM was not separate company from Acorn until after Apple invested. The Archimemdes was made by Acorn using the ARM processor that Acorn designed and had manufactured by VSLI Tech. It was only several years later (around 1989 IIRC) that Apple decided to invest, and the CPU business was spun off as Advanced RISC Machines. This was well after the ARM architecture had become well established outside the US by Acorn and the Archimedes. It was the existing success of Acorn that drew them to Apple's attention.

>They did very well in the UK schools market and quite well in the UK home market, which got ARM's volumes up, but they had almost no international sales so they were basically invisible to US...

I see. I have never lived in the US and don't share your perspective. The Archimedes sold a crapload better than the Newton here, with most Newton models never even being imported. But this is getting off-track. You said that the ARM was "made popular" by the Newton, which I dispute. Popular means something like:

regarded with great favor, approval, or affection especially by the general public; "a popular tourist attraction"; "a popular girl"; "cabbage patch dolls are no longer popular"

The fact is, the Newton was never regarded with great favour, approval or affection. The Archimedes was, and was regarded so several years before Apple had anything to do with Acorn or the Archimedes. I agree that the Newton established the ARM core as a low-power CPU for mobile devices. But what made the ARM core popular was Acorn well before Apple even had a look in.

Re:Not A8

[hazydave]

I do believe Samsung has an ARM Architecture license, too. Anyone selling a 1GHz or above Cortex A8 has access to a modified core, because ARM only certifies this to 800MHz (in a small enough process) based on their design. The "no mess" license doesn't permit overclocking.

Re:Not A8

[hazydave]

Actually, the Newton had very little effect on the popularity of ARM devices. There were many alternatives back in those days: PPC, MIPS, etc. It was the adoption of the ARM as basically the "6502" of the cell phone industry that made it popular. The early ARMs were lower performance that most of the others, but still 32-bit, still a licensable core -- just what very small devices like dumb cell phones needed.

Re:Not A8

[hazydave]

Yup.. Intrinsity worked with Samsung on their modified A8 core -- that's the one used in the Apple A4 SOC, and all of the Samsung Galaxy devices. Intrinsity's special sauce is speeding things up; they use somewhat unconventional techniques (dynamic latches, NMOS gates, 1-hot state machines, etc... a methodology they call "Fast14") to speed up the critical sections in existing designs. Anyone out there with a Cortex A8 at 1GHz or more did some modifications over and above the ARM original design. Qualcomm did too, of course, maybe that's how they got mentioned, but they're not involved, at least not to date.

The A4 is a modified Samsung design, using the same "Hummingbird" core as in the S5PC110 and S5PV210. This was before Apple acquired Intrinsity. Given that most accounts say that Intrinsity "codeveloped" the Hummingbird with Samsung, it's pretty likely that Apple has the rights, at least at this point if not before. It's also very likely that, since they're now in direct competition with Samsung AND they own both PA Semi and Intrinsity, they'll be looking for other fab capability for the next gen stuff.

Re:Not A8

[bhtooefr]

ARM2 actually was quite impressive when it launched - it was competitive with 16 MHz 80386s when it launched (and an Archimedes was far cheaper than the equivalent configuration of a 386 desktop at the time,) and it was aimed at the same market as 8 MHz 68000s, which it utterly destroyed performance-wise. (Not to mention, the Archimedes 440 had far more RAM than the (7 MHz 68000-based) Amiga 2000, and was still cheaper. And it had a standard hard drive.) Oh, and it also beat far more expensive 68020s. The 68030 came out at the same time, but it took another year before the 68030 made it into a desktop that was even vaguely home/school oriented.)

Oh, and the very low power consumption of ARM1 and 2 was actually a design goal - they were aiming for 1 watt at 8 MHz, so they could get it in a cheaper plastic package. As the story goes, they couldn't spend the resources getting as close to 1 watt as possible... so they just way overengineered it to make sure they were under 1 watt. Then, when they went to test the power consumption of an ARM1 sample, they hooked up the data lines, and went to hook up the power line with an ammeter inline... and the CPU was already running, purely off of the data lines, leeching power off of the ESD protection diode. It was 0.1 watt power consumption.

It's a shame Acorn was afraid to launch the Archimedes here in the US - it would've been interesting to see the impact on the computing market had that happened. (The reason they were afraid was likely because of the massive failure of the BBC Model B here.)

Re:Not A8

[bhtooefr]

The Qualcomm part likely regards the baseband radio, not the SoC.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4208685/Analyst--iPhone-to-sole-source-Qualcomm-chip-semiconductor

So, the comments about Qualcomm being inolved in the SoC may be wrong, but they are dropping Infineon for Qualcomm, for the baseband.

flaunt?

[larry bagina]

flaunt |flônt; flänt|
verb [ trans. ]
display (something) ostentatiously, esp. in order to provoke envy or admiration or to show defiance : newly rich consumers eager to flaunt their prosperity. ( flaunt oneself) dress or behave in a sexually provocative way.

Apple flaunts the UI, not the tech specs (ram, processor, bus speed, etc).

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple even flaunts their lack of features.
Flaunt is the correct description of everything Apple.

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

not the tech specs

Apple flaunts their hardware when they can, which isn't often. 'Retina Display' is a recent example marketing the 'tech specs' of their products.

Apple flaunts 'design,' of which UI is a part. Well they should too; their designs are often excellent and repeatedly set standards the rest of the world must then catch up with.

Re:flaunt?

[Pojut]

I still have yet to understand what's so amazing about iOS, from a GUI point of view. It's incredibly sparse and lacking in workflow functionality. The steps you have to take when you get an email or a text message, for example, are far more convoluted than on Android (in which you pull down the notification bar (regardless of what you're doing), tap the email/text, read it, then just hit the back arrow twice to immediately go back to what you were doing.

This is just one such example. iOS seems like it functions off a central core with a bunch of solitary roads going outward. Android, however, seems like it has the same layout, but each of the "roads" are interconnected.

Sure, you'll get where you want to go with iOS, but you have to get there in a specific way, whereas with Android you have much more navigational freedom. iOs is Good Enough®, but I still don't see how people applaud it so loudly when it isn't conducive to non-centralized navigation. Let's face it, the homescreen looks like an Android app drawer...

Re:flaunt?

[bemymonkey]

"I still have yet to understand what's so amazing about iOS, from a GUI point of view. It's incredibly sparse and lacking in workflow functionality. The steps you have to take when you get an email or a text message, for example, are far more convoluted than on Android (in which you pull down the notification bar (regardless of what you're doing), tap the email/text, read it, then just hit the back arrow twice to immediately go back to what you were doing."

Having never used iOS long enough to actually receive an e-mail or text and read it (I've never actually owned an iOS device)... what are the steps you'd have to take in order to open a newly received e-mail? Android's way seems to intuitive that I can't really imagine many other concepts. A pop-up? Or do you have to go to the home screen and launch the relevant app?

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to understand it. It's not like there's a problem with people who aren't you liking things you don't like, is there? And it's not like you're the genius to end all geniuses. I don't need to ask there, I've read enough of your posts.

Re:flaunt?

[jedidiah]

You don't have to understand it. It's not like there's a problem with people who aren't you liking things you don't like, is there? And it's not like you're the genius to end all geniuses. I don't need to ask there, I've read enough of your posts.

No. The problem is with the Big Lie that Apple actually knows anything about usability or will necessarily create a better UI just because it's Apple and it's magical.

Quite often they ignore trivial but interesting use cases and unnecessarily cripple available options.

Then fanboys crow about how this is "doing a few things well". No. It's just doing too few things to be really useful.

The sort of consumers willing to subject themselves to MS-DOS in another decade just are too oblivious to notice.

Re:Flaunt?

[bughunter]

Seriously, "flaunt"?

My first impression, too. My mind's eye pictured a lowered iPhone with the A8 mounted on the outside, spinner rims, ground effect lighting, and an airbrushed graphic of a busty chica in a bikini sporting a Bob Dobbs tattoo on her navel.

Re:flaunt?

[zippthorne]

I still have yet to understand what's so amazing about iOS, from a GUI point of view. It's incredibly sparse and lacking in workflow functionality.

Looks like you answered your own question.

Geeks want everything connected in myriad ways so we can be as efficient as possible, but that extra complexity comes at a cost: you have to learn all those pathways in order to use them, and in some cases.. to avoid accidentally using them.

There is a large segment of the population that is happy with a swiss army knife that they can understand all the features of fairly quickly, and don't have to worry about the magnifying glass popping out of the bottle bottle opener.

Re:flaunt?

[Pojut]

You don't have to understand it. It's not like there's a problem with people who aren't you liking things you don't like, is there?

I never said there was. I was talking about iOS, not the people that use it.

And it's not like you're the genius to end all geniuses. I don't need to ask there, I've read enough of your posts.

That being said, I couldn't help but notice you insulted me rather than answering my question. Good form, old chap!

Re:flaunt?

[cgenman]

If you have pop-ups enabled, it appears in the middle of your screen as it happens. You click on the pop-up to get to the message. Going back is a bit more convoluted. You have to tap the home button twice to bring up the list of running applications, then tap the app you were in to go back. It's not bad, though the double-tap of the home button for multitasking is not that intuitive.

Remember, though, that Android and other platforms are building from what was learned on iOS. The closest thing to an iOS type operating system was Palm, and there are many reasons why that was light years different. Don't get me started on the royal crap that was smartphones at the time of the iPhone launch.

It's a bit like The Matrix. If you go back and re-watch it now, you have to wonder what was so special about it. "They're doing eastern mysticism, hong-kong kung-fu wirework, and slow-mo fight scenes. So what? Every movie does that." Well yes, every movie does that because they're all based on The Matrix. Similarly, there are several good portable smartphone operating system choices out there, which all do certain things better than iOS. They all also happen to exist because they copied iOS. And then they built out, did some things better, and became their own animals. But credit where credit is due: nobody was copying Windows Mobile 6. Everyone built from the basis established in iOS.

Re:flaunt?

[bemymonkey]

"If you have pop-ups enabled, it appears in the middle of your screen as it happens. You click on the pop-up to get to the message. Going back is a bit more convoluted. You have to tap the home button twice to bring up the list of running applications, then tap the app you were in to go back. It's not bad, though the double-tap of the home button for multitasking is not that intuitive."

Ouch. And what happens if you don't have popups enabled? Just a status bar notification and the usual ringtone/vibrate?

I've always wondered why iOS users don't go completely crazy without a back button though... always annoyed me within 10 seconds of picking up an iPhone.

"Remember, though, that Android and other platforms are building from what was learned on iOS. The closest thing to an iOS type operating system was Palm, and there are many reasons why that was light years different. Don't get me started on the royal crap that was smartphones at the time of the iPhone launch."

Hah, I used Windows Mobile pretty much until the iPhone 3GS came out. You're right, it was absolute crap... and I'm eternally thankful to Apple for bringing smartphones (my current HTC Desire with CM7 is something I've pretty much dreamed about since I was about ten or twelve years old) to the general public, which never would have happened without their simplistic, intuitive interface. I'm just surprised that Apple is sticking to its tried and true roots so stubbornly instead of just evolving.

That said, most iOS apps at east have back buttons for in-app navigation, don't they? And there are always those annoying apps on Android that don't implement back functionality properly - PlayerPro, my music player, for instance, has an on-screen back button (same place as on iOS usually), and the hardware back button takes you out of the app instead of just to the last view/activity/whatever. That reminds me, I have to go file a bug report/complaint about that :p

Re:flaunt?

[Pojut]

offtopic, but:

PlayerPro, my music player, for instance, has an on-screen back button (same place as on iOS usually), and the hardware back button takes you out of the app instead of just to the last view/activity/whatever. That reminds me, I have to go file a bug report/complaint about that :p

Drop that crap. The Winamp Android app is pure genious. Supports Last.FM Scrobbling, Shoutcast streaming, library streaming from any computer with Winamp installed, wireless synch, iTunes playlist support, and more.

If you have an Android device, and you use it for music, you're wasting your time using anything else. Best of all? It's free :)

Re:flaunt?

[Marcx77]

I guess that these days it's mostly out of a habit created back when iOS was, in fact, amazing when compared to other phone OSes at the time. These days, I think that anyone neutral will have to agree that it definitely can be improved upon. And I'm saying this as a iPhone user who has only briefly used Android phones.

Re:flaunt?

[bemymonkey]

I beg to differ. The Winamp app for Android is horrid... and I say that as someone who's been using Winamp since the early 2.x days.

1. It's basically just a skin on top of the default Android playback system, and doesn't offer any additional features other than Shoutcast.
2. The wireless sync is buggy and doesn't work properly 80% of the time. Wireless device discovery is completely fucked up and takes a lot of praying and swearing to get Winamp to recognize the device...
3. The latest Winamp (on Windows) versions, with the Android sync plugin, are buggy as all fuck. They've broken support for plugins that I use (Tagger!) and love, and there are horrendous bugs present. Try setting up a queue of say 20 songs to transfer to an Android device connected via USB, then select 10 of the songs and remove them from the queue. Winamp doesn't remove the selected songs, but rather the top 10 songs... WTF? Where's the QA? I've reported the bug, of course, and it was even acknowledged, but hey, no need to push out a quick bugfix. It's been weeks now, and there are a lot of bugs present that would merit a quick fix...
4. It has none of the features that I would have expected - Winamp Remote (streaming!) support, synchronization of ratings and playcounts into the Winamp media library, reading album art from jpg files...

Player Pro does all of the things mentioned in point 4 except for streaming, btw, as well as automatic album art downloads ;). Finally i can rate songs when I'm on the go and sync them back into the Winamp library when I'm ready to transfer add new music to the device. Still waiting on ReplayGain support though...

PS: Yes, I'm a bit pissed off at the Winamp dev team for churning out this crap. I've bought multiple Winamp Pro licenses and am deeply disappointed by the fact that most small-time Android devs (i.e. one-man hobby dev shops) can do a much better job. :(

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to understand it. It's not like there's a problem with people who aren't you liking things you don't like, is there? And it's not like you're the genius to end all geniuses. I don't need to ask there, I've read enough of your posts.

No. The problem is with the Big Lie that Apple actually knows anything about usability or will necessarily create a better UI just because it's Apple and it's magical.

Quite often they ignore trivial but interesting use cases and unnecessarily cripple available options.

Then fanboys crow about how this is "doing a few things well". No. It's just doing too few things to be really useful.

The sort of consumers willing to subject themselves to MS-DOS in another decade just are too oblivious to notice.

Hey! You leave Dos out of this! It is still good. I use it ALL the time!

Re:flaunt?

[Pojut]

Weird...I haven't really had any of those problems...what phone are you using it on?

Re:flaunt?

[bemymonkey]

S-OFF'd HTC Desire with CM7. I'm definitely not the only one with these problems though, check out the Winamp for Android forum (on forums.winamp.com)... although I'm probably the loudest complainer ;)

If it works for you, that's great, of course. Do you use the WiFi sync regularly?

Re:flaunt?

[Pojut]

Not on a regular basis, but at least a few times a month. Currently running a Droid Eris with Nonsensikal 15.2

Re:flaunt?

[bemymonkey]

Maybe it's a WiFi network thing. Although mine's nothing special or weird, just regular old WPA2-PSK, no MAC filtering, DHCP on... there's a bunch of people who have had problems though. :(

Re:flaunt?

[EraserMouseMan]

Yea, it's kind of weird. You'll be using an app and this message will pop up blocking the entire screen. And you can't get back to what you were in the middle of till you acknowledge the pop-up. After you've dealt with the pop up you can resume what you just got interrupted from doing. Then when you exit the app you were in you have to remember all the texts/emails/etc that popped up and interrupted what you were previously working on. Then you have to click into each app that alerted you and find who & what you need to reply to one at a time app-by-app. If you forgot an alert, well, it just get's overlooked. There's no single place where all the alerts are collected so you can see them all together and work through them or clear them out.

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard for Apple to implement it. I speculate that they are trying to figure out how to get even easier than Android for bragging rights but are coming up short since Android's notification system is easy, simple and powerful.

Re:flaunt?

[TheRaven64]

I still have yet to understand what's so amazing about iOS, from a GUI point of view

It's simple. Before the iPhone, all mobile phone user interfaces sucked a lot. After the iPhone, all mobile phone users interfaces sucked.

Re:flaunt?

[shutdown -p now]

I still have yet to understand what's so amazing about iOS, from a GUI point of view.

It's very smooth and almost never stutters or freezes - at least compared to Android, which does that all the time. For touch UI, this is especially annoying, since it means that the UI is out of sync with your gestures.

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Let's face it, the homescreen looks like an Android app drawer..."

Fixed:
Let's face it, android app drawer looks looks like an iphone homescreen.

Re:flaunt?

[Dr Max]

you mean a large segment of the population is happy with a spork and spife combo.

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't have push notifications + pop ups enabled, nothing happens for e-mail. They will just appear when you next open your e-mail client, similar to a PC. Text message pop-ups are separate from normal push notifications. Disabling the pop-up of those I believe still gets you the notification tone, but that's it. Nothing happens on the status bar. All applications that support it have a little red indicator number on their home screen icon showing how many unread messages remain, including the mail and text message apps.

Most iOS apps use the breadcrumb paradigm at the top, so getting back and forth within most iOS applications is relatively easy. Still, I'd love a hardware back button, especially if it was supported across all applications.

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or for iOS, just double-tap the home button to select the backgrounded app you want to go back to. Ok so that's 3 taps vs 2; woopy do.

Why is convoluted noodle-like interconnection supposed to be better?

I like it clean and sparse.

Re:flaunt?

[jittles]

Actually, Google purchased the Android OS project in 2005, two years before Apple even announced they were working on the iPhone. I highly doubt that the notification bar or the pop-ups for text messages were added after the release of the iPhone. Further, because the Android OS is so open, you can have competing text messaging software with the stock Android software that provides even better functionality than that which is built in (Handcent, for example).

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like someone who's never used an iphone (more than trying it at the store, or a friends)

There are multiple ways to get to pretty much any application, frequently used apps, and if you jailbreak, the interface is whatever you want, not to mention, it doesn't stutter.

Re:flaunt?

[Anonymous Coward]

The closest thing to an iOS type operating system was Palm, and there are many reasons why that was light years different. Don't get me started on the royal crap that was smartphones at the time of the iPhone launch.

Not really. You may not have heard of them, but Nokia has a fairly long chain of touchscreen experimentation, starting with the 7710 touchscreen phone running Symbian with a UI called S80 (IIRC) designed for it. Then they anticipated a possible shift of the mobile market to Linux, and the 7710's successor, the 770 internet tablet (4" WVGA touchscreen, wifi, and bluetooth), lost the phone (and thus all carrier dependence) and was marketed specifically to linux hackers, aiming to kickstart an open source ecosystem around their Maemo Linux OS, and (hopefully) bring it along with them as they moved Maemo from a public experiment in open source to their main smartphone OS.

The N800 and N810 (4" slate and 4" slider, both with a newer processor) on the hardware side, and several releases of ITOS (as it wasw then termed) carry us up to the iPhone launch, and at that point the Maemo/ITOS system was quite developed. Some liked it better, and some liked iOS better, but there's no real doubt that they were certainly on a competitive level of usability. Fastforward a year or two to the N900 and Maemo 5, and Nokia's kicking Apple's ass in the usability department, and it's by building on their own (longer) touchscreen work with the help of an active open-source community, not by "copying Apple".

  As an unashamed UNIX enthusiast and an early adopter of the N800 (I'd have got the 770, but I was in school and didn't have the cash), for all Nokia's stiumbles learning to deal with open-source, hackers, and the give-and-take of a community/corporate relationship, I'm proud to say "we were here first!" -- of the touchscreen device lines that are still on the market.

To fallen comrades: major greetz to our oldschool pals Agenda, Yopy, and Zaurus -- you're all missed.

To the newcomers who still were way ahead of Apple: OpenMoko, too bad it had to end like that.

Palm.WebOS, Don't let HP corrupt you; keep the faith, little brother!

Apple, the shiny but useless, and Android, the Linux that's not UNIX, you can both SUCK MY COCK.

Re:flaunt?

[sootman]

> Actually, Google purchased the Android OS project in 2005, two
> years before Apple even announced they were working on the
> iPhone. I highly doubt that the notification bar or the pop-ups
> for text messages were added after the release of the iPhone.

Ah, you do not know your history. Yes, Android had been around for a while, but before January 2007, it was nothing more than a BlackBerry clone.
http://www.google.com/images?q=android+prototypes
Granted, that page will have some new models mixed in, but for the most part, this is what Android was before the iPhone. They weren't even touch-based at all.

Re:flaunt?

[ukyoCE]

These are two somewhat fundamental UI approaches. Although you might say the complex multiple-route approach is the natural or evolved method, while the single-way-to-do-anything is a more intentional UI approach.

I haven't use iOS *or* Android, but my experience learning the Xbox 360 UI has been subpar. When there are 5 ways to do everything, you have to learn 5 ways to do everything, and there are little hooks and catches to each of them. Many of the features of the 360 menu have at least 2 routes in the 360 dashboard, a 3rd route in the "home" button menu, plus a 4th route in-game for many actions. It's needlessly redundant and confusing.

That said, it's also very subjective. It's not as simple as "count the routes to a piece of functionality, if there are more than 1, you're doing it wrong". Google is pretty good so I suspect the Android is at a happy medium between Apple-simple and Microsoft-convoluted.

Re:flaunt?

[KristiansT]

I really cant wait to see the real facts about iPhone 5...

Re:You guys should wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am waiting.
Today's smart phones are the equivalent of the 10GB SSD with no TRIM support, stuttering problems, and a $500 price tag.
Let some other sucker soak that up.

Posted by CmdrTaco from the skip-a-few dept.

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical. Stupid story, stupid headline. A8 isn't a new chip. iPhone 3gs had an A8 chip.

Confused

[mike260]

'A4' is Apple's name for a chip based on ARMs Cortex A8 architecture. The next chip will probably be called 'A5', and will probably be based on Cortex A9. A4/A5 and A8/A9 are two seperate nomenclatures.

Also, to 'flaunt' means to

display something ostentatiously, esp. in order to provoke envy or admiration

This is not something an inanimate object like a phone can do.

Re:Confused

[mike260]

Also:

The release of iOS 4.3 beta for developers has revealed updates to gesture-based navigation, AirPlay and Personal Hot Spot in the next edition of iPad and iPhone.

No, it applies to current iPads and iPhones.

However, not all changes are UI-related; it is reported that Apple is due to add an ARM Cortex A8 processor to its iPhone 5.

What has the iOS beta got to do with the next iPhone's CPU?

I know that chronically uninformed articles are par for the course on Slashdot, but not understanding the difference between software and hardware is a new one.

Re:Confused

[TheRaven64]

A4/A5 and A8/A9 are two seperate nomenclatures.

Even more confusingly, the Cortex A5 is ARM's ultra-cheap line of processors aimed at not-so-smary phones. I'm looking forward to Apple hyping the A5 and Nokia putting a sticker on their bottom-of-the-range phones saying 'A5 inside' or similar.

Re:Confused

[Dr Max]

'A4' is Apple's name for a chip based on ARMs Cortex A8 architecture. The next chip will probably be called 'A5', and will probably be based on Cortex A9. A4/A5 and A8/A9 are two seperate nomenclatures.

Then why does the /. story and the stupid article that it links to says apple is adding an "arm cortex a8"?

Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

Here's to hoping that Apple puts a more powerful processor in the second iPad than they do in the 5th iPhone. I realize they likely had the same processor in the iPad/iPhone 4 just to keep things simple, but it seemed really strange to me that a device with a bigger screen (and marginally larger resolution) had the same CPU in it as the tiny version.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[sglewis100]

Here's to hoping that Apple puts a more powerful processor in the second iPad than they do in the 5th iPhone. I realize they likely had the same processor in the iPad/iPhone 4 just to keep things simple, but it seemed really strange to me that a device with a bigger screen (and marginally larger resolution) had the same CPU in it as the tiny version.

Bigger AND marginally larger resolution? So if the iPad had a 1024x768 screen but a 12" screen, that would necessitate a more powerful CPU than a 10" version at 1024x768?

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

No. I was referring to the fact that, generally, you expect a 10" device to have more computing power than a 3.5" device.

Did I really have to explain that?

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Anonymous Coward]

You might expect that - I certainly don't. The devices with the most computing power tend to have no screens at all.

Do automatically think a laptop with a smaller screen has less computing power than one with a larger screen? Really? I've got a 20 inch monitor at home does that make my several year old iMac totally bad ass from a computing power stand point?

Re:Here's to hoping...

[LWATCDR]

but does it need it?
I mean really what does the ipad need more CPU power for than the iPhone? The resolution is the same so the graphics performance requirements are the same. I guess if you want to put more demanding apps on the ipad than the iphone maybe it would useful but on the whole I do not see a big drive need for more CPU power in the iPad over the iPhone.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

You might expect that - I certainly don't. The devices with the most computing power tend to have no screens at all.

OK, but we're talking about all-inclusive devices that function completely on their own...not desktop parts.

Do automatically think a laptop with a smaller screen has less computing power than one with a larger screen? Really?

If the difference is as drastic as 6+ inches (the difference between an iPad and iPhone...6.2, if you want to be exact), then yes: I generally expect a 16 inch laptop to have more power than a 10 inch netbook.

I've got a 20 inch monitor at home does that make my several year old iMac totally bad ass from a computing power stand point?

I'm not talking about desktop components, I'm talking about portable components. Apples to oranges, bud.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

but does it need it?

No, but again...compare a 10" netbook to a 16" laptop (the difference in screen size between an iPad and an iPhone is slightly over 6 inches.) Would you expect a 16" laptop to have the same power as a 10" netbook?

I mean really what does the ipad need more CPU power for than the iPhone? The resolution is the same so the graphics performance requirements are the same. I guess if you want to put more demanding apps on the ipad than the iphone maybe it would useful but on the whole I do not see a big drive need for more CPU power in the iPad over the iPhone.

So...the people calling the iPad just a big iPod Touch are right, then?

Re:Here's to hoping...

[sglewis100]

No. I was referring to the fact that, generally, you expect a 10" device to have more computing power than a 3.5" device.

Did I really have to explain that?

I guess you don't HAVE to explain anything, but based on all the replies I just read besides mine, yeah, maybe you could have.

Besides, I think you're forgetting that when the iPad came out, it DID have a faster processor than the iPhone. That the iPhone 4 came out later, is a separate issue. If the iPad 2 still has the SAME processor, then you might have an argument.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

Besides, I think you're forgetting that when the iPad came out, it DID have a faster processor than the iPhone.

True, but then you're comparing a brand-new product to what was at the time almost a year old....

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Anonymous Coward]

The IBM pSeries 795 at my work has no screen except for a little slide out physical monitor to show the boot digits. Does that mean it is far slower than an iPad?

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

Seriously? Are you just trolling, or are you really this ignorant?

I'm comparing two products from the same company that run the same operating system and are, for all intents and purposes, a part of the same product line. I'm NOT saying this comparison extends to all aspects of the computing world, nor did I imply it.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Anonymous Coward]

They've always been right, and screen size has absolutely no value.

That's why I'm reading this thread on the 4" screen connected to my desktop.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[LWATCDR]

Yes it is a big IPod Touch.

No I do not think that it is wise to equate physical size with power. Resolution means a lot more. I have seen lots of notebooks with big screens with low resolution. They will require less GPU/CPU performance than a smaller high resolution screen will.
Think of it this way. Does your desktop require more performance to drive a video game on a 22" 1080p display or a 60" 1080p display.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[sglewis100]

Besides, I think you're forgetting that when the iPad came out, it DID have a faster processor than the iPhone.

True, but then you're comparing a brand-new product to what was at the time almost a year old....

Yes, that's true. I don't get your point, but it is true, that when the iPad came out it was newer then the (then top of the line) iPhone 3GS, and if you were to compare them, you'd find vastly improved hardware in the iPad.

I think it's pretty clear I have no idea what your argument is anymore.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

I think it's pretty clear I have no idea what your argument is anymore.

The iPhone is a PHONE. The iPad is a TABLET. You expect a phone and a tablet to have the same computing power?

That's my point.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

No I do not think that it is wise to equate physical size with power.

As I explained in another post, the iPhone is a phone. The iPad is a tablet. Would you expect a phone to have the same power as a tablet?

Re:Here's to hoping...

[sglewis100]

I think it's pretty clear I have no idea what your argument is anymore.

The iPhone is a PHONE. The iPad is a TABLET. You expect a phone and a tablet to have the same computing power?

That's my point.

That's the point you had hoped to make. I'm not really sure you've done that. You see, when the iPad came out it had MORE power than the iPhone. Then, a new iPhone came out, and took advantage of the power saving innovations of the iPad's chip, and caught up... no, leapfrogged it by doubling the memory and upping the overall screen resolution as well.

Now, the iPad's refresh is approaching, and all the speculation is pointing to a multi-core CPU, more memory, an SD slot, and perhaps a doubling of the overall resolution.

You expect a phone to not advance technologically because a tablet exists? Perhaps you're aware that over the last almost one year period Apple's been developing the next iPad, which will surely feature improved specs versus the old one. At the same time, they continue to work on newer iPhones, no doubt guaranteeing the same thing on that side.

PS: Are there performance problems? My iPad works pretty darn quick. I'm glad they took some extra time before adding a second core and a stronger graphics processor, since I've enjoyed the 10 hour battery life. No doubt they've improved the battery and power conservation technology as well over the last year, and will be able to continue to offer that.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. A bigger screen requires better antialias to compensate for shittier resolution and this in turn requires more processing power.

Next?

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Anonymous Coward]

Except in your description the iPad was a "device with a bigger screen" and the iPhone was a "tiny version" of it.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

Jesus fucking christ.

You see, when the iPad came out it had MORE power than the iPhone.

It had more power than a one-year old device, which is not what my original post is about.

Then, a new iPhone came out

Yeah, a couple of months later...meaning the internal architecture had long since been decided upon before the iPad was released.

You expect a phone to not advance technologically because a tablet exists? Perhaps you're aware that over the last almost one year period Apple's been developing the next iPad, which will surely feature improved specs versus the old one. At the same time, they continue to work on newer iPhones, no doubt guaranteeing the same thing on that side.

No, I expect a tablet to be more powerful than a phone released within the same time frame and as part of the same product line. I'm not talking about cross-generation comparisons, I'm talking about same-generation comparisons. This is the key thing that people seem to be missing.

I'm not comparing cross-generation products, I'm not comparing products from different companies, I'm not comparing mobile vs desktop components. I'm comparing a PHONE and a TABLET, and the fact that the tablet has no performance advantage over the same-generation phone from the same company in the same product line. What was so hard for people to understand about this?

I'm sorry if I seem rude, I just didn't think I'd have to spell things out like this on a tech-oriented website. That's a bit ridiculous.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[jedidiah]

I think it's pretty clear I have no idea what your argument is anymore.

The iPhone is a PHONE. The iPad is a TABLET. You expect a phone and a tablet to have the same computing power?

That's my point.

Why not? We have this thing in electronics call minaturization. Stuff gets smaller. So the difference in volume between a phone and a "tablet" might not make any difference to the relevant components. Since a phone is the "device of convenience" it's far more likely to be actually used. So more power in the phone will be generally more useful.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[sglewis100]

I'm comparing a PHONE and a TABLET, and the fact that the tablet has no performance advantage over the same-generation phone from the same company in the same product line. What was so hard for people to understand about this?

I'm sorry if I seem rude, I just didn't think I'd have to spell things out like this on a tech-oriented website. That's a bit ridiculous.

The Samsung Galaxy S (phone), released early last year has a 1GHz A8 based processor with 384mb RAM, and PowerVR SGX540 GPU.

The Samsung Galaxy Tab (tablet) is radically more advanced, in that rather than a 1GHz Cortex A8 with PowerVR SGX540 and 384mb of RAM, it adds... 512mb of RAM.

Perhaps your expectations are off. Seems to be the smartphone and tablet markets are using the latest possible technology that compromises between power and battery life, and are both about equally cutting edge in terms of CPU, RAM, and GPU, which tablets carrying larger screen sizes and longer battery life.

Another big clue: iPad, iPhone run the same OS. Galaxy S and Galaxy Tab run the same OS.

This doesn't equate to there being no advantage to one versus the other. It just won't be in clock speed. Yet there are scads of people (even members on tech-oriented websites) who find value in having BOTH.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

Perhaps your expectations are off.

This seems to be the most likely explanation.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously? Are you just trolling, or are you really this ignorant?

I'm comparing two products from the same company that run the same operating system and are, for all intents and purposes, a part of the same product line. I'm NOT saying this comparison extends to all aspects of the computing world, nor did I imply it.

What they are trying to say is that the size of the screen is merely the size of the screen. It doesn't take any more processing power to use a 3.5 inch screen or a 10" screen if they are the same resolution because the processor is only rendering the pixels. If both displays are the same resolution then the processor is rendering the same amount of pixels and the screen size would not matter.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Pojut]

GRAUGH.

My point was a larger display (especially a 6.2" larger display) means two things:

It's used for different, generally more intensive purposes

and

It's a larger form factor.

More intensive purposes + larger form factor (i.e. more physical space for components) SHOULD = more powerful hardware.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Dr Max]

When the ipad came out there were phones with the same power. The iphone 4 is underclocked to 800 mhz so the bigger ipad is still more powerful, even if its just due to apples descion to chose resolution over power. Granted i would expect atleast twice the power from a tablet compared to a phone, but i'm sure that wouldn't make as much money.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Anonymous Coward]

Twice the power, half the weight and double the battery life. Why not! I think your Expectations are a bit absurd.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[Dr Max]

I never said anything about weight or even battery life. Either you can't read or you lack the appropriate intelligence to be having this conversation. I just want more power in something that is twice as big. If it’s twice as big you would expect it to be more powerful, twice as heavy, and have two times the size of the battery. Is that really too hard for you people to understand.

Re:Here's to hoping...

[LWATCDR]

Yes why not?
1. The screens are the same resolution so they require the same processing power.
2. A phone may actually need a little bit more because it needs to support voice commands like voice dialing. In this case the difference in requirements isn't enough to worry about.
3. Processing power really isn't a limiting factor in most devices today including PCs. Lots of people are happy using i3s and Atoms instead of i7s.
4. The most popular tablet on the market has the exact same processing power as one of the most advanced phones on the market.

So from an engineering point of view and from the actual market the answer is yes tablets and smartphones have about the same CPU requirements so I would expect them to use the same cpus.

At this point you are just fighting reality. The iPad does use the same CPU as the iPhone and it is very popular and most of it's users aver very happy.

BUY BUY BUY!

[Culture20]

Good news again! I've totally forgotten that Steve Jobs is leaving Apple. BUY BUY BUY!

Apple Daily

[Anonymous Coward]

is not Hong Kong's equivalent of the Guardian. It is not a tech paper. IMHO, it's not even a very good newspaper. Anyone who is of the region knows that when they pick it up at the newstand. How did it make it here?

YAY! A new feature!

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick! Everyone! Spend another $399 for a new iPhone!

no it's like a wraith they can suck it real fast

[Joe The Dragon]

no it's like a wraith they can suck it real fast

Altivec?

[Bing Tsher E]

Will it feature buzzwords similar to Altivec? Clearly it is beyond RISC.

Yes but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Will it Blend?

Re:You guys should wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

By that time, Android v17.0 should also be out, possibly also running graphically smooth instead of jerky, laggy and stuttering.

Flaunt?

[gstoddart]

Seriously, "flaunt"?

So, does "having" this processor mean it is going to be "flaunted". "Flaunt" has a kind of negative connotation of waving something around to be sure everybody can see it.

Maybe words like "have", "sport", "use", "be built with", or "ship with" might be more applicable.

TFA doesn't have the word "flaunt" in it. Maybe a little less editorializing in the headlines would be good here. In this case, it's just plain not applicable -- no more than my desktop machine is "flaunting" it's quad-core Intel CPU.

The RDF is strong with this one...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

You really have to hand it to Apple: Very few other companies garner headlines for what amounts to "Pre-release software build indicates that version N+1 of product X will incorporate version N+1 of the assorted off-the-shelf hardware that went into version N".

Seriously. There is a reasonably limited set of companies with performance-oriented ARM SoC designs. There is a similarly fairly limited set of GPU options for power constrained scenarios. Shockingly enough, Apple(just like everybody else) is pretty much going to combine the most recent one of each that they can shoehorn into their design and production process and go from there.

In other news, the next Mac Pro will probably have a newly released Xeon in it...

Re:The RDF is strong with this one...

[UnknowingFool]

You really have to hand it to Apple: Very few other companies garner headlines for what amounts to "Pre-release software build indicates that version N+1 of product X will incorporate version N+1 of the assorted off-the-shelf hardware that went into version N".

Except that Apple has nothing to do with the articles. Their typical response to questions about their future products has always been: "We do not comment about future products." These articles comes from every "expert" on the web making speculation on what Apple will do next in order to get more clicks.

Re:The RDF is strong with this one...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

That is why Apple is impressive: anybody can(and many do) kick out press releases about whatever humdrum marchitecture or rebranding initiative they are vomiting on the public today; but Apple has an RDF so strong that there is an entire industry of "analyst" hacks who do that for them, entirely voluntarily...

Re:The RDF is strong with this one...

[UnknowingFool]

I do not think you know what RDF is. RDF is not web analysts speculating on Apple's next product. That is a byproduct of Apple's very guarded disclosures about their upcoming products. Apple is not alone in this regard. When Alan Greenspan was chairman of the Federal Reserve, financial analysts hinged on his every word and nuance because he rarely telegraphed his moves concerning the Fed. When he said some markets might show "irrational exuberance", markets around the world slumped based on his use of this phrase in a very long and dry speech.

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[Low Ranked Craig]

This is correct. Apple's new processor will be named A5 and is a multi-code Cortex A9 processer. It will reportedly have dual-core SGX543 graphics, up from the A4's single SGX535 GPU, which means that in theory you could do 1080p on the device no problems at all. They are also replacing the Infineon chipset with a Qualcomm chipset that does both CDMA/GSM/UMTS.

Old cores

[Anonymous Coward]

While the rest of us are working to bring out Cortex-A15's next year, Apple is still using a Cortex-A8. Luckily Apple's customers don't really care about technology buzzwords.

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[Tumbleweed]

Qualcomm recently demoed an upcoming SoC based on a dual-core Cortex-A9 that was putting out 1080p 3D video. I think they're planning on 1.2GHz cores, which can vary the clockrate, voltage, or just turn off a core entirely, as needed. Combine that with a smaller process, and that is likely to be VERY power efficient. EVO 2, please *grasping hands*. 2H2011 is going to be a very fun time for smartphone and tablet enthusiasts. I'm already really tired of the whole tablet craze, though. For more info on the upcoming Qualcomm SoC, check out a recently article over on AnandTech (and dig his funky footwear :).

Not to 50!

[Ambitwistor]

I've just sucked one year of your life away. I might one day go as high as five, but I really don't know what that would do to you. So, let's just start with what we have. What did this do to you? Tell me. And remember, this is for posterity so be honest. How do you feel?

Re:Not to 50!

[filthpickle]

Funny. I would mod you if I had the points.

Instead, all I have is an amusing story. Went out with a girl a few times...we are hanging out at her place watching TV. Flipping thru the channels I stumble across TPB.

I say "oh wow...a classic"
she says "what movie is this?"
"you really don't know?"
"Lord of the Rings?...no....Conan the Barbarian?"

This was one of many nails in the coffin....but it was the final one. I would be astounded that someone my age didn't know what movie that was, but wouldn't decide not to hang out with them anymore over it. But it was amusing.

Re:Not to 50!

[Gilmoure]

Dare I ask what her bookcase looked like?

bbbbbbut

[bhcompy]

bbbbbbbut fragmentation!!!

Uh, no, no it's not.

[seebs]

Unless the package says "Now with A8 Processor!" or something similar, it's not flaunting the A8. Given Apple's general refusal to put any kind of hardware specs they can avoid on packaging for these devices, it seems very, very, unlikely that they will "flaunt" anything so meaningless to the average reader.

Re:You guys should wait...

[PopeRatzo]

By that time, Android v17.0 should also be out, possibly also running graphically smooth instead of jerky, laggy and stuttering.

You sure told that guy..

I admire the way you sensed a threat to Apple's reputation and sprang into action. Showed them that criticism of Apple will be met with swift retaliation. Let them know that Apple Nation is NOT to be trifled with.

Well done. The folks at Apple can sleep well tonight knowing that you are awake.

Fragmentation, ho!

[whoop]

I like how Apple has decided to yank the fragmentation argument right out from under all the iFanboys by not having 4.3 for early iphones and ipods. Now what do you guys have to bash over every Android story on here?

Re:Fragmentation, ho!

[Duradin]

Apple: one maker, a handful of models, little to no revision with a model line, one vendor.
Android: many makers, many models, revisions within model lines, multiple vendors.

I think iFanboys can still point out the plank in the Droidbois' eye despite the new mote in theirs.

(btw 4.3 wasn't the first version to not make it onto the early models)

Re:Fragmentation, ho!

[codepunk]

Slow ass jvm vs blazing native code execution.

Re:Fragmentation, ho!

[mswhippingboy]

Sorry. Old argument. Next.

with these new tools, applications targeted at Gingerbread or later can be implemented entirely in C++; you can now build an entire Android application without writing a single line of Java.

http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/01/gingerbread-ndk-awesomeness.html

Re:Fragmentation, ho!

[whoop]

Apple: No source code available.
Android: Source code available.

Sure, it may require bugs or something to get root for some phones, but the options are there to take the new sources from Google, mix in the kernel pieces vendors are required to GPL, and come up with something usable. My Sprint Hero has a Gingerbread ROM out now, while HTC decided to stop making updates at 2.1 (about six months after release in the US). I have found this ability to be Android's number one benefit. Support long after the hardware/carrier give up.

What options does an owner of an old i-Device have (besides install Android on it)? Buy a new device to get new software features or apps that don't support the old version?

Re:Fragmentation, ho!

[Anonymous Coward]

... Um....

JIT... never mind the fact that there are some Android apps that are written for native execution as well (probably more to come with Gingerbread increasing support for that)...

Re:Fragmentation, ho!

[myoparo]

Apple: No source code available. Android: Source code available.

Sure, it may require bugs or something to get root for some phones, but the options are there to take the new sources from Google, mix in the kernel pieces vendors are required to GPL, and come up with something usable. My Sprint Hero has a Gingerbread ROM out now, while HTC decided to stop making updates at 2.1 (about six months after release in the US). I have found this ability to be Android's number one benefit. Support long after the hardware/carrier give up.

What options does an owner of an old i-Device have (besides install Android on it)? Buy a new device to get new software features or apps that don't support the old version?

I am still using the iPhone 2G and the first software update I didn't receive was iOS 4.0, released with the iPhone 4 in 2010. That's a full 3 years of receiving OS updates! From version 1.0 (or whatever it was) until 3.1.3.

Anyways, all the apps that I've been using still work without issues even with the latest updates that are "OS 4.x tested"'. Even Angry Birds, a game I've heard some people complaining about performance-wise lately, plays smoothly on the latest version. The only thing I notice is certain apps lack certain features that are enabled on 4.x versions of the OS. For example, Google's mobile app won't let me use Goggles and Skype won't let me do video chat. But seriously, I am impressed with how much use I've gotten from this phone and don't feel like my device has been completely forgotten left in the dust. I expected things to break after a while but they haven't yet

Re:no it's like a wraith they can suck it real fas

[Anonymous Coward]

no it's like a wraith they can suck it real fast

Your mom is a wraith.

"Flaunt"

[wamatt]

Yeah I'd totally hit some of that hot piece of ass Apple is flaunting in Main road.

Oh wait I got confused. They are utilising an upgraded processor in their upcoming iPhone refresh.

inaccurate info

[Anonymous Coward]

This is old news, and inaccurate as well. The most reliable info currently suggests the next processor in Apple's iDevices will be call the "Apple A5" which will sport a dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 based CPU as well as a dual-core SGX543 GPU and 1GB RAM all in a single package (similar to Apple's "A4" chip). All this "A8" talk is nonsense.

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[teh31337one]

PowerVR 435* /. needs an edit feature.

Abuse of terminology

[Daniel Phillips]

I don't know why Apple does this. Just to confuse the market and make it seem like Apple has some special sauce whereas the reality is that Apple uses the same ARM designs as everybody else, running at the same silicons and Apples "customizations" are really minor hacks to the peripheral support. To me, this comes across as dishonest, and I wonder why they do it especially considering many people will perceive the next iphone as underpowered because of what seems to be an ARM chip from the previous generation.

Apple's "A4" is really an ARM A8 and it would seem that Apple's "A8" is really an ARM A9. Same processor as everybody else for the next phone generation. And there is nothing special or unique to Apple about the PowerVR core Apple will use either.

Re:Abuse of terminology

[UnknowingFool]

Um, you do realize the entire article is a rumor speculating on products that Apple might launch sometime in the future and how Apple will name said products. Apple may call it the A8 or they may call it the A5. Heck it might even be the A4++Ox. We don't know until Apple makes some sort of announcement.

Re:Abuse of terminology

[kiwirob]

Apple has spent close to $500 million buying P.A. Semi and Intrinsity. Both companies have a wealth of experience in custom silicon design. It is very likely that the A4 chip is a knock up of off the shelf parts. The next generation (A5 chip) will probably have some major modifications and energy saving enhancements for which PA Semi and Intrinsity are renowned.

It has been Steve Jobs stated claim that he wanted to create devices with custom components with technology that could not simply be copied or purchased off the shelf by Apple's competitors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsity

Re:Abuse of terminology

[AHuxley]

Apple is just returning to its roots with the web 2.0 generation falling for a "Motorola and hypercard colour/Netwon" in their hands.
Its not about the chip really, its about control of the OS, energy use and upgrade cycle. Apple can plot and predict the supply over years and under clock/lock out the hardware to ensure you will 'need' the next hardware device. Why sell one device that will last when they can ensure you feel the need to buy two in the same time period.

Re:Abuse of terminology

[Daniel Phillips]

The next generation (A5 chip) will probably have some major modifications and energy saving enhancements for which PA Semi and Intrinsity are renowned.

Jobs was unable to explain how his A4 is significantly different from a stock Arm A8 and micrographs support the position that it is not. Only a small leap of logic is required to conclude that the next generation will also be differentiated more by its PR spin than by its transistor arrangement.

Re:Abuse of terminology

[hazydave]

One reason Apple does customization is the obvious one -- they save money. In particular, they have RAM on the same "A4" module (it's a "package on package" module).

This means they're getting all their RAM included, so no worries about supply, much less board space, no DDR layout issues, etc. Also saves a little board space. And since Samsung makes the module (the same Cortex A8 design, as well as a higher spec PowerVR, is found in the Galaxy phones and pads), there's little change of any DRAM supply issues, Samsung being a giant in DRAM.

Of course, Apple has to be a little nervous about Samsung, now that they're also in full competition. As the chip provider, they'll know precisely what's going in to Apple's next product and, as with the Galaxy series, ensure they outperform Apple. So I kind of believe that Apple may be looking at alternate vendors. They have had their own IC design team for awhile, and last year they bought Intrinsity, Inc., the company that worked with Samsung on tweaking the A8 design up to 1GHz.

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[Anonymous Coward]

..which is why the next Apple TV is likely to incorporate this and be able to push 1080p video.

I'm waiting until then before buying one.

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[Low Ranked Craig]

I don't like the whole getting media from iTunes. I decided to get a MacMini for this purpose. Works really good.

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[wesleyjconnor]

I don't like the whole getting media from iTunes. I decided to get a MacMini for this purpose. Works really good.

Works very well.

Great...

[Anonymous Coward]

NOW can we have Flash?

Netcraft confirms it: Steve Jobs is dying.

[Anonymous Coward]

He has taken a leave of absence because of a fatal illness. His supply of Egoism, which keeps him alive, is running out. Doctors had considered giving him a shot of Humility, but it was determined this would be too much a shock to the system. Sycophants have been placed on a round the clock deathwatch for the Apple leader.

Re:Netcraft confirms it: Steve Jobs is dying.

[dickdono]

Wow... how incredibly not funny.

Re:Netcraft confirms it: Steve Jobs is dying.

[Anonymous Coward]

i thought it was fairly humorous. sorry about your holy man's illness.

Re:You guys should wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would have agreed with you 3-4 years ago when I had a Windows Mobile phone. I've had an iPhone 3GS for a year now and I hate to sound cliche but it just works. Android phones are just about there as well (I'm not an Android hater, but everytime I pick one up and use it it just doesn't feel nearly as polished as iOS.)

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[Anonymous Coward]

It really whips the llama's ass?

"Flaunt"?

[hardboiled.tequila]

"Flaunt"? Will it come with a perspex case, so when you turn it over ... BAM, you get an eyeful of A8 CPU?

I guess if you've got it...

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[adolf]

Bleeeaaaaahhhh!

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[Low Ranked Craig]

Whatever. It fucking works. I wasn't an English major - I studied real subjects...

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[wesleyjconnor]

me neither but my dad was an english teacher
i was just teasing

Re:A4 has an A8 processor. Next SoC will be A9 bas

[Gilmoure]

My mom was an English teacher and my dad a Math teacher.

I went to school for fine art so I didnt' have to use either. Figured that would show them.

  Turns out I was good at fixing computers so I now have a real job. D'oh!

Bye bye battery

[michaelra]

So I guess we can even say more goodbye to our battery life